apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.1; 2.0.0-p451; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<fraterlaetus> irb'ing it now
<fraterlaetus> thanks in advance!
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<fraterlaetus> woot! that works'ish
<Gaddel> or Hash[array1.zip(array2)]
<Gaddel> which is the same thing
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<fraterlaetus> I had to use Hash[table[1].zip(rows)]
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<fraterlaetus> now to figure out how to iterate in ruby.
<Gaddel> you can just do .each
<fraterlaetus> (bash guy learning to speak ruby) = difficult.
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<Gaddel> {}.each { |key, value| .... }
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<fraterlaetus> table.each zips each row to an entire array.
<DreamingRainne> Where bash uses something like "for herp in derp; do ...; end", Ruby instead does "derp.each{ |herp| ... }"
<fraterlaetus> irb(main):006:0> table[1]
<fraterlaetus> => ["├─sda1", "8:1", "0", "243M", "0", "part", "/boot"]
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<fraterlaetus> so Hash[rows.zip(table[1])] produces exactly what I want
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<fraterlaetus> Hash[rows.zip(table.each)] zips each collumn header to an entire array of values
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<fraterlaetus> ie: "NAME"=>["sda", "8:0", "0", "8G", "0", "disk"],
<fraterlaetus> instead of {"NAME"=>"├─sda1", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:1", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"243M", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"part", "MOUNTPOINT"=>"/boot"}
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<shevy> fraterlaetus in general ruby uses #each, like for an array, or #each_pair for a hash
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<shevy> fraterlaetus so the first thing to do is always - identify what you have here
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<shevy> .zip zips up two arrays
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<shevy> ['a','b','c'].zip(['d','e','f']) # => [["a", "d"], ["b", "e"], ["c", "f"]]
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<lethjakman> is there a way to modify the current variable inside of a select { } ?
<shevy> and Hash to convert it into a hash again
<shevy> Hash[* [["a", "d"], ["b", "e"], ["c", "f"], ['g','h']] ] # => {["a", "d"]=>["b", "e"], ["c", "f"]=>["g", "h"]}
<shevy> eww
<shevy> that went badly :P
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<shevy> lethjakman what is the current variable?
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<lethjakman> shevy: [1..100].select{ |i| i.even }
<lethjakman> the i right there
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<RubyPanther> lethjakman: normally you would do 2 steps reject and replace.
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<DreamingRainne> maybe map{|i| i.even? ? value_if_even : value_if_odd }
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<benzrf> replace?
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<DreamingRainne> Well, you'd need two blocks for that: one for the condition, one for the value to replace it with.
<benzrf> >> [1, 2, 3].replace
<eval-in> benzrf => wrong number of arguments (0 for 1) (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/114949)
<benzrf> >> [1, 2, 3].replace 2
<eval-in> benzrf => no implicit conversion of Fixnum into Array (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/114950)
<benzrf> o-o
<benzrf> >> [1, 2, 3].replace [4, "foo"]
<benzrf> i am confuse
<DreamingRainne> So just do map!{|i| condition ? newvalue : i} or each_with_index{|value,i| array[i] = newvalue if condition} or something.
<DreamingRainne> "replace" overwrites the contents of the array with the other array. Think Agent Smith in the Matrix sequels. It empties out the original array and rebuilds it in the other one's image.
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<DreamingRainne> It modifies the original array directly, which is what makes it different than simply assigning.
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<cat_pants> Hi folks, I have a (hopefully) easy one. I'm trying to run this rake task: http://www.satisnet.co.uk/blog/puppet-dashboard-keeping-it-tidy/ but unsure what user I should run it as. My guesses are either 1. puppet 2. root. Thanks!
<centrx> cat_pants, Best practices for security are don't run as root unless absolutely necessary.
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<cat_pants> Should I try running as the "puppet" user?
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<RubyPanther> cat_pants: if that is the user that is running the rails part
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<pontiki> aaaahh, actually, you should be running it as whatever user is running that application on your server
<pontiki> might be puppet, might not
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<cat_pants> Ok. From the output of ps, it looks like 10 ruby processes are running as the "puppet-dashboard" user, while one ruby process is running as root
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<cat_pants> nm, the one instance of ruby running as root is the puppet agent
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<cat_pants> Thanks folks!
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<fraterlaetus> thanks people!
* fraterlaetus waves
<benzrf> does anybody know of something like drb or dcell that's safe to expose to the general public
<benzrf> ;-;
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<bnagy> there's never going to be anything
<benzrf> ;-;
<Oog> when i trap QUIT in a forked process how do i gracefully tell the process to exit?
<bnagy> just make a strict API and a dcelly backend
<benzrf> ?
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<bnagy> like have a safeJSON api or something
<bnagy> at the untrusted end
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<bnagy> also as an aside dcell and drb are polar opposite distributed programming approaches
<bnagy> Oog: does exit not work?
<Oog> bnagy: i didnt try it - exit said exit script so i thought it would maybe also close the parent process?
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<bnagy> should just exit the running process
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<bnagy> but hey if not Process.exit I think
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<DreamingRainne> Once forked, they're separate processes. You'd have to communicate with the other one somehow in order to tell it to close.
<bnagy> yeah I guess by sending a sigquit
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<bnagy> Oog: fwiw I think signal-based IPC is kind of inelegant for ruby
<Oog> its for heroku i have to deal with it i think
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<Oog> when it restarts dynos it sends sigterm
<bnagy> fair enough
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<walter> exit
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<tangyumeng> hello
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<Oog> how exactly does a signal trap work like if my process is in the middle of something
<Oog> and a signal trap happens
<Oog> what thread is that trap executing on?
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<Waheedi> anyone have done delayed_job
<Waheedi> :)
<Waheedi> my question
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<Waheedi> i want to create e record in delayed job table
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<Waheedi> nvm
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<bnagy> Oog: afair it's kind of ugly
<Oog> it sort of seems to happen like in the current thread...?
<bnagy> I _think_ it's in whatever thread you defined the trap, but I'm not sure
<bnagy> but remember that in MRI only one ruby thread is ever actually running
<bnagy> hence it being ugly :/
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<bnagy> so if you have ruby threads that need to clean up before main thread exit ( like if they're using DBs or whatever ) then you need to make sure they do that before your trap handler exits
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<Oog> what is the trap handler raises an excpetion?
<Oog> can't it be caught?
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<bnagy> by what?
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<bnagy> it would be the same as raising a toplevel exceptiion in the main thread afaik
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<bnagy> I mean you can handle exceptions inside your trap handling block
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<Oog> i run that, send TERM, EXEXEEXEXEEEEEXXEEXEXXE gets printed and it seems to exit gracefully
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<bnagy> Oog: yeah - same as raising a toplevel exception in your main thread :)
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<Oog> ah
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<droptone> Question: I am working with an API, and I use the API to retrieve individual contacts based on ID. When using it with an individual contact, it works perfectly. It stores the contact in an array.
<droptone> I'm doing this with rails 3.2.x, Ruby 2.0.0. Anyway, so, I call the API, and it returns @contact. I can refernce @contact['FirstName'], @contact['LastName'], and @contact['Email'].
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<droptone> I've created a loop and I want to iterate through contact IDs 0 through 99 and store all contacts in an array.
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<droptone> What would the syntax be for storing the individual contacts in @allcontacts? So say, @allcontacts[0]['FirstName'] would get @contact['FirstName'], etc.
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<droptone> And is that the best way to do this?
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<bnagy> don't use an ivar
<bnagy> contacts = (0..99).map {|i| get_contact i}
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<master_bait> (master_bait) Can you connect a raspberry pi to a computer via usb and use the monitor as a display whilst running Windows?
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<gr33n7007h> yeah that'll work, not
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<master_bait> Is there a way to emulate the screen of the raspberry pi?
<gr33n7007h> hey bnagy, bluetoot sockets are not implemented in ruby!
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<gr33n7007h> *bluetooth
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<gr33n7007h> you lied to me
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<Oog> how do i "raise" a term
<Oog> like pass it on to the nex handler?
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, you there
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<master_bait> Can someone please help me with raspberry pi?
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<gr33n7007h> master_bait, pull bk and forth i think
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<master_bait> !ops gr33n7007h
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<bnagy> gr33n7007h: whatever
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<bnagy> I'm sure you're right. Python can make socket syscalls that Ruby can't make
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<bnagy> Oog: just raise in a rescue section
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<Oog> im in a framework that calls my function
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<Oog> the framework has already trapped TERM
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<Oog> in my function i trap it
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<Oog> it seems my trap is the only one called
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<Oog> how can i cal the "parent" of sorts
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<bnagy> uh.. what do you think the parent should be?
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<bnagy> like I said, I think in your trap you're probably running more or less naked in the main thread
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<bnagy> but if your framework has wrapped you somehow then if you raise it should go to that
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, wasn't having a go, just saying :)
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<Oog> how do i raise TERM
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<bnagy> gr33n7007h: I'm just saying that you apparently misunderstood, then, and still now
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<bnagy> if the OS provides a socket device for whatever then ruby can open it
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, i didn't misunderstand anyting, end of
<bnagy> Oog: that's not an exception
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<bnagy> gr33n7007h: then explain how I 'lied to you'
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<bnagy> and, incidentally, how calling someone a liar is 'not having a go'
<bnagy> but that's not really a concern
<master_bait> If you lie you deserve to have your balls cut off
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, there is no iota of bluetooth sockets in ruby find the magic number and all that?
<bnagy> Oog: there's probably a wrapper for sending signals somewhere.. but if you resend a term to yourself you'll just end up back in your same handler
<gr33n7007h> if it's not there you can't find it
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<bnagy> gr33n7007h: socket constants are just ints. You use the right constant in the syscall ( a syscall is an OS thing not a Ruby thing ) you get the corresponding type of socket
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<bnagy> so, as I keep saying, if the OS supports it, ruby does
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, for f*** sake bnagy wise up man, you cannnnotttt create raw bluetoth sockets
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<bnagy> but you can in python?
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, if so how?
<bnagy> you're the one who said you could
<gr33n7007h> in python yeah
<bnagy> last time we had this conversation
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<bnagy> well if you can do it in python you can do it in ruby
<bnagy> sockets are sockets
<gr33n7007h> how?
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, if your so sure how?
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<bnagy> make the same syscall with the same args
<gr33n7007h> you tell me how i'll platt saw dust if you come up with the answer
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<gr33n7007h> its not in the source code its not there
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<bnagy> it doesn't need to be
<RubyPanther> Kernel.syscall
<RubyPanther> but see also: rubytooth
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<bnagy> I think you just need to understand what sockets and syscalls are a bit better
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<bnagy> sadly I don't have easy access to an OS that provides a socket api, OSX doesn't
<gr33n7007h> im on about raw bluetooth sockets
<bnagy> (for bt)
<RubyPanther> Ruby;s Socket is a thin wrapper around the C stdlib
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<gr33n7007h> like in pyton
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<gr33n7007h> whats with this h
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<bnagy> see if you keep typey typey without ever thinky thinky you're never going to understand
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<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: your letter ates you
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, bnagy point me in the right direction then?
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<RubyPanther> I just ordered a bluetooth ODBII adapter for my car, I'll test Ruby's bt support myself next week
<bnagy> sure. Find the socket constants python is using for the open. Use those.
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: Just use the rubytooth lib
<bnagy> you could strace a POC python script maybe, if they're non-googleable
<bnagy> or ^^ that
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, THIS IS THE THING IT'S 3, 31 BUT IT'S NOT IMPLEMENTED IN RUBY
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<bnagy> what needs to be 'implemented' ? Ruby will pass whatever args you give it to the syscall
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, show me then?
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<bnagy> also, shouting has no positive effect on rectitude
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, my bad
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<gr33n7007h> how can i create a rfcomm connection to bluetooth from ruby
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<gr33n7007h> i just can't be done
<gr33n7007h> using sockets
<bnagy> I mean.. fd = rsock_socket(d, t, NUM2INT(protocol)); looks to me like it's a straight passthrough but hey lemme look at the rest of the C
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, it won't work, if you can get a raw socket to bluetooth i'll pull a mooney in front of nasa
<zorak_> in ruby, i have this string a = "0123456789"
<gr33n7007h> i,ve tried tried tried and tried
<zorak_> and using a[] i wat 987 of resault
<zorak_> a[0] == 0 and then
<zorak_> a[-1] == 9
<gr33n7007h> zorak_, a[-3..-1]
<gr33n7007h> zorak_, a[-3..-1].reverse
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<gr33n7007h> or something like that i can't think
<zorak_> cool, i was trying but cant with [-1..-3]
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<RubyPanther> on my system I have #define AF_BLUETOOTH 31
<zorak_> there are something i can read about this subject?
<zorak_> i find it very hard to understand
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<RubyPanther> and Socket::SOCK_RAW will get permission denied for regular user
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<bnagy> RubyPanther: you have a linux that has one of these bt sockets?
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<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, How would i connect to a phones bluetooth with mac address and port number?
<bnagy> I'm trawling the src and I can't see any validation that would deny 'unknown' family or domain constants
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<droptone> bragy: that doesn't appear to be working
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<RubyPanther> $ sudo /home/paris/.rbenv/versions/2.1.0/bin/ruby -rsocket -e 'puts Socket.new(31,3)'
<RubyPanther> #<Socket:0x007f69d0c99b68>
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<RubyPanther> bnagy: yeah that is linux
<droptone> when I do what you suggested, it's just writing the individual index numbers to @allcontacts
<RubyPanther> 31 is from /usr/src/kernels/3.4.9-1.fc16.x86_64/include/net/bluetooth/bluetooth.h #define AF_BLUETOOTH 31
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<bnagy> RubyPanther: right.. so it works
<RubyPanther> note that as a regular user I get Operation not permitted - socket(2) (Errno::EPERM)
<bnagy> well you would, I guess
<RubyPanther> which is the C lib not Ruby
<Waheedi> btw sometimes there are things that you can't even find their questions!
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, but how to connect o the phone with bt addr and port n#?
<bnagy> being able to send arbitrary BT as a user would be.. bad :)
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: With a few months of engineering, or using a lib like rubytooth
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<Subsentient> How, how, HOW do I disable assembler during compile?
<Subsentient> ALL assembler?
<Subsentient> ALL of it?
<Waheedi> lol
<bnagy> Subsentient: uh.. wat?
<Waheedi> assembler down
<RubyPanther> Subsentient: normally you disassemble after you assemble, not during
<bnagy> droptone: show code. I think you're probably still messed up by using @vars
<gr33n7007h> See, in python socket.connect(('00:11:22:23:44:44', 5)) simple how in ruby?
<Subsentient> bnagy: I am building for an i586 target, and ruby is including the i686 instruction CMOV in the produced libraries.
<Subsentient> My compiler is pure i586
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<Subsentient> even with -march=i686, it will NOT produce CMOV. This must be assembler.
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<bnagy> ruby has no compiler of its own
<Subsentient> bnagy: gcc is a C compiler.
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, there's all the const ints create raw socket but how to connect?
<bnagy> it's vaguely possible that some of the .c uses inline asm though?
<bnagy> Subsentient: you could try to grep for it?
<Subsentient> You people don't know much about the lower level do you?
<Subsentient> bnagy: I did.
<Subsentient> It must be SSE instructions in there somehow
<gr33n7007h> I don't think it can be done
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<bnagy> Subsentient: ok, well I guess you caught me on a day where I am sick of people turning up and being insulting
<bnagy> yes, I know nothing about the lower level
<Subsentient> bnagy: Sorry, not trying to be insulting :^(
<Subsentient> I'm just... irritated.
<bnagy> and I LOVE being called 'you people' it's my favourite
<Subsentient> I am behind schedule and I am very angry about this assembler business, I don't mean to be rude or condescending. I'm trying not to take out the frustration on anyone.
<bnagy> your words of wisdom about GCC being a C compiler have enlightened me. I must meditate on this.
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, Socket.new(31,3) creates the socket, now the ultimate goal is how to connect?
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<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: #connect
<gr33n7007h> Subsentient, he's probably pist with me
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<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, example?
<gr33n7007h> tcp udp unix easy how bluetooth?
<Subsentient> Well, I think I fixed it by mutilating the configure script
<RubyPanther> Subsentient: Don't use i586 target, use 386 or 486 if you can't support 686
<Subsentient> RubyPanther: Not everything will build at all for those targes
<Subsentient> So I am forced for i586
<Subsentient> Trust me
<RubyPanther> No, everything with 586 should support 386
<Subsentient> even glibc considers them a secondary target nowadays
<RubyPanther> Subsentient: what is the exact CPU you're using that is 586 that can't do 486
<gr33n7007h> If someone can give me a definite answer i promise to eat all my veggies :)
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<Subsentient> RubyPanther: No, the chips can do it, but see, in C, sometimes people do optimizing stuff like inline assembler, and i486 is even harder to maintain for that than i586
<bnagy> I'd be pretty surprised if they're doing that in core
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<bnagy> but certainly not saying it's not possible
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<RubyPanther> Like I used to have a cyrix that was a 586, but I had to compile everything as 386/486 because 586
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, bnagy 1 sec let me try
<Subsentient> bnagy: I found the issue
<RubyPanther> everything other than 586 is backwards compatible, but 586 is a failed alternate to 686 and you shouldn't be building for it unless you have a specific CPU that you're sure is correct for it
<RubyPanther> Subsentient: in your case you don't even know what CPU you have
<Subsentient> Ruby does NOT allow you to disable SSE with a switch, so I had to trick the configure script into thinking I cannot support SSE
<gr33n7007h> do i have to be root?
<Subsentient> RubyPanther: I have all sorts, old and new, so I want something universal.
* centrx used to use Mandrake Linux, optimized for the 586
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: to use Socket::SOCK_RAW yes
<bnagy> Subsentient: which .c files use inline SSE? In math.c or something?
<Subsentient> bnagy: Probably, not sure which.
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, 1 sec if tis works
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<RubyPanther> He doesn't eve nkn ow what CPU he has, how is he going to find which C source he claims he read?
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<gr33n7007h> SocketError: getaddrinfo: Name or service not known
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<gr33n7007h> oh ffs this is pissing me right off
<gr33n7007h> math.c ?
<bnagy> gr33n7007h: you'll probably just have to manually pack your sockaddrinfo
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, i just did
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<bnagy> which doesn't look hard if that's the python line ( macaddr, some int )
<bnagy> why would you be using getaddrinfo?
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<gr33n7007h> you tell me?
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<bnagy> a sockaddrinfo is just a binary blob that makes sense ( hopefully ) to whichever socket
<bnagy> so by 'manually pack' I mean.. that. Manually pack it into a string with Array#pack or whatever
<bnagy> then connect
<bnagy> srsly though, you should read up on C sockets
<bnagy> that's going to make a lot of stuff a great deal clearer
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, If it is possible to do, why not show me an example?
<bnagy> because I don't have an OS that provides a socket api for BT devices
<bnagy> OSX uses its own thing
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<bnagy> and, partially, because I would rather play computer games than prove I know what I'm talking about
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, can you type the ruby code?
<bnagy> I don't know what to type, because I don't know what a BT sockaddrinfo looks like
<bnagy> and finding out would involve 2 minutes of google and reading a header file
<bnagy> which is more effort than I'm prepared to invest
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<gr33n7007h> I've come to the conclusion it can only be done over emulated serial port ?
<bnagy> but a protip you may consider for the future is that if you want people to do your work for you, maybe try being a bit less bratty
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<bnagy> srsly - just straightline port the python
<bnagy> this looks like trivial raw socket data munging
<centrx> Can someone recommend something better than using: if defined?(ActiveRecord::Base) for my non-Rails (but will use Rails if available) library?
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<gr33n7007h> trivial, i wish you'd give over
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<bnagy> gr33n7007h: trivial just means simple, it doesn't mean zero effort
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, did i say that
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<bnagy> nope, I'm just saying I'm not going to do it for you
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<gr33n7007h> btproto_rfcomm = 3 af_bluetooth = 31 right?
<bnagy> gr33n7007h: you're past that
<bnagy> next step is packing the sockaddrinfo
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, how god dammit
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<bnagy> with Array#pack
<bnagy> you just need to find out how it's represented in the bt header
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<gr33n7007h> ['F0:1C:13:E4:7F:96'].pack(......now what?
<bnagy> don't you need some channel number as well or something?
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<gr33n7007h> or i'm just frustrated ot taking it out on you
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<bnagy> and,just guessing, the macaddr is probably raw
<gr33n7007h> port is 6
<bnagy> "\xf0\x1c...
