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<el_guapo>
Hi, I read the website and the forums once in a while, and I'm looking for more info about a potential release date, and thus about when I'd be able to complete my payment. Or any other kind of info, really :)
<el_guapo>
I mean ther is this on the Pyra comparison chart ([14:19:59] <DocScrutinizer05> well, Q3 is optimistic, 2016 is honest), which I don't exactly understand. Does it mean "end of 2016" as a most likely release date?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
* Wizzup
is looking forward to the end of 2016
<el_guapo>
Thank you.
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, I'm afk for today
<el_guapo>
No problem, I got my answer.
<DocScrutinizer05>
please be aware that nobody else ever "made the mistake" to disclose internal schedules and plans regarding release date, you alwaysonly hear "it's ready when it's ready" - and for a reason
<DocScrutinizer05>
this is true even for Pyra
<el_guapo>
I totally understand it's not a deadline, nor a firm release date. I suppose there are enough surprises on the way to keep it flexible.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
negotiating about joined modem sourcing with Pyra
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, prolly 'negotiate' is the wrong word, rather evaluating opportunities
<Wizzup>
That sounds clever
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually it always been the plan
<DocScrutinizer05>
sort of got forgotten about during the daily hassle
<DocScrutinizer05>
the modem sourcing situation isn't particularly critical, we can always get "sample" amounts for a slightly higher price per unit
<Wizzup>
lower prices are always nicer, if it doesn't take a huge effort :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
for Gemalto all that Pyra or Neo900 does is just "samples" actually
<DocScrutinizer05>
they usually deal with order volumes that have a few zeroes more at the end of the figure
<DocScrutinizer05>
two to three at least
<DocScrutinizer05>
but even companies that finally order a 500k units will start with samples in the range of dozens to hundreds
<Wizzup>
ack
<DocScrutinizer05>
so, no really big news when me and Michi are chatting about how to make both projects benefit a few bucks from joining forces, but anyway I felt like sharing it
<DocScrutinizer05>
it been way too quiet in here lately ;-)
<Wizzup>
:)
* jonwil
wishes he could afford a Neo900 :(
<jonwil>
At least my N900 is still going strong.
<Wizzup>
:)
<Wizzup>
mine as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
jonwil: no worries about your N900, you clearly qualify for full developer support, so if your device ever fails, there are spares
<jonwil>
My N900 has had things happen to it that would have ruined most things made by crApple
<jonwil>
About the only reason I would stop using my N900 as my main phone is if my carrier does something that means I am unable to use it anymore
<DocScrutinizer05>
wouldn't that just mean a change of carrier? ;-)
<jonwil>
Chances are, anything that causes my N900 to stop working with my current carrier is likely to make it not work anywhere
<jonwil>
My current carrier has 2G on 900/1800 and 3G on 900/1800 with some limited 850MHz 3G as well (but no indications they are going to stop supporting 900MHz or 2100MHz 3G anytime soon)
<jonwil>
That is one of the 3 mobile phone networks in Australia
<jonwil>
Specifically Vodafone Australia
<jonwil>
Telstra (the biggest player) uses 900/1800 for 2G and 850/2100 for 3G
<jonwil>
and the 3rd player (Optus) uses 900/1800 for 2G and 900/2100 for 3G
<Wizzup>
I hope people will stop adding new mobile networks after 4G.
<jonwil>
they are already working on 5G standards
<Wizzup>
It is so senseless to keep building newer gen versions when the **the current version good enough**
<DocScrutinizer05>
LTE once meant Long Term Evolution
<jonwil>
The real problem with mobile phone standards is that they are far more complex than they need to be for what they are trying to do.
<DocScrutinizer05>
so supposedly no 5G after that
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<jonwil>
Mostly because everyone who makes handsets and network gear and stuff basically said "we wont make gear for the new standard unless it somehow incorporates technology xyz" (where "xyz" is something that particular entity has a nice juicy patent on)
<jonwil>
So really cellular standards are as complex as they are so that everyone can extract their patent royalties
<DocScrutinizer05>
sort of true, yes
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<Venemo_j>
hey guys
<Venemo_j>
I'm glad to see that the paypal thing has been resolved :)
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<Arch-TK>
There was a different problem that came up
<Arch-TK>
board layout
<Arch-TK>
but I'm not sure where that went
<DocScrutinizer05>
that went to "Ask GC to do it" now
<DocScrutinizer05>
after all they gonna do quite a lot for us already, so this feels natural
<DocScrutinizer05>
and in the end they can't blame us when their own layout causes trouble during assembly ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess they know best what their PCB manufacturing and assembly line can do / cope with
<DocScrutinizer05>
and they have experience with all the components, from GTA04 and Pandora and Pyra
<DocScrutinizer05>
so I think this is a reasonable approach to ask them to do the layout
<DocScrutinizer05>
the question is if they can export eagle project files, I doubt they use eagle internally, those are professionals there which don't use "hobbyist tools"
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually we will benefit from Pyra getting manufactured first, since they can "practice" to get decent yield with the slightly tricky huge modem module
<DocScrutinizer05>
if Pyra actually gets manufactured there, which I suspect but have no info about
<DocScrutinizer05>
if you're really interested in this, ask those guys! they are a nice bunch
<DocScrutinizer05>
and they are keen to install those small networks
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess it can be done for 20k, easily, modulo the license which depends on where you are and what's the regulation situation at that place
<burntcheesetacos>
why do you keep saying
<burntcheesetacos>
modulo
<burntcheesetacos>
what does that mean
<DocScrutinizer05>
NB sysmocom won't worry about license sitaution, I bet they will also sell you planning and hw if you deliberately state you wanna pirate
<DocScrutinizer05>
I meant "except the license"
<burntcheesetacos>
perfect
<burntcheesetacos>
thanks dude
<DocScrutinizer05>
yw :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
may I ask where this little town is?
