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<traverseda>
So here's a question. It seems like the obvious next step is to allow apps running in containers to publish an API using capnproto. Any plans in that direction?
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<dwrensha>
traverseda: do you want that API to be available to other apps, or to the outside world?
<dwrensha>
for other apps, the pieces are mostly all in place for the Powerbox to allow that
<traverseda>
dwrensha, other apps. Cool
<dwrensha>
for the outside world, my understanding is that there is some work to do around defining a public transport for Cap'n Proto over the internet
<traverseda>
And when I say api, I do mean a bunch of capnproto RPC calls, not like a rest api
<dwrensha>
right
<traverseda>
Awesome
<traverseda>
As an aside, as an app developer there really doesn't seem like there's any way for me to make money of sandstorm. I imagine that you're not really cashflow positive yet, but have you guys given any thought to revenue sharing schemes?
<dwrensha>
yeah, we want to support in-app purchases
<dwrensha>
traverseda: are there any particular kinds of apps you'd be interesting in bringing to Sandstorm?
<traverseda>
dwrensha, the first is a simple comment system for statically generated sites. Similar to disqus or discourse. I imagine that once the API support is there someone else will take care of it pretty quickly though.
<traverseda>
The other is a simple hackernews/reddit clone, designed to represent a particular community, coupled with a feed reader optimized for dealing with feeds that have a score.
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<traverseda>
In regards to the Capnproto RPC calls, that's my imagining down the line, not an actual project that I think would be suited for the project as it is now.
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<digitalcircuit>
^ I had been wondering if someone's made a comment system that runs on Sandstorm for static sites. Supporting JavaScript-free browsers (via frames or such) like Discourse does would be a bonus.
<TimMc>
Any thoughts towards Sandstorm as a *desktop* platform for downloading and running apps in a more secure way?
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<jason_nstar[m]>
TimMc - I'm not sure what security benefit you're looking for. Perhaps sandboxing a local sandstorm server in a VM and then working with it through a browser?
<TimMc>
Well, I like the idea of app stores with sandboxing. Sandstorm brings that to servers, and mobile devices have it to some degree -- why not desktops?
<TimMc>
Basically, I like the idea of local apps (games, mail clients, etc.) that don't have full permissions.
<jason_nstar[m]>
games are particularly hard because the GPU is not easily isolated
<TimMc>
Hmm, yeah.
<jason_nstar[m]>
but you could install sandstorm in a vm on a desktop and then connect to it locally, and the apps running within sandstorm as well as the sandstorm service itself would be pretty well isolated. you'd mostly need to worry about browser exploits, but chrom(ium) is pretty well hardened
<TimMc>
I don't know what the URL (DNS, HTTPS?) situation would be like.
<jason_nstar[m]>
it all depends on what you're trying to do and what you're worried about.
<jason_nstar[m]>
have you looked at qubes os, by any chance?
<TimMc>
Not yet. Heard of it.
<TimMc>
I just like the idea of users being able to install desktop apps without worrying *too* much about malicious stuff, or more importantly poorly coded apps that have security issues as a result.
<TimMc>
I know that Sandstorm would mean only having local browser apps, but I feel like people are pretty used to that by now.
<jason_nstar[m]>
I suggest looking at the beginning of the developer guide, which shows you how to get sandstorm running locally and connect to it
<TimMc>
My long-term goal is to have people use apps that store the data locally as the store of record, but share the data out to any authorized parties. Imagine journaling/blogging software that puts encrypted copies up on a webdav server along with an index, and your friends' apps fetch it periodically for display and commenting.
<TimMc>
Having a local app-store would complement that.
<jason_nstar[m]>
yeah, that sounds pretty cool
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<TimMc>
Wouldn't work for every type of app, and there's a *lot* of complexity around backups, locking, etc... but I don't see any other way to get control of people's data back into their own hands.
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<jason_nstar[m]>
yes, I think it's difficult to execute without the application knowing a bit about the data its handling. maybe something git-based
<jason_nstar[m]>
a couple things that are somewhat related come to mind:
<TimMc>
Also Matrix, if I understood their long-term plans right.
<jason_nstar[m]>
ah, yes. I'm actually connecting to the irc channel through matrix / riot
<TimMc>
I can see. :-)
<TimMc>
How is it?
<jason_nstar[m]>
it seems to be ok from my end - hopefully I'm coming through well over IRC. I like it because it's simple for me to log back in on the web and catch up on irc channels. not hardcore enough to run weechat in screen / tmux
<TimMc>
I run screen on my raspberry pi. :-P
<jason_nstar[m]>
very cool
<TimMc>
It's nice, because the pi runs off a USB cord and I can put it on the same shelf as our home wireless router and just connect them with a short ethernet cable. Very low maintenance and footprint.
<TimMc>
The hardest part, honestly, was digging up a keyboard, mouse, and monitor for the initial install of Debian onto the thing. :-P
<TimMc>
Sandstor, on the other hand, I'm running on an old laptop my neighbors were going to throw out.
<jason_nstar[m]>
I'm running sandstorm on an intel nuc. it's great
<pdurbin>
TimMc: which IRC client are you running inside of screen? Pretty neat that it's running on a Raspberry Pi. :)
<TimMc>
pdurbin: irssi, of course. :-P
<pdurbin>
Heh, of course. The only reason I switched from irssi is that sometimes I type enough that it doesn't fit in a single line and I like how other clients let the input area grow bigger.
<TimMc>
This is an original pi B. I also use it as a place to pass notes between home and work (just cat > /dev/null in a screen window) and run pathod for testing HTTP clients.
<TimMc>
I haven't run into any perf issues, and the newer pis have markedly more CPU etc., so they're great little home servers.
<TimMc>
(Except I can't run Clojure on this thing, startup takes minutes.)
<TimMc>
pdurbin: I'll try out weechat some day.
<pdurbin>
Yeah, weechat is the one I use.
<pdurbin>
TimMc: are you aware of any apps written in Clojure that run on Sandstorm?
<TimMc>
Nope.
<pdurbin>
I recently started listening to https://defn.audio and it's a nice compliment to the Cognicast.
<TimMc>
For some reason I don't follow any Clojure podcasts, blogs, groups, etc. -- I only find out about news via #clojure on freenode.
<TimMc>
even though I use it at work
<TimMc>
dot audio, what a world
<pdurbin>
TimMc: heh. I know. What does the Clojure app at work do?
<TimMc>
Well, the main one is a video playback server (just the JSON metadata, not the bits). Thousands of requests per second, pretty fun. :-)
<TimMc>
There are a couple other services, but that's the one in active dev.
<pdurbin>
Cool. Sounds like Clojure has been a win.
<TimMc>
Yeah! Only complaint is lack of static analysis.
<TimMc>
I want to check out Typed Clojure and spec at some point, but I never seem to have the time.
<pdurbin>
Hmm. Does spec help at all?
<pdurbin>
Oh, you haven't checked it out yet. I've only heard about it.
<TimMc>
Well, not for static analysis, but runtime analysis in dev would take care of a lot of cases, and it looks like it would help with documentation for developers.
<TimMc>
A lot of times I find myself wondering "now, what does this return again? what keys does it have?" Static types usually help with that, but spec seems like it might as well.
<TimMc>
*runtime validation, I guess
<pdurbin>
Yeah, I think spec will help with wondering about the keys.
<TimMc>
I was not thrilled to hear that spec will not (out of the box) support saying "the map has these keys and no others"; that just opens the door for misspelling an optional key.
<TimMc>
Rich Hickey apparently explains why in some video, but I really don't like watching videos.