<bnagy> but hey, I don't know for sure cause I haven't read the headers! Or read the python. Or done any research.
<gr33n7007h> ['F0:1C:13:E4:7F:96', 6].pack(something like that
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<bnagy> if it were a closed source proto I would try something like '\xf0\x1c\x13[etc]\x00\x06'
<bnagy> but I don't know how many channels BT supports
<gr33n7007h> 31 chans
<bnagy> oh then it will just be a byte
<bnagy> so no \x00
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, thats null
<bnagy> but I maybe the chan is before the macaddr
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<AndroUser2> Ruby is completely inferior to python
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, i totally give the f*** in
<naimrajib> :)
<bnagy> gr33n7007h: ok.
<bnagy> this is why quitters make crap hackers :)
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, you why cos it can't happen
<bnagy> you already got the socket. It can clearly be done. You're just lazy.
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<gr33n7007h> bnagy, you know it can't be done
<bnagy> anyway, hacking / reverse engineering / pretty much all original research is like this All The Time
<bnagy> hundreds of hours of rage followed by success
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, I like the way you think, but loses are loses
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<bnagy> so my general advice is either suck it up and stop being a princess or find a different project
<gr33n7007h> so i'm right then?
* gr33n7007h says bnagy loses
<bnagy> you called me a liar for saying 'you just open the socket'.. then it was demonstrated that that's exactly what you do
<bnagy> now I am saying you need to craft a correct sockaddr into a string and call connect
<RubyPanther> __u8 b[6]; # is a packed btaddr
<bnagy> RubyPanther: that looks like just that macaddr raw. There's no channel? Or was that in the open?
<droptone> bnagy: here's the code in question: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4df6e881265288b03510
<droptone> since you asked
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<droptone> that "pp @iscontact" statement is just for testing
<bnagy> droptone: ok there's a bunch that looks weird
<bnagy> @isid should probably just be the i from the block
<droptone> normally @iscontact returns an array that can be referenced by @iscontact['FirstName'], etc
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<bnagy> @iscontact is just a variable, it doesn't 'return' anything
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<droptone> ok, wrong terminology, I meant to say, the server call returns an array
<droptone> that is @iscontact
<bnagy> uh does it return it or fill it in?
<droptone> which has the elements 'FirstName', 'LastName', and 'Email'
<droptone> fills it in, lol
<droptone> whatever, it comes from the server
<droptone> and goes into the array
<bnagy> ahh it returns it based on the params you ask for?
<droptone> the API call requires an array, which is the @iscontact variable
<gr33n7007h> how to pack mac address and port please
<bnagy> try like @isserver.call("ContactService.load", current_user.profile.apiis, i, @iscontact)
<droptone> wait, I fucked that up a bit
<droptone> hang on
<droptone> yes
<bnagy> and don't bother incrementing @isid ( or using it at all )
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<bnagy> so don't assign that call to anything - that will be the return value of the block anyway
<bahar> anyone know of an example ruby web app using sinatra that i can read and follow along with. sort of like those exercises at jumpstartlabs ?
<RubyPanther> bnagy: I can't tell from bluetooth.h
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<RubyPanther> but the address itself can be created like >> 'F0:1C:13:E4:7F:96'.split(':').map{|s|Integer('0x%s'%s)}.pack('C6')
<bnagy> bahar: the sinatra docs are awesome AFAIR?
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, is it possible or what?
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<RubyPanther> >> 'F0:1C:13:E4:7F:96'.split(':').map{|s|Integer('0x%s'%s)}.pack('C6')
<eval-in> RubyPanther => "\xF0\x1C\x13\xE4\x7F\x96" (https://eval.in/115015)
<droptone> bnagy: here's updated code:
<droptone> that's more accurate
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<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, what about port number
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<bahar> bnagy: looking for an exercise that walks me through building something
<gr33n7007h> nm
<gr33n7007h> i see
<droptone> well, minus the type in 'LastName', but that doesn't change anything
<bahar> did a couple on jumpstartlabs, they were awesome, learned a lot
<bnagy> droptone: nah, you're still using @isid and you're still assigning the api call
<droptone> I'm using @isid because that's a counter variable, you're saying that's the same as using i?
<bnagy> droptone: the body of the map should be just one line, apart from the rescue stuff
<droptone> so what should the one line look like?
<bnagy> yes the 'counter' comes from the (0..99) - it will be i in the block
<bnagy> droptone: what I said ^^ I think
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<droptone> what did you say?
<bnagy> 12:15 < bnagy> try like @isserver.call("ContactService.load", current_user.profile.apiis, i, @iscontact)
<droptone> ahh
<droptone> trying that now, thank you
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, bnagy is this what i should be using Socket.pack_sockaddr_in
<droptone> we realize that where you put the "i" in that API call is supposed to just be an integer represting the ID of the contact
<bnagy> gr33n7007h: no, because that's for AF_INET
<droptone> and that still makes sense?
<bnagy> droptone: i comes from the block var - you're the one that called it i :)
<droptone> no, that was the code you gave me
<droptone> for the map call
<droptone> but that's fine
<bnagy> yes because I looked at your gist
<droptone> lol
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, so i'm in a sticky predicament
<droptone> I never used I, I used isid
<droptone> anyway
<gr33n7007h> please help me
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<bnagy> droptone: @iscontactsall = (0..99).map { |i| <-- your code
<droptone> lol, no, that was code from elsewhere
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<droptone> pretty sure from you
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<droptone> regardless
<bnagy> today is honestly making me stabby
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: use a gem. use a gem. use a gem. Also, I already wrote the address packing code for you
<droptone> 21:46 < bnagy> don't use an ivar
<droptone> 21:47 < bnagy> contacts = (0..99).map {|i| get_contact i}
<centrx> >> ->(stab) { stab.stab }
<eval-in> centrx => #<Proc:0x4117e47c@/tmp/execpad-9df73bfaf429/source-9df73bfaf429:2 (lambda)> (https://eval.in/115016)
<droptone> it's all good
<droptone> doesn't matter
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, much appreciated but what should i use to connect?
<bnagy> droptone: right! and it turns out the get_contact api looks like @isserver.call blah
<bnagy> anyway, try it. Might work.
<RubyPanther> >> (stabby = ->(who,times=1){"%s got stabbed with a lambda! " % (times > 1 ? stabby[who,times-1]+who : who)})["bnagy",3]
<eval-in> RubyPanther => "bnagy got stabbed with a lambda! bnagy got stabbed with a lambda! bnagy got stabbed with a lambda! " (https://eval.in/115018)
<bnagy> contacts = (0..99).map {|i| @isserver.call("ContactService.load", current_user.profile.apiis, i, @iscontact)}
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: a gem!
<bnagy> or whatever var you want to assign it to
<droptone> bnagy
<droptone> that fuckin works
<droptone> you god damn sexy motherfucker
<droptone> I don't understand it whatsoever but god bless you
<bnagy> everyone always seems so surprised
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, it has to sockets
<RubyPanther> black magic <3 <3 <3
<droptone> well because I've got individual contact retrieval via API working fine and the syntax is nothing like that
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<droptone> but god bless you you genius
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<AndroUser2> Why use ruby when it's inferior to python in every conceivable way
<bnagy> well I'd prefer something more ecumenical but I'll take it
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: I'm sure the gems all use sockets
<gr33n7007h> AndroUser2, I'm starting to believe that
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, they all use serialport
<AndroUser2> It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of fact. Just like the world revolves around the sun
<RubyPanther> AndroUser2: Your logic fails you. Take any way that you think is inferior. Now, assume you have different preferences. Ahhhh, now you can conceive of it being superior.
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<AndroUser2> Python is light years faster and it has more support
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<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: does this look like a serial port to you? https://github.com/brandonprry/rubytooth/blob/master/bluetooth_linux/bluetooth_linux.c
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, 1 sec let me check
<AndroUser2> Ruby is super slow. I don't get the point of this language
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<RubyPanther> Anyways, if a serial port is too high level, why use a high level scripting language? Even if your app is in Ruby, maybe just whip out that part as a C extension
<AndroUser2> Now I'm starting to see the correlation with ruby and the idiocy of the Japanese people. They're morons
<RubyPanther> AndroUser2: Ruby is neither fast, nor slow. CPUs are fast or slow. Algorithms are fast or slow. Programmers are fast or slow.
<bnagy> :(
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<RubyPanther> Any ops? We've got a racist problem
<AndroUser2> The power plant leak should come to no surprise because the idiots had what was coming to them
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<bnagy> racist trolls are way less amusing than language trolls
<AndroUser2> Ruby processes code much slower than python
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<gr33n7007h> AndroUser2, how much slower
<AndroUser2> Its like as if it's been written by incompetent morons who don't know a fucking thing about assembly
<AndroUser2> Like 10 times slower he33n7007h
<RubyPanther> Yeah, that's why mRuby has RiteVM, because Matz doesn't understand ASM. herp-a-derp
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<AndroUser2> Matz is a moron who can barely speak English. He needs to learn proper American to make his language be worth a damn
<bnagy> AndroUser2: so.. do you troll in like groups? Sorta clustered around one screen?
<gr33n7007h> AndroUser2, why so against ruby and the japanese people?
<bnagy> or do you just paste the logs into your troll channels so you can laugh?
<bnagy> I'm genuinely curious
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<bnagy> I mean it can't be rewarding to do as a solo exercise, the whole point is showing off
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<AndroUser2> Gr33n7007h the stupid sap japs have ruined the world's oceans due to their frank stupidity
<gr33n7007h> AndroUser2, well that put me in my place :/
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<bnagy> as opposed to the Americans who detonated dozens of atomic bombs in the pacific on purpose?
<bnagy> happily, it's big.
<AndroUser2> Precisely
<AndroUser2> We needed to nuke Japan to create peace
<agent_white> Whoa some deeps going on in this thread.
<RubyPanther> agent_white: I'm trying to get help in #freenode but no luck yet
<bnagy> oh nonono, the Castle Bravo tests were orders of magnitude bigger than japan
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<bnagy> actually I think it was the second biggest H-bomb ever
<agent_white> RubyPanther: I would help but I'm watching the new Karate Kid.
<RubyPanther> if Mr. Miyagi was here, he would know what to doi
<bnagy> 60 years and uh.. 6 days ago today
<bnagy> merrica
<gr33n7007h> if you see matz tell him i need to speak to him about bluetooth and pack
<RubyPanther> gr33n7007h: I already wrote the pack for you
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<bnagy> RubyPanther: NOO NEWB YOU NEED TO APPEND A ONE BYTE CHANNEL ARG ITS JUST NOT POSSIBLE OMG
<gr33n7007h> RubyPanther, but it needs to be packed with the port number doesn't it?
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<RubyPanther> bnagy: the channnel is not part of the address, I'm looking at the .h
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* bnagy & RubyPanther, side by side. Truly the enemy of mine enemy...
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<centrx> What a happy family
<agent_white> RubyPanther: In this one it's Jackie Chan. I think it's Mr.Miagi's son... so I guess it _is_ Mr.Miagi.
<bnagy> gr33n7007h: have you considered looking at the source for the python connect ?
<bnagy> Jackie Chan is amazing.
<bnagy> I saw some interview he did for Korean TV. He was in a sauna with a couple of korean celeb chefs / comedians
<bnagy> for like... 2 hours
<bnagy> then he made noodles
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, I don't even know anymore :
<RubyPanther> The channel is part of the btrfcoff info, not part of the address
<bnagy> oh.. then it should be just connect( packedmacaddr )
<bnagy> then it's just a matter of working out the raw packet proto
<bnagy> can't WAIT to see the meltdown at that point
<agent_white> bnagy: Nonono that's Shangai Noon.
<agent_white> ^ Is how I drink whiskey.
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<bnagy> agent_white: uh.. no this was absolutely a show on KTV
<bnagy> like 2 weeks ago
<gr33n7007h> Any one got matsimoto number?
<clone2> chinese zodia
<clone2> zodiac
<gr33n7007h> That guy is a genius of computer sciences
<RubyPanther> loc_addr.rc_channel = (uint8_t) FIX2UINT(port);
<gr33n7007h> maybe he will say look gr33n7007h heres how it's done
<AndroUser2> Japs are total saps
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<gr33n7007h> AndroUser2, go and suck your dummy
<AndroUser2> If you don't hate Japs you're a moron
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<gr33n7007h> your the fucking moron you twat
<bnagy> well that's clearly a false dichotomy
<centrx> Maybe you're both morons
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<gr33n7007h> i hate racism
<bnagy> and the Dutch
<gr33n7007h> no i like python :)
<agent_white> I hate evil karate kids
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<clone2> AndroUser2 mother is japanese
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<bnagy> agent_white: wow, racist
<AndroUser2> A long time ago, a beautiful Chinese princess was caught cheating on her husband. She was banished from China and sent away to the nearest island. A big ugly gorilla raped the princess on the island and she gave birth to the first Japanese people.
<bnagy> agent_white: Jaden Smith isn't even all that dark
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<clone2> that was AndroUser2 father
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<agent_white> bnagy: But he's from detroit?
<gr33n7007h> like a powder keg, ready to go off
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<gr33n7007h> how the f*** you haven't been kicked/banned out kali-linux
<bnagy> agent_white: now you hatin on Detroit as well, like they all evil?
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<agent_white> bnagy: ey man, I ain't sayin it doo tha 313 speaks fo itself.
<AndroUser2> What i said about Kali Linux and its shitty lazy devs is the truth
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<agent_white> bnagy: This movie is wierd though. the OG karate kid was like ~16-18 years old. This is like 12 year olds whompin on each other.
<bnagy> I don't think he was supposed to be anything like 18
<bnagy> wasn't he still in high school by KKIII ?
<RubyPanther> yeah maybe 14-16
<agent_white> Oh really? I thought in the first one he got that car from Miagi?
<AndroUser2> Who cares it's irrelevant to ruby and your pathetic life
<bnagy> hm.. good point
<agent_white> AndroUser2: But watching this movie is inspahrin. Like watching Hackers makes me want to open up Wireshark.
<AndroUser2> #defocus is for that
<bnagy> so 16 to drive in the US?
<clone2> chinese zodiac
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<agent_white> bnagy: Yessir.
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<RubyPanther> do we know he had a license?
<AndroUser2> This channel is for bashing Japs for being Japs
<bnagy> ha, the more hacking movies I see the more Hackers is among the more accurate
<bnagy> which is kind of insane :<
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<AndroUser2> The most accurate hacking movie is the Dragon tattoo from sweden
<clone2> sword fish
<bnagy> XD
<agent_white> True. I only hack when fine bitches like Angelina Jolie are on my arm.
<clone2> die hard 4
<AndroUser2> Attractive girls can't stand dweeb fat fuck hackers
<clone2> enemy of the state
<agent_white> AndroUser2: Not ones who can't hax the gibson.
<AndroUser2> You sound like a faggot right now
<AndroUser2> Maybe a cock in your ass will do you good
<centrx> He is trying to de-soul you. Watch out.
<gr33n7007h> Insecurity 2007
<agent_white> AndroUser2: Are you hitting on me?
<bnagy> ooh what was that retarded one with Sandra Bullock.. with the pi signs...
<bnagy> The Net!
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<agent_white> Wargames ftw. Ferris Bueller goes haxxing.
<gr33n7007h> antitrust
<bnagy> agent_white: nah he's just sharing what his Dad taught him
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<agent_white> OSNAP
<bnagy> I'ma let you finish but I think you'll find that all actual elite hackers agree that Sneakers is the best hacking movie ever
<gr33n7007h> robert redford
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<AndroUser2> Hacking is for niggers
<AndroUser2> Why would you do things that are illegal and stupid? Because you're probably a subhuman nigger
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* bnagy srsly rethinking my whole career now
<agent_white> I agree bnagy. I might go train for the Open Kung Fu tourny to beat Master Li's student.
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<agent_white> I just needa go find Jackie Chan and we can get started.
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<bnagy> last I saw he was in Seoul
<agent_white> In the bathtubs?
<bnagy> but he has a private jet
<bnagy> so you know. He gets around.
<agent_white> I'll give him a call.
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<sincereness> has anyone had a problem with bundle install on mavericks OSX
<bnagy> yes
<sincereness> keep getting an errorPermission denied - /usr/local/rvm/gems/ruby-1.9.3-p392/gems/unf_ext-0.0.6/.document
<bnagy> we see like 4 of them a week, minimum
<sincereness> unf_ext simply wont install and theres no stack fix on it
<sincereness> its pissing me off because i dont want to deal with this shit and focus on other thigns
<bnagy> stop using rvm, stop installing versions managers as root
<sincereness> so wat do?
<bnagy> imho anyway, it's all subjective
<sincereness> everytime i bundle install i get this error
<bnagy> use chruby / ruby-install as a regular user, read the docs carefully, stop following 4 year old rails tutorials on the interweb
<bnagy> also get a proper ruby version, 1.9 is on its deathbed
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<bnagy> and p392 is.. old
<agent_white> "The maintenance man is teaching you?
<agent_white> "It's China Mom, everyone knows kung-fu."
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<bnagy> which is very untrue btw
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<sincereness> installing rvm LOL
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<sincereness> was using jewlerybox to manage gems
<bnagy> ...
<bnagy> BUY BITCOINS IN YOUR TIME, BUT SELL AT 1200
<sincereness> whats wrong with jewlerybox
<bnagy> apart from the spelling?
<sincereness> yes
<sincereness> is that a bad way to manage ruby versions?
<bnagy> is it a way to manage ruby versions?
<bnagy> I thought it was a gemset thing from like 8 years ago
<sincereness> join rubyonrails
<bnagy> under no circumstances
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<AndroUser2> Bitcoin will crash and become worthless
<sincereness> yea bitcoin is worthless now
<sincereness> someone at mtgox xfered all the coins to themself
<sincereness> and called it "hacked"
<sincereness> there code was leaked on hackernews and they werent using version control
<sincereness> just commenting shit out
<gr33n7007h> bnagy, ruby 1.9.3p194
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<gr33n7007h> the need tears a hole
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<gr33n7007h> >> p RUBY_VERSION
<eval-in> gr33n7007h => "2.1.0" ... (https://eval.in/115144)
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<AndroUser2> There's going to be a better cryptographic currency that is even going to be supported by banks
<bnagy> ok.. I can't stab any of you, so I'm going to go and stab computer game sprites for a while. o/
<sincereness> bnagy: thanks updating my ruby version actually fixxed the problem lol
<AndroUser2> HEIL HITLER bnagy o/
<sincereness> even through the sarcasm you are helpful
<AndroUser2> Im Jewish but I love Hitler
<sincereness> FINALLY thanks
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<rails612> How can one get a #rails invite?
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<rails612> I have a semi-general ruby/gem question
<rails612> curious if you can send emails using sendgrid's service marketing emails with something like action mailer/pony or another email program
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<agent_white> rails612: join #rubyonrails
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<rails612> thanks
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<dpg> can I ask rails questions here?
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<dpg> where would the proper place to put one-off scripts be in the rails tree?
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<dpg> best practices?
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<centrx> And...it's gone
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<agent_white> This silence tells me I need to adjust my bedtime.
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<gaussblurinc> agent_white: I have 12.00pm, you?
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<agent_white> gaussblurinc: 1:10am... I guess it's not _too_ late.
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<fd> Hello
<fd> I have a question about RoR web application, can anybody help me?
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<agent_white> fd: Not here. But in #rubyonrails, yes.
<fd> thanks agent_white
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* agent_white nods
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<gaussblurinc> agent_white: wow, coffee helps you in such a early time?
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<agent_white> gaussblurinc: No, but whiskey does!
<agent_white> :D
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<agent_white> ologNation: Hello fellow marijuana state! <3 , Colorado
<agent_white> MT
<agent_white> DAMNIT IRSSI
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<agent_white> ologNation: Oh. Well nevermind then! Good morning! ;)
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<agent_white> bnagy: Watching Sneakers. This is wonderful.
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<gaussblurinc> agent_white: ah, whiskey! great! :)
<agent_white> gaussblueinc: Warning - Not created for mornings.
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<maasha> morn
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<aces1up9939> hello i have a app where i am trying to calculate the bandwidth used. I am snagging html pages.. so am i right to say that the length of the html string of the body is the size of the bandwidth used to grab that page
<aces1up9939> ex html.length reports 15000 so this is 15kb right?
