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<whitequark> rqou: how do I identify you at mtvre?
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<rqou> offtopic: anybody know what's going on with the spanish-speaking FPGA community that @ico_TC keeps RT'ing?
<rqou> e.g. who are they and why haven't i heard about them?
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<rqou> digshadow you never gave me the sticker :P
<digshadow> rqou: some people got stickers
<rqou> can you save me a "speaker" sticker?
<digshadow> rqou: there are plenty
<digshadow> btw I think that was the largest openfpga IRL mass I've seen so far
<rqou> there was supposed to be a Seattle-area meetup, but it hasn't happened
<rqou> poke poke azonenberg
<digshadow> rqou: azonenberg, awygle and ?
<rqou> lain
<digshadow> pssh there were 6 people there tonight
<rqou> also me+pointfree depending on scheduling
<digshadow> gotch
<digshadow> a
<digshadow> actually I count 7
<rqou> yeah, because by coincidence we managed to get a bunch of the non-US people this time
<digshadow> my statement still stands :)
<digshadow> whitequark: if you have the link to that writeup would be curious
<rqou> which one?
<sn00n> hi \o/
<digshadow> err 8! I'm not good at accounting
<digshadow> rqou: he mentioned he was playing with LUT oscillators I think it was. Although was unclear if it had been published at all
<rqou> oh that
<cr1901_modern> rqou: You mean OnCHIPUIS?
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<rqou> er, what?
<cr1901_modern> "anybody know what's going on with the spanish-speaking FPGA community that @ico_TC keeps RT'ing?"
<rqou> no, not that
<cr1901_modern> Oh I have no idea... icestudio is certainly familiar tho
<rqou> in other news, i _hate_ this robotics course i'm taking
<rqou> they do all sorts of crazy math that they don't explain how it possibly works
<rqou> and you can't google any of it because a small collection of "fancy schools" are the only people using this
<sn00n> rqou: like quaterniuns and lie groups?
<rqou> worse than that
<sn00n> quaternions
<rqou> that would be sane
<sn00n> ok, denavit hartenberg transformation matrices? %)
<rqou> they somehow define a 6x1 "vector" to represent se(3)
<rqou> which oeuf tried to explain to me as containing a vector and a "bivector" (which i don't know anything about)
<rqou> but anyways, they cram these into a 6x1 "vector"
<sn00n> ok, SE(3) is a lie group
<sn00n> btw
<rqou> and then define all sorts of manipulations on it using 6x6 matrices
<sn00n> and it makes sense if you want calculate "optimum" trajectories and stuff like that
<rqou> they also do weird things like expressing the rotation of a coordinate frame relative to itself somehow
<rqou> i still don't understand how this works
<rqou> oeuf told me it was evil and to ignore it :P
* cr1901_modern looks up a Lie group... I need to retry reading Dummit and Foote
<rqou> they also then overloaded a bunch of existing words to mean something completely different
<digshadow> cr1901_modern: I heard there is a spanish group using icestorm for teaching in school
<sn00n> but those 4x4 matrices you can represent SE(3) trafos with are very common ... 3D graphics ... homogenous coordinate trafos in general
<rqou> they're _not_ using 4x4 matrices
<cr1901_modern> digshadow: That's cool. I don't know anything about it
<rqou> that would also be sane
<sn00n> rqou: ok
<cr1901_modern> "trafos" is an interesting abbreviation for transform
<rqou> they're using 6x1 vectors to somehow represent elements of the Lie _algebra_
<rqou> not the group
<rqou> so yeah, all the operations are being done in the Lie _algebra_ but with a strange representation
<sn00n> ah ok, now i understand, they use the geometric algebra approach?
<sn00n> like the clifford algebra
<rqou> i don't know exactly what approach it is
<rqou> afaict it's the "UCB+Caltech" approach :P
<rqou> our canonical textbook is "A Mathematical Introduction to Robotic Manipulation" by Murray, Li, and Sastry
<sn00n> hm ok, but you need exterior products (2-vector) for 'smooth' trajectories, maybe that's y
<rqou> i also don't know most of this more-advanced math, and they use all sorts of bizarre shortcuts so that you don't really have to know it
<sn00n> for calculating fast action integrals i guess, but i dunno ^^'
<rqou> one example of how much i have no idea what is happening is that there is one homework question that i just couldn't solve
<rqou> and now that the solution has been posted, i _still_ can't solve it
<rqou> even given the solution
<sn00n> integrals as in sums of the volumes of the cell complex in actual numeric solutions i mean
<sn00n> yeah ok
<sn00n> it's like taking a course without the three basic courses before
<rqou> technically this course only requires linear algebra
<rqou> because they hid all of the more advanced math and replaced it all with bizarre matrices
<cr1901_modern> sn00n: I only learned about outer products in DSP. And only then b/c it was quicker than doing for loops in MATLAB lmao
<sn00n> yeah, they want to show off their math!
<rqou> but this means that i have no idea what's actually happening and when each matrix should be used
<sn00n> cr1901_modern: hrhr ^^
<cr1901_modern> (MATLAB hates for loops)
<rqou> oh yeah, we've got some outer products here too
<rqou> i have no idea why
<sn00n> "our math is superior to your math!"
<sn00n> "you math should go home, don't mess with our math!"
<sn00n> i never used a greenPAK
<sn00n> are they kinda FPAA?
<rqou> they're weird
<cr1901_modern> Kinda?
<rqou> they're a crossbar of LUTs
<sn00n> ah
<sn00n> but they don't have filters, right?
<rqou> they might?
<sn00n> yeah?
<cr1901_modern> I don't remember seeing filter IP
<rqou> they've got weird analog bits
<cr1901_modern> DAC/ADC, delay
<cr1901_modern> ring oscillator
<sn00n> oh
<cr1901_modern> shift reg
<sn00n> what happened to the other FPAA?
<sn00n> anadigm fpaa & so on?
<cr1901_modern> The DAC/ADC are slow... just fast enough for 44,100 Hz audio
<sn00n> noone needs them?
<cr1901_modern> Probably bought by The Semiconductor Company
<sn00n> anadigm fpaa only have BW < 2MHz or something
<sn00n> they had switched capacitor filters, right?
<cr1901_modern> " just fast enough for 44,100 Hz audio" times 2*
<cr1901_modern> I can't add
<rqou> oh yeah, more rants about my class
<rqou> i've also found office hours not particularly helpful because the intuition that I need and the intuition the TA uses are completely different
<sn00n> some state of the art configurable analog chips would be cool :>
<sn00n> ok, maybe not
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<pie__> stickers what stickers?
<pie__> :PP
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<pie_> do you guys know something nice for drafting digital logic (doesnt neeeeed to be super fancy i guess)
<pie_> i know everyone is all about varilog and languages and stuff but i just want to try dragging lines around and crap
<pie_> might be relaxing :P
<pie_> maybe :P
<qu1j0t3> fo'shiz
<pie_> related, apparently here is a fancyass thing noone has ever heard of https://www.gnu.org/software/electric/