apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p0: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p392) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<erikh> rickhull: are you just using a pidfile directive?
<erikh> I'm fuzzy on it, but I don't think monit manages it, just determines if it's correct or not
<erikh> err, if the pid in it is valid
<erikh> haven't really used monit since last summer
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<erikh> finished the go tutorial
<erikh> pretty happy.
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<rickhull> erikh: yeah it's some other problem
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<cschneid> does debugger crash on ruby2?
<cschneid> I'm seeing some bus errors that superficially appear to be that.
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<postmodern> is there a rack middleware that can log full requests to a file?
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<postmodern> wait CommonLogger
<MouseTheLuckyDog> Shouldn't Array#delete be Array#delete!
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<drbrain> MouseTheLuckyDog: no
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> drbrain, Why not?
<erikh> drbrain: I just got 42k reqs/s with a 20 line go program :P
<drbrain> MouseTheLuckyDog: the ! means "this method modifies the receiver, unlike the non-bang version"
<erikh> craaaaazy
<drbrain> erikh: nice
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<canton7> drbrain, common misconception. The ! actually means "this is one of a pair of methods with the same name, and this is the one that has perhaps the most unexpected results". The mutation thing is common, but there are loads of examples ! being used for non-mutators in the stdlib and elsewhere
<drbrain> canton7: elsewhere doesn't count
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<drbrain> canton7: and I besides a few outliers, I don't see any obvious non-mutators in stdlib
<drbrain> core lib, none
<apeiros> matz said it himself that "!" just means "be careful"
<MouseTheLuckyDog> drbrain, bur Array#delete does modify the receiver.
<MouseTheLuckyDog> s/bur/but/
<xuser> butt
<drbrain> MouseTheLuckyDog: and?
<Mon_Ouie> But there's no non-mutating version of #delete
<xuser> erikh: ruby wins
<canton7> drbrain, also, look at almost any of the top google results for "ruby bang method"
<apeiros> so the nitpicky explanation is: ! means "be careful", with ! and non-! present that usually means ! is in-place, non-! returns a modified copy. no ! does not imply "not mutating".
<erikh> don't feed the trolls
<xuser> erikh: I wish Go had Ruby web ecosystem :)
<drbrain> canton7: considering I see my website as the second link (pointing to dblack's website) you can now consider me an authority in this matter
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<canton7> drbrain, and your quote agrees with what I'm saying. So I'm failing to see where the confusing lies
<canton7> confusion
<erikh> xuser: I'm just learning something new, not playing the comparison game.
<drbrain> ok
<erikh> and it's exciting and fun
<erikh> that's all :)
<erikh> drbrain: btw, the new tomb raider is not really sexist and not bad at all
<erikh> I was really suprised
<erikh> it's basically like if lara croft lived the last 45 minutes of "Predator" over and over again
<drbrain> erikh: ha!
<xuser> erikh: yeah, I know, just that it would be cool, but its getting there
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<wnd> Sorry to keep spamming about this, but I'll give it one more try: Obviously I don't understand standard streams well enough to really understand why this works the way it does: https://gist.github.com/wnd/79c9e8b4bb9d4d6482ff . Takes filename as argument, creates/overwrites it. Comment line 13 to see expected behaviour.
<erikh> wnd: how are you running it?
<erikh> oh, I see.
<wnd> ruby foo.rb /tmp/xyzzy
<erikh> this is linxu?
<erikh> or unix of some sort
<erikh> stderr is character buffered
<wnd> ah, sorry, that's indeed relevant. linux.
<erikh> stdout is line buffered
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<erikh> you can change this with stty, IIRC
<erikh> or... maybe I have that backwards. I always forget.
<erikh> but I'd guess the non-blocking reads are messing with you
<erikh> have you tried doing this with Process.spawn and IO.pipe?
<wnd> I understand the difference character and line bufferent streams, but I still don't quite get this though. Why would the stream not be flushed when the process has already finished (according to Process.wait)?