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<aces1up9939> just wonderin if this is as simple as it is.
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<bnagy> it's not
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<apeiros> aces1up9939: you're missing headers and maybe other overhead, you miscalculate compressed transports
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<apeiros> if you can patch the read method used on the IO, then it's as simple as counting the bytes you've read (might still miss some overhead)
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<aces1up9939> apeiros ok i'm running a lot of requests.. say 4000 pages
<aces1up9939> looks to my calculations up around 600mb?
<aces1up9939> that sounds right?
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<itamaryu> Hi guys, do you have any ProTip how to find memory leak ?
<itamaryu> I'm using Ruby 1.9.3p0 + Rails 3.2.17 and my 13 ruby instances taking 1.9GB (!!) memory
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<apeiros> aces1up9939: that's impossible to tell
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<maasha> I am looking for a way of dumping a hash with pretty print to $stdout and update the data displayed in the same location. \r seems to be a hackery thing that works for single lines. curses seems a bit like overkill - and is badly under documented. Ideas?
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<tobiasvl> what do youu mean, "update the data displayed in the same location"?
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<maasha> tobiasvl: So on the command line (bash) I type some command, and then the hash should be pretty printed below the bash prompt. The hash contains some key/value pairs where the values are counters that are updated as the script runs.
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<shevy> maasha there is no easy way to do this without the curses-repositioning
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<maasha> shevy: fair enough. Is is possible to use curses so the bash prompt is not cleared?
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<shevy> curses has its name for a reason :)
<maasha> shevy: #$%&#%(!!!
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<shevy> I think you can see the behaviour nice if you start "htop"
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<shevy> somehow a new buffer is drawn when htop is started, then when htop is exited, you are returned to the old prompt
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<maasha> htop - that was new
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<maasha> .oO(erection)
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<shevy> maasha, what is if you do this from a ruby script: "\r 1800"
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<shevy> and then "\r 1799"
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<shevy> I think that is the only thing you can do - modify one line via \r
<maasha> shevy: so that is single line based. screws up pretty print on multiple lines.
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<maasha> shevy: one could also monkey around with ANSI terminal codes, but that is evil.
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<shevy> I dont think you can modify more than one line with ANSI codes
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<shevy> you could clear the whole screen every time and redraw perhaps
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<shevy> * redraw/dump the data again
<shevy> with curses you could specify what to modify where through absolute positioning
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<hackeron> hey, anyone using event machine? - how would I check how long a request took to process with em-http-request? - http.callback {|http| http.response_header.status} gives me the response status, how would I get the time it took to process?
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<maasha> shevy: I'd like to avoid system clear to keep the bash prompt visible
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<shevy> maasha k I think that is easy to answer then, it can't be done :D
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<maasha> shevy: This sort of works: https://gist.github.com/maasha/82176bb06a9228b62304
<maasha> shevy: here I get the bash prompt back when the script is terminated.
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<shevy> ok but you don't draw at the same position here and you open a new buffer
<shevy> that's like starting a GUI program, doing something with it, then returning back to the shell
<maasha> shevy: I can live with that if it works on the command line and in irb.
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<maasha> shevy: And I think I can define a window at a specified position and draw in that to avoid padding the PP output.
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<shevy> maasha how do you terminate this script btw?
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<maasha> shevy: good old ctrl-c
<maasha> shevy: but the real version will not be a endless loop.
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<shevy> ah ok
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<shevy> I improved it a tiny bit :P http://pastie.org/pastes/8888467/text
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<shevy> maasha can you position it somewhere in the middle?
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<maasha> shevy: a trap! why not "rescue Interrupt"?
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> a single line?
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<maasha> no in a begin rescue end construct
<shevy> you mean I would have to indent the whole code? :D
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<maasha> shevy: The trap seems very Perl'ish where the begin/rescue is more Ruby'ish?
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<shevy> no, I mean
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<shevy> if I have 20 lines of code, with begin rescue, I would have to indent them all to account for the new level introduced by begin/rescue/end
<maasha> shevy: well, yes
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<maasha> shevy: if you place the code in a method, then you dont need to indent.
<shevy> true
<shevy> well
<shevy> I have to indent inside of the method :)
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<shevy> maash how did you find out about PP.pp by the way?
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<maasha> Anyway, I should think the rescue way is more Ruby'ish.
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<shevy> I don't like it much, it interrupts the flow a lot
<maasha> shevy: the PP.pp is in the docs
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<jlebrech> would love modula 3 style kends in ruby
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<shevy> hmm what do you guys use for commandline arguments... so that something like: --help,-help,help would all work when calling a .rb file from the commandline
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<workmad3> shevy: I don't come across many commands that support all of those styles
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<workmad3> shevy: first is typical unix style for a multi-char argument, second is more java style (or, if it was unix, it would be a -h option with elp as a param) and third is the style used by more 'aggregate' commands that act as a way to invoke multiple different commands, e.g. git or things produced by thor
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> and gem!
<shevy> gem install
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<shevy> gem uninstall
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<krz> how can i refactor the CSV part https://gist.github.com/1c2e7668861b503bca2b
<krz> i have CSV.generate do |csv| declared twice
<krz> on lines 5 and 12
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<zaargy> that's not really worth refactoring
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<gener1c> any advice on a good rspec book?
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<krz> zaargy: i have 2-3 other methods that will do CSV.generate do |csv|
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<krz> in that class
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<jzigmund> gener1c: imo this one http://pragprog.com/book/achbd/the-rspec-book is good
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<shevy> am I the only one who often mistypes csv with cvs
<tobiasvl> shevy: no i do it all the time
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<shevy> <3
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<certainty> that's intentional
<certainty> both stand for pain
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<apeiros> krz: I agree with zaargy - not worth refatoring
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<certainty> gener1c: yeah the one mentioned is pretty good. It also covers some BDD theory
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<certainty> and we all love theory, don't we? :)
<shevy> BSD theory?
<ichilton> Anyone got a neater way of doing this? - discs = discs.map { |disc| disc[:some_field] = 1; disc }
<shevy> not sure what this does
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<ichilton> i.e I have an array of hashes and I want to add something to each hash
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<w|t> well you can do map!
<shevy> hehe
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<ichilton> true
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<ichilton> is there anything better than map though instead of adding to hash and returning it
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<w|t> if that's a hash i don't think map represents it well. i think each would be a good idea.
<w|t> i still don't know of any add/set all method though, sorry
<ichilton> yep, each is much nicer actually - doh
<ichilton> thanks
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<chridal> So, I've written som validations on my models. On the one model it works just fine, but on the other it won't run at all. Really weird!
<chridal> Any ideas?
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<chridal> lol. it was a typo. 'validate' instead of 'validates', never even thought about that.
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<daxroc1> is ::Digest::MD5.file(current_path).hexdigest safe to use with large files, should I be reading chunk by chunk ?
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<certainty> tagrudev: yolo
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<tagrudev> certainty, yo
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<certainty> daxroc1: then if you have those chunks what would you do? you still want to compress the entire file, no?
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<shevy> I still find it funny that print "Hello World!" is an error on python3
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<The_NetZ> hehe
<certainty> shevy: it is?
<The_NetZ> shevy: hey, just the person I'd like to see :P
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<The_NetZ> certainty: yeah, they use something else to delimit strings, I think
<shevy> yearh certainty ... SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<certainty> The_NetZ: I see
<tobiasvl> shevy: they're moving in the wrong direction, they should REMOVE parens :)
<shevy> tobiasvl hehe
<The_NetZ> shevy: know of any way to embed a raw ruby script, like as a string, into an exe?
<tobiasvl> shevy: although I think print went from being a builtin to a regular method, which is good
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<shevy> tobiasvl so much effort in python2 to python3 just over () vs no; in ruby it being optional, no energy is lost in such a discussion because both ways work
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<The_NetZ> *in c++
<daxroc1> certainty: compress? talking about read the file by chunk and md5.update(f.read(block)) or is it safe to use ::Digest::MD5.file(current_path).hexdigest
<shevy> The_NetZ I am a total C++ noob. I only know that you can use << to append to a string in C++, which I liked
<The_NetZ> yeah, that's cool aint it?
<shevy> The_NetZ but you can surely call the ruby interpreter from inside a cpp file
<The_NetZ> anyone? I know you can do it in jruby
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<The_NetZ> shevy: yeah, but the interpreter is embedded in my c++ application :P
<daxroc1> certainty: Files can range from Kb to GB
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<shevy> The_NetZ well call it! I have no idea how but I am sure it can be done
<certainty> tagrudev: computing a hash is just compression. I didn't know there was a variant that allowed to feed chunks. Using smaller blocks is feasable than
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<certainty> daxroc1: ^
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<shevy> tobago, this is funny: "One thing to note about Biopython is that it often provides multiple ways of ?doing the same thing.?"
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<certainty> daxroc1: you don't want to read gigs of data into ram
<shevy> sorry
<shevy> I meant tobiasvl
<daxroc1> certainty: Thats what I was thinking. Not getting the same checksum
<shevy> it is kinda funny how they even describe it: " Things have improved in recent releases, but this can still be frustrating as in Python there should ideally be one right way to do something. However, this can also be a real benefit because it gives you lots of flexibility and control over the libraries."
<tobiasvl> shevy: haha, nice
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<shevy> sounds a lot like perl and ruby to me
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<chridal> Why on earth won't validate presence: true work if the value is nil? it is clearly not present then
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<dweeb_> I want to remove leading, trailing and repeated dashes from a string. Is there a better way than this?string.chomp('-').squeeze('-').reverse.chomp('-').reverse
<chridal> do you need to write custom validations to deal with values that can be nil?
<tobiasvl> "it's awesome to be able to do stuff more than one way, and also awesome to be forced to do it one way" <- well that's more than one way
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<daxroc1> any one point out why I dont get matching md5 with md5sum ?
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<shevy> tobiasvl hehe
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<certainty> >> require 'digest/md5'; md5 = Digest::MD5.new; (md5 << "test" << "bar").hexdigest == Digest::MD5.hexdigest("testbar")
<eval-in> certainty => true (https://eval.in/115335)
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<certainty> daxroc1: the docs suggest that this works. They are sparse however
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<daxroc1> certainty: https://gist.github.com/daxroc/9410375 works good
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<MrPopinjay> Hi guys. Can anyone recommend me a curses gem please?
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<MrPopinjay> I'm looking at 'curses', formerly of the stdlib, and ncursesw
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<certainty> daxroc1: hmm, i wonder why
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<shevy> test
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<shevy> TEST
<The_NetZ> shevy: fail
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<shevy> The_NetZ hey now I know I am still connected :)
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<certainty> shevy: no you aren't. This is just a dream. You're still at home, 3 hours till work
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<shevy> certainty now you have depressed me
<The_NetZ> he pushed you down? o.0
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<certainty> shevy: i didn't mean to. But since you now know that you're dreaming, you still have 3 hours to do the most interesting stuff like flying around, walking up walls etc.
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<shevy> The_NetZ let's cut his balls off
<certainty> who said I had balls?
<shevy> ur mom!
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<certainty> shevy: why would she know?
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<shevy> certainty she found the pics
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<certainty> shevy: yeah, but she got those from your mum
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<zorak> can i have a method that use only if, without elsif or else?
<zorak> or the methot will dont work with only if?
<certainty> zorak: sure it can
<zorak> but dont go do to nothing if the if stantment is false
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<certainty> zorak: yes in that case the method will return nil (if nothing follows your if)
<certainty> >> def foo(val); if val; "yes" end end; [foo(true),foo(false)]
<eval-in> certainty => ["yes", nil] (https://eval.in/115490)
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<ecualombian> hello all, I'm new to irc/ruby/rails all of the above. is it cool to just throw out questions?
<xibalba> absolutely. if you're going to paste alot of code, use the gist link in the topic
<ecualombian> thanks xibalba
<mostlybadfly> Welcome ecualombian
<mostlybadfly> I'm new as well and have been asking questions. Everyone is very helpful
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<ecualombian> so I guess my question is regarding some questions regarding ruby code in html.erb files vs. accessing ruby functions in a helper ruby file in a rails app...
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<certainty> ecualombian: also note that there is #RubyOnRails where you find people that are more into Rails. There is of course an intersection between the people there and here
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<monzie> Hello everyone.
<ecualombian> currently I wrote a ruby function in the html.erb file and I'm trying to "move it" to a helper file to separate the bulk of ruby code out of the view and into the helper
<ecualombian> thanks for the note certainty
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<ecualombian> at the moment I believe no one is in the rubyonrails forum, but I'll keep that in mind
<ecualombian> thanks.
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<ecualombian> The thing is, when I try moving the code, I'm unsure how I can render html from those helpers back onto the root html.erb file
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<certainty> ecualombian: #rubyonrails is currently active. Your helpers need to return the fragments
<kayloos> ecualombian: HTML should stay in the .html.erb file, only the data should come from any helpers/controllers
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<ecualombian> hmm
<certainty> kayloos: tell that to rails builtin helpers ;) but i generally agree
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<certainty> ecualombian: what's the specific problem you're struggling with?
<kayloos> ecualombian: try to explain what you want to do more precisely
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<ecualombian> ok.
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<ecualombian> well, I'm currently working on generating a nested comments system
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<ecualombian> A document that is uploaded is parsed by paragraph and rendered on the html page
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<ecualombian> each paragraph or Section has comments associated with it.
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<ecualombian> I'm working on the rendering comment html.erb page
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<certainty> sounds more like job for a partial until now
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<ecualombian> so I am using a partial to first
<ecualombian> check each section, render its text, then inside this partial, I call another for comments, sending in the list of "parent" comments
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<ecualombian> from the comment partial, I have written the function I mentioned prior which renders each current comment and recursively calls itself until all comments are rendered and indented plus some indenting depending on how deep
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<ecualombian> am I being clear?
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<certainty> ecualombian: the question is missing :)
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<ecualombian> certainty: ha ha thanks. I guess the question is I have lines in each comment where I use the <%= tag to print perhaps a user name associated with the comment or other such attribute. My question is how can I put this in the helper function?, or can I?
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<kayloos> ecualombian: I can either help you do things the standard way, or help you dive into the rabbit hole with this recursive function. What do you want?
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<ecualombian> kayloos: the standard way might be best first
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<ecualombian> kayloos: thanks
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<kayloos> ecualombian: Ok, so it's not normal to have a recursive function within your views. Instead you should do @comments.each do |comment| etc.
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<kayloos> If you have the same view logic all over the place, the way to organize it is to put it into a partial, or a view with a filename that starts with '_', and then render that each place you want it
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<ecualombian> kayloos: so actually, I use the .each to recurse...hmm....the reason I didn't use each is because each comment has a parent_id and there was no clear way I could think of to render a thread, and I did not want to have to add a thread attribute or something like that
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<certainty> you can however use that partial recursively by passing in the current comments as a local along with the nesting
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<reppard> hello
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<kayloos> ecualombian: So which is rendered first? Is it Parent > Child > Grandchild or Granchild > Child > Parent
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<ecualombian> kayloos: starts with parent because it is the one most easily renderable
<ecualombian> because I could easily select parent_id == 0
<ecualombian> if that makes sense
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<kayloos> ecualombian: So call .each first on all the parents, and then call it on each set of children. IE: @parents.each {|p| p.children.each {|c| puts c.title } }
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<certainty> that way you have to know the level of nesting upfront
<kayloos> true
<certainty> probably not what he wants
<certainty> i'm only guessing though
<kayloos> ecualombian: do you want infinite nesting?
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<ecualombian> kayloos: actually currently the loop in the partial has a depth parameter so I can change what's rendered
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<ecualombian> that is how much is rendered
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<ecualombian> kayloos: I don't think .children is defined for each parent object
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<ecualombian> parents currently are ONLY identified by the parent_id
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<ecualombian> kayloos: maybe I'm already doing what you ask. to recurse I called .where(:parent_id => root.id).each root being the current comment or parent
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<kayloos> ecualombian: Yes, that relationship is called a has-many relationship, since multiple children can have the same parent.
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<kayloos> ecualombian: Yes, exactly
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<certainty> i'd probably have a partial _comment.htm.erb with something like this: <h1>comment.title</h1> <%= render comment.children if comment.has_children? %> initially invoking it with just <%= render @comments %> of course... obviously you'd display more than just the title, as this is just an example. Also i'm assuming that #children returns a collection of comments that are all children of the receiver.
<ecualombian> kayloos: so if it hasn't been clear, I've got nesting to work, I'm mostly trying to figure out how to move the ruby logic out of the html.erb into a ruby file, but maybe the "logic" of the loop which essentially is just rendering those attributes using that .where recursive call to each child but there is also indent logic
<certainty> you can pass in the level of nesting as via locals if you wish and don't recurse further if a given level has been reached
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<certainty> woops of course that was supposed to read <h1><%= comment.title %></h1>
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<ecualombian> certainty: I don't think I have access to .children as parent is not a model class. no active record association involved. everything is a comment.
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<toretore> instance_eval & closures
<toretore> don't you just love metaprogramming
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<workmad3> toretore: yup... but I don't love people doing shit with metaprogramming that doesn't need it :)
<certainty> ecualombian: doesn't matter if it's activerecord or not. Your comment should be an object that follows a sensible tree-like api
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<toretore> workmad3: someone in this case being me :P
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<certainty> which reduces to workmad3 doesn't love toretore
<kayloos> ecualombian: hold on for a min
<workmad3> certainty: :D
<workmad3> certainty: fair assessment ;)
<certainty> <- inference engine
<ecualombian> kayloos: sure
<certainty> with certainty factors
<workmad3> certainty: woo! you're now almost as useful as prolog...
<certainty> yes.
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<toretore> but it's so pretty when it's done
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<toretore> nevermind weird bugs
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<certainty> closures are poor man's objects
* certainty hides
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<certainty> or was it the other way around? :D
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<toretore> they're useful, but it's shared state
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<certainty> yes it is so you better play nice
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<certainty> nicely?
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<toretore> like don't reassign shared variables
<toretore> which i did
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<kayloos> ecualombian: Take a look at the answer in this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4308787/using-rails-polymorphism-for-nested-comments
<kayloos> ecualombian: Pulling out your looping logic that is contaminated with html/erb into a ruby file is a bad idea. You should use partials, like certainty suggested
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<kayloos> ecualombian: Plus even if you did pull it out, you would have to find some way of rendering it properly, which is kinda troublesome
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<kayloos> ecualombian: The infinitely nested comment problem is quite common, so there will be a lot of resources on the net
<ecualombian> kayloos: thanks for the link, I'm gonna spend some time looking at this
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<ecualombian> kayloos: I had looked at a bunch of different strands on nesting comments, but I don't think this one on stackoverflow had popped up
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<kayloos> ecualombian: no problem. I think coming up with your own approach is awesome, but in terms of using a framework it can often be quite painful.
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<ecualombian> certainty: thanks for the suggestions with partials, I'll look to see if I actually do have access to .children as you suggest. That would make it much easier than I'm doing I think. Since the html.erb file I'm in is a "2nd layer" partial already, maybe yet another partial will make it feel less like I need to refactor
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<certainty> ecualombian: note that you don't need polymorphism unless you want many things to be commentable on. The basic idea there is to use an appropriate representation of a tree inside a relational database
<certainty> there == the SO page linked
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<certainty> some for of nested set is most prominent. At least it was a while back
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<certainty> personally i'd go with recursive CTEs in postgres, but that may not be an option
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<ecualombian> thanks again yall. I've got some looking at code to do
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<certainty> have fun
<certainty> also remember to instance_eval some closures
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<ecualombian> certainty: I honestly don't know what "instance_eval some closures" means
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<benzrf> yosafbridge:
<benzrf> *yo
<benzrf> i wrote a super basic actors thingy how does it look http://bpaste.net/show/186145
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<benzrf> oh wait let me move that to gist and spaceify ItSANgo
<benzrf> *it
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<benzrf> ankushio: ?
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<ankushio> It's a cheatsheet for ruby/gem version management
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<nvll> Would you prefer to use single quotes or double quotes?
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<sourab> Hello
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<Jamo_> Howdy
<nvll> Do you use double quotes for strings without interpolation?
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<elaptics> nvll: yes
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<elaptics> nvll: always double quotes
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<elaptics> nvll: there's less incidental changes from a version control perspective then if you later decide you need to interpolate
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<elaptics> since there's basically no performance difference
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<olivier_bK> how can i check the syntax of given date ?
<elaptics> olivier_bK: check how?
