kokonaisluku has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.5.0/20171117140933]]
karswell has joined #lisp
vtomole has joined #lisp
red-dot has joined #lisp
vtomole has quit [Quit: Page closed]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
damke_ has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
eSVG has joined #lisp
Guest34322 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
rgrau has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kobain has joined #lisp
kobain has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
kobain has joined #lisp
kobain has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
kobain has joined #lisp
kobain has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
margeas has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Tobbi has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Tobbi has joined #lisp
Tobbi has quit [Client Quit]
igemnace has joined #lisp
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
zooey has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
d4ryus2 has joined #lisp
jameser has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
d4ryus1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
mson has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
moei has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<Josh_2>
Vector access time is O(1) right?
<Josh_2>
but list is O(n)? something like that
<Josh_2>
I don't know how to represent the access time of lists O:
eli has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
<Bike>
O(n), yes.
<Josh_2>
and Vectors are O(1)?
<Bike>
yes.
<Bike>
in a framework where memory caches don't exist, anyway.
<Josh_2>
Thanks :) Just double checking as I'm putting this into a presentation that's a large chunk of my grade
<Bike>
idealized vector access is an addition to get the memory address followed by an access of the memory address. list access is a memory access for each cons cell traversed, etc
<Josh_2>
Yeah
<Josh_2>
Thanks :D
<Josh_2>
What addition is made?
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<pierpa>
the base address of the vector + the index accessed
<Josh_2>
Thanks :D
bkst has joined #lisp
<dmiles>
something i dont get is on the page http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mexp_.htm .. #'MACROEXPAND uses "&optional env" ... but for a macro lambdalist, one uses "&environment env" like (defmacro expand-1 (form &environment env) ... ) ?
<dmiles>
the question is about if the " &environment env" ends up being optiuonal
<dmiles>
I mean in practice
<dmiles>
i mean treated exactly like an &optional
<Bike>
it's completely different
<Bike>
When you write a macro form, you can't provide an environment
<Bike>
the &environment in the lambda list indicates the compiler should pass the environment
devon has joined #lisp
<Bike>
if you have (defmacro expand-1 (form &environment env) ...), (expand-1 foo) is legal and (expand-1 foo bar) is not.
fikka has joined #lisp
<dmiles>
oh so actualy MACROEXPAND and MACROEXPAND-1 would not been able to be macros?
<Bike>
i don't understand the grammar of your question.
<dmiles>
macroexpand is a function... so i was thinking aobut if it was a macro
<dmiles>
(i know i switched topics sorta fast from my original question)
<Bike>
macroexpand having an &optional env is different from a macro having an &environment env. the former allows an environment to be explicitly provided by the programmer. the latter just means that the macroexpander wants to use the environment the macro form is in.
<dmiles>
how would #'macroexpand gain access to a a Env ?
<dmiles>
(if it was "unsupplied)
<Bike>
it doesn't. if you don't supply an environment it uses the global environment.
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<dmiles>
ok.. now it makes more sense
<dmiles>
.. so (defmarco expand-1 arg &optional (env env-supplied-p) &environment env) might have been used if expand-1 wanted to be like macroexpand-1 ?
<Bike>
your lambda list is kind of garbled.
<dmiles>
oops yes
<Bike>
but if i understand it correctly, no. macroexpand-1 doesn't know about the environment it's called in.
<Bike>
no function knows about the lexical environment it's called from.
<dmiles>
i think that actually does answer a question i was going to ask..
<dmiles>
but the (defmacro my-expand-1 (arg &optional penv &environment env) .. (let ((env-i-use (if penv penv env))) ... some code using env-i-use .. )
<dmiles>
oh actualy now i see how what you said sort of answers my question
<dmiles>
the 'env' in this case was not just the global env
<dmiles>
the 'env' in this case was not just the global env?
<Bike>
if you have an &environment parameter, within the body of the macroexpander it will be bound to the environment the macro form is in. Let me give you an example.
<Bike>
say we have (defmacro dumb () 4)
bkst has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<dmiles>
(ah, i had sorta assumed the &environment env was just so the body would have a convience var named 'env for the global env :P)
<Bike>
that would be pointless.
<dmiles>
(ok go on)
<Bike>
now say we have (defmacro pexpand (form &environment env) (print (macroexpand-1 form env)) nil)
<Bike>
so it always expands into nil, but prints something at macroexpansion time.
<Bike>
if you have (pexpand (dumb)) it prints 4.
<Bike>
But if you have (macrolet ((dumb () 5)) (pexpand (dumb))) it prints 5.
knobo3 has joined #lisp
<Bike>
In contrast, say you have (defmacro dumb-pexpand (form) (print (macroexpand-1 form)) nil)
<Bike>
then (dumb-pexpand (dumb)) => 4, but (macrolet ((dumb () 5)) (dumb-pexpand (dumb)) => 4. Because it doesn't use the local environment, it just uses the global one.
<dmiles>
ah, i see.. it really is about allowing macrolet to have a little highgene
<dmiles>
hygene*
<Bike>
i have no idea what you mean.
