<dingus_khan>
hi whitequark! I tried to follow you on twitter, couldn't remember my password, gave up, will try again at some point, lol. anti-climactic, that's my style
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<matti>
zzak: You cat is adorable.
<matti>
zzak: We need to clone him.
<matti>
zzak: I was 3 more.
<matti>
want*
* whitequark
giggles
<whitequark>
finally, an accurate description of an outcome of a real-life cloning
<erikh>
I might start with the twootering again
<erikh>
unsure yet.
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<whitequark>
erikh: I'd welcome that
<erikh>
I always do that too, say "fuck this" and then trash my account, and then come galumphing back
<erikh>
whitequark: :)
<whitequark>
too?
<erikh>
idioms
<erikh>
no reference to anyone else
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<whitequark>
oh, sure.
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* whitequark
really, really hates shell right now.
<erikh>
everyone hates shell
<erikh>
well, ok, there are some sick sysadmins out tehre that like it
<erikh>
even though they know other things
<erikh>
but most people who like it actually can't program effectively in anything else or need something really terse
<whitequark>
saddest part of it, it doesn't even matter anymore if someone comes up with a decent replacement
<erikh>
it's great for very little things, but decently sized scripts, it's a travesty
<erikh>
yep, it's hideously entrenched
<erikh>
back in a min
<whitequark>
it's not even inherently bad for big scripts... it's a kinda-fine procedural language, worse things exist. it's just that all operations are slightly awkward and most of interesting stuff is unportable.
<whitequark>
so you get an exponential explosion of awkwardness
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<whitequark>
erikh: (decently sized scripts) I once opened `configure'
<whitequark>
I think I got PTSD from that.
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<erikh>
configure is generated
<erikh>
by autoconf
<erikh>
welcome to hell, there.
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<whitequark>
erikh: I know. I know far more about autoconf than I would ever wish for.
<whitequark>
I used to maintain a set of buildscripts for my little linux distro.
<erikh>
fair enough
<whitequark>
which cross-compiled gcc.
<whitequark>
oh, pain
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<erikh>
ha
<whitequark>
remind me again why exactly should it be compiled for each target at once? remind me again why --target is an option for ALL autoconf projects?
<erikh>
yeah, I've peeked under the hood at luislavena's rake/gem compiler stuff
<whitequark>
*could not it be compiled
<erikh>
do not envy that guy
<whitequark>
he does the windows port, doesn't he?
<erikh>
he has an unhealthy love for that cause
<erikh>
yes
<erikh>
he's a goddamned hero as far as I'm concerned
<erikh>
also absurdly productive
<whitequark>
wasn't he also radically opposed for moving over mri's development to git?
<whitequark>
git(hub).
<erikh>
maybe? dunno.
<erikh>
he gets to have a voice. he's earned it.
<whitequark>
I think some ruby windows dev vetoed it. not sure if him or someone else.
<whitequark>
that kind of sucks, but since mri now accepts PRs on GH, it seems to be fine.
<erikh>
possibly, it'd be him or heesob these days. I don't think imperator is still doing a lot of ruby windows stuff.
<whitequark>
that discussion was quite a while ago... I can't seem to find traces of it easily
<erikh>
dinner, later.
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<erikh>
haha. my wife cooked, calls out dinner. I go downstairs, she hands me a bowl -- go to sit down at the couch. she's staring at me funny and her game of civ 5 is running in the bg
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<erikh>
me: "you want to eat at the computer tonight, don't you?"
<erikh>
her, very sheepishly: "yeaaaaaah."
<whitequark>
hehe. you have a nice wife, don't you? :)
<erikh>
(we usually eat together, if that isn't obvious)
<erikh>
she's a pretty awesome person, for sure.
* whitequark
wonders if it's possible to subscribe to individual files on github. I'd subscribe to parse.y. I'm (not) masochistic.
<whitequark>
via RSS or whatnot
<whitequark>
no, only to commits :/
<erikh>
yeah, that'd be kind of cool
<erikh>
I'd use it to subscribe to changelogs
<whitequark>
oh. that is a neat idea.
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<whitequark>
maybe I should make a webservice
<erikh>
then you'd have two problems
<whitequark>
m?
<erikh>
heh, just a joke
<erikh>
but yeah, that could get pretty interesting
<whitequark>
I mainly don't want to do that because I don't want to figure out how to avoid someone accidentally DoSing my server
<whitequark>
like, pull in the entire linux repo
<erikh>
right
<erikh>
well, you could use oauth
<erikh>
and max number of files per account
<whitequark>
THEN I would have two problems
<erikh>
well, it's better than just letting people spam you
<erikh>
err, max number of files per repo/account
<whitequark>
it's worse than not having such service at all
<erikh>
so, you could subscribe to 3 files in the linux kernel, 3 files in ruby, etc
<whitequark>
erikh: doesn't matter, there are countless forks of linux
<erikh>
count all forks as a single repo
<erikh>
github gives you all that in the API
<whitequark>
people are not obliged to mark forks as forks, of course
<erikh>
they have to clone and upload the repo
<erikh>
someone would have to work very hard
<whitequark>
right, and it won't get marked as fork in that case
<whitequark>
you have to explicitly fork the project
<erikh>
right
<erikh>
point is, the trouble isn't work it
<erikh>
worth
<whitequark>
I've uploaded such 'independent forks' myself, it was kinda easier
<erikh>
for them that is
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<whitequark>
though, it was prior to torvalds/linux
<erikh>
I mean to use it as a DoS vector
<whitequark>
erikh: >accidental
<whitequark>
there are quite a bit of large projects on github
<whitequark>
I definitely do not want to pull their source in any form
<erikh>
right, so do it by filenames, max per repo, count forks as the same repo
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<erikh>
yeah, then just pull the difffs
<erikh>
github likely tells you if it's binary or not
<whitequark>
hrm
<erikh>
no worse than git itself, at least.
