<phoe_>
I tried lucerne, it's pretty okay as well.
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<Xach>
gavino hasn't been here in a while
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<drmeister>
Is there a way to control what C compiler asdf uses?
<drmeister>
I believe that ASDF is using the system clang compiler and I need it to use a different clang compiler
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<drmeister>
ASDF does compile C source - correct? I see the pzmq library generates a grovel__grovel.c file - that is compiled somehow to a .o file.
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<jfe>
drmeister: unfortunately i'm an amateur on asdf. but i had a question for you. the other day i asked why compilers aren't more frequently written in high-level languages like lisp. if i understand correctly, you wrote the clasp compiler in c++. why did you choose c++ instead of lisp?
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<drmeister>
jfe: I did not write the clasp compiler in C++. Clasp has one interpreter written in C++ and two compilers written in Common Lisp.
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<jfe>
drmeister: ah, i see. i listened to your presentation of clasp at google and must have misheard. thanks.
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<Fade>
jfe: symbolics wrote a very advanced C compiler in common lisp.
<drmeister>
Clasp interoperates with C++ (links with C++ libraries and C++ calls interleave with CL calls).
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<Xach>
drmeister: asdf does not compile c source.
<Xach>
drmeister: cffi includes a part for asdf that compiles c source
<Xach>
drmeister: config-wise, i think you would start with cffi's grovel mechanism
<drmeister>
Thank you - I'm digging into it.
<drmeister>
Something associated with groveling C code is generating malformed llvm-IR
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<Xach>
boo
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<didi>
When should I define a PACKAGE-USER package for my package PACKAGE?
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<Xach>
didi: i do it when i think someone might want to in-package to use no prefixes, but don't want to mess with implementation stuff. but it's also trivial to make a new package that uses PACKAGE
<Xach>
package-user to me is just (:use cl package)
<didi>
Xach: Cool, thank you.
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<Ober>
how do you get the line number of the offending error on sbcl when compiling and you hit the restarts/debugger?
<didi>
Ober: If on SLIME, I type ?v.
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<Xach>
I use slime and M-n and M-p
<Ober>
i've gone down the backtrace list hitting v and it'as all sbcl
<Ober>
thanks
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<didi>
Oh, tip: it got nicer once I added (declaim (optimize (speed 0) debug safety)) to my ~/.sbclrc
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<Ober>
cool
<Xach>
sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy is a way to do that in a more durable way too
<didi>
Xach: Thank you. I didn't know about `sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy'.
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<Ober>
just ql and sbcl. none of my code.
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<phoe>
there, enough on/off bouncing.
<Xach>
Ober: what is the error?
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<Ober>
one sec. trying to recreate
<Ober>
Cannot CHANGE-CLASS objects into CLASS metaobjects.
<Ober>
[Condition of type SB-PCL::METAOBJECT-INITIALIZATION-VIOLATION]
<Ober>
See also:
<Ober>
The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, CLASS [:initialization]
<Ober>
<Ober>
rototilling a bunch of code back into a single file, but can't find the line where it's bombing on
<Ober>
brb
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<phoe>
Ober: give us the code snippet that is causing this, if you can extract it
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<loke>
phoe: Seems to be as though he might be trying to redeclare a class from a standard class into a metaclass.
<loke>
That can be problematic.
<Ober>
if I could extract it, I would fix it :P
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<Ober>
ok will dig for it. thanks
<Ober>
xb
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<Ober>
allegro built it fine, lw gave this error which seems more useful. Layout for class #<MANARDB:MM-METACLASS FILES 41B0C43E23> has changed from ((VALUE 0 8 MMAP-POINTER T) (IDX 8 8 MMAP-POINTER T))
<Ober>
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<drmeister>
Ironclad generates a different MD5 digest than C++ code that I have and MD5 hash generators on the web - what am I doing wrong?
<drmeister>
The C++ code (My md5) and the MD5 calculator generate the same result. Ironclad - something different.
<drmeister>
Different is not good.
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<Ober>
lw gui shows the exact place of error. thanks for the help
<drmeister>
froggey: You mean the trigonometric function SIN?
<froggey>
yes
<drmeister>
Holy crap
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<didi>
TIL MD5 is a chaotic function ;-)
<drmeister>
How accurate does it need to be?
<phoe>
drmeister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5 has the precomputed values, you could perhaps check if your sine gives you same hex numbers
<froggey>
not sure, I ended up replacing it with a correctly precomputed table
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* phoe
brb
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<drmeister>
Ok, that appears to be the problem - thank you.
<drmeister>
Wow - not in a million years.
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<drmeister>
It's weird though - when calculate the integer value - it's fine. It's just when I convert it to a hex string that it zeros the last digits.