<dmiles>
well i was thinking macrolet is scoped in the body it appears
knobo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<dmiles>
but this way it allows it to be used outside and still not be in the global
<Bike>
macrolet establishes a lexical environment with a macro in it.
<Bike>
i don't understand what you're saying.
devon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<dmiles>
FLET and MACROLET are scoped in a lexical enviroment.. the way they get decared is locally.. but that would place a limit on where they can be used
<Bike>
a limit?
<Bike>
you can use flet or macrolet wherever.
fikka has joined #lisp
<Bike>
you could think of them as "placing limits" on the use of what they define.
<dmiles>
they will be limited to the local enviroment they get defined in
<Bike>
they define/bind things in a lexical scope.
<Bike>
The environment accessible with &environment contains information about these lexical scopes.
<dmiles>
why i call it a limit.. is if you use them within the scope you dont need to think about passing env arround
<Bike>
If macroexpand doesn't receive an environment parameter, it uses the global environment, which has no information about lexical bindings as produced by flet or macrolet.
<Bike>
As such, macroexpanders that need to expand other macros would behave badly if there was no &environment available.
<dmiles>
i might have to set up a testcase in the next couple houirs once i fix my current trouble
<dmiles>
what i was wondering is if other macroexpansions still use just the global enviroment even inside the lexical scope
<Bike>
Other macroexpansions?
<dmiles>
why i need to write it out into a body form :P
<Bike>
I don't understand.
<dmiles>
i9 am saying i doublt i can explain in english.. i'd have to write the code
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<Bike>
Is English not your first language? I have a hard time understanding what you try to convey.
<dmiles>
yes but i have a hard time using english
ikki has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
sourbloom has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<dmiles>
so in about an hour .. i'll try to have the question better layed out
<Bike>
Okay. I might be asleep at that time.
<dmiles>
(the question about if macrolet can define macros that get used inside the same lexical scope but not actualyl defined in the same scope))
<loke>
Perhaps he's asking about macros that expand into other macro calls?
<Bike>
beats me.
<dmiles>
yes that is what i am asking
<loke>
Like (defmacro foo (..) ...) (defmacro bar (...) `(foo ...))
<Bike>
Aren't you writing an interpreter or compiler of some kind, dmiles?
<loke>
dmiles: The answer is that the unexpanded macro is returned from the first macro call. Then the compiler looks at the result of that first macro, and repeats by expanding the second macro.
<loke>
In other words, the recursive macro call isn't expanded by the macro itself.
<dmiles>
Bike: yes.. so i am trying to confirm that wheter or not the macrolet should be invisible to other macros that get called by other macros
<Bike>
Your terminology is confused. Macros are not called.
<Bike>
But, if you're writing an evaluator it's simple enough to explain the rules.
<Bike>
You have (defun eval (form env) ...). The first thing that ... does is macroexpand: just (macroexpand form env). macroexpand repeatedly calls macroexpand-1, as you probably know.
<dmiles>
*nod*
<dmiles>
(go on)
<Bike>
macroexpand-1 is something like (defun macroexpand-1 (form &optional env) (if (consp form) (let ((mf (macro-function (first form) env))) (if mf (funcall *macroexpand-hook* mf form env) ...
<Bike>
In other words, it looks up the macro definition in the environment it's passed, and if it's there, calls macroexpand-hook. macroexpand-hook is basically funcall, so the macroexpander function is called with two arguments, the form to expand, and the environment.
<Bike>
If the definition of the macro had an &environment, that's the environment it gets. if not it's ignored.
<Bike>
Now, if the form passed to eval is a macrolet form, like say (macrolet ((foo ...)) ...body...), all it does is recursively evaluate body in a new environment that includes the definition of foo.
Guest70025 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Guest70025 has joined #lisp
<dmiles>
i would have assumed that macrolet created a "special macro" with the meaning as "special" in "special vars" that as they are being (i'll stick with special vars (forget macros for the moment) as theire bindings are availbel shadowed in the global enviironment)
<dmiles>
i was thinking that macrolet would shadow any of its uses at the same level of its env
<dmiles>
(meaning it would not be usefull tp ass env to subsequent calls.. as the shadow macro would be present)
<Bike>
I don't know what that means but it sounds complicated.
<dmiles>
i dont see this happen hardly wuith macrolet.. but i see it all the time with labels
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
ikki has joined #lisp
<dmiles>
that a defun is overridden in a lexical scope
<Bike>
You can shadow bindings, yes.
<dmiles>
i dont need to pass an environment argument to make things use the right shadow
<Bike>
The environment describes what's present. It includes shadowing.