<seoaqua> is there an easy way to connect to SQL Server with ruby?
<erikh> wnd: flush happens on characters for one and lines for the other
<erikh> I think stderr is the line buffered one now that I think about it.
<erikh> let me consult the googles
<erikh> nope, stderr is unbuffered -- stdout is line-buffered.
<erikh> wait -- EIO is only related to files, right?
<erikh> don't you want EINVAL or stdin.eof?
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<erikh> seoaqua: there's tinytds for rails folks
<wnd> quite honestly, I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted when I wrote that, so much of that code is unfortunately based on trial and error
<seoaqua> erikh, thanks i'll look into that
<erikh> yeah, it honestly seems like confusing code
<wnd> bah, work priority override. thanks for your help, though.
<erikh> wnd: look at Process.spawn. srsly.
<erikh> you can do all this quite literally in a single line of code
<erikh> if I'm fully understanding what you're doing here.
<erikh> well, two lines. You'll want IO.pipe too.
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<wnd> erikh, will do
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<wnd> As for background, this abomination was born when I wanted to download an rtmp stream (using flvstreamer), but the server would issue pause requests every few seconds without ever sending resume. Workaround was to restart flvstreamer and detect pauses in that read loop. Timeout option in flvstreamer would produce broken file, and rtmpdump would create a broken file ten times the size.
<erikh> hmm
<erikh> that's a lovely feature
<erikh> also good lord man, the things some men will do for porn
<wnd> of course the right solution would be to hack flvstreamer, but somehow I ended up writing ruby code instead
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<wnd> actually, this one is for national tv channel
<erikh> ah
<erikh> I believe ou
<erikh> I'm just joking around.
<wnd> luckily I don't take people seriously :-)
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<mbmike> hello ruby peeps
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<mbmike> is module::class.new equivalent to module.class.new ?
<charliesome> mbmike: module::class is a method call
<charliesome> protip: never use :: for method calls
<ddfreyne> mbmike: :: can be used for method calls, but it is usually used in e.g. MyModule::MyClass only
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<apeiros> mbmike: did you really mean module::class, or did you mean Module::Class?
<mbmike> yes, my bad. I am using xx = Module::Class.new(value) but should I be calling xx = Module.Class.new(value) ?
<apeiros> mbmike: bad questions lead to bad answers… don't take these kinds of shortcuts.
<charliesome> mbmike: no, :: is for constant lookups, . is for method calls
<ddfreyne> You can use e.g. Class::new but DO NOT DO THAT.
<charliesome> mbmike: so MyModule::MyClass will lookup the `MyClass` constant in `MyModule`
<ddfreyne> (Maybe that is not even possible anymore in 1.9 or 2.0... not sure)
<apeiros> +1 for "don't use :: to invoke methods"
<charliesome> ddfreyne: i might open a redmine bug to deprecate :: for method calls in 2.1
<apeiros> in 1.9 you still can. didn't test in 2.0
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<apeiros> charliesome: please do
<ddfreyne> charliesome: =1
<ddfreyne> charliesome: +1
<mbmike> ok very good, thank you - trying to organise some code into modules… appreciate the help.
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<mbmike> is this a good style reference? https://github.com/styleguide/ruby
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<charliesome> mbmike: yeah mostly
<charliesome> follow it for now, then as you become more experience with ruby you can start to make your own decisions regarding style
<charliesome> but it's probably a good idea to stick to it in the beginning
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<mbmike> charliesome: will do thanks
<charliesome> http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/8377 cc apeiros ddfreyne
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<apeiros> hm, can I comment on that bug? I'd like to add weight to it (not sure I can, but I will mention that I'm one of the, if not the most active person on irc for 8 years straight, and hence do have some experience)
<charliesome> apeiros: if you have a redmine account then go for it
<mbmike> ok on the road to some pretty code here folks :) .. one more Q.. I have multiple files that define several classes grouped in one module. Assuming this (multiple files) is ok, where to you put your comments for the module?
