#bitcoin-wizards on 2017-10-16 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

00:07 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:10 rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

00:10 belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:11 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:29 Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

00:30 Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:30 Belkaar has quit [Changing host]

00:30 Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:31 dnaleor has quit [Quit: Leaving]

00:58 dabura667 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

01:05 Ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

01:13 dabura667 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

01:13 dabura667_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

01:28 airbreather_ is now known as airbreather

01:51 meshcollider has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

02:03 meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:04 harrymm_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:08 harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

02:10 rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

02:31 deusexbeer has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]

02:36 Cory has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

02:38 BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

02:40 Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

02:41 Cory has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:44 Noldorin has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]

02:47 BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:53 BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

02:57 Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

03:02 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

03:16 BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards

03:19 Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

04:00 legogris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

04:00 legogris has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:05 TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

04:05 TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:09 rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:10 TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

04:12 TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:15 vicenteH` has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:17 vicenteH has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

04:22 TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

04:22 TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:49 _whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards

05:04 mn3monic has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

05:10 _whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards

05:35 shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards

05:37 Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:24 trotski2000 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

06:24 CodeShark has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

06:24 surae has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

06:24 CryptoTraderClub has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

06:24 adam27 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

06:24 nejon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

06:25 wbnns has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

06:25 eragmus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

06:25 adams__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

06:26 adam27 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 eragmus has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 CodeShark has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 nejon has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 trotski2000 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 CryptoTraderClub has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 adams__ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 wbnns has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:26 nikivi has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds]

06:26 execute has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds]

06:27 rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

06:28 ecurrencyhodler_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:29 <ecurrencyhodler_> Hello

06:29 nikivi has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:29 <ecurrencyhodler_> Anyone understand confidential transactions?

06:29 <ecurrencyhodler_> have the basic principles, but am unsure of the exact step by step process.

06:31 <ecurrencyhodler_> For example, in Adams version, (the blind key + btc address + blindkey +amount) are lumped together and the base58check.

06:31 mn3monic has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:32 <ecurrencyhodler_> But in maxwells it appears to be separate: base58 check(blindkey + btc address) and base58 check(blindkey + amount)

06:34 <ecurrencyhodler_> Also, the blindkey in this section: base58 check(blindkey + amount)...is that derived from the receiving confidential address?

06:34 <sipa> amounts don't go into addresses in any implementation i've seen

06:35 <sipa> what document are you looking at?

06:35 <ecurrencyhodler_> Adams paper

06:36 <sipa> link?

06:36 <ecurrencyhodler_> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/FuodqVNc/Screen+Shot+2017-10-15+at+11.35.20+PM.png

06:36 <ecurrencyhodler_> Adam Gibson

06:36 <sipa> thah, waxwing

06:37 <sipa> i don't see amount

06:37 <ecurrencyhodler_> Isn’t that what the normal address data bytes is referring to?

06:39 <ecurrencyhodler_> https://github.com/AdamISZ/ConfidentialTransactionsDoc/blob/master/essayonCT.pdf

06:39 <ecurrencyhodler_> The whole thing

06:42 <sipa> no

06:43 <sipa> normal addresses don't contain amounts

06:43 <sipa> it contains whatever a normal address contains; a pubkey hash or a script hash

06:44 daszorz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:48 <ecurrencyhodler_> Okay cool

06:48 <ecurrencyhodler_> That’s what I was thinking

06:48 <ecurrencyhodler_> Ty

06:48 <ecurrencyhodler_> Do you know if the blindkey is taken from the receiving address?

06:53 <ecurrencyhodler_> I know that the blindkey is able to be derived from the confidential address. I’m just not sure whose blindkey is being shared. The receiver or the sender.

06:56 <sipa> the receiver

06:57 <sipa> the blinding key determines who can see the payment

06:59 BashCo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

07:10 JackH has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

07:11 jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

07:16 laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:17 <ecurrencyhodler_> Ah ic

07:17 <ecurrencyhodler_> That makes so much sense

07:18 <ecurrencyhodler_> Would you mind taking a look at a diagram I drew up?

07:20 <ecurrencyhodler_> If you’re on keybase I can share it through there! I just got it and wanna try it out. :-P

07:21 <ecurrencyhodler_> Btw ty vm @sipa you’ve been very helpful.

