<aw>
rc3-0x4d: after added an external pullup 10K to 3V3, still doesn't stay at a steady 3.3V level. ;-) it must be pulled low either on route loop or fpga's AB17 output failed. ;-)
<aw>
I now stop to check it and go for others. ;-)
<wolfspraul>
yeah
<wolfspraul>
sounds like next step for 0x4d is to replace the fpga?
<aw>
no, I would like to take x-ray rather than directly replace fpga, btw, i just realized that we currently no spartan-6 available though. It's out of this run.
<aw>
so we may need to prepare few right away. ;-)
<aw>
i could ask ALLtek vendor to know if have stocks next Monday and get some ones. :)
<wolfspraul>
the entire 0x4d case doesn't look too interesting to me actually. we are not trying to have a yield of 100%...
<wolfspraul>
much more important to figure out the flash and impedance issues, just move 0x4d to the end of the line
<aw>
sure...i am going to check others.
<wolfspraul>
having a few s-6 in stock is probably a good idea still, but I wouldn't stock more than 2 or 3 right now
<wolfspraul>
just if a very interesting case comes up, or if we really believe that a replacement can result in a sellable board, with high probability
<wolfspraul>
which will be rare, so 2 is enough :-)
<aw>
sure...so I still get them a call next Monday at least to check if they are available. ;-)
<aw>
okay
<aw>
now check 0x3e. ;-)
<aw>
0x3e: Impedance of TP33 (5V) is good that after took out u7/u19/u20, that was expected though. good news. ;-)
<aw>
0x3e: flashed successfully.
<roh>
re
<roh>
nice progess
<aw>
0x3e: now fully tested and rendered 10 times well.
<Artyom>
hi kristianpaul. Are you here?
<kristianpaul>
Artyom: hey
<kristianpaul>
Yes i still :)
<Artyom>
what is the time now in the place where you live? ;)
<Artyom>
How is your success with namuru?
<kristianpaul>
Buga, Colombia, 00:24
<kristianpaul>
(namuru) just realizing accum interrupt signals is asserted low just a after read starus register
<kristianpaul>
s/signals/signal
<kristianpaul>
Artyom: are you in moscow?
<Artyom>
yes, now i'm in msk
<kristianpaul>
i'm a bit lost, i tought accum interrupt flag had a constant rate of intterupts but seems is not..
<Artyom>
I can explain this behaviour
<Artyom>
Accum interrupt flag has a constant rate in case when you read status_reg fast enough
<kristianpaul>
yes i realized that today
<Artyom>
this is correct behavoir
<kristianpaul>
but accumulators behave same way?
<kristianpaul>
or they automcatically are overwritten?
<kristianpaul>
but this update is in sync with accum interrupt flag?
<kristianpaul>
yes, if i read faster that accum flag freq i guess
<kristianpaul>
yeah
<Artyom>
If you don't read accumulators within 1 ms then their value will be lost. (It will be overwritten by the new value)
<kristianpaul>
i'm polling accumulators right now, but results is just zero
<kristianpaul>
of course i dint implement the interrupt handling, thats the weekend task :)
<roh>
hey kristianpaul
<Artyom>
I did the same way: I used polling. ;)
<kristianpaul>
but i'm getting zeros..
<wolfspraul>
Artyom: good to see you. We have another very active member in Moscow, his nick is kyak
<wolfspraul>
just fyi :-)
<kristianpaul>
roh: i wanted to askyou if you work with air compressed engines in your hackerspace :)
<Artyom>
wolfspraul: Good to know that I'm not alone here ;)
<Artyom>
kristianpaul: you get zeros when you read accumulators?
<kristianpaul>
yup
<roh>
kristianpaul: not so much yet.. but we got a compressor now and some tools we will install
<roh>
one of our guys used it to spray on paint already, and we will install some piping to have compressed air outlets at multiple workspaces all the time
<roh>
i think it will be used mostly to clean stuff or to pump up bike tires
<Artyom>
kristianpaul: and what about status_register? Is is also all-zeros?