<elaptics> olivier_bK: if you know the expected format you can use #strptime and check that it can parse it to a date
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<olivier_bK> like that d = date.strftime(%y-%m-%d)
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<elaptics> olivier_bK: no, strptime
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<elaptics> olivier_bK: e.g. Date.strptime('2001-02-03', '%Y-%m-%d')
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<elaptics> olivier_bK: if you give it an invalid date, it'll raise an exception
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<olivier_bK> ok i found how
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<olivier_bK> do you have an idea how i can remove T...
<olivier_bK> 1.9.2-p320 :387 > valid_date? date
<olivier_bK> 2011-02-02T00:00:00+00:00
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<elaptics> olivier_bK: what are you trying to do?
<olivier_bK> the user give a date like that 2011-02-03
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<olivier_bK> i want to check if the date correspond to %y-%d-%m
<olivier_bK> and i print it
<olivier_bK> but when i do that i get T00:00:00+00:00
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<talntid> Looking to hire a ruby developer who wants to work on an existing screen scraping/normalizing application. Message me if interested. Thanks :)\
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<itamaryu> Hi guys, do you have any ProTip how to find memory leak ?
<itamaryu> I'm using Ruby 1.9.3p0 + Rails 3.2.17 and my 13 ruby instances taking 1.9GB (!!) memory
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<jtza8> itamaryu: Sounds like it's probably C code in a gem you're using?
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<jtza8> itamaryu: You could try using valgrind.
<jtza8> (valgrind.org)
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<realmen> hi
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<Karu> Hi folks, wondering if there's a way to get String#match to return an object populated with nils instead of *a* nil when there's a failure with named capture groups
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<shevy> can you give an example Karu
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<slash_nick> >> "".match(nil)
<eval-in> slash_nick => wrong argument type nil (expected Regexp) (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/115788)
<slash_nick> we can do it right here, Karu :)
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<Karu> so ideally, I'd get subject[:key] => nil
<Karu> instead the object returned is nil
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<Karu> i'm trying to get my tests to return meaningful information here :)
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<shevy> slash_nick your example does not work
<shevy> Karu and example input to test this method?
<slash_nick> shevy: wasn't supposed to... i was hoping i could prompt for a live example from Karu
<shevy> slash_nick almost, now I only need to have an input string before I can try and reproduce
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<shevy> right now my head is not even sure it understood the question
<Karu> quickly sanitizing some stuff from my program, one second
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<shevy> though probably you may have to extend your method
<slash_nick> it's not long enough?
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<shevy> it's not sophisticated enough for what he wants to achieve
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<Karu> Updated the existing gist
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<shevy> which one of these does not work?
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<Karu> The final [SPAM] one because it does not match the regex at all
<b1101> I have a problem with gem installing mysql2. It's due to the gcc libraries in my linux distro being multilib. getting this error when doing gem install mysql2 "skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libmysqlclient.so" is there any way I can build it and have it working ?
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<Karu> Which is fine and expected, but instead of failing the test, it breaks the test script outright because i'm trying to [] on a nil
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> you need to change the method
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<shevy> inside of the method, if that regex returns nil, handle that case
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<shevy> otherwise, return as is (the default you already use here)
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<Karu> Mm, that's what I figured. But there's otherwise not a "simple" way to tell .match to return the empty groups?
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<shevy> I guess .match applied on a string object will give you a MatchData object in the end
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<centrx> >> "".match(//)
<eval-in> centrx => #<MatchData ""> (https://eval.in/115817)
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<shevy> there is post_match ... pre_match ... hmmm
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<shevy> >> f1,f2,f3,f4 = /(.)(.)(\d+)(\d)/.match("THX1138.").captures
<eval-in> shevy => ["H", "X", "113", "8"] (https://eval.in/115818)
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<centrx> Yes, #captures is the whiz-bang-doodle
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<Karu> Hehe - thanks!
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<fraterlaetus> How can I select an individual hash in an array of hashes?
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<centrx> fraterlaetus, Clarify
<fraterlaetus> ok, so I have an array:
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<fraterlaetus> [{"NAME"=>"sda", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:0", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"8G", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"disk", "MOUNTPOINT"=>nil}, {"NAME"=>"├─sda1", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:1", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"243M", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"part", "MOUNTPOINT"=>"/boot"}, {"NAME"=>"├─sda2", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:2", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"1K", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"part", "MOUNTPOINT"=>nil}, {"NAME"=>"└─sda5", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:5", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"7.8G", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"part", "MO
<fraterlaetus> UNTPOINT"=>nil}, {"NAME"=>"└─sda5_crypt", "MAJ:MIN"=>"(dm-0)", "RM"=>"252:0", "SIZE"=>"0", "RO"=>"7.8G", "TYPE"=>"0", "MOUNTPOINT"=>"crypt"}, {"NAME"=>"├─Ubuntu--vg-root", "MAJ:MIN"=>"(dm-1)", "RM"=>"252:1", "SIZE"=>"0", "RO"=>"5.7G", "TYPE"=>"0", "MOUNTPOINT"=>"lvm"}, {"NAME"=>"└─Ubuntu--vg-swap_1", "MAJ:MIN"=>"(dm-2)", "RM"=>"252:2", "SIZE"=>"0", "RO"=>"2G", "TYPE"=>"0", "MOUNTPOINT"=>"lvm"}, {"NAME"=>"└─cryptswap1",
<fraterlaetus> "MAJ:MIN"=>"(dm-3)", "RM"=>"252:3", "SIZE"=>"0", "RO"=>"2G", "TYPE"=>"0", "MOUNTPOINT"=>"crypt"}, {"NAME"=>"sdb", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:16", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"8G", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"disk", "MOUNTPOINT"=>nil}, {"NAME"=>"sdc", "MAJ:MIN"=>"8:32", "RM"=>"0", "SIZE"=>"8G", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"disk", "MOUNTPOINT"=>nil}, {"NAME"=>"sr0", "MAJ:MIN"=>"11:0", "RM"=>"1", "SIZE"=>"1024M", "RO"=>"0", "TYPE"=>"rom", "MOUNTPOINT"=>nil}]
<fraterlaetus> irb(main):006:0> merged[0]
<centrx> oh dear
<centrx> Use gist.github.com
<shevy> lol
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<shevy> fraterlaetus yay man!
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<shevy> fraterlaetus show the channel how it is done
<shevy> MORE!
<shevy> I demand MORE!!!
<centrx> shevy, Be careful or I will pipe /dev/urandom into the channel
<shevy> hey, there could be a good melody hiding there
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<centrx> So far I've only been making sentences from it
<centrx> Threat's pawed hovercraft scopes cash's!
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<centrx> But the real /dev/urandom has so many non-ASCII characters
<centrx> raw
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<fraterlaetus> neat! Gist.github.com
<shevy> fraterlaetus the best is to store a hash as a hash
<fraterlaetus> didn't know about it
<shevy> fraterlaetus my recommendation would be to, if you need a hash anyway, convert the whole thing into a hash, then continue to operate on it
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<fraterlaetus> That's what I did with the merged bit, I thought?
<fraterlaetus> with to_h
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<xeno> For some reason I cannot see the results of my include on the same string line executing with ruby -e: http://pastie.org/8895653
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<xeno> For some reason I cannot see the results of my require on the same string line executing with ruby -e: http://pastie.org/8895653
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<shevy> fraterlaetus what is to_h, array has no #to_h method
<slash_nick> wow pastie takes forever to load huh?... gists are usually faster
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<centrx> shevy, It does in Ruby 2.1
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<shevy> ack
<shevy> indeed
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<RubyPanther> facets is what you call ActiveSupport a year before the feature gets copied lol
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<fraterlaetus> basically, I'm trying to do something like this:
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<RubyPanther> trans would be a top Rubyist if he wrote better emails
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<fraterlaetus> so that I can enumerate through all devices in lsblk and determine if there are unmounted disks with identical geometry
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<fraterlaetus> I'm trying to write a cookbook for mdadm/drbd/nfs and my team has challenged me to do it in ruby instead of bash
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<xeno> Looks like nobody sees anythng obvious about why this simple string script gets a method error.
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<fraterlaetus> so, how can I populate HDD.new with merged[0]?
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<terrellt> xeno: A module isn't a class. You can't call instance methods on it directly unless you call module_function.
<fraterlaetus> I've tried sda = HDD.new( #{merged[0]} )
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<xeno> Ok.
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<slash_nick> xeno: have you tried it in the console?
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<shevy> slash_nick, are you working on any cool ruby projects?
<toretore> fraterlaetus: are you just trying random stuff hoping one of them will work?
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<RubyPanther> fraterlaetus: search on "ruby splat"
<shevy> fraterlaetus did you write class HDD
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<shevy> fraterlaetus keep in mind, you need #{} only in a string
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<banister> terrellt even if it was a class, that code still wouldn't work ;)
<shevy> so rather than HDD.new( #{merged[0]} ), it would either be:
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<shevy> HDD.new( "#{merged[0]}" )
<shevy> or
<shevy> HDD.new( merged[0] )
<fraterlaetus> toretore: no. I went through the rubymonk tutorials and am trying to apply what I learned to a real world task.
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* shevy pokes fraterlaetus
<fraterlaetus> please excuse my utter lack of familiarity with ruby.
<shevy> look up!
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<toretore> fraterlaetus: it's not clear to my what you're trying to do
<fraterlaetus> shevy: I tried that 1st.
<xeno> When I require the file in anothe file, then I can access the module function with XCTM::failT.
<shevy> good, now you know why you will not try #{merged[0]} again fraterlaetus :)
<xeno> That is part of what is stumping me.
<shevy> outside of a string that is
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<banister> xeno no you can't
<toretore> fraterlaetus: that lack is what i was pointing out. you can't expect to be able to write something in ruby when you have an "utter lack of familiarity" with it
<banister> xeno you must be including XCTM into main or into the other class
<xeno> Yes. I am. So I cannot do it without Include?
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<xeno> It seems there must be a way to see it with a full path.
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<banister> xeno not unless you're doing something else, unless you're expilctly including or extending the module somewhere
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<banister> xeno simply requiring that code, is not enough for it to work
<xeno> Ok.
<slash_nick> shevy: eh, it's a frankenstein shell/ruby project... but we have a server that in addition to its other responsibilities has become a defacto long term raw data archival location... and it's getting full. I'm writing some shell and ruby scripts to slurp all that data up and persist it in a distributed fashion... the server will become a near term archive rather than long term.
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<fraterlaetus> shevy: when I do sda = HDD.new( merged[0] ) I get 'wrong number of arguments(1 for 7)'
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<fraterlaetus> but merged[0] spits out 7 key => value pairs
<shevy> slash_nick a frankenstein shell? what a cool name :)
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<shevy> fraterlaetus well you pass only one argument here ok?
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<slash_nick> the core app here is called cheetah... i'm calling this one chester
<fraterlaetus> ahh
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<shevy> fraterlaetus if it were 7, you would have to use: HDD.new( 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 )
<shevy> fraterlaetus so you must turn your array into individual components; you should be able to do this via the * splat operator, *merged[0]
<fraterlaetus> Muchos gracias shevy!
<shevy> I like cool names, Frankenstein shell sounds awesome :)
<toretore> don't teach splat to a noob
<toretore> first he should understand how passing arguments works
<fraterlaetus> that's immensely helpful
<shevy> yes toretore do that
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<fraterlaetus> toretore: perhaps instead of being butthurt that someone else lent a much needed hand, you could take notes and do the same?
<fraterlaetus> just a thought
<fraterlaetus> :)
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<fraterlaetus> (cuddles)
<toretore> if, as he says, "merged[0] spits out 7 key => value pairs", it's not going to work anyway
<shevy> some people like to protect knowledge, some people like to learn, some people like to teach
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<shevy> yeah, if he has a fatality he'll ask on #ruby again - where is the problem
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<fraterlaetus> shevy: that put me on the right track mate.
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<slash_nick> HDD.new(*(1.upto(7).to_a))
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<xeno> Thanks.
<toretore> fraterlaetus: stop being a dick. what i'm trying to do is to make you learn how things work instead of relying on someone to tell you the magic word to make your code work each time
<shevy> good that IRC is not exclusive
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<fraterlaetus> It's ironic you'd accuse me of being a jerk.
<fraterlaetus> that's all I'll say.
<fraterlaetus> :)
<toretore> if you go and use *merged[0] now and it so happens to work, you'll have "solved" your problem without learning anything
<shevy> fraterlaetus k I think toretore wants you to understand the * operator first
<toretore> no
<toretore> exactly the opposite
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<shevy> ok he does not want you to understand it at all
<toretore> when he doesn't understand the difference between passing one argument and passing 7, he should learn that first
<fraterlaetus> lol
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<slash_nick> oh, method signatures first
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<toretore> if you say "just use *" it's just some magic crap that makes it work
<terrellt> All hail *
<shevy> there are some blog entries that are helpful; if you are curious about splat, you could look at http://endofline.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/the-strange-ruby-splat/ or http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14303499/splat-on-a-hash but the easiest way is to use irb and try it a few times
<terrellt> Magic crap that makes it work.
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<shevy> and to google for * !
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<shevy> :(
<shevy> leads me to ruby on rails as first result...
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<terrellt> shevy: Wildcards dude.
<terrellt> shevy: You need to look for "splat operator."
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<xeno> Is it possible that minitest does something special to the module environment?
<slash_nick> ruby splay
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<slash_nick> even the typo gets a good hit ^
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<shevy> ohhh
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<shevy> fraterlaetus, there is even more, even double splat: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18289152/what-does-double-splat-operators-do-in-ruby
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<shevy> def foo(a, *b, **c)
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<fraterlaetus> shevy: you're the man. Thank you for your patience and effort.
<fraterlaetus> I appreciate it greatly.
<shevy> wow
<toretore> and then there's & you should really start using that
<shevy> it is indeed called "double splat"
<toretore> with instance_eval
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<slash_nick> shevy: not to be confused with Math#exp's **
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<slash_nick> oh Float#**
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<shevy> huh?
<shevy> there is a Float#** ?
<terrellt> Exponents brah.
<shevy> >> 3 ** 3
<eval-in> shevy => 27 (https://eval.in/115852)
<terrellt> Well
<terrellt> >> 3.02 ** 2.0
<eval-in> terrellt => 9.1204 (https://eval.in/115853)
<xeno> That seems backwards that you can see constants in a module, but not methods. What is intended with that I wonder?
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<shevy> xeno see?
<shevy> what do you mean with 'see'
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<centrx> Whoa, Ruby does exponents too? Wow
<xeno> Oh. I was able to puts XCTM::MyConstant, but I cannot run XCTM::mymethod.
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<slash_nick> shevy: he's doin this: https://gist.github.com/rthbound/f03ee44297b4c39f1f29
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<talntid> Looking to hire a ruby developer who wants to work on an existing screen scraping/normalizing application. Message me if interested. Thanks
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<havenwood> slash_nick: that's not how you bongo a bingo!
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<shevy> xeno well you can add a class method there
<hfp> Hey, if I wanted a Ruby icon to put on my website to indicate which particular projects are made with Ruby, where could I find such an icon? Is there an "official icon pack"?
<slash_nick> havenwood: bingo!
<RubyPanther> scrape scrape scrape scrape scrape, it is like a cross between being a programmer, and a meth head
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<xeno> Yes, I noticed that too. I just wonder why it's set up that way.
<shevy> >> module Bingo; def self.bongo; puts 'bongo in the house!'; end; end; Bingo.bongo
<eval-in> shevy => bongo in the house! ... (https://eval.in/115862)
<shevy> xeno why do you name your modules and methods bingo bongo :P
<talntid> haha
<xeno> I didn't. That was another guy/gal.
<slash_nick> shevy: i did that :)
<RubyPanther> talntid: Just pay the company for a copy of their data instead of stealing it
<slash_nick> i'm rthbound
<RubyPanther> scraper solved
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<RubyPanther> You can tell I've done that job before, right? lolol
<slash_nick> shevy: because Foo#bar was taken
<talntid> RubyPanther: it is from 50 different entities. the data is free, just not normalized.
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<havenwood> toretore: nice, i didn't realize they had an official CC one
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<shevy> slash_nick hehe funny names... frankenstein ... bingo bongo ... if I ever have to get a name for my company, I'll ask you
<agent_white> Afternoon!
<havenwood> g'day!
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* agent_white tips hat
<talntid> and actually, 45 of the scrapers are already written and working :-)
<slash_nick> shevy: why thank ya
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<RubyPanther> usually that means "free as in, no DRM"
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<shevy> RubyPanther even the W3 Consortium embraces DRM now
<havenwood> talntid: what are you using to scrape? mechanize?
<talntid> free as in.... the data is public record.
<talntid> havenwood: yes
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<talntid> and in some rare cases, selenium
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<RubyPanther> shevy: DRM is great, it warns me what data not to want
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<RubyPanther> I use lots of government data in my apps, most of my data is real public records, and they're generally in a downloadable, parsed format
<shevy> lol
<shevy> you will miss out all the cool advertisement
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<talntid> RubyPanther: good for you. in my case, it is real public records, but is not in a downloadable, parsed format.
<RubyPanther> So when I heard "scraper" and then "public record" I'm thinking, public as in the door wasn't locked. Public in the way a restaurant is public
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<RubyPanther> talntid: so what is the data?
<shevy> government p0rn
<talntid> secretary of state business registration details
<slash_nick> oh shevy cool ruby project... i want to use this to make gifs of earth/mars/jupiter/moons/etc spinning: http://ea.rthbound.com/usno-imagery/ ... i guess it'd be easier to just create an array of urls and let some service generate the gif
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<RubyPanther> You're supposed to get a copy of that on a DVD in the mail from the State
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<talntid> I'm not asking for alternative ways to do it, RubyPanther, I'm asking for someone to do it.
<talntid> thanks though
<talntid> :-)
<RubyPanther> talntid: And we know you aren't paying market rates, because having a programmer scrape it will cost just as much as paying a consultant to collect all the DVDs and send you a copy
<talntid> you know nothing of what I am willing to pay
<talntid> you just assume you can get DVD's and all is well with the world
<havenwood> You Know Nothing, Jon Snow!
<talntid> business entity data changes daily, and they aren't going to send daily DVD's
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<RubyPanther> talntid: Are you claiming that you're paying market rates or better? Just so anybody who responded to you knows the answer.
<havenwood> really annoying that SOS's don't have a uniform restful api, would be so simple
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<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, what is the market rate?
<mikhailvs> just, for reference
<talntid> havenwood: that's what I'm doing.
<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: $65-120/hr
<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, prove it, or else it's just a figure you pulled from thin air
<shevy> slash_nick sounsd quite advanced
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<havenwood> talntid: nice
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<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: Prove me wrong or your challenge is from thin air!
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<havenwood> The air is thin!
<mikhailvs> I'm not the one making any claims
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<mikhailvs> I didn't say you are wrong, just that i want evidence
<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: I'm an expert, I don't need to cite an expert.
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<slash_nick> shevy: it's either downloading a handful of images and processing them into a gif with imagemagick or something.... or just generating urls to the images (provided by the US govt), and passing those to some webservice that generates gifs from urls
<RubyPanther> I'll write it up as a report for $500
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<agent_white> "I'm an expert." - RubyPanther, Professional Expert.
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<mikhailvs> lol
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<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, I am experter than you
<mikhailvs> I'll write a report on it for you
<mikhailvs> for $5000
<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: prove it, what is the market rate for Ruby consultants?
<shevy> wow
<shevy> those prices go up here quickly
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<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, what is the market rate for ruby market rate analysts?
<RubyPanther> Any expert can prepare a $500 or $5000 report
<agent_white> Fuck. I'll do it for $9-12/hr. but it won't get done fast.
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<slash_nick> s/fast/ever, thanks/
<RubyPanther> agent_white is ready for a future in scrapers
<agent_white> I have my cape already!
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<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: So far you have provided no expert opinion, are you sure you're an expert?
<shevy> agent_white are you still railsing your way to fortune?
<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, nono. I'm an expert on "expert" experts
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<RubyPanther> Okay, so not an expert
<slash_nick> why are you guys no longer perts?
<RubyPanther> You need an English degree to be an expert on scare quotes
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<RubyPanther> And you need an Education degree to be an expert on fake experts.
<agent_white> shevy: Pretty much :/ I'm in this limbo of still trying to learn enough to score an internship.
<mikhailvs> Which, I'm guessing you have. Which, I'm guessing is why you are so fucking condescending you twat.
