<ELLIOTTCABLE>
brixen: I have a similar plan for ‘nothingness.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
after some long thought, years back, I arrived at a plan for three conceptual kinds of ‘nothingness’, two of which needed to be blessed by the design/VM, and the third of which could be dispensed with because it's implementable li side
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
libside*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and although I'm deeply involved in Shit In Real Life rn and can't read that article, ‘traceable nullaries’ does seem to nail the purpose of one of those two.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
convergent design evolution. (=
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<brixen>
ELLIOTTCABLE: so, in the Rubinius Ruby core library, we introduced 'undefined' because 'nil' was insufficient
<brixen>
Ruby APIs use nil as a sentinel, so there's no longer a thing to actually denote "nothingness"
<brixen>
if you are disciplined, you don't need nil and 'undefined' (or something)
<brixen>
but there's precious little discipline in Ruby :p
<brixen>
I'll be posting about 'nil Is Not NULL, And Other Tales' next week, I'll link you
<brixen>
and good luck with studenting, sounds exciting
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
brixen: “12:24 PM <brixen> or do we talk at ELLIOTTCABLE?” wat
<brixen>
haha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but yeah I'm not really available to talk tech for a while. I'm … swamped, stressed, v. unhappy
<brixen>
oh nooooos
<brixen>
get happy, there's no time to waste!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol hello #ELLIOTTCABLE_FRANS. sorry I've been so out of contact for a few days, Rurik especially
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
brixen: ‘sentinel’ define
<brixen>
a "value" that denotes a marker of some sort
<brixen>
eg foo(a=nil); end
<brixen>
foo() => a == nil
<brixen>
but there are API's in Ruby where foo(nil) is legit
<brixen>
then you can't distinguish between foo(), foo(nil) :'(
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
brixen: also, what's that second tweet. link is ... long,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
tl'dr me?
<brixen>
much saddness ensues
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ah yes
<brixen>
s/saddness/sadness/ also
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
sentinel is one of the three forms/usages for various forms of nothingness that my research had yielded
<brixen>
ELLIOTTCABLE: that 2nd tweet is the text of a Byte magazine from '85!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
basically ‘send this API undefined, that causes particular behaviour’
<brixen>
I read that thing and it was one of my young, transformative moments
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or ‘if this API “returns” undefined, it means particular behaviour happened”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nothingness-as-signal
<brixen>
I read about stuff like Prolog, FP and "executable specifications" and I wanted to make the world better
<brixen>
30 yrs later I've failed and mostly just write shell in some scripting language called Ruby :p
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
didn't see any definition of ‘executable specifications’ in the link
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
didn't bother command-F'ing, though, so, like, lol.
<purr>
lol
<brixen>
there's epub available
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'll pinboard it nnods
<brixen>
the text must be from some OCR process, it's pretty messy
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh I hate that I have no emoticon or emoji for ‘nodding’
<brixen>
heh
<brixen>
*nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
all of mine are aliased to, like, sshrug or ccommand or ttherefore
<brixen>
ELLIOTTCABLE: well, good luck and hope more happiness shines on your day
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and I type nnods *reflexively*, always assuming, for years, that it expands to a corresponding equivalent to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<brixen>
I'm going to fix a garbage collector
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<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE, ec: hi
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: hallo fren
<alexgordon>
fran? nope alex
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: friend*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh I need to pee but I dunwanna get up
<alexgordon>
just go
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh alexgordon be my friend I've had a fucking horrible month
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
academics is a clusterfuck
<alexgordon>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so whitequark tells me I can't be a programmer until I've been to school
<alexgordon>
oh yeah?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(brutal and slightly-misleading summary, but, accurate enough imo)
<alexgordon>
aren't you already a programmer?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and like sickeningly, I agree with him, in a way
<alexgordon>
some serious retrocausality there
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so sure, I decide, I'll dump the 100k or whatever, because I *do* want some of these courses.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: what you need is discipline
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
CS 481 – Artificial Intelligence: Language Understanding
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gimmie
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
CS 451 – Intro to Distributed Computing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gimmie
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
CS 440 – Programming Languages and Translators
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gimmie
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so on and so forth
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so I apply to a few schools, mostly shitty ones, because I have this terrible academic record haunting me
<alexgordon>
I dunno if you will actually need any of the stuff you learn there, but the act of having to do what other people tell you to might help
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(I literally have twice as many F's as A/B/C/D's in my transcript; and twice as many medical withdrawls as *that*. It's Really Bad™. I fucked up hard as a youth.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I got into a mediocre-but-not-actually-terrible school, Illinois Tech
gkatsev_ is now known as gkatsev
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
got more and more excited for the whole thing as time went on
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gkatsev: o7!