<kristianpaul>
let me check
<roh>
the compressor is noisy so it will go into the cellar below the hackspace (we can still hear it) and have remote power wiring to switch it on when needed only (it has a 50 or 80 litre reservoir, so it will only work intermittently)
<kristianpaul>
Artyom: zero indeed
<kristianpaul>
so accum_enable_s is not well. let me check that counter again i think i missed the accum_q = 0 on accum_enable counter ;)
<Artyom>
kristianpaul: btw. For now I have chosen slightly different way. I work a lot with softosgps. My aim is to extract all necessary only for making tracking loops. And to make it's soft-correlator close to namuru.
<Artyom>
my aim is to understand hard-gps receivers features. And osgps is very close to hardware receivers (unlike gps-sdr or matlab gps-receiver by Akos)
<kristianpaul>
Artyom: you mean you want to move tu pure soft correlation? no more hardware aid?
<kristianpaul>
actually i was working with only osgps in the past, just that i dint realized it dint worked with complex data
<kristianpaul>
that was before i switched the sige fronted to real mode of course
<kristianpaul>
well, should be easy in theory just a net stream from acquisition core
<kristianpaul>
and if it localhost much better :)
<kristianpaul>
is that what you mean right?
<kristianpaul>
but yeah osgps is very close, not simd dependent, portable C code, and i guess not so cpuhungry if you want to port to the arm board you told me last time
<kristianpaul>
may be 6 channels?
<Artyom>
I mean another ;) I want to make in software a program that will be very close to what I want to make in hardware. This will help me to check all algorithms in software because it is much easier and then I will switch to hardware.
<kristianpaul>
Artyom: ah, so you already undertood the soft pll algorythm from osgps? i never did.. :(
<kristianpaul>
when you mean switch to hardware will not be namuru? had you in mind starting a another correlator?
<Artyom>
Oh, yes. I can give you a couple of links (about PLL/FLL/DLL) that I consider very informative.
<kristianpaul>
may be using PLL's like the project you point me last week?
<kristianpaul>
(links) sure go ahed !
<kristianpaul>
i can add it to wiki later, sure
<kristianpaul>
for now i still making to work namuru first :)
<kristianpaul>
may be there is even a lib like fftw for PLL and related stuff somwhere :-)
<Artyom>
Anyway all my work is based on osgps and namuru (I don't want to invent a bicycle ;) )
<kristianpaul>
good :)
<Artyom>
The project that I gave you a link is interesting for me in a way how they debug their hardware. I tried to examine the code but it seemed too difficult for me...
<kristianpaul>
quoting wpwrak essays, famous last words :-)
<kristianpaul>
personally, i'm done with softcorrelation for now, namuru should work, but if a move to software based processing only it will be in the nanonote
<kristianpaul>
with milkymist hard aid is a must :)
<kristianpaul>
Artyom: i'm going bed now, getting  bachk in some hrs
<wolfspraul>
in the future I need to get this out little by little as it happens...
<wolfspraul>
but a solid roundup is still good for archival purposes and people who run into the project later, I think
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: every video has a download link now :-) makes your life a little easier
<wolfspraul>
most pictures are a lot smaller
<wolfspraul>
videos smaller
<wolfspraul>
still a few more touches then I'm ready for feedback again
<wolfspraul>
I put the Elphel Eyesis up there, including its price of 24,000 USD. A super cool piece of hardware, and all GPL licensed :-)
<wolfspraul>
this thing is really selling to Google Streetview competitors all around the world...
<wolfspraul>
Elphel gives GPL discounts btw
<wolfspraul>
done, feedback welcome
<rejon>
wolfspraul: yes, each item should just go out on the qihardware ping.fm account
<rejon>
which spreads to facebook, twitter, and identica
<rejon>
the barrier for news is too high
<rejon>
plus, sat not such a good day to launch news
<wolfspraul>
true, I won't push it out today
<wolfspraul>
and as for 'each item', well, let's just start :-)
<wolfspraul>
when we meet in a few days we can make a news push out plan, so I take on some regular update jobs and you take on others?
<wolfspraul>
if we coordinate will be better
<wolfspraul>
I can push this out Monday morning, I will use the usual rss feed (don't know how many subscribers), as well as discussion (about 350 subscribers) and announcement (about 950) mailing lists
<wolfspraul>
from that I typically get about 500-800 readers
<rejon>
wolfspraul: sounds good
<rejon>
i will help push out monday morning
<rejon>
on social media
<rejon>
and on fab blog
<wolfspraul>
perfect, yes. let's do monday morning asia time.
