sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<ZmnSCPxj>
Good morning waxwing, ZmnSCPxj is never gone, but has many eyes
<ZmnSCPxj>
You are right, I misremembered Spillman channels
<ZmnSCPxj>
There is an intermediate stage between Spillman channels and the full Decker-Wattenhofer invalidation trees, where a CSV is used
<ZmnSCPxj>
Or rather decrementing `nSequence` is used
<ZmnSCPxj>
to allow a bidirectional channel with a limited number of updates
<ZmnSCPxj>
The bidirectional channel has no time-based lifetime, but has a lifetime based on maximum number of updates
<ZmnSCPxj>
unlike Spillman channels which have a maximum lifetime and are unidirectional
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<ZmnSCPxj>
You have a funding transaction, a trigger transaction, and a settlement transaction
<ZmnSCPxj>
The settlement tranasction is the one which is updated each time with a decrementing `nSequence`
<ZmnSCPxj>
The first settlement is always the maximum `nSequence` you support
<ZmnSCPxj>
and each update has a new settlement transaction signed by both parties that has a lower `nSequence` then previous
<ZmnSCPxj>
The smallest `nSequence` is the one that can get onchain, being able to successfully spend the trigger transaction before any other versions of the settlement transaction
<ZmnSCPxj>
thus the latest state is the one that is published onchain
<ZmnSCPxj>
Invalidation trees just add more `nSequence`-encumbered transactions between the trigger transaction and the settlement transaction
<ZmnSCPxj>
When the settlement transaction reaches its minimum `nSequence`, we just decrement the previous invalidation tree transaction `nSequence` and reset the settlment transaction to maximum `nSequence`
<ZmnSCPxj>
and so on
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<adlai>
waxwing: any chance you were undercover in tel aviv the other week? i swear i saw your body double, speaking fluent hebrew and eating falafel like a boss
<adlai>
oops, wrong channel. which way is "practical ideas with regards to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development"?
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<adlai>
fwiw, bramc did an excellent bramc impression yesterday, but i'm still unconvinced that the whole timespace / volthoure dichotomy is anything but a reddest herring in the whalepool.
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* waxwing
to mossad handler: cover is blown, abort.