<alexgordon>
I have only ever done a single programming course, introduction to java
<gkatsev>
hi
<purr>
gkatsev: hi!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
anyway
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so here's my last month:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- I complete my application late, but not *horribly* late. A month and a half before classes start, or so.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- Get no reply. Wait. Get no reply. Wait. Get no reply. Wait.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- A day before the admissions office closes for Christmas, I get a form e-mail saying something along the lines of ‘Hi <student>! We see you still haven't completed your application, but there's still time!’
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I flip, I e-mail them, I'm like, wtf, I finished this a month ago;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
turns out they misplaced my transcripts.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- They apologize profusely and *actually* start to review my application, but shut down for the holidays immediately thereafter.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- I finally get the e-mail *middle of last week*: ‘yay you've been accepted into Illinois Tech!’
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
great, beautiful, yay, except, CLASSES START ON FUCKING MONDAY.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- I dive head-first into trying to get everything arranged in the, like, five days I have before classes start. It's too late to sign up for orientation (which started the day after I was admitted); I show up anyway, and the nice people there in person just let me tag along due to Circumstances.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- When you're admitted, you're supposed to make a monetary deposit (nobody tells me this), before you get told who your advisor is, and before they evaluate your transfer-credit to see which credits you get to keep (!?!?). I didn't find that out, or make the deposit, until yesterday;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- ... and when I make that deposit, I immediately get an e-mail telling me who my advisor is (phew), and that “I have no accepted transfer credits.”
<alexgordon>
this is making me sweat just reading it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, they're wiping out my (admittedly terrible) academic history *entirely*, even the classes I passed.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- I flip out, ditch out on the second day of orientation (it's all like, useless info, anyway; stuff oriented towards 18-year-olds coming into college for the first time, or 20-year-olds transferring after community college ...), go home, and literally have like, a breakdown in my parking garage
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there's no. fucking. goddamn. *way*. I am going to sit through Calc I for the *seventh time in my life*. (I failed it 5 times, including once as an AP class in highs-school, before taking it *completely alone* in one academic semester, and scraping by with a C+.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and there's definitely absolutely no fucking way I'm sitting through How To Make Objects in Java!!1! 101 again, nor algorithms and fucking data-structures (I know what a linked-list is, thx, I'm writing a fucking programming language, plz go 'way)
<alexgordon>
but but it's fun
<alexgordon>
I got 96% on introduction to java
<alexgordon>
dunno what happened to the other 4
<pikajude>
they went to someone else
<alexgordon>
:D
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
anyway. I very nearly gave up right there, because while there's some flavours of patience I've gained in the six years since my first failures in school, I *definitely* did not gain the patience to spend the next year of my life working through basic GenEds at twenty-six fucking years old, in classrooms of 18-year-olds
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- meanwhile, having e-mailed my advisor to introduce myself and shit and ask what my next steps are, over four e-mail exchanges, he writes a total of *sixteen* *fucking* *words*, with zero uppercase characters or punctuation.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
one reply was literally just one word, the word ‘email’, sent in an email.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and this guy has the power to make the entire academic experience for me over the next year either hellish or very rewarding.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
needless to say, I am not encouraged.
<alexgordon>
so...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(This is the person I *desperately* need the support of, to, say, place out of the boring classes that *I will not succeed* in, because I already know the material; the one who can help me get the credit-not-transferring situation remedied somehow; the one who's theoretically supposed to put me in touch with the instructors of the higher-level classes, the
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*humans* whom I can convinced that, yes, I do belong in category-theoretic classes, not basic systems programming ...)