07:22 BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:23 JackH has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:25 AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:28 Aaronvan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

07:36 rusty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

07:37 tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

07:40 rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:10 rusty1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:10 rusty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

08:18 Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:21 meshcollider has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

08:22 surae has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:33 Yogh has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:39 intcat has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

08:47 intcat has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:03 Ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

09:24 vicenteH` is now known as vicenteH

09:30 meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:38 dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:45 JackH has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

09:45 leonidaz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

09:46 leonidaz0r has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:51 JackH has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:52 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:03 JackH has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

10:06 deusexbeer has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:06 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

10:12 tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:27 reallll has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:27 dnaleor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

10:28 belcher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

10:33 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:41 dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:45 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

11:14 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

11:26 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

11:55 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

11:55 roadcrap has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:05 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

12:29 rusty1 has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]

12:43 reallll has quit [Quit: Leaving]

12:46 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:51 dnaleor has quit [Quit: Leaving]

12:54 Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:58 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

13:00 meshcollider has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

13:06 dabura667_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

13:11 shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

13:26 JackH has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:27 Logicwax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

13:32 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:37 Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

13:42 <waxwing> i've been working on this, corrections/opinions would be welcome: https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/a5b3fcdd8de4575dbb8e5fba8a9bd88c

13:43 <waxwing> general idea is something like; with segwit, we can make pre-agree/sign sets of transactions, this is applicable to things like coinjoin, advantage would be reduced interactivity but also creating different patterns (if individual transactions don't have to preserve counterparties' balances)

13:43 <waxwing> probably strictly off-topic though :)

13:45 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

13:51 Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:02 dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:05 dnaleor has quit [Client Quit]

14:13 dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:13 dnaleor has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

14:45 Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

14:45 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:49 BashCo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

14:58 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

15:00 StopAndDecrypt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

15:01 daszorz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

15:05 jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:06 dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:08 StopAndDecrypt has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:15 BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:23 jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

15:25 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:38 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

15:57 Noldorin has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:58 wasi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

15:59 Anduck has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

15:59 wasi has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:59 Anduck has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:07 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:17 <bsm117532> waxwing: the "Pay to Timelock Signed Transaction" I proposed requires the segwit malleability fix and is very similar to what you're saying. https://blog.sldx.com/re-imagining-cold-storage-with-timelocks-1f293bfe421f

16:17 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

16:18 <bsm117532> Because it's essentially a chain of transactions held off chain and broadcast later.

16:19 <waxwing> bsm117532, right, thanks; it seemed natural that there might be other applications of this kind of thing, will take a read shortly.

16:20 <bsm117532> I also built a key management scheme that uses the same concepts, with pre-signed transactions held in escrow (to protect me from myself and my own key loss).

16:21 <bsm117532> When segwit took a long time to activate I had to rejigger it to handle malleability, which was exceedingly ugly.

16:24 jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:27 <waxwing> bsm117532, reading, so, the concept here is similar to what some people describe as 'covenants', is that true? although it seems some people have different ideas about what that is.

16:27 <bsm117532> Yes, very similar

16:28 Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:35 abpa has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:38 Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:39 anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

16:40 anon616 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:02 jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

17:09 jephalien_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

17:19 jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:20 punindented has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:52 abpa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

17:57 jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

17:59 jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:59 <ecurrencyhodler_> Hey, for confidential transactions, how does the hashed (blindkey1 + amount) input match the hashed (blindkey2 + amount) if blindkey are taken from the receiving address?

17:59 <ecurrencyhodler_> Or does the node decode it?

18:16 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:22 ossifrage has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:23 ossifrage has left #bitcoin-wizards ["Leaving"]

18:29 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

18:37 qwebirc932070 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:38 qwebirc976183 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:38 qwebirc976183 has quit [Client Quit]

18:38 qwebirc932070 has quit [Client Quit]

18:38 qwebirc293008 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:45 daszorz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:50 vicenteH` has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:51 vicenteH has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

18:52 vicenteH` is now known as vicenteH

18:57 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

19:12 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

19:12 Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

19:19 daszorz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

19:22 meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards

19:38 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

19:46 laurentmt has quit [Quit: laurentmt]

19:55 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

19:58 azhat has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:02 Noldorin has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]

20:03 trippysalmon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:03 Noldorin has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:13 trippysalmon has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:18 bsm117532 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]

20:19 bsm117532 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:19 anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:20 anon616 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:26 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:40 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

21:01 <victorSN> The amounts are only present in commitments using EC points, not in hashes (although they both result in seemingly random outputs).

21:01 <victorSN> Can you be more specific, do you mean two inputs, or an input and output? (if this doesn't belong in wizards, we can move to #sidechains-dev or a private conversation

21:09 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

21:17 Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

21:20 daszorz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

21:21 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

21:22 <ecurrencyhodler_> Input and outputs.

21:23 <ecurrencyhodler_> If the Ec points carry homomorphic properties, it’s easy enough to understand how they could be added together. I’m just not sure if the EC points would be th same if you change the blindkey

21:29 azhat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

22:01 mn3monic has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

22:04 Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

22:09 Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]

22:10 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:14 daszorz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

22:15 CheckDavid has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

22:16 echonaut1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

22:17 echonaut has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:18 alt0id has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

22:19 alt0id has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:19 coinsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:24 jephalien_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:55 rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

22:56 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:59 rmwb_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:59 rmwb_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:00 belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:00 rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

23:01 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:58 rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:58 rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards