apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.0; 2.0.0-p353; 1.9.3-p484: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<platzhirsch> Anyone watching Mad Men?
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<benzrf> nah
<RubyPanther> what is that?
<benzrf> it is a tv show
<benzrf> about guys who are assholes, i think
<platzhirsch> About the 60s in NYC and an advertising company
<platzhirsch> It's very subtle and beautiful
<platzhirsch> like Ruby
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<RubyPanther> "who controls the screen the you look at controls your mind. The upside of that is that you've got to control the screens you look at." -- Timothy Leary
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<platzhirsch> Oh man, right spot on my philosopy
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<RubyPanther> drugs were for expanding the mind before we could control our screens :)
<platzhirsch> "Always create more value than you consume" — Tim O'Reilly
<benzrf> man timothy leary did that one bullshit 'you are not like them' quote
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<platzhirsch> Since everything is a remix he will have had a derivative of this quote, but I don't know who said something similar, but it is very important to me, because it boils down to consumerism
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<Paradox> remix
<RubyPanther> if you're that far outside the box, you're going to have inconsistent results. That's not bad.
<platzhirsch> what
<platzhirsch> err, I mean: que?
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<RubyPanther> People said Ada Hopper was crazy for thinking that programming languages could be designed such that regular smart people could understand them, and not just math people
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<benzrf> hopper?
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<benzrf> ohcibi:
<benzrf> *oh
<RubyPanther> oops, sorry, name fail, Grace Hopper
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<platzhirsch> Ada Lovelace, well everything is a remix just got a new meaning, maybe the more simple one
<RubyPanther> "What was your name again?" <--- me at the end of meetings
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<platzhirsch> I would respond with "You know who I am… Say my name"
<RubyPanther> In Ruby I can foo.methods.sort - Object.new.methods as many times as I want and it never gets offended
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<RubyPanther> I know who you are, you're the very important person I was hoping to impress today.
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<gauteh> hi.. im trying to make a custom cellrenderer for gtk3
<benzrf> gl
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<benzrf> ^awesome pun
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<gauteh> if i've understood stuff correctly i need to make a gobject-property that matches the column and liststore im using
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<gauteh> how can i add a property like that to my subclass of Gtk::CellRenderer?
<shevy> should I use
<shevy> array[-1] or array.last
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<benzrf> shevy: the last of those
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<RubyPanther> copyright AMC Entertainment Network LLC ?
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<benzrf> RubyPanther: breaking bad
<platzhirsch> benzrf: hihi
<benzrf> its a fictional site
<platzhirsch> omg it is real
<benzrf> walter white is not a real human bean
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<RubyPanther> Wow, I'm so glad I have no idea about this stuff lol
<benzrf> ಠ_ಠ
<platzhirsch> Dude
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<platzhirsch> You don't joke about this stuff, that's like saying I have no idea who jesus is
<platzhirsch> Don't take the Lord's name in vain
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<platzhirsch> (Secretly I envy you RubyPanther)
<RubyPanther> lol, no joke, tv will pollute your mind. It will connect parts of your brain that you have no use to connect, in preference to the other things that choose to try to connect but that have less sensory input, like written words
<benzrf> platzhirsch: dont expect anything sane or reasonable to come out of RubyPanther
<benzrf> he does not even like haskell
<shevy> who likes haskell anyway
<platzhirsch> Well so far I agreed with you RubyPanther, but Haskell, really?
<platz> "does not even", as if everyone does ;)
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<platzhirsch> What the heck
<shevy> I misplaced my glasses and can't recall where I put it :(
<RubyPanther> functional programming is a lie, as soon as you turn your head they're creating fake state and hiding it in a function
<benzrf> platz: who does not like haskell
<benzrf> it is sublime in its perfect beauty
<benzrf> B)
<platzhirsch> It's good that not everyone knows Haskell. It's still an a place of art to escape to
<benzrf> it has perfect syntax anyway
<dorei> what about LINQ? :p
<platzhirsch> Haskell is programmung eutopia
<RubyPanther> I do know COBOl, though
<benzrf> platzhirsch: nobody spells that with an e
<dorei> RubyPanther: u'll never be unemployed :D
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<platz> platzhirsch: that's part of the why I'm studying it
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<platzhirsch> benzrf: I don't mean utopia, eutopia has a different meaning
<dorei> eutopia is the oposite of dystopia
<dorei> at least in greek :p
<benzrf> platzhirsch: wah?
<benzrf> utopia vs eutopia
<benzrf> ?
<dorei> benzrf: eu = good, dys = bad, u = not, topia = place
<platzhirsch> platz: Who are you? Why are you mimicing me?
<RubyPanther> dorei: my retirement plan is all based on the Y2K bug having been "fixed" in a way that will need to be fixed again at the End of Epoch ( Time.at(0x7fffffff) )
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<platzhirsch> Utopia: the place that cannot be and Eutopia: A good place, made by humans
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<benzrf> :I
<platz> platzhirsch: I've had this nick for a few years now
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<platzhirsch> You realize it's a prefix of mine? What is this, some kind of joke, next minute hirsch will enter the chat
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<RubyPanther> Thomas More himself disagreed, "Wherfore not Utopie, but rather rightely my name is Eutopie, a place of felicitie."
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<benzrf> shit
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<RubyPanther> So the impossibly perfect place is just a good place
<benzrf> i was gonna do that
<platzhirsch> RubyPanther: I don't quite get that
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<hirsch_> platz: muh
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<platz> at least you can get a ton of jobs with ruby. haskell, not so much
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<platzhirsch> Well, I guess that's why it's called tool belt
<dorei> platz: php can get you lots of jobs too
<RubyPanther> There are more Ruby jobs than Haskell jobs, but that tells us nothing about the ratio of jobs:programmers
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<shevy> php has the cutest girls
<RubyPanther> PHP pay is low because while there are lots of jobs, there are also a zillion web designers who know it
<platzhirsch> RubyPanther: but it says there too, it's an interpretation. Thanks for the reference!
<benzrf> php is disgusting
<dorei> benzrf: no more than perl
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<benzrf> much more than perl
<RubyPanther> shevy: Ruby's release manager: http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/avatar/yugui_1293341927_09.jpg
<benzrf> perl is purposefully the way it is
<benzrf> php is unintentionally terrible
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<benzrf> RubyPanther: release manager?
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<platzhirsch> I don't feel comfortable judging PHP, I don't know enough about it
<RubyPanther> some weird title like that
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<Senjai> platzhirsch: You're blessed
<platz> here, this will settle the topic for all http://i.imgur.com/RacplFa.png
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<shevy> RubyPanther pls dont scare me like that
<platzhirsch> Although I once responded in an email conservation to the sentence: "Our front-end is currently written in PHP " with "FRONTEND IN FUCKING WHAT?"
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<shevy> this is php platzhirsch http://www.tnx.nl/php.jpg
<shevy> who the fuck is platz
<RubyPanther> She gave a talk in English about something like "Ruby 2 is coming and Ruby 1.8 is going away" but everything else is Japanese
<shevy> he messes up my tab completion :(
<platzhirsch> shevy: I know, right
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<hirsch_> shevy: Wouldn't work the other way around, too
<shevy> RubyPanther yeah, until that speech I would not have thought that there are japanese with worse english compared to matz
<shevy> now I know that matz must be one of their english-speaking heroes
<platz> Don't worry, I'm not even german
<shevy> why is there also a hirsch_
<RubyPanther> She struggled, but I understood her, she did fine
<shevy> platzhirsch did you divide yourself in two parts?
<platzhirsch> apparently
<shevy> awful
<shevy> get your units back platzhirsch
<bleak> hahah
<benzrf> platzhirsch: here is what you need to know about php
<benzrf> 1. classes are not first-class, but you can introspect a class using a string containing its name
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<benzrf> 2. ?: is right-associative
<benzrf> *left-associative
<platzhirsch> lol I have heard enough
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<Senjai> benzrf: isn't ruby left associative?
<benzrf> no...
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<Senjai> >> (true || nil)
<eval-in> Senjai => true (https://eval.in/96839)
<benzrf> do you know what left-associativve means
<Senjai> guess not
<platzhirsch> Bäm, proof by example
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<Senjai> Isn't it what allows you to do short circuit eval
<benzrf> it means that it groups to the right
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<benzrf> i.e.
<benzrf> 1 - 2 - 3
<benzrf> that's left-associative
<benzrf> because without parens it is equal to
<RubyPanther> PHP is an ignorant slut, the one time I had to fix some PHP code, there were all these lines like preg_replace ... stop stop, just use protection
<benzrf> (1 - 2) - 3
<Senjai> >> ("world" || "hi")
<eval-in> Senjai => "world" (https://eval.in/96840)
<benzrf> first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf' : first_letter == 's' ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch'
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<Senjai> wouldnt right associative eval to "hi"
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<benzrf> >> first_letter = 'b'; first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf' : first_letter == 's' ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch'
<benzrf> eval-in: lets go
<benzrf> whatever
<RubyPanther> I'd use a bunch of parens, regardless of language
<Senjai> benzrf: :/
<benzrf> Senjai: well
<benzrf> what do you /expect/ that to be?
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<Senjai> Pretty sure left associative is what permits short circuit eval
<benzrf> in ruby,
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<benzrf> no manacit
<benzrf> *man
<benzrf> if an operator is left-associative
<benzrf> that means that parens group to the left
<benzrf> i.e. - is left assoc
<benzrf> because:
<Senjai> should be benzrf
<benzrf> 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
<benzrf> is
<benzrf> ((1 - 2) - 3) - 4
<benzrf> if it were right associative that would be
<Senjai> right
<benzrf> 1 - (2 - (3 - 4))
<platzhirsch> Evaluation and Syntax Tree. Thanks, I need to write some cards for that for possible interview questions
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<Senjai> benzrf: Ahh
<benzrf> Senjai: in ruby and all sane langs, ?: is right-assoc
<benzrf> meaning
<benzrf> first_letter = 'b'; first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf' : first_letter == 's' ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch'
<Senjai> I viewed it more like "string" << "another" << "!"
<benzrf> is
<benzrf> first_letter = 'b'; first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf' : (first_letter == 's' ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch')
<benzrf> in php it is left-associative
<benzrf> meaning
<benzrf> (first_letter = 'b'; first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf') : first_letter == 's' ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch'
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<benzrf> oops, ignore that assignment
<benzrf> ugh hold on
<platzhirsch> If you want to hold, just run the GC
<benzrf> first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf' : (first_letter == 's' ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch')
<benzrf> vs
<benzrf> (first_letter == 'b' ? 'benzrf' : first_letter == 's') ? 'senjai' : 'platzhirsch'
<benzrf> which would you /expect/
<benzrf> if you did not write parens?
<benzrf> php does the latter.
<Senjai> thats lame
<centrx> PHP is an abomination.
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<benzrf> php is the one language that i will attack with no reservations
<benzrf> java kinda sucks but it has its uses and is more boring than awful
<benzrf> php is just plain horrendous
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<bleak> java's given me more trouble but php has wasted far more of my time
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<bleak> i don't care about trouble so long as the trouble doesn't last FOR EVER
<RubyPanther> Java isn't "bad" it is just unpleasant and crufty
<platzhirsch> Java is a tower of strength, a bastion of calm and solid as a rock
* platzhirsch roars
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<benzrf> lol
<shevy> omg
<bleak> haha
<shevy> is it first april again
<bleak> hahah
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<dorei> java is like writing a big boring novel
<platzhirsch> dorei: Yeah, but with a lightsaber in the stone wall
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<benzrf> so anyway i think i grok lens in haskell
<RubyPanther> Once upon a time in a land inside the Sun, a verbose world existed on top of a boiling plate...
<platz> java runs the world bro
<RubyPanther> No, C runs the world
<platzhirsch> Annotations, Reflections, pew pew --o --o --o
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<benzrf> platzhirsch: do you lenses?
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<platz> I must learn to be nicer. it's the chinese new year after all
<RubyPanther> Java runs the PHB's enterprise reporting and graphing empire
<platzhirsch> platz: Then don't impersonate me
<benzrf> RubyPanther: java is the PHB of languages
<platzhirsch> benzrf: lens?
<benzrf> haskell lenses
<platz> platzhirsch: you should get a different nick then
<benzrf> !
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<benzrf> view _1 ('a', 'b') -- => 'a'
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<RubyPanther> yeah, Java is overpaid and in the way of nerds enjoying their work
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<platzhirsch> platz: ò_ó
<benzrf> over _1 (++"!") ("cool", "neat") -- => ("cool!", "neat")
<benzrf> platzhirsch: & you can compose them
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<platzhirsch> and create another Frankstein platzhirsch
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<platzhirsch> Frankenstein, too
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<benzrf> platzhirsch: over (_1 . _2 . _1) (*2) ((1, (2, 3)), (4, 5))
<benzrf> ((1,(4,3)),(4,5))
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<benzrf> like getters and setters !
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<platz> benzrf: unfortunately you have to log in, but this video is a nice intro to lenses. https://skillsmatter.com/skillscasts/4251-lenses-compositional-data-access-and-manipulation
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<benzrf> i know some lenses
<benzrf> also, prisms and traversals
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<platz> they're still hard to reason about sometimes. yeah I'm still learning
<benzrf> they are neat as shit
<platzhirsch> benzrf: ah I have heard of them, but unfortunately I am not so much into Haskell
<benzrf> so lame
<platzhirsch> So far it's my plan for 2014, either this or NodeJS
<benzrf> do you grok monads
<benzrf> dont do nodejs
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<benzrf> js is a crappy language for losers!!
<platzhirsch> but concurrency!
<benzrf> nodejs does not even do concurrency
<benzrf> it does async
<benzrf> i think
<benzrf> and that in itself is dumb
<platzhirsch> This should include concurrency
<benzrf> the entire reactor can get held up i hear
<Senjai> node claims non blocking IO, when IO by definition is blocking
<benzrf> if you accidentally do a blocking call
<centrx> It has concurrency by starting a new process, just like every other language on a multi-tasking OS
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<RubyPanther> Only Pythagoras and Leibniz grok monads
<platz> platzhirsch: what is your 'native' language if not ruby ?
<platzhirsch> Still have Real World Haskell sitting in my shelf, but when I start I will begin with Learning you a Haskell for a greater good again
<centrx> The idea is that the footprint of one process is so small, that you can spawn processes to do everything
<platzhirsch> platz: I grew up with Java in my study
<benzrf> platzhirsch: monads are not so hard
<platzhirsch> Monads are ADTs
<platz> java 8 is pretty good i think
<benzrf> no they are not
<benzrf> monads are a kind of algebraic structure
<benzrf> ish
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<platzhirsch> Don't monads have a state that is controlled through certain operations?
<benzrf> they are just functors where the mapped functions can contribute to the structure
<benzrf> that is all
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<platzhirsch> sounds like an ADT
<platz> benzrf: monads defy a concise definition. it takes a lot of examples to gain an intutition for what they are and why they're even useful
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<benzrf> yeah
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<benzrf> sadly
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<platzhirsch> no seriously, I am not afraid of Monads, in fact Monads are a concept why I stir to learn more Haskell, because it's very orthogonal to other concepts in common programming languages
<benzrf> platzhirsch: do you grok functors
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<shevy> what is a functor
<centrx> I was attacked by a monad once
<shevy> lol
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<benzrf> shevy: a functor is a type f plus a function called fmap of type '(a -> b) -> f a -> f b'
<platzhirsch> centrx: now i imagined a monad as one of these hounds from Half Life
<shevy> oh man
<benzrf> shevy: for example the type list plus map is a functor
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<Xuisce> shevy: hey
<platzhirsch> In Ruby you cannot even pass around function objects
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<benzrf> so lame
<Senjai> platzhirsch: Your kidding right?
<Senjai> you can pass functions around
<platzhirsch> Senjai: like what
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<Senjai> in a lambda, or via send, or method
<platzhirsch> mh, Proc, that's right
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<platzhirsch> I only thought about symbols and well, they are only representing the method
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* platzhirsch whips himself
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<shevy> Xuisce hi
<shevy> it's soon bedtime here
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<Xuisce> shevy: I'm learning ruby
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<shevy> GOOD
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<Xuisce> I'll upload the project to GitHub
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<cub1c_> win 2
<Xuisce> Lol I'm still new xd
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<platzhirsch> and we already love you
<shevy> to rubygems.org
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<Xuisce> :)
<shevy> benzrf already has his first gem there
<Xuisce> I'm loved :F
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<shevy> Xuisce ignore platzhirsch, he is horny
<benzrf> hello Xuisce
<Xuisce> Heh
<Xuisce> Hi there benzrf
<benzrf> you should get my gem
<Xuisce> :)
<benzrf> it is nifty
<Xuisce> I will
<platzhirsch> shevy: Your laudatio was better than any viagra
<benzrf> but also just begging to be exploited by malicious people
<benzrf> so don't, like, use it in a public-facing program
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<platzhirsch> benzrf: cool gravatar
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<benzrf> B)
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<platzhirsch> But with the camel cased project names you really look like a caveman. 'till capital case do us part
<benzrf> pfft
<benzrf> snake_case > all
<benzrf> spellcraft and tmp are the only camelcase ones in my github
<platzhirsch> Did you just use an underscore? I have to throw up
<benzrf> underscores are godly
<benzrf> B)
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<platzhirsch> Satan
<diegoviola> Satan?
<benzrf> seitan
<diegoviola> ever heard of The Satanic Bible?
<platzhirsch> depends
<diegoviola> this doesn't look /that/ bad really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible#Prologue
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<diegoviola> i don't know why everyone talks otherwise
<diegoviola> what do you think
<diegoviola> i mean that list
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<RubyPanther> I was in a cult based on that
<benzrf> lol
<diegoviola> really, tell me about it
<RubyPanther> It isn't actually "Satanic" in the normal meaning of the word, eg, they don't generally believe in the God of Abraham
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<RubyPanther> It is just a rejection of traditional top-down religion, and offers an individualistic, libertarian sort of system with a bunch of rituals added
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<diegoviola> i see..
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<RubyPanther> the satan talk is just because the target audience is mostly disgruntled youths raised as Christians
<diegoviola> lol
<centrx> So if you rename Jesus "Satan", they will come flocking?
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<Casslon> This is not the Ruby channel is it? Sorry if I bother
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<benzrf> Casslon: of course it is! :)
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<Casslon> ok
<diegoviola> i'm not going to let the dark side get me
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<RubyPanther> centrx: They don't flock, they just wander in and hang out until they work through their anger issues, then they get a life
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<RubyPanther> Casslon: It is Friday, I guess everybody got their work done on time this week lol
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<RubyPanther> Or, they're waiting for the Last Minute to arrive so they can freak out and ask us to write it for them
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<Casslon> j4t3kpo4kiegr
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<jwhorto1> Hi, if there is someone very faimiliar with rails and havascript, and has 45 minutes, I would like to Skype/phone with them. I will pay graciously ($100 base + bonus) please message me for details
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<platzhirsch> jwhorto1: You really should make it sound less like you are trying to scam people
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<jwhorto1> Idk how haha
<platzhirsch> What is so urgent that you want to throw your American Dollars at someone
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<RubyPanther> Yeah, usually that sort of job pays in AUD or CAD
<gizmore> class def to_value and def self.to_value is shadowing?
<jwhorto1> USD..
<jwhorto1> just to skype/phone for 45 minutes
<jwhorto1> I can ay paypal or btc
<jwhorto1> upfront
<RubyPanther> btc lol
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<RubyPanther> jwhorto1: I'll do it if you pre-pay in person with a money order
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<jwhorto1> paypal?
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<RubyPanther> so the scoop from PM is that it is industrial espionage and he's trying to fake past a phone interview to get into the offices of climate.org
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<jwhorto1> more or less
<jwhorto1> Im not trying to be shady here :/
<platzhirsch> ah ok, yeah that makes sense
<RubyPanther> His IP is in the US, I'
<jwhorto1> I own a web based irrigation controller company
<platzhirsch> I wondered what climate.org is so much for a software developer anyway
<jwhorto1> they have climate data services
<RubyPanther> I'm thinking the FBI can probably decide better than I can if it is "shady"
<jwhorto1> I am trying to work some kind of partnership
<jwhorto1> they are not interested, but I feel I could talk them into it in person
<platzhirsch> I am sure they will get pretty mad ^^
<jwhorto1> well
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<jwhorto1> I am not that bad with rails and ruby
<RubyPanther> You know what, if somebody faked their way into my office like that, I would probably handcuff them to the chair before calling the cops
<jwhorto1> I am just uncomfortable
<jwhorto1> high anxiety
<jwhorto1> and I feel like I'll forget somethign basic
<jwhorto1> and screw it all to hell
<benzrf> ttyl later
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<jwhorto1> :/
<platzhirsch> I have looked at the staff and those people look like they will pour whiskey over you and ignite you
<jwhorto1> Im really just looking for help in an interview due to anxiety
<jwhorto1> but i understand all hesitation
<platzhirsch> So why not just show up at their office without the on-site interview
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<jwhorto1> I live in az, they are ca
<jwhorto1> thanks guys, I understand this all seemed/IS sketchy
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<jwhorto1> and shady
<jwhorto1> I just have high social anxiety..
<jwhorto1> the offer is still up
<jwhorto1> but the call has started
<platzhirsch> :o
<platzhirsch> good luck?!
<jwhorto1> im sorry for trying to do that
<jwhorto1> thank you, in all honesty..
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<jwhorto1> it was climate.com *** btw
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<gizmore> is there a rubysome way to write: "if argc.between 0..1?" ?
<platzhirsch> ohhh
<platzhirsch> yeah that looks more like it jwhorto1 ;)
<jwhorto1> haha..
<platzhirsch> They won't pour Whiskey over you. Well if you really have a problem, I think you can talk to the recruiters about this particular issue
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<RubyPanther> .org .com same thing right?
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<platzhirsch> no
<jwhorto1> no
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<Casslon> Join #Python
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<jwhorto1> well
<jwhorto1> glad I didn pay anyone
<jwhorto1> anxiety just gets the best of me sometimes
<jwhorto1> sorry for flaunting that super sketchy offer to you guys
<jwhorto1> RubyPanther and platzhirsch
<jwhorto1> the Q's were simple
<jwhorto1> and SQL based really
<platzhirsch> cool
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<platzhirsch> glad to hear :)
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<jwhorto1> they just wanted to know my own ruby experience, and it satisfied them
<RubyPanther> lol I already mailed them a log
<jwhorto1> then they threw me a simple Q
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<platzhirsch> \o/
<jwhorto1> and I nailed it
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<jwhorto1> thanks RubyPanther :((
<jwhorto1> had i not asked and you did that, I think the offer was mine...
<jwhorto1> my fault though
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<RubyPanther> this is freenode not efnet
<jwhorto1> I understand
<jwhorto1> I made an idiotic mistake
<jwhorto1> and ill pay the just consequences
<agent_white> jwhorto1: Relax a bit! If don't know an answer, say it straight: "I don't know, but I can find out."
<jwhorto1> thanks agent
<platzhirsch> Well, this went unlucky, but let's see, maybe they'll understand, after all the spoke to you
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<jwhorto1> The call is over-- I nailed all the Qs without help. but I made the mistake of asking others and paying for walkthroughs
<jwhorto1> theyre an organization I believe in, and I just wanted really bad to make it to the next step
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<jwhorto1> I was idiotic in trying to cheat the system though
<jwhorto1> ugh
<agent_white> Well, if you want to get laid... generally it's not a good idea to find a hooker.
<jwhorto1> I just have extreme social anxiety, so the darker part of me thought this was a good idea
<CourtJesterG> i hear the news is full of them for superbowel
<jwhorto1> hahahah agent
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<jwhorto1> thats actually well put insight
<jwhorto1> I wont make the mistake again
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<platzhirsch> jwhorto1: Wait for their follow-up email and then you can still explain yourself
<jwhorto1> I need to learn to stop second guessing my abilties
<jwhorto1> will do
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<agent_white> Might help you a bit with interviews. :)
<jwhorto1> I actually do appreciate the declination of help guys, especially RubyPanther and platzhirsch
<lethjakman> hrm...I'm missing iseq.h on osx. anyone know how to get that library?
<jwhorto1> thanks agent, im watching it now
<lethjakman> I'm using rbenv if that helps at all
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<RubyPanther> The part that was really awkward for me, since I have social anxiety, was emailing climate.org and then having to email them again a "nm sorry" letter
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<jwhorto1> have you tried RVM instead lethjakman?
<jwhorto1> nm sorry?
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<platzhirsch> jwhorto1: well, let us know how it went
<platzhirsch> I am off to bed, ciao
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<agent_white> gnight!
<RubyPanther> "I ran into this issue as well. It seems that Mavericks default headers for ruby 2.0 are out of place. By reinstalling my own version of 2.0.0 through rbenv it worked OOB"
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<jwhorto1> gnight, and thanks platz
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<jwhorto1> a differnet installation of ruby should work too, either manual or rvm lethjakman
<jwhorto1> what do you mean by the "nm" thing RubyPanther
<platzhirsch> nm = nevermind
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<jwhorto1> you retracted your email RubyPanther?
<RubyPanther> jwhorto1: lol you're still not straight on the .com/.org
<platzhirsch> no, as I understood it, he first emailed climate.ORG, then noticed .COM is the real one, so retracted the one to .ORG
<jwhorto1> oh, I see what you mean, you sent a log to .org
<jwhorto1> still feel like crap :(
* RubyPanther hugs jwhorto1, "I'm sure it will all work out."
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<jwhorto1> thanks RubyPanther
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<platzhirsch> jwhorto1: do they name your nickname?
<platzhirsch> s/name/know
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<jwhorto1> yes
<platzhirsch> :|
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<jwhorto1> If it comes up, I'll apologize to them as well. I'll send a log too, showing I didn't receive help., and hope they understand it was born from anxiety
<jwhorto1> If not, it's my fault, I'll bear it hard, as I truly like their org
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<platzhirsch> You can still apply at climate.org
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<RubyPanther> Well, it is a good play to stay and pretend you were just nervous, it establishes doubt in the full log
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<agent_white> I still can't tell if this a giant troll, or wat.
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<platzhirsch> agent_white: I don't think so
<lagweezle> What I miss?
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<RubyPanther> well, if nobody shows up at their office to make the pitch, then a little time wasted is all. OTOH, if it is really what it claims to be, some sort of industrial espionage, then it is worth that risk to prevent it
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<jwhorto1> No play here. But I don't disagree with RubyPanther in what he did... It's the moral thing to do
<agent_white> platzhirsch: Ohhh...
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<jwhorto1> Unfortunately I am on the wrong side of the situation
<agent_white> SOMEONE I CAN PAY YOU DOGECOIN TO TAKE DOWN THE NSA FOR ME?!
<jwhorto1> lol
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<jwhorto1> RubyPanther: can you report that?
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<agent_white> jwhorto1: It doesn't sound like there's a 'good side' to the situation?
<jwhorto1> jk agent_white
<agent_white> ;)
<jwhorto1> there isn't
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<platzhirsch> 100$ + bonus when done
<jwhorto1> Well, I mean for me
<g0bl1n> OT: I need some help to figure out what some kanji characters mean. Anyone from Japan here ?
<g0bl1n> OT: 山周
<jwhorto1> ^ the end of my chances
<agent_white> the first letter is a 3, you just need to turn it the right way.
<g0bl1n> :)
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<jwhorto1> wtb life rebase
<platzhirsch> lol PETA, they want to free you Panther
<RubyPanther> yeah, free me to the mountains to starve naturally lol
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<RubyPanther> I'd get eaten by panthers
<platzhirsch> RubyPanther: You have to write climate.com an email with 'just kidding, I just hate jwhorto1 and tried to sabotage the interview'
<platzhirsch> oh man, climate.com will come and let the feds shutdown this channel
<platzhirsch> it's all over now
* lagweezle utterly fails to make sense of the conversation(s) after reviewing four or so pages of history.
<agent_white> I'm still waiting on someone to take me up on the dogecoin for NSA takedown.
<RubyPanther> lagweezle: that's why I posted the gist
<lagweezle> g0bl1n: The first character is 'mountain' roughly. That looks more like Chinese, as it is missing the usual characters used in Japanese, unless it is just a name of something.
<RubyPanther> just for context
<lagweezle> RubyPanther: ooh! thankee
<platzhirsch> ok then, crazy thing.. don't overdo it
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<lagweezle> g0bl1n: Google translate claims that translates to "Hill Week" which I suppose could make sense...
<g0bl1n> lagweezle, yes, I could identify Mountain and Circunference/Lap/Circuit :)
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<lagweezle> g0bl1n: Any context on where this is from?
<g0bl1n> lagweezle, indeed. Its from a quiz
<jwhorto1> for sha in `git log --pretty=format:%H --author=jwhorto1 --since=2.hours`; do
<jwhorto1> git revert --no-edit $sha
<jwhorto1> done
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<jwhorto1> damn it, I thought that'd work
<lagweezle> g0bl1n: Heh. Not much context. ^^
<lagweezle> g0bl1n: Checking if a friend of mine is online.
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<g0bl1n> :)
<g0bl1n> lagweezle, the third symbol is KOK (meaning Head in an ancient dialect)
* agent_white giggles
<g0bl1n> lol
<g0bl1n> hacking quiz :) Those where in a STL file
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<RubyPanther> china "hill week head" About 2,130 results
<jwhorto1> git fetch origin
<jwhorto1> git reset --hard origin/master
<jwhorto1> ugh nothing works
<g0bl1n> RubyPanther, and nothing made sense, for the "hacking" quiz... :(
<agent_white> alt+f4
<agent_white> it works for my vidjagames
<RubyPanther> g0bl1n: what is the 3rd character?
<jwhorto1> df "self"
<g0bl1n> 1 sec, will paste the link :)
<g0bl1n> its the first one, kok http://tabish.freeshell.org/eeyek/script/
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<jwhorto1> can you OCR it, then translate?
<lagweezle> g0bl1n: Okay, so my chinese friend says those two characters are meaningless in that context.
<lagweezle> Oh. There is a third character? O.o
<RubyPanther> that just has an image, so I can't paste it
* lagweezle goes to peek at the link.
<g0bl1n> lagweezle, yes, check the link :) but its another script :)
<g0bl1n> kok (head)
<jwhorto1> image OCR :D
<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, how could I do it ?
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<g0bl1n> any hint ?
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<g0bl1n> linux here :)
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<g0bl1n> is there any service I can use to paste an image ?
<jwhorto1> then run it through google translate
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<g0bl1n> like paste.bin for images ?
<RubyPanther> It could be a name, it is three syllables
<lagweezle> Oh. :3
<jwhorto1> cuneiform - multi-language OCR system
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<jwhorto1> but looks like many are multi language
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<g0bl1n> ok, I have a PNG file, where can I upload it ? :)
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<lagweezle> RubyPanther: Okay, yeah, that is really weird.
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: cuneiform - multi-language OCR system doesnt help?
<jwhorto1> or am i totally off base on what youre trying to solve
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<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, this tech conference, we get quizes. This started with a file, that we could transform in an STL file, at it gave us the image above :)
<g0bl1n> ABCO is the UTF code for the KOK symbok in Meetei Mayek language. These guys are crazy on quizes :D
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<jwhorto1> I'm trying
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<g0bl1n> :)
<g0bl1n> Yamashu is the translation from Japanese...
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<jwhorto1> so
<jwhorto1> you're trying to find the language
<jwhorto1> or translation
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<g0bl1n> in Kanji, the individual characters mean Mountain and Circunference/lap/circuit. Then there's the KOK :)
<RubyPanther> I just got a thank you email from a company VP
<RubyPanther> g0bl1n: lap not week?
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<g0bl1n> yes
<jwhorto1> in jap it means
<jwhorto1> Hill week together
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<RubyPanther> google is saying it can be week or circumferential when used alone
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<jwhorto1> first part is deff jap for hill week--- second part is definately head
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<RubyPanther> I can't find this KOK in any of the charts
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<g0bl1n> yes :)
<jwhorto1> in sorry i meant chinese
<jwhorto1> where did you get the image from g0bl1n
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<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, its from a quiz, its a STL file
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<RubyPanther> I'm leaning towards, "your head is as big around as a mountain"
<g0bl1n> opened it with MeshLab (linux)
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<jwhorto1> it was given to you as is?
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<g0bl1n> now google translated 周 to Zhou (jap to en)
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: you dont have any additional information? what language, image origination (from a site?),
<RubyPanther> It probably means a circular linked list
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<g0bl1n> oohhhh
<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, no, that only file was given to us :)
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<g0bl1n> circular linked list... would fit on a hacking contest
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<lagweezle> Japanese, please, not 'jap'. :/
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<lagweezle> Unless you also use spic, gook, etc. :/
<g0bl1n> ok, sorry :)
<RubyPanther> I say "Brit"
<RubyPanther> my Japanese friend says "Nip"
<jwhorto1> lol sorry, just abbr
<jwhorto1> for language, not individ :(
<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: can it be a mix of languages?
<lagweezle> HmHmm. Is 'Brit' offensive? O.o
<jwhorto1> no
<RubyPanther> No, but if you call somebody Britbrit you might get slapped
<jwhorto1> lol
<lagweezle> Deservedly so, I would think. ^^
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<lagweezle> Ugh. I think I need to deploy an IRC server somewhere to test against.
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: btw here is a pdf where u can copy paste those http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UABC0.pdf
<jwhorto1> youll need firefox likely
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: the ABC0 on the rectangle around it is the unicode expression for the symbol inside
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<g0bl1n> yes, thanks, ABC0 is the UTF code ;)
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: and the abff is just the end of the Meitei Mayek unicode-- it doesnt mean anything
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<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, yes, I assumed it as nil
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: so it's from beggining to end in a sense (the left and right of the square) and the top and bottom is just the language name. inside is just the first lettter. The second letter is chinese meaning either: week, periphery, circumference, circuit, cycle, zhou dynasy, attentive, thoughtful, all, whole, all-around, circuit, help out, or all over
<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: I'm not convinced the first letter is 山
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: if you upload the first letter individually, it is not found
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<g0bl1n> google translate gives me "Mountain". From Japanese.
<g0bl1n> Its Kanji
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<lagweezle> What is the image link again?
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: right but thats only if the first letter actually is 山, which I dont think it is
<jwhorto1> original image lagweezle: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=35i0f0o&s=8#.UuxpGpBDveU
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<g0bl1n> the problem is that in Kanji, different combinations seem to mean different things
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<jwhorto1> the first letter does not have a hanging bit on the left as 山 does
<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: unless you;re certain, I think the first letter is something else
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<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, wow, another thing... can this mean anything ?!?? http://i60.tinypic.com/12179d4.png
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<g0bl1n> can you see the symbols there ?! I rotated the image
<lagweezle> yama isn't always written with the first vertical stroke always extending beyond the horizontal stroke.
<lagweezle> They do like puzzles, don't they ...
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<g0bl1n> man... :D
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<lagweezle> I'm also wondering if the thing inside the ring is five hash marks and a top/bottom thing, or a crate / cage
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: idk about the s looking character, but the line is definitely a "joining", or underline
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<lagweezle> huh ... something poetic about 'mountain river'; 山の川(yama no kawa) or 山川(yama kawa)
<jwhorto1> I am just not convinced it's 山
<g0bl1n> the original STL File is here :) http://www.sendspace.com/file/y9xjls MeshLab applications opens it.
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<jwhorto1> lagweezle: the thing in the box is definitelty meetei mayek for "kok" meaning head
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<lagweezle> Oh. ^^
<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, yes, I agree on that too.
<jwhorto1> that abc0 on the left of the rectangle is the unicode transcription for it
<g0bl1n> yes
<jwhorto1> it's the first "letter"
<jwhorto1> and on the left
<g0bl1n> yes
<jwhorto1> abff, is the last
<jwhorto1> nill
<g0bl1n> exactly
<jwhorto1> and on the bottom
<jwhorto1> something to do with underlining or joining
<jwhorto1> and the second letter http://unicode-table.com/en/search/?q=abff
<jwhorto1> oops
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<jwhorto1> and the second letter is is chinese meaning either: week, periphery, circumference, circuit, cycle, zhou dynasy, attentive, thoughtful, all, whole, all-around, circuit, help out, or all over
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<lagweezle> I wonder if it is less literal, and more of a ... "from beginning to end"
<jwhorto1> that is my assumption
<lagweezle> The two meetei mayak bits, that is
<jwhorto1> and with "head" in the center
<jwhorto1> deep
<jwhorto1> but the botttom transcription
<jwhorto1> idk what the "s" is
<jwhorto1> and idk what the first letter of the whole thing is
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<jwhorto1> god damn it g0bl1n you have me stuck wanting to solve this puzzle so bad
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<g0bl1n> LOL !!!
<lagweezle> I get that thought from a teacher who is fluent in hebrew and her comment on the name of God being literally one thing, but also intentionally is the first and last letters of the alphabet, signifying that god is, well, translated to English, "everything, from A to Z."
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<jwhorto1> I think the "s" is 1, according to http://www.omniglot.com/writing/manipuri.htm
<jwhorto1> 1, joining
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<jwhorto1> from beginning to end, 1 joining head
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<jwhorto1> is there something on top of the box?
<jwhorto1> or on the sides?
<jwhorto1> when rotated g0bl1n
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<g0bl1n> no
<g0bl1n> nothing more. Zoomed in, out, looked at the mesh, nothing seems to be there
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<g0bl1n> wow, jwhorto1 the ##japanese channel has a translator.
<g0bl1n> doing:
<g0bl1n> .t 山周
<g0bl1n> it returns: Mountain lap
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<RubyPanther> g0bl1n: could it be a number puzzle? Is the order KOK 山周 ?
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<RubyPanther> a&b&c == 64 or fff9 or binary 1000000
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<RubyPanther> oops, no
<RubyPanther> fff9 is |
<RubyPanther> & is 0x0040
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<jwhorto1> The third part, the boxed character, I have come to find that the center character is Meetei Mayek http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UABC0.pdf
<jwhorto1> It is the first character. It literally trasnlates to "head". In Unicode, it is transcribed ABC0:http://unicode-table.com/en/search/?q=abc0
<jwhorto1> Which is what is written on the left of the enclosing square.
<jwhorto1> On the right of the enclosing square, ABFF, is the final Unicode character for Meetei Mayek. It is blank, or nil. http://unicode-table.com/en/search/?q=abff
<jwhorto1> On the bottom of the enclosing rectangle, what looks like an "s" I believe is the numeral 4 or 1 in Meetei Mayek, and the line is "joining" or underline: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/manipuri.htm
<jwhorto1> So the final character is something along the lines of: For(4) joining the mind(head) beginning(abc0) to end(abff).
<jwhorto1> Or One(1) head(mind?) joining the beginning(abc0) to the end (abff).
<jwhorto1> I am STILL not convinced that we know the firs character
<jwhorto1> And the second means something from here (many translations to the bottom right-- but its meaning likely depends on the first character) http://translate.google.com/#auto/en/%E5%91%A8
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<jwhorto1> I am literally obsessed with finding the answer to this
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<agent_white> >>"%04x" % "山".unpack("U*")[0]
<eval-in> agent_white => "5c71" (https://eval.in/96858)
<agent_white> >>"%04x" % "周".unpack("U*")[0]
<eval-in> agent_white => "5468" (https://eval.in/96859)
<agent_white> iono what I'm doing, noticed you were doing encoding and I'm learning about it!
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<pontiki> encodings make me cry
<agent_white> The term 'little endian' makes me giggle though
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<jwhorto1> I will pay .2 BTC if someone figures that out
<g0bl1n> :) encodings are a sub-world
<jwhorto1> And you sucked me in
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<g0bl1n> hehe
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<CaptainJet> .2 BTC
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<CaptainJet> that's over $100 right now isn't it?
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<agent_white> So if endianness is determined by the BOM (which is optional)... if the BOM isn't present, what's the default endian?
<lagweezle> Does Shan Zhou ring any bells?
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<jwhorto1> its $168
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<jwhorto1> let's see if that bounty attracts any answers
<g0bl1n> Shan Zhou ?
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<lagweezle> Mmmhmm.
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<lagweezle> If I put yama and the other character on different lines that ends up shown.
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<nycjv321> Anyone have issues installing nokogiri on fedora 64bit edition? running into the following issue http://pastebin.com/m4kvLnQh.
<nycjv321> seems to be related to utf.
<pontiki> those can be ignored, it's usually something in the documentation generation.
<nycjv321> ah okay
<pontiki> line 3 is what you should pay attention to
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<nycjv321> it seems to freeze though
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<pontiki> it's HUGE
<nycjv321> I've waited like 10 minutes for it to finish
<nycjv321> pontiki: hmmmm okay
<pontiki> you can skip the documentation altogether
<pontiki> is this a server?
<nycjv321> no personal machine
<agent_white> nycjv321: Update rdoc?
<nycjv321> agent_white: why?
<pontiki> well.. do you want or need local gem documentation?
<nycjv321> oh nvm :)
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<nycjv321> I see what your saying agent_white new rdoc would fix this issue?
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<agent_white> nycjv321: Iono, I ran into that issue once and that's what I did.
<pontiki> not necessarily
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<pontiki> although 10+ minutes seems like a lot...
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<pontiki> i don't think i've ever waited that long
<pontiki> but still
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<nycjv321> I'm rebuilding with --no-rdoc
* pontiki nods
<agent_white> Haha, the post below that one I found was "nokogiri install times insanely long"
<pontiki> i put it in my ~/.gemrc
<nycjv321> So "Successfully installed nokogiri-1.6.1" means the libs have been built and the .gem is there?
<agent_white> If nothing blew up, maybe! :D
<nycjv321> lol
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<nycjv321> I think it blew up.
<agent_white> :/.... :D
<pontiki> once you see that, it's installed
<pontiki> the rest is doc processing
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<RubyPanther> I just make sure ~/.gemrc has gem: --no-rdoc --no-ri
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<pontiki> you may need to uninstall it first...
<jwhorto1> does running "gem list" show it?
* lagweezle sighs
<nycjv321> I've ran gem uninstall nokogiri
<nycjv321> lagweezle: why the sigh?
<jwhorto1> you should be using bundle
<jwhorto1> are you not?
<pontiki> not necessarily, jwhorto1
<nycjv321> lol is that why lagweezle sighed?
<lagweezle> Any of you know where to find descriptions of what the capistrano tasks are supposed to bbe doing? Like, a detailed description so you actually know the meaning?
<nycjv321> I should* I guess.
<lagweezle> Oh. Heh. No. Not why I sighed. ^^;
<nycjv321> this is just simple ruby app.
<jwhorto1> ok
<nycjv321> lagweezle: phew! :)
<pontiki> which version, lagweezle ?
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<jwhorto1> and gem install nokogiri does what?
<lagweezle> v3
<pontiki> i'm finding figuring out the 3.x version really difficult
<havenwood> 山周
<lagweezle> pontiki: v3. v2 has many but not all listed on the wiki.
<nycjv321> jwhorto1: it freezes at
<pontiki> and discovering that a lot of stuff is actually in SSHKit
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<nycjv321> unable to convert "\xF8" to UTF-8 in conversion from ASCII-8BIT to UTF-8 for ext/nokogiri/tmp/x86_64-redhat-linux/ports/libxml2/2.8.0/libxml2-2.8.0/entities.c, skipping
<nycjv321> but it seems to be installed but I get an error when I require it.
<pontiki> what is the require error?
<lagweezle> pontiki: I can't compare as I've never mucked with v2, but I am finding it frustrating.
<nycjv321> "LoadError: no such file to load -- racc/parser.rb" -> /me goes to google
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<pontiki> also, nycjv321, if your project is actually using bundler, jwhorto1 is precisely right
<RubyPanther> we're supposed to know the meaning of the methods we call, what?!
<nycjv321> RubyPanther: lol! :)
<nycjv321> RubyPanther: that would make things simple why?!?
<pontiki> no, the objects receiving the message need to know what they mean
<RubyPanther> before 'deploy:assets:precompile', 'deploy:symlink_shared' # I'd rather do this after deploy:update_code, but no
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<jwhorto1> nycjv321: run gem uninstal nokogiri
<RubyPanther> I consider it lucky just when my deploy script works, understanding it all is a lot to ask
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: then run gem instal nokogiri --no-ri --no-rdoc
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: then print the output here
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<nycjv321> jwhorto1: okay guys thanks for pointing out that it was just a doc generation error.
<pontiki> no, paste the output and give us the link to it
<nycjv321> I actually had a second error but that is becuase I needed require racc
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: its working now?
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<nycjv321> looks like a bug with nokogiri
<nycjv321> jwhorto1: yep
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<jwhorto1> nycjv321: good :D
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: what was the error?
<lagweezle> At this point, I'm giving up pretty much and reading the source code ... which is going to be frustrating.
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<jwhorto1> lagweezle: good luck ;)
<pontiki> the source is the only truth
<lagweezle> jwhorto1: Thank you! I may need it.
<nycjv321> jwhorto1: https://github.com/rubinius/rubinius/issues/2632 -> missing racc
<lagweezle> "Use the Source, Luke!"
<nycjv321> lol
<jwhorto1> lagweezle: redoc it for us :)
<lagweezle> redoc?
<nycjv321> sometimes the source is too confusing to provide any truth ;)
<lagweezle> nycjv321: and how!
<pontiki> nevertheless
<jwhorto1> lagweezle: I mean give us some proper documentation of anything you see missing
<lagweezle> OH!
<nycjv321> lagweezle: sometimes people use the job security design pattern when they write their code ;)
<pontiki> no one ever said the truth would be easy, make you happy, nor be enlightening
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<lagweezle> Aye.
<lagweezle> nycjv321: bwahaha so true. I hate those people.
<nycjv321> lagweezle: exactly
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<nycjv321> I work with a bunch of Java developers and man I can't wait till I can run a project in Ruby
<pontiki> especially when you are cursing the idiot who wrote the code and find out it was you
<nycjv321> pontiki: lol
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: to fix that gem install racc
<pontiki> if it hasn't happened to you yet, you aren't trying hard enough
<nycjv321> jwhorto1: yep
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: again, having a bundler would be beautiful for this kind of thing ;)
<pontiki> oh, java, i feel your pain, dear
<pontiki> a friend of mine just sent me a class assignment the had to write in Java
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<nycjv321> jwhorto1: I've only used bundler for writing simple (very simple) rails apps. I'll check it how to integrate it outside of rails
<pontiki> i didn't want to discourage them
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<nycjv321> pontiki: I helped some dude with ruby code last week. That wasn't the bad part. It was written in serbian ;)
<nycjv321> jwhorto1: thanks!
<nycjv321> I'll also check out the main page.
<pontiki> complete with accent chars in variable names?
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: no problem. sorry you have to work with java monkies :(
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<pontiki> wait, wut? someone is asking about using bundler without rails??
<nycjv321> lol. my team is great. but the code base we inherited... (cuts wrist*)
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: luckily I work in c++, but I run rails all day in my own projects
<jwhorto1> nycjv321: everyone inherits a writ cutting code bade :/
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<pontiki> sounds like jwhorto1 has a cold in their fingers
<lagweezle> SOB ... how do you regenerate RDoc for all installed gems? O.o
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<nycjv321> lagweezle: gem rdoc --all --overwrite I think?
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<lagweezle> pontiki: That bit about not trying hard enough if you haven't despised your code ... I've run across that multiple times. Pretty much, if you don't hate the code you wrote a month ago for how horrible, etc. it is, you aren't pushing yourself hard enough type of thing. I agree a great deal with the sentiment. :)
<agent_white> ^ And then go on vacation. Should be done after you are back.
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<pontiki> lagweezle: it's mostly a tease, but it also has some truth in it
<lagweezle> agent_white: I've got a pretty sexy laptop. It doesn't take too long, from what I remember.
<nycjv321> I usually just delete the code and rewrite it after revist it hahaha just kidding.
<RubyPanther> Ruby source is supposed to be easy to read
<lagweezle> hehehe
* nycjv321 says that while looking over 4 month old ruby code that he can actually understand read
<nycjv321> understand/read*
<pontiki> RubyPanther: supposed to be. there are people who can obfuscate *anything*
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<lagweezle> God ... that code I had to deal with while I was working at Yahoo! ...
<pontiki> One of ruby's neat features, chaining, is despised by many for not being readable
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<lagweezle> 20-something global variables. a function named doit, then another named doit2
<RubyPanther> The last straw before I switched from Perl to Ruby, I looked at code I'd written less than a year earlier, and I was like, "what was this idiot thinking, what does this code do?" I mean, I couldn't even recognize it as mine, much less understand it. That's when I checked and found out English Ruby books were being published
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<jwhorto1> pontiki: aye
<pontiki> and there's a huge diff between readable and comprehension. metaprogramming spoils a lot
<nycjv321> If Perl adopted OO earlier... just saying :)
<agent_white> pontiki: I thought chaining was despised due to LoD?
<RubyPanther> Now I look at Ruby code I wrote 2,3,4 even 5 years ago... it is just bad, that is all. It is just ugly and wrong, but I can see what it does (with one exception)
<pontiki> agent_white: that all depends on what and how you chain
<pontiki> but there's nothing specific to chaining that violates LoD
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<nycjv321> Dude this is funny. I wrote (what I think) pretty clean code for this craigslist parser I wrote 4 months ago. The app and code makes sense. but all the css selectors I wrote are broken since the site structure on craigslist has changed
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<agent_white> pontiki: Ah I meant as in chaining 'non-concrete code'? Not sure how to term that... but I'm meaning code that's more prone to change than a stdlib class.
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<nycjv321> now that I know aout unit testing I will need to write some specs to better understand what is broken.
<RubyPanther> https://gist.github.com/rubypanther/3b1d42c23ac5a6734285 this is the only Ruby I wrote that I can't really figure out the math I was using
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<RubyPanther> I rarely get drunk enough to do math that strangely
<pontiki> agent_white: hum, guess i don't know what you mean, then
<agent_white> RubyPanther: You were pretty ruthless on #line7
<pontiki> certainly can chain methdods for core and stdlib classes...
<pontiki> ppl do it with String#gsub all the damn time
<RubyPanther> I know like wtf, I love #inject but still
<lagweezle> How cute ... it dies on io-console ... -.-
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<nycjv321> looks like the intern they hired at craigslist to redsign the frontend knows a little more about webstandards then the previous guy
<agent_white> pontiki: Oh it was a chapter from POODR on 'how to avoid LoD' via delegation. Like you, she said chaining wasn't bad (despite LoD's 'only immediate neighbors) when used on concrete-classes that weren't prone to change, like a standard-library of a language
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<lagweezle> At least it can find the capistrano docs now ...
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<agent_white> nycjv321: Iono... "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." ;)
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<pontiki> agent_white: *any* technique can be misued
<nycjv321> agent_white: well now my parser is broken :(
<pontiki> i cut my programming teeth on lisp, and am prone to viewing most problems via a functional programming lense
* nycjv321 curses at that intern
<pontiki> so i tend to go overboard sometimes with chaining
<nycjv321> I am a little ashamed with my usage of xpath on this though lol :)
<RubyPanther> I don't even like functional and I like chaining
* lagweezle stares at line 7 and feels his brain melting.
<nycjv321> I usually stay away from chaining not sure why...
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<pontiki> but i most often do it to work down a problem and then refactor it
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<RubyPanther> lagweezle: I know, right? I was trying to double-check my logic the next day, and I gave up and just tested with data, and the results were correct, so... I use it
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<agent_white> pontiki: Ahhhhh :) Yeah again, just something I read, but have yet to really experience. I'm just a sponge at the moment ;)
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<lagweezle> RubyPanther: Whatever you were on ... Secure a good supply of it? Maybe?
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<pontiki> just remember a sponge has to be squeezed out to remain useful
<RubyPanther> it was just beer and weed, honest
<nycjv321> pontiki: that was Mr. Miyagi'ish of you
<agent_white> pontiki: Aye! I forget that quite a bit ;)
<pontiki> wax on, wax off
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<RubyPanther> yeah but then later he teaches the drum, and that keeps looping
<pontiki> i don't remember that
<agent_white> So... `native endians`... amiriteguiz?
<RubyPanther> yeah, #2 sucked
<nycjv321> RubyPanther: did u mean #3?
<RubyPanther> maybe
<nycjv321> 2 wasn't "that" bad
<nycjv321> imho
<nycjv321> agent_white: that made my nite (or morning :) ). thank you
* nycjv321 dies of laughter.
<agent_white> ;D
<pontiki> so, guise
<pontiki> you know you can write comments in code?
<RubyPanther> omg! roflcopter!!!!
<pontiki> do you know what sort of comments you're supposed to write?
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<agent_white> Good ones
<pontiki> well, okay
<pontiki> but what's "good"?
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<agent_white> Mmm... tropical jelly beans
<pontiki> here's my philosophy: code is a letter to our future selves. we want to make sure we understand why we did something in the future
<RubyPanther> I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote it, but I remember what I was feeling... it felt so clean, and perfect, and logical
<pontiki> so comments explain our choices, and why we did this an not something else
<Tobarja> foo.readFromFileAndCreateArray() //reads from file and creates array <-- saw one of these yesterday
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<pontiki> so comments like "i am high on 20 pounds of purple kush writing this. i feel so great, it just works!" are actually rather useful
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<RubyPanther> Like Uncle Bob said, you may think you code better with alcohol... you don't
<agent_white> Well you do... you're just limited by the fragility of Ballmer's Peak
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<lagweezle> Huh.
<nycjv321> oh snap!
<agent_white> http://xkcd.com/323/ ?
<nycjv321> lagweezle: do you not know of Ballmer's Peak?
<pontiki> lol
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<RubyPanther> TripWire used to buy kegs every Friday
<Tobarja> One day I imagine English being replaced by XKCD references, sort of like that old TNG episode "Darmok".
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<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: its gettings some views, but still no answers https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443344
<lagweezle> nycjv321: Sorry. That was a half thought.
<jwhorto1> $168 and no input :(
<lagweezle> Found out io-console was derpy and 0.3 was only partially installed.
<pontiki> hat guy and beret guy at the book store
* nycjv321 loves rubymines auto formatting capabilities :)
<pontiki> Tobarja: it is uncanny how often randall has just the perfect thing to say about a situation i find myself in
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<lagweezle> I should be asleep...
<nycjv321> lagweezle: me too!
<nycjv321> 2am here woot woot
<lagweezle> only 22:50 here, but I'm starting to really feel it. Tha's what I get for waking up at 5:30.
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<agent_white> 23:53, but I still can't read these ID3 tags. Won't sleep till I do >:D
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<lagweezle> Right. I'ma go shower and such and crash, before I get keyboard face.
<havenwood> friday \o/
<lagweezle> good #{time_of_day} folks!
<lagweezle> havenwood: indeed!
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<lagweezle> Hopefully I have energy / motivation to practice w/the airbrush tomorrow. ^^;
<lagweezle> anyhoo, g'night and such!
<nycjv321> night!
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* nycjv321 made his first gem :D (not published)
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<nycjv321> I just super broke my ruby installation
* nycjv321 lols
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<agent_white> I find out someone else knows how I feel about reading these ID3 tags. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/a-spec-tacular-failure.html
<nycjv321> so gem's can't contain spaces?
<nycjv321> isn't it 2014?
* nycjv321 palms face at his broken ruby installation
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<pontiki> in the gem name? no
<agent_white> nycjv321: You aren't one of those people who uses spaces in filenames... are you...?!
<pontiki> what's wrong with you anyway? space in the file system are anathema!
<RubyPanther> egads, that isn't year dependent I'd hope
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<nycjv321> agent_white: maybe (with dr. evil grin)
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<agent_white> nycjv321: Well... I... I think I need some time to think about my life.
<nycjv321> dude I thought a gem name could contain spaces otherwise I usually just use underscores
<nycjv321> like I don't sign my name first_last lol :)
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<pontiki> what makes you think gems should have human style names?
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* nycjv321 facepalms
<agent_white> nycjv321: It's ok, we're only furious.
<agent_white> ;)
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<lxsameer> how can i get a list of gems name which are installed under an specific group in my gemfile
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<pontiki> programmatically, lxsameer ?
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<pontiki> because otherwise just open the Gemfile and look
<lxsameer> pontiki: ye via code
<pontiki> not sure specifically, but you can do stuff with Bundler::Gems
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<lxsameer> pontiki: thanks
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* nycjv321 wonders if he should submit his crappy gem -> 'monkey_patches' :}
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<shredding> My bundle install is stuck at "Using mini_portile (0.5.2)"
<shredding> As part of nokogiri, what may be the reason?
<pontiki> it's installing (or trying) the one after
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<pontiki> nokogiri takes a long time to install as it has several native extensions that need to compile
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<shredding> Ah, okay.
<shredding> Then I'm maybe to fast.
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<shredding> pontiki: you were right
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<new> Can you run a phantomjs watir on heroku?
<pontiki> on heroku??
<pontiki> explain this concept to me
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<new> need to screen scrape javascript loaded content
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<centrx> new, I don't see how you could do that on Heroku, if you need a screen running a browser
<pontiki> you can run nodejs apps
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<pontiki> i'm not sure phantomjs qualifies
<pontiki> or how it would be hooked together
<new> i was running phantomjs locally without a browser
<pontiki> that's the point, really; it keeps you headless, no need for a browser
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<new> pontiki: im confused. so what is the best way if i need to scrape that content in production?
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<Radar> new: run it on your own server
<pontiki> new, your concept could work. i have no idea how to implement it on heroku
<Radar> new: I don't think Heroku will allow you to do that.
<pontiki> screen scraping, js or not, is inherently brittle
<pontiki> if you republish someone else's info, it might even be a copyright and TOS violation
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<new> pontiki: it is but I just wrote a decent scraper and just wanna be able to scale it up daily for private use.
<agent_white> [1,2,3] is little endian, and [3,2,1] big endian, right?
<new> and its all public information that is data driven...not copywrite stuff
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<new> Radar: how could I run it?
<new> if I dont own a server*
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<pontiki> new, while the information may be public, the collection and presentation might not be
<Radar> new: get a server
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<new> pontiki: but if its for private use?
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<pontiki> not my axe to gring, new
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<pontiki> run it at your own risk
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<pontiki> but do at least read their TOS
<new> im sending it directly to the company I am scraping with my info...applying for a job
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<pontiki> and you've okayed this with them?
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<centrx> agent_white, Endianness is usually in reference to processor architecture. Not sure it makes sense with Ruby arrays.
<new> no but keeping it all behind a password wall
<pontiki> good luck.
<pontiki> again, not my axe to grind. you take your own risks.
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<agent_white> centrx: Oh I was just using it as an example, but I figured out what they meant in the wiki :)
<new> definitley, but I appreciate the heads up pontiki
<new> thanks Radar
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<pontiki> agent_white: endian refers to where you start counting bits in a computer word
<agent_white> I'm needing to read bit flags from an ID3 byte, and they said it was in big endian notation. :)
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<pontiki> agent_white: it has nothing at all to do with arrays
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<agent_white> pontiki: Wait what? I thought memory addresses are generally sequential for an array?
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<agent_white> As in if I declare an array [1,2,3], I -should- have those slots sequency in memory.
<pontiki> forex, intel chips are little endian. the old mac 68000 were big endian, which resulted in lots of problems when trying to transfer data
<pontiki> agent_white: yes, and if you specify [3,2,1] they will occur in that order in memory
<pontiki> but it still is only memory references to objects, irrespective of the content of the object
<pontiki> [:big, "eyed", 7] would have the same sequential ordering
<pontiki> again, endianness deals with memory words
<agent_white> Ah, well not irrespective right? As in if it's little endian, the item taking the smallest amount of memory in that array would be in the first memory slot
<pontiki> and basically how bytes are stacked into that work
<pontiki> nooooooooooo
<centrx> That is not what "most significant byte" means
<centrx> It is just ordering
<agent_white> Ohhhh!@!!
<centrx> 123456789
<centrx> Most significant digit is 1
<agent_white> pontiki: Nvm, Big endian is MSB is the smallest address
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<agent_white> Because it has a value of 1000000, roger that.
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<agent_white> So in big endian, it would be in the first slot in memory.
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<agent_white> I dunno why you would do little endian, I would assume you would want to begin computing the hardest number first? I'll leave that for another day...
<pontiki> ...
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<agent_white> Soz. I'm trying to write an ID3 parser and reading these tags are difficult.
<pontiki> there is a *lot* (or at least used to be) culture wars about this, which is where the entire endian terminology stemmed from
<pontiki> liberally stealing from jonathon swift
<pontiki> and egg breakers
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<agent_white> Oh no shit?
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<pontiki> it was a chapter in gulliver's travels
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<agent_white> Never read it! Or at least not yet! :P
<pontiki> do read it. swift was the orignal epic satyricist
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<pontiki> lots of words in common (or somewhat common) use from gulliver's travels, in fact
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* pontiki falls off the net into bed
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<agent_white> Bah... I'm nearly there as well. My brain hurts.
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<apeiros> somebody know whether (and how) I can do the equivalent of `lsof -i:$PORT`? that is, find the pid of the executable which is holding a port open?
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<khoury> Hello
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<khoury> Does anyone know any good resource for learning how an ad server works?
<khoury> Tutorials, book or anything?
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<jack_rabbit> I'm pretty sure ad servers' infrastructure is too diverse.
<jack_rabbit> for a comprehensive tutorial or book, that is.
<Hanmac1> ad server? like in advertising?
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<apeiros> khoury: request for ad comes in, server serves ad? :)
<khoury> hehe... no shit!?
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<waxjar> you forgot the step where they squeeze all personal information out of the request and store it for later analysis :p
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<khoury> Hanmac1: yes, serving a website or other client
<Hanmac> ad server does not work for me in my browser ;P
<khoury> jack_rabbit: why would an ad server be so complicated to write a book on? There are books on pretty much everything we know about the universe, no? :p
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<jack_rabbit> khoury, because they rely heavily on infrastructure that is not concrete to be effective.
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<khoury> Well, come on, doesnt that also depend havily on the
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<khoury> * the size of this thing?
<khoury> I was thinking more like a beginners guide almost. Ad Servers for dummies
<jack_rabbit> Sure. That doesn't aid any book being written.
<khoury> Have you ever written an ad server?
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<jack_rabbit> nope.
<jack_rabbit> I've worked on the infrastructure behind ad-servers, though.
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<khoury> Yeah, well there you go. They can be complicated and less complicated. You can write books on complicated subjects, and you can write books on less comlicated subjects. As easy as that.
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<Hanmac> "i am sorry, but advertising is not supported in your browser"
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<jack_rabbit> I'm just saying, an ad server isn't anything but a regular web server without its backend
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<Hanmac> jack_rabbit: with nsa voodoo inside ;P
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<jack_rabbit> Hanmac, depending on where you work...
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* apeiros fails to see how an ad-server is complicated
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<apeiros> I can see how aspects of it can be complicated depending on how far up you want to scale
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<apeiros> but the basic principle?
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<jack_rabbit> basic principle: deliver ads to customers
<AlexRussia> who say 'ads'?
<bleak> americans
<AlexRussia> lol
<shevy> greedy people
<AlexRussia> shevy: Hi
<shevy> die
<shevy> I mean
<shevy> hi
<AlexRussia> shevy: no
<AlexRussia> shevy: is impossible
<AlexRussia> shevy: XD
<shevy> I MISTYPED
<bleak> death is certain
<shevy> bleak not for cancer cells!
<AlexRussia> bleak: ahah
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<apeiros> bleak: only for you mere mortals, tsk…
<AlexRussia> shevy: now i know, how to used post in sinatra with html form XD
<AlexRussia> shevy: hey, markdown supported make forms?
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> no
<AlexRussia> shevy: (
<bleak> mere mortal :(
<shevy> the whole point of markdown is to write elegant things that get some basic formatting
<AlexRussia> y
<waxjar> just require your users to type their post requests out in curl :D
<shevy> !!!
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<AlexRussia> waxjar: ahahaha
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<AlexRussia> waxjar: how to? XD
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<AlexRussia> shevy: what you site me possible look?
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<plotter> i broke up with ruby for python again
<AlexRussia> plotter: lol
<plotter> i found myself one day inserting colons instead of do end statements
<plotter> and said what the fuck am I Doing
<plotter> and never looked back
<plotter> the whitespace doesnt even bother me anymore i do it naturally from good coding practices
<shevy> AlexRussia what site?
<AlexRussia> shevy: look you pm
<shevy> I don't quite get what you are trying to ask
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<AlexRussia> shevy: i write in your pm.
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<shevy> You look at sites... ok ...
<shevy> "what your sites i'm a possible look? with markdown"
<shevy> yeah and I still dont understand it
<shevy> you look at sites with markdown???
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<AlexRussia> shevy: no, you say, you dont used haml, i have look, how to you used markdown for make siteXD
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<shevy> I told you before, via kramdown
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<shevy> some gems use markdown files for their documentation
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<Hanmac> shevy ruby itself used md files too
<shevy> cool
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<shevy> AlexRussia you see, markdown is everywhere
<AlexRussia> shevy: where?
<AlexRussia> shevy: **Where?**
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<Hanmac> shevy & AlexRussia https://github.com/ruby/ruby/commit/87855a00a856672afef7ab87a47ee10a02e71199 "* README -> README.md: [DOC] Format README with Markdown"
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<AlexRussia> Hanmac: hah
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<shevy> cool
<shevy> last commit an hour ago
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<shevy> module_function :cd
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<shevy> I forgot what this does in a module
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<shevy> is that the same as a def self. inside that module?
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<shevy> for an existing method
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<shevy> (in that module)
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<mrfoto> i have an app that is instantiating Strings like crazy and leaking memory horribly. How can I figure out what’s instantiating them?
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<mrfoto> ruby 2.1
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<AlexRussia> i wait ruby 2.1 in my distro (
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<waxjar> mrfoto: simplest thing i can think of is monkey-patching String#initialize to print whatever #caller returns.
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<AlexRussia> hey, mens
<AlexRussia> Heroku is good?
<AlexRussia> What is?
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<benjaminbaka1> #join #podofo
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<mrfoto> waxjar: fiddling around but ain't helpin much
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<waxjar> mrfoto: maybe you can store the arrays in a Hash, so you can easily count them: $thingy = Hash.new(0); $thingy[caller] +=1.
<mrfoto> no i tried that and i can see who the caller is and there is nothing going on there
<mrfoto> for some reason it's not garbage collected
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<waxjar> you must be holding a reference to it somewhere
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<waxjar> >> "foo" "bar"
<eval-in> waxjar => "foobar" (https://eval.in/96896)
<waxjar> :o
<Hanmac> waxjar do you know how ruby parses this?
<Hanmac> >> "foo#{"baz"}bar"
<eval-in> Hanmac => "foobazbar" (https://eval.in/96897)
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<waxjar> isnt that just interpolation?
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<Hanmac> waxjar:
<Hanmac> >> RubyVM::InstructionSequence.compile('"foo#{"baz"}bar"').disasm.lines[2]
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<shevy> >> "foo#{ "baz"}bar"
<eval-in> shevy => "foobazbar" (https://eval.in/96898)
<shevy> hah Hanmac
<shevy> >> RubyVM
<eval-in> shevy => RubyVM (https://eval.in/96899)
<shevy> >> RubyVM::InstructionSequence
<eval-in> shevy => RubyVM::InstructionSequence (https://eval.in/96900)
<shevy> >> RubyVM::InstructionSequence.compile 'bla'
<eval-in> shevy => <RubyVM::InstructionSequence:<compiled>@<compiled>> (https://eval.in/96901)
<shevy> >> RubyVM::InstructionSequence.compile('bla').disasm
<eval-in> shevy => "== disasm: <RubyVM::InstructionSequence:<compiled>@<compiled>>==========\n0000 trace 1 ( 1)\n0002 putself \n0003 opt_send_simple <c ... (https://eval.in/96902)
<shevy> hmmm
<shevy> if I were the bot owner
<shevy> I would remove RubyVM
<Hanmac> >>RubyVM::InstructionSequence.compile('"foo#{"baz"}bar"').disasm.lines[2]
<eval-in> Hanmac => "0002 putstring \"foobazbar\"\n" (https://eval.in/96903)
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<Hanmac> ah now works
<Hanmac> waxjar: compare it to:
<Hanmac> >>puts RubyVM::InstructionSequence.compile('"foo#{4}bar"').disasm.lines[2..-2]
<eval-in> Hanmac => 0002 putobject "foo" ... (https://eval.in/96904)
<Hanmac> waxjar: the answer of the riddle is: if there is only string literals inside string interpolation, the parser itself can solv it for you
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<waxjar> that's p nice, but im not too sure what all of that means :p
<shevy> hehehe
<shevy> waxjar is so nice
<shevy> he worded the "nobody understands that shit Hanmac!!!" into a cute way
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<shevy> Hanmac, you need to simplify for us lowlives man
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<shevy> apples and bananas, that's what it is all about
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<shevy> I hate rewrites...
* Hanmac will create a fruit that is both an apple and a banana ... just to troll the others ,P
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<apeiros> nice, my method (pure ruby) to get a PNGs dimensions is ~6x faster than rmagick
<shevy> hehehe
<shevy> that's when overengineering kicks back
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<shevy> you could create a project called apemagick
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<shevy> Motto: "even apes are faster than rmagick"
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<prateekp> how to strip off the unwanted characters in http://algorithm.daqwest.com/read?ad=http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/computersciencetheory/radix.html
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<apeiros> prateekp: tell your browser to read it as windows-latin1
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<Hanmac> prateekp: the chars are no unwanted ... the website is only to dump to show the currect encoding
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<prateekp> Hanmac: how this encoding can be read
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<Hanmac> prateekp: the source page cprogramming.com does it correct like <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> ...
<Hanmac> prateekb: daqwest has shitty html ... it is broken, unfinish (nearly 50% that is needed is missing)
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<prateekp> Hanmac : on daqwest, only main content of the website is displayed
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<Hanmac> prateekp: that is not the problem ... the problem is that all important html tags like <html> <head> <body> etc are missing in daqwest ... you should be happy that the browser did show it instead of throwing an exception
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<prateekp> Hanmac : ok ... the main content should be enclosed in these tags
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* Hanmac will not teaching html beginner courses here
<shevy> anyone of you has written some ruby code to rename titles of terminal/tabs ?
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<pontiki> in shell...
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<shevy> :(
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<pontiki> still, should work
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<pontiki> the magic string is "\033]0;HI THERE, SHEVY\007"
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<pontiki> 0 is the window title, 1 would be first tab, etc, i think
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<shevy> hmm
<pontiki> or maybe just current tab
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<AlexRussia> how to look all commits for file(git)?
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<obfuscated> Hi, I'm trying to improve the sample ruby code in the dialog for syntax highlight colour setup in the codeblocks, but I know nothing about ruby. Would someone familiar with the language be willing to post 10-20-30 lines of ruby code using almost all different elements available in ruby (operators, identifiers, regex, etc)?
