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<DocScrutinizer05>
enyc: AIUI wpwrak said kicad will crash when running over remote X
<MonkeyofDoom>
it's more surprising when an application of any complexity happens to *work* over X11 forwarding
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't really understand why. X11 is supposed to be a networked protocol
<MonkeyofDoom>
there are no modern applications which work using only the 1987-era original X11 protocol, for good reasons
<MonkeyofDoom>
current applications use all kinds of subsequent extension protocols
<DocScrutinizer05>
it been from beginning, and only stuff like video bypasses the socket and does direct write to framebuffer
<MonkeyofDoom>
which can also be spoken over a network, but refer to out-of-band resources like shared GPU and system memory
<MonkeyofDoom>
plus, applications written to work locally don't optimize for a minimal number of round-trips
<MonkeyofDoom>
and changing the latency of your synchronous communications from 0.01ms to 150ms can really ruin an application's day
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: it *may* be best to create a minimal chroot (which won't pollute/conflict package managers) to *run* the application in (doesn't need the building packages)
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: XVnc or just looking at the VirtualBox screen may be best to use the VM =)
<MonkeyofDoom>
^
<DocScrutinizer05>
150ms for local ssh into a VM??
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: yes..... or indeed just creating a non-managed virtualbox to just ''use'' locally
<MonkeyofDoom>
ah, not so much then
<MonkeyofDoom>
most of the loss in that case is just the different (non-shm, non-gpu, etc.) codepaths
<DocScrutinizer05>
VNC is a real time sink, introducing huge delay
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: what about just tnhe virtualbox graphical display of the vm launching an x server?
<DocScrutinizer05>
what about it?
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: run debian 'tasksel' and select desktop environments and it install tnhem .....
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: that may be a good way to just 'run' kicad
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: (still in the VM)
<DocScrutinizer05>
to start with, we need to understand the purpose of this VM which is to define the reference and common standard used in Neo900 project. This doesn't mandate that daily work gets done using this VM based KiCAD
<DocScrutinizer05>
and delays are pretty irrelevant for the reference implementation, since human brain can easily ignore them and still see what works which way in the reference tool
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: kk
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: main thing is -- is it working and is there anyting you are stuck on there ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
this is the purpose
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: so -- is it working? what tests have you done with kicad?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
so far I didn't get it starting yet, since the VM lacks X11
<enyc>
since you've snapshotted it....
<enyc>
'i suggest just using debian 'tasksel' to install debian desktop of some form
<DocScrutinizer05>
and since wpwrak said remote X via ssh makes KiCAD crash, I didn't really push that direction any further
<enyc>
i reccomend MATE (if available/convenient) or XFCE, no need gnome3 or kde -- lxde (even more minimal) works for some too
<DocScrutinizer05>
enyc: I have no idea what's debian tasksel
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: try it, as root, just run 'tasksel'
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, but right now I'm busy with other tasks. Maybe in 30 min
<enyc>
you should be bale to easily select a basic desktop etc that way without 'faff'
<enyc>
^^ keep note of above, anyway, ok ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, well, typing tasksel<enter> was easy enough
<enyc>
if you've used vagrant snapshot presumably you can 'roll back' to before adding desktop etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll tell it to install... what? XFCE?
<enyc>
>> i reccomend MATE (if available/convenient) or XFCE, no need gnome3 or kde -- lxde (even more minimal) works for some too
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<DocScrutinizer05>
iirc devuan default is xfce
<enyc>
that should do fine
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll ask them
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<DocScrutinizer05>
MATE available too
<DocScrutinizer05>
Xfce for some reason has cursor/focus on starting tasksel
<DocScrutinizer05>
((if you've used vagrant snapshot)) didn't manage to do that, the vagrant cmdline tool rejects syntax explained on- and c&p'ed from - the vagrant web docs
<DocScrutinizer05>
`vagrant package` however created a package.box that has it all and is supposed to be at least as good as a snapshot
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<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: good
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2016-07-14 Thu 15:50:02] <Leander256> the default one at install time is xfce
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: also, i agree with ase others about mate vs xfce vs lxde ...