<burntcheesetacos>
new mexico
<DocScrutinizer05>
aah, k
<DocScrutinizer05>
prolly not that hard there
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess licenses must be cheap there
<burntcheesetacos>
I emailed them
<DocScrutinizer05>
Ask Harald Welte (or any other of the guys) of Sysmocom
<burntcheesetacos>
see what sucks is that probably verizon or some other asshole
<burntcheesetacos>
now covers phone calls
<burntcheesetacos>
so ninjatel setup loses appeal
<burntcheesetacos>
what would be more appealing is internet
<burntcheesetacos>
or data
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
talk to sysmocom, those are 'our' experts
<infobot>
i guess joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org
<burntcheesetacos>
whoa you are openmoko
<burntcheesetacos>
i was a fan when i was itnerentsted in symbian python shit
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, I *am* not openmoko
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<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<burntcheesetacos>
correct, you are not openmoko, we are all openmokos
<DocScrutinizer05>
also I'm still alive ;-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
while openmoko Inc actually seems dead
<burntcheesetacos>
NSA will see about that
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<burntcheesetacos>
national snk vs capcom association
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<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway I think Harald told me he already installed a few network things in the americas
<burntcheesetacos>
thats cool
<burntcheesetacos>
I hope they dont cost an assload
<burntcheesetacos>
or if I can get used cheapo equipment that would be nice
<DocScrutinizer05>
talk to them
<DocScrutinizer05>
they want to create cool stuff, not to rip you off
<burntcheesetacos>
see I was thinking I can do the custom rom like the ninjatellers
<burntcheesetacos>
where I can have farm stuff
<burntcheesetacos>
like an app that has a directory for all the local businesess
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess they must have a standard form already for inquiries like "we need a little GSM network for 100 people"
<burntcheesetacos>
like firework and propane
<burntcheesetacos>
firewood*
<Arch-TK>
the pyra certainly looks interesting
<burntcheesetacos>
so the hardware can be turned on and used, and then gov detects some GSM network and then jails you?
<burntcheesetacos>
to avoid you get a license?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<burntcheesetacos>
cool
<DocScrutinizer05>
you don't need "custom ROM", the network is a normal GSM network
<DocScrutinizer05>
use any phone you want
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess licences depend on the area you cover
<DocScrutinizer05>
cost of licenses that is
<burntcheesetacos>
i meant custom rom for appeal for the phone
<DocScrutinizer05>
possibly there's even a solution for you where you don't need any license, when the area is really small
<burntcheesetacos>
or messageboard for the town
<pigeons>
yeah look at some of the recent talks at HOPE and CCC. Some small operators in underserved communities share their experiences
<burntcheesetacos>
sweet ill check it out
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know in the USA FCC rules are a bit different than the strict rules we got here in Europe
<burntcheesetacos>
ah gotcha
<burntcheesetacos>
im sure local gov will help
<burntcheesetacos>
and not be a dickhead about getting it cleared
<burntcheesetacos>
the main thing is that I need to know if its 10k or less from osmo
<DocScrutinizer05>
and there's already a patchwork of thousands of small areas with their own local GSM networks
<burntcheesetacos>
thats a figure I can save up for and pull off myself with friends
<burntcheesetacos>
instead of waiting on gov fucks to fund
<Arch-TK>
So I haven't asked this for a long while now... But how many preorders is the Neo900 on now?
<burntcheesetacos>
I hope a shitload
<DocScrutinizer05>
there been no new preorders since start of year basically
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe 2 or 3
<DocScrutinizer05>
203 Neo900 and 103 NeoN boards
<Oksana>
Not much... Do we have a plot somewhere, of preorders vs time?..
<DocScrutinizer05>
we once had, but not anymore I think.
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are w few stats in the shop, but nothing decent
<DocScrutinizer05>
the shop has a table date vs purchased items, but that's pretty useless since every 1EUR topup counts as one item
<DocScrutinizer05>
so there are days with 600 items sold