<drmeister>
ediff says they match, visual inspection says they match.
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<froggey>
that's probably not it then
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<xificurC>
when running a script with #!/usr/bin/sbcl --script is there a way to drop into a repl?
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<pjb>
xificurC: don't use --script.
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<xificurC>
pjb: what do you mean
<pjb>
Let's try it.
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<pjb>
xificurC: well, it kind of works, but without --script, it doesn't run the script.
<pjb>
xificurC: so you have two choices: either call the repl toplevel at the end of the script (and use --script), or write a script to run sbcl without --script, but loading and running your lisp script.
<xificurC>
pjb: how can I call the repl toplevel programmatically?
<pjb>
it might be a good idea to wrap it in a handler-case if you want the script to keep control, and to redefine quit to exit sb-impl::toplevel-repl instead of killing sbcl if you want to take over after the repl.
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<easye>
Lisp 101 question: how do I distinguish between a reference to proper list and a dotted list? The form (not (consp (cdr reference))) seems ridiculously non-terse, so I fear I am missing something basic.
<pjb>
xificurC: it may also be a good idea to call (sb-impl::toplevel-init) first.
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<pjb>
easye: by walking the list.
<pjb>
You may use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:proper-list-p alexandria.0.dev:proper-list-p #+ccl ccl::proper-list-p
<xificurC>
pjb thanks
<easye>
pjb: ok, I guess that makes sense. Just thought there should be something in ANSI to do this. I was a bit surprised that LISTP acts as a complete synonym for CONSP.
<pjb>
Efficiency.
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<pjb>
Remember, lisp was implemented in 1960 on computers that were barely able to perform 1 million operations a second.
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<tfb>
easye: distinguishing a proper list from something that isn't is non-trivial in general: is #1=(a b #1#) proper (no, but knowing it's not requires an occurs check)
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<easye>
tfb: Yeah. I'm just having one of those moments of realizing my internal model of CONS structures needs some refreshing.
<easye>
Funny how I can actually get something done without remembering such basics.
<tfb>
I spend my working life looking at a million lines of fortran and wondering much the same
<easye>
FORTRAN was my first language: studying a Decwriter printout of Colossal Cave and some of the Hollerith cards. Real fun for a pre-teen.
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<schweers>
I have code which passes double-floats and '(unsigned-byte 64) values to helper functions and recieves them back. After reading about block compilation in the CMUCL manual I wanted to try it, but SBCL (which I use) removed support. So I put my helper functions into a LABELS form and put both DECLARE forms and defuns (which have preceding toplevel DECLAIM forms) into the LABELS form. I still get efficiency notes like th
<schweers>
unsigned word to integer coercion (cost 20) to "<return value>"
<schweers>
Am I doing something wrong?
<pjb>
What does block compilation do?
<schweers>
one can specify a block of code which may consist of multiple functions, and specify which of them are callable from outside of the block. this means that the other functions can be implemented with local calls
<schweers>
at least that is how I understood the manual
<pjb>
Efficiency notes are just that. Nothing fundamentally wrong or erroneous. This only means that sbcl thinks that it could generate more efficient code if you did something else. But do YOU want to do something else?
<schweers>
I want the efficient code :)
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<pjb>
schweers: well, by default all the functions in a single compilation unit can be called between them with local calls.
<schweers>
the CMUCL manual claims that block compilation can be used to pass non-descriptor values from and to funcions without boxing them
<pjb>
I think sbcl performs this optimization automatically.
<schweers>
hmm. now that you say that, it does seem reasonable.
<pjb>
Ask in #sbcl to be sure.
<schweers>
yet all calls to the helper functions in the labels form are known at compile time, so I’m confused about the notes
<schweers>
will do, thanks
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<pjb>
Now, you may want to add type declarations, and provide public API functions that will check-type the arguments to ensure the declarations are fullfilled.
<pjb>
If you have a lot of them, you can split them over several files, as long as you compile them in a with-compilation-unit. I don't know how to do that with asdf however.
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<schweers>
I put ftype declarations in place, both for the global and local functions.
<schweers>
is there something wrong with code of the following form: (labels ((helper (...) ...)) (defun foo (...) (helper ...)))
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<Shinmera>
schweers: Yes, why not just use a global function for the helper
<schweers>
I thought I had to put the code in /local/ functions in order to utilize non-discriptor representations
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<Shinmera>
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want to do-- why not put the lables inside the defun if you want to share locals?
<schweers>
because I have more than one defun
<Shinmera>
In that case I would advise a definition for the helper and requesting inlining.
<schweers>
I have several “global” functions which use the same set of helpers which are not needed outside of these defuns
<schweers>
does inlining work nicely with recursion?