<charliesome> if you don't, make one! :p
<apeiros> ah, I see, I need to sign-up or sign-on first. let me check that when I'm back from work (in ~7h, feel free to poke me should I forget)
<charliesome> mbmike: i like arranging my files according to the class heirarchy
<charliesome> mbmike: so Foo::Bar would be in foo/bar.rb
<charliesome> and Foo would be in foo.rb
<apeiros> mbmike: what charliesome said is the ruby convention
<apeiros> (note that ruby & rails conventions slightly differ - ruby: Foo::BarBaz --> foo/barbaz.rb, rails: foo/bar_baz.rb)
<charliesome> i prefer the rails convention there
<mbmike> yep nice, thats what I have, if you have Foo::Bar in foo/bar.rb and Foo::BarBaz in foo/bar_baz.rb where do you put your comments for the Foo module ?
<apeiros> personally I'd prefer Foo/BarBaz.rb, but since that's no convention at all…
<apeiros> mbmike: in the primary definition of foo, that'd be foo.rb
<charliesome> mbmike: you'd put the comments for Foo in foo.rb
<judofyr> apeiros: oh yes, I would also prefer Foo/BarBaz.rb. makes everything so much easier.
<apeiros> judofyr: hurray! somebody who agrees with me on that :D
<mbmike> ah ok, got it .. thanks.
<charliesome> judofyr: :|
<apeiros> making everything easier would precisely be the reason for it
<apeiros> <3 that prenda law ruling :D
<judofyr> Perl: the class Foo::BarBaz is stored in Foo/BarBaz.pm and you can install it from CPAN with `cpanm Foo::BarBaz`. in Ruby: it's stored in foo/bar_baz.rb or foo/barbaz.rb or foo.rb, the gem name is "foo" or "foo-bar" or who the fuck knows.
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<apeiros> judofyr: indeed :(
<charliesome> judofyr: well sure
<charliesome> but that's more of an issue with rubyists not being able to pick one convention
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<apeiros> charliesome: that's an issue of not having a tyrant requiring one
<judofyr> apieros +1
<charliesome> but what about dhh
<apeiros> did you know that tyrant used to be a word with a positive connotation?
<apeiros> charliesome: yes, dhh making decisions and requirements was one reason for rails' success.
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<judofyr> too bad RSpec "won" over test/unit though
<charliesome> judofyr: i like rspec :(
<apeiros> I prefer an inferior requirement over a dozen superior chaotic alternatives
<apeiros> judofyr: agreed
<charliesome> apeiros: yeah that's a fair call
<apeiros> (I realize and accept that that's not the case for everybody)
<judofyr> charliesome: I think you mean "i like(:rspec)" or "i_like rspec" or "rspec like(:i)" or whatever the syntax is
<judofyr> :D
<apeiros> +current syntax
<charliesome> judofyr: you.should be_liking(RSpec)
<apeiros> or have they finally stabilized?
<charliesome> lolol
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<apeiros> yumm, my i18nutil is getting closer at a public release :)
<apeiros> lolwut? :D
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<apeiros> interesting…
<charliesome> judofyr: clever
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* judofyr is seriously considering it
<charliesome> i wonder if it makes the wheels less efficient
<apeiros> learned a new word: spoked
<charliesome> because some of your energy goes into them flexing
<judofyr> charliesome: well, doesn't all suspension do that?
<charliesome> judofyr: what am i? a physicist?
<judofyr> but yeah, I wonder how this compares to spoked wheels
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<judofyr> (energy-wise)
<judofyr> oh yeah, it gives you a "Smooth ride"
<judofyr> interesting: "Smooth ride: The pedalling cadence is slightly different when you ride loopwheels, because the springs release energy more evenly. This makes for a very smooth easy ride."