<alexgordon>
what happened in the end?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
okay. yesterday.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there is no end
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's still going on
<alexgordon>
goddammit elliott
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm freaking out and stressed as shit and needed a break to rant, so that's what i'm doing right now :P
<alexgordon>
every story has a beginning, a middle and an end
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- this morning I woke up to a literal *identical* copy of yesterday's email, with the section on transfer-credits replaced: huge relief, they changed their minds (I guess? or something?), and I have now been awarded ~20 transfer credits, over five 100-level courses. Still way less than I'd hoped for, but I'm no longer, like, starving.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so that put me in a really good mood, this semester is finally looking *approachable*, if still way-less-than-ideal (low-level classes I'm going to have trouble focusing in; being way older than eeeeeeeverybody; GenEds I have absolutely zero interest whatsoever in at 26 years old ... but at least it's not going to include English 101 or some shit.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- but now I've e-mailed him for some clarifications on some of this, and most especially whether I can place out of things slash how I do so, and *he hasn't replied*; and I'm suddenly afraid he's out of the office all weekend
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I cannot register for classes without his approval / say-so, and if he's out of the office until Monday ... when classes start ... I am so royally fucked.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I dunno how it works, but can't you just go to the classes you want to
<alexgordon>
then get all the formalities sorted out later
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
- also, i'm a little fuzzy on the specifics, but it seems that a bunch of financial-aid / scholarship stuff locks in on Monday when classes start; and I have to be *registered as a full-time student* (that is, registered for 12+ credit-hours of classes) by then, or I lose out on basically all financial aid
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
making this entire endeavour many times as expensive, and many times as worthless. |=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: uh, pretty sure no? lol. need to be registered to attend, very sure.
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you may "need" to be, but will anybody check?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, showing up to a class that I'm not registered for won't be very helpful: the point here is that I can't know *what classes I can get into* until he responds to me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, I can maybe physically show up to day one of a 400-level class I *want* to take, but I've no fucking clue if I'll be able to 1. place out of the prerequisites, or 2. if it would be counted towards my degree if I *did* take it this semester, even assuming I could get in, or 3. if there's any room in the class available, or, any of a dozen other things
<alexgordon>
usually you can just walk in, if anybody makes a fuss you can explain the situation... I dunno what american colleges are like, maybe they have bouncers xD
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like. It's Complicated™. I need my advisor. And so far, he seems to either be an asshat, or to be *completely* swamped by the start of semester, and has no time to help me solve my serious problems.
<gkatsev>
talk to the professor ahead of time. They're probably let you sit in
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like it's not physically attending the class I'm worried about here. I could have *audited* any classes I wanted, including 400-level and up, without prereqs, at full price, without even applying to the school
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
NDSS, Non-Degree-Seeking Student, status. its a normal thing over here.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but there's no financial aid for that, and all of the time is basically wasted, because those classes can never count towards credits *anywhere* for *any degree* at *any school*: you're literally doing it for the knowledge, with no option of later changing your mind and asking for a piece of paper for that knowledge.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(I seriously considered that route: The knowledge I *want* is not at this small technical school. What I *really need*/want, is a graduate-level education at NU, Northwestern, the local Big Name University; but getting in there as a transfer student is *impossible*.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(For a short while I considered saying ‘fuck the degree,’ and just auditing a few years' worth of classes at NU, a school I definitely could not have gotten into as a degree-seeking student.)
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: When in #ELLIOTTCABLE, laugh as the #ELLIOTTCABL…er…IANS. hat-hat-hat.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah I dunno what to suggest really, the thing with college is that you have to submit yourself to a higher power (in this case an impenetrable bureaucracy)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
don't need suggestions, just, emotional support, idk
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm rich, white, privileged, male, these problems *will* solve themselves. I have faith in my privilege. :P
<alexgordon>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
<alexgordon>
lmao
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's just causing me immense stress in the period between when I decide they're problems, and when everything magically fixes itself and gets out of my way.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*shrugs*
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's sleeting so disgustingly outside. I'm at Starbucks, and don't want to brave the weather to get home, yet.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so disgusting.