<whitequark>
won't it be easier to just ask github for diffs then, and mail them out?
<erikh>
or, not MUCH worse at least
<whitequark>
s,mail,distribute,
<erikh>
right
<erikh>
that's actually exactly what i'm suggesting
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<erikh>
or do it pull style with atom or w/e
<erikh>
just with a background aggregator
<whitequark>
yeah, same principle
<erikh>
(so you can throttle it nicely)
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<zzak>
matti: thank you!
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<dingus_khan>
can someone point me to a source on regex's that isn't rubular or eloquent ruby that will explain this expression (particularly the '?=' part): /(?=\d)/
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<zzak>
dingus_khan: ri ruby:re
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<dingus_khan>
zzak: OK, after googling that, my best guess is that it's some sort of tool I install for my command line that will somehow provide me documentation/answers I'm looking for...?
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<zzak>
you should have it with the latest version of ruby
<dingus_khan>
whoa, I just tried typing in "ri" and it totally worked, hah. thank you!
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<dingus_khan>
except now I don't know how to look for things like extensions to regular expressions in ruby on it... :\
<zzak>
the "re" document contains regular expression info
<zzak>
try: `ri ruby:re`
<dingus_khan>
man I feel like an idiot
<dingus_khan>
that opened up what looked like VIM and it was blank
<zzak>
ive read that doc quite a few times, and i still suck at regex
<dingus_khan>
regex is pretty crazy, but impressive at the same time
<zzak>
dingus_khan: what version of ruby?
<zzak>
are you using rvm?
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<dingus_khan>
1.9.3, used RVM
<zzak>
install 2.0
<zzak>
you need latest ruby
<zzak>
otherwise you have to view the doc online
<dingus_khan>
ah, I've been told to only use 1.9.3 for now though, it's all the school I'm going to uses, they say 2.0 is full of broken things and I might die
<dingus_khan>
well a student said the die part
<zzak>
you can switch back pretty easy with rvm
<zzak>
it doesnt hurt to install it ;)
<havenwood>
dingus_khan: There is no dying involved. Its an easy update: rvm install ruby
<zzak>
plus, there was just a patch-level release to fix most of those!
<dingus_khan>
touche, I forgot about how convenient rvm is
<zzak>
and if there are still bugs, then they should be reported at bugs.ruby-lang.org!
<dingus_khan>
awesome! if I used the default rvm install command, it already came with 2.0, right? lemme check
<zzak>
update rvm first
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<havenwood>
dingus_khan: Yup. Just update rvm: rvm get latest (or rvm get stable)
<zzak>
you will probably have to generate docs after you install it too
<zzak>
i think its "rvm generate docs"?
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<dingus_khan>
I just installed rvm like yesterday I think, maybe day before, still need to update?
<havenwood>
dingus_khan: You're good.
<dingus_khan>
I've got 2.0 already, going to use generate docs now
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<dingus_khan>
so after generating the documentation using all the available use commands, and switching to 2.0.0, I still get what looks like a blank VIM document
<dingus_khan>
spacing it out like so: ri ruby : re gets me some kind of error page and some suggestions, also VIM-style
<zzak>
no space
<dingus_khan>
gotcha, tried it first with no spaces, still nada
<zzak>
it will open up in a vim-like viewer
<zzak>
dingus_khan: what does "ri ruby:" return?
<zzak>
i think rvm might mess with --page-dir
<dingus_khan>
it returns a vim-like view of a page that says " = Pages in ruby core" and then (END) two lines below that and that's it
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<zzak>
no pages listed?
<dingus_khan>
no sir/ma'am
<zzak>
:(
<dingus_khan>
I am also sad
<dingus_khan>
however, I'm excited I've learned about what ri is, at least in a basic sense!
<havenwood>
Seems to be rvm issue. I get pages listed with chruby and not so with rvm.
<havenwood>
dingus_khan: Could mention on #rvm.
<dingus_khan>
is chruby another version control system?
<dingus_khan>
ok, I'll head over there and mention it
<dingus_khan>
I'm a super-duper ultra noob when it comes to programming and software development in general, so I don't really know how to go about submitting a bug report... :(
<zzak>
if youre not comfortable i can do it
<havenwood>
dingus_khan: Yes, chruby sets your environment variables correctly for your selected Ruby. An alternative is rbenv, which makes shims instead of setting env vars.
