meowrobot changed the topic of #elliottcable to: Your topic makes my IRC client cry. 𝕯𝖊𝖓-𝖔𝖋-𝕯𝖊𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖉-𝕯𝖆𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖘 || #ELLIOTTCABLE is not about ELLIOTTC [string lost in sudden transmission termination]
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<alexgordon> sup
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly, ELLIOTTCABLE: yo?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: hi!
<alexgordon> yo elly
<ELLIOTTCABLE> sup
<alexgordon> so I'm trying to find a set of functions that is turing complete
<alexgordon> I mean, I know about the SKI stuff, but a _useful_ set of functions
<ELLIOTTCABLE> lmao
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you just add combinators until it's sufficiently not-tarpit-y, basically
<alexgordon> yeah but which!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I can't recall but there's a wikipedia page on it
<alexgordon> lol the opposite of this page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my ghosh biryani has ONIONS IN IT OMFG
<alexgordon> !
<ELLIOTTCABLE> angry
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gonna drive off a bridge
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oooo but spicy lamb
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in my faaaaaace
<ELLIOTTCABLE> is making up for all ills
<alexgordon> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> i opened a google
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and forgot what I Wanted to
<alexgordon> feel like I am going about this the wrong way
<alexgordon> it's not very general
<ELLIOTTCABLE> reduce*
<ELLIOTTCABLE> reduce covers map etc
<ELLIOTTCABLE> iirc
<alexgordon> it does?
<alexgordon> like... imperative programming covers a lot of this stuff too
<ELLIOTTCABLE> idk heard it in a podcast I think
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the catamorphism?
<alexgordon> cats
<alexgordon> -cats
<alexgordon> dammit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> purr is dead, long live the purr
<alexgordon> lol searching for "implement map with reduce" is completely useless
<alexgordon> mapreduce everywhere
<alexgordon> oh I get it
<alexgordon> just reduce with cons
<ELLIOTTCABLE> butter chicken
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no onions!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> better.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: are you sane now?
<alexgordon> you hardly ever talk about paws
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I miss Paws so much >:
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and no, I am categorically not
<ELLIOTTCABLE> cf. last night's conversation about all my scary brain-doctor appointments over the next two weeks
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm *maybe* going to contribute to Tulip, if I can find the spoons to dig into their code
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the two creators are way too busy for me, and I'm like, Not Actually Know Much About Plt, so spelunking that codebase is going to be ... a challenge
<alexgordon> 1) brain doctor?
<alexgordon> 2) Tulip?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> get a fucking bouncer *eyeroll*
<alexgordon> lol
<alexgordon> help me understand
<alexgordon> otherwise I will have to get icecream
<alexgordon> I will probably get ice cream either way
<ELLIOTTCABLE> more usefully, watch this video, which is the one that convinced me that if I can't convince anyone to build Paws with me, Tulip is a close second
<alexgordon> looks interesting
<alexgordon> I've bookmarked it
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: so I've decided that the easiest way to have fewer functions is to expand the definition of a function
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<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: mmm think you will like this
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: no
<alexgordon> no?
<alexgordon> boring elliott strikes again
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: learn paws?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE> or the non-boring bits thereof
<alexgordon> me?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I fixed ownership, it's p. slick
<alexgordon> I have
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ownership (locking.) can now be put on offer, which is a taint that flows through the call-graph allowing callees to take that ownership, but disallowing anything else in the program from doing so
<ELLIOTTCABLE> tl;dr atomic lock transfer, but without mutual self-knowledge amongst the participants
<ELLIOTTCABLE> which is v. important in a language this dynamic
<alexgordon> ok you're insane again
<ELLIOTTCABLE> what is insane about any of that I tried v. hard to use normal words
<ELLIOTTCABLE> like
<ELLIOTTCABLE> if you have a function that has to operate on some data in a shared-memory situation, but it needs to *delegate* some bit of work to another function,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> then you'd normally do something like an atomic transfer of locking – “I discard this lock *but only* to specifically give it to <other delegated operator>.”
<alexgordon> okaaaaay
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *but*, in a language like Paws, where there's almost literally *guaranteed* to be several, if not dozens, of abstraction layers *you don't know about* between yourself and who you *think* you're delegating to,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yes this is clear yes yes?
