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<jtimon>
Luke-Jr: you agree that controversial hardforks should not use bip9 or equivalent "miner signaling" mechanisms for activation, right? I'm not sure what we're discussing, I think you would agree that ASIC-reset is obviously controversial to current ASIC owners and producers. Whether that is "fine" or not is very relative (for starters, we would need to define "fine")
<Luke-Jr>
jtimon: I don't consider the ex-miners to be relevant to the question of whether it is controversial in the community
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<bramc>
Eliel_: The bitcoin core people are clearly worse at PR. But they're better about all the broader ecosystem not strictly technical things as well.
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<bsm1175321>
There's a strong correlation between being bad at PR and being good at things that matter.
<Eliel_>
bramc: That expression itself is an example of how not to do PR. The desired state is not to find out who's better but rather to reach consensus. For consensus the thing that needs to be clearly communicated is that there is a shared common goal. When that is established, then you can discuss the how.
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<bramc>
Eliel_: Consensus is impossible when some people are boneheaded
<bsm1175321>
I apologize for getting sucked in. Let's keep this topical folks.
<bsm1175321>
;;topic
<gribble>
This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
<bramc>
I'm *almost* done coding on the merkle set. The very last thing I'm writing is going to be the mark and sweep of a leaf block, which is the center of the whole thing.
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<bsm1175321>
I'm excited to see it and figure out how we can use this bramc
<bramc>
bsm1175321: The intended use is for utxo commitments in blocks
<bsm1175321>
I know.
<bramc>
It's probably useful for lots of other crypto stuff
<bsm1175321>
But it's more generally useful to prove presence/absence in a set, which I think is generally interesting.
<bsm1175321>
I've been thinking a lot about ways to make ZKP's. Your Merkle Set approach has log(n) size proofs. I believe the right kind of ZKP could have constant size proofs.
<bramc>
Yes, that's the beautiful thing about ZKPs. They're extremely small and quick to verify.
<bsm1175321>
Using homomorphic encryption of a hash, you can use Fiat-Shamir to create a constant-size proof of knowledge of the preimage.
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<bramc>
Not like I understand the technical underpinnings, but they're very appealing. Unfortunately the other side of the calculation is much more expensive.
<bsm1175321>
What "other side" do you mean?
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<Luke-Jr>
adam3us: segwit is not an extension block at all
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<bsm1175321>
I think the soft-fork mechanics of capacity increases by bandwidth increases (a la extension blocks) do need to be more carefully described.
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<adam3us>
Luke-Jr: it's related in the sense of sending additional data ignored by old-clients that adds capacity. and it could evolve relatively elegantly into extension-blocks IF people thought it was a good idea. i know it has risks, but evidently so do hard-forks (and firm-forks etc)
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<Eliel_>
is there an overview of the new fork terms somewhere?
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