<glowcoil>
hi
<purr>
glowcoil: hi!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: --^
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: go forth and brave elliott's problems
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: the financial aid thing does sound like a problem but like
<pikajude>
oh man, i love starbucks in bad weather
<pikajude>
that's some good shit
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you can definitely still be figuring out getting into/out of classes until like 2 weeks into the semester or something most likely
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: I've just got a mountain of stress over it, basically
<glowcoil>
nod
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
most of it is just: I'm Hella Fucking Insecure about my ability to do well here
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, i'm older and write lots of code and all that other shit, but ... I have a proven track-record of failing out of school. So obviously, I'm right on the knife-edge of having convinced myself that I might succeed at this.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
every little thing that goes wrong cause me to teeter back towards giving up, because I'm so *nearly* convinced that there's no point trying.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: but that's the thing, isn't it? you have the advantage of knowing the material already
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“I'm going to be put in low-level classes that won't engage me, and I'll fail out.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“I'll get into the higher-level classes, but all of this clusterfuck will lose me the first two weeks of classes, I'll miss important material, and I'll be behind.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“I'll get into the classes I need, and do okay, but I won't get a *4.0* because I got in late; and without a 4.0, I can't convince NU I'm a worthwhile student, and so there's no point in going to this shitty school at all.”
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: what you need to confront is being able to operate in an environment where people are telling you what to do, you don't have control over the outcome, and maybe criticising you for bogus reasons
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“I'll get in, and push through all this, and get the classes that engage me, and pull a fucking 4.0, because I'm a motivated older student and have the will-to-suceed of a freight-train rn; but none of it will matter because NU takes literally *fourteen* transfer-students a year.”
<alexgordon>
in other words, you need to learn how to get assfucked
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: yeah, kinda, like, on that page. I don't disagree.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
re: knowing the material already ... I don't know why people think that's an advantage? Does everybody else just learn differently than me, or have you never actually *experienced* that, or,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't fathom why somebody would think going into four months of lecturing and testing on *something you've already learned about and thus lost all interest in*, will be a positive, easy, or in-any-way-rewarding experience |=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Like, I had this experience the Very Hard Way with calculus; this experience alone is basically what caused me to fail out of college four fucking times
<alexgordon>
because college is a game, it's not _real_
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I took calculus in high-school, enjoyed it, did well; but extenuating circumstances (agirllol) caused me to fail the A.P. test despite having done well in the actual class.
<purr>
agirllol
<alexgordon>
you have to get points, by following the rules
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Thus, no college credit, and I had to take it again: I failed, *horribly*. Like, got less than a 40% in the class.
<alexgordon>
there is no room for creativity, for innovation. Knowing the material means you're on easy mode
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
That happened over, and over, and over, because I couldn't focus, couldn't motivate myself to do the homework, and progressively (as time passed), couldn't recall the original material and even pass the tests (which are usually my strong suit in education.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it just got worse and worse and worse, and made me want to try less and less and less badly. |=
<alexgordon>
yeah see, overthinking
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Like, do other people actually pass classes they've taken before? Because I certainly did not.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wait did pikajude just respond to something somebody else said in the channel
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: I'm so proud omg
<pikajude>
that's only the 19th time
<alexgordon>
I really enjoyed introduction to java, fwiw
<alexgordon>
it was relaxing to do something with no stress of failure
<Rurik>
no worries ELLIOTTCABLE
<Rurik>
I got a fantastic idea that I gotta implement
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: :D awesome
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: I'm still dragging you into PLT later. kicking and screaming if necessary. :3
<Rurik>
sure
<pikajude>
into the Plut
<alexgordon>
-onium
* ELLIOTTCABLE
-learn onium = kicking and screaming.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-learn onium = kicking and screaming.
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Learned `onium`.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
godamnit irccloud
<pikajude>
-onium
<purr>
pikajude: kicking and screaming.
<pikajude>
i think every purr factoid should just be that
<alexgordon>
onium roting
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-random
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
why is there no random-factoid feature
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
smebody go write it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-what
<purr>
<incomprehensibly> gqbrielle: I mean the specific mountain goats song
<pikajude>
-what
<purr>
<audy> and she thinks the Terminal is for talking about boobs and what-not
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-what
<purr>
<katlogic> Well, if you're trying to create answer to the meaning of life the universe and everything, obviously tracing gc then
<pikajude>
the terminal is for talking about boobs
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
3:11 PM <@purr> <audy> and she thinks the Terminal is for talking about boobs and what-not
<alexgordon>
> Hi, Im a 20 something year old Chef who worked at Disney World. So much you see here might reflect that. :D Years of my life have been (waisted) reading and watching anime and basically im a nerd, but hey what can I do.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: YOU KEPT THAT QUIET
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kept what quiet
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you're a chef who worked at disney world
<jfhbrook>
[16:18] < alexgordon> you can take the man out of alaska, and apparently you can take the alaska out of the man too
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
OH
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
WAIT
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
JFHBROOK
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
YOU'RE FROM ALASKA
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
RIGHT?