<schweers>
nevermind
<schweers>
its tail recursive
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<schweers>
seems reasonable, would make the code much more pretty
<schweers>
I’ll try that
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<Shinmera>
If you have non-tail recursion you can do local inlining to avoid the function-to-be-inlined to inline itself infinitely.
<schweers>
with a local (declare (notinline foo))?
<Shinmera>
Yes.
<schweers>
thanks for the info
<Shinmera>
Or alternatively not declaiming it inline and using declare inline where you want it inlined. I think in that case it won't recursively inline.
<Shinmera>
Though I'm not sure that case is entirely specified...?
<schweers>
or not inlining the recursive function itself but defining a wrapper function which can be declared inline?
<Shinmera>
Then what's the point of inlining at all?
<Younder>
schweers, notinline?
<Younder>
New one to me
<schweers>
ugh, you’re right that would not have solved my problem
<schweers>
nevermind, was a brainfart
<Younder>
As they say Lisp is not old it just smells fully ;)
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<pjb>
schweers: there's nothing wrong, but it should be equivalent to (defun … (labels ((do-not-name-it-helper-or-anything-like-that …)) …))
<pjb>
schweers: the only downside of having defun not as a toplevel form, is that the compiler cannot make note that a function is defined, so it may issue undefined function warnings.
<schweers>
okay, that makes sense
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<pjb>
schweers: the only case where you would need to put defun in a non-toplevel labels, would be if your local functions would have to be used by several defun. Then you have to ask yourself seriously why not making them global functions.
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<Younder>
pjb, I have found myself using flet in macros
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<pjb>
Younder: Of course.
<schweers>
pjb: that is exactly the situation I had. I’ve now declared the helper functions to inlined. I’m not entirely happy with the notes yet, but I’ll do some more testing etc before I continue banging at it.
<schweers>
I’m off for lunch, thanks for the tips!
<pjb>
You know that optimizing type declarations and notes, will give you only 1 or 2% improvement.
<pjb>
If you want to optimize things, design a better algorithm and data structure!
<loke>
pjb: actually, not always. My implementation of the simplex noise algorithm ended up 10× or so faster by adding delcarations.
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<Younder>
pjb: the optimization structure for Lisp is hard to understand. Perhaps you could come up with some simple rules. Like don't cons up.
<loke>
pjb: Here's the code. You can remove the declarations to see the difference:
<Younder>
I seem to remember 40x penalty for using temporary list's in calculations. Estimates of cource
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<tfb>
I think the first-order story about declarations is: it matters for float-intensive code
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<Younder>
tfb, For float intensive, you need AFX or better still GPU. So tap into something like LAPACK
<tfb>
Younder: you don't (and you can trust me on this: I run float-intensive code on thousands of cores)
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<Younder>
Well I have two Titan blacks only. And 10 Pi2's is my cluster.
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<Younder>
So my experience may be limeted., But feel free to share experiences :)
<Younder>
Afterall it was all ever a makeshift approximation.
<Younder>
A test for MPI, CUDA and OpemML. And of late Open ACC.
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<Younder>
tfb: Are you telling me you are running computing intensive applications on a cluster entirely in Lisp?
<tfb>
Younder: No, sorry. All our HPC code is fortran. What I meant was that if you have float code which falls back to generic arithmetic that's often a factor of ~100, so if the system should be spending 1% of its time in float code, it's now spending half of it. So making sure float code doesn't fall back to generic arithmetic really matters if there is even a very small amount of it
<Younder>
Well I have tried a simulation of 65000 star galaxy similar to the Magellan cloud on my Titans
<Younder>
It's bit but has a self similar structure.
<Younder>
I studied physics in my time, and have a particular fondness for celestial mechanics.
<Younder>
The old Newtonian type
<Younder>
(The Mag doesn't seem to have any major Black holes)
<Younder>
That said It wasn't written in lisp, but on a CGI compiler in C.
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<Younder>
My PI2's were spendt for a simulation of telephone central system. MPI and C again.
<Younder>
Though I expect Lisp could have been used here.
<Younder>
Cool though this is I have moved mostly into embedded comping these days. Designing a drone which is totally anonymous.
<Younder>
6 cameras, a NVidea TX1 and more C. Though RUST is coming up as a solid alternative.
<Younder>
A circuit boar with a Xilix FPGA implementation of G5 with a Digital Devices MEMS antenna on a M2 port with PCIe that will fit on a credit card is the current challenge.
<Younder>
But feel free to ignore me as I make to many grammatical and syntactical mistakes, being dyslexic
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<Zhivago>
Ok.