<enyc>
I very much suspect for this use case 'it doesnt make much difference'
<DocScrutinizer05>
I actually planned to run KiCAD *instead* of desktop manager
<enyc>
right... lots of ways to do allsort
<enyc>
but really really not worth faffing with, just use whatever 'default' desktop works and lets you launch kicad fullscreen, no problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway let's install xfce, it seems the simplest approach
<enyc>
if its really worth ''optimizing'' in some way, do that
<enyc>
later, when appropiate
<DocScrutinizer05>
tasksel: apt-get failed (100)
<DocScrutinizer05>
*sigh*
<DocScrutinizer05>
devuan
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<DocScrutinizer05>
GRRR
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: well can always create a xenial or debian jessie chroot or vm ;p
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's a nonsensical approach
<DocScrutinizer05>
#devuan /topic : >>Work in progress on package repository, errors are known and temporary (BETA rumble time) - https://devuan.org/<<
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<wpwrak>
i guess this is a really good torture test for devuan. you may be the first one trying to build kicad under it :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I succeeded
<DocScrutinizer05>
what fails is dead silly xfce installation
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess I'll try apt-get install x11-common for a start
<wpwrak>
maybe install xterm or such ?
<wpwrak>
just to get "the usual" dependencies out of the way
<DocScrutinizer05>
apt-get install xterm?
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: can try that sort of approach... login to local tty and startx or some other approach
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: probably
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: remember packages.debian.org can help with finding things
<wpwrak>
(xterm) yup
<DocScrutinizer05>
xterm is already the newest version.
<DocScrutinizer05>
xterm set to manually installed.
<DocScrutinizer05>
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 102 not upgraded.
<wpwrak>
kewl. then these basics are covered
<DocScrutinizer05>
no startx
<enyc>
without a window manager things won't be happy cant resize windows etc
<wpwrak>
now you need a window manager (newspeak: "desktop"). for the abslute bare minimum, you could use twm
<enyc>
normally one installs debian desktop blah
<DocScrutinizer05>
is this xdm?
<enyc>
no thats a dispay manager
<wpwrak>
xdm is session management
<enyc>
display manger autolaunches x server and gives login window etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, but somehow I need to start X11, no?
<enyc>
lightdm or xdm or whatever
<enyc>
yes manually or via display manager
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: startx :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2016-07-14 Thu 16:14:39] <DocScrutinizer05> no startx
<wpwrak>
it's mainly single-window (unlike, say, gimp), but i'd still expect problems. i mean, even dialogs will be confusing
<DocScrutinizer05>
whatever, first install kicad
<wpwrak>
but just fire up a wm and you're fine
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: also you want to startx AS A USER
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: not running as root
<wpwrak>
enyc: naw, no problem with root. i do that all the time :)
<enyc>
wpwrak: it may work here but still bad practice
<DocScrutinizer05>
whatever, first install kicad
<enyc>
some applications even refuse
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: so dpkg -i the releavant deb files
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: also you may then need apt-get -f install for *runtime* dependencies
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<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: when you start a window manager (from your xterm), it will automatically take care of window management. you don't even need to restart things or such. to start more things after, you can then either use whatever the wm offers to do it (typically a window you get by left or right clicking on the empty background), or you can background the wm in your xterm and start new things from there
<DocScrutinizer05>
damn, I was in the 32bit VM
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's what you get (and deserve) for "just doing that one thing quickly despite other task pending"
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: so, install xterm and xfwm4 and dpkg -i the kicad deb file
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: ok wel maby estop talking here nad do other task for now =)
<wpwrak>
get a window manager :) your user experience will be very weird without one
<DocScrutinizer05>
obviously :-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
first: get a decent virtual display resolution in this VM
<wpwrak>
yes, full-screen is important :)
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<enyc>
with guest-additions + full xfce / x11 i would expect you can 'resize' on the fly
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: you will want some user-account to 'login' to xfce with, noting this may change permissions for vbox//vagrant shared directories as if runnig as a user different to 'compile' ....
<pigeons>
there is a corresponding *.vbox preference file for each image
<pigeons>
i dont know if vagrant respects it
<DocScrutinizer05>
now I can get fullscreen from VM, but the xserver seems still operating on a 640*400 resolution. Time to hack the xorg confiig in VM now, I guess
<DocScrutinizer05>
this might get nasty
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: with normal virtualbox-in-linux thats not needed
<DocScrutinizer05>
err?
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: err linux in virtualbox, with guest additions installed
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: normally linux can just be resized just-like-that
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, then something different is needed
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: maybe the guest addinions need reinstalling now x11 is installed
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<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: then reboot vm
<DocScrutinizer05>
so let's give that a try
<R0b0t1>
Wizzup: no I recovered the secret key from the SIM by analyzing data that was mapped into system memory
<R0b0t1>
I can auth to the network without a SIM in the phone
<R0b0t1>
I got drunk and high and fell asleep so didn't get a video last night
<DocScrutinizer05>
enyc: apt-get force-install or what was the magic incantation?
<zakx>
yesterday, guest additions in the VM were too new (or rather DocScrutinizer05's host virtualbox was too old, still 4.x)
<zakx>
i suppose that is the first issue to look at
<wpwrak>
R0b0t1: (recover secret key) isn't that supposed to be impossible ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: yes it is
<wpwrak>
as in "secret key isn't supposed to ever leave the SIM"
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
zakx: then I prolly got a problem
<wpwrak>
good. so reality hasn't massively shifted while i wasn't paying attention :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
SIM doesn't map anything into modem's memeory
<Wizzup>
R0b0t1: why would they store that stuff in memory? that doesn't make sense
<Wizzup>
Or is this about the recent snapdragon attack
<R0b0t1>
if I tell you how I did it you get drone striked
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: maybe R0b0t1 has an Apple SIM ;-)
<R0b0t1>
Wizzup: statistical analysis of network data
<DocScrutinizer05>
that works
<Wizzup>
R0b0t1: I'm not sure there's something that you can tell me that will improve that chance
* R0b0t1
reads about the snap dragon attack
* R0b0t1
gets plants vs zombies
<R0b0t1>
Wizzup: link?
<R0b0t1>
Wizzup: it turns out that homotopy based type theory WAS useful for something
<DocScrutinizer05>
(resolution) let's start with: how would I find out about the supported resolutions of a GFX card (even if virtual)?
<R0b0t1>
you get it to enumerate them, but generally they support all resolutions
<R0b0t1>
oh thank fuck now I can finally use qemu on the newer chips
<R0b0t1>
Wizzup: yeah not directly, though the modems use ARM
<R0b0t1>
;) ;)
<R0b0t1>
the software seems to follow aviation practices and some papers I'd read that deal with security, but they set it up in a retarded way
<DocScrutinizer05>
R0b0t1: maximun non-helpful. obviously the VM framebuffer lacked memory for the 1920*1080 resolution I requested, so it did _not_ support it
<R0b0t1>
and pick funny names
<R0b0t1>
DocScrutinizer05: well that's redefining what "support" means
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe for you
<R0b0t1>
well I'm American and the only one that matters
<R0b0t1>
;) ;) ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm not even mildly interested
<R0b0t1>
ditto!
<R0b0t1>
oh man this guy already knows the jokes
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<DocScrutinizer05>
Some examples of specifying server arguments follow; consult the manual page for your X server to determine which arguments are legal.
<DocScrutinizer05>
startx -- -depth 16
<DocScrutinizer05>
startx -- -dpi 100
<DocScrutinizer05>
startx -- -layout Multihead
<DocScrutinizer05>
(man startx)
<DocScrutinizer05>
on a isdebore: /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc:: exec /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp "$@"
<DocScrutinizer05>
tcp!
<R0b0t1>
X11 forwarding?
<DocScrutinizer05>
we had that topic yesterday
<DocScrutinizer05>
X11 is a networked protocol
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway re resolution: ages ago it was possible to cycle through possible (and enabled) X resolutions interactively with ctrl-alt-+/-
<DocScrutinizer05>
iirc
<DocScrutinizer05>
not any more
* R0b0t1
has a heart attack
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd expect to be able to invoke something like startx -- -1920*1080; though I guess the syntax is different
<DocScrutinizer05>
Screen 0: minimum 64 x 64, current 1400 x 1050, maximum 32766 x 32766
<DocScrutinizer05>
about time to get a displaymanager (or at least window manager) I guess
<DocScrutinizer05>
well actually there's still sth fishy
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<DocScrutinizer05>
xrandr: VGA-0 connected 800x600+0+0 0mm x 0mm
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm fed up with this now, going 'Virtualbox'
<R0b0t1>
ok DocScrutinizer05 let me tell you how this is going to work
<R0b0t1>
not what you should be doing, just what will happen
<R0b0t1>
you'll keep getting fed up until you switch to gentoo
<DocScrutinizer05>
please stop that
<R0b0t1>
sorry, I guess. though I am kind of unnerved this is the first time you're doing *real* development.