<wolfspraul>
8-8, lucky number :-)
<rejon>
:)
<rejon>
88 million dollars
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the "buy" section is a little weird ;-) but i see that you're carefully building up the expectations of prospective M1 buyers ;-)
<wolfspraul>
why is it weird? it lists available products, with links to shops
<wpwrak>
(download link) excellent !!
<wolfspraul>
well, thanks for reporting
<wolfspraul>
that's really helpful
<wpwrak>
well, atben/atusb are two similar but different products. and more confusingly, you usually need them as a pair - and indeed there's a combo :)
<wolfspraul>
small details that actually improve something :-)
<wpwrak>
and of course the eyesis is a little freakish ;-)
<wolfspraul>
that's why it's listed together
<wolfspraul>
we can change the price to the combo price
<wolfspraul>
not freakish at all
<wolfspraul>
I don't care how many people ignore Elphel, or how weird the founder is. Can you believe that they do really high-tech GPL licensed hardware since 2001?
<wolfspraul>
and that they give 'gpl discounts' :-)
<wolfspraul>
I think that's all very cool
<wolfspraul>
and these products are real, they are selling
<wpwrak>
if you put the combo price and write "atben+atusb" or maybe even "... combo", that would work, yes
<wpwrak>
(elphel) oh, they're cool, no doubt about it. but it's still a little outlandlish in this comparison. sort of: "bicycle, scooter, monthly pass for the train, space shuttle"
<wolfspraul>
the Elphel Eyesis would be a nice purchase for a university who really wants to push forward on copyleft high-tech
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
I would put a GPL licensed space shuttle there, definitely
<gnutoo>
what can you do with an Elphel?
<gnutoo>
for instance stuff that doesn't involve spying someone
<wolfspraul>
it's a camera
<wpwrak>
hmm, and what does "slow fidelity" mean ? reluctantly behaving decently ? sounds like the kind of expression rejon would dig up ;-)
<wolfspraul>
all from him
<wolfspraul>
an Elphel is a camera, first of all
<wpwrak>
gnutoo: not spying ? where's all the fun in it then ? :)
<wolfspraul>
Aptina CMOS sensor, hooked up to an fpga, hooked up to a regular (sort-of) CPU
<wpwrak>
hah, knew it ! ;-))
<wolfspraul>
the CPU is running Linux, the fpga is running a GPL licensed IC design, and the electrical design is published under gpl as well
<wpwrak>
"slow fidelity" is confusing for me. at first, it reads a bit like "slow trust", i.e., "initial distrust/scepticism that's overcome with time" (which would kinda make sense), but when i go into the proper definition of the word, the construct doesn't really make sense
<GNUtoo|laptop>
aobut the elphel camera, I always wondered what could be done with it that don't involve spying people
<wolfspraul>
I don't understand your question
<wolfspraul>
you mean every camera can 'spy on people'? what is your definition of 'spy'?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
like putting the camera in a street
<wolfspraul>
I just walked you through the design :-) Aptina CMOS sensor hooked up to fpga (xilinx-3) hooked up to CPU
<GNUtoo|laptop>
for instance law enforcement etc...
<wpwrak>
"observe without the observer being clearly evident" ;-)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
or monitoring licenses plates of cars
<wolfspraul>
well I still don't understand the question
<wolfspraul>
yes afaik a lot of high-speed traffic control cameras use fpgas as well
<GNUtoo|laptop>
theses 2 things are spying
<wpwrak>
let's ban all cameras. people can do evil things with them.
<wpwrak>
and let's not forget cable binders. very evil.
<wolfspraul>
GNUtoo|laptop: I can try to honestly answer your questions, but I need to understand them first :-)
<wpwrak>
needless to say, kitchen knives have to go, too.
<wpwrak>
and hot coffee. too easily weaponized.
<GNUtoo|laptop>
because the elphel camera looks like one that you put in a street
<GNUtoo|laptop>
because I don't see who from the community would buy such thing
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I'm not saying it's bad
<wolfspraul>
if you have such concerns, don't you think making a camera in a GPL licensed electrical design and with a GPL licensed IC design is a good thing?