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<Xach>
ASDF 3.3.1 reports fatal circular dependencies that ASDF 3.1.5 does not. I wonder if it's in error or something else.
<Xach>
One example is simple-date-postgres-glue and another is tinaa-and-cl-markdown.
<Xach>
hmm, the latter has asdf-system-connections, which is I think a pit of trouble these days.
<Xach>
hmm, both non-primary systems
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<Xach>
dim: are you in any position to investigate and perhaps propose changes to simple-date to make things work again?
<Xach>
dim: I think the whole glue thing might be a candidate for removal and simplification at the expense of a little more cross-dependency.
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<Shinmera>
Something about invoking QL or ASDF while it's trying to load another system is messing it up
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<Shinmera>
Haven't had time to investigate yet, but this was never a problem until the recent ASDF updates in SBCL.
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<Xach>
ugh
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<dim>
Xach: I could see about devoting some time to it... my gut feeling is that we have bugs in ASDF tho
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<dim>
also, who's maintaining postmodern these days?
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<dim>
looks like it would be Cyrus Harmon (slyrus on github)
<Xach>
dim: marijn merges PRs but there is no primary development
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<dim>
I'm not sure I've learnt enough CL to see about improving Postmodern yet... last I tried I sure wasn't there yet ;-)
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<Xach>
I think it's postmodern's system of conditionally loading something via asdf
<Xach>
And I think it could be made unconditional
<Xach>
ASDF problems make my skin crawl and this month is bad.
<dim>
do you have to upgrade asdf?
<Xach>
It is now part of sbcl 1.4.2.
<Xach>
I feel awful about giving neutral feedback about its impact. I didn't test properly or something.
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<dim>
well that happens
<dim>
the only way to never make a mistake is to never do anything, as my mother would say ;-)
<Zhivago>
Which would be a mistake, so you're screwed either way.
<dim>
also, well, ASDF is known to be buggy, where QL mostly just works
<Xach>
a function of its relative simplicity, i think.
<dim>
can SBCL release 1.4.3 with the previous ASDF and remove 1.4.2 from mirrors?
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<Xach>
perhaps the former but the latter seems outlandish to me
<Xach>
scymtym, any thoughts on the matter?
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<dim>
as a second step I would question the release process of asdf, really
<nickb>
Hi. I'm trying to install sqlite3 on a Windows system using quicklisp. I know nothing about lisp, just need to build an application using it. I get an error: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9d632dff0f9e26e84ba91458d3ff5eea (doesn't tell me much). Any advice?
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<tfb>
Younder: rust looks like an interesting thing. But fortran is so embedded for the stuff we do I am sure it will live for ever, unfortunately
<pjb>
nickb: you would have to learn how the sqlite3 library is named on MS-Windows, and to know where it's stored, to configure cffi to find it there.
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<hajovonta>
hi
<knobo>
When I do (select-dao 'some-postmodern-class) columns with null value is returned as :null. Can my slots be unbound in stead?
<knobo>
does postmodern have a feature like that?
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<phoe>
knobo: grepping the manual tells me not. You can try some manual processing of the returned daos if you really want it, as in, loop for all slot-values if :null then slot-makunbound.
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<phoe>
But this may have consequences I am not yet aware of.
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<nickb>
pjb: CFFI should be able to find my sqlite3 libs. The only lib (sqlite3.dll) is in PATH, shouldn't that be enough?
<Shinmera>
nickb: Does it have any dependencies that are unfulfilled?
<Shinmera>
Windows (unfortunately) just reports the library as missing if its dependencies can't be found, even if the library itself can be.
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<nickb>
I can't tell; the only error I get when trying to install "sqlite3" is that the name is not resolved
<nickb>
ah
<nickb>
so it requires Alexandria and Babel
<Shinmera>
No that's not what I meant
<Shinmera>
I meant the dependencies of the dll.
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<nickb>
yeah dll is fine
<nickb>
it only needs KERNEL32.dll and msvcrt.dll
<Shinmera>
Okey.
<nickb>
so.. How can I learn what is the library name for Windows?
<nickb>
> WARNING: the Windows port is fragile; Maybe thats it and I should give up :)
<Shinmera>
That message is not really any more applicable
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<nickb>
Ok when I get an error that the library is missing I have an option to enter alternative name instead. So I enter: ("sqlite3-lib") and get and error: Unable to load foreign library (SQLITE3-LIB-625). Am I doing this completely wrong?
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<pjb>
nickb: you may also directly load the library.
<pjb>
At least to test that the ffi part works.
<nickb>
How would I go about it? With ql:quickload?