<Bike>
My earlier pexpand example showed that the environment includes shadow bindings.
damke_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<dmiles>
ahah
fikka has joined #lisp
hexfive has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
serviteur has joined #lisp
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
terpri has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<basket>
Good morning, beach
demiurge has quit [Quit: edk]
zooey has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zooey has joined #lisp
shka has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
ikki has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
serviteur has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
Morning
<shka>
Josh_2: good morning
mparashar has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
This is not really lisp related although it is something I did in lisp :P anyways Quicksort has an average performance of O(n log n) and I have a real time of 15ms, how do I check if my sorting algorithm is hitting it's ideal time or not?
fikka has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
There is the point that it is doing more than just sorting so that's going to cause some issues
<Josh_2>
I have a graph that is pretty linear
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Zhivago>
Have it report the nunmber of interesting operations it did.
<beach>
Josh_2: That is going to be very hard for a single test case.
<Josh_2>
well I have 16 different tests
<Zhivago>
Then you'll be able to see the actual O for that particular input.
<beach>
Josh_2: With different sizes of the input?
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
No the sizes are the same in all of them
<beach>
Josh_2: Then you can't test it.
<beach>
Josh_2: O(n log n) means that it is less than or equal to k*n*log(n) for some k, but you don't know the k.
dddddd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach>
Josh_2: So no matter what your timing shows, you can always find a k that makes it true.
<Josh_2>
Ahh okay, well it is always sorting the same number of elements, but the variation in the elements change, causing quicksort to become faster than bucket sort
<Josh_2>
The larger the variation the slower bucket sort becomes
<beach>
Still, it is always going to be on the average O(n log n) for some k, no matter how many inputs you give it.
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
neoncontrails has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Josh_2>
Alrighty, I'll mention that the average is correct, but that the change in bucketsort is obvious
neoncontrails has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
I have to give a presentation..
<beach>
Mentioning that the average is correct is not going to give any information, because the average is always correct for any finite number of test cases.
<beach>
So you are going to look ignorant if you say that.
<beach>
It would be better to check something like how good the choice of pivot is.
<Josh_2>
Well the spec is asking me to compare the times I got with theoretical times..
<beach>
How close to the median element it is.
<beach>
OK, good luck with that then.
<beach>
Since theoretical times can be arbitrarily high.
<Josh_2>
Well
neoncontrails has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<Josh_2>
I already dicked my grade by doing sorting algorithms. My own fault for wasting a load of time because I didn't read the spec properly..
<Josh_2>
It's okay though, I was allowed to use CL <3
jstoddard has quit [Quit: Goodnight]
<beach>
Are you sorting a list or a vector?
<Josh_2>
vector
ym has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
d4ryus2 is now known as d4ryus
neoncontrails has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
knobo4 has joined #lisp
knobo3 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
mparashar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
adimanea has joined #lisp
eSVG has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
adimanea has quit [Client Quit]
Josh_2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
emacsoma` has joined #lisp
nowhereman has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
eSVG has joined #lisp
mercipher has joined #lisp
nicdev` has joined #lisp
nicdev has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dieggsy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
EvW has joined #lisp
galdor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
mparashar has joined #lisp
galdor has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
chenbin has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
zmt00 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
khisanth_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
hexfive has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
AntiSpamMeta has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
AntiSpamMeta has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
jameser has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
chenbin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
mparashar has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fikka has joined #lisp
khisanth_ has joined #lisp
SaganMan has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
moei has joined #lisp
Ziemas_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
Ziemas has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Karl_Dscc has joined #lisp
nowhereman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
knobo has joined #lisp
damke_ has joined #lisp
nowhereman has joined #lisp
knobo4 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
raphaelss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
oleo has quit [Quit: Leaving]
mishoo_ has joined #lisp
vlatkoB has joined #lisp
red-dot has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dec0n has joined #lisp
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sz0 has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
Karl_Dscc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pfdietz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
pfdietz has joined #lisp
damke_ has joined #lisp
Kevslinger has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
fikka has joined #lisp
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
mathrick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
bkst has joined #lisp
damke has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
BitPuffin|osx has joined #lisp
damke_ has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
karswell_ has joined #lisp
mathrick has joined #lisp
karswell has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
jibanes has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
hyero has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
hajovonta has joined #lisp
<hajovonta>
hi all!
Kaisyu has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
fikka has joined #lisp
<cess11_>
hajovonta: Hi!
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
raphaelss has joined #lisp
EvW has joined #lisp
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
basket has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
wigust has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has quit [Client Quit]
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Client Quit]
fikka has joined #lisp
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
scymtym has joined #lisp
varjag has joined #lisp
cyberlard has quit [Quit: Leaving]
mondec has joined #lisp
Guest34322 has joined #lisp
Cymew has joined #lisp
mercipher has left #lisp ["Leaving"]
flamebeard has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
josh5tone has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
zooey has joined #lisp
xrash has joined #lisp
josh5tone has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DeadTrickster_ has joined #lisp
DeadTrickster has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
damke has joined #lisp
_cosmonaut_ has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
damke_ has joined #lisp
sourbloom has joined #lisp
ntinos has joined #lisp
sourbloom has quit [Client Quit]
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
damke_ has joined #lisp
murii has joined #lisp
damke has joined #lisp
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Kaisyu has joined #lisp
nirved has joined #lisp
ntinos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<jackdaniel>
your snippet doesn't clarify anything to me. to answer the question; optima may be used to do pattern matching from the most specific, if you arrange clauses in correct order (same as with cond really)
<knobo>
I see.