<wpwrak>
in fact, anything involving heat or fire. or cables you could use to strangle someone. so no fridge either. a sandwich kept at room temperature laced with preservatives is perfectly suitable food for anyone.
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I'm trying to understand what good things it can be used for
<wolfspraul>
Elphel has nothing to do with 'spying', although it is quite possible that some of their customers are 'spying' (I am unable to define that right now)
<wolfspraul>
well
<wolfspraul>
a camera :-)
<wolfspraul>
it's a camera you can log into with SSH, and control a lot of the hardware with PHP
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ah in ephel.com I see that the camera are a lot smaller than I tought
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<wolfspraul>
and if you wnat to go pro, you can edit the IC design that is processing the raw data stream from the Aptina sensor
<GNUtoo|laptop>
can you do stuff with gstreamer?
<wolfspraul>
I think it can feed into it, probably
<GNUtoo|laptop>
wow nice
<wolfspraul>
they also had a hardware Ogg Theora encoder working in older models, but nobody cared so they stopped maintaining and improving it
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ah ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I really wonder what cool hacks can be done with it
<wolfspraul>
the one thing that would be really good for Elphel, and us, is if they would get more support on upstreaming stuff
<GNUtoo|laptop>
or cool stuff
<wolfspraul>
but I'm unable to help them on that as well, too much work
<wolfspraul>
well
<wolfspraul>
building upon your earlier question, one 'cool stuff' would be if a government mandated a 100% free and open design for all their traffic control cameras
<wolfspraul>
that way we could make sure that the data is only used for calculating a toll (for example), rather than for building a complete movement database for later data mining
<wolfspraul>
unless you think all cameras are bad, toll roads are bad, etc. then we don't need Elphel indeed.
<wolfspraul>
and also not Aptina, I guess
<wolfspraul>
or Omnivision
<wolfspraul>
Elphel's customer base is very diverse
<GNUtoo|laptop>
yes, the message of upstreaming stuff is hard to spread
<wolfspraul>
from farmers watching grapes grow and ripen
<wolfspraul>
to submarines
<wolfspraul>
to tanks
<wolfspraul>
to dentists
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
for farmers it's nice
<wpwrak>
(news) nit-picking ... if you can insert a line break in a list without the list looking weird, it may be a good idea to put line breaks between distinct focal points in one item. e.g., before "Earlier" in the mico32 core release.
<GNUtoo|laptop>
wow high altitude baloon, that's great too
<GNUtoo|laptop>
also it could be used for scientific purposes
<GNUtoo|laptop>
for instance bird watching
<GNUtoo|laptop>
anyway I already have a free software/free-but-not-copyleft camera
<wolfspraul>
which one?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
the bug2.0 + its camera module
<GNUtoo|laptop>
s/camera/hardware camera/
<wolfspraul>
the two important elements Elphel adds to the free part is the image processing in the fpga, as well as the free electrical design
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<wolfspraul>
nothing against your bug2.0, just saying :-)
<wolfspraul>
and Elphel is known for high-tech, stereoscopic cameras, omnivision cameras (eyesis), etc.
<GNUtoo|laptop>
the bug 2.0 is a standard omap + modules(like camera gps etc...)
