#bitcoin-wizards on 2016-01-10 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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13:18 <kanzure> is there any multiparty OTR implementation?

13:19 <btcdrak> kanzure: the only think I heard of was this https://github.com/cryptocat/cryptocat/wiki/mpOTR-Project-Plan

13:24 <nsh> it's a difficult problem

13:25 <nsh> i had a vague notion that perhaps you could attack it using borromean rings but i haven't elaborated that

13:28 <nsh> previous/current efforts: https://whispersystems.org/blog/private-groups/

13:30 <nsh> matt green navel-gazes: http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/07/noodling-about-im-protocols.html

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13:38 <nsh> .title https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/deuxdrop-planning/2011-November/000013.html

13:38 <yoleaux> notes from mpOTR (multi-party off-the-record) paper reading relating to our conversation crypto

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16:18 <bsm1175321> Multiparty OTR would be badass.

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17:32 <rasengan> I would just do the simple solution for multiparty Otr heh just send same msg to everyone using otr lol

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17:36 <phantomcircuit> rasengan, that's really the only sane way to do it

17:36 <phantomcircuit> but it leads to questions like, do we care if i send different people different messages?

17:36 <phantomcircuit> how do we decide group membership?

17:37 <rasengan> true have to generate hash to authenticate msg is the same

17:37 <nsh> consistency of transcript (does everyone think the same conversation happened) and weak or strong repudiability and the same degree of authentication, forward-secrecy and protection of long-term identities

17:37 <nsh> does not scale if you do a naive generalisation to two-party like that

17:37 <nsh> things start to go potentially wrong in different ways

17:38 <nsh> *of two-party

17:38 <phantomcircuit> nsh, it scales O(n) which isn't great but also isn't terrible

17:39 <phantomcircuit> the bigger issue is whether everybody saw the same thing

17:39 <bsm1175321> The requirement of forward secrecy seems to be incompatible with multi-party.

17:39 <nsh> i meant that none of those properties remain exactly as strong

17:39 <nsh> or at least, you have to give up some to retain others

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17:45 <phantomcircuit> bsm1175321, there has to be a design decision made between guaranteeing to multiple parties that they all got the same message and forward secrecy

17:45 <phantomcircuit> (i think, maybe someone has a clever design that does both)

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