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<shinobi_one> lol
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<RubyPanther> Internships are only useful for people who need a work/education credit as a degree requirement
<slash_nick> he's a pro-descending
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: That is so not true.
<shevy> agent_white don't worry too much about having perfect skills
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<RubyPanther> agent_white: think "jr programmer" not "intern," the requirements are the same but the jr programmer gets paid
<agent_white> RubyPanther: I'm on my "extended break" from college at the moment. So I'm looking for one just to learn :)
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Many Computer Science related internships or programming interships pay pretty well.
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Those are a different use case than agent_white's ;)
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<slash_nick> agent_white: are you the guy in denver?
<shinobi_one> agent_white: Many internships require you to be attending.
<slash_nick> err, colorado?
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<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, if you are an expert, and are making >$60/hr.. how are you able to afford something as expensive as this: https://maps.google.ie/maps?client=ubuntu-browser&ie=UTF-8&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=44.041038,-123.121022&cbp=13,175.1,0,0,0&cbll=44.041281,-123.121051&q=1830+W+17TH+AVE+eugene,+or&ei=PyMaU8mhDs2GogTYq4LQCg&ved=0CCoQxB0wAA
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<RubyPanther> High paid internships are for genius kids who aren't qualified for the job, but are expected to skip quickly to Sr. level
<mikhailvs> seems like you'd meed more than that...
<agent_white> RubyPanther: Aye, and that's where the limbo area is. Internship<->Jr.Programmer.
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<agent_white> slash_nick: Yessir! Shit did I speak with you awhile back about this?
<talntid> mikhailvs: does have a good question. that's an awfully baller place for an expert
<slash_nick> agent_white: that's right...
<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: Congratulations, you used the internet to find a place I lived... in 1998
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from many CS internships go for 20+ an hour.
<RubyPanther> *clap*
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<shevy> agent_white you want a highly paid internship?
<slash_nick> shevy: he wants no money...
<agent_white> slash_nick: Oh boy... I misplaced your information.
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<agent_white> shevy: Full-time, non-paid. :)
<slash_nick> agent_white: it's okay... dragondev
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: If they require living in a large city, my question is, what do the fast food jobs pay? Like in SF, fast food starts at $13/hr
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<RubyPanther> $20/hr in a big city is what an entry-level roofer might make
<shevy> agent_white hmm but it must be at some important company?
<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, so you're saying, if I go there, I wont find you?
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: They don't require living in a large city.
<slash_nick> RubyPanther: my entry level ruby/rails job started at 14
<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: lol "d'oh"
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<slash_nick> Alabama pays way below average
<RubyPanther> mikhailvs: You seem to misunderstand the nature of time
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Does a roofer after his internship go on to make $60k+ a year salary starting though?
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<agent_white> shevy: Nope! This isn't to satisfy any credits for college, just my thirst for knowledge and experience.
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: a jr programmer does, that is the comparison I was making, intern vs jr programmer
<shevy> agent_white I see
<shinobi_one> agent_white: You don't want an internship then as RubyPanter suggested you want a jr dev position.
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther, wow I should use autocorrect ***
<shinobi_one> Errr tab-completion.
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Huh? Are you saying non-bachelors degree or with bachelors degree?
* RubyPanther pants at shinobi_one
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<shevy> hey
<agent_white> shinobi_one: That's what makes me iffy, is being at the 'caliber' of a Jr. Dev?
<shevy> don't throw your pants at other people man
<RubyPanther> nobody cares about a degree in programming, that is the difference between being a software expert and being an English expert
<shinobi_one> agent_white: Some title is better than no title. If you're good enough and they like you, you'l hopefully move up.
<mikhailvs> RubyPanther, lets see some projects
<centrx> agent_white, There are a lot of ignorant, incompetent people getting Jr Dev positions who do not have such scruples.
<shevy> well a title helps in salary negotiations
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<shevy> "Hi, I am Dr. Bob, I am going to rip this shit out."
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<RubyPanther> agent_white: a jr developer is expected to be able to operate the source repository, read manuals, learn quickly, and only touch the files they were instructed to touch
<shevy> "We just waited for you! Here take the million dollars paycheck and continue please!"
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Are you kidding me? That might be true in more web-development areas but in Software Engineering the odds of you getting a job without a bachelors degree is very low compared to someone who has it, unless you actually somehow understand algorithms, data structures, and all that goodness in which case you're a minority.
<shevy> agent_white learn on-site at your internship, that is what I did :)
<shevy> I had to read boring postgresql manuals
<RubyPanther> Software "Engineering" is not development, it is a type of working project manager
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<havenwood> Nice to get paid to learn.
<havenwood> Pay me!
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<Sawbones> Anyone have resources on how to perform rails 4 file uploading?
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Software Engineering is not development?... I think you're confused.
<shinobi_one> Sawbones: try #rubyonrails
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: See, you conflate not having a degree with not knowing algorithms. So my hint is, don't make so many assumptions; you make assumptions that if true would make me wrong, but if I didn't make that assumption, then what I literally said remains literally true
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<agent_white> RubyPanther: So it sounds like it would be very minor refactoring? If that?
<RubyPanther> An engineer is generally going to so pedantic they would not make that mistake
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: What? I said if you somehow know algorithms/datastructures/all that goodness yet you do NOT have a degree, you are in the minority.
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Yes, if you are able to be a self-taught engineer you are in the minority! That is not news. ;)
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: So your last statement is not true then.
<RubyPanther> Another hint: Sr. Software Developer is not a synonym for Software Engineer
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<havenwood> Señor Software Developer
<agent_white> shevy: Hahah that sounds like a plan! It would be nice to get actual feedback from 'real devs', instead of just puttering on my own.
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: You're using the term wayyyy too specifically. Now days it's not used so much as you're describing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering read the "The term has been used less formally:" Section.
<RubyPanther> A developer knows how to get from point A to point B. A Sr Developer draws on lots of experience, avoids the pitfalls, and gets things done. An engineer also can choose the correct point A and point B for a complex use case.
<RubyPanhter> Yes
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<RubyPanther> Any term has been used "less formally" to mean... anything
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<shinobi_one> It's basically anyone who engineers software, which many many developers do, no?
<talntid> shinobi_one: RubyPanther is an expert in all things. he is right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_(male_deity)
<RubyPanhter> no
<havenwood> A junior developer doesn't know how to code. A senior developer knows how to code better than a junior developer. :P
<shinobi_one> havenwood: so not true ;)
<shevy> you guys are getting very philosophical
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<shinobi_one> in call cases
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<talntid> so what do you call a programmer who is 65 years old, but just started programming 6 months ago?
<talntid> senior developer!
<RubyPanther> No, most developers repeat past point A's and point B's based on their experience with them. An engineer doesn't need to have seen it before, because they can calculate the moving parts and understand how theory applies to real materials
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<havenwood> shinobi_one: You think a senior developer doesn't know how to code too? :P
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther. You have a way too precise definition I guess compared to what I've seen in the real world, so we'll just butt heads on this forever ;p
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<RubyPanhter> I've never actually had a job
<RubyPanther> Note that the software engineer doesn't even need to write code. They can, they probably do, but they need to understand actual engineering principles, and how to model algorithms in arbitrary contexts based on use cases
<RubyPanhter> in software
<itadder> any good example of ruby code for birthday pardox
<talntid> I believe RubyPanther just lives in a dream world
<shinobi_one> havenwood: I think not all senior developers code better than junior developers.
<talntid> :)
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<havenwood> shinobi_one: good point
<itadder> so some software engineer do not right code?
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<mrbub> hey faggots
<shevy> hey mrbub
<centrx> itadder, RubyPanther is partially insane
<shevy> centrx partially? and what is his other part?
<RubyPanther> it is like comparing a master carpenter (Sr. Developer) to an architect or structural engineer. They are different jobs.
<itadder> oh
<centrx> itadder, "Software Engineer" is the standard job title for someone who "programs".
<itadder> any ruby code for the birthday pardox
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<itadder> just want to see how it works
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: In general, from what I've seen, a software engineer who does not code (or do so much) is generally more of a Project manager type. A software engineer who designs, analyzes, and programs can still be considered a software developer. A software developer who does such can be considered a software engineer.
<RubyPanther> shevy: why does "partially insane" have to map to a sane part and insane part? Maybe it means all the parts are partially sane.
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<trent> sup u guys
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<shevy> RubyPanther well he said only partially insane, he did not imply that the other half is sane :)
<matti> sheevyyy
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<hmbl9r> or that there is an other half to speak of
<matti> Uou little bugger
<matti> ::)
<shevy> maaaaaatti
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Right, on a small enough team, like the teams most Rubyists work in, there will not be an actual engineer or architect, a Sr Developer or "team lead" will put on the Architect hat and give it a go. And it is usually good enough for projects of that size.
<shevy> are you on lunch again
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<matti> No
<matti> On a plane back to the uj
<matti> UK
<itadder> so most rubyist do not have to deal with coporate red tape or insane deadlines
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Lots of startups don't have "project managers", they are all engineering the product, all putting in the same amount of design and analysis.
<itadder> and budget cuts
<matti> :)
<itadder> is that it RubyPanther
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<itadder> I want to work for a startup that has little redtape and no insane deadlines
<itadder> and pair programing
<RubyPanther> for example, compare Tenderlove's convention talks to anybody else's. Tenderlove would likely be a competent engineer.
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<matti> Ok, take off... ::)
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<itadder> okay back to wowrkf ro me
<agent_white> matti: I'm concerned about your two-sets of eyes.
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: The small company I work for doesn't hire "code monkeys". If you can't architect, engineer, and code you're hosed.
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Meaning you have no architects
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I've seen that one. It's good
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Meaning we are all architects... what are you on about?
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<RubyPanther> It is the correct way for small teams IMO. Flat structure, generalists, able to architect small systems
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: We have no specialized areas of architecting if that's what you mean.
<RubyPanther> But it does not mean any of those people would produce a good design for a system of arbitrary complexity
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Everything is relative to the persons competency.
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<shinobi_one> person's*
<RubyPanther> Those sorts of teams, the company has the specialty instead of the employeers, so the problem domain is bounded
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Eh, you generalize too much for me. If you had any idea of all the hats I wear at work none of what you just said would make sense.
<RubyPanther> Look at something like rails 1.1 compared to rails 4. Look at all the architecture changes along the way. That is how Sr Developers do it. THey whip out some working code, and then change the architecture when they hit a wall. They don't plan for the walls, there is even a culture that is anti-engineering. "Good enough"
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: That culture doesn't scale into large companies. It works great for smaller companies.
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: generalizing is required because I don't have specific knowledge of your workplace. You mean I don't overstate what I know by making it specific where I don't have specific information?
<itadder> gvim is not bad in windows
<itadder> beats notepad
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I mean you seem to generalize in such a way that "everything is true for this" when in reality it's not.
<havenwood> "beats notepad" is a sad praise
<itadder> It much better workflow then notepad gvim is not bad...
<shinobi_one> notpad++
<shinobi_one> notepad++*
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> notpad!
<itadder> sublime text is great, but VIM is not bad iin windows
<RubyPanther> Exactly, small companies don't need engineers, it would be a waste of money for most of them. IMO small companies should hire engineering consultants for a few weeks before even telling their devs about a project though.
<havenwood> notepad +=
<shevy> notepad--
<RubyPanther> emacs runs fine in `doze
<itadder> yea RubyPanther and just make things more complex then they need to
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<shevy> notepad++ is quite ok on windows
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: IMO successful small companies have mostly engineers.
<itadder> oh hmm
<RubyPanther> itadder: That is a sucky engineer for sure!
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<itadder> well a small comapny could not afford a good one
<RubyPanther> If they're doing their job, the amount of complexity will be tailored to the use case
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I think you're just hyping up the level of engineering too much. Most software engineers don't sit in a room on a white board every day trying to "architect" everything.
<itadder> do small company do test driven development
<redlines> What's the preferred gem for interacting with a MySQL database?
<RubyPanther> itadder: they can for a couple months
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<RubyPanther> redlines: any ORM
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<havenwood> redlines: Sequel
<hmbl9r> redlines, mysql or mysql2
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<itadder> I would love to have a huge mindmap thinking of ideas
* shinobi_one googles "any ORM"
<shinobi_one> :P
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<itadder> facebook started small
<redlines> thanks for the tips
<itadder> same with twitter
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<shinobi_one> itadder: most tech companies started small, no?
<itadder> yea they do
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<RubyPanther> itadder: if you saw the legacy databases I work with, you might understand why I think these companies would have saved YEARS of developer pay by hiring an engineering consultant for 2 months at the start of their project before their devs even knew about it
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Ha my company has that exact problem. They had 3 really good software developers to start with. Guess what those people weren't great at? Database design..
<havenwood> Technical debt avoidance algorithm.
<RubyPanther> Exactly, database design can't be done by experience alone, or the sort of common sense that developers acquire
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Luckily at least basic database design/analysis is taught at university level computer science education :)
<RubyPanther> it requires either a db expert, who will usually be loaded with lots of silly opinions, or an engineer who can understand the implications of the db design on the algorithms that will be needed
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<itadder> RubyPanther: oh that a great point
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: yeah, one class though
<itadder> many places do not plan out stuff
<itadder> well
<itadder> planing is very important
<RubyPanther> Sr Developers are typically actually _anti_planning_
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: One class is better than no knowledge at all IMO.
<itadder> RubyPanther: and why
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Where do you get your information from? I must know :P
<RubyPanther> bring up planning in a meeting, you'll likely get laughed at for going over the waterfall by people who don't even know what the waterfall pattern was
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<itadder> some other deparment will say NO to you
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<itadder> for planing
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<itadder> but why then do so much company hire project managers
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<itadder> what is the role of a project manager if not plan
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<RubyPanther> or that the waterfall they laugh at never existed, and was a book that was updated by the same author to later to include ongoing changes since those are a reality ;)
<shinobi_one> itadder: because lots of mid-sized to large companies need them.
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<havenwood> I'm not sure that a higher percentage of CS grads can code than the general public. :P
<itadder> why they serve what purpose
<itadder> they don't even know tech or how to code
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<shinobi_one> havenwood: I am.
<RubyPanther> The job of a project manager is usually to herd cats, not make plans
<havenwood> shinobi_one: Hmm. What percentage do you think it is about? See much difference based on where the degree is from?
<itadder> got to go bbl
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<RubyPanther> An engineer is a type of project manager, usually an equal peer to the person wearing the "project manager" hat
<itadder> herd cats people are not cats
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<itadder> people have brains and can think for themselfs
<RubyPanther> programmers are
<itadder> I hate group think
<havenwood> itadder: some are, humanimals
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<RubyPanther> cats have brains and think for themselves
<shinobi_one> itadder: Often types a project manager or project lead was a Software Engineer or Developer who moved up the ranks into a position of more management/leading/authority. Some times it's just someone who got a Masters degree (but no bachelors degree in comp sci) and knows almost nothing about programming and only how to lead projects/manage.
<havenwood> yes, cats make good pair programming partners
<shinobi_one> Often times*
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I think most companies would disagree with how you relate engineers to project managers.
<havenwood> shinobi_one: Would you hire a software engineer without a BS?
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: shouldn't you narrow that to "most small companies?"
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<shinobi_one> havenwood: of course
<RubyPanther> by numbers, there are more small software companies, so in that sense it would be true
<shinobi_one> havenwood: i am a software engineer with a BA
<havenwood> shinobi_one: haha
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<shevy> \o/
<havenwood> shinobi_one: I'm a software engineer with a JD
<shinobi_one> havenwood: but really I would hire anyone capable of doing a job well.
<RubyPanther> I think IBM would have very nearly the same understanding of "engineer" as I do
<shevy> what is JD?
<havenwood> shevy: Juris Doctor
<shevy> hmmmm
<havenwood> shevy: or doctorate of jurisprudence
<shevy> isn't that a bit unusual for an engineer
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: and no I would not limit that to small companies. It happens at Google and Amazon, and large companies all of the time.
<havenwood> shevy: a bit yeah, switched fields
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<havenwood> shevy: actually though engineering/law overlap is surprisingly common
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: You may have mistaken your comments, "it happens" means what happens? Companies disagree with me at Google? What?
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<shevy> cool havenwood
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<havenwood> shevy: i'm much happier here \o/
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Errr, I mean how you relate the two.
<shevy> hehe
<RubyPanther> It goes both ways, lots of undergrad engineers become lawyers, and lots of law grads/undergrads become engineers
<havenwood> shevy: i don't daydream about getting hit by a car on the way to work anymore
<shinobi_one> havenwood: lol that's good <3
<apeiros> havenwood: lol, ouch
<apeiros> that's harsh
<RubyPanther> They are closely related fields in the sense of what they do; manage arbitrary complex systems to produce arbitrary results
<RubyPanther> arbitrarily
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: You must love statistics.
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<shinobi_one> and correlations
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<RubyPanther> I hate statistics, and I don't claim to be an engineer. I claim to be a software developer who knows what the person wearing the engineering hat does.
<RubyPanther> a rare thing, for sure
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Well I calim to be a software engineer, because I am one. ;)
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<RubyPanther> I care about what engineering is because if I attempt to apply engineering principles it improves my code
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* apeiros is a code plow
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: like you already said, you're a dev who also wears a software engineering hat. I do that to. But it doesn't make either of us engineers.
<RubyPanther> too
<shevy> oh man, now it is back again as to who is wearing the pink hat
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: No, I am a software developer who also engineers. Although I do system/server administration and other things I would not consider myself a System Administrator, though.
<RubyPanther> Right, a software developer who also engineers is not an engineer.
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I am a Software Engineer who does engineering and development. I am a Software Developer who also does engineering and development.
<RubyPanther> A roofer who also does some carpentry is not a carpenter, but he may be the "carpenter" remodeling your garage.
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: If I am not a Software Engineer, then how come everybody always wants to hire me as one? :(
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I think many companies who think of software engineers as specific as you do sometimes call them Software Architects.
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: in this field you can have any title you want. My first job with the title Software Engineer, my actual job was more like "Jr Programmer for a company too cheap to hire a Sr. Programmer"
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<RubyPanther> My friend was the Software Jedi at one job, and Master of the Universe at the next
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I bet that looks awesome on a resume.
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<RubyPanther> You can write it any way you want on the resume
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Until the company calls your reference to find out your'e a liar?
<RubyPanther> "No, his title wasn't Sr. Developer, it was Software Jedi" "Oh, what a LIAR" that is not how that conversation goes
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<RubyPanther> It actually goes, "Yes, he was a Sr. Software Developer... his official title was Software Jedi" "Oh, hehe, that's just what we need"
<shevy> software jedi
<shevy> must have been using java
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: My point was you said "you can write it any way you want on the resume". That doesn't fly if you're flat out lying does it?
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<RubyPanther> It isn't "flat out lying" unless you're actually flat-out-lying.
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<RubyPanther> The words in the title is not what the position is, the duties and responsibilities are what the position is
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Once again, my point wasn't that your friend actually had those titles or not. I was skeptical about what you're saying about "you can write it any way you want on the resume". Because that is certainly not true.
<RubyPanther> People do in fact use silly job titles, and then use normal ones on their resume
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<RubyPanther> and no, it is not considered "lying" unless there is some deception perceived. THat is just silly.
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Because using a silly one on their resume seems silly, doesn't it?
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<RubyPanther> Because job titles are silly, and resumes are serious.
<shinobi_one> I for one am not going to tell Google after being contacted by a recruiter that I am a "Software Jedi", but hey to each their own.
<RubyPanther> You also wait until after they agree to hire you as a "Software Developer" before you ask, "can my job title be `Flying Code Monkey?`"
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<RubyPanther> And then if they say yes, you still probably write the name of the position as it was listed, not the title you were given
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<itadder> oh
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Actually they would hire me as Software Engineer ;)
<itadder> what about CTO RubyPanther
<itadder> the CTO has a lot of say or CIO in what development goes
<RubyPanther> maybe, maybe not
<itadder> and in my current job accounting dicatates a lot
<itadder> they say you can hire so and so consultant only for 6 months
<RubyPanther> If the CTO is related to the CEO, they probably don't even get to talk to the dev team directly, and they give their suggestions to the project manager at their weekly meeting ;)
<itadder> do people hire JR ruby programers and what task would a JR ruby person do
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: My CTO and COO are both CEOs, and they get to talk to the dev team every day ;)
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<itadder> the project managers never understand tech
<itadder> bah
<itadder> and has insane deadlines
<banister> shinobi_one there's also some people who refer to themselves as "sales engineers"
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<itadder> or office engineers
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<failshell> is there a gem that can take a JSON and insert that into a MySQL table?