<R0b0t1>
oh come on you already have my money, I get to ride your ass :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<R0b0t1>
ok ok back in your box then
<Wizzup>
DocScrutinizer05: on xorg.conf you can set the resolution
<Wizzup>
Let me find it for you
<Wizzup>
you need a basic xorg.conf config, and then put in *something* like this: http://sprunge.us/WdEj
<Wizzup>
You don't want a lof of what is in there, but the Mode part is relevant, and you need the serverlayout+screen+device
<DocScrutinizer05>
I just started an ubuntu14.04 in Virtualbox which turns out to be a vagrant box (precise64) too, and I ran into login screen where I have no idea which user:password to use to log in ;-P
<Wizzup>
well, vagrant/vagrant?
<DocScrutinizer05>
\o/
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway that ubuntu has kicad in package manager for installation, but... version 0.0.20110616
<DocScrutinizer05>
virtualbox also doesn't help with the resolution, it simply has no setting for the res of a VM
<DocScrutinizer05>
so back to Wizzup's advice
<Wizzup>
can you give me some context
<Wizzup>
you're trying to use virtualbox, but X doesn't work well out of the box?
<DocScrutinizer05>
edit xorg.conf
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, the display is 800*600
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm afraid zakx might be right it's an issue of guest extensions maybe
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<DocScrutinizer05>
though... that ubuntu VM also came up with that crappy tiny window, and even login screen was only 1024*768 or sth, after login it switched to decent resolution
<DocScrutinizer05>
so we're ready for some real tests now :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
many trhanks to all who helped
<DocScrutinizer05>
Wizzup: so I'd create a xorg.conf (Xorg.conf?) with the stuff I need?
<Wizzup>
I would just type xrandr -s 1920x1080 when you tart
<Wizzup>
start*
<Wizzup>
Generating an xorg.conf is annoying and difficult
<Wizzup>
maybe xfce even remembers your current config
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, could add that somewhere to startup I guess
<Wizzup>
try to launch xfce's monitor applet
<DocScrutinizer05>
monitor applet?
<Wizzup>
search around in the xfce settings and see if you find some monitor thingie
<Wizzup>
I don't know the name of it
<Wizzup>
maybe display settings
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
Wizzup: looks good
<Wizzup>
:)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: so far xfce and also basic stuff in kicad (open menu etc) feels *more* snappy in VM than on my genuine bloated KDE desktop ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
so let's resume: running tasksel a second time to install xfce - where it skipped the pkg download and went right to installing and configuring a only 520 pkgs, first time it downloaded 620 - results in xfce coming up right with 'vagrant up', prolly now after a xrendr -s 1920x1080 even with correct resolution
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm no, xrandr -s 1920x1080 still needed after vagrant up and login
<wpwrak>
(kicad package in ubuntu) yes, the regular package is hopelessly outdated. you want the ppa with the daily build.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, we've already 'solved' that one
<wpwrak>
(libs) i don't use the kicad default libs. they're poor quality. i usually create a new .pro file, then edit out all the libs and put in the ones from qi-hw.
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
so you create each resistor and gate by your own?
<wpwrak>
maybe the new kicad library project has better stuff.
<wpwrak>
well, it's one resistor symbol :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
here none
<DocScrutinizer05>
no symbol at all, I omly can draw wires
<DocScrutinizer05>
with is sorta pointless
<wpwrak>
indeed :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
though lightning fast ;-D
* DocScrutinizer05
idly muses about attding the xrandr -s stuff to /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<DocScrutinizer05>
adding*
<wpwrak>
$HOME/.xinitrc ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmm
<DocScrutinizer05>
no such file
<atk>
you probably use a display manager
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, xfcm
<wpwrak>
(no such file) create it ? :)
<wpwrak>
it's simply a shell script
<atk>
It wouldn't do much if he created it, it would never get ran.