<pjb>
You cumulate the difficulties: Using MS-Windows, Using sbcl (with his uninformative error messages)…
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<didi>
I am certain I asked this before, but I can't remember the answer, sorry: Why doesn't (let ((x 42)) (loop for x = x then (+ x 1))) work? i.e. SBCL complains that NIL isn't of type NUMBER. I suspect the second X from the LOOP form isn't bound to 42.
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<lieven>
the x of 'for x' already gets defined in the loop prologue and shadows the outer x of the let
<didi>
lieven: oic. I was expecting the same behavior of DO, I guess, as in the second X gets the value of the environment.
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<lieven>
yeah I think they could have gone that way. No idea why they didn't.
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<tfb>
didi: I suspect strongly that it's undefined which happens
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<tfb>
(both implementations I have easy access to 'work' with (let ((x 1)) (loop for x from x below ... do ...)
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<ebrasca>
Is hunchensocket alive?
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<jackdaniel>
If software starts to live, it's time to run
<lieven>
there's an exception in 6.1.1.4 made for loop-as-then that is not made for the others so testing with from x might not be relevant
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<ebrasca>
Is hunchensocket recomended for WebSockets and Hunchentoot?
<_death>
Ober: I use babel:string-to-octets/octets-to-string for that
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<Ober>
_death: yeah as i mentioned above, i'm using that. bombs on utf8 stuff though.
<beach>
Ober: But you never mentioned that your vector contains octets representing UTF-8-encoded characters.
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<_death>
Ober: why would it bomb?
<jdz>
pjb: for which non-unicode character code do you get NIL from CODE-CHAR?
<Ober>
because that is how it is written. Illegal :UTF-8 character starting at position 0. [Condition of type BABEL-ENCODINGS:INVALID-UTF8-CONTINUATION-BYTE]
<Ober>
<jdz>
I guess there are some such characters in clisp...
<_death>
Ober: utf-8 encoded "there" => #(116 104 101 114 101) so your input is weird
<pjb>
jdz: in an implementation working with US-ASCII, any code >127 could return NIL.
<_death>
Ober: are you using my leveldb bindings or other?
<Ober>
hey pjb, have not see you at the godemiche meetup lately. good to see you still are a member though.
<_death>
(leveldb:with-open-db (db "/tmp/foo") (leveldb:puts db "hi" "there") (leveldb:gets db "hi")) => "there"
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<Ober>
_death: yes, the same.
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<Ober>
will try with that.
<Ober>
thanks
<Ober>
ahh puts/gets vs put/get
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<Ober>
(leveldb::octets-to-string (leveldb:get mydb "hi")) was causing the utf8 error btw
<Ober>
thanks _death for the help, and the package
<_death>
Ober: put and get take octet vectors, not strings
<Ober>
gotcha. makes more sense.
<_death>
Ober: I think I wrote this while working on some bitcoin code some years ago.. the blockchain was several gigs so didn't work with strings
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<pjb>
Ober: now, look what you've done: you ask a meaningless question, I asked for clarification, you further added overly specific specifications, I provided a faithful implementation, and instead of starting to think, you started to insult.
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<ebrasca>
whoman , jdz: ok
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<Ober>
_death: how did you serialize arbitrary objects into vectors for storing in leveldb?
<pjb>
implementing arbitrary methods.
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<_death>
Ober: they weren't arbitrary objects.. I suppose if you want that you can use a serialization library like cl-store
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<Ober>
yeah with a stream backend of a with-open-vector sort of thing, is what I was thinking
<_death>
Ober: then you miss some leveldb functionality, however.. for example the fact that keys are ordered
<Ober>
right. just lookign at the right hand size, values for objects tm
<Ober>
atm
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<Ober>
just trying to pickle the list object into a vector for the value.
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<phoe>
Ober: (coerce list 'vector)
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<Ober>
yeah thanks.
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<scymtym>
Xach: are you asking specifically about going back to ASDF 3.1.5 for SBCL 1.4.3?
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<phoe>
why not 3.2.0.1? I found it to be stable enough
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<Fare>
is there anything wrong with ASDF 3.3.1 ?
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<Fare>
Xach: 3.3.1 tracks staging dependencies between systems. Its granularity is the file, not the individual top-level expression. Therefore if there are multiple stages in a sin
<Fare>
gle file, that is now considered an error.
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<dim>
why did it work before, and why does it not work now?
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<Fare>
using load-system within perform is a big no-no
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<Fare>
simple-date.asd has a completely bogus method at the end that is guaranteed to not do what the author intended and derail asdf
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<didi>
Converting (values) to nil as in (null (values)) => t is a defined behavior? I want to depend on it.
<Zhivago>
Yes.
<didi>
Eer, I don't want to depend on it anymore, but the question still stands. ;-)
<didi>
Zhivago: Thank you.
