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<ndnihil> I wonder if they'd be interested in injecting some cash/manufacturing/technical assistance into neo900
<ndnihil> though I think I might be forced to play with a cat s60 until this one comes out
<ndnihil> I love my standlone FLIR, having one on the phone would rock
<DocScrutinizer05> cat s60 looks cool, yes
<DocScrutinizer05> and actually I pondered similar things about Nokia
<DocScrutinizer05> about the FLIR in that s60 i'm not entirely convinced about the quality
<ndnihil> the lepton is actually supposed to be pretty decent
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<DocScrutinizer05> but yeah, definitely a cool thing. I already have plans for my FLIR Neo900 addon
<ndnihil> I've got a modded e4, which basically removes the firmware cripple on resolution (and adds a shitload of new features)
<ndnihil> turns a $1k FLIR into a $3k FLIR
<DocScrutinizer05> wow
<DocScrutinizer05> thanks a lot
<ndnihil> though I seem to recall reading something about the newer units being patched against the modification
<DocScrutinizer05> it has such note in first post, yes
<DocScrutinizer05> well, 1.22 whatever that is nowadays
<ndnihil> ah, downgradable, so that's good
<ndnihil> but still some issues
<ndnihil> glad I got mine when I did
<ndnihil> but yeah, the lepton in the s60 is supposed to be better than this sensor
<DocScrutinizer05> LOL @ x-ray
<ndnihil> which is pretty decent for the price
<ndnihil> x-ray?
<ndnihil> I mean, you do see -some- detail in the right circumstances, that you wouldn't otherwise in standard human vision wavelengths
<DocScrutinizer05> the video in that link you gave
<ndnihil> but you'd stll be better off perving through a high quality camera with the IR filter pulled, and used in sunlight
<ndnihil> ah, I haven't read through that thread in years
<DocScrutinizer05> 1:00
<ndnihil> hah
<ndnihil> dude has fun toys
<ndnihil> that ellsworth chick has/had a SEM in her garage at some point
<ndnihil> that would be a lot of fun too
<ndnihil> but I do wish she'd focus on getting me my castAR
<amatus> i know a guy with a SEM
<ndnihil> I scan the academic/scientific auction sites every so often for them
<ndnihil> gah, 2300x
<ndnihil> I want
<ndnihil> my optical setup can only feed 800x into my D90
<ndnihil> or was it 400x
<ndnihil> father in law wanted me to have a go at recovering his s3
<ndnihil> a year after he got into a pool with it in his pocket
<ndnihil> that was just the cmos cam for it, didn't bother with the nikon
<ndnihil> that was after a very gentle brushing with a soft bristled toothbrush
<ndnihil> to get the corrosion off
<ndnihil> knocked at least half those components off
<ndnihil> I'm guessing the more corroded pads are what caused the final failure
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that's what you get from water and PCB under voltage
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<ceene> ahycka has done a few boards pretty dense
<ceene> but we've never calculated how much area is populated with components
<DocScrutinizer05> good, we will need that for the final design, for proto_v2 the UPPER board can be of arbitrary size, to simplify layout
<DocScrutinizer05> also proto_v2 has no SoC etc at all, we connect the protoboard to a BB-xM for that
<DocScrutinizer05> so the layout should be relatively relaxed for proto_v2
<ceene> great
<DocScrutinizer05> the goal for proto_v2 is to electrically/logically verify all the new stuff we got
<ceene> miniaturization can come after that
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly
<ceene> how many layers are expected for proto_v2 and final?
<DocScrutinizer05> proto_v2 a 4-layer would be great
<DocScrutinizer05> for final we expect to need at least 4 layers for LOWER and 8 layers for UPPER
<ceene> 4 layers is a moderately simple design
<DocScrutinizer05> TI claims you could do the OMAP BGA breakout with 6 layers, but... meh
<ceene> i know altium does some magic with bga footprints
<DocScrutinizer05> that's highly appreciated
<ceene> but maybe that requires a more expensive manufacturing technology, class 8 vs class 7
<DocScrutinizer05> that's exactly the point: for final we need to check what our PCB house can do
<DocScrutinizer05> and for how much ;-)
<ceene> where are you manufacturing?