<shinobi_one> banister: some people are sales engineers ;)
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: translation: you don't have a CEO, CTO, or COO, you have a bunch of Senior VPs who run the company by committee and used silly corporate titles ;)
<banister> shinobi_one which makes the definition of 'engineer' so vague that's it's practically meaningless ;)
<banister> shinobi_one i prefer to think they're just misusing/abusing the term to puff themselves up with a fancy title
<RubyPanther> at tripwire the sales engineers made more than the dev engineers, got a share of the sales team bonuses, and got to go on the sales team holidays
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Uhh no, once again you're wrong. There are two owners of this company and NO committee. One is the CTO and the other is the COO and both are CEOs.
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: I was close! Two Owners, no VPs, no CEO, no COO, no CTO
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Wrong again.
<RubyPanther> An owner often calls themselves CEO, but they're not one. It has a different meaning.
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: No, these two people have the responibilities of a COO, a CTO, and CEO.
<shinobi_one> or a CTO*
<RubyPanther> An owner is not a "company officer," they're above that. You're not your own officer, that is silly. But people use silly titles, it is true.
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<shevy> I am the King of the World.
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: You seem to not know much about how this stuff works in reality for some companies.
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<RubyPanther> If a company is doing a search for a CEO, and they get a resume from a person who owned their own business and called themselves CEO, unless their company is a household name they probably don't even get considered
<shinobi_one> a CTO has certain responisbilities that are fulfilled. An owner can do those responisibilities if they are capable of doing so.
<centrx> A captain is still an officer
<centrx> A CEO is an officer appointed by the board
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: This is a global business with partnerships and products sold across the world.
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<banister> RubyPanther shinobi_one can u guys pls take this convo to another channel or something, or to PM, it's pretty boring at this point
<RubyPanther> Right, a CEO is an officer appointed by a board in a corporation. An owner is not one. But will often use those titles to look like a modern company.
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<shinobi_one> A CEO does not HAVE to be appointed or report to a board of directors. You guys are way to specific about titles.
<RubyPanther> It doesn't matter if your customers are and products are local or disparate, that doesn't tell you what an "officer" is
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<shinobi_one> Meh, I'm done. We're wasting time here, although I'm having fun debating. At least you can debate without flipping over a table <3
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<RubyPanther> There is real legal meaning to being an Officer that doesn't apply to privately held businesses. VP of Technology is not a synonym for CTO
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<shevy> centrx, is RubyPanther really half insane?
<Karu> ╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
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<RubyPanther> wait, half insane, or partially insane?
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<shevy> perhaps shinobi_one is the other half
<shinobi_one> :O
<RubyPanther> who is qualified to take such a precise measurement?
<shevy> RubyPanther I assumed it was half!
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<shevy> we used to have twins in school, one of them once said "Damn, I only slept half yesterday", and a friend remarked "And what did your other half do during that time?"
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: You hit the nail on the head though, real legal meaning _that_does_not_ apply to privately held business. :P
<RubyPanther> I'm a "Company Officer" on paper, but it isn't a corporation so I'm not actually one. It does give me cover to grab a hat and put it on if the owner is on vacation, though.
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Right, but that was my point all along: people choose silly titles and they're not lying, those are just silly titles!
<centrx> shevy, Further studies need to be done to determine the proportion and distribution of the insanity.
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<RubyPanther> The ones that end in -O are the ones that have real meaning, but only within their correct domain; corps
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Yes, and my point was in our case these are not silly titles. If you do the responsibilities, you deserve the title. What's silly is calling subjective things silly ;p
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<RubyPanther> No, if a bridge is broken and I'm the person who is there fixing it, and I fix it successfully, I am not now a "Structural Engineer," even though I did the job of one in some cases
<shevy> you should have deserved that title RubyPanther
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<shevy> Sr. RubyPanther-fixing-a-bridge title
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: It doesn't work in all cases of course.
<shevy> deserves a badge as well
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: If you engineered the bridge yourself and built it right. Hell, I'd call you a structural engineer, and you could probably land a job as one ;)
<RubyPanther> engineer has real meaning. Putting "software" in front of it is a fun thing for non-engineers to do, but they're not really engineers. Real Software Engineers are doing the exact same job as a mechanical or structural engineer, but the machine is in software
<RubyPanther> That is NOT what most devs who wear the design hat are actually doing.
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<RubyPanther> Any more than being the "engineer" who designed a doghouse was actually doing engineering when they designed it
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Yep most devs do not. Most devs are "cubicle code monkeys". Glad I'm not one :) no offense to anyone it's just not my cup of tea.
<centrx> I want to be a Senior Wizard
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<RubyPanther> centrx: Just ask, most companies say yes if they are primarily tech companies
<centrx> I thought you were my supervisor
<RubyPanther> well, assuming you have a senior position
<shinobi_one> lol
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<apeiros> my software engineers itself. when the day is over, there is suddenly code which for some reason unbeknownst to me works. and then I go home happy, not knowing what happened.
<shinobi_one> apeiros: you and half the software development community ;)
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<centrx> Most of my code is written by suckers on IRC
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<shinobi_one> centrx: lmao
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<shinobi_one> that is probably so true for many ror programmers
<shinobi_one> that are in the irc i should say*
<apeiros> it's hard to find actual software developers and not just code monkeys :(
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<shinobi_one> apeiros: you mean software engineers
* shinobi_one trollface
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<banister> shinobi_one do you have a github account?
<shinobi_one> banister: i do why do you ask?
<apeiros> I mean binary logic machine oriented authors
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<shinobi_one> apeiros: haha, nice.
<itadder> RubyPanther: as a JR ruby developer what would I be doing my first few weeks on the job
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<RubyPanther> itadder: whatever you are told
<itadder> what assigments
<shinobi_one> itadder: as a jr developer you are the guy they pass crappy things to do that no one else wants to do
<itadder> would it be testing code out or working on small projects
<banister> shinobi_one just curiuos
<itadder> shinobi_one: oh
<centrx> itadder, But for you it might be advanced work
<itadder> so what ever work they do not want to do they make me do...
<centrx> itadder, So you learn it and improve
<apeiros> itadder: writing tests and documentation can be useful. lets you learn about the existing systems.
<itadder> centrx: and what are typical deadlines
<shinobi_one> banister: i don't have much there, i mostly use bitbucket for my repos as i find i don't need them to be public
<RubyPanther> depending on the complexity of the project, you might only be reading code and attending meetings. You might also be writing view helpers. You might be attempting to resolve lower priority open issues.
<itadder> oh so it would be usefull stuff even if others do not wnat to do it..
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<RubyPanther> No, I never said what it would be. I gave examples of what it might be.
<apeiros> if they let you do stuff that is not useful, then they're idiots IMO :)
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<shinobi_one> apeiros: writing tests and documentation is useful because it gets you into the habbit of doing it, which more people need to do
<itadder> would I be able to stay late or work from home on the weekend
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<itadder> do most places offer VPN on demand
<RubyPanther> there is a wide range from "staying out of the way and memorizing procedures," to doing useful work
<shinobi_one> itadder: i don't think we can answer these questions, it depends on the organization
<itadder> oh
<itadder> that true
<RubyPanther> most places offer a VPN so you can work extra hours from home, but that is not to be confused with "working from home."
<itadder> it sound like a lot of learning...
<banister> shinobi_one not very open-sourcey then? :)
<itadder> RubyPanther: oh
<shinobi_one> itadder: you might find at one all you do is write and run tests, you might find at others you're basically a noobie software developer doing the same stuff as the other ones just with a lesser title/pay, it really depends
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<centrx> itadder, As a junior developer starting off, you would most likely be wanted in the office normal hours to start.
<itadder> oh
<shinobi_one> banister: honestly i just don't have time to do a lot of open-sourcey stuff, a lot of what i want to do in my free time though tends to be more geared towards making money heh
<RubyPanther> If you want to know what "working from home" looks like, look around the room, most of us are doing it right this minute
<centrx> RubyPanther works from home in a padded room
<itadder> do they provide you with your pc or laptop setup like can you choose at most places what editor and shell you like...
<banister> shinobi_one open-source ultimately makes you money, as you get offered kick-ass jobs if you write a successful OSS project
<centrx> He calls it, "the Home"
<shinobi_one> centrx: luls
<RubyPanther> centrx: If only they made padded screens
<centrx> Thank you everyone! clap clap clap
<itadder> RubyPanther: that what I would like to do is work from home
<itadder> I have adhd I am very hyperactive
<RubyPanther> then I could get rid of the low res projection monitor
<itadder> and get distracted so working from home would be less distractfull
<shinobi_one> banister: yes i know, but for whatever reason all of these ideas in my head for projects aren't very good ones for open-source projects. they're more like "i'm about to create a startup and run with this idea"
<itadder> Do you use two monitors at home, what your desk setup.. I think my curent desk setup at home is making me unproductive
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<banister> shinobi_one fairynuff
<RubyPanther> itadder: switch to C http://xkcd.com/303/
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<RubyPanther> itadder: one monitor, 17 xterms
<shinobi_one> banister: also, i have some kickass opportunities and companies knocking at my door already, but i'm happy with where i'm at right now :)
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<itadder> how big is your monitor you have a screenshot or desktop photo shot
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<itadder> you can run 17 xterms tmux session on a 13 inch screen
<shinobi_one> itadder: i have one 23" monitor, and one 22" monitor, although i don't typically work from home
<RubyPanther> yeah, 20-something
<itadder> does it make you productive what makes you most productive RubyPanther shinobi_one
<banister> shinobi_one fair enough, but i got offers at facebook and soundcloud on the basis of one OSS project
<shinobi_one> itadder: what makes me most productive is being interested in what i'm working on.
<RubyPanther> itadder: I had the same number of xterms on a CRT screen, but less per virtual desktop
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<itadder> what tips to trick should I have in my toolbelt to be more productive
<shinobi_one> banister: i hear ya, open-source is great stuff and a great way to show off your talent for almost free
<itadder> I wish the mavericks virtual desktop remebered all the windows placements
<itadder> after a reboot, although I hardly reboot
<RubyPanther> itadder: what makes me productive is planning before I code, usually with pen and paper. Oh, and using CLI tools
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<Karu> wish there was a way to speed my machine up
<itadder> so you automate a lot with CLI
<shinobi_one> Karu: there is, hardware
<itadder> SSD harddrive Karu
<havenwood> Karu: speed it up for doing what?
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<itadder> I have a 19 inch screen at home and my macbook pro 13 inch
<Karu> heh. SSD is the next thing I'm looking at. But mostly everything. This machines is dragging ever since Mavericks
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<shinobi_one> banister: this all reminds me i need to respond back to google, it's been like a month now >:O
<itadder> I would like to get a 23 inch screen for my mac
<RubyPanther> no, I'm saying using sed on a project directory is faster than replace in an IDE
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<shinobi_one> itadder: i work just fine on my 13" macbook pro
<itadder> what your folder structure
<Karu> RM takes ages to start and ages to even start invoking my test folder
<itadder> shinobi_one: oh I also have 13 inch, is your retina or none retina
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<shinobi_one> itadder: this one is retina, but a few months ago non-retina
<banister> shinobi_one i think it's more fun to work for a small startup than a big company actually, and if the startup is in NYC or sf you'll still get a competitive salary IME
<itadder> mavericks virtual desktop is a bit messy
<itadder> I liked snow leapord spaces better for certaint hings
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<itadder> any good tool to mange the virtual desktop on a mac 13 inch
<RubyPanther> Karu: Uncle Bob talks about architecture, and testing, and how to speed up your tests by testing the right things: http://confreaks.com/videos/759-rubymidwest2011-keynote-architecture-the-lost-years
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<banister> shinobi_one though i probably wouldn't turn down google ;)
<itadder> I spend to much time tryinti to figure out where omnifocus or mail.app or terminal or vim or sublime text is or chrome
<shinobi_one> banister: yeah i actually prefer the small company environment, i mean, if google offered me a software engineering position i'd probably take it, but yeah :P
<shinobi_one> banister: ha exactly
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<itadder> I want to work for small start up
<havenwood> i'm pretty happy on my 15" screen, being 3840 x 2400 makes it useable
<itadder> shinobi_one: currently I am working in a hedgefund
<havenwood> moar pixels!
<RubyPanther> speeding up your computer to speed up your tests is game you lose over and over as your tests grow constantly but your computer only upgrades periodically
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<shinobi_one> itadder: i don't use virtual desktop on my mbp
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<itadder> oh you have it turned off
<banister> havenwood awesome
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<itadder> do you have a screenshot of your currenet setup
<itadder> current
<banister> havenwood how does a normal screen look to you now? :)
<shinobi_one> my current set up is a 13" mbp sometimes connected to a 23" ips monitor
<havenwood> banister: impressionist art
<banister> havenwood haha
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<banister> havenwood retina ruins everything else for you i've heard :)
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<havenwood> banister: indeed... so true.
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<shinobi_one> banister: eh, it doesn't really for me, maybe if i were a photoshopper or video-editor i could see that
<Karu> RubyPanther: No no no, it's not that the tests take that long to run, it's that they take ages to even *begin* running.
<RubyPanther> Karu: Right, he addresses why that is and how to avoid it.
<Karu> With one single test in my folder?
<RubyPanther> How can you know it isn't the right advice if you don't watch it?
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<banister> shinobi_one you applied for google or they head hunted you?
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<zorak> using .to_sym to make a string to a symbol, what happen if the string has spaces?
<Karu> because I have a sneaking suspicion that this is less that i've mishandled the one test in my entire project and more that my computer is in bad shape
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<zorak> "hello world".to_sym
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<itadder> see this is my mess http://snag.gy/mHrWU.jpg
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<shinobi_one> i wish RubyMidwest would come to minneapolis
<havenwood> zorak: :"not a problem"
<shinobi_one> banister: they've been head hunting me for a while now
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<havenwood> zorak: Try it in Pry/irb.
<banister> shinobi_one interesting, how did they hear of you?
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<zorak> but symbols dont have to be without spaces in it?
<itadder> shinobi_one: is that normal or messy desktop
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<havenwood> linkedin? don't go there or the vultures will swarm!
<slash_nick> RubyPanther: i'm way late, but re: your definition of engineer... As someone who holds a degree in electrical engineering, i think most people in these channels have a very loose definition
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<shinobi_one> banister: honestly i'm not quite sure, i was originally contacted on linked in, and then later contacted another time by some recruiter who "specializes in potential recruits who either know someone who works for google, or for whatever reason google wants to talk to more than an average recruit", it actually confused me
<havenwood> zorak: Symbols can have spaces.
<RubyPanther> slash_nick: I would phrase it as, they don't know any definition, but have a loose concept based on how it is used within small teams that don't have the specialty at all
<shinobi_one> banister: A. I know nobody works at Google. B. No idea how I got flagged as some special person or whatever.
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<shinobi_one> nobody who works*
<havenwood> zorak: Though if you want to have spaces with the Symbol literal, you need to use quotes.
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<itadder> should I tell my employeer that I have adhd or would that be bad idea
<itadder> if I tell hey I can code ruby but I suffer from adhd
<slash_nick> RubyPanther: an engineer has a four year degree from an accredited engineering program; has passed the fundamentals of engineering exam; has worked four years under a professional engineer, doing actual engineering (performing calculations, etc); and pass the PE (principles and practices of engineering exam)
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<slash_nick> All of the above ^
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<banister> itadder just get a ritalin prescription :)
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<slash_nick> RubyPanther: they're also held to a code of ethics that most folks around here won't have heard of
<RubyPanther> slash_nick: even without the critical step of being accredited, which software people discount, IMO they still should be able to understand the calculations and practices parts
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<itadder> banister: yea I take adderal
<zorak> :"hello world" can be a symbol?
<zorak> with the quotmarks
<itadder> but I notice that with adderal my work suffer a bit
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: no dear god you brought up the engineering thing again :P
<centrx> itadder, Drop the drugs and do heavy exercise -> better than amphetamines
<itadder> I an focus but not creative
<centrx> zorak, Yes, exactly
<slash_nick> "Hold paramount the safety of the public" --- any of you ever think about that at work? some, i'd imagine
<RubyPanther> As in, doing the calculations in advance, not just doing some work and then measuring how long it took.
<itadder> centrx: oh, so I should keep goign to the GYM
<slash_nick> RubyPanther: right
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: considering we work with sensitive data, yes ;)
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<zorak> wwhats about when is a user generated stantmen i took from get
<slash_nick> RubyPanther: the ability to say "this is what you need, any less is not enough... any more is going to waste your money"
<shinobi_one> zorak: i don't understand your last questino
<shinobi_one> question*
<RubyPanther> everybody works with sensitive data, the worst security I see is in CC handling
<itadder> what if I don't get my work done on time
<RubyPanther> slash_nick: Yes, _exactly_that_
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: not everybody works with sensitive customer data..
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<itadder> I would get fired after a month>??
<itadder> I useally hyperfocus for hours if I want to get work done, but most places are 9 to 5 and close shop for the day
<shinobi_one> itadder: sometimes in this field you have to get your work done no matter what, sometimes you can't extend the deadline
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<banister> itadder get a remote job then
<itadder> it not like I can stay late and work form my cube
<zorak> shinobi_one: when i as the user to make a variable with gets
<zorak> and the user dont use quotmarks
<itadder> I don't mind staying late a couple of days and just resting say on sunday
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<zorak> just copy wharever he want
<shinobi_one> zorak: i don't believe i can help you, sorry
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<shinobi_one> itadder: i usually work 9 hours or so a day, and *usually* do not have to work on the weekends
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: If you can't extend the deadline, it means you didn't learn anything from Scotty on Star Trek
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: lol
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<itadder> shinobi_one: how do you manage to stay on task, you work from home
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<itadder> RubyPanther: LOL
<RubyPanther> or, you got stuck in one of those agile puppy mills that use data driven predictions :/
<shinobi_one> itadder: usually i do not work from home
<itadder> shinobi_one: do you work in a cube or in your own office or a open office
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: or some deadlines are actual deadlines.
<shinobi_one> itadder: right now i'm sitting in an office, i have a cube though
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<itadder> I hate microsoft projects
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: for values of "actual" that mean arbitrary, yes
<itadder> and it predections of time
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: you crack me up xD
<itadder> shinobi_one: and you are allowed to irssi,
<itadder> what resterctio do you have with your current job and your current pc
<shinobi_one> itadder: i'm not using irssi, but yes i am allowed to be on irc
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<zorak> what happen when i use .to_i to a non-numerical string?
<shinobi_one> itadder: no restrictions
<shinobi_one> zorak: try it!
<itadder> oh, I use limechat
<zorak> irb(main):012:0> q.to_i
<zorak> => 0
<zorak> irb(main):013:0> q
<zorak> => "q"
<zorak> this is what i get
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* platzhirsch roars...
<slash_nick> RubyPanther: it bothers me when people claim the title "engineer" when they're far from... It's like a masseusse calling herself "doctor"
<itadder> so what are some good tips for a jr ruby developer to know for his first days at work ???
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<shinobi_one> zorak: looks to me like it outputs a 0 doesn't it?
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<platzhirsch> slash_nick: like Software Engineer?
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick: where are you from?
<slash_nick> developer,coder, programmer, architect, senior developer, whatever... exactlly platzhirsch.
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<slash_nick> shinobi_one: the US
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<RubyPanther> slash_nick: or somebody who gives good foot rubs calling herself a masseuse!
<zorak> in a first momet was like convert the variable q in a 0
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: wait you're in alabama right?
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: that's right
<zorak> but when i call the variable q again dont do anithing
<RubyPanther> In Oregon massage therapists are expected to be trained and licensed
<shinobi_one> interesting
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<itadder> bbl
<platzhirsch> I like the distinction between developer/coder/hacker and software engineer
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<platzhirsch> because there are so many software engineering practices that make a real difference
<slash_nick> platzhirsch: engineering is a profession, regulated by various licensing boards.
<shinobi_one> zorak: that's because q = "q", q.to_i does not CHANGE the value of q, it outputs the .to_i method called on q
<zorak> irb(main):015:0> q = q.to_i
<zorak> => 0
<zorak> irb(main):016:0> q
<zorak> => 0
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<slash_nick> if you have no license, you are no engineer.
