#bitcoin-wizards on 2017-08-22 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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00:20 <adlai> optics?

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00:45 <adam3us> someone was arguing the block sat should send signed utxos (even if they are not committed) as an incremental improvement.

00:45 <adam3us> eg multisigned by some threshold of developers.

00:45 <kanzure> for utxo commitments?

00:46 <adam3us> yes given that utxo commitments are not consensus enforced (yet).

00:47 <adam3us> ie really here's a utxo snapshot, trust the signers.

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03:40 <kanzure> file encryption things https://www.cryfs.org/howitworks

03:42 <sipa> a very good question about segwit that i don't know was ever answered completely before: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/58414/why-include-the-segregated-witness-merkle-root-in-the-input-field-of-the-coinbas/58415#58415

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03:54 <Emcy> good explainer but it makes it sound like you got lucky having a backwards compatible place to put the segwit commitment?

03:56 <rusty> Emcy: Not really, there were a few options. The miners didn't like anything which added new restrictions on the coinbase input, IIRC, so it was placed in an output instead.

03:57 <Emcy> i didnt know the coinbase had an input. It just comes out of 'thin air'

03:58 <sipa> the coinbase transaction does have an input, and that input is traditionally even called "the coinbase" :)

03:58 <sipa> it's where the name comes from

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12:34 <Mattie161> how does, or will, the lightning network consider that the (partially) signed transactions (im thinking initial 'refunds') which may have been created months or years in the past could have a fee which is now insufficient to get confirmed in any time at all? then you are stuck? It might only happen if past transactions have to be broadcast but someone trying to con another out of funds

12:34 <Mattie161> may do it. Although their transaction would be time locked they may collude with a miner to get it in a block after the timelock because the honest person taking the funds back that isn't time locked will never confirm in time due to insufficient fee?

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12:54 <kanzure> in non-adversarial situations you simply have both parties sign new transactions

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13:17 <Mattie161> and in hostile situations? just don't keep channels open too long, don't keep them open if fees rise too much?

13:18 <kanzure> hostile situation ain't got nothing going on because neither party can close the channel anyway

13:19 <kanzure> except perhaps by child-pays-for-parent

13:19 <kanzure> but not without loss..

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18:33 <oleganza> > "this chain was signed by these people with real names and reputations, who I'm already trusting not to provide me backdoored software anyway"

18:33 <oleganza> it makes a lot of sense and yet imagine amount of PR shit that will hit the fan should something like that be proposed as an optional feature.

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18:34 <oleganza> that's funny because it's much-much-much easier to independently verify exact state of the chainstate across many nodes, compared to doing a deterministic build for 3+ platforms.

18:34 <kanzure> well, first, "outrage" should not be your metric by which you judge the qualilty of software

18:35 <oleganza> kanzure: agreed

18:35 <kanzure> lite clients aren't really part of the protocol anyway so sending some extra unrelated data down the same pipe.. meh.

18:36 <kanzure> my biggest concern would be that it might unintentionally and incorrectly signal a recommendation to not use the bitcoin protocol (whereas i would prefer lite clients would just stop..)

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