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
osune has joined #lisp
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
neoncontrails has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
neoncontrails has joined #lisp
red-dot has joined #lisp
wxie has joined #lisp
damke has joined #lisp
raynold has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
damke_ has joined #lisp
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
norayr has joined #lisp
m00natic has joined #lisp
margeas has joined #lisp
dddddd has joined #lisp
bkst has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
wxie has quit [Quit: Bye.]
igemnace has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
knobo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Tobbi has joined #lisp
eSVG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
karswell_ has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)]
karswell has joined #lisp
k-stz has joined #lisp
bkst has joined #lisp
EvW has joined #lisp
EvW has quit [Client Quit]
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
knobo has joined #lisp
karswell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Achylles has joined #lisp
karswell has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
EvW1 has joined #lisp
<Xach>
I thought I would miss lisppaste more, but gist is pretty fine.
<jdz>
There's also lpaste.net.
strelox has joined #lisp
wxie has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Client Quit]
<Xach>
likes. sbcl 1.4.2 and new asdf busts some stuff, it seems.
<Xach>
and tpapp just announced no more lisp for him, too
troydm has quit [Quit: What is Hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? To turn back time because things were not supposed to happen like that (C) Rau Le Creuset]
<jdz>
tpapp?
troydm has joined #lisp
<Xach>
tamas k. papp
<Xach>
he switched to julia or something
paul0 has joined #lisp
lieven has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6]
_cosmonaut_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<jdz>
I can load array-operations, though.
lieven has joined #lisp
<jdz>
The problem with sb-cga could be due to madeira-port not being up-to-date with a recent ASDF.
jameser has joined #lisp
<Xach>
jdz: array-operations is a warning, so you will get a failure if you use :verbose t
<jdz>
Loads successfully (with warnings) even with :verbose t.
<Xach>
jdz: i think sbcl 1.4.2.9 has the fix already, actually
cyberlard has joined #lisp
<jdz>
Yes, the problem with array-operations seems to be unrelated to the ASDF problem.
<jdz>
And yes, array-operations on GitHub has an "abandoned" badge since Oct 29 (the only commmit in over 4 years).
red-dot has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
is it a popular dependency?
paule32 has joined #lisp
<paule32>
hello
<paule32>
i working on string's
<paule32>
and i would like know, how translators works
<paule32>
i know/read there a hash tables
_cosmonaut_ has joined #lisp
<paule32>
but how to build up, and look into?
<paule32>
as example
<paule32>
"you" -> translated into german "ich, du, er, sie, es"
<paule32>
"how" -> transl. german: "wie"
<paule32>
"are" -> transl. german: "wie"
<paule32>
"how are you": -> transl. german: "wie geht es dir"
<jdz>
General AI is not part of Common Lisp.
<paule32>
have i todo provide a list of word/words for each sentence?
<chenbing>
jess is a rule engine for java platform and it has lisp features
<jdz>
How does "has lisp features" relate to "a full subset of common lisp"?
<jackdaniel>
I don't see any lisp reference at first glance (not to mention common lisp)
<jackdaniel>
I highly doubt it is CL subset
<jdz>
Well, it's not too hard to be a subset of CL.
nonlinear has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
true that
<jackdaniel>
but that would impose, that you can run jess programs in CL
norayr has left #lisp [#lisp]
nonlinear has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
and since it introduces some rule operators, they would have to be implemented in this subset as well. if they are implemented in (say) Java, then valid program in Jess may simply not work on conforming CL implementation (unless you re-implement Jess in CL)
<jdz>
Pretty sure (call java.lang.Thread sleep 100) (from FAQ) is not a subset of CL .
<chenbing>
it just can runing in jvm
<chenbing>
call java api is a huge plus
tazjin has quit []
<jackdaniel>
yes, my point is that if it roots in java in it's core functionality, then it is not subset of CL
<chenbing>
yes i should be more serious
<chenbing>
after some my due dilligence
LiamH has joined #lisp
<_death>
in my view calling java api is a huge minus
TCZ has joined #lisp
<chenbing>
haha :-)
<pjb>
If it ran in abcl, it could be a subset of CL and you could still call java api.
Achylles has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Bike>
superset of a subset of lisp, as they say
<chenbing>
yeah I ran out of lisp a long time , it's time for me to back
<pjb>
paule32: (there's not a lot of syntax in lisp, but there's still some syntax, and syntax matters!)
<Bike>
ask yourselves: do you really need more of this in your lives?
<pjb>
Good question.
<paule32>
end of file on #<SB-INT:FORM-TRACKING-STREAM for "file /home/jens/Projekte/ai/test/kallup.lisp" {1004A40C53}>
<paule32>
(in form starting at line: 286, column: 0, position: 7307)
<Bike>
maybe paule32 can find a nice community somewhere that uses a language they can understand and react to, rather than hanging out here for a year and still not knowing what an error is
<Bike>
it's *word-table*. you wrote *word-table"
<pjb>
Well, there's #clnoobs
<Bike>
but it won't work as you want anyway because the hash table uses an eql test
<pjb>
paule32: could read clhs make-hash-table and notice that it's possible to use another test… But this may be over his IQ level.