<platzhirsch> First and foremost it's just a word, that's the semantic you give
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<slash_nick> if you have not passed the bar, you are not a lawyer.
<slash_nick> platzhirsch: it's not me... it's long-been-so
<centrx> That is how the powers that be want it. It does not change the meaning
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: software engineers get licenses?
<csmrfx> most are coders or developers, the end
<zorak> slash_nick: not a registrer engineer do you mean
* shinobi_one laughs
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: software engineers are a misnomer if they have no license.
<platzhirsch> Well you can get a shit load of certificates as software engineer
<cout> slash_nick: I don't think that latter part is true. the bar is only required to practice law.
<shinobi_one> csmrfx: most are, agreed.
<centrx> If you do not drive a train, you are not an engineer
<zorak> an engineer is someone who solve problems
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<platzhirsch> Then again "Software Engineer" != Engineer, so I wouldn't go so harsh on this if two words are used in conjunction
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: the real world is a misnomer if you don't live in it
<centrx> Engineer, noun: the operator of a railway locomotive
<centrx> QED
<csmrfx> I stay away from engineering, in fear of becoming narrow minded
* apeiros is an astronaut, expert and architect
<slash_nick> platzhirsch: certificates do not add up to a professional license.
<apeiros> (all unprotected titles in my country, so I can legally claim to be those)
<RubyPanther> A software engineer IS a type of engineer, or else not really one. Even though software is an unlicensed field.
<platzhirsch> I am progressive, I don't give very much about how things were done so far
<zorak> enginering is solving problems
<apeiros> software astronaut… sounds awesome. I'll put that on my business card.
<slash_nick> zorak: solve problems, create artifacts, etc... yes
<zorak> software engineer is someone who solve software probles
<RubyPanther> The test is easy: if your project was a building instead of a program, would you be an "engineer," or just the guy drawing up a design?
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<RubyPanther> An virtual machine doing a unit of work is not substantially different, to an engineer, from a physical machine doing that work
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<csmrfx> the guy frawing the design is an architect
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<csmrfx> the construction engineer oversees the production of the building - soo thats bit of a difficult analogy
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Why can't you be both?
<RubyPanther> No, when I was younger and worked for a tree service and drew up the design for a wood shed, I was not only not an architect, I was not even a drafter
<csmrfx> thats not a "project"
<platzhirsch> beer draft
<csmrfx> thats almost a "hobby"
<RubyPanther> And at the same time, "Who engineered this shed?" I did.
<shinobi_one> csmrfx: hobbies can involve projects
<csmrfx> kik
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<slash_nick> RubyPanther: :) engineering does not an engineer make :)
<shinobi_one> at this point in time it feels the definitions of a software engineer, at least in this channel, are highly subjective
<platzhirsch> Developers like to see themselves as building constructionist, laying out the architecture, etc. but software development is really like gardening
<csmrfx> I call myself an entrepreneur
<slash_nick> unless you've done it for four years under the supervision of a professional engineer and have met all the other requirements
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<csmrfx> gets you more pussy than "engineer" ;)
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<platzhirsch> sexist
<shinobi_one> csmrfx: lmao
<csmrfx> with just a few more letters!
<platzhirsch> btw. Hustler is the one title to end them all
<shevy> platzhirsch only if he would not have to lie ;)
<platzhirsch> Hustler, PhD.
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<shinobi_one> Hustler, gets you more pussy AND money than an engineer.
<shevy> lol
<RubyPanther> It is like saying the definition of a chef is subjective, just because lots of untrained cooks call themselves chefs. Same with engineers, if they're trained they might be a chef, if not, maybe only 1/100 that give themselves the title are actually chefs. The rest are talented cooks, maybe even expert cooks.
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<slash_nick> Hustler, the first strip club i visited
<csmrfx> yeah well I'm also a Reverend Of The Universal Cult Of Love with marrying rights in IL, MO and TN
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick: sounds nice
<RubyPanther> My wife's job title is Head Chef, but she isn't a chef. She's actually a Kitchen Manager.
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<slash_nick> shinobi_one: bourbon street, new orleans
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: lol funny how different situations have different situationally different outcomes
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<shinobi_one> <s>different</s>
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<csmrfx> hm, or was it Universal Being - I forget
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick: meh we don't have too many decent strip clubs around here, one or two decent gentleman's clubs as they call them though
<platzhirsch> Anyway, how is doing everyone so far? I have been absent for some days/weeks
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<RubyPanther> Compare a title like "entrepreneur." All you need to be a real one is to start a business, and make some money off it. Or even, start a business, and not have given up yet.
<itadder> or CEO
<platzhirsch> CTO
<RubyPanther> No, CEO has real meaning.
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<itadder> some CEO do a lot of work day to day and others do not
<csmrfx> oh, its Universal Life Church
<itadder> oh what about CIO
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<platzhirsch> LSD
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: CEO has real meaning to you when it's a publicly owned company :P
<slash_nick> itadder: pick-a-letter...CIO, CEO, CTO, COO, CFO...
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: F
<RubyPanther> CTO has real meaning. It means either you're a company officer (a legal title) in a corporation... or NOT one. VP of Technology is often called a "CTO" these days, but they are not actually a CTO.
<csmrfx> RubyPanther: yes, exactlt - I especially like the "make money" part!
<itadder> lol
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<itadder> what about security officer
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<RubyPanther> It has real meaning all the time, that there is no _consequence_ of using the term wrong in a private corporation means you can do it. It doesn't make it the correct term.
<RubyPanther> "private company
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I'm sorry, but you'd have to show some legal definition that says CTO has to exist in a public company ONLY.
<RubyPanther> False.
<RubyPanther> THat is a false metric.
<centrx> Fals!
<centrx> >> false
<eval-in> centrx => false (https://eval.in/115922)
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<csmrfx> I'd say you just need a real company that has actually appointed someone as CTO (possibly board)
<RubyPanther> There is no reason for the definition to have to include a negative part. It is enough that it is defined as to where it DOES apply; a corporation.
<shinobi_one> csmrfx: And the reason none of this matters is the beginning of your sentence "I'd say". You can say whatever you want. I don't mind :)
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Where is the definition?
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<csmrfx> but it's true
<csmrfx> uh, its
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Company Officer has real legal meaning, it is covered in a lot of places
<RubyPanther> You could use law books, business books, etc
<slash_nick> company officers, those are the ones whose asses are on the line right?
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: I can't find this definition of Chief Technology Officer anywhere on the internet. P
<csmrfx> CEO has extra responsibilities before law
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<csmrfx> CTO does not share those, necessarily
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<RubyPanther> Compare VP of Technology to CTO. VP can mean almost anything, though it usually means some specific things. But the meaning depends on the _job_description_ not the title. The title of Company Officer has real implications, that is why those titles exist; because they are not just a type of VP
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<csmrfx> no no no
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<shinobi_one> I have to disagree.
<csmrfx> a VP is a member of the board
<csmrfx> uh, has to be, even
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<centrx> Quod?
<csmrfx> the chiefs/officers can be just employees
<csmrfx> again, different type of responsibilities before law, too
<shinobi_one> The internet disagrees with you RubyPanther. haha
<apeiros> still at this? :D
<shinobi_one> apeiros: you brought it back up!
<shinobi_one> lol
<apeiros> what what whaaat?!?
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<shinobi_one> oh nevermind
<shinobi_one> it was slash_nick :P
<apeiros> phew
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<itadder> hahaha managers love java becuase if you can show 100 lines of codes that a lot of work done
<itadder> larry wall to funny
<itadder> now I understand why manager push java
<shinobi_one> >.>
<itadder> and java jobs can be outsourced easily
<itadder> bah
<csmrfx> well push jruby at manager
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<slash_nick> shinobi_one: say wha?
<itadder> why write 100 line of code when you could do couple of lines
<RubyPanther> That the internet agrees and disagrees with me is a fact of the Universe. Both remain true no matter what I say.
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: you were the one to bring up the engineering thing again after we finally stopped discussing it :P
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<itadder> okay I am heading home
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<slash_nick> okay, let me clarify... you can call yourself an engineer all day, doesn't mean you can practice engineering without it being a crime.
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<apeiros> itadder: every job can be easily outsourced. the crux lies in getting a better solution by outsourcing
<slash_nick> you'll just be an engineer who doesn't practice engineering
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: I'm a Software Engineer as defined by most companies standards of what they consider a Software Engineer. ;)
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<slash_nick> shinobi_one: cool, but you're not a practicing engineer. you're less than.
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: if you say so :P
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<itadder> not always a better product when outsourced just cheaper
<itadder> okay bbl
<itadder> going to train station
<csmrfx> maybe you can engineer a licence and become a licence engineer
<shinobi_one> itadder: usually not a better product, but yes
<slash_nick> but you can go to school and take the exams and practice for a while under an engineer... then you'll be a real one :)
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<RubyPanther> Everybody disagrees with me, except for the one real engineer. I'm gonna say I won. ;)
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* apeiros 's dream is to become a certified destroyer of dreams
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* apeiros hands RubyPanther, the winner, an internet. congratulations!
<RubyPanther> apeiros: I can sell you that cert for $50
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: if i wanted to waste my time i could maybe find a way to do that for software engineering
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* slash_nick high fives RubyPanther
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<RubyPanther> yay! an internet! I'm gonna keep it!
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<apeiros> RubyPanther: are you a certified destroyer of dreams certifier?
<kayloos_> Certified Useless Discussion Winner!
* RubyPanther high fives slash_nick
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick is a software engineer who practiced for 4 years under a software engineer and took exams to become a software engineer?
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: i am not a software engineer. i am a software developer, a coder. I am less than. like you :)
<RubyPanther> apeiros: I used to be a Brainbench Certified Master Programmer, if I certify myself as a uncertified certificate authority, it won't be the silliest cert I've had
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<centrx> If a mechanical engineer (PE) decides to become a software engineer, does his PE certification carry over?
<apeiros> RubyPanther: you also have an MCSE?
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: lol nah bro, I'm a Software Engineer xD
<slash_nick> if a company wants to call me a software engineer, i'll ask for a more meaningful title.
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<apeiros> (since you say you had sillier certs…)
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<RubyPanther> apeiros: I considered it, but I found out I'm allergic to MS
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<apeiros> ok, so there's a lower bound to silliness :D
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<slash_nick> centrx: yeah it carries across disciplines but it's unethical to practice in a discipline you don't have knowledge of.. make sense?
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<shinobi_one> just follow these 5 easy steps! http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Software-Engineer
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<shinobi_one> lol
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<RubyPanther> When they sent me an evaluation copy of Win 2000 Server, i checked ebay and it was only going for $500 so I used it as a coaster instead. It lasted over 5 years, I'm gonna say MS makes a very stable coffee platform.
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick if Google offers you a job and you ask for a more meaningful title i would love to hear the response
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: that's a McWebsite
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: it's hilarious
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<centrx> slash_nick, So you are saying a Mechanical Engineer with a PE and no coding experience can be a "Software Engineer", but a person with ten years experience in software engineering cannot be a "Software Engineer" without certification?
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: if they have me working underneath a PE, I wouldn't. If I'm getting my very own cubicle and the wrong title, I would.
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick: lol you crazy
<slash_nick> centrx: i'm saying anyone can be a software engineer... but most software engineers aren't licensed engineers. they just like the word.
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<slash_nick> "call it that, it'll sell better"
<csmrfx> I think we all got that
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: this industry (from my experience) tends to separate a software engineer from a software developer based on the roles they play in the company, not a stupid license (that no one has)
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<csmrfx> software engineer is what companies always want, and software developers are what they always end up hiring
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<b00stfr3ak> can anyone explain what text does in this to_proc? .collect(&:text)
<shinobi_one> it's more about the real world, and not about papers
<RubyPanther> A mechanical engineer could architect software with enough time and documentation. A software developer with "engineer" in their title would not likely have success at designing a clock or other mechanical device of any complexity just from being given the correct formulas and requirements
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<slash_nick> there's a good list of ABET recognized disciplines... wow, software is on it. which means you accepting the title is even more bonkers.
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick: it doesn't matter.. nobody cares about a license for software engineers, thus you shouldn't either
<slash_nick> i'll just program myself to s/engineer/larper/
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<centrx> b00stfr3ak, What is your question exactly?
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: google doesn't care about the license, so you shouldn't either
<RubyPanther> a virtual machine is just a machine. but software development relies generally on engineers of yesteryear having abstracted the machine away for you, so that you can just do some technical writing and feed it into the computer
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<shinobi_one> slash_nick: believe in the google, the google knows all
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: way to overly simplify software developer's jobs!
<b00stfr3ak> centrx: just never seen the text part before. I know what (&:to_i) does, but not sure what (&:text) does. What does text mean/do? Or where can i look? The doc's only show to_s
<RubyPanther> Like the song says, "a program is just words" http://s3.amazonaws.com/mislav.baconfile.com/poignant-guide%2Fchapter-3-chunky-bacon.mp3
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: You might just have an over-simplified understanding of technical writing if you think it over-simplifies what a software dev does ;)
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<centrx> b00stfr3ak, It is not a common method in the core library
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: where's your stamp? http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/images/firmstamps/SealFirm2.jpg
<centrx> b00stfr3ak, Maybe it is related to some gem you are using?
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<shinobi_one> "you can just do some technical writing and feed it into the computer" sounds pretty simple to me!
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: you do get a stamp, right?
<RubyPanther> It is basically the exact same job, but the technical writer writes for the humans and the programmer writes for the computer. Neither is designing a machine.
<slash_nick> shinobi_one: because... engineers have stamps.
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: dafuq is a stamp
<slash_nick> the thing that certifies an actual engineer signed off on the design
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: google cares not about stamp, i cares not about stamp.
<b00stfr3ak> centrx: maybe, i'll check it out
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<csmrfx> b00stfr3ak: I believe it calls text on the object passed to the collect block and returns the result
<b00stfr3ak> centrx: using nessus-xmlrpc
<RubyPanther> Except, like, Tenderlove and crap (<3 <3 <3) like Journey. That is what a software machine actually looks like. http://www.confreaks.com/videos/782-magrails2011-pattern-matching
<shinobi_one> lol that pattern matching rails routes video again
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<RubyPanther> Eventually somebody will watch it. They might even learn something.
<shinobi_one> I've seen it a couple times. I enjoyed it. He's a fun guy.
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<RubyPanther> I don't like the fun parts, but the dry parts are very entertaining.
<shinobi_one> Interesting
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<shinobi_one> I should totally get this engineering qualification, just to be an ass :D
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<slash_nick> shinobi_one: it wouldn't make you an ass... it'd make you a professional.
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<slash_nick> shinobi_one: plus, you'd get a stamp.
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: I am a professional already. Hence the degree and experience.
<shinobi_one> slash_nick: the stamp DOES look nice I have to say
<csmrfx> wow
<csmrfx> does a degree make you a professional
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<csmrfx> hot news flash
<kayloos_> Who wants to be an engineer.... Computer Scientist is the new cool thing
<slash_nick> csmrfx: no it does not.
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<shinobi_one> kayloos_: haha
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<shinobi_one> csmrfx: the combination of the two does xD
<terrellt> Woah woah, wait
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<terrellt> Software Engineering doesn't have an official licensing agency like engineers do, no?
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<csmrfx> I think you can join IEEE and whatevs if you want
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<slash_nick> terrellt: ABET recognizes it...
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<terrellt> slash_nick: The IEEE one?
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<slash_nick> terrellt: it spans disciplines... Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology
<shinobi_one> haha they don't even have one in my state for software engineering a 4 year bachelor's
<shinobi_one> probably because nobody cares!
<slash_nick> "In addition to establishing their own licensing requirements, each state also punishes acts of professional engineering without a license differently. However, anyone who commits a criminal act of unlicensed professional engineering faces a range of penalties regardless of the state in which the acts occur."
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<centrx> Several states require a license to be an Interior Decorator
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<terrellt> Good.
<terrellt> If they want to color my drapes they better be a pro.
<csmrfx> "In addition to forcing you to wear a bandana identifying you as an Software Engineer, each state also punishes SEs by cordoning their habitat from the general public..."
<shinobi_one> ^ lmao
<stringoO> what's the best way to get a hash without certain keys - the reject method?
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<shinobi_one> stringoO: your question is vague
<csmrfx> hash minus hash with the keys?
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<shinobi_one> stringoO: can you be more specific?
<stringoO> i have a hash from a form submission
<stringoO> i want to pass this to a function, but without the password field
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<terrellt> h.select{|k,v| !rejected_keys.include?(k)}
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<stringoO> thanks @terrellt!
<terrellt> If you're in Rails, check out #except
<albedoa> heeey guys, in my terminal @ = alias and * = ???
<csmrfx> haha, I was dreaming again
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<slash_nick> albedoa: whaaaaa?
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<albedoa> err @ = sym link and * = ???
<csmrfx> I would do hsh.delete("key", "entry", "etc")
<shinobi_one> what's wrong with hash.delete(:password_field) ?
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<slash_nick> albedoa: can you paste what's in your terminal? having a hard time understanding
<shinobi_one> albedoa: * means executable?
<albedoa> erb* ri-ruby-1.9.3-p448@proj@ erb-ruby-1.9.3-p448@
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<shinobi_one> albedoa: means executable.
<albedoa> okay ty
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<itamaryu> Hi guys, do you have any ProTip how to find memory leak ?
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<slash_nick> itamaryu: submerge the system and look for air bubbles
<itamaryu> I'm using Ruby 1.9.3p0 + Rails 3.2.17 and my 13 ruby instances taking 1.9GB (!!) memory
<slash_nick> oh, oh... a -memory- leak. i forget.
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<terrellt> I recommended .select because I don't like getting returned a hash of deleted keys.
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<itamaryu> so what would you suggest for -memory- leak ? any pills ? :)
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<Soulcutter> ruby-prof
<RubyPanther> itamaryu: 13 copies of rails taking 2G does not imply a leak, it implies you need a sysadmin
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<RubyPanther> to optimize the number of processes. You're probably just running too many
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<terrellt> Maybe he has 13 cores!
<terrellt> You don't know him!
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<apeiros> he has 16. 1 is for the OS, 1 for the cron jobs, and 1 for ssh sessions.
<RubyPanther> lol if he has 13 cores and 2G of RAM is a cause for concern, then he needs a sysadmin worse than I thought ;)
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<RubyPanther> I'm not a sysadmin, but I do have the hat
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: wait.. you're not a SysAdmin Engineer? :O
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: I am also not a Systems Engineer ;)
<RubyPanther> but he needs an admin
<shinobi_one> lol sounds like he does
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<RubyPanther> engineers already built apache
<shinobi_one> were they... certified?
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<shinobi_one> lol
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<RubyPanther> considering it was built pre-.com, yeah, I'm sure they had lots of letters next to their names
<shinobi_one> I wish I had a real linux system/web administrator.
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<terrellt> We have one!
<shinobi_one> terrellt: lucky
* shinobi_one jealous
<RubyPanther> wtf is a web admin? Is that like a "webmaster?"
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<terrellt> I still do a lot of it. Devops is a real thing.
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: it's whatever you want it to be ;)
<arubincloud> I want it to be a guy sitting on a throne who rules the web.
<shinobi_one> arubincloud: i like that
<RubyPanther> Protip: don't let your network admin wear the sysadmin hat, or you'll end up not being allowed compilers on your webserver and you'll be coding in java
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: lol
<platzhirsch> nice
<arubincloud> Not allowing compilers on web servers is generally a good idea.
<RubyPanther> See! Real people really believe in this.
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<platzhirsch> It's at hing
<terrellt> That would -suck-
<platzhirsch> grass root movement
<RubyPanther> Been there, lived it. Yes, it sucks.
<shinobi_one> lol
<RubyPanther> Well, we used C not Java, so it wasn't thaaaat bad
<apeiros> why'd you need a compiler on a webserver if you have a real infrastructure?
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<RubyPanther> apeiros: because interpreters are a type of compiler
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<apeiros> err, no
<RubyPanther> err, yes. really.
<apeiros> that's why they have a different name.
<shinobi_one> And it begins.
<apeiros> because they, um, interpret. and don't compile.
<kayloos_> Let the hunger games begin!
<RubyPanther> apeiros: dig into the technical meaning of interpreter, and you'll find out there isn't one except that each language has locally defined it
<apeiros> RubyPanther: wait.
<apeiros> *bzinngg*
<apeiros> done.
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<apeiros> still different.
