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<Senjai> Hello!
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<zzak> erikh: yessums
<erikh> nice
<zzak> staying in asakusabashi
<ericwood> lucky bastards at the ruby conf
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<zzak>
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<zzak> yorickpeterse: good recommendation, this place is nice
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<zzak> i'm off into the city for the day, then asakusa.rb!
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<erikh> zzak: is kaigi invite only now?
<erikh> I can't remember.
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<Senjai> Anyone near the Vancouver Area?
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<erikh> BC I presume?
<Senjai> Yea
<erikh> there's a big devops community up there.
<Senjai> Devops? Excuse my ignorance.
<erikh> I knew a few people, but have sense moved
<erikh> oh, doing sysadmin work with a developer mindset.
<erikh> and a million other things if you type it into google
<Senjai> Ahh, well I'm trying to learn as much as I can about ruby
<Senjai> but the community seems lackluster compared to say, Seattle.rb
<erikh> it's basically a bunch of people trying to do web 2.0 all over again
<Senjai> Ahh haha
<erikh> yeah, if you can get down to seattle.rb.. that's what I'd do
<Senjai> That's great, but I can't get a job in seattle. Meeting people down there would be awesome to learn off of eachother... etc
<erikh> oh, are you looking for a job, or just to learn?
<Senjai> I'm just not sure if Ruby is a good language to learn in Canada.
<erikh> I think you can head down to learn.
<Senjai> Both
<Senjai> I'm not anywhere near job ready yet
<erikh> well, er, you know you're not going to get one until you do the other, rihgt?
<erikh> ok good
<Senjai> Yea.
<erikh> ok, dinner time. bbiab.
<Senjai> I've been documenting my progress here: http://github.com/senjai
<Senjai> ok, ttyl
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<xuser> Senjai: I love the pickaxe book but is not very detailed about the language
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<Senjai> xuser: You've read it?
<Senjai> xuser: sorry about the late reply, Quassel forgot to ping me.
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<erikh> it's irc man
<erikh> late replies are the norm
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<Senjai> xuser: derp. And it just decided to disvonnect. What would you suggest as further reading?
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<erikh> are you new to programming or just ruby?
<Senjai> Technically, just ruby
<erikh> honestly
<Senjai> I used to program in C++ and Ogre, a few years ago
<erikh> if you want to learn something, be honest with yourself
<erikh> the only person that loses is you, heh
<Senjai> But I can't remember anything
<Senjai> Yea I know
<erikh> ok
<erikh> google for "Chris Pine's Learn to Program"
<Senjai> So like, program logic, is easy for me to pickup. As I've learnt it before.
<erikh> I think it's at pine.fm but don't hold me to that.
<erikh> the language is in ruby.
<Senjai> Is that part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf?
<erikh> possibly?
<erikh> it's free on the web.
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<erikh> start with that. if that's too easy, go to the pickaxe.
<erikh> honestly by the time you're done with the pickaxe, you may not feel the need for other books.
<erikh> unless you want to do rails things or cover a heavy topic like parsing or something.
<Senjai> I'm almost finished the pickaxe
<Senjai> and besides CGI (mostly just apache being picky, I ended up building ruby from source over rvm) I havent had any issues
<erikh> yeah
<erikh> if you're almost finished the pickaxe, it's probably too easy.
<Senjai> and I've done almost everything there is on Codecademy
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<erikh> cool. what do you want to do with your newly found programming knowledge?
<Senjai> It's really hard to describe my 'competency'. I mean, to solve problems, the hardest part for me is learning libraries, or understanding how they work. I ask lots of questions on stack overflow, but the actual syntax isn't really a problem for me.
<erikh> if "get paid" is the only thing you can come up with, you're in for a very rude awakening.
<erikh> although I doubt that's the case.
<Senjai> no, not at all
<erikh> don't try to describe your competence
<erikh> levels are for corporations that manage tens of thousands of people
<erikh> you either have a good idea, or you don't, and if you're an expert or a hacker, someone else will let you know.
<bnagy> god I hate IRC bots
<erikh> there's some zen for you
<erikh> bnagy: ?
<bnagy> looking at the program ideas :)
<Senjai> The TL;DR of it is: I went into business school because my boss offered me a great opportunity if I did. Just before graduating high school I was really into C++ and DIrectX. I recently dropped out favoring what I love to do over money
<Senjai> So now I'm going back to where I started
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<bnagy> that's a great idea, btw Senjai
<Senjai> Trying to make a career out of what I love, rather than what makes me money
<Senjai> That's where I am now
<bnagy> not enough people write down actual ideas for stuff to write. It's a common, and annoying question in here
<erikh> Senjai: ok, so I dropped out, smoke a shitton of weed for about 4 years, and then got my GED, dropped out of college twice.
<erikh> you can do it, but tell your past to GFY
<Senjai> GFY?
<Senjai> bnagy: whats a good idea?
<erikh> Senjai: look at cinch if you want a bot framework.
<Senjai> I decided on an IRC bot because it would involve threads, sockets, and parsing. Hopefully I can find a library that can abstract some of that away.
<Senjai> erikh: I heard of that.
<erikh> I have a couple of bots I wrote in it, and I happen to like the author
<Senjai> erikh: One of the problems I think I struggled with when I was younger, is the incessant need to reinvent the wheel
<erikh> ok
<erikh> so,
<erikh> gem install cinch
<erikh> read some examples
<erikh> write a bot that joins a channel and prints "hello world"
<Senjai> erikh: A part of me wants to design a framework from the ground up, so I can understand everything thats going on. The other part of me says thats not important, and just to use libraries that exist.
<erikh> once you get a win you'll stop feeling like sisyphus
<erikh> but until you do something to do that, you're just gonna, well, whine about not getting anywhere
<erikh> that's real talk.
<Senjai> I mean, there was this challenge someone posted on Codecademy, and I thought it was a great way to get used to the CSV library. It was the first time I used it, and figured it out entirely from the documentation.
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<erikh> great
<Senjai> I was pretty proud of it when I finished it
<erikh> hm
<erikh> ok, great.
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<Senjai> I had to figure out the delete_entry method with the File class and some help on stack overflow though. But I figured after that, the only way to learn is by doing, rather than studying..
<erikh> so, I'm going to be direct
<erikh> less talky, more code-y
<erikh> if you want to get better.
<Senjai> haha yeah.
<Senjai> I've been coding all day, decided to pop on the irc channel and introduce myself
<erikh> cool
<erikh> well, it's memorial day in the states and almost 8pm
<Senjai> Particularly to see if anyone was close by or around my level that wouldnt mind working together.
<erikh> which means almost nobody is here.
<Senjai> lol yeah.
<erikh> just us schlubs who wanted to take the 3 day weekend to fix their aging servers.
<dominikh> holiday my ass, I've got a test in university in 5 hours.
<Senjai> aging servers? Are you a sysadmin?
<Senjai> Good luck dominikh
<dominikh> thanks, but it won't help ;)
<Senjai> What are you studying?
<erikh> Senjai: by trade, sort of.
<erikh> I do devops work
<Senjai> ahh
<erikh> automation and toolsmithing
<dominikh> studying applied computer science. the test, however, is on japanese
<Senjai> Its funny you mention that
<Senjai> I plan on going to bcit for Mechatronics and Robotics
<Senjai> dominikh: My girlfriend is Japanese, unfortunately she isn't here and can't help you ;)
<dominikh> heh, lucky you
<erikh> wait
<erikh> mechatronics, is that like, the study of drawing giant robots?
<Senjai> It's kind of synonymous with automation.
<erikh> ... i coudln't resist
<Senjai> lol
<Senjai> I worked at a beer warehouse as an operator for this 5,000 sqft gantry machine
<Senjai> One of the controller programmers introduced me to what kind of work it entailed
<Senjai> So I applied for Mechatronics and Robotics/Computer Systems Technology (basically programming) dual diploma for this January.
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<erikh> Senjai: I'd strongly encourage you to, if you wish to do programming all day, to get a computer science degree.
<erikh> I wish I had finished mine.
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<Senjai> erikh: I will eventually, I would rather start with a diploma though. BCIT has a really good comp sci diploma program. Over 90% are employed in the field 3 months after grad.
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<Senjai> If i can get an internship from teaching myself though, I wouldn't complain
<erikh> that's not the point of a comp sci degree, jobs are easy to find once you've been in the field for a bit.
<erikh> the interesting stuff goes to comp sci people
<erikh> don't feel compelled to listen to me though -- ask others who have been in the industry for a while.
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<Senjai> erikh: I always try and get as much advice from as many as possible. What do you mean by the interesting stuff?
<erikh> Senjai: what's interesting to you?
<erikh> OS-level, video and audio, high volume data processing
<Senjai> Application development. Utilities and tools, things that make existing things better. Controller/HMI programming..
<erikh> all require math and computer science skills.
<erikh> compilers, tons of other stuff.
<erikh> without those skills, well, I hope you like web apps.
<Senjai> I see your point.
<Senjai> I actually feel limited by my math already
<erikh> yeah, it only gets worse
<Senjai> why dont you complete a cs degree part time, or online?
<erikh> I will be once I can move out of this infernal place.
<erikh> I'm near stanford, but ... stanford
<Senjai> where is this 'infernal place' if you dont mind my asking.
<erikh> berkeley is where I'm hoping to end up
<erikh> menlo park, ca.
<Senjai> Oh, nice
<erikh> wonderbreadville
<Senjai> Howd you get into your gig that your in now
<Senjai> if you have no degree
<erikh> I applied
<erikh> I have about 15 years experience.
<Senjai> yea but how did you get started..
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<Senjai> at what point do you feel your skills are.. competetive
<erikh> I was working in a convenience store and playing counter-strike all day when I was not working, baked off my ass
<erikh> then I wrote a little bot for counter-strike that managed users for the admins
<Senjai> ahh.
<erikh> one of the guys that ran the server worked at a rather big online bookstore based out of portland -- the CTO
<erikh> hired me
<erikh> that's how this shit happens man.
<Senjai> wow nice
<Senjai> I just thought I should make everything public, all the projects I work on etc
<erikh> anyhow, work on your portfolio either way
<erikh> CS degree + no portfolio == job cancer
<Senjai> And eventually someone would catch an eye or something
<erikh> that's a really good idea.
<erikh> well, don't expect anyone to catch an eye
<erikh> but be sure to mention it on your resume.
<Senjai> A dev from San fransisco said he'd be willing to have a skype call with me tmrw.
<erikh> excellent!
<Senjai> I emailed him some questions i had on one of his libraries he made.
<erikh> there are a lot of jobs here, but the cost of living is pretty high
<Senjai> And had a bit of a back and forth there.
<Senjai> I cant get to SF
<erikh> but vancouver is no better from what I hear.
<bougyman> if you want a job quick, learn chef and/or puppet.
<bougyman> devops are in short supply, it's a seller's market.
<erikh> ^
<Senjai> Really?
<bougyman> Yes, really.
<erikh> heh.
<erikh> yes.
<bougyman> We're begging for more, on our team.
<erikh> bougyman: :)
<Senjai> But I have no idea what Chef really does? I know it "makes managing a system easier"
<bougyman> gem i chef.
<bougyman> go throught the chef-solo tutorials.
<bougyman> or puppet, or both.
<erikh> Senjai: how much do you know about unix?
<Senjai> erikh: Enough, I read some of the sysadmin guides from tldp.org. I'm using Kubuntu 13.04 now. I have an ArchLinux VirtualBox.. Thats about it.
<Senjai> I can use it, put it that way
<erikh> ok, cool
<bougyman> You know enough.
<erikh> heh
<erikh> yeah, as much as I hate to admit it
<bougyman> We were hiring rails devs and trying to teach them sysadmin
<bougyman> they knew far less.
<bougyman> of course, they didn't work out....
<erikh> bougyman: where are you at?
<bougyman> erikh: sonian
<erikh> bougyman: oh, with the sensu guy, right?
<bougyman> Yesh.
<Senjai> but what does a devop DO exactly.. besides 'reinvent web 2.0' as erikh put it
<bougyman> The sensu guy now has his own gig.
<erikh> ah, cool
<bougyman> Senjai: we make infrastructure with software.
<erikh> that's right he went to heavywater
<arubin> Senjai: A DevOp is a sys admin who can write code and uses these skills to automate things.
<bougyman> We're still all commiters to sensu, though.
<erikh> I talked to AJ once but ended up going elsewhere.
<erikh> cool
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<erikh> it looks like a neat system, just never had the opp to set it up
<Senjai> bougyman: that sounds amazing! :P
<erikh> I'll have to show you what I'm trying to do with furnish sometime
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<bougyman> erikh: i'm working on incorporating central syslog analysis in sensu metrics.
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<Senjai> arubin: This is the closest I have done to automate things I hate doing manually: https://github.com/Senjai/Learning-Ruby/blob/master/mini-projects/cgi-bin/Rakefile
<Senjai> kinda sad right?
<erikh> whoa. taking a swing at logstash?
<erikh> and the new mozilla thing
<bougyman> something like that.
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<bougyman> indexing with elasticsearch
<zzak> erikh: no, tickets just sold out tho :(
<erikh> go seems like the perfect language for volume data processing
<bougyman> we've got an amazing elasticsearch team, might as well put them to work :)
<erikh> zzak: oh, I couldn't get there anyhow
<erikh> literally just started a new job last week
<bougyman> they use clojure for the data processing, though.
<erikh> (yes. I know. it's not been a good year.)
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<zzak> nice
<zzak> how do you like it so far?
<erikh> it's great. really smart people.
<erikh> bougyman: that's right, you guys are elasticsearch profs right?
<bougyman> Yeah.
<zzak> erikh: gratz!
<bougyman> erikh: soon we're releasing waiter.
<erikh> bougyman: what's waiter?
<bougyman> it's what we use to spin up instances and stacks.
<erikh> oh, that's what furnish does.
<bougyman> it abstracts all the different types of cloud.
<erikh> yep.
<erikh> sounds about right
<erikh> I think there will be a few of these soon.
<bougyman> so it can spin rackspace, IBM smartcloud, azure, ec2, a few others.
<bougyman> Senjai: you got it, bud.
<erikh> type "furnish" in the search box.
<erikh> like I said, heh
<bougyman> yep.
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<bougyman> I agree, many people probably build these tools internally.
<bougyman> We just finished the approval process for open sourcing it.
<erikh> bougyman: is it capable of being a library?
<erikh> waiter, that is
<bougyman> erikh: it was a library.
<bougyman> they're turning it into an api, now.
<erikh> that's the thing about furnish
<bougyman> I'm not so sure I agree, and we may still go back to lib-only.
<erikh> I needed it for chef-workflow because of things -- well you know how vagrant is
<erikh> I doubt I have to explain.
<erikh> I think it's absolutely ironic that it's so hard to automate it
<erikh> oh well, I think I'm going to walk away from yet another big project, heh
<erikh> just no time these days.
<erikh> at a puppet shop anyhow.
<bougyman> Ah right.
<Senjai> so bougyman, Just kind of glancing over this. Chef is something that would allow you to quickly configure a system, or run a set of tasks on a system, almost instantly as needed?
<bougyman> There are some things I love about puppet.
<bougyman> The diagnostic power of it, for sure.
<bougyman> But it's not as easy to make a Big role or whole stack with puppet.
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<erikh> nope
<erikh> dunno, these guys are pretty open to change, so maybe we'll move to chef.
<bougyman> Senjai: and keep the running state and installed and configure software the same, yes.
<bougyman> erikh: wow, you are duplicating a lot of the work our team is.
<erikh> I started in october.
<bougyman> they've added a vagrant/test mode to waiter.
<Senjai> bougyman: Oh, so this could accomplish something similar to what Citrix does?
<bougyman> also a direct lxc test mode, i think.
<erikh> nice.
<bougyman> Senjai: closest thing i've used to it was cfgengine
<erikh> bougyman: let me know what happens with the lib thing?
<erikh> if I can punt furnish I wouldn't mind
<bougyman> I will, I will. I have a feeling they're release the api version.
<erikh> I'd rather consolidate but mitchell is f'n impossible
<Senjai> And there is a demand for people who understand Chef and how to make receipes? I would love to learn this!
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<bougyman> Senjai: yes, and it's easy to learn.
<bougyman> Easier to learn sysadmin with chef than with shell, I think, even.
<bougyman> chef's weakness is in debugging.
<erikh> heh
<bougyman> they have this shef thing, (now renamed) that's supposed to be like a repl for it.
<Senjai> I'll definitely look at this! I'll have finished the Pickaxe before I go to bed tonight. (well, up until the reference starts)
<erikh> I've never had much success using shef
<bougyman> but it does not replicate all the runstate of a real chef run, so it falls short.
<bougyman> ^
<erikh> well the other thing is that so many cookbooks presume solo
<bougyman> Yes, I have expectations... Like: Load my damn role attributes!
<Senjai> Any book reccomendations?
<erikh> or can't be tested with search
<bougyman> without that it's pretty useless.
<erikh> bougyman: you're not supposed to use roles, remember? :P
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<bougyman> Senjai: the opscode docs are the best.
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<bougyman> erikh: hahaha, right.
<bougyman> roles are necessary.
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<erikh> fun fact, so, myself and bluepojo architected the original version of berkshelf.
<bougyman> Oh yeah?
<bougyman> the other guys are playing with that now.
<erikh> jamie came in after it was working
<erikh> with all his thought leadership
<Senjai> bougyman: Wow, it looks really well documented. I'll start going through them tomorrow. I don't suppose either of you would be open to suggesting challenges and stuff for me along the way would you?
<erikh> totally not mad
<bougyman> Senjai: it is. There are frustrations, but such is the way with any software as large as chef.
<erikh> lockfiles still don't work, and it still doesn't realize it's not really bundler
<bougyman> Nothin's perfect, but it sucks less.
<erikh> for cookbooks that is
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<erikh> just don't treat it like anything in git matters, and you won't get bit
<bougyman> We'll see. They've got a grand scheme involving berkshelf, 130 git repos, auto-ci, the Moon and 7 levels of Hell.
<bougyman> or something like that.
<erikh> hahaah
<erikh> they finally sped up git repos
<bougyman> The "Community Cookbook" vs "Forked Private Repos" battle swings like a pendulum here.
<erikh> after jamie broke it like a year ago
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<erikh> I'm pretty big on the latter.
<Senjai> Alright, but whats a good goal, or something I could write when I 'understand' chef
<bougyman> same
<erikh> Senjai: set up a webserver.
<Senjai> it's not like I have a server cluster, or can run 20 odd VM's off of my laptop
<bougyman> Senjai: simple stuff. make it autosetup a webserver.
<erikh> without using community cookbooks.
<Senjai> erikh: just a webserver?
<bougyman> then a webserver with a wails app.
<erikh> yep
<Senjai> erikh: but that isn't that hard
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<bougyman> then: Rocketship.
<erikh> Senjai: it will teach you chef.
<Senjai> bougyman: I dont know what wails is..
<erikh> you already know how to set one up. that's good.
<erikh> now do it with chef.
<bougyman> Senjai: i just meant a web app.
<Senjai> ok
<Senjai> Whats Rocketship /me goes to googl
<Senjai> Err, i actually need to know what Rocketship is, google isnt that helpful
<Senjai> So just using chef to set up apache2, php5, mysql, all together would be a good start?
<Senjai> like a default LAMP installation
<erikh> Senjai: a joke
<erikh> rocketship was a joke.
<erikh> point is, start simple.
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<Senjai> Durr, I thought it was the name of an http server, or widget
<Senjai> alright
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<Senjai> Thanks for your help, I'll get back to coding now.
<erikh> enjoy
<bougyman> Sorry for rocketship.
<bougyman> I guess software names are so varied now it could in fact be a webserver.
<erikh> heh
<erikh> indeed.
<bougyman> i have horrible memories of bad software names in this community.
<bougyman> remember "God" ?
<erikh> haha
<erikh> you mean the thing that mojombo wrote to leak memory on severs?
<bougyman> Yeah, the unsupervisor
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<erikh> I think injekt maintains that now
<erikh> and it probably doesn't leak memory anymore
<bougyman> so many supervisors were made back then...
<bougyman> bad case of ABW, if you ask me.
<erikh> ABW?
<Senjai> You two on #ruby-lang often?
<bougyman> I've been using runit since the late 90s, it's never failed me.
<bougyman> Already Been Written.
<erikh> ha
<erikh> runit is not bad but it's not good at coordination
<erikh> have you seen circus?
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<bougyman> It's wonderful at coordination.
<bougyman> With runit I even do capacity management.
<erikh> oh we are not going to talk about your 30 shell scripts
<bougyman> It will spin up other servers to take load if one gets overrun.
<erikh> you know what I mean :)
<bougyman> Yes, and you know what I mean, runit is infinitely coordinatable.
<bougyman> It's just about the plumbing.
<erikh> if you write the tooling it is
<erikh> right
<erikh> I've had this idea -- which is more or less present in circus -- which is having a quorum of servers coordinate rolling restarts
<erikh> as a part of the process management system
<bougyman> Simple coordination is simple, though.
<erikh> I guess I could just write something with ZK or doozer that drives runit
<bougyman> echo sv d other_service > /service/main_service/finish, etc.
<erikh> that might be good.
<erikh> right
<erikh> hmmmmm
<erikh> too many ideas.
<erikh> and I want to write a bootloader to learn that stuff.
<bougyman> want another?
<erikh> haha
<erikh> no.
<bougyman> sensu driving runit driving architecture decisions.
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<erikh> there are people doing that.
<erikh> not sure how much I can say -- but it's being done, it was supposed to be unveiled at surge, not sure if that happened.
<bougyman> Nope, I was at surge.
<bougyman> I talked so some of the guys working on it.
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<bougyman> We hired one.
<erikh> nice
<bougyman> I was impressed with the monitoringsucks conf, it was brainier than surge. Surge was a lot of Vendorisms and recruiting.
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<erikh> yeah? I never go to cons
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<erikh> ok, I need to go finish up this server crap
<erikh> I'll bbl
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<kke> pdf_file = Pathname.new('/tmp/foo.pdf'), any prettier way to do this? : xml = Pathname.new(pdf_file.to_s.gsub(/.pdf$/, ".xml"))
<kke> ie. get a new pathname instance but with different extension
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<kke> ah, there's pathname.sub
<erikh> and extname
<erikh> kke: ri Pathname#sub_ext
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<erikh> >> Pathname.new("foo.rb").sub_ext(".pdf").to_s
<eval-in> erikh => uninitialized constant Pathname (NameError) ... (http://eval.in/31682)
<erikh> >> require 'pathname'; Pathname.new("foo.rb").sub_ext(".pdf").to_s
<eval-in> erikh => "foo.pdf" (http://eval.in/31683)
<erikh> kke: ^^
<kke> no sub_ext in 1.8.7
<erikh> any reason you're still on it?
<kke> yes, legacy gems that don't work on 1.9+
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<kke> maybe one day
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<kke> that pathname.sub by the way seems to do some kind of interesting tricks internally if you look at the source, http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.8.7/libdoc/pathname/rdoc/Pathname.html#method-i-sub
<kke> eval("$~ = Thread.current[:pathname_sub_matchdata]", block.binding)
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<kke> to preserve the regexp captures, but evaling in block.binding might come in handy sometime
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<zenspider> you're fired
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<apeiros> zenspider: you mean the coder of Pathname#sub is fired?
<zenspider> no, that's not what I mean in this case... but they might be fired anyways
<zenspider> I haven't read pathname in a really long time
<zenspider> not sure I want to
<apeiros> I assumed your "you're fired" was triggered by the pasted code
<apeiros> which is from Pathname#sub
<judofyr> oh boy
<judofyr> that is some ugly code
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<judofyr> I don't get why it uses Thread.current
<judofyr> that prints "h", "w", "w"
<judofyr> this seems simpler: http://hastebin.com/webikeboqi.rb
<yorickpeterse> dat eval
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<judofyr> actually, that eval does nothing: http://hastebin.com/hasidejohi.rb
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<apeiros> judofyr: did you try in 1.8?
<apeiros> since that code was/is targeted at ruby 1.8
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<judofyr> I'm too cool for 1.8
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<yorickpeterse> zzak: man you better be having good Japanese food right now
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<injekt> erikh: I don't maintain it anymore but I did when I was using it at work, we moved away though
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<injekt> zzak: ping
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<apeiros> ok, anybody got any idea why on two servers, with the same OS, the same ruby version (1.9.3-p392), the same code `ruby -e 'p Thread.current.respond_to?(:thread_variable_set)'` one time prints false, and the other time prints true?
<apeiros> I even checked RbConfig::CONFIG (searched for anything which contains 'thread', case insensitive), and both were the same
<apeiros> I also did `ruby -e 'p RUBY_DESCRIPTION'` to ensure it was both times the same ruby version and patch-level
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<bougyman> one had libpthread installed and the other didn't?
<bougyman> is this compiles ruby, or packaged?
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<apeiros> rvm ruby
<apeiros> both had pthread
<bougyman> so could be system lib problem.
<apeiros> or rather, have
<bougyman> ok that was my brilliant thought.
<bougyman> sorry.
<apeiros> at least that's what RbConfig::CONFIG claims
<bougyman> something kernel level?
<zenspider> is thread_variable_set different from []= ?
<apeiros> yes
<apeiros> []= is fiber local
<apeiros> thread_variable_set is thread local
<zenspider> ugh
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<apeiros> I resorted to []= for now since I don't use fibers. but it's *really* ugly that my staging and production server differ
<apeiros> even though they use the exact same versions of everything…
<zenspider> did you look at the code defining thread_variable_set ?
<apeiros> on the one where it is defined? that's actually an idea…
<zenspider> sec
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<zenspider> there is no conditionals around it. it is defined or nothing is
<apeiros> says it's native code
<zenspider> right. I'm trying to see if it is at the compiler level
<zenspider> it isn't
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<apeiros> checking now if it has something to do with railsexpress patch
<zenspider> I'd be more interested in ensuring that Thread.current is the same on both sides
<zenspider> maybe test Thread.main ?
<apeiros> same
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<apeiros> also requring 'thread' doesn't change anything either
<apeiros> *requiring
<apeiros> how can I see in what version that method was added?
<zenspider> doc/NEWS-2.0.0
<zenspider> 199: * added Thread#thread_variable_get for getting thread local variables
<zenspider>
<apeiros> it's railsexpress
<apeiros> moment…
<zenspider> bastards
<apeiros> so production has an unpatched ruby, while staging has a patched ruby. not nice :-S
<zenspider> maybe move to 2.0.0-p195 so you can have it unpatched on both sides?
<apeiros> we eventually will
<zenspider> can't say I entirely trust rvm for these sorts of reasons
<apeiros> but that requires testing for which we don't have time yet
<apeiros> at least 1.9 -> 2.0 should be less painful than 1.8 -> 1.9, and far less painful than rails 2.3 -> rails 3.2
<zenspider> quite
<zenspider> "should"
<apeiros> well, that's not really rvm's fault
<apeiros> since the patch is optional
<zenspider> ok. I'm tired (AND DONE!). I'm out
<apeiros> thanks for your help zenspider
<zenspider> n/p
* apeiros gotta find a way to replace the ruby on production without too much downtime…
<whitequark> apeiros: just replace the binaries?
<whitequark> and then kill unicorns
<whitequark> though, you might want to check this on staging first :]
<apeiros> this one still runs on apache
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<apeiros> I'll probably just go ninja style and replace it before 0700
<apeiros> advantage of not being multitimezoned…
<apeiros> gonna get some lunch now
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I wonder if there are combinations of words which cannot be interpreted as "having sex"
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<yorickpeterse> yes
<yorickpeterse> "writing code"
<yorickpeterse> "programming"
<yorickpeterse> "raging at the gym"
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<yorickpeterse> etc
<yorickpeterse> well unless "raging" is some euphemism for sex
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: *anything* can be interpreted as an euphemism at the right circumstances
<whitequark> you might need to toss in voice, body language, etc., but it's just anything.
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<yorickpeterse> well that heavily depends on how twisted your brain is
<yorickpeterse> I fail to see the potential relation between "programming" and "having sex"
<yorickpeterse> or "driving a car" and "anal fisting", etc
<whitequark> it doesn't matter
<whitequark> words can be bound to radically different meanings within a certain context
<yorickpeterse> don't go all freud now
<whitequark> how is freud related?
<whitequark> and by "radically different" I mean just any slang
<yorickpeterse> Because one of the things he considered is that most, if not all (can't remember exactly) of our dreams are sex related
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<w00d> test
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<w00d> any help ?
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<yorickpeterse> use case: when your HDD is a lazy shit
<yorickpeterse> or when writing data in an async environment
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: well, if it's linux
<whitequark> then writes to HDD will block anyway
<whitequark> and AFAIK on any other OS except possibly windows
<whitequark> (any other) I'm not aware of an unix-like OS where posix AIO is implemented without threads and actually doesn't block on disk writes.
<whitequark> erikh may know one.
<w00d> so if I need to communicate over the network, will I need write_nonblock at all ?
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<yorickpeterse> when dealing with network transfers you'll probably want to go with non blocking
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<w00d> When I use write() if the other end is not on recv() write() will also return immediately
<w00d> I am confused about about the blockiing vs. non-blocking here
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<charliesome> w00d: write eventually blocks if the other end doesn't read
<charliesome> w00d: you should be very careful to correctly control backpressure when doing async writes
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<charliesome> eg. if you're copying data from one stream to another
<charliesome> you could easily have a DoS vulnerability where you read a bunch of data into RAM and the other end doesn't read
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<w00d> here is my test
<w00d> and client just do a write and return
<yorickpeterse> https://github.com/ernie/squeel well look at that, this actually makes the AR syntax less shite
<yorickpeterse> I need dis
<yorickpeterse> w00d: without recv nothing is read, thus you're effectively writing to /dev/null
<yorickpeterse> there's nothing to block
<yorickpeterse> s/to/that could/
<w00d> If I add client.recv(10)
<w00d> it still return ?
<w00d> or was it actually already buffered ?
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<w00d> not it's not buffered
<w00d> recvfrom(6, "AAAAAAAAAA", 10, 0, {sa_family=AF_UNSPEC, sa_data="\0\0\0\0\0\0000\177\333\0\0\0\0\0"}, [0]) = 10
<w00d> got t his from strace
<w00d> it get 10 chars, and my client still returns immediately
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<charliesome> w00d: as soon as you write more than the buffer can hold, write() will block
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<w00d> hm.. I didn't find any buffer at system call level
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: squeel looks evil
<yorickpeterse> Sequel has a similar DSL and it's actually really nice
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<charliesome> i bet i can write something just as good that doesn't have the downsides of squeel
<yorickpeterse> e.g. User.filter { id >= 10 & id <= 20 }
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<charliesome> aka. self remains the same, local vars work, errfink
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<charliesome> and you could still write some_column == 123
<charliesome> ;)
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<yorickpeterse> versus User.where('id >= ? AND id <= ?', 10, 20)
<yorickpeterse> (in AR)
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<charliesome> and in mine you could use '&&' and 'and' instead of '&'
<charliesome> i just need to write it first
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<yorickpeterse> && isn't a method
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: doesn't have to be
<yorickpeterse> ehm
<yorickpeterse> wat
<yorickpeterse> `herp && derp` => returns a boolean, not some query object
<charliesome> RubyVM::InstructionSequence.of and Proc#binding
<yorickpeterse> wait what the hell, that returns the last value apparently
<yorickpeterse> also go jump off a building
<charliesome> yeah
<charliesome> why?
<yorickpeterse> how is abusing RubyVM better?
<yorickpeterse> not to mention you lock yourself down to MRI
<charliesome> less user visible caveats ;)
<yorickpeterse> hahaha
<charliesome> you could even cache the AST that you build from the bytecode by using Proc#source_location
<yorickpeterse> are you currently high on drugs?
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: i'm high on ruby and life
<yorickpeterse> so yes, you're doing drugs
<charliesome> if you suggested a name for this amazing library, i'd start writing it now
<yorickpeterse> "catnip"
<yorickpeterse> or acts_as_australian
<charliesome> something relevant plz
<charliesome> sqlol is available
<charliesome> i might use sqlol
<charliesome> it'll be 2.0 only
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<yorickpeterse> You need a job
<rolfb> yorickpeterse; that's so conservative
<rolfb> :)
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<yorickpeterse> eh, what exactly?
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<rolfb> getting a job
<w00d> charliesome: ok it's indeed blocked at certain size of the message
<w00d> :) thanks all
<yorickpeterse> ah
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<LuaWeaver_> Hello.
<LuaWeaver_> I'm a newbie and I get the following error :
<LuaWeaver_> main.rb:18: syntax error, unexpected keyword_end, expecting end-of-input
<LuaWeaver_> On this code:
<LuaWeaver_> Can anyone help?
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<yorickpeterse> class is with a lowercase c
<yorickpeterse> So "class", not "Class"
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<lianj> right
<yorickpeterse> and you're not initializing the class correctly
<yorickpeterse> it's Food.new
<lianj> also Food.new
<yorickpeterse> not Food()
<yorickpeterse> this isn't Python :)
<lianj> thank god for this
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<LuaWeaver_> Okay, thanks.
<yorickpeterse> __hehe__
<LuaWeaver_> I'm coming from Lua, so I'm used to setting __call. :P
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<lianj> LuaWeaver_: you will find ruby very forgiving :)
<LuaWeaver_> It's a very nice language, contrary to what I was told. :)
<lianj> haha
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<LuaWeaver_> Lua has really weird OO, this is so different (but normal).
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<LuaWeaver_> Thanks.
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<LuaWeaver_> This is what I'm "porting" - how would I overload the + operator, like I did with __add?
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<lianj> LuaWeaver_: just def +(other)
<LuaWeaver_> :o Ruby is nice. Thanks for being helpful.
<lianj> yea, ruby comes in many flavors, eg http://pastebin.com/Pi3EDs2h
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<LuaWeaver_> Heh, "flavors" with a Food class.
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<injekt> why are there pastebin links everywhere, what has happened
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<apeiros> injekt: ignorants procreated
<yorickpeterse> CHAOS
<yorickpeterse> RAGNAROK IS HERE
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<yorickpeterse> HIDE YO KIDS
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<erikh> I want to make a joke but I can't remember who ragnarok is
<erikh> I WANT TO PLAY TOO
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<erikh> I'm too lazy to look it up -- what makes you think I'm going to click on that?
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<yorickpeterse> you know you want it
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<erikh> haha, oh. I thought it was a person actually
<erikh> shows you what I know
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<injekt> it's also a map on halo 4
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<Senjai> o/
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<erikh> hi
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<yorickpeterse> my Ruby catnip toy arrived
<yorickpeterse> can't wait to see my cat doing Ruby and taking pictuars of it
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<yorickpeterse> zzak: haha holy shit, this catnip toy is some strong stuff
<yorickpeterse> cat is going nuts on it
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<Olipro> is there a way to make ruby stop parsing code in a file conditionally?
<Senjai> How do you mean Olipro
<Olipro> basically like what __END__ does, except conditional
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<Senjai> Olipro: in your source code, or while your reading a file
<Olipro> in the source code file
<Senjai> You can call exit at any time to stop the execution of the program
<yorickpeterse> Senjai: no
<yorickpeterse> errr, Olipro
<yorickpeterse> parsing: no, execution: yes (exit, raise, etc)
<Senjai> Olipro: something like exit if condition
<Olipro> yeah, execution mustn't halt
<Senjai> though Raise would be better, and handling an exception properly
<Olipro> but...
<Senjai> then use break or next.
<Olipro> I should be able to put a class definition inside an if/unless statement right?
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<Senjai> Why would you want to..
<Senjai> Can you paste your code to gist.github.com or codepad.org
<apeiros> Olipro: yes, you can
<Olipro> because APIs can evolve
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<apeiros> Olipro: and no, you can't stop the parsing itself.
<Olipro> ok, so sticking an if statement after the end on the class should do it
<apeiros> but since class definitions are just code, you can put them into any control structure you want.
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<Senjai> Olipro: can you paste your code? There are always better ways of doing what you're trying to do with an if statement and class definition.
<Olipro> opk
<Olipro> *ok
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<apeiros> I'd work with require "#{@version}/myapi"
<apeiros> and put that stuff in different files
<apeiros> I'd probably even use modules to stick them into different namespaces
<apeiros> e.g. module V1; …
<Senjai> Yeah
<Senjai> That isn't... idiomatic?
<Senjai> You can define them in modules if you have to do it that way like apeiros said
<Senjai> but thats not really how versioning works
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<Senjai> seperate versions should be in seperate files
<Senjai> you shouldn't mix versions like that.
<Olipro> yeah, a module is the way to go
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<Olipro> thanks
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<Olipro> one slight caveat I have though is that I'd like to make the code somewhat incremental and using modules will get in the way of that somewhat
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<Olipro> for example, in V1 of the API, I might define 10 methods, and in V2, I just modify one of those methods
<Olipro> if I use modules, I'll have to iteratively require each one up to the version requested
<Senjai> Olipro: Why would you mix versions like that. You should learn semantic versioning: http://semver.org/
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<Olipro> ...
<Olipro> that's exactly what I'm trying to do
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<Olipro> my problem is making my life easy in terms of ensuring API version stability
<Olipro> can I stick a require statement inside a module and have it only apply if that module is required?
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<heftig_> did ruby 2.0 change the default script encoding to utf-8?
<yorickpeterse> yes
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<Senjai> Olipro: you dont mix versions.
<Senjai> Olipro: you can use a hook call back.
<Senjai> but its not good coding practice
<Senjai> I dont understand why you need to have access to all three versions at the same time
<Senjai> You should only ever be using one version at any given time
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<yorickpeterse> postmodern: ping
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<yorickpeterse> postmodern: either way, regarding those ruby-install packages, you'll want the following:
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<yorickpeterse> base-devel zlib libyaml openssl gdbm readline ncurses
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, pong
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, confcall
<yorickpeterse> base-devel is a group that contains bison, flex, etc
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<postmodern> yorickpeterse, back
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, i assume base-devel also contains gcc and g++
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, also where does arch have rake?
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, is that just in the ruby package, or do they split ruby apart like with debian/redhat?
<yorickpeterse> base-devel contains gcc, yes
<yorickpeterse> and rake is in the AUR
<yorickpeterse> which requires extra tools
<lianj> gem install rake :P
<yorickpeterse> (it's called "ruby-rake")
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<Olipro> is there a way to get the module I'm currently in?
<Olipro> as a constant?
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<apeiros> self
<apeiros> and since you write the code - the name of the module
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<Olipro> actually, better question: if I'm in a method inside class X, inside module A, how can I instantiate class Y that's also in module A?
<Olipro> (without explicitly specifying module A)
<apeiros> Y.new
<apeiros> >> module A; class X; def foo; Y.new; end; class Y; end; end; A::X.new.foo.class
<eval-in> apeiros => /tmp/execpad-74550e93170e/source-74550e93170e:7: syntax error, unexpected end-of-input, expecting keyword_end (http://eval.in/31722)
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<apeiros> herpderp
<apeiros> >> module A; class X; def foo; Y.new; end; end; class Y; end; end; A::X.new.foo.class
<eval-in> apeiros => A::Y (http://eval.in/31723)
<apeiros> fixed :)
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<erikh> >> puts "hello, everybody!"
<eval-in> erikh => hello, everybody! ... (http://eval.in/31724)
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<Aloysius1> I have a gem question. I've made a gem that uses Bunny (another gem). I've packaged and gitted up my gem and now wish to use it. When I add the gem to my Gemfile in my new project, I get "uninitialized constant Mygem::Bunny". I would normally resolve this kind of error by putting the Bunny gem in my Gemfile for this new project, but I thought part of the point of having a Gem was that it carried its dependancies along with it. What am I missing?
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<erikh> do you have a 'require "bunny"' in your code somewhere?
<erikh> if not, you need to add it.
<erikh> Aloysius1: ^
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<Aloysius1> Well, in the gem, yes. I thought having it in the gem, I didn't need it in something using the gem.
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<Aloysius1> It's in mygem.gemspec: require 'bunny'
<Aloysius1> But not in mynewappusingmygem's Gemfile.
<erikh> yeah, it needs to be in the actual files you require
<erikh> gemspecs and bundler aren't considered at that time
<erikh> (well, you shouldn't bank on it)
<erikh> e.g., you have your foo.rb in your gem, and you require 'foo'
<erikh> foo.rb needs 'require "bunny"' in it.
<Aloysius1> so, I have mygem.rb, with a "require mygem/version" but no "require bunny".
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<erikh> right, you need to fix that.
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<Aloysius1> OK, so I added "require 'bunny'", did a bundle update on mynewappusingmygem, and now get "cannot load such file -- bunny".
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<erikh> do you have a gem dependency on bunny?
<erikh> sec.
<erikh> read it.
<Aloysius1> mygem requires bunny.
<erikh> no, it requires it, it doesn't depend on it.
<Aloysius1> right
<rondale_sc> Is there an easy way to list all of the public class methods for a given class?
<rondale_sc> I've tried klass.class.public_methods
<rondale_sc> And others..
<rickhull> rondale_sc: have you looked at pry?
<rickhull> it's like an enhanced irb that lets you walk through and examine loaded classes and modules
<rondale_sc> rickhull: Yes. I'm working off of their method for visibility Pry::Method#visibility
<rondale_sc> rickhull: It looks at instance methods only.
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<rondale_sc> Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a decent way to list public class methods. Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding something.