<wolfspraul>
bookscanning cameras
<GNUtoo|laptop>
bookscanning is great
<GNUtoo|laptop>
could be used for gutinberg project
<wolfspraul>
Elphel 323 is a special bookscanning camera
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: combo, line break before 'earlier' - added
<wolfspraul>
the reason I like Elphel and I believe it's deeply in copyleft hardware land is because of their extensive and innovative use of lots of free software to drive the performance of their cameras
<wolfspraul>
if you build a breakout board of a proprietary IC, even if you publish the (very simple) schematics in Eagle, so what. maybe that's 'a drop' of copyleft hardware
<wolfspraul>
compared to that Elphel is more like a river :-)
<wolfspraul>
of course they could do much better, unfortunately the collaboration with other folks is lacking, partially because of the stallman-like personality of the founder
<wolfspraul>
imho
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I saw their GPL agreement, that's very nice
<wolfspraul>
he's a perfectionist, and has to do everything himself
<wolfspraul>
he's even innovating on PCB production techniques
<GNUtoo|laptop>
wow
<wolfspraul>
but working for him or with him must be a pain :-)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I'll go out, bbl
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: if you have more linebreaks or anything else, let me know
<wolfspraul>
currently release is planned for Monday morning
<wolfspraul>
from my side it's finished unless I get feedback
<wpwrak>
i would still make some of the images smaller. but maybe that's just me :) btw, instead of resizing, you can also cut out the central part. e.g., a thumbnail of adam's table could show less keyboard and monitor
<wpwrak>
(copyleft hardware explained) nice idea for a section ! that captures it very well
<wolfspraul>
thanks
<wolfspraul>
it was 'copyleft hardware theory' first
<wolfspraul>
but then I thought that's a real downer
<wolfspraul>
then some other even worse ideas, finally 'explained'
<wolfspraul>
added a few more line breaks, same idea as above (if I understood it right)
<wpwrak>
for a proper "theory" section, there would have to be a few differential equations ;-)
<wpwrak>
(line breaks) very nice ! they also increase the vertical text size a little, improving the text/image size balance. "Yi Zhang finished the Milkymist One box design" is still a bit lost between images, but i can't think of a quick fix :-(
<wpwrak>
since you have jon's talk twice (once the video, then the slides), maybe put a pointer from video to slides ? or maybe even in both directions ?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: btw, do you use "Free" to disambiguate from "gratis but that's all you get" ?
<wpwrak>
for the packageology, maybe a few introductory words would be good. e.g., "The names of component packages are often confusing and vary among manufacturers. This is Werner's first step (for small logic gates) towards a packageology."
<wolfspraul>
alright, one by one
<wolfspraul>
I try to stay away from ambiguous use of free
<wolfspraul>
so mostly I say 'free software', then it should be clear
<wolfspraul>
should :-)
<wolfspraul>
if I have to make a point I say free-as-in-beer or free-as-in-speech
<wolfspraul>
but that's ugly
<wolfspraul>
maybe I start to use libre more, don't know
<wpwrak>
for the anatomy of a datasheet, how about "Some data sheets don't contain all the information necessary to make Copyleft Hardware. Here is Werner's anatomy of a datasheet."
<wpwrak>
(i.e., include a problem statement)
<wpwrak>
(free) yeah, i was asking because of the "free scripted CAD tools". i'm sure there's a lot of "FREE CAD !!! DOWNLOAD 3 DAYS TRIAL VERSION NOW !!!"
<wpwrak>
(registration - with e-mail verification - required, naturally)
<wolfspraul>
linked jon's video and slides (slides point to video media page because the video above has no section entry)
<wolfspraul>
changed some text, more now
<wolfspraul>
well ok, what do you propose? software libre scripted CAD tools? nah
<wolfspraul>
scripted libre CAD tools?
<wolfspraul>
I think they will stay away from libre, so libre seems a safe choice.
<wolfspraul>
but I never used it before :-)
<wolfspraul>
only my recent openoffice apt-get update forced me to now launch 'libreoffice' instead of 'ooffice'
<wolfspraul>
I feel so libre
<wpwrak>
i tend to just capitalize "Free" in mid-sentence when i want to emphasize the nature
<wolfspraul>
btw, thanks a lot for helping me with introductions to your short little essays there
<wolfspraul>
I think they are very valuable and important, and those intros help a lot
<wolfspraul>
writing headlines for your little gem posts is not easy, unless I just copy/paste the subject line of your mail :-)
<wolfspraul>
or else it would require deep thinking...
<wpwrak>
being the self-serving bastard i am, i'm always happy to help people like my stuff better ;-)
<wolfspraul>
capitalized free, phew
<wolfspraul>
that's cheap, but ok
<wolfspraul>
wanna do that?
<wolfspraul>
just look at your example above :-)
<wolfspraul>
you already capitalized it all
<wpwrak>
it's simple and reasonably common :)
<wolfspraul>
FREE CAD !!! ...