<DocScrutinizer05> tbh I have no clue where Nikolaus got the PCB from
<ceene> i can provide prices for some boards we've done, just have to look at old receipts
<DocScrutinizer05> those are prolly for a bazillion of boards
<ceene> oh, no
<ceene> we do very small batches
<DocScrutinizer05> we only need 10 to start with, then later on 500 or 1000
<ceene> less than ten each time
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh
<DocScrutinizer05> ok
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<ceene> biggest drawback of our manufacturer is starting price
<ceene> a new order is at least ~1000 euros
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, 1mm pitch
<ceene> but they do a pretty exhaustive verification of the design
<DocScrutinizer05> we got 0.4mm iirc
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, those costs are expected
<ceene> well. altium doesn't care, it's just a matter of defining minimum line width and other constraints, such as via size, etc
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly, and to get to know what is the min line width the PCB manuf can handle safely
<ceene> that's right
<DocScrutinizer05> particularly in-pad vias, capped
<DocScrutinizer05> buried vias, etc
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess a in-pad via design is way more reliable than interleaved offset vias in a FPBGA
<ceene> this is our manufacturer, i think their design rules are somewhere on the site
<DocScrutinizer05> great
<DocScrutinizer05> i'll ask Nikolaus about the same
<ceene> the one that populates the components is another company
<ceene> for bga we've been told no vias under pads
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, we have GC for that
<DocScrutinizer05> o.O
<DocScrutinizer05> only capped vias, yes
<DocScrutinizer05> open vias, even plugged vias are an absolute nogo
<ceene> yep
<DocScrutinizer05> \o/
<ceene> boards themselves are quite cheap in the end
<ceene> first batch though is expensive
<ceene> i'll try and find some receipts tomorrow for different circuits
<DocScrutinizer05> thanks
<DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if we get away with CLASS6 for final
<DocScrutinizer05> don't see stacked microvias
<DocScrutinizer05> well, they are a mess anyway, aiui
<DocScrutinizer05> also don't see capped vias but I'm sure they can do this
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<ceene> yes, no problem
<DocScrutinizer05> well, actually I think it's 'plated vias'
<ceene> i think they can do almost anything
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<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the min track width and min via diameter and ratio are looking good, the rest is basically derived values
<DocScrutinizer05> ratio up to 13 is extremely good aiui
<ceene> well, my n900 is crying out for power, so i should go to sleep and recharche myself too
<ceene> recharge
<ceene> the other thing sounds too french
<ceene> recharchè
<ceene> i'm sure it exists
<DocScrutinizer05> I should finally change that crying dieing HDD
<ceene> i had one hdd that crashed miserably
<ceene> put them out
<ceene> two weeks later it started working again flawlessly
<DocScrutinizer05> wow
<ceene> never failed again... i won't ever understando how or why
<DocScrutinizer05> mine has 24 bad sectors meanwhile
<ceene> that's not too bad
<DocScrutinizer05> it's not, if those bad sectors where always there
<ceene> unless 24 more follow those, and over and over
<DocScrutinizer05> it started with 12, then 18 then 24
<DocScrutinizer05> iirc
<DocScrutinizer05> during 2 days
<ceene> that's only an arithmetic progression
<ceene> it can go like that for a year
<DocScrutinizer05> sure
<DocScrutinizer05> I nevertheless will swap it for a RAID1(?) of two decens enterprise grade server disks
<DocScrutinizer05> alas I already bought them, learned about HGST only later
<ceene> you may be interested in that
<ceene> just read it today
<ceene> oh, that's it
<ceene> well, this thing is gonna shut off, so night night!
<DocScrutinizer05> n8 ceene
<DocScrutinizer05> well, I hope the seagate will behave. If not, I got a RAID and a hardware shop nearby
<DocScrutinizer05> ...a RAID, and a...
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