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<ruby32>
hey, what do you guys use for p2p messaging? does IPFS have some p2p messaging function for ephemeral messages between peers?
<petersjt014[m]>
we got orbit, which is an experimental chatroom based on the pubsub feature
<ruby32>
is there anything other than orbit right now?
<petersjt014[m]>
Not that I know of (though the devs would prob know better than me)
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<ruby32>
petersjt014[m], someone in another channel recommended tox, it seems like this is what i'm looking for
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<yaksbeard[m]>
bitmessage... tox... matrix (what im using at the moment).... not ipfs tho... but im not sure ipfs is really intended to be used for that type of thing is it?
<yaksbeard[m]>
good one for filesharing is onionshare if you want to privately and anonymously transfer a file to someone(s)
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<snoopyddogg>
why is the c implementation at https://github.com/Agorise/c-ipfs not considered part of the ipfs project? what would it take to make it so?
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<petersjt014[m]>
Conforming to the specs and passes well-written tests would probably be enough
<petersjt014[m]>
At least to be listed on the implementations page--I think the go and js versions are the only 'official' ones.
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<victorbjelkholm>
ruby32: messaging as in traditional chat? Otherwise pubsub and opening streams to peers and talking via protocols are a core part of libp2p which ipfs builds on top of
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<darkdrgn2k[m]>
so from what i understand there is no "cjdns" boot straps to get ipfs working under hyperborea
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
if i where to add one i assume it would still not work because there is no internet access from hyperborea
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
Is there any way to make it work? ie access content on the internet?
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<snoopyddogg>
i don't intend to cause a flamewar, but why go instead of c? other than the obvious like concurreny and thread safety, was it what jbenet already knew? I just want to understand the design choices
<Icefoz>
snoopyddogg: Probably 'cause C offered no advantages they cared about.
<snoopyddogg>
Icefoz, hmm what about embedded devices and IoT stuff? since the aim is to create a meshnet like experience if the backbone goes out?
<Icefoz>
Considering current IPFS uses gigabytes of memory, I don't think that was a design goal.
<snoopyddogg>
fair enough
<snoopyddogg>
im just curious and couldn't find docs on it
<Icefoz>
I know the feeling.
<snoopyddogg>
the c implementation excites me but seems to have lost contributers back in Nov 2017
<snoopyddogg>
but i want to ask, is it better to divide and conquer (multiple implementations) or focus on getting the main one up to 1.0?
<snoopyddogg>
latter seems more useful
<voker57>
rewriting something in C does not magically make it consume zero resources
<snoopyddogg>
what about the arguments like various kernel modules being developed
<snoopyddogg>
wouldn't getting ipfs into both browsers and os's be attractive?
<snoopyddogg>
ik performance isn't everything
<snoopyddogg>
dev time is important too
<ToxicFrog>
What does having it in the kernel buy? A bit of performance, but enough to make a difference in something that's primarily disk- and network-bound?
<snoopyddogg>
i just assumed if its gonna be like FUSE or other FS it needs kernel modules, which happen to need C
<snoopyddogg>
i could be wrong, enlighten me if i am
<Icefoz>
You can write a FUSE module without touching kernel code, that's the point.
<snoopyddogg>
hmm
<Icefoz>
And Go and C can call each other fairly easily.
<snoopyddogg>
you say disk but what about the edge case in which tech giants adopt it with infinte resources and state of the art ssd tech
<snoopyddogg>
worry about it when we get there ik
<Icefoz>
Then they have the resources to write whatever they want.
<snoopyddogg>
cool
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<snoopyddogg>
also, is 51% attack an issue like other decentralized tech? What if a tech giant pins the root merkle node?
<snoopyddogg>
infinite resources to store data
<snoopyddogg>
ipfs becomes centralized?
<voker57>
I suggest you learn more about how IPFS actually works before asking random questions like this
<snoopyddogg>
ok
<Icefoz>
That's like asking what happens if Bittorrent becomes centralized.
* snoopyddogg
rtfms
<Icefoz>
IPFS isn't a blockchain or something, there's no root node or anything.