<wolfspraul>
done
<wpwrak>
naw, FREE != Free. also, i wouldn't trust on "Free" working at the beginning of a sentence or in a title :)
<kristianpaul>
i had that idea since time ago, but i dont wanted to get ditracted
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul rejon this phrase does not communicate meaning (to me) "slow fidelity on the freedom channel"
<GNUtoo|laptop>
but my connection is very slow
<GNUtoo|laptop>
and even worse, I'll have no permanant internet in the next days
<GNUtoo|laptop>
basically I've a far wifi + a vpn
<kristianpaul>
and i think with last wpwrak discoveries about sd-like controller in the nanonote, we could sample raw data coming from the gps fronted and stream it to osgps by loopback interface
<kristianpaul>
just i dont want to get distracted up to that yet..
<kristianpaul>
first finish namuru support in software side :)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
you want it to compile for the jlime under nanote right?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
if I do it, will someone do the tests?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
because I've non nanonote
<kristianpaul>
ah.. i forgot, i tught you had one already :)
<kristianpaul>
well i can test yes, that dont take too much time
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
else I could ask someone else to test
<wolfspraul>
rjeffries: let's see what rejon thinks. I love it. Communicates a lot of meaning.
<kristianpaul>
also i wonder how it sell will perform,  fit display.. i have some dump for offline testing
<wolfspraul>
I'll catch up tomorrow...
<kristianpaul>
GNUtoo|laptop: so yes, thats something i wanted to do as another alternative for the gps free stack.. so if you can help will me awesome :)
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul what does that line of poetry mean to you? I am serious it has a nice ring, but doies not mean anything. ;)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I can try
<GNUtoo|laptop>
but I guarantee nothing
<kristianpaul>
osgps is just ansi C90, and a minor asm code that is not used by default and no need in the fure
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I'm not even sure to have the time to do it but if I do I'll try
<kristianpaul>
fure/future
<kristianpaul>
no rush just saying as you initially asked for news :-)
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul by the way, different topoiuc, as to ATben ATusb, I noticed that later in the document there is a good description. but at first mention as news item, descripotion assumes the reader knows what they are
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
it's dead simple
<GNUtoo|laptop>
oe_runmake works
<kristianpaul>
:-)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I got it for arm
<GNUtoo|laptop>
you need mips tough
<kristianpaul>
yes
<kristianpaul>
it compile on my yeeloong so i will on the nanonote
<kristianpaul>
actually i dint cross compiled as the current openwrt toolchain is for x86_64 :(
<GNUtoo|laptop>
so I guess I neeed to cross compile a jlime image
<kristianpaul>
s/i/it
<GNUtoo|laptop>
that require some space
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I'll have to make some space....
<kristianpaul>
or
<kristianpaul>
wait
<kristianpaul>
i'm okay with binaries
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I've no mips toolchain
<kristianpaul>
;)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
so I've to cross compile an image
<GNUtoo|laptop>
then I do that:
<GNUtoo|laptop>
bitbake devshell
<GNUtoo|laptop>
it create a devshell in tmpdir/deploy/addon/
<GNUtoo|laptop>
you source it
<GNUtoo|laptop>
you go into the osgps dir
<GNUtoo|laptop>
and type:
<GNUtoo|laptop>
oe_runmake
<GNUtoo|laptop>
wait some seconds
<GNUtoo|laptop>
and then you get a binary
<kristianpaul>
this oe_runmake is new isnt?
<kristianpaul>
looks very handy
<GNUtoo|laptop>
no
<kristianpaul>
oh
<kristianpaul>
:)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
it's a wrapper to make
<GNUtoo|laptop>
like make CC= LD= etc...
<GNUtoo|laptop>
with the right gcc the right -I etc...
<GNUtoo|laptop>
it's part of the devshell....
<GNUtoo|laptop>
since the Makefile is written correctly the result is that:
<GNUtoo|laptop>
file SoftOSGPS => SoftOSGPS: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, not stripped
<kristianpaul>
hum
<GNUtoo|laptop>
so I could schedule a build for you
<GNUtoo|laptop>
after compiling om-gta02 images with the new oe
<kristianpaul>
sure no hurry
<GNUtoo|laptop>
else if you have a fast enough x86 I can help you to do it
<GNUtoo|laptop>
it's not that hard
<GNUtoo|laptop>
maybe there is even a faster way: bitbake devshell directly without the image
<GNUtoo|laptop>
and if there are no huge deps it should work
<GNUtoo|laptop>
that'll keep the space usage minimal
<GNUtoo|laptop>
s/minimal/low/
<kristianpaul>
if do it here. it will be a openwrt minimal build i think..