<jfhbrook>
RIGHT
<alexgordon>
you just got that?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
THAT'S A THING I KEEP FORGETTING AND YOU KEEP REMINDING ME OF
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
WELL I JUST DID IT AGAIN LOL OOPS
<purr>
LOL
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: what part? I forget
<jfhbrook>
ELLIOTTCABLE: talkeetna, but I went to college in fbx
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jane: also omg hi omg how's life omg what's up
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you still live in the terrible part of California? ;)
<jane>
lol
<jane>
um i dont remember where we last left off
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: jeeeesus
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you're one of the REAL alaskans
<alexgordon>
jane: two admins is more than I can handle
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jane: *shug* start from the start
<jane>
i.. got married, quit programming, bought a restaurant, applying to med schools this year..
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
O_O
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
okay yeah I missed a *lot* O_O
<jane>
haha
<jfhbrook>
you ragequit computers? my dream!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
start with married, then restaurant
<jfhbrook>
idk about the restaurant though
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
quitting programming is obv.
<jane>
i married eridius
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that just means ur a Good Adult
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what
<jane>
bought a restaurant with my mom because she didnt wanna retire
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I think last I'd heard you two had Very Broken Up and hated eachother maybe?
<jane>
quit programming cuz i decided to med school and if med school doesnt work out then i go back to programming
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: no that was eridius and mikeash
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
how old are you, again?
<jane>
im 50
<jane>
:P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol no
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I ask because I met a chick at orientation day-before-yesterday who quit design to go back to school premed
<jfhbrook>
I don't know my backup plan
<jfhbrook>
I think I'm too far out to get back into mech eng
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
she's 30, and was the only other ‘returning student’ (lol u know, ≥24yo) in my orientation group
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so we kinda bonded over being older than all of the kids :x
<jfhbrook>
makes sense ELLIOTTCABLE
<jane>
lol oh god :( well im definitely not 24. although im definitely not 30 either
<jane>
anyway christ if the married part was new then i havent talked to you in like two+ years
<jane>
cuz our second anniversary is coming up
<jfhbrook>
I think my backup plan might seriously be growing and selling weed
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“well im definitely not 24. although im definitely not 30 either” wait I don't know what that means
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so you're still young, then? or wait, does that imply you're like way over 30, I can't tell
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
NOT MY BUSINESS
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
AAAAAANYWAY
<jane>
somewhere between 24 and 30 :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: ... lollll
<purr>
lollll
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jane: I thought you were older than me, for some reason. I mean, I'm in there too, but I'd always thought you and eridius and all were like, a decade ahead of me.
<jane>
x.x
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
maybe it's just 'cuz you were Professional Programmers when I was formative.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like alexgordon.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: LOL
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: jane knows how old I am now
<jane>
i thought we were the same age
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I am younger than jane
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: what, that makes you my age
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gtfo, we all know you're 40
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-find alexg
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Found: alexgordon, darkf, beltbuckle, you’re next, and laws
<alexgordon>
:(
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-laws
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: <+alexgordon> rewriting this haskell code in PHP <+alexgordon> I must be violating some kind of law of nature
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-beltbuckle
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: WE NEED TO GET ALEXGORDON THAT GOLD “AG” BELTBUCKLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(still true)
<alexgordon>
what the hell was I doing to rewrite haskell code in PHP?!?!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I think he's actually at risk to become an anticapitalist terrorist
<alexgordon>
is darkf the one who I banned?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“Brian Shirai convicted in bombing of Oracle headquarters, Thursday” — a real headline I expect to read someday
<alexgordon>
I only banned one person in the history of this channel, think it was darkf
<gq>
oh probably
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: pretty sure you once banned *everybody*, actually
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-kick alexgordon
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-kick everybody
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-ban everybody
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk how to invoke it but it was a thing
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: lol I'm never going to live that down
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nope.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: it'll help if you quit leaving for extended periods of time. ;)
<brixen>
ELLIOTTCABLE: STOP, NSA
<brixen>
damn man
<brixen>
:p
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
we don't like ... deserters ... 'round these parts. *threatening look*
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I just forget to launch textual
<alexgordon>
I have it on Open at Login now though
<brixen>
the only thing I'm "bombing" at Oracle headquarters is a blog post about how they waste millions on tens of thousands of lines of Java in Truffle
<Rurik>
darkf? from the learnprogramming channel?
