#bitcoin-wizards on 2016-11-27 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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09:25 <jl2012> luke-jr: I'm trying to run your SHF. I mined some blocks in regtest and getblock returns something like this:

09:25 <jl2012> 000000000300003000000000573afcb569307e456f08ee5f86863e1d944fa5d98738ee750c7637ed618f830e57a63a58ffff7f200100000000000000009e2e6bfa6b4596983812df5a00826a62e508e87d28fcc4dc2b20e8910f3c6c85000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000101000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000

09:25 <jl2012> 000000000000000000000000ffffffff0502ad010101ffffffff02807c814a000000002321035bb1ed70ac081f36f9a782f672ac07650f9f562fa859037d840d823e5a874dfeac0000000000000000266a24aa21a9ede2f61c3f71d1defd3fa999dfa36953755c690689799962b48bebd836974e8cf900000000

09:25 <luke-jr> jl2012: ok

09:26 <jl2012> I suppose the initial 4 bytes should be nHeight, but it is shown as a fixed value of "00000000"

09:26 <luke-jr> hmm

09:27 <jl2012> 03000030 is the nDeploymentsoft, with testdummy, csv, and segwit

09:28 <jl2012> and the following 4 bytes is nDeploymenthard

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10:15 * rogerSmith Get your free bitcoin bot http://www.bitcoinblackhat.com/member.php?action=register&referrer=10332

10:16 * rogerSmith Get your free bitcoin bot http://www.bitcoinblackhat.com/member.php?action=register&referrer=10332

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10:36 <sn0wmonster> oh joy

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12:41 <jl2012> luke-jr: why you have this check? nNonceC2 >> 0x18

12:45 <jl2012> shouldn't you asset the opposite?

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13:36 <jl2012> luke-jr: if we later want to add UTXO/TXO commitment and merkle sum tree through a softfork, do you expect that to be added to Hash CMR ("Commitment Merkle Root")?

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15:04 <luke-jr> jl2012: I think that assert should be opposite, yes

15:05 <jl2012> but what would happen if someone send me a block with nNonceC2 >= 2^24 ? Will my node crash due to this assert?

15:05 <luke-jr> yes, CMR looks like the place to add other commitments

15:05 <luke-jr> jl2012: right now, probably

15:06 <luke-jr> need a way for GetHash to say "invalid data" :P

15:06 <jl2012> or make it a uint16 + uint8 , sounds like a hack

15:07 <luke-jr> oh

15:07 <luke-jr> right, it's impossible to get more than 24 bits in there :D

15:07 <luke-jr> or should be

15:07 <jl2012> also saving 1 byte

15:08 <luke-jr> need to teach serialization to only do 3 bytes there

15:11 <kanzure> andytoshi: when you have a moment sometime, could you write down your "SNARK analogy" for mimblewimble?

15:11 <kanzure> (the one about "a very limited SNARK, by analogy only")

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15:28 <jl2012> luke-jr: I just split it into 2 fields (16 + 8) for now

15:28 <jl2012> seems work

15:30 <jl2012> if the size of vhashCMTBranches is 0, the value of the first 4 bytes of class 3 nonce is irrelevant?

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17:04 <jl2012> luke-jr: in the Header C you use transaction size/weight instead of block size/weight. Is your intention not to count the block header?

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17:08 <jl2012> also, the "Merkle tree algorithm" is not implemented yet? https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/bip-mmhf/bip-mmhf.mediawiki#Merkle_tree_algorithm

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17:33 <CoinGate> Hello everyone! I have an issue implementing BIP70. The issue is that I can not get the certificate to validate, i.e. it works, but it gets marked in yellow color in Bitcoin Core instead of green. Is there anyone who could help me?

17:37 <CoinGate> The issue if described here, and I could also give more information if needed: https://github.com/bumi/bip70-example/issues/1 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

17:38 <kanzure> use #bitcoin or #bitcoin-dev maybe

17:42 <CoinGate> Thank you for your reply. When I try to join #bitcoin-dev, I get error "Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services". How do I get identified? Sorry if this is a noobish question.

17:45 <belcher> /msg nickserv register <password> <email> i believe CoinGate

17:47 <CoinGate> Thank you, that worked!

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18:46 <luke-jr> jl2012: maybe Header C should include nonce space to repurpose as additional commitments later

18:47 <luke-jr> jl2012: yes, block header cannot count in H-C I think..

