sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<rajan123>
A large number of crypto ICOs are fake and most people can’t differentiate between a good one and a bad one. We believe we could solve this by tracking a variety of growth parameters (daily tracking on github stars, social mentions, blog mentions, algo verified twitter followers, algo-verified likes) of the project and assigning a growth score in the range of 1-100. Here’s the link to our experiment http://gscore.io
<rajan123>
I’d like feedback from the wizards in here if there exists a similar solution or can it work or any problems we’ll face?
<sipa>
that sounds like a way to measure how succesful the scam is, not how legitimate it is
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<rajan123>
@sipa we are getting started with it and looking to improve. seeking new ideas to measure it.
<sipa>
how about "Is ICO X a scam? yes"
<rajan123>
yah, we’ll have some user generated content on page of very coin/token.
<sipa>
i don't understand the point
<rajan123>
like people can flag stuff or add risks/rewards etc.
<sipa>
they're all just highly speculative assets with no guaranteed product
<sipa>
invest if you believe the price will go up, at your own risk
<sipa>
nothing else to say
<mryandao>
rajan123: all your growth parameters are lacking in sybil resistance too
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<sipa>
you're trying to differentiate good from bad... what do you mean by good and bad?
<sipa>
if the question is "is it a scam or not", it's very easy - they're all scams
<sipa>
if the question is "will i make money investing", that's harder... but whatever you're doing it's just helping the scammer
<rajan123>
@sipa something will have chances of returning any money is good. if you’re going to lose 100% of money, it’s a scam.
<sipa>
that's a silly definition of scam
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<sipa>
every pyramid scheme or ponzi has a chance of returning money
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<rajan123>
@sipa we’ll be tracking github activity etc. by algo verified developer accounts. so, if good devs. are working on something, it’s likely to be good.
<sipa>
lol
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<rajan123>
also, sentiment analysis applied to tweets and chats.
<sipa>
there's nothing to develop
<sipa>
everything you see is just trying to keep up the impression of usefulness
<sipa>
which there isn't
<rajan123>
@sipa so, you believe current crypto ecosystem of ICOs is unsustainable?
<sipa>
yes, i believe they're all intentional frauds, or people sucked into it without understanding what they're into with no chance of delivering
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<sipa>
and i expect that after one too many fails specularly, the result will just be a lasting negative impression on the cryptocurrency ecosystem as a whole
<rajan123>
@sipa you see no hope in preventing that? We are hopeful so far!
<sipa>
yes, avoid every ICO at all cost
<sipa>
as long as people get sucked into investing in these scams, it'll incentivize people to put more effort into building them
<rajan123>
@sipa can’t we make people/investors focused on a small set of good ICOs and mark everything else as bad as long as there are no commits and no usefulness in their products? that way, we could make something out of this!
<mryandao>
rajan123: it should be obvious now, good projects don't need to ICO.
<sipa>
give me an example of a good ICO?
<sipa>
something that foes more than redistribute wealth?
<sipa>
they're all just zero sum games
<rajan123>
EOS seems like a project that could save the hope in the decentralization dreams of people.
<sipa>
lol
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<sipa>
i guess there is no hope for this ecosystem as long as people believe such nonsense
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<rajan123>
Decentralization is kind of revolutionary and people have seen this in bit torrent and bitcoin. We did try something like Ethlance just to realize that it costs a few cents to make changes and costs 30 secs to save. so, kind of lost hopes in ETH for general purpose decentralized apps. EOS seemed like a hope but their CEO Brendan Blumer is crying to devs in the Telegram channel. That makes me question everything here, including this chat here. =)
<sipa>
if there was actually a good idea, there would be a dozen other ways of finding investment money that don't risk making the creators insanely rich without any incentive to deliver
<sipa>
using an ICO as an investmemt mechanism, even if there is a good idea, and even if it turns out the developers don't run away with the money, and even if it results in a succesful ecosystem, will always leave a black mark on the project
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<sipa>
f you compare with tradition means of funding a company... typically founders that seek VC money are barred from selling their shares in the company ahead of a publiv event
<sipa>
that's to remove the incentive to run away with the money
<sipa>
ICOs are tye ultimate opposite of that, allowing founders to instantly sell
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<rajan123>
@sipa a project like Ethereum might not have happened without an ICO. Isn’t ICO a way to serve common good by making common people participate in the development process? We probably need better ways to protect investor interests via “smarter” smart contracts than eliminating the idea of ICOs itself. If it’s broken, why not fix it?
<sipa>
i think ethereum's creation was a scam, that made people rich without contributing anything
<sipa>
and there would have been many other ways to fund it
<sipa>
so no, i don't think tuey serve the public good
<sipa>
and smarter smart contracts to protect the investors... that sounds like an interesting thing to research
<sipa>
but i doubt there would be much demand for it...
<sipa>
anyway afknow
<sipa>
*afk now
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