<snoopyddogg>
watching that merkle forest video from a year ago makes it sound like at a high level, its the blockchain connecting all other decentralized tech
<snoopyddogg>
thats why i asked
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<underikar>
Well just in the sense that it's a merkle dag
<underikar>
unlike a blockchain you dont care what the "root" node is
<snoopyddogg>
interesting
<underikar>
you only care what you're looking for
<underikar>
i.e. specific content
<underikar>
for which you have the hash
<snoopyddogg>
ok
<underikar>
there is no consensus mechanism
<underikar>
its just "heres the hash for the content i want"
<underikar>
and the network returns you that content
<snoopyddogg>
abstracted magic nice
<underikar>
and then you check the hash to verify that its what youre looking for
<underikar>
(or rather the implementation of ipfs does that for you)
<Kubuxu>
snoopyddogg: we already have plugins to support Eth, Bitcoin and ZCash blockchains
<Kubuxu>
in theory you could build clients of those networks on ipfs without worrying about networking at all
<Kubuxu>
apart from submitting transactions
<snoopyddogg>
hmm, personally i've distanced myself from cryptocurrencies due to the hype, sorry if i came accross like that was my frame of reference
<Kubuxu>
people confuse it frequently
<snoopyddogg>
ive read the github docs and it seems like an FAQ with these answers might be needed
<snoopyddogg>
if many people make these assumptions frequentlyuu
<snoopyddogg>
ik dev time, if i had a solid understanding id contribute that
<ToxicFrog>
snoopyddogg: "blockchain" is a buzzword for "merkle tree with a consensus mechanism for identifying the root node". There's a lot of confusion between that, merkle trees in general (used by IPFS, most modern version control systems, ZFS, etc), and the hideously wasteful decentralized consensus mechanisms used by cryptocurrencies.
<snoopyddogg>
yes the hype around them is why i own $0 crypto
<snoopyddogg>
i first learned about ipfs from a friend 2 years ago, but only recently have been like hey this is worth investing time in
<snoopyddogg>
i was skeptical at first, still am a little bit
<ToxicFrog>
For some reason IPFS seems to attract some cryptocurrency types, but it's not the same thing any more than git is.
<snoopyddogg>
hence my hypothetical question what if bittorent/ipfs becomes centralized
<snoopyddogg>
is it truly impossible?
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<snoopyddogg>
yes or no and rtfm is all that i need
<voker57>
yes
<r0kk3rz>
pretty much, theres no 'miners'
<snoopyddogg>
cool
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<voker57>
it's possible to disrupt the network with lots of bandwidth I guess
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<voker57>
but takeover is no since nobody trusts anyone in ipfs
<snoopyddogg>
even better
<whyrusleeping>
but if i go unplug my cable modem, ipfs still works fine
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<r0kk3rz>
ipfs is mostly a p2p transport protocol so im not sure what centralisation even means in that context
<whyrusleeping>
I was recently in a hotel with really crappy internet, and needed to fetch some things through ipfs
<ToxicFrog>
r0kk3rz: everyone uses the same bootstrap nodes and is connected to the same swarm, I guess?
<whyrusleeping>
so i had someone else who was nearby come and get on the same wifi as me
<whyrusleeping>
and boom, i was able to fetch everything from them seamlessly
<ToxicFrog>
I mean, in practice this is how IPFS works today, most people are connected to the ipfs.io swarm, but there's no way to enforce that
<snoopyddogg>
my "friend" who introduced me to this tech went into the details about merkle trees before i even knew what one was
<snoopyddogg>
totally lost in geek speak
<voker57>
merkle tree is just a data structure
<ToxicFrog>
Merkle trees are a great technology unfairly maligned by association with bitcoin :)
<snoopyddogg>
ik
<snoopyddogg>
now
<snoopyddogg>
why were you able to fetch everything from the other person on the same wifi given that they may have not pinned the same content?
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<snoopyddogg>
was it just luck?
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<snoopyddogg>
whyrusleeping, ^^
<underikar>
whyrusleeping: i love that story
<whyrusleeping>
snoopyddogg: because i knew that person had the content i needed on their ipfs node
<snoopyddogg>
ok
<whyrusleeping>
it was a bunch of dependencies
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<snoopyddogg>
also, ipfs applied to linux package managers is a great idea imo, everyone becomes a mirror
<ToxicFrog>
I've just been using IPFS for throwaway file sharing with opaque URLs. Wrote a little shell script that ipfs add's the data and emits a link, and can list and remove previous shares (using the ipfs keystore to keep track)
<snoopyddogg>
i need to do this for gentoo, imma fork it
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<ToxicFrog>
It originally used the keystore because it supported IPNS to make shares that expired, but since IPNS doesn't work on private swarms I dropped that feature :/
<snoopyddogg>
although im not keen on cryptocurrencies, AR and VR are buzzwordy and I love them. I hope one day ipfs aids in local media storage for web delivered AR and VR experiences
<snoopyddogg>
i.e. you don't need to spend minutes or hours downloading assets and textures accross the globe to test out AR and VR
<snoopyddogg>
grab it from someone around you
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<snoopyddogg>
the cdn nature of ipfs truly excites me
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<djdv>
I'd love to see some filesystem overlay stuff with binary packages, like instead of fetching an archive and extracting it, you just mount+overlay over /usr/local/bin or wherever
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<djdv>
I guess source code could be mounted in the same way actually
<djdv>
but I mean like `pkg add go-ipfs` being equivalent to `mount /ipfs/Qm../MyRepo/go-ipfs /bin-overlay`
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<moyishizhe>
Hello,
<moyishizhe>
Did you run the ipfs node at openwrt platform? Whether it's amd64 or arm.
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<darkdrgn2k[m]>
so i guess that leads me to IPFS over CJDNS
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
is there a way to access the public swarm from CJDNS?
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<underikar>
am i able to use ipfs js api with the public gateway?
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<kvuser3>
Hi. I found some papers talking about Hadoop over IPFS and I'd like to run some tests too. Does someone knows about a potential existing Hadoop connector? (org.apache.hadoop.fs.FileSystem java implementation for IPFS)
<kvuser3>
If not I'll try to create one on github, but any existing work would be appreciated
<kvuser3>
BTW, thanks to protocol lab for all the (good) work done, I'm testing lot of things based on IPFS and that's really much more than pleasant
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<bitspill>
Are there some filestore summary stats that I'm overlooking?
<bitspill>
`ipfs repo stat` doesn't include it and unless I missed something obvious right now I'm analyzing `ipfs filestore ls` but not sure if that's the best way
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<bitspill>
I've been waiting "forever" for a result to come back from ` ipfs filestore ls | tee >(awk '{ SUM += $4 } END { print SUM }') >(wc -l)` to get total size and file count
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<bitspill>
aww, and I just realized `ipfs filestore ls` that's not the filesize, it's the offset. woops
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<kvuser3>
no useless question as sometime answer comes by itself ;)
<bitspill>
my core question still stands though, How can I find the count and size of files in my experimental.filestore with (via --nocopy pinning)?
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<c0c00n>
Maybe give a try to "ipfs refs local" tonlist all refs local to a node ?
<c0c00n>
to list*
<c0c00n>
From what I understood, there's no way to list every hashes as those are distributed...so I think you need to go through pined items commands or refs...
<c0c00n>
So giving the local hashes you can loop to get every item size/description...cause I don't think there's no one command to have that
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<bitspill>
ok, I was hoping there'd be something similar to `ipfs repo stat` that'd have a summary of data in the filestore similar to RepoSize
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<bitspill>
along the lines of a `ipfs filestore stat` would be fantastic
<kvuser3>
what about "ipfs files stat /" ?
<kvuser3>
ipfs help says that the files command "Interact with objects as if they were a unix filesystem"
<bitspill>
`ipfs files stat /` returns the empty directory `QmUNLL` and a size of 0
<kvuser3>
I think it depends what you want to stat
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<AphelionZ>
help! I just started getting this error in node.js ipfs
<AphelionZ>
TypeError: this._ipfs._libp2pNode.dialProtocol is not a function
<kvuser3>
@bitspill : do you already have some items under IPFS ? if so, give a try to "ipfs stat /ipfs/" ?
<kvuser3>
ipfs files stat /ipfs/ (with the last slash)
<bitspill>
but those don't seem useful
<bitspill>
the first number is "size" per filestore/util.go but it's always 262144 for every item and the last number is an "offset"
<kvuser3>
maybe because of blocks ?
<bitspill>
stat /ipfs/ -> Error: path must contain at least one component
<kvuser3>
ipfs pin ls ?
<bitspill>
will check, currently waiting for the output of that to save to a file
<kvuser3>
I think it'll end as ipfs filestore ls ... waiting forever
<bitspill>
oh, that did eventually end it just felt like forever
<kvuser3>
ipfs refs local | xargs -n1 ipfs object stat at least doesn't give all the same sizes
<bitspill>
although... you mentioning blocks... is `filestore ls` returning blocks rather than files?
<bitspill>
I think if I sum the size from column 2 `filestore ls` even though many of them are the same those are just "full-size blocks" there were a few scattered throughout that were smaller which I assume would be the trailing remainder of the file
<bitspill>
so in the end I'll get the right total
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<kvuser3>
don't know for sure... I'm testing IPFS too... but I also think those are full-size blocks sizes + trailing
<kvuser3>
what's your goal again?
<bitspill>
I want to know the size of my local filestore that's been pinned using `--nocopy`
<kvuser3>
if you only want to know how much space IPFS filestore is using, maybe a simple du command on the local unix directory would be sufficient
<kvuser3>
hum ok
<bitspill>
there's more files there than those taht are pinned
<kvuser3>
can't help more sorry
<kvuser3>
yep
<kvuser3>
I understood
<bitspill>
actually you did, I got it now
<bitspill>
cat filestorels.txt | awk '{ SUM += $2 } END { print SUM }' -> 1858043536663 -> ~1.85 TB
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<bitspill>
I wasn't noticing filestore ls listed block instead of files that was the key
<kvuser3>
:)
<kvuser3>
nice to know ;)
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