<shinobi_one> lmao
<apeiros> your turn to dig.
<RubyPanther> An example of a compiler and an example of an interpreter, they will look different. That isn't the same as defining them, and then trying to fit the definition to the range of actual examples.
<RubyPanther> Is java compiled? Or interpreted? Depends who you ask. That is a fact.
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<apeiros> RubyPanther: you know, if I hadn't learnt that arguing with you is wall-talking, I'd actually be somewhat interested in that discussion.
<shinobi_one> Java is compiled to byte code xD
<platzhirsch> Java is compiled, the Java Byte Code is interpreted?
<arubincloud> RubyPanther: Both.
<RubyPanther> Does perl compile and then run the code, or is it an interpreter?
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<RubyPanther> arubincloud: Exactly!
<arubincloud> Most languages do exactly what Java does, but the compilation step is not separate.
<shinobi_one> Java is compiled no matter how you look at it.
<shinobi_one> To byte code.
<arubincloud> shinobi_one: So are most other languages.
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<shinobi_one> I would love to hear an argument against Java being compiled.
<apeiros> silly guys
<apeiros> the language does NOT define whether it's interpreted or compiled.
<hmbl9r> shinobi_one, for the right price, i'll write you a java interpreter
<apeiros> the interpreter/compiler defines that.
<apeiros> you can interpret C. you can compile JS.
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<shinobi_one> hmbl9r: no ty ;)
<hmbl9r> point is, being interpreted/compiled is not a feature of a language
<RubyPanther> itamaryu: the problem is that 4 rails processes take about the same total computer time as 8, for n requests. But they use different amounts of RAM. You shouldn't care about the number of cores because the CPU will only be your bottleneck when there is sucky code (or in rare cases that are CPU intensive)
<hmbl9r> but of a specific implementation of a language
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: his rails web app could be doing bitcoins who knows
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<RubyPanther> Right, you can compile JS, or interpret C. It is fuzzy, it depends what exactly you're doing. There isn't a clear technical definition that will fit the actual cases.
<itamaryu> So how should I start ?>
<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: that would be very sloppy code, it should be in an external process ;)
<itamaryu> and is there a way to do it in dev env ?
<RubyPanther> so yes, we can know that without knowing what he's doing :)
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<hmbl9r> RubyPanther you are a retard
<hmbl9r> get a job
<shinobi_one> :O
<RubyPanther> itamaryu: If you don't have access to a sysadmin, just reduce the number of processes until the memory usage is what you think is optimal
<centrx> L.O.L
<apeiros> RubyPanther: there actually is. are. c2 and WP gladly supply you with plenty.
<kayloos_> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
<apeiros> hmbl9r: behave
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<itamaryu> how can I know if there is a bitcoin mining on my machine ?
<apeiros> hmbl9r: insults are not tolerated here.
<shinobi_one> haha oh my god
<RubyPanther> apeiros: there are lots of definitions, yes, they aren't all compatible with each other though
<shinobi_one> i just died inside
<platzhirsch> when you have a method like top_5_words do you think it would be swell to allow top_integer_words methods by using the undefined_method method?
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<apeiros> shinobi_one: oy, go to a doctor?
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<RubyPanther> If you have this conversation with compiler engineers, they generally agree the differences are fuzzy.
<shinobi_one> apeiros: it's too late.. i'm dead inside..
<apeiros> dying inside sounds serious
<hmbl9r> apeiros, his constant spewing of bullshit is an insult to this channel
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<RubyPanther> It is known as a fuzzy definition.
<platzhirsch> err method_missing
<epochwolf> hmbl9r: the answers are yes, no.
<platzhirsch> Use method_missing to implement all kinds of top_number_words
<shinobi_one> epochwolf: lol
<apeiros> hmbl9r: yeah, he can be annoying. however, your client certainly has /ignore
<pipework> hmbl9r: No it isn't.
<RubyPanther> The set that is compilers and interpreters is easy to define inclusively, but the line between them is not.
<pipework> He's our beloved resident troll.
<shinobi_one> guys guys.. we haven't addressed itamaryu's issue of not knowing if he's mining bitcoins
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<hmbl9r> gah
<epochwolf> shinobi_one: that's really easy to check, what's using 97% of the CPU.
<centrx> Bitcoin failed to compile on my system :(
<pipework> shinobi_one: In an abstract way, we're all mining bitcoin.
<pangur> @folks.each do |person|; puts person.show; end shows me people's names but the lines are double-spaced. What should I look for to make the line-spacing single-spaced, please?
<shinobi_one> pipework: >.<
<itamaryu> shinobi_one: thanks !
<epochwolf> pipework: I do my mining offline.
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<apeiros> maybe we need a kickvote system
<pipework> I do my mining where it belongs. In the bedroom.
<shinobi_one> apeiros: eh that's probably the wrong way to go
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<apeiros> but I'm not yet willing to kick somebody for bullshitting around.
<pipework> apeiros: Maybe we need a way to silently +q vote people.
<shinobi_one> apeiros: that's how you end up with cliques of "righteous" people votekicking whomever they dislike
<pipework> Hellban them for a chunk of time.
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<apeiros> shinobi_one: slashdot has an efficient way to do that. though activity detection is a bit of an issue in irc.
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<RubyPanther> For us old fogies it is actually a historical thing; servers often weren't allowed compilers, and there was debate even over if java was allowed, with different shops going different directions on that point. Eventually we know that in the case of Java, a consensus was found that it is compiled-enough. And in Perl, it is not compiled enough normally, but if you save the bytecode... then it is debatable with different shops still goin
<RubyPanther> g different ways on it
<itamaryu> Here is my 'top' command : http://pastebin.com/k30qvqF8
<epochwolf> pipework, hmbl9r, and epochwolf hellbanned for 24 hours in 3... 2... 1...
<itamaryu> what do you think ?
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<shevy> I wanna keep RubyPanther
<pipework> epochwolf: Feature.
<RubyPanther> So, people claim I'm a troll just for thinking it is debatable... when it is a historical debate... it is comical, but sad.
<pipework> shinobi_one: You'll have to water and feed him. Talk him and all that.
<pangur> @folks < p where p=Person.new(title, fore, surn) puts the names into @folks. Where do the extra blank lines come from?
<epochwolf> shevy: you can keep him, the rest of us don't want him.
<shinobi_one> itamaryu: dry reducing the number of unicorn and sidekiq instances
<shinobi_one> try*
<RubyPanther> epochwolf, speaker for all!
<shevy> epochwolf yay, we'll keep him in the channel!
<RubyPanther> oh, wait, he was just lying.
<epochwolf> shevy: works for me. :D
<shinobi_one> pipework: lol
<shevy> you gotta admire his endurance
<pipework> Walk him*
<epochwolf> shevy: pipework's endurance is stuff of legends.
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<shinobi_one> pipework: i liked water better ;)
<shevy> I've been writing some ruby code the last hour or so, I come back and there is *still* talking about what started like 2 hours ago
<RubyPanther> He's not old enough to have had endurance.
<apeiros> shevy: not true!
<shevy> epochwolf nah, pipework is totally helpless without documentation
<shinobi_one> shevy: no no, different conversation now, moved on to compilers/interpreters
* pangur has googled how to remove unwanted lines in Ruby
<apeiros> shevy: it moved from C*O/titles to interpreters vs. compilers.
<itamaryu> shinobi_one: I already reduced the number of instances of, didn;t help much
<shevy> shinobi_one I see; I have to admit, I did not follow it too closely ;-)
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<pipework> I'm old enough to know that I'm too young to give half a fuck about most opinions in here.
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<pipework> except apeiros. He's a cool cat.
<apeiros> pipework: is half a fuck worth it? are you good looking?
<epochwolf> pipework: don't even use that much, I'll take all of that fuck right now.
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<shevy> he can ban
<shinobi_one> apeiros: it went from softwar engineering vs software development and what it means, to ceo/cio/cto, to compilers/interpreters
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<pipework> RubyPanther: I'm very aware.
<apeiros> shinobi_one: write a blog post?
<shevy> shinobi_one how did it go from CEO to compilers???
<RubyPanther> it didn't
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<apeiros> shinobi_one: don't forget to mention that you're a zombie in that post.
<shinobi_one> apeiros: lol, good call. i would have forgot
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<shevy> well at least RubyPanther is a tired cat now
* pangur tries to figure out where blank lines are coming from.
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* epochwolf goes back to drinking his wine.
<shinobi_one> shevy: doubt it.
<shinobi_one> epochwolf: hmm red?
<shevy> shinobi_one don't trigger something in RubyPanther ;)
<epochwolf> shinobi_one: in a way... it's cherry wine :P
<RubyPanther> I gotta go, I just a "help me obiwan" email
<RubyPanther> just got
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<shevy> \o/
<pipework> shevy: He's a bit of an old cat.
<epochwolf> shinobi_one: 18% alcohol :D
<shevy> yeah, he was using ruby years before I found it
<RubyPanther> are you sure it is still "wine" at 18%?
<shinobi_one> epochwolf: cherry wine? interesting
<epochwolf> RubyPanther: dessert wines can be higher alcohol
<pangur> Am I wrong to expect single-line spacing from @folks.each do |person|; puts person.show; end ?
<epochwolf> It's not distilled
<shevy> pangur depends on what the method show gives you back
<pangur> show is defined as ... puts "#{@title} #{@fore} #{@surn}"
<shevy> well then why call puts twice
<pangur> ah
<RubyPanther> epochwolf: sure but most dessert wines are liqueurs
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* pipework is at ruby on ales and is therefore an authority on ruby and alcoholic beverages.
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<kayloos_> pangur: you figured it out?
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<kayloos_> pangur: dem double puts
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<havenwood> pipework: ooh, fun - i'd like to go to that one next year!
<pangur> Yes, shevy has just shown me that I should not have puts person.show, kayloos_ :)
<shinobi_one> pipework: are you drinking ale though?
<pipework> havenwood: It's super fun!
<shevy> \o/
<pangur> Thanks :)
<pipework> shinobi_one: Many ales.
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<shevy> simple problem is a good problem
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<shevy> @@problems are annoying problems
<shinobi_one> pipework: ales are my favorite :(
* pangur deletes the second puts
<pipework> shevy should become a hard-hitting alcoholic.
<shinobi_one> pipework: my flavorite even..
<platzhirsch> When there needs to be a method top_5_words, is it legitimate to use the method method_missing to generate other top_x_words methods?
<pangur> All working now :-)
<shevy> pipework when I was younger sure, but these days alcohol kills me :(
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<pipework> shevy: I don't see the problem.
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<shinobi_one> platzhirsch: can you do top_words(x) instead?
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* pangur is a happy chappy
<platzhirsch> shinobi_one: no, but I get your point
<epochwolf> RubyPanther: I think I figured out how they got 18%, it's fermanted cherries and beet sugar. :D
<shevy> platzhirsch hmm... method_missing always scares me
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<platzhirsch> yeah, I don't know if it disturbs the interviewer or impressed him when I use it
<platzhirsch> probably he doesn't care at all
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<pipework> shevy: You're too timid.
<RubyPanther> epochwolf: so not the top shelf, but the upper half, it has a chance to be good :)
<shevy> I once had several classes that all used method_missing
<pipework> Bravelymetabrogram.
<shevy> I no longer understood what they were doing after a year not looking at it
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<platzhirsch> If you don't use method_missing, you are doing it wrong.
<shinobi_one> shevy such is code.
<pipework> method_missing is DRY
<shevy> shinobi_one well partially, most of my other code I can look at it and instantly know what is going on
<platzhirsch> okay guys, I will do it. Brace yourselves
<shinobi_one> shevy: i was joking :P
<shevy> noooooooooooooooooooooooooo :(
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<RubyPanther> method_missing is almost always the wrong thing to do. But it might be right in this case.
<shevy> don't go down that hole platzhirsch
<shevy> RubyPanther so what now
<pipework> Use method_missing and method_defined
<shevy> are you saying he should use it or are you saying he should not use it
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<platzhirsch> I just want to use it so the guy reckons me "Look ma, meta-programming"
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<shinobi_one> shevy: he's saying he probably shouldn't, but maybe he should in this case
<RubyPanther> If you're not SURE that method_missing is the right thing to do, don't do it.
<shevy> shinobi_one omg perhaps he should get banned
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<shinobi_one> shevy: /votekick!
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<shevy> just kidding :D
<pipework> If you haven't used method_missing, you haven't lived.
<platzhirsch> bleeding edge
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<shevy> pipework let me grep through my .rb files ...
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<shinobi_one> bleeding edge of a double-edged sword, sounds fun!
<platzhirsch> It will break, it will break, it will break *stopes up*
<shevy> hmm ... 16 instances of where I use method_missing ...
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<shevy> but 7 of them in test/ dir so they are just demo
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<RubyPanther> what happens in test/, stays in test/
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: there is no spoon
<platzhirsch> I have talked to some startups now and they all use Ruby but think of moving to Go in the future
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<shevy> 2 of these files were written by other people
<pipework> What happens in test/ is probably also located in /dev/null #cowboycoding
<shevy> platzhirsch so you will use Go as well?
<platzhirsch> shevy: it would be swell to work at a company like that because then I had a reason to learn Go
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> so enthusiastic
<platzhirsch> yeah stilll, we talk again in 6 months when I am still stuck at my old job
<shevy> lol
<platzhirsch> depressions incoming
<RubyPanther> Go is compiled, you can use go even if your sysadmin is a network admin who went to BOFH school
<platzhirsch> Stage 1: Listening to The Smiths (completed)
<terrellt> I think RubyPanther has some anxiety.
<shinobi_one> lol
<terrellt> Relax man, it's gonna be okay
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<RubyPanther> I'm not scared of the BOFH, if I see one, I'll quit before he can touch my dev box
<RubyPanther> problem solved
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<pipework> I ain't even afraid of anything.
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: What if you don't see them because they are ninja BOFH?
<pipework> Less alone the bofhen.
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: BOFHs can't step softly, even in a ninja hat
<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: But if they are night time ones, who stomp through the night when you are not around..
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<pipework> Are there daywalker bofh?
<shinobi_one> pipework: but of course.. if they stay out of the sunlight shining in through the windows, they are fine
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<RubyPanther> They have to come out during the day, if they only came out at night they'd have to plan network downtime, create procedures people could actually follow, etc
<RubyPanther> Only a quality network admin can drift quietly through the night making everything work
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<shinobi_one> RubyPanther: Those exist!?
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<RubyPanther> shinobi_one: Yes.
* shinobi_one amazed
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<RubyPanther> IBM professional services even rents them out.
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<gizmore> 3 months since i migrated from php to ruby for a new private project :)
<gizmore> :rocks
<bilbo_swaggins> ruby's not perfect, but it's certainly a few steps above php
<gizmore> :rocks.to_s.send :to_a
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<gizmore> yes... a few dozens :)
<shevy> yeah bilbo_swaggins
<pipework> RubyPanther: But can they deploy rails applications on the JVM with jboss?
<bilbo_swaggins> ['r','o','c','k','s']
<pipework> bilbo_swaggins: one or two, I guess.
<gizmore> .join
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<pipework> gizmore: We, um, get it. You're kind of a slow interpreter.
<pipework> Though, I'm sure you outpace MRI.
<gizmore> coding an irc bot in rubyonrails... may i show some evil code i wrote?
<bilbo_swaggins> *budum tss*
<gizmore> i patched active record to map all rows to the same instance :P
<gizmore> for some tables :)
<centrx> PHP is an abomination and a scourge on the face of the earth.
<gizmore> sadly it´s still instanciating the original result, so quite some overhead, but i needed that feature badly
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<shevy> centrx hahaha that is your default sentence
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<bilbo_swaggins> I'm both intrigued and nervous, gizmore
<gizmore> centrx probably has a trigger for php
<shevy> yeah
<centrx> I am building up my artificial intelligence
<bilbo_swaggins> centrx, dope, man
<bilbo_swaggins> I'm working on my AI algos
<bilbo_swaggins> and nature-inspired algos
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<shevy> it is so sad that AI is so algo driven
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<bilbo_swaggins> what else would it be?
<gizmore> http://cxg.de/_46f080.htm (global_orm_mapping_mapping \o/)
<shevy> look at a group of wasps
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<shevy> they don't need to be able to count past 20
<bilbo_swaggins> well sure
<bilbo_swaggins> it sounds like I can recommend a book you'd like
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<gizmore> cached? should be renamed into should_cache?
<platzhirsch> How can I shorten: while not next_word.nil?; end
<bilbo_swaggins> Clever Algorithms - Nature Inspired Programming Recipes
<bilbo_swaggins> You can find it for free using Google, if you so desire
<shevy> platzhirsch not sure you can shorten that much, it is already very terse
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<bilbo_swaggins> shevy, I think algorithms that emulate insect-style collective intelligence are crazy cool
<platzhirsch> shevy: looks ugly with that empty body
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<shevy> platzhirsch yeah, I think while looks ugly almost always; only for loops are worse
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<bilbo_swaggins> until next_word.nil?
<platzhirsch> shevy: or loop with break
<slash_nick> i like "while(true) do"
<shevy> bilbo_swaggins dunno, that seems an extremely tech-driven approach, I came more from biology and molecular biology
<slash_nick> or loop do with break, yeah
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<platzhirsch> loop { break if word_next.nil? }
<bilbo_swaggins> I want to move from hardline tech to biology-inspired tech
<platzhirsch> that's very readable imo
<shevy> platzhirsch that looks a bit better!
<bilbo_swaggins> so I guess it makes sense to me
<bilbo_swaggins> biology is hella cool
<shevy> I like loop { } in general, its intent seems very clear
<bilbo_swaggins> I watched a BBC documentary on the transport networks in cells
<shevy> yeah, it's cool how cargo moves inside of a cell
<bilbo_swaggins> protein motors
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<bilbo_swaggins> what were they called?
<shevy> there are several; dyneins, kinesins, actin-myosin
<bilbo_swaggins> kinesins
<gizmore> bilbo_swaggins: women
<shevy> and of course the microtubuli railroads; these are my favourites
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<shevy> they always reminded me of carbon nanotubes
<bilbo_swaggins> I've heard DNA has start and stop sequences and sequences to direct the transcription to other areas of DNA, like a turing machine
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<shevy> k but DNA has only 4 different states at any position, you need molecules able to recognize these sequences too
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<bilbo_swaggins> I have a near-religious appreciation for the way the universe works
<bilbo_swaggins> I'm super excited that Neil deGrass Tyson is rebooting Cosmos
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<bilbo_swaggins> he's all around entertaining, intelligent and probably just a nice guy
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<shevy> the universe is well out of my league
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<platzhirsch> @words.sort_by { |_, count| - count }[0..4].map(&:first) this is how I return the top five words. Now I want to fill up the remaining slots with nil. Any idea how to make this more concise?
<banister> bilbo_swaggins i find tyson more of a showman, and far less deep and interesting than carl sagan. There's something too slick and almost artificial about tyson
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<fraterlaetus> hello again!
<shevy> platzhirsch god, you and your microperfections :P
<platzhirsch> shevy: haha, yeah I am really bored with this shitty assignment
<fraterlaetus> so, I think I'm much further along now.
<shevy> yeah now you are golfing
<shevy> fraterlaetus good!
<platzhirsch> I need to impress the shit out of them
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<platzhirsch> they have to feint when they look at my code
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<banister> platzhirsch can't you use min_by or max_by instead?
<fraterlaetus> for some reason, the array is now only populating with the last value in the table...
<shevy> fraterlaetus first thing I notice - no colours :(
<fraterlaetus> colours?
<platzhirsch> banister: probably, I will take a look, thanks :)
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<fraterlaetus> is that an option in gist?
<fraterlaetus> (first time using it instead of pastebin)
<shevy> it gets done automatically if you append .rb as file end
<banister> platzhirsch @words.lazy.map(&:first).sort.first(4) maybe
<shevy> just store as foo.rb and it is done for you
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<platzhirsch> oh lazy is good
<shevy> there is an entry called "name" or so, optional
<shevy> you seem to have done foo.txt or the like
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<fraterlaetus> fixed
<shevy> ok next thing, I know it is tiny but :D
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<shevy> line 46 is not indented one level to the right
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<shevy> I'd also get rid of the newline above, because you did not use a newline before "end" either
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<shevy> fraterlaetus you could turn rows = and table = into constants
<shevy> ROWS =
<shevy> TABLE =
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<fraterlaetus> this is why I cant have nice things. ;)