<judofyr> I like this quote too: "So that everyone who finishes a Loopwheeled bike jaunt does so with lumbar vertabrae, tailbone, and rectum as intact as they were before the ride began." - http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/fitness/equipment/loopwheels-integral-suspension-bike-wheels.asp
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<mbmike> re, the initial Q. I am using rails, trying Parse.Data.new() and getting NoMethodError: undefined method `Data' for Parse:Module
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<mbmike> but Parse::Data.new() works
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<yorickpeterse> is there a way to easily use define_method to define a class method without having to use an sclass or class_eval ?
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<gnufied> by sclass you mean metaclass right?
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<apeiros> yorickpeterse: singleton_class.define_method
<apeiros> but there's also define_singleton_method
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<yorickpeterse> oh shit, I better give that a try
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> Is there a way to load a ruby file in the local directory that does not have an extension?
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<voker57> MouseTheLuckyDog: use 'load'
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<injekt> load load load
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* yorickpeterse shudders
<yorickpeterse> load, require, require_dependency (Rails). This is starting to look like PHP
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<injekt> require_engine require_tzinfo require_fixtures
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<injekt> require gtfo
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<yorickpeterse> require_once
<injekt> get your php out of heeer
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<jxie> is there any hook so whenever an array literal created the hook get invoked?
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<injekt> what
<yorickpeterse> jxie: no
<jxie> urrr..
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<jxie> or, I found a lot of T_ARRAY created and GCed during a request, now I want to track down where these arrays come from
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<jxie> any suggestions?
<injekt> rbprof?
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<yorickpeterse> MRI doesn't provide very good tools for this, at least not to get the locations of objects
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<yorickpeterse> ruby-prof and the likes can show you total amounts and such, but not where it comes from
<yorickpeterse> You'd probably have to hack the corresponding C code for it
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<injekt> what about rbtrace?
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<injekt> I guess it still cant give you line numbers
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<yorickpeterse> never knew of rbtrace
<injekt> everything tmm1 built is awesome
<yorickpeterse> met him once two years ago (I think), pretty cool guy
<yorickpeterse> at least from what I remember
<jxie> I tried ruby-prof, rb_line_profiler and perftools.rb, haven't found a way to trace object yet
<jxie> tmm1 is awesome +1. most tools I use are created by him
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<jxie> maybe I should check jruby
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<jxie> will give rbtrace a try, thanks
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<mahna> Hello, I'm getting an uninitialized constant error when trying to catch a particular exception, but it appears to be defined. Can anybody take a look at this simple example? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5532383
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<mahna> Basically the gist shows two simple error classes defined in the same module, but only one responds to defined? (the other doesn't and in my original code gives me an "uninitialized constant" error).
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<lupine> fascinating
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<lupine> mahna, certainly in 1.8.7, when I create an instance of Ox::InvalidPath, all of a sudden, defined? starts recognising Ox:ParseError
<lupine> ho hum, and now I can't get it to break
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<mahna> @lupine: Thanks, trying to get to the same place and understand the implications of that (not there yet ;).
<mahna> (1.9.3)
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> Is there a way to require a ruby file in the local directory that does not have an extension?
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<ericwood> MouseTheLuckyDog: require_relative 'file'
<ericwood> I don't think the extension really matters
<wnd> if you're ok with /reloading/ a file, load 'foo'
<mahna> Similarly, none of the other classes defined in that module (at https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5532383) is returned by Ox.constants (only InvalidPath).
<MouseTheLuckyDog> load does work though I would rather use require, require and require_relative do not work. An strace reveals that locally it tries to locate file.rb and file.so but not file.
<MouseTheLuckyDog> The funny thing is that it looks like in every other directory and there are a ton it tries to retrieve file.rb,file.so and file.
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<mahna> @lupine: Ugh, should have gone directly to the installed gem source instead of browsing GitHub, which has a newer (beta) version. User error.
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<tarruda> is it possible to compile ruby without threading support or the interpreter needs threading internally?
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<dbussink> tarruda: it needs threading internally afaik, for example for signal handling
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<tarruda> dbussink: so the garbage collector doesn't need to run in a separate thread?