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<shevy> got a question http://pastie.org/8688718 how do I call the method of the included module in a class method?
<pontiki> AlexRussia: try git blame?
<AlexRussia> pontiki: blame?
<pontiki> AlexRussia: blame?
<pontiki> seriously ask the question you want to ask
<AlexRussia> pontiki: i have find every commits, ehere changed one file
<mrfoo> obfuscated: Something like this maybe: http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/ruby/
<AlexRussia> where*
<shevy> obfuscated is there a collaborative way to edit and enhance such a file?
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<shevy> pontiki he writes in renglish :)
<AlexRussia> shevy: renglish?
<AlexRussia> XD
<shevy> sure - a mixture of russian and english
<pontiki> AlexRussia: read this http://git-scm.com/docs/git-blame
<AlexRussia> shevy: ahaha
<AlexRussia> pontiki: thx
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<Hanmac> shevy: use extend
<AlexRussia> pontiki: oh, is LAST change
<obfuscated> mrfoo: yes, but I would appreciate someone familiar with the language to strip it from the repeating constructs
<shevy> Hanmac hmm but I dont quite understand it
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<obfuscated> shevy: I can give you the path to the current version of the file and you can provide patch if you like
<pontiki> shevy, you might want to try extend instead of include there
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<Hanmac> shevy: include: add to ancestor chain of instances ... extend: add to ancestor chain of singleton class (add class methods)
<AlexRussia> pontiki: hey, is a simple git log <file>
<shevy> obfuscated hmm no that is too much hassle, collaborative editing would be nice, that way I could contribute a little without having to commit too much time, and other people can contribute too etc... in an iterative manner
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<shevy> Hanmac hmm curious
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<pontiki> how much is it worth to you obfuscated ?
<shevy> Hanmac I could not use extend inside the module definition though?
<obfuscated> shevy: sorry, I'm too old school:)
<Hanmac> shevy wrong you can
<shevy> hmm
<obfuscated> pontiki: I don't understand your question...
<pontiki> obfuscated: you want people to do work for you, how much is it worth to you to have them do it?
<shevy> ah yes
<shevy> Hanmac, I got it finally thanks
<shevy> and thanks to pontiki as well
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<pontiki> nah, hanmac was on it
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<shevy> can I do both an include and extend on the same module?
<obfuscated> pontiki: in fact I don't really care much about it, because I don't intend to learn ruby any time, soon, I've just found that the sample in codeblocks is lacking and also the highlighting is wrong, so I wanted to fix it
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<AlexRussia> pontiki: hey, ty
<Hanmac> shevy yes you can
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<shevy> obfuscated a regex in ruby:
<shevy> abc =~ /b/
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<shevy> operators: + - / ** ** ^
<shevy> what is an identifier...
<obfuscated> shevy: this doesn't help much:)
<shevy> why not
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<pontiki> AlexRussia: yw, nw
<AlexRussia> pontiki: what what?
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<shevy> hehe
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<shevy> oh man ...
<AlexRussia> shevy: )
<shevy> I think I never fully understood extend
<pontiki> AlexRussia: you're welcome, no worries
<obfuscated> shevy: because I don't want to learn the language, but provide user interface for setting the colours of various elements for the people use it
<shevy> I was always using it like so: object.extend(Module)
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<Hanmac> shevy:
<Hanmac> >> $_ = "input data"; "something"; ~/at/
<eval-in> Hanmac => 7 (https://eval.in/96920)
<shevy> obfuscated I would not teach you the language either, I am just giving answers to your earlier questions
<pontiki> shevy: remember, a module is also an object
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<shevy> operators, identifiers, regex <-- 3 questions :)
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<obfuscated> shevy: these were examples, because I don't know all the elements of the language
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<obfuscated> I just saw that there is option to set the regex color in codeblocks, this is why I've mentioned it
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<kaffeebohne> What do I have to change that my regex matches in the second line? o.0 http://rubular.com/r/7zqLIf7ran
<canton7> kaffeebohne, why do you end with \W?
<Hanmac> obfuscated: most code highlighter get confused very easlly ... like they highlight in [].include?(3) the include because include is a code word for them ... or they got problems that they think that number / value + something / other is a regexp because it has two //
<kaffeebohne> canton7: Because the match should ignore stuff like ,/! etc
<canton7> kaffeebohne, also note that '.' is a special regex character, so you need to escape it if you want a literal full stop
<canton7> kaffeebohne, as in, it's looking for a non-word character at the end of the URL, which the first line has (a newline), but the second doesn't
<kaffeebohne> ok, \W was the problem in the second match
<kaffeebohne> ah
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<apeiros> kaffeebohne: just use URI.extract
<kaffeebohne> so \W|\z would work?
<obfuscated> Hanmac: ok, but still irrelevant, I'm not writing the lexer, it is already there, because codeblocks uses scintilla...
<kaffeebohne> jep, got it
<canton7> kaffeebohne, I still don't understand why the \W is tehre :P
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<Hanmac> obfuscated: i never said that scintilla is perfect ;P *G
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<kaffeebohne> canton7: t.co only uses word characters for their links, so this is a sign that the link has ended
<kaffeebohne> of course this would fail on doma.in/~home
<apeiros> kaffeebohne: \w* already stops on \W
<kaffeebohne> ah
<apeiros> without you putting it there
<kaffeebohne> ok
<apeiros> you don't instruct a regex to "stop here"
<kaffeebohne> sorry, I'm not a regex pro yet :D
<apeiros> you instruct a regex on "match this"
<apeiros> ?
<apeiros> hence I tell you…
<pontiki> unless you want that non-word character in the match
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<shevy> ok now I may have a possibly very stupid question
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<shevy> module Foo; extend Foo; end <--- does that make any sense? and more importantly, would that be the same as "extend self" in that context?
<apeiros> pontiki: yes, which would be "match this" :)
<pontiki> nod
<canton7> kaffeebohne, http://rubular.com/r/qQZsMvf9Rc for instance
<Hanmac> shevy: yes and yes to both of your questions
<shevy> cool
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<shevy> well
<shevy> why do people seem to prefer: extend self, rather than the precise name?
<pontiki> shevy: in the module, "self" is standing in for Foo
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<kaffeebohne> thanks folks
<apeiros> shevy: less repetition, easier to refactor
<pontiki> ^
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<apeiros> shevy: the better question would be: why do they use a broken idiom? they should use module_function instead of extend self
<pontiki> i was going to say more portable, but refactor is what i meant
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<shevy> apeiros hmm
<shevy> apeiros but if they have many module_functions? then extend self would be more convenient I guess?
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<apeiros> shevy: no
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<apeiros> shevy: module_function can be written as a single statement and all def's after it become module_function
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<apeiros> just like with private/protected/public too
<shevy> I see
<apeiros> the only annoying thing is that I deindent `module_function`, so I sometimes end up with `module Foo\nmodule_function\n def …`
<apeiros> i.e., module_function on the same indent as `module …`
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<Hanmac> apeiros: because there is a tiny difference between module_function and extend self
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<apeiros> Hanmac: not just a tiny
<apeiros> Hanmac: the difference is the reason for me saying `extend self` is a broken idiom.
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<Hanmac> module_function makes copies of the methods, extend_self does not
<pontiki> apeiros: do you deindent public/protected/private as well?
<apeiros> module_function also makes instance methods private (which they should be), with extend self, that's annoyingly more work to do
<apeiros> pontiki: yes
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<apeiros> pontiki: only without argument, of course
<apeiros> pontiki: I'd prefer if those 4 methods took a block
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<apeiros> that'd IMO be more ruby style anyway…
<pontiki> right, of course
<pontiki> i meant as a barrier
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<apeiros> yeah, to make it visually easier to catch
<apeiros> "a barrier" is quite an apt description :)
<pontiki> i like it. i'm not sure how to get emacs's ruby mode to do that...
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<pontiki> i don't think i invented it...
<pontiki> is that not the term?
<apeiros> no idea
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<apeiros> I don't know of a term for it
<apeiros> I only know the concurrency mechanism "barrier"
<apeiros> (how tf do you call such a thing? it's not a datastructure, it's not really an algorithm…)
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<pontiki> as a syntactic element, barrier seems apt
<pontiki> it's dividing meaning, preventing one from slopping over
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<kaffeebohne> thanks folks
<pontiki> i swear i read it somewhere
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<kaffeebohne> oh, wrong windows :D
<pontiki> so no thanks for us, then?
<pontiki> lol
<apeiros> pontiki: isn't it more like a road bump? in that it slows you down/is quite noticable, but doesn't stop you from passing?
<pontiki> speed bumps on the code of life
<pontiki> i guess if we were bowlers we could call it a gutter
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<shevy> hmm
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<pontiki> i didn't even think about it until you pointed it out, apeiros
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<apeiros> think about what? the term? deindenting it?
<pontiki> the term
<pontiki> i have seen it deindented before
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<pontiki> same with private/protected/public
<apeiros> :)
<apeiros> I haven't thought about it having a term before either
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<pontiki> is this a reese's moment?
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<banister> pontiki don't think he's american enough to get that joke ;)
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<banister> (i dont get it either, i've only *just* heard of reese's chocolate bars… :P)
<pontiki> ah sorry
<pontiki> cultural relativism and all that
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<pontiki> "you got your chocolate on my peanut butter!" "you got your peanut butter on my chocolate!" (together) "heeyyyyy :))"
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<shevy> ...
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<shevy> kindergarten!!!
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<shevy> then again
<shevy> chocolate rocks
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<pontiki> kindergarten rocks
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<apeiros> pontiki: what's a "reese's moment"?
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<shevy> reese
<shevy> the moment when he turns into superman perhaps
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<shevy> oh
<shevy> that was reeve
<shevy> :(
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<pontiki> apeiros: i just explained it above in the convo. it's based on an adverts for reese's peanut butter cups, which is crappy chocolate formed around crappy peanut butter, but somehow tastes really good
<apeiros> pontiki: oy
<apeiros> odd one
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<apeiros> thanks for the explanation
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<pontiki> my point being a happy collision, perhaps
<pontiki> idk
<pontiki> not important, long way 'round to a bad joke
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<sabeur> gg
<sabeur> what is the alternative for cucumber/
<sabeur> ?
<apeiros> pontiki: yeah, sorry for killing your joke by letting it explain :)
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<pontiki> no worries, apeiros, i have to explain stuff i say to a lot of people
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<pontiki> i tend to use metaphors and analogies a lot, but they fall flat when people don't have the cultural reference
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<shevy> pontiki tell another joke!
<pontiki> young guy i was recently working with, did not understand any of my sff references :'((
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<pontiki> i'm so old!
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<pontiki> shevy: how do you keep a rubyist in suspense?
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> Thread.new!
<shevy> OR BY NOT ANSWERING YOUR OWN QUESTION :(
<shevy> ...
<shevy> pontiki what is the answer?
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<havenwood> ;)
<shevy> grrrrr
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<apeiros> the suspense is kill -9-ing shevy
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<shevy> ok
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<shevy> too many bad jokes are upcoming
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<lagweezle> sabeur: The alternative? In what way? Tests, or non-coder-readable/writeable specs/tests?
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<havenwood> sabeur: The alternative I like for cucumber is no cucumber.
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<havenwood> Kinda like the alternative for talking in pig latin all the time, don't.
<shevy> pontiki please ...
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<diegoviola> I also don't see the point in using cucumber
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<sabeur> we use it at wokr
<AlexRussia> cucumber?
<sabeur> functional testing
<AlexRussia> a
<AlexRussia> ok
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<lagweezle> AlexRussia: http://cukes.info/
<diegoviola> capybara looks saner to me
<sabeur> its becoming huge side project itself
<sabeur> isn't capybara the web driver for cucumber?
<lagweezle> diegoviola: capybara isn't quite the same thing
<sabeur> its close to jquery
<lagweezle> but yeah, cucumber can easily become a project itself, which is why a lot of folks strongly dislike it
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<diegoviola> Capybara and Cucumber both are different things, no? one doesn't depend on another
<lagweezle> diegoviola: cucumber would be driving capybara to do things
<lagweezle> or rspec would drive capybara, etc
<diegoviola> oh
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<diegoviola> so cucumber uses capybara under the hood?
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<apeiros> diegoviola: can use
<apeiros> doesn't have to
<apeiros> you could use cucumber to control a robot
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<diegoviola> interesting, thanks
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<lagweezle> sabeur: What is Cucumber being used for at your work?
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<sabeur> we use it play difference scenario in our application
<lagweezle> sabeur: I mean, user->UI interaction? What kind of interaction with the code.
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<sabeur> UI interacton
<sabeur> no code interaction
<lagweezle> Okay. At least staying in the realm that appears to be appropriate for it. :)
<sabeur> since the app is spring mvc
<sabeur> yeah but its slow and become a project it self
<sabeur> just wondered if there was an alternative
<pontiki> yes, shevy ?
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<sabeur> pontiki: shevy?
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<pontiki> sabeur? what are you asking?
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<shevy> pontiki the answer!
<havenwood> sabeur: There was a project called steak, but I think most people who look for an alternative simple stop using something in its place and opt for simplicity of just Rspec/Minitest or whatever you use for TDD.
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<pontiki> shevy: i think i demonstrated it, don't you?
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<sabeur> havenwood: ah yeah i heard similar thing - ill look around and probably fall back to rspec and minitest
<shevy> ...
<havenwood> sabeur: Cucumber is an additional layer that a bunch of people cargoculted onto then collectively one at a time realize they're doing the work twice.
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<havenwood> i dunno
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<havenwood> i've never seen the sense in it
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* lagweezle pats shevy.
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<pontiki> the only sense i see is that it allows non programmers to write scenarios/stories/acceptance tests that can be programmatically translated
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<havenwood> pontiki: I've just never seen that happening. Apparently enterprise where there is a testing department like it? Seems an old fashioned way to do things. I guess I just don't work in an environment where it is sane. :P
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<pontiki> it's a big company environment (or mentality), i think, yeah
<pontiki> big enough to have completely separate roles
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<pontiki> which doesn't have to be all that big, actually
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<pontiki> i guess some people work better with more circumscribed responsibilities for everyone
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<pontiki> in my experience, though, such things are both an excuse not to communicate and a solution for people not being able to communicate, as well, a way to reduce the perceived need to do critical thinking on the project/program
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<pontiki> somewhat in defense, tho, i will say hand-writing your stories out ahead of time in Gherkin is actually a good thing
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<pontiki> using them to communicate intent
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<lagweezle> +1
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<pontiki> overall though, one size never fits all. use what works for your environment needs
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<diegoviola> i've seen a project that doesn't use any kind of tests at all, is that a red flag in a project?
<lagweezle> PM + Dev + QA collaborate to create the Gherkin / Story. It depends a lot on how well folks can do that, though.
<pontiki> diegoviola: i think you must mean no automated tests
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<pontiki> the only projects that have absolutely no tests are the ones that are never run
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<diegoviola> pontiki: well yeah
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<pontiki> and to answer that question, that is a huge red flag for me
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<pontiki> in this current gig, i've been working on three projects, none of which have had any tests written.
<pontiki> so the testing is all manual
<diegoviola> ugh
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<pontiki> they've been really good about doing thorough manual testing
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<pontiki> but i'm not going to sit at a browser and enter the same stuff over and over
<diegoviola> isn't that too time consuming though?
<diegoviola> manual testing
<pontiki> yes
<pontiki> and boring
<havenwood> >> "#{['Test', 'Behavior', 'Hammock', 'REPL'].sample} driven development is best!'"
<pontiki> mind-numbingly boring
<eval-in> havenwood => "Behavior driven development is best!'" (https://eval.in/96936)
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<havenwood> boo, why'd i pick that one :(
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<diegoviola> pontiki: why don't they write tests then?
<havenwood> shame on you, eval-in
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<lagweezle> Hrm.
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<pontiki> oh, it's strange, diegoviola
<pontiki> they talk about tdd
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<pontiki> but then they just hack shit out
<pontiki> not universally
<pontiki> a few of the leads are really trying to change things there, i think
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<pontiki> and since i'm so freaking lazy, i add tests for the stuff i'm working on
<lagweezle> Signal.trap blocks set up handlers, or ... callback type behavior that are run at some later point, should the signal they are interested in be encountered?
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<lagweezle> So I set it up, then do other stuff, and if a signal I indicated interest in happens, the block I gave to Signal.trap is then executed at that point?
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<pontiki> yes and yes
<lagweezle> Phew.
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<lagweezle> havenwood: hah cute :)
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<lagweezle> diegoviola: regarding manual testing, it depends on whether or not you have an army of trained monkeys or not. If there is a dept. of (relatively) low paid employees who can handle the monotony of repeating the same damned behavior over repeatedly but also have the intelligence to precisely record and report issues, then you can get away with it. If you don't have said monkey army, you're probably inflicting a LOT of pain on your fut
* lagweezle uses Wall of Text.
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<pontiki> it got cut off
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<pontiki> probably inflicting a LOT of pain on your fut
<diegoviola> lagweezle: agreed
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<havenwood> i thought there was an interesting discussion about grinders versus testers on RubyRogues a while back: http://rubyrogues.com/121-rr-consulting-vs-product-work-with-adam-keys/
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<lagweezle> ... future self.
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<lagweezle> I say this as someone employed in QA. I DETEST manual testing. If I do something more than twice, I start getting VERY unhappy. As a person, I have a very low tolerance for doing the same thing multiple times.
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<lagweezle> "Making the Product Better vs Getting Paid" is a tough one. ^^
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<apeiros> lagweezle: humans are unreliable wrt repetition, though
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<lagweezle> VERY!
<apeiros> if you've once written a test, you can be relatively sure it'll catch a regression. not so much with humans.
* lagweezle agrees thoroughly.
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<pontiki> as a person in QA, your job, so to speak, is to expose the risk of releasing the product at it's current point to your management
<pontiki> it is not to test
<pontiki> it is not even to write tests
<lagweezle> Also, you can run the test a lot faster, so you are less likely to say, "Oh, just skip it for this release. I'm pretty sure we didn't break that ... OFUK!"
