Kubuxu changed the topic of #ipfs to: go-ipfs 0.4.14 is out! Try out all the new features: https://dist.ipfs.io/go-ipfs/v0.4.14 | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/ipfs/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vVBS0"
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<devblob> Are we doing flooding technique in websockets-star for JS Libp2p swarming?
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<dukaanbabu> Hi..how does websocket-star work? Is it using flooding technique for content routing?
<dukaanbabu> And peer routing?
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<dukaanbabu> @lidel hi , Can you explain how webocket-star works for pubsub
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<lidel> dukaanbabu, AFAIK it is just a transport for libp2p: https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p-websocket-star
<lidel> what is specific about it, is that it requires a rendezvous server. but that is a low level detail that should not impact pubsub
<dukaanbabu> so can you compare dht pubsub vs websocket star pubsub
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<lidel> Not exactly my area and I am worried I'll get details wrong, but websocket star is on different abstraction layer, it impacts things like connectivity and peer discovery, i dont think it impacts pubsub in any other way than by introducing peer discovery constraints (eg. you cant mix HTTP and HTTPS rendezvous servers right now, i think)
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<dukaanbabu> true.. it will not affect peer discovery...but I am worried about content discovery in pubsub mechanism..whether it is flooding to every body via the signalling server
<dukaanbabu> I want to understand the content routing mechanism in websocket-star transport
<lidel> dukaanbabu, I'd say everything goes to rendezvous server and then it works just like it does with tcp transport, but try to catch mkg20001, or someone else who was working on websocket-star to confirm
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<dukaanbabu> sure.. thanks... i dunno whom to ask in the first place...thanks anyways ill ask mkg20001
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<dukaanbabu> @mkg20001 can you explain me the content routing mechanism in websocket-star transport
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<mkg20001> dukaanbabu: this document should explain it https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p-websocket-star/blob/master/PROTOCOL.md
<mkg20001> basically socket-io moves the data from a to b, exposing a connection interface just like tcp.
<mkg20001> (or rather from a through server to b)
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<inetic> Hello, when I do `ipfs cat <some-hash>`, do I automatically become a seeder of that content?
<Kubuxu> inetic: yes
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<inetic> Kubuxu: thanks! would you know whether the same applies if I only used `coreunix.Cat(my_context, my_node, cid)`? My current problem is that it doesn't seem to be the case.
<Kubuxu> it should reseed it, I am not sure if it publishes the provider records right away.
<Kubuxu> you can check this by issuing `ipfs dht findprovs` short time after the Cat call.
<Kubuxu> if your node ID shows in that list it means that it should work or there is connectivity issue.
<Kubuxu> inetic: ^^
<inetic> Kubuxu: thanks, going to give it a try.
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<Kubuxu> coreapi will be our "official" library interface but it isn't complete yet.
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<inetic> Kubuxu: it indeed looks like `coreunix.Cat(...)` does make the the node a seeder (does provider equal seeder in ipfs nomenclature?). I wasn't aware that it takes time for a the node doing `ipfs cat` to become a provider, and the `ipfs dht findprovs` is quite handy.
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<Kubuxu> inetic: so node is seeder from the time it gets the content, problem is: other nodes can't discover that content until it is provided to DHT.
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<creationix> is dht the only discovery mechanism?
<creationix> or could I use a list of known IPv6 addresses on a private cjdns network, for example?
<Kubuxu> we use dht to connect to nodes, after you are connected to node having content then we will ask this node for the content
<Kubuxu> so anything that causes peer discovery will work, mdns, manual connections.
<inetic> Kubuxu: Got it. Can I become a provider without doing either `cat` or `add`? That is, I'd like to participate in sharing a content without explicitly knowing what the content is (outside of the ipfs repository directory).
<Kubuxu> you can do `ipfs refs -r` which will just download and print out hashes of all the content under given hash
<Kubuxu> this causes the node to download all the content and start seeding it too
<inetic> Nice! Thanks!
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<coyotespike> Hello all. I have two nodes on separate digital ocean boxes. The dialer can discover the listener but cannot connect to it, or dial to it. Has anyone hit this before? I've been at it for awhile and am fairly mystified.