<brixen>
but it's going to be "One VM to Rule Them All"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: … oh my god you know of him?
<Rurik>
yes
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
er, them
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: they're literally the worst person ever to have been in this channel
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and that includes that one time with the furry troll
<Rurik>
He is very active in @learnprogramming
<Rurik>
#
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: stay away, stay far away
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
:P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm like trembvling
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
trembling
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
help somebody calm me down
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“Can you send me some programming samples? Any language”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
— advisor
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
this is my moment, this could be it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
MOMENT OF TRUTH
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
COULD MY PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE GET ME OUT OF HORRIBLE COURSES I DON'T WANT TO TAKE
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: answer: no.
<jfhbrook>
it might get you past a 200 level course or so
<jfhbrook>
maybe?
<jfhbrook>
I had a friend get to go from 200 to 201
<jfhbrook>
I get irrationally upset when I see something with too much jargon, sorry
<alexgordon>
too much? there's not enough there
<alexgordon>
I can almost understand some of the words
* ELLIOTTCABLE
breathes deeply
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
god I write such bad code
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but like, I hope it shows I'm skilled enough to place into more advanced classes, even if it's dark and evil and should be put through the incinerator at the first opportunity? :x
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: there's only three 100-level programming courses, and only four 200-level, all of which are basically the same thing for different majors
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so usual students with NO programming experience go (100 Introduction to The Field), then (201 Basics of OO) and (202 Basics of OO Part 2)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and then are immediately onwards to the meaty stuff at the 300-level
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and many students with *some* experience don't need 100-level at all, and take 203 instead of 201/202, which is just an accelerated / combined Java/OO course.
<jfhbrook>
aha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so all I want out of life is 1. to place out of 203 and start at the 300-level, even if the 300-level is still basic af to me (data structures and shit ... but at least it's theory, not Learn This Syntax and Type These Words)
<jfhbrook>
that'd be cool if you could jump into 203
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and 2. to NOT TAKE MATH 151 AGAIN
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
WILL LITERALLY SHOOT MYSELF IF I GET TOLD TO TAKE CALC 1 AGAIN
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
LITERALLY
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: what is so difficult about calc 1?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
BEYOND SHADOW. OF. DOUBT.
<jfhbrook>
oh, except you already know oop and I think anyone can write java
<jfhbrook>
idk about *good* java, like I haven't figured out how to learn that one
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: it's not just that it's boring and Java is bad; I literally *already* sat through the OO-introduction-to-Java course, before, and didn't fail it
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: thank god you didn't have to do real analysis
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, I have a C on my transcript; I suspect they didn't accept it (despite accepting C's in other classes) because they have higher standards for transcribing classes along the major's course list
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but hey! my previously-thought-asshat advisor asked for example code! which is way, way, way, way more than I expected
<jfhbrook>
I see
<jfhbrook>
so what's the most relevant code you can share?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
turns out it was case 2, I think; he's just swamped, not incompetent. Now I hope I'm impressive enough to get special dispensation, I guess?
<jfhbrook>
yeah, good luck!
<jfhbrook>
maybe share a few examples
<jfhbrook>
especially if you have one that's really relevant to 203 despite not being your best work
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm trying so hard to be brief w/ this guy
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I tend towards long-form prosody, very … verbose
<jfhbrook>
lol
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and I have so much trouble turning it off :P
<jfhbrook>
"fly safe!"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol shush
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: but seriously what can be so hard about calc 1? limits, differentiation/integration of polynomials no?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: like, literally, it's not the material; *I* just have a borderline learning-disability when it comes to exerting effort when I'm not actively learning.
<alexgordon>
I presume calc 1 is like AS level
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have no trouble passing tests or acing assignments/projects when *that involves studying*
<jfhbrook>
calculus is like actually handy though
<jfhbrook>
it explains so much about the world and is immediately applicable to interesting problems
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but as soon as I lose that feeling of accomplishment, advancement, self-improvement, I lose *any* self-control or ability to self-motivate
<jfhbrook>
look at it through the lens of computers especially, you can implement some really interesting algorithms with a solid understanding of calculus and linear algebra
<jfhbrook>
that's how I got into programming
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
homework doesn't get done, *no* amount of studying will help me get high completion on tests (literally, like, i can study for twelve hours over a couple days before a test, and still fail it ... if that studying is stuff I already know.)