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<dbussink> tarruda: that runs in the main thread as a stop the world collector afaik
<dbussink> but my ruby/mri internals knowledge is not terribly extensive
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<tarruda> Is there any evented network/io library that provides a synchronous API using fibers? something like python gevent
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<dbussink> tarruda: there's celluloid if you want something like an actor framework
<dbussink> tarruda: http://celluloid.io
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<tarruda> dbussink: that seems nice, thanks
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<imperator> good morning
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<dr_bob> good afternoon
<injekt> good aftermorn
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<tarruda> any easy way to completely disable ruby signal handling? I'm embedding ruby in an application that uses libev(which also emits events for signals), and it segfaults everytime the app receives one
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<dr_bob> tarruda: Signal.list.values.each {|s| Signal.trap s, 'IGNORE'} won't help?
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<tarruda> dr_bob: it does help, thanks
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<imperator> wouldn't that be a bug in libev?
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<lampshades> Hi There :-)
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<lampshades> I'm building a site that shows an external site, with my css
<lampshades> I was wondering if anyone has done such a thing before, and can offer some friendly advice
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<lampshades> I was thinking to build a sinatra app and navigating the external site through mechanize
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<erikh> imperator: really depends on when libev registers its signals
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<injekt> man fuck rails today
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<erikh> injekt: that'd probably hurt
<erikh> I don't recommend it.
<injekt> :(
<erikh> injekt: go is aweeeeesommmmmmeeeee
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<injekt> erikh: :D
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<injekt> erikh: watcha writing?
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<injekt> and yeah the csv importer I built for work (not to mention our entire api) is pretty sweet
<yorickpeterse> meanwhile on HN people are circlejerking about Meteor, a web exploit framework written in JS
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<erikh> injekt: I'm writing an aggressive status proxy
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<erikh> eh, that's an informal term for it
<injekt> :)
<erikh> basically, when you request a status from an API, it caches the current result, and then fires off a background thread that polls it
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<erikh> until the poll resolves with a different result, the cache is served
<injekt> neat
<erikh> then, the poll is stopped and the cache is updated
<injekt> you using channels?
<erikh> yeah, and goroutines
<injekt> :)
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<injekt> go's concurrency model is the easiest to get my head around
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<injekt> i am doing so much hacking around rails crap today
<injekt> worst day ever
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<wmoxam> injekt: what sort of stuff are you hacking around?
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<injekt> wmoxam: to_json stuff
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<injekt> wmoxam: doing an include on an association but want it at the top level with a custom key
<injekt> wmoxam: ended up using as_json/merge :/
<wmoxam> :/
<injekt> aye
<matti> ;]
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<erikh> injekt: you're gonna laugh
<erikh> go's concurrency model is just the explicit to ruby's implicit
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<erikh> where all io in ruby is more or less channels
<erikh> it's obviously not typed in ruby, and go can use real threads, but it's not much different otherwise.
<injekt> erikh: yeah I noticed that afterwards, it just sort of fits into my way of thinking much nicer
<erikh> yep
<erikh> I think it's better just because it's explicit
<erikh> the major thing that turns me off about node is that you don't have the option
<erikh> all I/O is deferred
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<injekt> heh yeah
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<chris2> anyone remember this totally complicated formal description of ruby oo?
<xuser> message passing?
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<erikh> chris2: oh yeah, that rings a bell
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<erikh> but I couldn't tell you where I saw it. it was a part of some bigger project though.
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<erikh> wanted to say it was 7rans or something.
<erikh> err, the person that is.
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<injekt> lol trans
<injekt> ML dick bag
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<drbrain> could have been an Ilias project
<injekt> oh man
<injekt> Ilias
<injekt> one of the reasons I stopped reading the ML
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<chris2> erikh: drbrain: it was neither, but someone similar, yes
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<rickhull> i'd rather read about timecube
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<chris2> rickhull: thought of that too ;)
<chris2> thymecube <3
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<zenspider> injekt: man I want to tweet that "ML" line above :P
<erikh> you hate him so much
<erikh> it's kind of cute.