<alexgordon> no :(
<alexgordon> it is 5am now
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's important to say “I delegate this to somebody I call”, without actually knowing precisely what you're calling
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh okey >:
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: my idea is for a garbage collected, statically typed assembly language
<alexgordon> instead of writing functions, you write instructions
<alexgordon> an instruction is like a function (it's statically typed) but you can jump out of it
<alexgordon> which means that all the usual asm instructions are on an equal footing with user defined functions
<ELLIOTTCABLE> none of this makes any sense to me
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *why*
<alexgordon> ok because in most programming languages except functional languages theres a really sharp divide between control flow and operations
* ELLIOTTCABLE eyebrows
* ELLIOTTCABLE points at Paws
<alexgordon> lol
<alexgordon> e.g. you can't write a "break;" function, because "break;" is something that jumps
<alexgordon> and this is really sad because conditional jumps are like the definition of a turing machine
<alexgordon> so I want to unify the "control flow bits" like if, break, continue, while, with the operations like + * - log() map() etc
* ELLIOTTCABLE sips scotch
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that's a good goal
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't get the "assembly" bit
<alexgordon> well I'm just not interested in syntax with this :P
* ELLIOTTCABLE eyeroll
<ELLIOTTCABLE> use s-exprs or some shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> copy paws' non-syntax
<ELLIOTTCABLE> assembly tho whut
<alexgordon> well it's an imperative language
<alexgordon> actually the reason I started this is because I was trying to design a language for artificial intelligence
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ur mom's an artificial intelligence
<alexgordon> maybe I should start from the beginning
<alexgordon> at some point we will have the singularity right? which I'm defining as the point at which computers can write code better than humans and construct ever better AIs in a positive feedback loop
<ELLIOTTCABLE> noooo
<alexgordon> but if a computer was writing code, what language would it write code _in_?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> i'm too full of inidian
<ELLIOTTCABLE> (and not full enough of scotch)
<alexgordon> go sit on the toilet then
<alexgordon> so I started trying to design a language for an AI to use
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no
<ELLIOTTCABLE> stopppp
<ELLIOTTCABLE> talk to me about dogs
<ELLIOTTCABLE> u wan se dog
<alexgordon> I don't have a dog
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ?? /?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> WHAT
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ALEX GORDON
<ELLIOTTCABLE> U R GIANT CAT
<ELLIOTTCABLE> U MUST HAV COGDOG
<alexgordon> lmao
<alexgordon> COCKDOG?
<alexgordon> maybe I shouldn't google that
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -g cockdog
<alexgordon> -34 cockdog
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -34 cockdog
<alexgordon> :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE> this test won't pass
<ELLIOTTCABLE> i can't figure out
<ELLIOTTCABLE> i am so bad @ debuger
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> jfhbrook_!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> someone lives mby?
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<gnomon> ELLIOTTCABLE, congratulations on KL4JC!!
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<jfhbrook_> ELLIOTTCABLE: hmm?
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> gnomon: :3
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gnomon: get licensed! or are you already and I forgot
<gnomon> ELLIOTTCABLE, I am not yet, no. I keep meaning to but my life is very short on time to spend on self-actualization projects.
<gnomon> ELLIOTTCABLE, but it's on The List(tm)!
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> ahhah well technician is *violently* easy
<ELLIOTTCABLE> like literally: set aside one whole Saturday from other *learning* projects
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and listen to the same audiobook I just lent incomprehensibly
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you can drive around / run errands / do house projects while listening, it's very having-a-life compatible
* gnomon sighs wistfully
* gnomon scans down the list of Saturdays dedicated to other learning projects
<gnomon> Oh, for the days, for those lovely days.
<gnomon> Seriously though, I've tried the audiobook thing. Continuous partial attention and I are not friends. I'm primarily a kinaesthetic learner with some visual thrown in. Audio stimulus is basically background noise for me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I generally agree
<gnomon> And I know I don't need to read and internalize the whole AARL handbook to pass the technician license, but I'm really enjoying (slowly) getting through it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm saying, like, *specifically* this book is built to cater to this :P
<jfhbrook> aarl?
<gnomon> heh
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ARRL*
<gnomon> derp
<ELLIOTTCABLE> American Relay Radio League
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -g aril @ jfhbrook
<gnomon> jfhbrook, the sound you make when accidentally putting a few too many M&Ms in your gaping maw at one time.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “read the damn topic”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “go google this”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I love how bot commands are now *you* commands
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “think of a previous funny thing that happened in this channel, remember it for a moment, laugh out loud, then return to what you were doing”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ~aaaaahrl~
<jfhbrook> what, did you break your bot?
<gnomon> arrghrgrhgrhgrhl
<ELLIOTTCABLE> bot's dead long live bot etc etc
<ELLIOTTCABLE> idk i'm too lazy to go fix his home i think he's trapped in there but whatever
<ELLIOTTCABLE> BOTS DON'T HAVE FEELINGS OKAY, DON'T JUDGE ME
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