<GNUtoo|laptop>
then use openwrt toolchain to compile that
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I've no idea how tough
<GNUtoo|laptop>
all I can offer is binary+howto or binaries+recipe
<kristianpaul>
for openwrt? ;)
<kristianpaul>
(kidding)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
for whatever
<GNUtoo|laptop>
let me look
<GNUtoo|laptop>
it only depends on libc:
<kristianpaul>
oh really. yes openwrt will be nice !
<GNUtoo|laptop>
0x00000001 (NEEDED)Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Shared library: [libm.so.6]
<GNUtoo|laptop>
0x00000001 (NEEDED)Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Shared library: [libc.so.6]
<GNUtoo|laptop>
so the binary will work on openwrt if openwrt uses eglibc/glibc
<GNUtoo|laptop>
if it doesn't it won't work
<kristianpaul>
yes, a openwrt makefile/feed whatever will be nice
<GNUtoo|laptop>
but I don't know how to make openwrt Makefiles
<kristianpaul>
also i can reuse it and try on milkymist ;)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I can only make a compatible package
<kristianpaul>
compatibl with openwrt?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I mean a binary that would run on openwrt
<GNUtoo|laptop>
what does openwrt uses as libc?
<kristianpaul>
ulibc?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
are you sure?
<kristianpaul>
no :(
<GNUtoo|laptop>
because I will have to build something close to openwrt
<GNUtoo|laptop>
like micro-uclibc distro
<kristianpaul>
:/
<kristianpaul>
better will be the openwrt makefile :-)
<kristianpaul>
take you time anyway.
<kristianpaul>
bbl
<GNUtoo|laptop>
yes of course but I don't know how to do that
<GNUtoo|laptop>
else I can do a jlime-compatible package and recipe
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: are you referring to the "buy" section ? or the one on testing/making atben/atusb ?
<rjeffries>
wpwrak the BUY section is fine. But that comes after the testing.making which could use an extra sentence or two. IMO
<rjeffries>
wpwrak how much have you studied the ingenic 4670 data sheet etc? and do we know if it is in full production, designed into shipping products?
<wpwrak>
(4760) superficially, hunt and peck style
<wpwrak>
(4760) wolfgang would have to get that information from ingenic
<wpwrak>
(wpan) hmm. maybe add "IEEE 802.15.4 wireless" to "Werner finished the design of the ben-wpan boards"
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: btw, what did the examination of the data sheet of that wlan chip yield ?
<rjeffries>
wpwrak you have different interests than I do. I was interested in the low-power draw. I apologize for having mentioned it here. My mistake.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak wolfspraul has lost interest in Ingenic SOCs. My objective observation.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I did read your document and learned a lot. Thank you.
<rjeffries>
Ingenic SOCs are a pretty good price/features/performance "bargain"
<rjeffries>
a next product that leverages everything learned by the Ben Nanonote experince could be interesting. I wonder what the required investmenbt would be, assuming one abandons need for consumer electronics stype case.
<wpwrak>
(low-power) you're referring to the wlan chip or to the 4760 ?
<wpwrak>
what would be the point of not having a good case ?
<wpwrak>
i don't think wolfgang has lost interest in ingenic. it's just that he's saturated with M1 for now.
<kristianpaul>
yeah
<kristianpaul>
i mean ingenic interest, we still in transition :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak my low-power comment was about the wi-fi chip. as to consumer electronics case for a nanonote follow-on, should ther eevery be one, it adds a lot of expense. the current nanonote case is too restrictive IMO.
<kristianpaul>
nice a openwrt xburst minimal image is kinda small, just 8Mb :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak ahile I understand you opinion re future nanonote case, we could get a nbew system done a lot faster if designing a case was a second effort.
<kristianpaul>
he, osgps run not so smoth on the nanonote.. :)
<tuxbrain_HxxHhzo>
kristianpaul:(osgps) you already had attached hardware to NN?
<wpwrak>
i don't think wolfgang has lost interest in ingenic. it's just that he's saturated with M1 for now.