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<lagweezle> pontiki: True. Thankfully (maybe?) I'm also SDET-ish, and a tool creator, etc. Yay small companies?
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<pontiki> sorry, not getting SDET-ish
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<lagweezle> SDET: Software Developer in Test
<pontiki> where does the E come from?
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<lagweezle> Er, make that Software Development Engineer in Test
<pontiki> ah
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<apeiros> dang, I really want a retina external screen
<lagweezle> I woke up 45m ago and haven't had any caffeine. ^^;
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<lagweezle> Or whenever it was I started typing was < 5m after getting up from bed.
<apeiros> got to move my SC2 stream to the 24" monitor because I need my 15" retina screen for previewing
<pontiki> in the ginormous company i worked at, QA engineers were expected to be developers
<lagweezle> SC2 = StarCraft 2?
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<apeiros> lagweezle: yupp
<pontiki> Software QA Engineers, specifically
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<apeiros> some people watch soccer or football, I watch SC2 :)
<apeiros> much more action anyway…
<pontiki> we had test technicians to actually execute tests, automated and manual
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<havenwood> I think this is a great talk in favor of simplicity: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy
<lagweezle> Technician is a good word for that.
<lagweezle> I need to remember that.
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<kaffeebohne> any ideas why the gsub on line 27 is not replacing anything? on line 28 it works. https://paste.xinu.at/4Po63/
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<havenwood> Rich Hickey talk on Hammock Driven Development and Conrad Irwin on REPL Driven Development are both worth watching!
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<Mon_Ouie> kaffeebohne: Because you're not checking the result
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<pontiki> lagweezle: it used to be a large scientific and engineering company, so such terms probably came easier
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<kaffeebohne> how can i do that Mon_Ouie ?
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<apeiros> kaffeebohne: gsub returns the modified string
<apeiros> it does not modify the string in-place
<apeiros> kaffeebohne: either use gsub!, or reassign the result
<apeiros> kaffeebohne: also /http:\/\/t\.co\/\w*/.match(tweet)[0] --> tweet[/http:\/\/t\.co\/\w*/]
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<apeiros> and tweet[/http:\/\/t\.co\/\w*/] --> tweet[%r{http://t\.co/\w*}]
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<kaffeebohne> ah, ok
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<diegoviola> why are more people using cruby than rubinius?
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<shevy> diegoviola what is cruby?
<diegoviola> MRI
<shevy> ah
<shevy> well MRI always worked
<diegoviola> I see
<shevy> some 3 years ago rubinius was a bitch to compile for me
<shevy> it got better
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<diegoviola> it's pretty easy these days
<shevy> then the lead developer left the project
<shevy> at that point I stopped caring about it
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<shevy> when people leave a project, the identity of a project often changes. You can see that when _why left, shoes (shoes4) now depends on java (wtf...)
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<AlexRussia> mri is matz ruby interp...bla-bla
<shevy> main ruby implementation AlexRussia
<AlexRussia> shevy: O
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<shevy> huh
<shevy> wikipedia does not agree
<shevy> who of you edited it!
<AlexRussia> LoL
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<shevy> hmmm
<shevy> "Yukihiro Matsumoto's C implementation of Ruby aka Main Ruby Implementation is considered the Quasi-Standard of the Ruby Language"
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<AlexRussia> shevy: Interpreter XD
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<shevy> ...
<shevy> the official ruby webpage should explain these acronyms really
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<shevy> "Support for Ruby version 1.9.3 will end on February 23, 2015"
<shevy> waaaah :(
<shevy> I have only one year left
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<viki> Hi, I'm new to programming and I'm trying to learn ruby. Would anybody mind taking a look at this exercise I'm working on? I'm stuck and I can't seem to figure out how to get un-stuck. :/ https://gist.github.com/VikiAnn/8754948
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<AlexRussia> shevy: maybe, MRI is MRI and stop talk?
<apeiros> shevy: just upgrade. switching from 1.9 to 2.1 is usually easy.
<apeiros> shevy: not comparable with 1.8 -> 1.9
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<lagweezle> viki: The test was provided and you are writing code to satisfy the tests, yeah?
<viki> Yes
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<lagweezle> viki: My initial thought would be to see if piece.class is String or Candy. The bag contains things of class Candy, not string.
<lagweezle> Not the best prompting, but I'm not fully awake yet. :3
<AlexRussia> shevy: don't worry, ruby is nice XD
<shevy> AlexRussia I know that
<lagweezle> viki: See where I'm heading?
<AlexRussia> shevy: XD
<viki> lagweezle: it's ok, I'll take half asleep help XD Uhm, so do you mean go into irb and try and look at piece.class?
<shevy> sometimes I wonder whether I would be more productive or less productive in python, if I would have spent equal amount of time into that to compare
<lagweezle> viki: Not quite. Um.
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<lagweezle> viki: Just to make sure, you are aware that everything in ruby acts like a class?
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<viki> lagweezle: i thought everything in ruby acts like an object, but I guess those aren't mutually exclusive. I do see that the bag contains things of class Candy, though, I'm just not sure where to go from there.
<lagweezle> viki: Oh. Sorry. Yes. Objects are made from classes. ^^
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<lagweezle> viki: So, when you instantiate (make an Object from a class) a Candy, you provide it with a String ("Skittles" or "Sour frogs").
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<viki> lagweezle: Yes, and it stores that as @candy and also a sugar value in @sugar.
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<lagweezle> Just to make sure, which test is the current failing test?
<viki> line 58 in bag_test.rb
<viki> I'm trying to write the method grab to make it pass
<lagweezle> Okay. It looks like line 65 and 66 are the ones that are causing you the trouble.
<AlexRussia> shevy: is interesing
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<viki> lagweezle: Yes, because I haven't defined grab properly yet
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<lagweezle> bag.grab "Jawbreaker" <-- bag (your Object) grab (the message/method) is passed "Jawbreaker" (parameter/argument)
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<lagweezle> "Jawbreaker" is a String.
<lagweezle> In your grab method, you are checking if piece (in this case, "Jawbreaker") is in @candies.
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<lagweezle> So the first question you want to answer is, "Does @candies contain any Strings?"
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<viki> Well. It does, just not as one of the objects in the array. Like, one of the objects in the array has a string in it, but that's not what it's looking at.
<AlexRussia> where there a method to escape characters in the string?
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<lagweezle> So @candies contains zero or more of what type of object?
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<havenwood> viki: piece if @candies.map(&:type).include?(piece)
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<viki> instances of the class Candy
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<lagweezle> Arg. Need to AFK a few to take my pup outside.
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<lagweezle> havenwood: Tht is a nifty trick. ^^;
<viki> no worries
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<viki> havenwood: i'm going to look at that. is the &:type part from my candy file?
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<havenwood> viki: I think your design is odd, but your test will pass if you put a `.map(&:type)` into line 31: https://gist.github.com/VikiAnn/8754948#file-bag-rb
<DaniG2k> apeiros: this crawler doesnt work for shit -_-
<shevy> I hate channels where I must register in order to speak :(
<DaniG2k> apeiros: its working for ted.com but most other sites have some issues
<havenwood> viki: It is the same as: @candies.map { |candy| candy.type }.include? peice
<viki> havenwood: probably because i don't really have a design, i'm just trying to make the test pass :P
<havenwood> piece*
<apeiros> DaniG2k: welcome to coding.
<shevy> :D
<DaniG2k> its insane
<apeiros> need a handkerchief
<apeiros> ?
<DaniG2k> i think google had it easier back in the day
<shevy> AlexRussia use .delete() method
<DaniG2k> when the web was retarded
<AlexRussia> shevy: ok, ty
<DaniG2k> apeiros: no not at all. I work for a search technology company
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<havenwood> viki: I prefer simplifying and using data structures that match your domain, but yeah that one line change will at least make that one test pass. :)
<DaniG2k> apeiros: but id never tried implementing my own
<DaniG2k> apeiros: its hard as balls
<apeiros> DaniG2k: only if you reinvent all the wheels
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<shevy> AlexRussia also, it is best if you give (a) example input (b) desired output. People will then tell you the ruby code... example: 'Hey guys how can I remove all vowls from "foobar world"?'
<apeiros> DaniG2k: you know, there's enough libs for crawling the web
<shevy> *vowels
<havenwood> DaniG2k: What are you using as your crawler, or writing your own?
<DaniG2k> apeiros: i just wanted to see the challenges involved
<DaniG2k> apeiros: i dont actually want to write a full fledged crawler
<viki> havenwood: I like the sound of simplifying, but I'm not really sure what that means.
<DaniG2k> havenwood: i started writing my own, which apeiros basically rewrote for me :P
<apeiros> DaniG2k: well, mission accomplished? seems you're seeing some already…
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<DaniG2k> yes
<apeiros> havenwood: he had difficulties going from functional/recursive patterns to state/OOP
<DaniG2k> yes
<DaniG2k> i think for any tree like structure, recursive is unquestionably better
<DaniG2k> but oop works better for things we can think of as objects like cars, people, etc
<havenwood> viki: Makes sense for learning. Even if you don't want to write code that way need to be able to read and work with it.
<havenwood> apeiros: ah, makes sense
<apeiros> DaniG2k: given your lack of experience, you sure are quick to judge.
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<DaniG2k> apeiros: have you done much functional?
<apeiros> DaniG2k: do I judge?
<AlexRussia> shevy: uhu, ty
<DaniG2k> apeiros: did i ask?
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<shevy> :)
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<lagweezle> oof is cold outside! O.O
<apeiros> DaniG2k: no, I haven't done much functional
<apeiros> that is, purely functional
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<viki> havenwood: what makes sense for learning? just making the tests pass, or what you mentioned about making data structures match the domain? That's the part i don't understand.
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<shevy> Can we actually say this: "This method is the actual working horse of the project."
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<havenwood> viki: For example, you can return complex objects or more basic data types like Hashes, Arrays, Sets. I was just suggesting that the latter made more sense to me given the simplicity of your problem, but when the point is learning then overly-simplified examples with overly complex code make sense. There is a large degree of discretion. Don't mind me.
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* lagweezle goes and looks up Proc to see what & (to_proc) effectively does.
<havenwood> DaniG2k: the spidr gem is an interesting crawler to look at as a reference. played with mechanize at all?
<viki> Ah. Yeah, I'm sure there are shorter ways to do things, I just need to learn the basics first.
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<platzhirsch> lagweezle: Has the guy yesterday written anything else about the interview scandal?
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<lagweezle> platzhirsch: I've not heard anything about it. SO strange.
<havenwood> scandal?
<platzhirsch> havenwood: This was really strange first, then I felt sad
<lagweezle> Someone was trying to get an interview at a company in order to turn it into a partnership negotiation, is my take on it.
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<platzhirsch> Offered 100$ + Bonus if you do the Skype interview for him
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<DaniG2k> havenwood: no, i haven't but I immediately saw it's use when trying to crawl NYT since it requires cookies
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<lagweezle> viki: So, skipping more of the prompting thing, I'd go about it by checking if @candies.include?(Candy.new(piece))
<DaniG2k> Mechanize also keeps track of the sites that you have visited as a history
<DaniG2k> wow
<DaniG2k> so it's basically a crawler in it of itself :P
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<viki> lagweezle: i was going to try the map thing first, but i'm on a different computer than i'm used to and minitest isn't working
<lagweezle> :(
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<lagweezle> Map is one of those things I really need to get in the habit of using.
<viki> i tried gem update minitest, but i don't think it could find it, i guess i'll try gem install minitest :/
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<viki> and i don't have permission -_- must interrupt the boyfriend
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<havenwood> viki: OS X or Ubuntu system install of Ruby? Nice to set it up so you can do local install of gems.
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<viki> havenwood: my boyfriend is helping me install chruby. i'm borrowing his mac.
<havenwood> So you don't need sudo for gem install. :)
<havenwood> viki: Nice! Good choice. :)
<havenwood> chruby ftw! \o/
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<Rylee> *gem install --user
<Rylee> ?
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<Xuisce> viki: great
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<havenwood> Rylee: sure, then update $PATH, but nice to just chruby and have all your env vars set correctly from the outset with latest Ruby
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<animehti_> Hello fellow rubyist
<shevy> hi animehti_
<shevy> our numbers are growing
<animehti_> how's it going?
<shevy> animehti_ we must prepare for the final battle
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<shevy> and take over #python
<lagweezle> I love me rbenv
<animehti_> Oh ok.
<lagweezle> Er, I love me some rbenv.
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<animehti_> I switches from python to ruby
<animehti_> Is that a bad thing?
<shevy> yes we understood you lagweezle you really love rbenv
<shevy> from python to ruby?
<shevy> that is good or?
<shevy> from ruby to python is bad
<lagweezle> animehti_: I do Python at work, Ruby at not-work. I prefer Ruby.
<shevy> :D
<animehti_> oh ok
<shevy> lagweezle starting next week, I must use perl :(
<havenwood> lagweezle: shims :X
<lagweezle> shevy: It isn't inherently bad, but ... yeah. :3
* lagweezle pats shevy :(
<lagweezle> havenwood: dislike?
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<havenwood> lagweezle: I think it is an inferior solution to chruby, and I decidedly didn't like the manner in which they introduced the tool.
<havenwood> FUD
<animehti_> What can you do wih Ruby. I am a beginner. All I do is save ruby files and run them in the ruby interpreter.
<lagweezle> havenwood: Fair enough. chruby is shiny looking.
<endash> animehti_: anything. Web apps, telnet apps (with Celluloid), ruby-processing is fun for visual programming
<lagweezle> I think I will have to look into chruby more.
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<animehti_> I don't use ruby on rails. What is just plain old ruby object oriented programming for?
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<animehti_> Or is there a difference?
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<endash> ruby motion for ios apps...
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<endash> what is it for?
<endash> it's a language...
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<endash> you can use it for anything you can use any other language for
<havenwood> animehti_: simulating jet fighter hardware/software, supercomputer simulations, controlling satellite cameras, computing anything that is computable, etc
<endash> That's like saying, "I don't use cocoa… what is objective-C for"
<havenwood> animehti_: On the other hand, Rails is one of many Rack frameworks (meant for making web apps online).
<endash> That said there are plenty of libraries (rails being one) that use ruby to fairly easily do cool things
<havenwood> animehti_: Rails is one gem. There are tens of thousands of other gems.
<animehti_> can anyone show me an example of a ruby program someone made with ruby or ruby on rails with the actual code.
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<havenwood> animehti_: Here is a Ruby library for controlling the Parrot AR drone quadcopter: https://github.com/jimweirich/argus#readme
<havenwood> A gem.
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<endash> a better question might be what do YOU want to do with ruby
<animehti_> What's a gem? is it like a complete official program licensed and stuff?
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<shevy> animehti_ basically an archive with files inside
<DaniG2k> wow
<havenwood> animehti_: http://rubygems.org/
<lagweezle> sexy
<DaniG2k> I've just rewritten my entire crawler with 3 lines from Mechanize @_@
<lagweezle> the quadcopter gem
<DaniG2k> this is insane
<shevy> animehti_ it allows people to do commandline install of these packages. "gem install NAME_HERE"
<havenwood> DaniG2k: Mechanize is good stuff.
<endash> a gem is a library that is packaged for easy install
<DaniG2k> havenwood: its really nice, exactly what I wanted :
<DaniG2k> :)
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<havenwood> easy_install /hissssss
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> havenwood you speak foreign languages!
<endash> intent not necessarily actual execution
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<havenwood> shevy: last time i joked pythonistas speak slitherin i was corrected by like ten people that the language is actually called...
<animehti_> too bad I dont understand like 80 percent of what ya explaining but ok. Thanks a lot.
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<endash> parseltongue
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<havenwood> that ^ ha
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<shevy> hahahahaha
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<viki> havenwood: ok, i tried the map thing, but i think i mistyped it or something because i'm getting a syntax error, for some reason it doesn't like my end now
<shevy> man, I so wanna go to #python with the nick python !
<havenwood> shevy: not allowed, there is one (but preferable no) way to do it!
<havenwood> preferably*
<havenwood> What do they say? "Later is better than now, but never will do just fine."
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<lagweezle> You need a period between } and include? on line 35 I think
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<viki> OH
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<viki> Ok, well that's progress I guess. Now it's saying i have no method type.
<viki> But I thought it should be able to see type, because type is in candy.rb and the test requires candy.rb
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<shevy> viki what if you would do: if @candy.any? {|e| e.type.include? piece }
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<havenwood> shevy: seems nice, though i think it would be: e.type == piece
<viki> shevy: in my bag.rb file? I think that'd run into the same issue with type, because it can't seem to see the methods from candy.rb inside of my bag.rb methods
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<havenwood> viki: You expose the instance variables with instance methods. You get at the instance variables by calling the corresponding method from the outside.
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<viki> lagweezle: will read, thanks
<havenwood> viki: Can be helpful to name your instance variables and corresponding methods the same, like the attr_'s do.
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<viki> havenwood: ok, i have to read that page about attr_accessor then :p I don't really understand that yet.
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<animehti_> how can I find a mentor who knows ruby and can mentor me? Any suggestions people
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<lagweezle> viki: SUPER short version; your class has an attribute named type, but it doesn't have a method named type. The method named 'type' would return the value of the attribute named 'type'. Java generally would name the attr 'type' and the method 'get_type'.
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<viki> lagweezle: oh wait a minute, i forgot i have type in another method in bag.rb (sorry, i got frustrated and left this exercise alone for like a week)
<viki> ok so wait
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<viki> so in my contains? method, when it calls type, is it NOT calling type from my candy.rb file?
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<lagweezle> It is trying to, but your candy.rb doesn't have such a method.
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<viki> candy.rb does, bag.rb doesn't
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<lagweezle> Oh. No. Nevermind. It does. :3
<viki> Ok i thought i understood why type wasn't working in my grab method, now I have no idea XD
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<lagweezle> No I'm confused, too.