<atk>
Unless xfcm somehow goes out of its way to run it
<atk>
but that would be weird since it could accidentally end up starting a window manager that way.
<wpwrak>
yes, .xinitrc should invoke whatever should run. so, end it with xterm or (better) the window manager
<atk>
Absolutely it would be a really bad feature (at least from the point of view of someone who uses startx to start x) if a display manager tried to source .xinitrc randomly
<wpwrak>
and maybe add "xterm" at the end, just in case
<atk>
But if he's using xfcm then he isn't using startx/xinit
<wpwrak>
is xfcm a display manager ? or a window manager ?
<wpwrak>
and isn't it called xfce ?
<atk>
well, indeed xfcm isn't a thing, and xfce is a desktop environment
<atk>
but if DocScrutinizer05 doesn't have an xinitrc then it's quite likely he isn't running xfce from there
<DocScrutinizer05>
typo, xfce
<wpwrak>
atk: regarding .xinitrc, i think startx invokes xinit, and xinit executes .xinitrc
<atk>
DocScrutinizer05: the display manager is the thing that you put your username and password into, it's separate from the desktop environment
<atk>
wpwrak: yes, this is correct
<DocScrutinizer05>
nfc what this is
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's coming up in 800*600 anyway
<DocScrutinizer05>
any nothing but a text box to type in user name
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: *dm are the things that give you login screens. if you start from a "console" and just fire x11 up with startx, you don't have any of that
<DocScrutinizer05>
then password
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know
<wpwrak>
ah, now you're adding a display manager then
<atk>
that sounds quite like a display manager
<DocScrutinizer05>
it is
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it came with xfce
<wpwrak>
adding a DM changes things. so you then have to find out what new rules apply
<atk>
xfce doesn't come with a DM but it is possible that your distribution pulled in a generic one as a dependancy
<atk>
something like lightdm or something, it's not really important though
<atk>
Or well, it might be.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I installed xfce via tasksel and that's what resulted from it
<DocScrutinizer05>
adding /usr/bin/xrandr -s 3447289x6754 to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ as 99xrandr didn't do anything either. possibly those files are not even executed but rather sourced or parsed
<atk>
Looks a bit like SLiM
<jonsger>
why do you need a vm?
<atk>
DocScrutinizer05: you probably need to install the guest video drivers
<atk>
DocScrutinizer05: if you're running in a vm
<DocScrutinizer05>
atk: there's no problem with video, only with config
<atk>
I didn't realise you were running in a VM (could have told you 20 mintues ago)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can switch to 1920y180 just fine, manually
<atk>
Ah, the correct way to set that by default would be by configuring X not by trying to run xrandr at the right time
<DocScrutinizer05>
either with xrandr -s or with xfce display
<atk>
But xfce should give you some settings to do that permanently
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, that's what Wizzup already said
<DocScrutinizer05>
alas it's not permanent
<atk>
(Also, don't use xorg.conf, use xorg.conf.d)
<DocScrutinizer05>
when I do it in xfce
<DocScrutinizer05>
I suspect xfce comes up in same resolution as the DM
<atk>
wow, the version of dropbear in the N900 repositories is from 2008
<atk>
I need an SSH client which isn't likely to expose my server to some kind of silly vulnerabilities. I wonder how much work it would be to get a recent version of openssh on there...
<DocScrutinizer05>
use openSSH
* atk
has never compiled anything for debian
<DocScrutinizer05>
dropbear is dead
<atk>
the openssh version is also from a long time ago :P
<atk>
dropbear is still being developed today
<atk>
things like openwrt rely on it
<atk>
Unless you mean on the N900 (in which case, you're going to have to tell me where I get a recent version of OpenSSH for N900 :P)
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, the N900 maemo openSSH pkg will at least see *some* maintenance possibly. Dropbear won't afaik, never heard anybody bothering about it
<atk>
hmm, OpenSSH 5.1 is also from 2008 :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
atk: I got no /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
<atk>
create it
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok
<atk>
(It's usually not there, so that's not unusual)
<DocScrutinizer05>
(openSSH) check maemo-devel
<atk>
alright
<atk>
Is it safe to just use the -devel repositories as repositories for _everything_ ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no idea if there's a newer version there
<DocScrutinizer05>
not for _everything_, particularly not for updates
<atk>
So far I followed the instructions to set apt to use the versions from extras over extras-devel unless I explicitly tell it to
<DocScrutinizer05>
indiscriminate updates that is
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<atk>
I guess I'll do the same for maemo-devel
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's right
<atk>
(This phone is a few short steps away from being a drop-in replacement for my newer phone which I don't like anymore)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I enable extras-devel to install a certain package and then immediately disable again
<atk>
ah, I have extras-devel, there's no newer version of openssl there
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah sorry
<DocScrutinizer05>
you got cssu?