<whoman>
sigh. humans can live in any conditions as long as we get used to it. Bike is very right we should be mindful. it doesnt pay anyone else to be strong, so we dont need to prove we can deal with things that arent even necessary. i do that often, i am very stubborn and lone wolf style. =P
nowhereman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<whoman>
i can hardly understand clhs and ive done quite a few science thesis papers =p
nowhereman has joined #lisp
<whoman>
not that i am smart. but clhs has quite an expectation
TCZ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<whoman>
oh i only feel smart when i am programming actually.. the rest of life is mostly thumbs down.
<chenbing>
every time in this chatroom I became humble
<Bike>
it's not about intelligence, it's about communication. specifically, none of us are able to communicate with paule32.
_cosmonaut_ has joined #lisp
<chenbing>
paste code in pasting website is better style
<jackdaniel>
that's not it. we understand him, he just doesn't understand us (nor listens to advices)
<jackdaniel>
so trying to help him seems mundane and wasted effort after a few tries
<paule32>
don't be so hard
<pjb>
paule32: so can you make the link between the error message and the error?
<paule32>
i fix it
<paule32>
it was an typo
<pjb>
paule32: good. What about this error message: (print (gethash "you" *word-table")) #| ERROR: Unexpected end of file on #<string-input-stream :closed #x302003D7ECED> |#
<pjb>
paule32: would you say it's clearer?
<paule32>
yes, lisp is wise
<pjb>
paule32: or what about: *** - READ: input stream #<INPUT CONCATENATED-STREAM> ends within a string ?
nowhereman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<pjb>
paule32: the point here is that different implementations have different error messages, and some may be friendlier and more understandable than others.
nowhereman has joined #lisp
yeticry_ has joined #lisp
<pjb>
paule32: what about: *** - READ: Eingabestream #<INPUT CONCATENATED-STREAM> endet innerhalb eines Strings.
<ecraven>
why is most of the code for the MIT CADR uppercased? wouldn't it have been easier to read if converted to lowercase?
<pjb>
paule32: Would you say it's the clearest error message of all?
<paule32>
why is it so hard? noone can support development with easier messages?
<pjb>
ecraven: because printers and punched cards didn't have lowercase.
<pjb>
paule32: what about: *** - READ: Eingabestream #<INPUT CONCATENATED-STREAM> endet innerhalb eines Strings.
_rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<pjb>
paule32: Would you say it's the clearest error message of all?
<paule32>
it's missing "
<paule32>
strings begin, and end with "
<paule32>
i know
<pjb>
paule32: in lisp, strings can be multiline!
<pjb>
paule32: so there's no error, until you reach the end of the file.
<pjb>
paule32: if you prefer the later error message, then you should use clisp -Lgerman
<paule32>
the problem is, sometimes, i spent my time under terminal consoles text based, and sometimes under gui - where you can get eye cancer
<pjb>
paule32: but since this is something I told you to do last year, we don't have any hope.
<paule32>
like other, with C++ \
yeticry has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<whoman>
tie yourself in a bag and roll off the docks -- like houdini, life is at stake -- you will find the way if the pressure is high enough. otherwise why get in the bag ?
yeticry_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<paule32>
cewl
<ecraven>
pjb: but all the docstrings are properly cased, so it can't be for printing. did the MIT CADR actually use a card reader?
<pjb>
ecraven: oh right, the MIT CADR was post punch-card…
<ecraven>
it might just be tradition, no deeper reason :-/ I find it harder to read than mixed or lower-case
<pjb>
ecraven: I would say it depend on the terminals they hard. Not all the early terminals (the first virtual teletypes) had lowercase, since teletypes had only uppercase.
<pjb>
ecraven: happily, you can use my downcase-lisp and downcase-lisp-region emacs commands.
<ecraven>
well, the actual *interface* (at least judging from running it with the usim simulator) supported lower-case characters alright
<pjb>
ecraven: even the Apple ][ only had uppercase!
rippa has joined #lisp
<ecraven>
yea, but the user interface of the CADR definitely supported lower case, so I'm just wondering why it's only used in the docstrings, not in the actual source code
<ecraven>
yea, but that's a consumer device and cost a lot less
<pjb>
you had to wait for 1981 to get lowercase!
<pjb>
Well, I would say that, plus we used to love uppercase. It gave a very computery style!
<pjb>
It's only those millenium youngster babygirls who can't stand uppercase, and who believe they're yelled at, which is not the case at all.
<pjb>
M-x caps-mode !