<coyotespike> The dialer has `discovery: [new Railing(<listener-multiaddress-string>)]`
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<Poeticode> hmm try running `ipfs id` on the nodes, and adding the ip4 address of them to the other's respective swarm bootstrap array @ coyotespike
<Poeticode> then they should hopefully be connected to each other when the nodes start up
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<coyotespike> Thanks Poeticode. Since the dialer starts second, I put `config: { Bootstrap: ['ipfs/<listener-ipaddress>/tcp/4001/ipfs/<listener-ipfs-id>`]` in it, but then it stopped connecting to the default bootstrap nodes as well
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<coyotespike> A browser node was able to dial the listener
<coyotespike> unclear to me why a nodejs node can discover but not connect to another nodejs node
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<coyotespike> When the dialer dials, it receives the error 'true' 🤷
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<coyotespike> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<Powersource> am I understanding this correctly: If I ipfs.files.add a file to e.g. /dir/file.txt I can then run MFS commands like ipfs.files.stat on it? Why the MFS distinction?
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<tperson> Powersource: where are you seeing a distinction? The `ipfs files` api is mfs.
<Powersource> tperson: the big title saying "Mutable File System", splitting the documentation in two :P https://github.com/ipfs/interface-ipfs-core/blob/master/SPEC/FILES.md#mutable-file-system
<Powersource> I interpreted it as two mostly separate systems at first, I was wondering how to add files to mfs but then I realized it's probably the same :D
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<Powersource> from an implementation perspective it's probably different which is why it probably is like this (and look at the two variants of ls)
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<tperson> Ah, ya that is a bit confusing
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<tperson> Let me see if I can track down an issue where a lot of this is discussed. There is a difference with regard to that spec though. The commands under `mfs` operate on a mutable root, where '/' is an alias the the most recent root hash.
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<lgierth> Powersource: happy those stickers get to travel a bit :)
<lgierth> louisc: o/
<louisc> lgierth: yo
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<lgierth> i'm in berlin the whole time before 5-may
<louisc> lgierth: git-on-ipfs would be an interesting topic, my biggest concern is that we try to push as much of the content away from being as "developer-centric" as possible. there's several reasons for this, and I think we can discuss that further over a drink.
<lgierth> yeah right after i typed that i remembered the kind of audience at the last event
<lgierth> is npm-on-ipfs also possibly to dev-centric?
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<louisc> lgierth: my feeling is to say yes, because I don't know how relevant npm is outside of developer circles. when do you get into Berlin?
<lgierth> i live here
<louisc> oh sick
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<lgierth> understood - right now i think ipfs's learning curve might be a tad too steep for your audience (which we're working on of course but that's where we are)
<lgierth> there's a lot of not directly dev things to explain though, the politics of the web so to speak
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<lgierth> i.e. getting to the core of why location addressing sucks and why we need those complicated long hash addresses
<louisc> for sure, I still think there's a way to bridge that gap through these events we're putting on, and I'd like to figure out how.
<lgierth> i figure blockchain-ish things might be interesting though?
<lgierth> ipfs-companion and metamask make it pretty nice to develop ethereum/ipfs based apps in regular browsers
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<louisc> lgierth: I try to find as many angles outside of the blockchain space as I can, just because there are already so many blockchain meetups and events in this city now, but kei who is involved with the next event who works at Gnosis comes from that world, so there will probably be some more blockchain discussion this time around.
<lgierth> ++
<lgierth> how to make typical web 2.0 app data models into decentralized data models is an interesting topic too
<lgierth> every "how do i do X on the decentralized web" question boils down to data structures
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<louisc> lgierth: I would agree with that, the trick is finding ways of breaking that down for an audience that doesn't write applications themselves, and articulating why it's relevant for them to think about it. Yosh who is currently working on dat's rust port, is figuring out ways of explaining why p2p protocols in the mobile computing world is very patchy right now. there are lots of technical reasons for this, but translating that
<louisc> across to an audience that isn't entirely technical is a challenge, but an important challenge.
