sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<bitcoin-wizards>
someone here?
<sipa>
nope
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<luke-jr>
lol
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<Eliel>
s2x people appear to be on the verge of discovering a way to hard fork, with a simple miner majority that completely disables the legacy chain and thus forces every node operator to decide whether to migrate to their hard fork or to create their own with a new mining algo to continue with the old rules. https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/issues/135
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<Eliel>
It's still missing a crucial element though. As to what that is, I'm still a little uncertain if I want to say it aloud or not.
<Eliel>
although, I think most people here won't need to hear it from me.
<Eliel>
the approach described in the ticket requires 75+% of mining power to work. Not just simple majority.
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<andytoshi>
sigh, i suppose it was a matter of time before they discovered this, IIRC it has been mentioned on the ML in some form or another over the years
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<andytoshi>
actually as written this is pretty goofy, and importantly doesn't seem clear enough to get wide adoption. but that's all that i'll say about it.
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<kanzure>
it wasn't just posted on the mailing list, it was widely broadcasted everywhere (the method that luke-jr was thinking about? heck it was on bitcoinhardforkresearch.github.io or whatever)
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<andytoshi>
oh lol, the cat is much further out of the bag than i remembered
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<esotericnonsense>
it's unclear to me that this is really anything new other than a more automated way of performing a specific 51% attack
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<esotericnonsense>
it seems trivially obvious to me that a cartel with 51% of the current hashpower of any chain can emptyblock, re-org, pad with fake transactions, whatever
<esotericnonsense>
the interesting thing is how the economic incentives work in that case because if it's kept up then selling coins on one side is impossible and you're relying on being able to strong-arm the entirety of the value over to the non-broken chain
<esotericnonsense>
(otherwise you've pulled off your 'fork' but you have far lower revenue on your lower value chain regardless of whether the other one exists or not)
<esotericnonsense>
I too can see better ways of doing it, but also various cat-and-mouse style mitigations
<Eliel>
yes, it's possible to fight against but it does remove the passive participant drag effect from the picture. You either pick a side or you don't have a usable system.
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<Eliel>
Of course, it doesn't prevent a split in the case that a part of the community is dead set against the changes.
<Eliel>
However, it also makes the brand confusion potential blow up to another degree of severity.
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