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: well.. there's your problem :P
<alexgordon>
but you don't _need_ to study for calc 1
<alexgordon>
it's so god damn easy
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: ... that's precisely what I spent like an hour explaining about :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm very aware it's a problem. That's my point.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: see? I love math.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if I do well for the first two semesters or so here, I'm going to apply for a co-terminal BS-CS and MS-AM
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(bachelor's compsci, master's maths, finishing both in four years)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, 3/4rs of the reason I'm going is because I'm fucking fascinated by everything I know so far about category theory / graph theory / type theory.
<jfhbrook>
so ELLIOTTCABLE do you like already know calc 1?
<jfhbrook>
I think I assumed that you'd only have trouble sitting through calc 1 if you had a reason to take it in the first place
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(I still think functional programming languages are *terrible*. Don't mistake “this is so cool” for “any fucking grounded person would even for a second believe this is in any way useful to anybody.”)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-diaptoval
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: diaptoval, diaptoval forever
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: huh? rephrase?
<jfhbrook>
so it sounds like you don't want to sit through calc 1. Is this because you already know the material? Or because you have a hard time learning the material?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
... I have a hard time passing when I've already learned the material once before.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Like, idk how else to explain it ... it's just that I've had this experience over and over in my youth.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean there's definitely a level on which I'm hopeful that's changed with age; but I also don't want to count on that?
<jfhbrook>
okay, so you might be able to test out, yeah?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have ~12 F's and W's as data-points saying “don't try this again.”
<alexgordon>
^ just write that on your hand or something
<jfhbrook>
nah, I had a hard time with stats 300 for a really similar reason
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
And zero data-points, and a soft suspicion, that “maybe it'll be fine this time.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
y'know?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, I don't want to risk it if there's any chance whatsoever of me avoiding taking it, and *risking* failing again.
<jfhbrook>
well, part of it is just that stats has this sudden steep learning curve thing, where everything makes sense but suddenly a problem ends up being surprisingly tricky to get correct
<jfhbrook>
but a lot of it was because I'd seen all the material before, just not in an official capacity
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
awit
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wait
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I got a reply, and I think he just ok'd me for 300-levels with no further hullabaloo?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
uh, maybe?
<jfhbrook>
^5
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, he just sent me a list of courses with no commentary; and the PIN number I need to use on the online system to register for courses
<alexgordon>
jfhbrook: 5x^4
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like I can't tell if he's advising me to *try* to place out of the pre-reqs, or if he just gave me permission … or ...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
can't tell if get hopes up HALP
<jfhbrook>
uhh, send an email asking for clarification?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm afraid to lol
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm just going to pretend I mis-understood; going to use the PIN he just sent me to register for those classes, and then show up in class.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If they ask about the prereqs, I'll say something about the advisor telling me to do this. :P
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<jane>
ELLIOTTCABLE: brilliant.org
<jane>
khan academy also has practice problems
<jfhbrook>
I think you're safe ELLIOTTCABLE I can't really imaging how a list of classes and a pin could mean anything other than "sign up for these classes"
<jfhbrook>
you said your advisor's overworked, that probably means he was just like, here these dun done
<jane>
oh, i thought KA had practice problems. maybe not. i was using it for a little mcat prep
<jfhbrook>
I kinda wanna take an algirothms course
<jfhbrook>
but I also feel like I should be self-motivated enough to borrow an algorithms book and work through it myself
<jfhbrook>
and that if I'm not able to do that, I'm probably also not ready to dedicate the time to a course either
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<LucIenn>
I swear this is the one I typed in last time
<LucIenn>
Anyways hi
<alexgordon>
hi LucIenn whoever you are
<LucIenn>
A Twitter peep
<LucIenn>
Hiya
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<Rurik>
ELLIOTTCABLE, download Soviet books
<Rurik>
Lots of practice problems
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hahaha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
LucIenn!
<LucIenn>
Hiyaa
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
LucIenn: did you type it with the wrong number of L's and T's?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
remember: 4 L's and 2 T's, just like the answer to life / universe / everything