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<Fare>
looks like a poor bad reinvention of asdf-system-connections, too
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<Posterdati>
hi
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<Posterdati>
please how can I determine the integer-length of an (unsigned-byte *) array? Thanks
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<pjb>
Posterdati: that doesn't make sense. integer-length works on integers, not on arrays.
<pjb>
You could compute: (reduce '+ (make-array (reduce '* (array-dimensions array) :displaced-to array) :key 'integer-length))
<Posterdati>
yes I need element size
<pjb>
but I fail to fathom what use you could have of it.
<pjb>
(and (subtypep '(unsigned-byte *) '(integer 0)) (subtypep '(integer 0) '(unsigned-byte *))) #| --> t ; t |#
<pjb>
and obviously, the maximum integer-length for (integer 0) is ∞
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<Posterdati>
I need to convert an intger word to an array (unsigned-byte x)
<Posterdati>
for example
<pjb>
And why do you want to specify the element types?
<pjb>
Who cares about types?
<Posterdati>
#x55aa -> #(aa 55)
<Posterdati>
or
<Posterdati>
#55aa -> #(#x55 #xaa)
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<pjb>
So what's the problem?
<Xach>
Fare: what is the fix?
<Posterdati>
and I need the array to word function too
<aeth>
Posterdati: If you mean you want to cut up an integer into smaller integers, ldb is one way.
<pjb>
Posterdati: It is better to use a parameter word-size (or base).
<Fare>
Xach: thanks
<Posterdati>
pjb: yes, but on sbcl it worked, not on ecl wich answer like (unsigned ext:byte8)
<pjb>
See what I mean?
<Fare>
what postmodern was guaranteed not to work, even with the old ASDF.
<pjb>
Posterdati: You're deep in implementation specific shit here.
<Posterdati>
pjb: yes, nevertheless I need a way to do that
<pjb>
(cond ((equalp type '(unsigned ext:byte8)) 8) …)
<pjb>
(cond #+ecl ((equalp type '(unsigned ext:byte8)) 8) #+ …)
<pjb>
Have fun.
<aeth>
Posterdati: The only way to make it not implementation dependent would be to (1) only support some implementations (and avoid clisp, you're doing something numerical) and (2) wrap the parts that don't work with implementation-specific things
<Posterdati>
pjb: I was thinking to apply integer-length to the maximum of array
<Fare>
it would only appear to work when you specifically loaded cl-postgres or simple-date as the toplevel request, and not otherwise.
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<Fare>
for any other user, it would have been a NOP
<Bike>
Posterdati: why do you want this?
<Xach>
Now it is a fatal error that breaks everything that uses postmodern.
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<Xach>
Whether or not you rely on simple-date working properly with it.
<pjb>
Posterdati: Right. (reduce 'max (decompose-base 257 256) :key 'integer-length) #| --> 1 |# so you will try to decompose into base 1?
<Fare>
Repairing the .asd files.
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<pjb>
Posterdati: 101 can be a representation in any base! Perhaps it represents (compose-base '(1 0 1) 1000000) #| --> 1000000000001 |# !
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<pjb>
Posterdati: remember, there's always *print-base* and *read-base*!
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<pjb>
Posterdati: now, you could use a representation where the first slot of the vector would contain the maximum digit.
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<pjb>
Posterdati: but obviously, it's not that good a representation because it's O(n) to wrap and unwrap. It would be better to use a structure with two fields.
<pjb>
Posterdati: but again, this is still silly, because in general you work only with one base, so you just keep it in a global variable.
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<Fare>
I don't know when you found these issues, but the asdf-devel mailing-list is the right place to report them.
<Posterdati>
Bike: I need these routine for a spi driver I wrote
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<Fare>
OK, I fixed the build of chanl, too, but not its race conditions (that at least its test suite now find)
<pjb>
Posterdati: Again, the base is not intrisic. This is an external element, determined by convention or explicitely specified in a protocol. So you need to use an external value bound to a separate parameter.
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<Bike>
Posterdati: and you are incapable of specifying a bit width beforehand?
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<Posterdati>
pjb: I did so
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<Fare>
Xach: I've sent a mail to asdf-devel looking for candidate maintainers to do more of that work together. If some failures are more urgent than others to address, please warn the mailing-list so we handle them first.
<pjb>
Posterdati: ok.
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<pjb>
Posterdati: often, it's even hardwired (since usually you want efficiency and it's specified on paper, so it doesn't changes willy-nilly).
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<pjb>
Posterdati: ie. instead of writing and using the functions I sprung'ed, you could write a macro that would generate efficient base conversion functions for hardwired word sizes.