<viki> do i just have this whole thing set up all wrong? maybe i should start over?
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<viki> i guess that won't really make a difference, since i'm just making methods in response to the tests anyway.
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<lagweezle> I'm now puzzled as well. I'd think it should work ...
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<lagweezle> @candies.map { |candy| candy.type } would return an array of the type values ...
<banister> lagweezle @candles.map(&:type)
* apeiros <3 map_aref
<lagweezle> viki: Just in case ... try https://gist.github.com/ncolton/8756018
<apeiros> @foo.map { |x| x["foo"] } --> @foo.map_aref("foo")
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<lagweezle> banister: Will it not work as either form? Or does it need to be the &:type form?
<banister> apeiros what's map_aref bb
<centrx> lagweezle, It works in either form, the (&:meth) is more concise
<viki> nope, still getting the nomethoderror
<apeiros> banister: just `def map_aref(*args); map { |e| e[*args] }; end` on Enumerable
<shevy> ack what is map_aref
<apeiros> banister: see the example
<centrx> Sounds made up
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* apeiros not sure what centrx wants to say by that
<lagweezle> viki: iono :/
<viki> it says NoMethodError: undefined method `type' for "Jawbreaker":String
<lagweezle> time for me to AFK :(
<viki> it's ok
<lagweezle> Oooh. Hm.
<shevy> what is type
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<ronny_> hi
<shevy> >> "abc".type
<lagweezle> type is a property of Candy
<eval-in> shevy => undefined method `type' for "abc":String (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/96957)
<shevy> who is Candy
<lagweezle> Candy ... er.
<viki> Candy is a class in the exercise i'm trying to do :p
<centrx> Candy: late 13c., "crystalized sugar," from Old French çucre candi "sugar candy," ultimately from Arabic qandi, from Persian qand "cane sugar," probably from Sanskrit khanda "piece (of sugar)," perhaps from Dravidian (cf. Tamil kantu "candy," kattu "to harden, condense").
<shevy> ok I suppose you wanted to use the .type method on Candy, but you passed a string object instead
<ronny_> im coming from python anyone aware of a good quickstart for people that are used to python infrastructure and wan to get used to ruby infrastructure?
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<ronny_> (i'd like to see something like pythons virtualenv)
<shevy> ronny_ what is virtualenv doing?
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<lagweezle> shevy: Er, so ... it isn't pulling from the @candies array? O.o
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<viki> the @candies array doesn't contain strings, is the problem i think
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<viki> still
<shevy> lagweezle dunno!
<centrx> ronny_, The analog of virtualenv is called RVM
<ronny_> shevy: makes a local tree of a python version one can install local packages in
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<shevy> aha
<shevy> a version manager
<shevy> I do that by installing into /Programs/Ruby/VERSION
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<shevy> so there is... RVM... rbenv .... hmm two more at least... ruby-install I think? ... hmm
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<viki> ok well, if i can't figure out this exercise today, that's ok. i have a rubymonk exercise i'm stuck on too...
<ronny_> shevy: vurtialenv allws me to have one python where i install things per python project, or even more than one of them
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> my internet is so lagging right now
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<shevy> :(
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<shevy> I can't grab the links to RVM rbenv and so forth, I may possibly disconnect soon
<ronny_> also are there any docs for getting started with packaging ruby packages?
<havenwood> shevy: ruby-install with chruby
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<shevy> ronny_ gems
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<shevy> ronny_ you basically create gems from a project
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<ronny_> k, will read up
<shevy> timelessrepo.com/making-ruby-gems?
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<ronny_> shevy: k, thx
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<lagweezle> viki: Something is very strange. https://gist.github.com/ncolton/8756468 shows that it does work to some degree
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<viki> lagweezle: is that you interacting with it in irb? i'm not sure what i'm looking at exactly.
<canton7> yeah that's a pry session
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<viki> pry is like irb?
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<canton7> and what doesn't work to some degreee, lagweezle?
<canton7> like but significantly better
<lagweezle> pry is irb on steroids, and without the shrunken testicles issue
<viki> haha ok
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<viki> i tried a couple other things in the meantime, still no luck really
<lagweezle> I finally started using it this week. I kick myself for waiting so long. Pry is full of awesomesauce.
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<lagweezle> You can do things like
<lagweezle> foo = []
<lagweezle> ls foo
<lagweezle> and it will list all the methods that foo has
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<nism> lagweezle, you can also cd into objects. so cd foo should also work!
* gopat 's now installing pry...
<viki> pry is a much more useful sounding name, too :p like, "lemme pry this thing into working"
<viki> or something
<lagweezle> Aye. It is ... insanely nice when you are trying to explore how things interact.
<lagweezle> haha yes viki! :)
<lagweezle> Anyways ... I must away, 'fore my wife starts beating me.
<apeiros> viki: I think the idea is "let's pry this open and take a look on its inside!"
<viki> ah, that makes sense
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<lagweezle> I'm thoroughly confused as to why your code isn't happy, viki. Good luck! :/
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<viki> lagweezle: later, thanks for trying!
* lagweezle idles.
<apeiros> you can put `binding.pry` into your code, and when your code reaches that point, a pry session will start
<apeiros> useful for debugging
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<apeiros> or learning too
<viki> apeiros: when your code reaches what point?
<apeiros> the line where you put `binding.pry`
<viki> oh
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<viki> ok well i feel slightly less stupid now that my code has stumped at least two other people, i'm not the only one confused by it (but then, i wrote it, so...)
<havenwood> viki: or pry-rescue to automatically open where an exception occurs
<apeiros> havenwood: does it patch Kernel#raise?
<apeiros> havenwood: or does it work for C exceptions too?
<canton7> viki, what was the problem?
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<viki> canton7: i'm working on this exercise https://gist.github.com/VikiAnn/8754948
<viki> i've tried a couple of different things to make my grab method pass, like a map thing havenwood suggested and another thing
<viki> i think i'm having vocabulary issues describing what's going on, too :/
<havenwood> apeiros: i think it works on C exceptions? i'm not sure.. i need to actually study the code :O
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<viki> The last thing i tried gave me a really funky error, i have no idea what's going on now
<apeiros> havenwood: if it patches Kernel#raise, it won't work for exceptions originating in C (rb_raise, I think?)
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<viki> when i tried that it said undefined method 'type' for true:TrueClass
<viki> and I am not sure why it thinks i'm calling type on true
<apeiros> viki: paste the code you use to run your lib and the exception
<viki> i thought i was calling type on candy
<apeiros> otherwise it's difficult to figure what problem you have
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<viki> apeiros: i'm not sure what code you mean
<AlexRussia> viki: why candy.type?
<AlexRussia> what is?
<apeiros> viki: you pasted 3 files. what do you run? `ruby WHICHFILEHERE`
<AlexRussia> viki: sorry, simple interesing, why not .class ?
<viki> apeiros: oh, sorry. ruby bag_test.rb
<AlexRussia> viki: bag, lol
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<apeiros> viki: and now the full error and then we can start helping ;-)
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<viki> uh, it's asking if i want to make a pastebin
<viki> sorry i'm new to irc too
<canton7> viki, candy = @candies.index{ |x| x.type == piece); @candies.delete(candy) if candy; return candy ?
<canton7> oops, s/index/first
<canton7> (candy = @candies.first{ |x| x.type == piece })
<centrx> detect
<apeiros> viki: that's because your client notices that you're trying to paste a lot of lines in here
<apeiros> viki: and that's generally resented upon
<canton7> that's the one
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<apeiros> viki: so your client is clever and suggests to put it in a paste service instead
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<canton7> actually I was after #find, not #first
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<apeiros> viki: I get a different error… I get a syntax error
<apeiros> your gist up to date?
<viki> uhm maybe not, lemme update it
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<apeiros> viki: do you use git?
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<viki> apeiros: i'm not sure
<apeiros> then probably not :)
<viki> quite possibly :P
<apeiros> want to learn it? makes sharing your code easier
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<viki> sure
<apeiros> in your shell/bash, type `git --version` (without the ` quotes)
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<viki> git version 1.8.3.4 (Apple Git-47)
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<apeiros> nice, so you've an up-to-date git installed. nothing stopping you
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<viki> i'm borrowing my boyfriend's laptop, i'm sure he uses git
<apeiros> you know how to use the shell/bash? that is, commands like `cd`, `pwd` etc?
<viki> sort of, i know what cd does, i don't know what pwd does
<viki> i also usually use a windows pc
<apeiros> pwd prints where you currently are
<centrx> Print Working Directory
<viki> oh ok
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<apeiros> viki: ok, cd to the root of your project
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<apeiros> viki: then type `git init`
<viki> ok, i have the test files in one folder and the other ones in a lib folder, so do i need to cd to the folder that has both those folders in it?
<apeiros> that command initializes your git repository, you only have to do that once for a repository. it tells git that you want to use it for that directory.
<apeiros> viki: yes
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<viki> ok, i did git init
<apeiros> then type `git add -A`, and then `git commit -m 'Initial commit'`
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<apeiros> the first one informs git that you want to update all files in the repository (puts it into the "staging" area), the second one then commits it into the repository
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<viki> ok, done both those things
<apeiros> on github.com (not gists.github.com), click on the "Repositories" tab
<apeiros> there the green button to the right, "+ New"
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<apeiros> choose a name for your repo, hit "create"
<apeiros> you should then see some instructions, look at the lower part, "Push an existing repository from the command line"
<apeiros> copy the two lines it shows there to your shell
<apeiros> then reload and paste the url of your github repo
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<apeiros> (tell me if I move too fast)
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<viki> it says the authenticity of host can't be established
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<apeiros> d'oh
<apeiros> upon the `git push …` command I presume?
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<viki> yes
<apeiros> :-/
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<viki> unless i was supposed to paste the two lines separately
<apeiros> shouldn't matter
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<viki> lemme s.o.s. the boyfriend person
<apeiros> does your boyfriend use github?
<apeiros> heh, same thought, I guess :)
<apeiros> remote debugging such issues is a bit difficult
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<s2013> is ruby a good language to study/practice algos with?
<AlexRussia> s2013: yes
<viki> fixt
<apeiros> s2013: yupp
<s2013> know of any good ruby algo tutorials?
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<s2013> i am trying to refresh my memory from my college days
<apeiros> s2013: algo tutorials shouldn't really be language specific
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<s2013> well thats true but id like to see soem algos implemented in ruby
<s2013> i feel like ruby does so much already
<apeiros> viki: yupp, excellent
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<s2013> at my university we used c++ for all our algo classes but that was 10 yers ago
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<s2013> years*
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<apeiros> viki: when you want to update your code, it's 3 steps: `git add -A`, then `git commit -m 'write here what you have done'` and `git push`
<RubyPanther> mine were supposed to be in C++ but I did it all in plain C and they passed me anyway *whew*
<apeiros> the first 2 will record the changes locally. the third puts it on github.
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<viki> do we know what -A and -m stand for?
<apeiros> yes, -A tells git "add everything (All)"
<s2013> all?
<apeiros> and "-m" means "message", which tells git to use the message you supply right after the -m
<viki> and the message is just explaining what changes you made?
<s2013> i just do git add . then git commit -am "sadfaf"
<apeiros> I'd not spend too much time on git details at the moment. you'll learn how to use it more precisely in time.
<viki> ok
<s2013> ill check it out RubyPanther thanks
<apeiros> s2013: `git add .` doesn't catch deletions
<shevy> viki the best way to use git is to throw random commands at it until it works
<apeiros> or didn't, it might have changed (at least git add . complained and said something about that - dunno)
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<apeiros> viki: yes, the message is supposed to explain the changes
<RubyPanther> THere are only a couple completed, but it is porting the "Mastering Algorithms in C" book, so it is a good start... maybe somebody will pick it up and finish it
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<s2013> commit -am does apeiros
<apeiros> viki: there too, I wouldn't worry too much about it. writing good commit messages isn't much of a concern at this stage.
<s2013> if i delete stuff it deletes it so i dont have much worires about it
<viki> okie dokie
<apeiros> s2013: `git commit -a` does what `git add -A` does in a single step
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<s2013> i see
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<apeiros> s2013: so if you do `git add .` and then `git commit -am` you're doing one step too much
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<apeiros> the git add becomes redundant
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<s2013> interesting. didnt know that
<apeiros> viki: nevertheless, once you feel comfortable at coding, I'd start exploring git too. it's a powerful and useful tool
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<apeiros> viki: anyway, back to the issue :D
<apeiros> you got `NoMethodError: undefined method `type' for true:TrueClass`, right?
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<viki> yes. and the things i tried before got me undefined method 'type' for strings.
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<viki> so it thinks i'm calling type on true, right?
<apeiros> yes
<apeiros> that's what the message says
<viki> i'm not sure why :/
<apeiros> I'm checking :)
<apeiros> got to read your code first
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<viki> thank you
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<apeiros> ok, so your code is `candy = bag.grab "Jawbreaker"` and then `candy.type`
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<apeiros> as you correctly understood, the error tells you that `candy` has `true` assigned to it
<apeiros> this means `bag.grab "Jawbreaker"` returned true
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<apeiros> so you have to take a look at Bag#grab
<shevy> viki to avoid such errors, you can always use an additional if check. For instance: if your_object.is_a? Candy # continue
<shevy> that way you would never again run into an error like "undefined method `type' for true:TrueClass"
<apeiros> viki: a method returns either the value you explicitly return using `return VALUE`, or the last evaluated expression
<apeiros> viki: the last expression of that `grab` method is candies.any? …
<shevy> wow... #ruby-lang is so dead compared to #ruby ...
<apeiros> and any? indeed returns true/false, depending on the code of the block
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<apeiros> viki: I assume your intention was to return the first candy whose .type is == piece?
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<viki> sorry, had to switch computers
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<apeiros> hi Jdubs
<viki> yes, that was my intention
<Jdubs> Hey apeiros :)
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<Jdubs> Working at startup sure is hard work man lol
<apeiros> viki: ok, then the method `.any?` is the wrong choice. it answer the question "does any item in this collection fulfill a condition?"
<Jdubs> work every day of the week!
<apeiros> Jdubs: haha
<apeiros> Jdubs: I hope it's fun at least?
<Jdubs> But it's worth it ;) You helped me get here!
<apeiros> viki: take a look at Enumerable#find
<Jdubs> Yeah, i'm making 5x what I've ever made in my life lol
<apeiros> viki: you know how to use docs?
<apeiros> Jdubs: ok, so it's worth it even if it isn't fun? :D
<Jdubs> nah its fun
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<apeiros> nice! so $$$ and fun
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<Jdubs> a lot of stress though with constant deadlines and fixing bugs that go live etc lol
<viki> apeiros: yes, i'll look for that
<apeiros> Jdubs: don't remember, got the girl too?
<Jdubs> must be constantly vigilant
<Jdubs> got married in december :)
<apeiros> congrats man!
<Jdubs> thanks!
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<Jdubs> today is a good weekend, our new api server went up and my app loads about 500% faster
<Jdubs> :)
<apeiros> glad to hear all worked out so excellent :D
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<Jdubs> errr
<Jdubs> this weekend is a good weekend*
<Jdubs> .today isnt a weekend lol
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<Jdubs> you working today too?
<apeiros> today ∈ weekend, though
<apeiros> kinda
<apeiros> helping a startup, lol
<Jdubs> for fun or $?
<apeiros> atm for fun
<Jdubs> you should come to silicon valley so i can buy you a beer :)
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<apeiros> they want to hire me. but that's difficult.
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<Jdubs> why is it difficult
<apeiros> Jdubs: :-S the US of A is on my no-fly list, sorry :(
<Jdubs> haha why is that
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<shevy> Jdubs they want your soul :(
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<apeiros> Jdubs: @difficult - well, I'm a liiiiittle bit expensive. and offering shares alone isn't sufficient to lure me in :)
<Jdubs> what do you mean they want your soul lol
<apeiros> Jdubs: @no-fly: because of their attitude. I have to wave all my rights just to be allowed to *try* to enter.
<apeiros> and the "wave all my rights" is *literally*, not just metaphorically
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<apeiros> they can detain my on a whim without recourse
<apeiros> without informing anybody
<apeiros> a country doing that is not one I want to visit
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<Jdubs> when do they do that?
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<Jdubs> if they suspect you're a terrorist or something?
<apeiros> Jdubs: them having the legal ability to do that is sufficiently off-putting
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<shevy> and search your laptop!
<apeiros> Jdubs: there have been records of innocent people being "disappeared", for years
<shevy> and if you don't reveal your passwords, they'll have your balls
<Jdubs> yeah, travelling to other countries in general is shitty nowadays
<RubyPanther> I'm an American, I'd be unlikely to fly too. The treatment at the security checkpoint is treatment that I am legally protected against at all other times. I happily go through the security at the Federal Building and the County Courthouse, and I am screened with respect.
<apeiros> Jdubs: also records of people being denied entries over tweets isn't very inviting
<Jdubs> i always get grilled when i visit the UK
<shevy> Jdubs swiss names sound so awful that everyone can be a potential terrorist :)
<Jdubs> one time they held me a few hours there lol
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<RubyPanther> Pity too, I love to fly. But I'd have to take a train to Canada in order to able to tolerate the experience without getting myself arrested
<apeiros> Jdubs: but do tell if/when you visit a conference outside the US this year
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<apeiros> I hope I can go to one too again this year
<apeiros> (I still have >40 days of holidays left, so even if company doesn't pay for it, I should be able to go :D)
<Jdubs> apeiros i usually visit the UK during christmas time
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<apeiros> Jdubs: add a flying visit to switzerland? :o)
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<Hanmac> shevy https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8030821376/h1F7156A2/ thats how HarryPotter should have been ;D
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<apeiros> viki: was the hint to Enumerable#find sufficient, or do you need more help?
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<Jdubs> apeiros might do haha. what's a good place to take the wife for holiday there?
<apeiros> everywhere!
