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<jl2012>
jtimon: it uses a fixed hard fork height only (now 200 for testing propose)
<jl2012>
And it's a soft hard fork
<jl2012>
Do can't use the hard fork bit
<jtimon>
yeah, only from a sinple height it's what makes sense as a start
<jtimon>
but, the "hardfork bit" (ie nVersion < 0), it's still a good idea I think
<jtimon>
as a warning
<jl2012>
This one can't use that because it's soft hard fork
<jtimon>
right, this would be for a simple hardfork
<jl2012>
I may propose a BIP for a soft hard fork bit
<jtimon>
I mean, maybe in genral, you're removing rules and there's one bit that would make everyone know...I still don't see the disadvantage
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<jtimon>
of course, as always, the documantation can't travel in time, it will still be "rejected nVersion=0x%08x block"
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<jtimon>
stupid idea: what if we put the message in full in the coinbase with this last message being a consensus dynamic string
<jtimon>
that way, anybody could advertise himself to block explorers and full nodes
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<jtimon>
ie:
<jtimon>
strprintf("nVersion=0x%08x: %s %s ", "somebody wants to do a hardfork, see:", msg)
<jtimon>
msg = msg_from_the_coinbase("it's the perfect pow-based advertising platform your IT department was waiting for")
<jtimon>
maybe with only one block you won't see the ad, but everybody will see the invalid block
<jtimon>
I think is safe to establish that whatever the ad says, after 6 blocks or so (I didn't say 6, I said N), only unreasonable people would reject the ad as not being and absolute and undeniable truth
<jtimon>
s/and/an/
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<stevenroose>
Thought: delayed / smoothed / shared block rewards can be one of the most important improvements to protect users against bad behavior from miners
<stevenroose>
The issue with miners is that they can include transactions in a block that they did not broadcast prior to the block. So they can artificially fill any fraction of their blocks (say 50%) with transactions they made up that pay a high tx fee.
<stevenroose>
For the outside world (except maybe some people that closely watch tx broadcasts) it will seem that this is the reasonable price for txs
<stevenroose>
I would not surprise me of miners are already doing this at substantially lower levels in order not to be suspicious
<stevenroose>
If f.e. the reward for a block goes to the miner of the next block, miners cannot insert transactions with arbitrary fees
<stevenroose>
While still miners would have an incentive to maximise total tx fees because they could just as well be the miner of the next block
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<instagibbs>
stevenroose, problem with smoothing is that out of band fees avoid this. And AFAIK it's already a very common practice.
<stevenroose>
instagibbs, can you explain that?
<stevenroose>
out of band just means off chain, right?
<instagibbs>
stevenroose, and to be clear, Core doesn't estimate fees from blocks, it estimates from things it sees in mempool
<instagibbs>
yes
<instagibbs>
they submit a tx with low/no fee directly to miner and pay them however
<stevenroose>
aaah
<instagibbs>
they get QoS, and can "bump fee" arbitrarily
<stevenroose>
is that a common practice?
<stevenroose>
I did not know
<instagibbs>
I believe some pools publicly advertise such a service already.
<stevenroose>
Well common practice or not, it's not a very fair process and is not really within the philosophy of bitcoin
<stevenroose>
And now that I think about it, it doesnt interfere with fee smoothing
<instagibbs>
If there's no stated fee, there is nothing to smooth
<stevenroose>
the miner of the current block can still charge out of band for including a transaction, it would only be bad for other miners
<stevenroose>
with smoothing I meant like pool up fees from the last X blocks and pay 1/X of that amount to a new miner
<stevenroose>
a sort of moving average payout with pool = pool + newBlock.fee - blockOfAgeX.fee and give the miner pool/X
<stevenroose>
that formula is wrong, but you get the concept :p
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<stevenroose>
I'm thinking what makes the most sense for a smoothing algo to do with the current block. Include it somehow or only decide on past fees.
<stevenroose>
When including the current block let's say in an X-block average or whatever, they can still fill blocks with txs with fees equal to the average fee over these X blocks
<stevenroose>
If you don't include it, the worse they can do is filling blocks with zero-fee txs and accepting fee's out of band or whatever, but 1. that can happen anyways and 2. not including any fees lowers their income in the long run since they have a likelyhood of findng anothe block in the next X blocks
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<jtimon>
yeah, then miners will prefer out-of-band fees since they don't have to share/average those
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<mryandao>
has this issue been considered from the perspective of auction theory. It sounds asif its not necessarily in the interest of miners to accept private unbroadcasted transactions as it may not necessarily pay the "best" fees
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