<Fare>
jackdaniel, how is :feature broken on asdf 3.1.5? Works fine for me.
<Posterdati>
pjb: :)
<jackdaniel>
read follow up message
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<Posterdati>
pjb: hardware devices and common lisp did come on the opposite side :)
<Fare>
Ah, OK. For the record, I don't remember :feature or :if-feature being broken since I made them work in 2.27. They are rather simple features (unlike one of the two ASDF 1 era homonymous "feature" features, which was removed in 2.27)
<jackdaniel>
it was a problem with map-dependencies "missing" deps for some operations
<jackdaniel>
but it got fixed after 3.2.0 (maybe unintentionally) so I didn't bother to report
<Fare>
Xach: the fishpack issues smells like a bug in the sbcl register allocator, indeed.
<jackdaniel>
for normal load it worked fine, but when used with bundling op (either with delivery-op and make-build) it missed dependencies if if-feature was present (disregarding the content)
<Fare>
jackdaniel, oh. I remember touching that part of the code recently indeed, fixing issues along the way, but the details are out of cache.
<Fare>
jackdaniel, was it an upgrade bug?
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<jackdaniel>
no, I can dig up the report in ECL issues if you are really interested in it
<Fare>
I have a patch in a branch slated for 3.3.2 that fixes bugs that happen when you upgrade from e.g. ASDF 3.1.7
<Fare>
jackdaniel, not really interested if it has disappeared.
* jackdaniel
gets back to CLX test suite
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<whoman>
hey Shinmera i missed your stream. is it still available online somewhere ?
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<Posterdati>
Shinmera: ps4?
<Shinmera>
Posterdati: what?
<Posterdati>
Shinmera: do you play with the ps4?
<Shinmera>
No
<whoman>
Shinmera, ty!
<whoman>
ah can't find the UI stuff
<Shinmera>
The episodes are all labelled Treehouse and have a date.
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<fe[nl]ix>
Xach: is there a way to download and unpack all projects into a directory ?
<fe[nl]ix>
I want to check if there are users of Bordeaux-threads recursive locks
<Shinmera>
There are.
<jmercouris>
You want to grep all common lisp on quicklisp?
<jmercouris>
Why don't you just search github
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<Shinmera>
github search is awful
<Bike>
have you ever tried github search
<Bike>
it blows
<jmercouris>
Yes
<Shinmera>
And does not encompass all of Quicklisp
<jmercouris>
You can use a diffrent type of API search I think to look for regex/lines of code IIRC
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<Shinmera>
fe[nl]ix: You can download all projects to Quicklisp's internal dist folder using: (mapc #'ql-dist:ensure-installed (ql-dist:provided-systems (ql-dist:find-dist "quicklisp")))
<fe[nl]ix>
is it possible to specify a directory other than the default one ? I don't want to taint my installed systems
<jmercouris>
I think it only allows searching one repository/organization at a time but there should be a way to do it for all repositories of a specific language or something
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<Shinmera>
fe[nl]ix: could set up a quick separate Quicklisp directory.
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<Shinmera>
I can't see any obvious way otherwise to get it to a specific directory. ql-dist:install has no other arguments.
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<jmercouris>
You could move your current directory to a temp directory
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<jmercouris>
What do you think a good way of implementing hooks in common lisp is? (something akin to emacs hooks)
<jmercouris>
from the emacs documentation, it seems that hook is just a list of functions that get called at a given time
<jmercouris>
so let's say I want to have a hook after action XY
<jmercouris>
should I have a list called something like (defparameter XY-Hooks ()) and add functions to that list to invoke upon event XY?
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<Shinmera>
That's a bad idea because then you can't redefine
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<jasom>
(quick description of how it works: I create a promise for each chunk of work and push the promise onto a queue; I then have a separate task poping from the queue, forcing the promise, and performing the side-effect.
<jmercouris>
Shinmera: What do you mean by "can't redfine"?
<Shinmera>
jmercouris: If you store function objects in the list, then when you want to redefine your hook function, it won't be able to find the old one to remove it before adding the new one.
<Shinmera>
So you'd just keep on adding functions.
<basket>
You could just add their names to the list instead
<jasom>
Shinmera: use the function names solves that problems
<Shinmera>
Usually in Lisp you want to have some kind of name->definition mapping to avoid this.
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<Shinmera>
jasom: That fills the global function namespace with garbage
<jasom>
(push 'foo *xy-hooks*)
<Shinmera>
The hooks are usually not useful as standalone functions
<jasom>
Shinmera: I assumed the functions already have names?
