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<Oksana>
Any news lately? Besides PayPal-funds-unfrozen?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
Supporter
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<Lasx>
DocScrutinizer05, hey! I've pre-ordered the NeoN bare board around november-december.
<Lasx>
Back then you told me neo900 will be ready around March.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, that was the plan back then
<DocScrutinizer05>
well in early November it was
<Lasx>
So the release date has been moved?
<DocScrutinizer05>
to reach production readines around that time
<DocScrutinizer05>
obviously :-/ we suffer some delays from a cascade of effecr starting with PayPal and continuing with the Pyra delays introduced to Nikolaus
<Lasx>
What would be the most pessimistic release date estimate you can give me as of today?
<DocScrutinizer05>
so we need to reorganize the complete workflow and tools selection and task assignemnt
<DocScrutinizer05>
most pessimistic?
<Lasx>
Yeah.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, I don't dare to guess
<DocScrutinizer05>
honestly the project does and always did bear a risk that we can't finish it
<Lasx>
I won't hold you to it. I just need a date to lach un to.
<Lasx>
latch*
<DocScrutinizer05>
this risk is marginal, given we get enough time to overcome unforeseen obstacles
<DocScrutinizer05>
a less pessimistic estimation is: we want to finish the project this year
<DocScrutinizer05>
most optimistic guess is: Q3/2016
<Lasx>
So most pessimistic would be Q3/2017?
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's prolly fair to say, yes
<Lasx>
alright
<Lasx>
I just need to know if I should keep repairing my old phone or just buy a new phone in-between neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry I got no better 'news'
<Lasx>
Nah that's fine.
<Lasx>
You guys are undertaking quite a task.
<Lasx>
Something that's never been done before, actually.
<Lasx>
So good on you.
<Lasx>
Don't lose hope.
<Lasx>
Keep calm and carry on.
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed, never had thought I'd eventually face THAT daunting mountain of non-EE tasks
<Lasx>
Next time just accept bitcoins ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<Lasx>
I would have payed you guys in bitcoins if you offered that option.
<DocScrutinizer05>
on our todo list, dunno who said he wants to come up with a nice processor
<Lasx>
Oh don't worry about the processor, dude.
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<Lasx>
The type of people who would buy this phone are exactly the type of people who know their way around bitcoin.
<Lasx>
Come on.
<Lasx>
This is a no-brainer.
<DocScrutinizer05>
for people who know their way around bitcoins I bet it is. I honestly never before touched them
<DocScrutinizer05>
so much to learn that's not EE topics, so little time and poor little brain
<Lasx>
The days of difficult bitcoin conversion are long gone, mate.
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>Unfortunately LocalBitcoins is currently not available in your selected region<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
see what I mean?
<Lasx>
Don't worry about that.
<Lasx>
There are a ton of listings there of guys that accept payment providers like Yandex.Money or WebMoney
<DocScrutinizer05>
haha, you talk lightly
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you got an account worth a substantial amount of real money and you only can use it when you got for example an american bank account, then it starts getting a lot of hassle
<Lasx>
So the bitcoins first go to localbitcoins.com, then the vendor transfers the money to your bank account, then when the money arrives in your bank account you release the funds
<wpwrak>
oh, so this is not a payment processor but some sort of exchange, where people offer their service as payment processors ? hmm.
<Lasx>
I've used this website a million times it is by far the easiest, quickest and safest way to do this.
<wpwrak>
kinda like the amazon shops, where you order via amazon but the fulfillment is up to a 3rd party
<Lasx>
Yeah, kinda like that.
<Lasx>
If anything goes wrong at any stage localbitcoins.com will not release the funds until the dispute is resolved.
<wpwrak>
mmh. who picks the broker ? the sender or the recipient ?
<Lasx>
localbitcoins.com is the broker always
<Lasx>
so let's say you have 10 bitcoins
<Lasx>
you want to exchange into eur
<Lasx>
make an account on localbitcoins.com
<Lasx>
then deposit the bitcoins into your account (send it to an address that is generated for you)
<Lasx>
now your localbitcoins.com account has a balance of 10 bitcoins
<Lasx>
now you find someone who is willing to exchange your bitcoins for their euro
<Lasx>
you want someone with a high reputation and a large amount of succesful transactions
<Lasx>
input "10" in the BTC field and press "begin"
<Lasx>
and then that guy will ask for your IBAN or whatever
<Lasx>
meanwhile localbitcoins.com deducted the 10 BTC that were in your account and placed them into escrow
<Lasx>
so you give the guy your IBAN and he wires you the funds
<Lasx>
then when the funds arrive you confirm that on localbitcoins.com
<Lasx>
and then localbitcoins.com releases the funds from escrow and gives them to the vendor
<Lasx>
then you leave your review and that's the end of it
<Lasx>
oh, by the way, DocScrutinizer05, german supreme court or smth recently ruled that bitcoins are not taxable
<wpwrak>
phew. quite a manual-heavy process. perhaps okay for a dozen or so transactions, but if it gets more, you need someone to spend quite a bit of time on processing that
<Lasx>
Well, don't exchange bitcoins every time you get a buyer, lol
<wpwrak>
also, this process adds the complication of anticipating exchange rate risks
<Lasx>
nah, bitcoin is pretty stable nowadays.
<wpwrak>
you never know what tomorrow's news may be :) it's still a fairly tiny market, to easy to disturb
<DocScrutinizer05>
Lasx: that's a big problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
(not taxable)
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's why we need to convert BTC to EUR right away
<wpwrak>
(not exchange every time) accumulation is what almost killed us the last time (paypal) :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
afk again
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<Lasx>
DocScrutinizer05, when I say "not taxable" i mean that you don't have to pay taxes on it
<Lasx>
Oh, actually, hold on, I was wrong.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I "wasted" a huge amount of last 3 months to get taxes right. Believe me it's not as simple as "Only use BTC in Germany for all your business and you don't pay taxes". Odds rather are you do time in jail in the end
<Lasx>
"Germany has joined Sweden in the view that trading services should be subject to the same tax regulations as commodities like gold, therefore not exempt under Article 35 of the EU VAT directive."
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<DocScrutinizer05>
German taxation has accepted BTC as inner-company trading currency, when e.g. Siemens Augsburg sells goods to Siemens Nuernberg
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<DocScrutinizer05>
you still can't publish your balance in BTC
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you sell goods it's irrelevant which currency they get paid in, the question is what they are worth, in EUR (basically) - and of course where to you sell. VAT only applicable inner-EU
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<DocScrutinizer05>
generally for tax purposes you have to convert BTC to EUR (at least in your balance, virtually) on the most accurate exchange rate at that time, dealing separatly with any exchange rate wins/losses this might introduce
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's almost unfeasible unless you actually convert BTC to EUR the moment you receive any BTC
<DocScrutinizer05>
(at that time = time of transaction)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and you honestly got no idea how I hate do have to deal with all that stuff that's so totally non-EE
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<wpwrak>
i guess, if BTC are treated like other monies, you'd have to determine the "official" BTC exchange rate at the time of reception. but good luck with that ...
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<Lasx>
I guess the optimal thing to do if you guys wanted to accept bitcoin is to hire a guy who's experienced in bitcoin payment handling and have him take care of it.
<xman>
I would image there are providers in place to handle those real time services for a fee.
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