<atk>
I guess I'll continue looking for a list of CVEs that affect the version I have
<atk>
Yes
<atk>
cssu-thumb
<DocScrutinizer05>
then you're fine
<atk>
(I feel that maybe it's placebo or maybe things run much smoother with the cssu, N900 doesn't ever hit its memory as it used to)
<DocScrutinizer05>
/join #maemo-ssu and ask about openssh
<atk>
(well, with the -thumb variety)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know ssh been a frequent topic discussed there
<DocScrutinizer05>
ssh, ssl, et al
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm not keeping track, but other devels do
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's a problem with some libs that are not easily updated iirc
<DocScrutinizer05>
but that might have been ssl
<atk>
probably ssl
<atk>
openssl is prone to vulnerabilities, a bit like flash and wordpress but not as often, probably why people are more surprised when openssl has a major failure as opposed to when flash lets random people on the internet execute random binaries as administrator on windows
<atk>
probably plenty more holes in the older linux version
<atk>
(A reason why I've been wondering if I can somehow get rid of flash from the N900)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
[ 10.078] (II) VESA(0): Not using mode "1920x1080_60.00" (no mode of this name) :-/
<atk>
Although to be honest, depending on which website on the matter you consult, you get 15 different variants of RandR with an X somewhere in the middle
<atk>
but the extension seems to be called RandR
<atk>
and the tool xrandr
<Humpelstilzchen>
no thats correct, the extension is without the x
<atk>
DocScrutinizer05: VBoxVideo
<atk>
maybe try that as the driver?
<DocScrutinizer05>
this is the driver?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, this is with driver commented out
<atk>
"vboxvideo", I think so
<DocScrutinizer05>
so, as you assumed, it gets picked automatically
<DocScrutinizer05>
just my modeline is incorrect I guess
<atk>
but if you comment out the driver, does it even complain about the modeline?
<atk>
(If it doesn't, I think it's because it just ignored your config since the driver might be a required part
<atk>
This would be far easier if we just read the docs on the matter :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, didn't see the wrong modeline bitching
<atk>
Alright, well try setting the driver to "vboxvideo" after uncommenting, and have a look if it shits itself again
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, I add driver: VBoxVideo
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
I give up
<atk>
(just make sure it's lower case, it might be case sensitive (to be honest, it probably is)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok
<atk>
(I say this because: "[ 10.152] (==) Matched vboxvideo as autoconfigured driver 0"
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, that's enough for today
<atk>
An "off topic" question again: What battery do you use for your N900? I just bought a PolarCell BL5J replacement (1.5Ah instead of 1.32) and at first glance it seems to really be doing a good job holding the battery as opposed to my old bl-5j that came with it)
<atk>
DocScrutinizer05: did it work at all?
<atk>
By the sounds of it, no.
<DocScrutinizer05>
same as always - well with 1920*1080 available as alternative res in the 800*600 screen
<DocScrutinizer05>
so same as almost always (except when we had driver: vesa)
<atk>
What setup do you have in your VM, I might have a go at setting up a working qemu for you and hosting the disk image somewhere for you to download (along with a script on how to run qemu to use it) a good question: do you need internet to work in this VM?
<atk>
Any chance xfce provides tools to run something at startup? (or maybe even the DM if you can work out which DM you're using)
<DocScrutinizer05>
atk: this is virtualbox with everything working now, except initial res annoying
<atk>
yes, but which distribution :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
devuan
<atk>
Also, can you send me that config file?
<DocScrutinizer05>
which one?
<atk>
the xorg one
<DocScrutinizer05>
err, the one I made?