<jmercouris>
The functions are named functions
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<jasom>
Shinmera: whether or not they are useufl as standalone functions is orthogonal to whether or not they should be named
<basket>
How does it preclude the use of packages, Shinmera?
<jmercouris>
But I don't see what the issue with (push '(lambda ()) *xy-hooks*) is
<Shinmera>
jasom: I'm not arguing against names, I'm arguing for a separate namespace.
<jasom>
Shinmera: i.e. my routing library gives each route a function name, which aids in debugging for backtraces
<jmercouris>
I guess one may not be able to remove an item from the hook without a reference to it, but that should be the problem of the user that adds that hook no?
<basket>
jmercouris: Because then it makes it difficult to change that function later. You have to find it somehow, remove it from the list, and add a new one
<jmercouris>
basket: Ok yes, in the scenario of (push 'named-func *xy-hooks*), one should be able to remove it though yes?
<jasom>
jmercouris: pushing an anonymous function makes it hard to redefine; pushing the name of a function makes it trivial.
<basket>
Yes jmercouris
<jasom>
and I disagree with Shinmera on the "polluting the function namespace issue" they are functions, they are named, ergo the function namespace is perfectly appropriate
<jmercouris>
Shinmera: When you say "redefine your hook function" do you mean, "redefine your function that is called by the hook XY"?
<Shinmera>
:shrug: I just like separate concepts separate in their namespace too.
<Colleen>
‾\(ツ)/‾
<jmercouris>
lol nice bot
<Shinmera>
jmercouris: Well, when you redefine the hook, to be precise. Defining a hook usually involves creating a new function object to call.
<jasom>
jmercouris: any time you push an actual function object, e.g. (push (lambda () ...) ...) or (push #'foo () ...) it becomes difficult to locate one of those hooks later should you want to remove it or change its behavior
<jasom>
jmercouris: if you push the name of the function, you get redefinition for free, and locating it obviously becomes easier too.
<fe[nl]ix>
Shinmera: thanks, that works
<jmercouris>
jasom: Okay, I get the disctinction now! thanks!
<Fare>
Shinmera, calling asdf:load-system or ql:quickload from within a perform method is a big no-no
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<Shinmera>
Apparently so, I have my reasons for doing it though.
<jmercouris>
Shinmera: I was saying "define a hook" as in the creation of *xy-hook-list* and then (loop for function in *xy-hook-list* do (funcall function))
<Shinmera>
I'll elaborate in the issue ticket tomorrow.
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<jmercouris>
Shinmera: Adding a function to the hook would be just adding a hook
<jmercouris>
Maybe I'm using terminology wrong here, but I think we're on the same page
<Fare>
Shinmera, what are you trying to do???
<Shinmera>
Fare: I need to do some nasty stuff to get qt-libs to work the way it should. Anyway, as I said, I'll elaborate tomorrow. Too tired now.
<jmercouris>
Ah, good times with QT
<jmercouris>
I'm so glad I don't have to work with QT anymore
<Fare>
also, traverse-action in not a gf anymore
<Shinmera>
This has nothing to do with Qt
<Shinmera>
It's purely a lisp issue.
<jmercouris>
I don't really know anything about your issue, I'm just reminiscing on QT quality
<Fare>
is this related to there being no good way for cffi and asdf to properly declare dependencies on .so 's?
<jmercouris>
There was nothing wrong with the QT lisp system I was using, it was the QT code itself...
<Shinmera>
Fare: It's related to me needing to change how another system works, and then optionally needing to load other systems during the loading.
<Shinmera>
Anyway, tomorrow.
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<fe[nl]ix>
oh wow, there is so much duplicate code for locks and threading
<fe[nl]ix>
and even one project that copied recursive locks from BT because dependencies are scary :(
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<Shinmera>
fe[nl]ix: What were you intending on doing? Removing recursive locks?
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<jasom>
also recursive locks in BT are broken on sbcl
<jasom>
they only work if you use with-recursive-lock, not with the lock functions
<Shinmera>
I don't see how that's broken?
<Shinmera>
Oh wait
<Shinmera>
Ech, I shouldn't try to read things anymore at this hour, never mind me.
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<_death>
jasom: why not just pmapcar do dolist
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<fe[nl]ix>
Shinmera: I think it would be a good thing, but apparently lots of people use recursive locks
<fe[nl]ix>
Shinmera: and the only system that uses the broken acquire-recursive-lock is simple-tasks
<fe[nl]ix>
hint hint
<Shinmera>
Hooray
<fe[nl]ix>
if I could remove {acquire,release}-recursive-lock it would already be very good
<Shinmera>
That's what I get for not writing my own threads library :^)
<fe[nl]ix>
:)
<Shinmera>
I'll see if I can get rid of the acquire/release calls.