18:47 <luke-jr> jl2012: after all, you may be merge-mining

18:47 <luke-jr> jl2012: MT algo is not implemented yet, correct

18:50 <jl2012> luke-jr: with some hacking I think I'm able to get it working: https://github.com/jl2012/bitcoin/tree/hardfork2016

18:50 <jl2012> with basic mining

18:51 <jl2012> but it still uses ExtraNonce in the real coinbase tx

18:51 <luke-jr> real = inside the HF block data?

18:52 <luke-jr> or H-C?

18:52 <jl2012> the real paying tx

18:52 <luke-jr> no big deal IMO

18:52 <jl2012> yes

18:52 <luke-jr> heck, I probably wouldn't even change that in the main HF PR

18:52 <luke-jr> let it be optimised later

18:53 <luke-jr> miners are going to be constructing their own H-C anyway

18:53 <jl2012> it seems easier than I thought. The more challenging tasks is to work with old clients

18:54 <luke-jr> indeed

18:54 <luke-jr> but really, that *could* just be a custom bridge

18:54 <luke-jr> ie, not in bitcoind

18:54 <jl2012> yes

18:54 <jl2012> but pre-fork is more problematic?

18:54 <luke-jr> it might be better to have it in bitcoind anyway though

18:55 <luke-jr> since we need to handle the old-client-upgrading-post-fork scenario

18:55 <luke-jr> right, that too

18:55 <luke-jr> we want to interop pre-fork of course

18:55 <luke-jr> plus we have experience doing this with segwit to a degree

18:56 <luke-jr> SHF and segwit's tricks are pretty similar

18:56 <jl2012> yes

18:56 <jl2012> have you considered to put the merkle root in scriptPubKey? That leaves more space for nonce3

18:57 <jl2012> also the 4 byte merkle root nonce

18:57 <luke-jr> hmm

18:58 <luke-jr> complicates H-B encoding somewhat

18:58 <jl2012> only a little bit? both are fixed size

18:59 <jl2012> OP_RETURN 0x24 hash|nonce

19:02 <jl2012> what is the benefit of your mekle tree algorithm over the original one? I think it's related to the mechanism of SHA256. Any reading?

19:05 <luke-jr> jl2012: right now it's basically <constant> <variables> <constant>

19:06 <luke-jr> jl2012: the MT algo commits to metadata

19:06 <luke-jr> jl2012: right now we have a theoretical-but-AFAIK-impractical exploit in Bitcoin's MT algo, and the new one fixes that

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19:13 <jl2012> luke-jr: is it related to this? https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/pull/75

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19:14 <luke-jr> no

19:17 <luke-jr> but maybe something there worth integrating

19:17 <kanzure> .title

19:17 <yoleaux> Segwit arbitrary commitment trees & faster hashing by maaku · Pull Request #75 · sipa/bitcoin · GitHub

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19:21 <luke-jr> jl2012: ideally would like to use https://github.com/maaku/bips/blob/master/drafts/auth-trie.mediawiki for the CMR as well

19:22 <luke-jr> err, maaku deleted it? :|

19:22 <luke-jr> maaku: is the trie BIP draft somewhere now?

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19:38 <kanzure> why not merklix stuff

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21:15 <bsm117532> I'd really like a rundown on the different types of hash-prefix Trie/Merklix/MMR, their pros/cons, and what the options are there...

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21:27 <jtimon> jl2012: didn't looked yet, but are you using the "hardfork bit" in your branch? are you using bip9?

21:27 <jtimon> seems no for bip9

21:32 <kanzure> yeah there's going to be a tremendous amount of riders if anyone makes an actual hard-fork proposal

21:33 <kanzure> (the "one hard-fork every 40 years" thing)

21:34 <jtimon> jl2012: not sure if luke-jr gets notification of this, sorry if you get notified twice https://github.com/jl2012/bitcoin/commit/572906a85f3aa8edfe9f9d36cb8a17861588db6d#commitcomment-19974846

21:35 <jtimon> that commit should help with #8493 too

21:35 <jtimon> maybe I just "steal it" for #8493 now...

21:36 <jtimon> and if you PR independently, please ping for review

21:37 <jtimon> nah, it doesn't really help with #8493 , but I still like it

21:38 <jtimon> kanzure: I'm not sure I agree with "one hardfork every 40 years"

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