<atk>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<atk>
I'll cross reference it against the log to see if maybe there's something wrong with it, like it's trying to set the default mode for an imaginary screen
<DocScrutinizer05>
sometimes I wish I wouldn't have to deal with a DSL with only 1Mbit uplink
<DocScrutinizer05>
on a sidenote 1&1 now offers fiber to the home, fast as lightning but cost an arm and a leg, like 200 bucks per month plus 2000 for installation
<DocScrutinizer05>
either that, or ADSL16 since "no fiber in my region" - WTF??
<DocScrutinizer05>
when they claim they have a way to get fiber to my home, from within 500m, how can't they get fiber to the DSLAM in the next box and do copper from there for ADSL100?
<R0b0t1>
their business is collecting rent, not building infrastructure
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: Succeess ?? as in kicad just works happily with a sensible user login and shared drive that that user can use to store work in host system ?
<enyc>
21:07 < atk> DocScrutinizer05: apparently if you install the VirtualBox guest additions it fixes the default resolution sillyness
<enyc>
^^ i think it MAY be needded to reinstall the virtualbox guest additions, now that x11 is there... that may then allow users of the virtual whatnot to resize the window at their own will ...
<enyc>
ot sure though, but i would not assume virtualbox addons are 'properly' in there for x11 bits
<DocScrutinizer05>
enyc: everything works just fine
<DocScrutinizer05>
incl window resizing
<DocScrutinizer05>
and now even initially picking right window size / virtual display resolution
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<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: yay
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: so once you chose right video driver etc. ? all ok?
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: logging in to xfce4 using the display manager ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can still switch it to 1920x1080 with xrandr -s 1920x1080 ('funny' enough, now the "settings"-"display" tool fails to do the same), but that is not persistent
<enyc>
quit while you're ahead at the moment
<enyc>
just resizing the window is not a faff ;p
<enyc>
then it stays there while you are running
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't need to resize any window
<enyc>
i suspect, if you *re install* the 'virtualbox guest additions' inside that vm, it MAY fix it.... it MAY well not have installed the x11 part of addons, as it wasn't installed at the time
<enyc>
that MAY fix the autosizing
<enyc>
worth a try
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll happily try it if you tell me how
<enyc>
you installed virtualbox guest addihions before... downloaded iso etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
but I guess the problem is rather lightDM or what's the name
<enyc>
do you still have virtualbox-guest-additions-5.0.18.iso or whatever-it-was in there?
<enyc>
MAYBE, but this is worth a shot
<enyc>
would you have downloaded into /root ?
<enyc>
you wget'ed the .iso file
<DocScrutinizer05>
note that DM is comming up in correct resolution
<enyc>
yes
<enyc>
so some of it may be working but not all, good question
<enyc>
worth a try still
<DocScrutinizer05>
while DM starts the xfce session in 800x600
<enyc>
yes
<enyc>
if this doesn't fix it trying different DM may help
<enyc>
but
<enyc>
just try it grr
<DocScrutinizer05>
in a 1920x1080 window
<enyc>
-> you wget'ed the .iso file -> would you have put it in /root ??? deleted it already ???
<DocScrutinizer05>
deleted it
<enyc>
ok
<enyc>
now starting to get somewhere
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd rather happily delete the whole DM
<enyc>
you MAY well fix it by just re-running the vboxguestaddihions installer inside that iso ....
<enyc>
now that x11 is installed etc
<enyc>
it may well just 'do its thing' and 'just fix it'
<enyc>
mkdir /mnt/guestadditions; sudo mount -o loop VBoxGuestAdditions_5.0.18.iso /mnt/guestadditions
<enyc>
cd /mnt/guestadditions
<enyc>
sudo ./VBoxLinuxAdditions.run
<enyc>
(this time it wont warn about missing x11 of course)
<DocScrutinizer05>
sudo doesn't work
<enyc>
well run as root
<enyc>
you get idea
<enyc>
everything you need to know is above
<enyc>
please try efficiently and reboot guest and see if any change
<DocScrutinizer05>
will try, but not now. I'm exgausted
<enyc>
how will you keep hold of the notes above so not 'lose them' for when ready?