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<ecraven>
hehe, I have fond memories of the C64, I don't remember there being a lower-case in the BASIC interpreter there either
<ecraven>
and that was way after 1981
sjl has joined #lisp
<jdz>
ZX Spectrum Basic was also all uppercase.
damke_ has joined #lisp
<jdz>
It also had a structure editor.
yeticry has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<chenbing>
memory is miracle
<varjag>
a keyword editor
yeticry has joined #lisp
<chenbing>
thank god
EvW1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
EvW has joined #lisp
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
klltkr has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
papachan has joined #lisp
klltkr has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
klltkr has joined #lisp
klltkr has quit [Client Quit]
Guest70025 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Guest70025 has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
Guest70025 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Guest70025 has joined #lisp
knobo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
knobo has joined #lisp
gigetoo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<whoman>
sbcl is always yelling at me
gigetoo has joined #lisp
dyelar has joined #lisp
oleo has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
knobo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
mson has joined #lisp
Jesin has joined #lisp
chenbing has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
flamebeard has quit [Quit: Leaving]
klltkr has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
klltkr has quit [Client Quit]
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
klltkr has joined #lisp
varjag has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)]
klltkr has quit [Client Quit]
dec0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
shenghi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has joined #lisp
shenghi has joined #lisp
EvW has joined #lisp
<borodust>
Xach: do you use macos in retina mode?
klltkr has joined #lisp
klltkr has quit [Client Quit]
klltkr has joined #lisp
klltkr has quit [Client Quit]
<pjb>
With their dumb names, imagine the confusion when Apple will release an iRetina computer…
<borodust>
Xach: or, oh well, with retina display?
<jackdaniel>
I plan to make a company, which will prepend "ur" before product names
<jdz>
I use macOS and Linux laptops, bot with >200dpi.
<jackdaniel>
so it will be urRetina, urPhone etc ;)
<XachX>
borodust: yes
<borodust>
XachX: understood, thank you
<borodust>
XachX: i'm starting to think that coudl be the source of the issue (so far that's the only difference between machines that has the bug and the ones that doesn't)
<borodust>
D:
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
klltkr has joined #lisp
neoncontrails has quit []
klltkr has quit [Client Quit]
eudoxia has joined #lisp
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Pilu_ has joined #lisp
Lord_Nightmare has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
_cosmonaut_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Pilu_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
raphaelss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
EvW has joined #lisp
SaganMan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6]
mercourisj has joined #lisp
knobo has joined #lisp
wheelsucker has joined #lisp
Guest34322 has joined #lisp
jmercouris has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
mercourisj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
jmercouris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
jmercouris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
vibs29 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
mercourisj has joined #lisp
vibs29 has joined #lisp
nowhereman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nowhereman has joined #lisp
jmercouris has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
mercourisj has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
mercourisj has joined #lisp
mercourisj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mercourisj has joined #lisp
jmercouris has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
mercourisj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
binghe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
murii has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
emacsoma` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
zmt00 has joined #lisp
lagagain has joined #lisp
Lord_Nightmare has joined #lisp
ikki has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
rm8 has joined #lisp
kmb has joined #lisp
osune is now known as _osune
Guest34322 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
hajovonta has quit [Quit: hajovonta]
eudoxia has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mathi_aihtam has joined #lisp
schweers has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
varjag has joined #lisp
zaquest_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
molbdnilo has joined #lisp
Karl_Dscc has joined #lisp
Achylles has joined #lisp
Tobbi has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
bkst has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
brendyn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
raynold has joined #lisp
eudoxia has joined #lisp
<raynold>
ahh it's a wonderful day
molbdnilo has quit [Quit: molbdnilo]
zaquest_ has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Denommus has joined #lisp
mson has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
hhdave has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ninegrid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has joined #lisp
Achylles has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bkst has joined #lisp
<whoman>
=) how come ?
m00natic has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Karl_Dscc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mson has joined #lisp
osune has joined #lisp
teddy_error has joined #lisp
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
Karl_Dscc has joined #lisp
wigust has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
shka has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
jibanes has joined #lisp
turkja has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jealousmonk has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fikka has joined #lisp
jfb4 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
raphaelss has joined #lisp
jfb4 has joined #lisp
vlatkoB has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
nowhere_man has joined #lisp
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
motersen has joined #lisp
Karl_Dscc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has joined #lisp
scymtym has joined #lisp
rgrau has joined #lisp
libreman has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
lagagain has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
mathrick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
adi_ has joined #lisp
mathrick has joined #lisp
adi_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
alexmlw has joined #lisp
adi1 has joined #lisp
mejja has joined #lisp
libreman has joined #lisp
adi1 has quit [Client Quit]
m3adi3c has joined #lisp
m3adi3c has quit [Client Quit]
alexmlw has quit [Quit: alexmlw]
Kaisyu has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
m3adi3c has joined #lisp
Josh_2 has joined #lisp
m3adi3c has quit [Client Quit]
knobo1 has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
LocaMocha has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
knobo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
eschatologist has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
eschatologist has joined #lisp
BitPuffin|osx has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
wigust has joined #lisp
zooey has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zooey has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
EvW1 has joined #lisp
karswell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
damke has joined #lisp
z3t0 has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Vivvy has joined #lisp
rgrau has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Josh_2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zooey has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zooey has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
KongWubba has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
knicklux has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
shifty has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
rippa has quit [Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER]
* Xach
announces the new Quicklisp, download stats
<Xach>
it's hosted on blogger, and doesn't use SSL.
fikka has joined #lisp
<Bike>
works for me.