<wpwrak>
oops
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yes, a care is expensive in terms of work and investment. but then, there's also a difference between a nanonote and yet another devel board :)
<rjeffries>
s/care/case  ;)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: that wouldn't preclude spinning off an interim prototype into a separate product, though. but i don't think the case for doing all this is very strong if all we aim for is yet another devel board
<rjeffries>
wpwrak too bad you dislike tablet form factor. a samll (7 inches would be my prefernce) copyleft tablet would be well accepted methinks. Case design isso much easier. oh wait, I forgot, BT is not allowed. so no Bluetooth keybards can be considered.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (wlan chip) ah, so you wanted me to review the technical specs for you, without actually intending this to be of any relevance for what we do. got me :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak do not fear I will not bother you again with that or other cvhips
<rjeffries>
said with a smile, never fear
<wpwrak>
(bt) find a sufficiently open BT chip and we can talk :) i don't share wolfgang's more fundamentalist positions regarding certain technologies, but simply questions of what chips we can use without running into massive technical troubles very often lead to very similar conclusions
<rjeffries>
wpwrak after 18 months of shipping the acceptance og Ben Nanonote is very low. Too soon to say how MM will do, that is a whole differnt kettle of fish.
<wpwrak>
you're preaching to the choir ;-)
<wpwrak>
one problem of the ben is also simply that it's "old". if exactly the same device was a new product today, it would probably draw as much attention as back then
<rjeffries>
if a person desires a small mobile device with high useability and functionality (e.g. can connect to the internet when you ar at a hotspot) then indeed a non-copyleft Android or similar product works well
<wpwrak>
that's also why i'm pushing for a ya. provide new meat ;-)
<rjeffries>
but I am drifting into the weeds, showing my lack of dedication to copyleft philosophy.
<wpwrak>
yes, i think android and iphone cover the communication-heavy sector well
<rjeffries>
ok serious business here:
<rjeffries>
what amount of engineering effort (ignore FOR THIS DISCUSSION) all teh associated and vital back end stuff
<wpwrak>
what's "back end stuff" ?
<rjeffries>
what would it take to do a fresh design using 4760 as SOC and going to a lot more memory, atc. if you wre the designers, how many man months of design?
<rjeffries>
procurement, manufacturing, testing all the non-design part.
<rjeffries>
in other words, new design all the way to board layout reday to go buy some PCBs
<rjeffries>
s/raday/ready
<wpwrak>
that means also a number of prototype runs, etc. or is that what you refer to as "back end" ?
<rjeffries>
i mean only design a new board, readyt to buy first 5 protos
<rjeffries>
I know not your fav engineer, but Carlos & friends did a quick hack to Nanonote to create the SAKC. I am sorry that stalled
<rjeffries>
alsthough the fpga aspecty was not my passion. I'd rather accomodate an AVR to get a lot of io capability. I know, you don't care for that idea either.,;)
<wpwrak>
you mean a paper exercise ? well, that would depend on the feature set. maybe a month if it's basically just the cpu. considerably more if you want a lot of peripherals or the peripherals are difficult to source. of course, since you're excluding any sort of design verification, one can just make arbitrary assumptions about the peripherals. it won't work anyway ;-)
<wpwrak>
i.e., what i'm saying is that this is not how you obtain anything usable. there is always feedback in the process. open loop never works. and very often, you need to test subsystems in isolation. not a full functional test, but you need to get actual devices and test them.
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain_HxxHhzo: nah, just was wondering first if the software can run decenlty
<wpwrak>
the problem of what carlos did was that the design wasn't suitable for industrial production. maybe their new ones are. maybe they're hand-soldering them. i like the simplicity of their latest SIE.
<kristianpaul>
major issue with SIE i have, was the switc from usb power and external source
<kristianpaul>
and i must confess i was waiting more IO, i think lot of IO from the fpga was wasted on that ADC, but off course is a personal opinion
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: SIE has long dropped the FPGA. now it's just the 472x, RAM, uSD, and NAND. technically, they could get rid of the NAND as well.
<kristianpaul>
i think SUE current SIe has noe fpga btw..
<kristianpaul>
oops ignore SUE part :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I though he had moved on to ARM based boards
<kristianpaul>
thats another projects
<rjeffries>
biab
<wpwrak>
yup, the ARM is technically much more demanding. BGA and all.