<DocScrutinizer05>
also I need to revert the >>> "Adding a resolution to the xorg.conf file will disable the dynamic resolution change function of the Guest Additions." <<<
<enyc>
yes very likely
<enyc>
then hopeuflyl it should just follow the size of the surrounding box, even when 'logged in' =). that SHOULD be able to work
<DocScrutinizer05>
one problem: now the box starts into X11 right away when coming up. And iirc this is not supported for installing GA
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe I could change runlevel
<DocScrutinizer05>
after all this is devuan, so no friggin systemd
<DocScrutinizer05>
init 2 or somesuch might do
<enyc>
err no guestaddiitions is fine you just install it theres no problem with systems that autoboot a display manager
<enyc>
thats infact the most NORMAL configuration
<DocScrutinizer05>
root@devuan:~# init 1
<DocScrutinizer05>
root@devuan:~# Connection to 127.0.0.1 closed by remote host.
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
so back to init 2 - if I can get it there
<enyc>
use consoe ?
<enyc>
virtualbox window
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<DocScrutinizer05>
well, no, that was easy, just ctrl-S in console
<DocScrutinizer05>
ctrl-D
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<enyc>
=)
<DocScrutinizer05>
console sucks, it's 640*400 and no c&p and US kbd and...
<enyc>
lol i remeber a friend of mine discovered ctrl-S by mistake ;p
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehehe
<enyc>
and though found some fundamental bug in C library or somesuch
<enyc>
but no... its just XOFF and you press ctrl-Q ;p
<DocScrutinizer05>
...until he discovered ctrl-Q
<enyc>
exactly
<enyc>
consel is 'good enough' for rebooting it if you screwed it up ;p
<enyc>
did you uphate / dist-upgrade the devuan machine ooi ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd however like to redo this after moving my xorg.config out of the way
<enyc>
nods try booting with and without xorg.conf =)
<enyc>
what has the guest additions put in ther e?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no dist-upgrade. That's pointless on devuan anyway
<enyc>
it may have changed the config
<enyc>
its normal to do upgrade to all security updaes of packages etc.
<DocScrutinizer05>
security updates are momentarily broken in devuan, and this isn't really an online machine anyway
<enyc>
k
<enyc>
anyway
<enyc>
just doublecheck uname -a
<enyc>
and COLUMNS=256 dpkg -l | grep linux-headers
<enyc>
thinking about it ... it probably MUST have right headers because it built modules ;p
<enyc>
comment out any custom resolution in xorg.conf and reboot and see if it works ????
<DocScrutinizer05>
about to do that
<DocScrutinizer05>
and rerun
<DocScrutinizer05>
the sudo ./VBoxLinuxAdditions.run
<DocScrutinizer05>
nope, no dice
<enyc>
hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm
<enyc>
ok dont panic
<enyc>
try with less frazzled brain another day ;p
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't panic
<enyc>
was worth a try.... i dont know exactly which linux configs can/can't do dynamic resizing properly etc etc
<enyc>
nevermind, probably better things to worry about at the moment =)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I will add a xrandr -s 1920x1080 somewhere to session start
<enyc>
yes thats not bad idea fdor you =)
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless somebody finds out about config files of this (light?)DM to tell it to start user session in a better resolution than it does
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I mean, even when slimDM is running in 1920x1080 it still starts user session xserver with parameter 800x600
<enyc>
hrrm
<enyc>
dont tire yourself out too long igf braintired
<DocScrutinizer05>
(works) means it starts a session for user >compile< with res:1920x1080, and conveniently autostarts KiCAD (and an xterm)
<jonsger1>
DocScrutinizer05: why do you use kicad in a vm?
<DocScrutinizer05>
several reasons: to have a way so everybody can use exactly same build. And also because building it native on my old Suse distro would be a nightmare without end
<DocScrutinizer05>
and since this is the reference for the project now, we're completely independent of any nasty subtle differences different builds on different systems with different release state of kicad could sneak in
<DocScrutinizer05>
everybody is free to use their own local genuine KiCAD version, as long as stuff behaves when 'imported' to the reference in VM
<jonsger1>
ah okay, I have for half an our tumbleweed, before I was on mint :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
any issues regarding display/rendering or behavior of KiCAD will get discussed vs the reference
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll do an even nuftier setup shortly, by adapting the Vagrantbox file so it automatically downloads the package.box on `vagrant up`