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<erikh> just sayin'
<imperator> erikh, guess i don't understand enough about how libev should work wrt signals
<erikh> matti: sec, I found a great one today
<erikh> imperator: does it have an initialization step?
<erikh> ruby inits signal handlers at startup
<erikh> so, ruby, signal handlers, libev init, signal handlers
<erikh> at least I could see that happening.
<zenspider> chris2: holy crap that's "impressive"
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<injekt> zenspider: would retweet!
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<zenspider> hrm... release minitest 5 today/
<zenspider> ?
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<yoshie902a> Can someone explain to me why get net::ftp gettextfile() is used when there is already getbinaryfile()?
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<imperator> is used...where?
<zenspider> presumably when you want a text file and not a binary file
<zenspider> it's part of ftp
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<erikh> injekt: proxy seems to be working, gonna clean up some things, but do you mind reviewing some code in a bit maybe?
<erikh> I could use an opinion from someone with experience
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* rickhull witholds a mama joke
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<erikh> rickhull: die
<rickhull> wait, withhold has 2 aitches, but threshold only 1?
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<yoshie902a> zenspider: yes, but you can also download a text file with binary, so I am trying to understand the purpose of gettextfile
<eam> yoshie902a: ftp does text translation to account for platform differences
<zenspider> yoshie902a: to understand that, you should go read the FTP RFC
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<yoshie902a> eam: ftp does text translation? you mean encoding?
<eam> not unicode encoding, more along the lines of translating end of line characters and things like that
<eam> generally text is assumed to be 7bit clean in those old protocols
<eam> as zenspider suggests the rfc is informative :)
<yoshie902a> eam: can you point me in the direction of a reference that talks more about this? where is the rfc?
<eam> probably rfc 354, though it appears it leaves the method of translation entirely open-ended
<eam> but *generally* "text" functions would do things like turn \n sequences into \r\n or \r when going between, say, unix / windows / mac / vms / etc
<eam> though it appears unicode encoding wouldn't necessarily be out of scope, of course it didn't exist back then
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<eam> yoshie902a: check out III.B Data Representation and Storage
<eam> ASCII -> EBDIC
<eam> I've only used ASCII based operating systems so I guess I'm not familiar with those transformations
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<eam> "Multics stores NVT-ASCII as four 9-bit characters in a 36-bit word."
<rickhull> hipsters...
<eam> unicode ;-)
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<eam> the paragraph underneath, about transfering binary data between systems with non-byte-width architectures is horrifying
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<yoshie902a> eam: great, this has been a great help!
<yoshie902a> eam: thank you so much for the assistance
<yoshie902a> eam: I'm not very familiar about rf.'s, but what does the number 354 vs 959 etc mean?
<zenspider> just which rfc it is
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<yoshie902a> zenspider: like a version number?
<rickhull> like an id, more or less sequential. there are many of them
<zenspider> yoshie902a: no. there are many different rfcs
<zenspider> they're numbered
<rickhull> rfc X covers a different subject than rfc Y
<yoshie902a> got it. thanks!
<rickhull> request for comment. it's part of the process of how internet standards are formed
<zenspider> rickhull: unless X == Y :P
<rickhull> >.<
<zenspider> and still, not true... there's like 4-5 RFCs for imap
<rickhull> which one banishes pedantry from the internet :p
<zenspider> that was never ratified
<darix> zenspider: that already includes all imap extensions?
<erikh> fwiw, pkzip does the same thing.
<erikh> or can, at least.
<zenspider> darix: ?
<darix> 4-5 rfcs
<darix> hehehe
<erikh> it's like 15 or so isn't it?
<darix> 38
<erikh> the jwz.org rant is one of them
<erikh> for THREAD
<darix> erikh: see link^^