<eudoxia>
how strange
<eudoxia>
maybe it's the corporate proxy
<phoe>
works for me
<Bike>
quicklisp blocked for pornographic content
teddy_error has quit [Quit: Peace ☮︎]
<eudoxia>
huh, I can connect on my phone
<Xach>
Bike: boo
<eudoxia>
nevermind folks it's probably just the corporate proxy or isp
pfdietz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<Xach>
Hmm, my host doesn't support SSL for custom domain blogs. Boo.
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
* eudoxia
needs to migrate his blag off GitHub Pages to set up proper SSL
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
terpri has joined #lisp
dieggsy has joined #lisp
whoman has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
motersen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
eudoxia has quit [Quit: Leaving]
sarkic has quit [Quit: leaving]
papachan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0]
strelox has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
wigust has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
dieggsy has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.50)]
dieggsy has joined #lisp
Vivvy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
warweasle has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
MightyJoe is now known as cyraxjoe
rm8 has quit [Quit: i slep]
<oleo>
who uses clinch:*blah* to name stuff baaaa
rm8 has joined #lisp
<oleo>
i turned themall into clinch/*blah* etc
<oleo>
and still some of the stuff does not work as expected....
<drmeister>
How do people use (defsystem ... :build-operation asdf:monolithic-compile-bundle-op ...)?
dieggsy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<drmeister>
I'd like to use it like a regular asdf system where if the monolithic bundle doesn't exist - then it's built and if it does exist - then it is loaded - is that possible>
<drmeister>
?
<Xach>
drmeister: the folks i know who use monolithic-bundle-op use it as an op at runtime, not in the definition
<Xach>
and for them it's to elide asdf entirely from the end product
<drmeister>
I see - that is actually a more attractive idea.
<drmeister>
How do they work with the product? Do they set :build-pathname to where they want it installed?
<Xach>
drmeister: no, the monolithic-bundle-op produces a number of monofasls, and a later script is called that loads all those monofasls and saves an image, iirc.
<Xach>
the script is a simple loader, does not involve asdf, hardcodes paths to the monofasl output
<Xach>
then the deliverable is a binary thing that is a saved image built from that script, iirc
<drmeister>
I think it works a little differently in ECL and Clasp - because they can't save an image. My recollection (a few weeks ago I implemented this) was that it generates a lot of object files and links them into a single library.
<Xach>
ah
<drmeister>
Ok, so I see that I'm in new territory with a new implementation of an uncommonly used feature.
<jackdaniel>
in ecl monolithic-bundle-op produces either executable or a shared object (disguised as fasb which may be loaded) which are constructed indeed from many *.o files
fikka has joined #lisp
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: Thank you for that confirmation.
<jackdaniel>
which are results of calling (compile-file "foo.lisp" :system t) ; (or something very similar) by a higher level interface
oleo has left #lisp ["Leaving"]
<Shinmera>
drmeister: I use monolithic-concatenate-source-op to create a single lisp file of some systems that can just be loaded standalone.
oleo has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
But I don't know what exactly you want to do
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: Do you use monolithic-bundle-op - if so - how do you direct where the output goes?
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
drmeister: I use asdf:make-build and :move-here argument
<jackdaniel>
it is documented in ECL manual
<drmeister>
I want to bundle up a bunch of ASDF systems into a single library and load that when Clasp starts up to minimize startup time.
<jackdaniel>
Fare wasn't very fond of this interface
neoncontrails has joined #lisp
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: I've probably asked this a dozen times - ECL cannot create images - correct?
<drmeister>
We are having some trouble optimizing things because of how Clasp starts up and builds itself - I've always thought that ECL had the same issues.
<jackdaniel>
it can't *but* it's not impossible. GCL has save-lisp-and-die function and it has common roots as ECL
<jackdaniel>
afair it uses same function which was removed from glibc a while ago (which was used also by emacs), but I'm not sure about that
<jackdaniel>
regarding faster load, bundling systems into fasb indeed improves things
<jackdaniel>
because you simply dlopen them, and that is fast
<jackdaniel>
(internally of course, don't force people to use dlopen - (load "foo.fasb") should do)
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<drmeister>
What about starting up an ECL system? Clasp evaluates every top level form in order of how they were COMPILE-FILE'd - does ECL do that?
<jackdaniel>
in ECL you have libecl.so (which is *the* implementation) and ecl binary, which opens it. additionally in /usr/lib/ecl-xx/ you have fas files, which may be loaded (or required), which are also libraries
<jackdaniel>
so there is no compilation at start
<jackdaniel>
you just open bunch of shared objects
brendyn has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
asdf for instance
<jackdaniel>
that is a very fine quality imo, that you can compile arbitrary system into a shared library (which could be used from other languages)
<drmeister>
Right - there is no compilation in Clasp except for fastgf has forced it on us until I can figure out how to get around it.