<havenwood>
dingus_khan: RVM is the most popular of the bunch, you just ran into a bug!
<dingus_khan>
havenwood: you just went way above my head right there, hah. and yeah, I was told to use RVM, but I'm kinda excited that I'm experiencing a moment of evolution in the whole RVM scene!
<havenwood>
dingus_khan: No need to pay heed. RVM is a great choice. Alternatives like chruby and rbenv take a minimalist approach to solve a subset of the same problem RVM tackles.
<dingus_khan>
so should I just say, in the bug report, "ri documentation not working for regex extensions in 1.9.3 and 2.0.0"?
<dingus_khan>
I gotcha, thanks for the tip--I'll stick with RVM for the time being!
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<erikh>
got nothing done this week! \o/
<erikh>
and I went to maker faire so there's that.
<whitequark>
what do they have here these days?
<whitequark>
arduino workshops? :)
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<erikh>
this year was a little lighter, but yeah, usually
<erikh>
most of it is the product of builders, or at least it is on saturday
<whitequark>
builders ?
<erikh>
people who make stuff
<whitequark>
that's vague
<erikh>
motorized couches
<erikh>
a car with a bunch of those animatronic fish things attached and playing music
<erikh>
weird stuff people have built
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<erikh>
oh and the r2d2 collection
<erikh>
always amazing
<whitequark>
what is, in your opinion as a person who visited the event, the point of it?
<whitequark>
is it art?
<erikh>
a little of both
<erikh>
it's what other hack conferences want to be
<whitequark>
(both) art and what?
<erikh>
science!
<erikh>
well, sci/eng
<erikh>
there's a band you might have seen that performs there
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<erikh>
plays a guitar in a full chainmail suit
<erikh>
with two tesla coils ionizing the air to create the music
<whitequark>
I'll explain my point
<erikh>
sure
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<whitequark>
if it's art, I think it's ok. art is fine, we can't have too much of it
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<whitequark>
however, if the point of it is to showcase engineering, or science, or worst of all education, then, as it seems to me, such events are essentially celebration of ignorance.
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<whitequark>
for example:
<erikh>
there were a *lot* of engineers there.
<erikh>
this is more than a dog and pony show. it's a bit like ruby conf, right?
<erikh>
you have the people who go every year, know each other, hardcore rubyists
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<erikh>
then the tourists (I am msot definitely a tourist)
<whitequark>
you can go to the website of arduino and look at the description. "It's intended for artists, designers, hobbyists...", note how there is no "engineers" or "scientists" or even "programmers"
<erikh>
eh, artists and designers spend more
<erikh>
;)
<whitequark>
it's basically a toy. and it's totally fine! it's an excellent toy.
<erikh>
they don't have to sell it to us
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<whitequark>
however, when people begin to think that engineering starts and ends with doing stuff with arduinos, things go very wrong
<whitequark>
(this happens a lot, trust me)
<erikh>
we know what it is, we know it's an arm architecture and you use a C-alike to program it
<whitequark>
it's not arm ;)
<erikh>
don't confuse the marketing with the product.
<erikh>
it's not?
<whitequark>
avr
<erikh>
huh. I did not know that!
<erikh>
I don't know what avr is either so :)
<erikh>
keep meaning to get one, never get around to it
<whitequark>
8-bit core. it doesn't matter, I can tell you more afterwards
<erikh>
maybe after I do my bootloader project
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<erikh>
so, er, are you concerned that people not interested in a career in engineering might get confused as to what engineering is all about?
<whitequark>
erikh: no. I don't like when people take something which is not engineering and place it as such.
<erikh>
are you on facebook?
<whitequark>
nah
<erikh>
I have a ton of pictures up there.
<erikh>
and videos
<erikh>
it's not only an art thing.
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<whitequark>
and especially I don't like when such people then go make a Kickstarter and confuse even more folks around.
<erikh>
one of the interactive activities was "learn to solder", and I almost just took the day and did that.
<erikh>
'cause I've never been able to do it well
<whitequark>
erikh: that is good thing.
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<erikh>
but it's almost all stuff like that
<erikh>
see, they drag you in with the art and the big stuff
<whitequark>
(tesla coils) not sure if you know it, but the trick is age-old and very simple :)
<erikh>
and then almost all of the courses / activities are all hard nerd stuff
<erikh>
whitequark: oh, it's a show
<erikh>
they play black sabbath and the imperial march!
<erikh>
I mean, how awesome is that
<whitequark>
cool
<whitequark>
more specifically, cool art :)
<erikh>
exactly, it's basically the ren faire, but for engineers
<whitequark>
(I haven't seen that band but they're by far not the first one to come up with this)
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<andrewvos>
Speak to charliesome ;)
<yorickpeterse>
he's not here
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<zzak>
drbrain: "Eric does seem—as one of the top 32% most vulgar users on GitHub—to be a tad foul-mouthed (with a particular affinity for filthy words like 'hoe')."