<louisc> everyone asks "why isn't p2p on mobile a thing?"
<louisc> you and I obviously understand why, but, making that discussion relevant to someone else is how we're trying to approach these topics
<lgierth> so, mh, are you trying to activate these people?
<lgierth> i also remember you said something about focusing a future event on mesh networking
<lgierth> (i mentioned freifunk in response)
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<r0kk3rz> do you have an audience in mind? ok not devs, but general it folk or who?
<louisc> lgierth: what do you mean by activating?
<lgierth> there's quite interesting case studies of local apps in community networks
<lgierth> activating as in turning them into creators of p2p content/sites/apps
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<lgierth> also, activating them for advocacy/activism
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<louisc> lgierth: for sure. tying into r0kk3rz question as well, the audience/scene these events cater towards are not just developers, but also artists, writers, activists, video editors, people from creative backgrounds. they're still very technical, but not necessarily developers
<louisc> lgierth: and this is why you've also probably noticed there is currently a slant towards dat
<louisc> lgierth: because we see Beaker as being a great entry point into this world right now
<lgierth> yeah beaker is great <3
<r0kk3rz> dat has some nice usable tools for sure
<louisc> an interesting scene of designers have also congregated around dat's ecosystem, very likely because dat and beaker have grown out of the js/node scenes. there's some base familiarity there
<louisc> and of course where there is interesting design going on, there is interesting visual material that people see and what to click on and play around with
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<lgierth> there's not terribly much click-and-play in ipfs land yet
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<lgierth> there is quite a bit, but it doesn't tie together as nicely as beaker does
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<louisc> lgierth: I'm really interested in finding ways to discuss what ipfs does to that same audience, even now, when there's less to click and play with. there's always a way
<lgierth> datatogether.org is pretty interesting ipfs based work around scientific datasets managed by communities
<lgierth> which is ipfs based - but not much point and click yet either
<lgierth> but certainly interesting
<lgierth> yeah understood
<louisc> I mean, what I'd like to know more about is
<lgierth> so i gather most of these folks are pretty familiar with political theory and all that haha
<louisc> what does ipfs currently do, that dat doesn't do. I'm sure there's lots, and I want to know more about it
<lgierth> the mechanisms by which information systems like the internet evolve (over decades) is something we study a lot
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<lgierth> yeah - we build foundational protocols (there's dozens we've built) that all tie together, and aim to replace core internet protocols. the really tricky part is doing it in a way that there can actually be a gradual transition over time
<lgierth> aka the upgrade path
<lgierth> explaining/understaning that is certainly something that doesn't require dev experience
<lgierth> lots of history to point to
<louisc> for sure. I think that's a really interesting topic to hone in on
<lgierth> e.g. how the general-public internet was at first an overlay over the phone networking, and then over time it turned around
<lgierth> there's similar history with telegraph and telephone
<louisc> I'm going to log off for the evening shortly, is IRC or email the best way to stay in touch?
<lgierth> irc is fine, otherwise lars@protocol.ai
<lgierth> just make sure to ping me so i notice :)
<louisc> cool! I'll be in touch.
<louisc> thanks for the chat ^__^
<lgierth> you too :)
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<silverfox> Hello comrads
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<silverfox> So if i spawn a node in the browser, that node and all of its contents get deleted after the page is closed correct?
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<coyotespike> Hey y'all, I'm still hitting this problem which feels fairly basic. I grabbed the basic example here: https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p/tree/master/examples/transports
<coyotespike> And then made a little repo with 1.js and 2.js in it. I cloned it on two different machines, digitalocean boxes.
<coyotespike> Then I had 2.js dial to the multiaddress which 1.js printed out.
<coyotespike> I got: `Error: Circuit not enabled!`
<coyotespike> As commented here - https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p/issues/188 - this error message really means that dialing as a whole failed.
<coyotespike> A browser has been able to dial to this node, no problem. Why does another identical node fail to dial?
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<tperson> Are you running the 1.js and 2.js in that example transport folder, or did you modify them?
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