<drmeister>
I'll say that a bit more clearly: there is no compilation at startup in Clasp either, except for fastgf.
<drmeister>
But for instance. Every DEFUN that is compile-file'd leaves code in the fasl so that at startup the DEFUN code is evaluated to bind the each function to its symbol.
<jackdaniel>
ECL doesn't evaluate top-level forms at startup, it has vv internal structure which may be used to populate side effects though
<drmeister>
What is "vv internal structure"?
<jackdaniel>
I'm not able to describe details, it's complex and I don't understand it very well
<Bike>
sounds interesting. where is that in the source?
<drmeister>
What does a fasl file do at load time then? Does it somehow bind the final symbol value slots and function slots, classes and other system configuration info?
<jackdaniel>
it is scattered in src/cmp/
<Bike>
ah, naturally
teddy_error has joined #lisp
dieggsy has joined #lisp
dyelar has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<jackdaniel>
drmeister: I don't remember. I have debugged this code and fixed some issues, but there are too many details to remember
<jackdaniel>
beauty of inherited code ;)
<drmeister>
That's ok - thanks.
<drmeister>
The beauty of inherited code that works.
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
any good recipes how to throw away being shy and record McCLIM video at instant? :)
aeth has joined #lisp
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: Is there a way to get quicklisp in ECL to save the intermediate C files when it builds systems?
<drmeister>
pwd
<drmeister>
Whoops
<jackdaniel>
yes, you have to (ext:install-c-compiler) and set c::*delete-files* (name may be a little different) to nil
<jackdaniel>
useful for debugging
frob has joined #lisp
frob is now known as Guest24518
<jackdaniel>
each file when compiled has 3 files associated: c, h and data
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
the last one contains vv data
<jackdaniel>
(which may be empty of course, if there is nothing interesting there)
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
papachan has joined #lisp
zooey has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: Does ECL do much inlining?
<jackdaniel>
I didn't count. it does some
<jackdaniel>
cmpinline may have some hints
mathi_aihtam has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
varjag has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.2.1)]
mathi_aihtam has joined #lisp
mson has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
mondec` has joined #lisp
mondec has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
z3t0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mishoo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
teddy_error has quit [Quit: Peace ☮︎]
Tobbi has joined #lisp
KongWubba has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
osune has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
flazh has quit [Quit: flazh]
flazh has joined #lisp
Karl_Dscc has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
_rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
flazh has quit [Quit: flazh]
flazh has joined #lisp
emacsomancer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pseudonymous has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Bike has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
wheelsucker has quit [Quit: Client Quit]
knicklux has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
mathi_aihtam has quit [Quit: mathi_aihtam]
papachan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0]
LiamH has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Jesin has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Karl_Dscc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
damke_ has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
pierpa has joined #lisp
mathi_aihtam has joined #lisp
zachk has joined #lisp
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sjl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
pseudonymous has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<phoe>
There was a somewhat recent blogpost on SBCL's type inference and such, I remember an example about integers. Does anyone have a link anywhere handy?
<larsen>
I'm facing a problems using a couple of packages because package A's nickname clashes with the name of package B. what's the practice in such cases?
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<larsen>
s/blems/blem/
<phoe>
larsen: bt?
<phoe>
or another nickname?
<larsen>
mmm, sorry, what does bt mean?
wxie has joined #lisp
<phoe>
bordeaux-threads
<phoe>
one of the most often clashing packages, considering binary-types
<phoe>
both have the bt nickname.
<larsen>
(in general, I'm puzzled because IMHO defining a nickname should be a choice of the user, not of the author of the package)
<phoe>
larsen: which packages are giving you the issue?
<larsen>
ah ok, no. it's another couple of packages. cl-flow (nickname flow) and flow
<larsen>
harmony (which is the main system loading flow) is on quicklisp
<larsen>
ok. I'll do
<larsen>
I reckon there's no general technique to amend this error on my side
<phoe>
larsen: the general way is RENAME-PACKAGE to remove the conflict manually, but that's a destructive operation.
mathi_aihtam has quit [Quit: mathi_aihtam]
<phoe>
like, you're modifying the nickname for your whole Lisp image.
<phoe>
you can keep the name and just remove the nicknames this way.
<mfiano>
phoe: gl is used by 3 packages if i recall correctly
<larsen>
ok. I found rename-package but it was not clear to me *when* I was supposed to call it, because so far I only have a set of dependencies in the .asd file for my system
<larsen>
anyway, I'll open that issue. thank you
jameser has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Quit: Bye.]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
neoncontrails has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
neoncontrails has joined #lisp
neoncontrails has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has joined #lisp
Kaisyu has joined #lisp
xrash has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
Denommus has quit [Quit: going home]
jack_rabbit_ has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
jack_rabbit has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jameser has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<jasom>
would this be a valid loop: (loop while (< foo limit) sum (bar) into foo)