<apeiros> switzerland is tiny and every place is nice and neat ;-D
<apeiros> do you enjoy skiing?
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<viki> apeiros: i read it, and now i'm trying something like: candies.find(ifnone = nil) { |candy| #someblockhere }
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<apeiros> viki: good! :)
<viki> i'm quite a bit slowed down now because i'm still borrowing my boyfriend's laptop, but i'm in it remotely on another monitor while he's using it :/
<apeiros> viki: you can do just `candies.find { |candy| #check whether candy matches here }`
<viki> might be better to just switch to windows
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<viki> oh, i don't have to include the (ifnone = nil) part?
<apeiros> no, the docs tell you there that the method takes one argument, and the default of that argument is `nil`
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<Jdubs> apeiros I like snowboarding :P
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<apeiros> they'll refer to the `ifnone` argument somewhere in the docs (telling you that if no element fulfills the condition, ifnone's value will be returned)
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<apeiros> Jdubs: in that case, I'd suggest something in the vicinity of Zermatt
<benzrf> hey can anybody look over my gem for major security holes
<apeiros> my brother lives there. Zermatt itself is a famous place (you can see the Matterhorn there) and there are good places to go skiing
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<Jdubs> sweet! Definitely might do :)
<apeiros> viki: if you move development to windows, you can sync the code on your boyfriends laptop via git
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<apeiros> viki: all you need to do is `git push` on the computer where you changed stuff, and `git pull` on the computer you'd like to get the new version of the code
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<apeiros> Jdubs: also Walliser (the people living there) have excellent wine and cheese ;-)
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<apeiros> Jdubs: so you'll enjoy great fondue and raclette with nice wines
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<viki> apeiros: i think i' just going to deal with it as is because i don't want to install dropbox on this computer
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<apeiros> viki: you'd not need dropbox with git. but you'd need to install git. but of course, it's your call how you deal with it.
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<benzrf> gggggit
<mjc_> apeiros: we are at my workplace and she's borrowing a computer
<viki> :o did it work?
<viki> candies.find { |candy| candy.type == piece}
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<apeiros> viki: reads right
<viki> mjc_: don't watch me! rawr
<apeiros> mjc_: hey! you're supposed to teach your GF ruby, not me :-p
<mjc_> she doesn't listen to me
<viki> i have no yelling filter up with him
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<apeiros> mjc_: change your nick and help her on irc! :o)
<mjc_> lol
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<mjc_> it took a week to even get her to ask for help here
<apeiros> I hope she didn't regret it
<viki> whatever yo
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<apeiros> viki, mjc_: I can understand that… for some reason it's easier for me to help complete strangers on irc than my wife (she's starting to code too)
<apeiros> somehow I'm horrible at helping her :(
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<viki> apeiros: seems pretty common, i heard similar stuff from somebody at rubyconf
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<animehti> what does String#lines do?
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<apeiros> animehti: do you know how to use `ri` or ruby-doc.org?
<benzrf> animehti: it's an enumerator of the lines in the string
<apeiros> benzrf: deprecated
<apeiros> benzrf: Array now
<benzrf> oh?
<benzrf> oh
<benzrf> how come?
<animehti> what does enumerator mean? I don't understand.
<apeiros> by much code, so change, very wow
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<apeiros> >> "hello".lines.class
<eval-in> apeiros => Array (https://eval.in/96969)
<apeiros> animehti: Enumerator is a class in ruby
<apeiros> >> "hello".each_line.class
<eval-in> apeiros => Enumerator (https://eval.in/96970)
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<alainus> I want to split a string at the center, resulting in two strings of equal length, discarding the central character if the string has uneven length. Examples: "abcdef" => ["abc", "def"] "abcdefg" => ["abc", "efg"]
<alainus> any tips?
<animehti> Is that what lines does?
<animehti> String#lines?
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<alainus> animehti, that seems to use \n as separator
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<apeiros> alainus: mid = str.length/2; a,b = str[0,mid], str[-mid,mid]
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<apeiros> s/mid/half/ - probably the better name
<alainus> apeiros, shouldn't you round half to lower bound to avoid fractions ?
<apeiros> alainus: integer division
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<apeiros> >> 5/2
<eval-in> apeiros => 2 (https://eval.in/96974)
<apeiros> so no, I don't have to round
<animehti> alainus oh ok
<viki> apeiros: I got the next 2 tests passing, gonna head out for now. Thanks very much!
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<apeiros> viki: you're welcome!
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<animehti> alainus so where there is a /n character, that's where the lines form if you use that method??
<alainus> animehti, i guess so
<animehti> how does eval-in do that
<apeiros> \n is the newline character
<alainus> apeiros, str[-mid, mid] do you mean [-mid, str.length] ?
<apeiros> alainus: no, I meant what I wrote
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<animehti> alainus, so if there isn't no \n then it doesn't work?
<Mon_Ouie> alainus: For the record, alainus asked about what String#lines did before you arrived, might help you to understand what's going on
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<apeiros> s/alainus asked/animehti/
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<Mon_Ouie> Oh
<alainus> ahh. i was confused about that
<Mon_Ouie> right
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<hj2007> hi everyone, I'm facing an issue while opening few csv files - "SocketError: Too many open files". But I'm opening only 4 files. Please help.
<apeiros> hj2007: means you probably don't close some you open priorly
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<hj2007> apeiros: Thanks for the reply. Can you please tell me how to close it? I'm using it like - "CSV.foreach('user.csv', :headers => true) do |row|"
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<Senjai> hj2007: It would automatically close at the end of the block
<Senjai> if you use a block
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<alainus> when defining a method that modifies the used string, do you have to reassign the variable Self ?
<apeiros> alainus: you can't assign to self
<benzrf> what
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<apeiros> also, self isn't really a variable
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<hj2007> Senjai: I'm using 'end' after I'm done, so that should close it, right?
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<apeiros> alainus: not sure what you're trying to do, you might want to take a look at #replace. but paste some code of what you try to do please.
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<alainus> apeiros, I just want to define what you did before as a cut_center! method on the String class that modifies the variable on which it is passed
<apeiros> alainus: String#cut_center! ?
<alainus> yes
<apeiros> how should that possibly work?
<apeiros> you get two values back from that
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<apeiros> you can't change the class of an object. i.e. you can't have x.class == String; x.foo!; x.class != String
<alainus> "abcdef".cut_center! => ["abc", "def"]; "abcdefg".cut_center! => ["abc", "efg"]
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<alainus> that's all
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<apeiros> yes, you can return the two values
<apeiros> but you can't turn your string into an array
<alainus> ah. ok then
<Senjai> hj2007: yes
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<Senjai> hj2007: Behind the scenes it should be Using File.open do |x| end, and File.open will close itself given a block.
<benzrf> in python you can change the class of an object
<hj2007> Senjai: But I'm still getting "SocketError: Too many open files"
<benzrf> it seems ruby is sadly limited
<benzrf> :I
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<Senjai> hj2007: Right, so do you have too many open files:?
<apeiros> benzrf: ruby is strongly typed, python obviously isn't
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<benzrf> it is
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<hj2007> Senjai: I'm opening and closing (using end) files one by one. I have four files in all.
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<benzrf> i was joking when i said ruby was sadly limited ;p
<apeiros> well, it is limited in that regard
<Senjai> hj2007: Can you gist your code and some sample data?
<benzrf> anyway if you actually change the class of an object in python you will probably be run out of town with pitchforks
<apeiros> but that's a limitation I gladly accept :)
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<apeiros> benzrf: if you cheat, you can change the class of an object in ruby too
<hj2007> Senjai: sure, just a sec please
<benzrf> orly
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<apeiros> I'm sure charliesome even did some evil trickery to be able to do that in pure ruby
<apeiros> else, there's evil.rb
<benzrf> evil.rb?
<Senjai> apeiros: There is also Fiddle.
<Karkizz> hello everyone, ive never programmed anything and im looking to start doing it.
<Senjai> don't forget Fiddle
<benzrf> fiddle?
<Senjai> Fiddle lets you do many horrible things
<benzrf> Karkizz: hello!
<Senjai> Karkizz: codecademy.com
<benzrf> Karkizz: congrats
<Mon_Ouie> benzrf: A file that contains evil stuff
<benzrf> Karkizz: i would recommend starting with python over ruby
<apeiros> benzrf: evil.rb adds some evil methods to ruby. the versions I knew used dlopen for that.
<benzrf> Karkizz: but that is just my opinion
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<Senjai> In Fiddle, you can do the worst things evar
<Karkizz> i have c++ at school and i havent even started yet, im barely keeping a positive mark
<apeiros> benzrf: I think we should run you out of town, with pitchforks
<benzrf> :-D
<hj2007> Senjai: And all four files that I'm using here are of size around 1 Mb
<Senjai> Karkizz: School doesn't mean anything.
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<benzrf> Karkizz: c++ is the worst
<benzrf> forget c++
<RubyPanther> even doing it in C got a lot harder with Ruby 2
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<Karkizz> why?
<RubyPanther> The code is cleaner :(
<benzrf> it is basically 1 billion random language features bolted onto C
<Senjai> hj2007: And the errors? Can you paste those too
<benzrf> without much reason or design
<benzrf> or so im told
<benzrf> i have not attempted to learn it
<Senjai> Karkizz: 50% of my coworkers are self taught, the other 50% claimed they dont use 80% of what they learned in school
<benzrf> nor do i intend to
<Senjai> Karkizz: My CEO barely graduated
<Karkizz> im 17, is it too late to start?
<RubyPanther> Most of the old tricks fail now, like the one that Gtk was using to create the object first, and then set the type later, which was useful because of the GObject semantics
<benzrf> what is the dl module
<ekarlso> im self tought, no graduation here in anything related to computing
<benzrf> Karkizz: i am 16
<hj2007> Senjai: updated gist with the error, please have a look
<Senjai> Karkizz: I started at 22, I'm 23 with a job, so yeah.
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<Karkizz> I still need to program in C++ for school
<RubyPanther> Karkizz: Too late to be the awesomest implementer of tricky details, but not to late to just be great
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<apeiros> benzrf: no wonder you're at some days full of shit - puberty :-p
<Karkizz> but im looking taking up 2 languages simultaneously
<apeiros> j/k (though, python over ruby, that was BS :-p)
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<Senjai> hj2007: Ahh, you're using jruby. Firstly, I'm not sure what Neography does, I don't think the issue is with the CSV#foreach. Your errors are happening on line 11, in create_person
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<Senjai> hj2007: In linux, the default number of file descriptors, which can be a file, a socket, or whatever is 75000 per logged in user
<Senjai> And each process has a limit as well
<Senjai> Karkizz: Do all of the codecademy content, then you'll know what to pick
<Senjai> hj2007: reate_person at test3.rb:11
<Senjai> (root) at test3.rb:82
<hj2007> Senjai: Actually if I use very small files having 5-6 lines, then this code works fine
<Karkizz> all?
<Senjai> hj2007: Right, so I am thinking there is some very magical things going on around create_person
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<Senjai> hj2007: When analyzing error messages, the first thing you want to do is look for the first backtrace line that your program is responsible for
<Senjai> and step it out from there
<Senjai> Karkizz: www.codecademy.com/Senjaik
<Senjai> Karkizz: www.codecademy.com/Senjai
<hj2007> Senjai: Yes, I'm not tracking error properly. This is the first time I'm coding in Ruby.
<Senjai> Karkizz: That's what I did, then I picked ruby because I liked it most, nothing else factored into that decision
<Senjai> hj2007: Right, but its not because of CSV#foreach
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<Senjai> hj2007: Something else is creating sockets in your code
<hj2007> Senjai: So should I not just increase the limit of file descriptors?
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<Senjai> hj2007: No,
<Karkizz> is ruby web programming language?
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<Senjai> hj2007: If you have a program that uses way too much memory, do you buy extra memory, or find out why its using way more than it should?
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<Senjai> Karkizz: No, Rails is a web development framework built with ruby, ruby is just a generic language used for many non web things as well.
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<hj2007> Senjai: ok, thank you. Let me investigate and get back to you :)
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<Senjai> hj2007: look
<Senjai> hj2007: $persons[id] = create_person(name, id, ""
<Senjai> hj2007: line 82
<benzrf> Karkizz: it can be for web
<Senjai> hj2007: For every single line in that CSV, it calls create_person
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<Senjai> hj2007: create_person probably creates or opens a file
<Senjai> hj2007: or a socket
<Senjai> hj2007: 75000 csv lines = 75000 file descriptos
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<Senjai> hj2007: which would explain why it works for small files and not large ones
<benzrf> does ' extend self' do anything at all
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<Hanmac> benzrf: yes
<hj2007> Senjai: Yes, but create_person has "end". So after that function call ends for a particular line in csv, doesn't it close that socket?
<benzrf> Hanmac: what?
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<Senjai> hj2007: You're fundementally misunderstanding ruby. a function does not clsoe all file descriptors by default. CSV.foreach does because CSV.foreach has been programmed to do so behind the scenes
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<Senjai> hj2007: I would look into Neography::Node.create("name" => name, "id" => id, "movies" => movies)
<Senjai> There are hacky ways of getting past the open file descriptors with the garbage collector, but its not the solution, so I won't tell you how
<agent_white> Afternoon folks
<Hanmac> apeiros: its possible to change the class of an object ... but only with massive voodoo ;P
<benzrf> afternoon, agent_white
<apeiros> Hanmac: I know. and if you read on, you'll see that I said that too.
<benzrf> Hanmac: python -> "some_obj.__class__ = Wtf"
<benzrf> :O
<Hanmac> benzrf look at module_function .... extend self are for the ones that are lazy
<agent_white> benzrf: Not sure if it was you I was talking about it with... but I'm startin on my parsing project today! :D
<Senjai> benzrf: extend self = your doing it wrong
<benzrf> nice!
<benzrf> agent_white: hows it working?
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<benzrf> Hanmac: doesn't extend foo take the methods from foo and put them into self?
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<hj2007> Senjai: ok I'll look into create node method
<benzrf> ohhh the /instance/ methods
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<benzrf> depr
<benzrf> *derp
<Senjai> hj2007: I'd also look into purchasing Programming Ruby 1.9 & 2.0, it's a great book
<agent_white> benzrf: Ah I'm working out the kinks at the moment... these ID3 tag specs are terrible. D: But once I get my basic functions down, I'm thinking of using TreeTop to put it all together?
<benzrf> id3?
<agent_white> Ah reading mp3 file tags :) Just wanting to snag the artist/album/track
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<benzrf> also, I thought treetop was the kind of thing you are trying to imitate?
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<neoice> is it considered a bad practice to use .send() frequently? I feel like it solves a lot of interesting problems.
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<Senjai> agent_white: Sounds like afun thing to do, with or without threads?
<benzrf> neoice: you shouldnt have to use it very often..
<hj2007> Senjai: Thanks for the suggestion. Right now I'm learning from Codeacademy. But I would consider buying that book.
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<agent_white> benzrf: I guess that's what my question was! Also need to look into Structs a bit it sounds like, havent' played with em much.
<Senjai> hj2007: I started with Codecademy too (I'm still a moderator there), and I bought the book after finishing the ruby course
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<agent_white> benzrf: And the extent I've used threads is writing a very simple socket... so maybe I'll give it a whirl :)
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<neoice> benzrf: I'm working on an algorithm that takes a list and a hash and prints a table out. the list is the table "header" and then also drives the values of the columns
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<hj2007> Senjai: oh nice :)
<Senjai> agent_white: For large amounts of mp3's, I would compile a list of all of them, chunk them, and give them to seperate threads or processes to iterate through
<Senjai> agent_white: It'd be a good way to learn and fiddle with threading
<neoice> benzrf: going to be something like: row.send("#{col}")
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<agent_white> Senjai: Roger that! Thank you for the heads up :)
<Mon_Ouie> But you said it was a hash? So that would be row[col]
<Hanmac> neoice: this can work too mostly : row.send(col)
<Mon_Ouie> ("#{col}" is a complicated way to write col.to_s and unneeded if col is already a string)
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<neoice> Mon_Ouie: I think you made me realize that my "table rows" would be better represented as a list. that makes it sortable too.
<Senjai> neoice: Yep, think about it. For me I talk it out allowed to determine the best relationship. A table has many rows. has many usually indicates a list
<Senjai> aloud*
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<neoice> so a list of objects, .send(col) still the best way to access values inside those objects?
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<neoice> ideally, I want to be able to add/remove headers and have the table automatically match
<neoice> feels like there's probably a gem for this.
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<Senjai> neoice: You never want to use send
<Senjai> neoice: There are very few cases where send is appropriate
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<Senjai> neoice: Send is pretty much like: "I don't care what access rules you have in place for x, do it anyway"
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<Hanmac> neoice: public_send would be better
<Senjai> If you need to make a dynamic call use public_send
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<Senjai> damnit Hanmac
<Senjai> :P
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<Hanmac> Senjai: use only send when the alternative would be eval ;P
<Senjai> Hanmac: s/alternative/only alternative
<neoice> til "public_send"
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<Senjai> neoice: The difference is, public send won't let you call protected and private methods :P
<neoice> I am trying to be aware of public/private/protected, so bypassing that is *not* my intention
<Senjai> neoice: Still, I'd avoid using send unless the method call HAS to be dynamic
<neoice> I don't think any of the pages I've read even mentioned that.
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<Senjai> neoice: if you get in the habit of metaprogramming when you don't need to you end up with horrible REALLY bad programming shit like https://github.com/spree/spree_social/blob/master/app/controllers/spree/omniauth_callbacks_controller.rb
<Senjai> Who would let that in?
<neoice> Senjai: "foo.each do |x| Obj.public_send(x)" is that too wacky? is there a better equivalent that I am unaware of?
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<Senjai> neoice: I'd need to see the context of your code
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<neoice> Senjai: this particular chunk doesnt exist yet, I'm actually scribbling designs on paper right now
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<Senjai> neoice: Don't design up front :)
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<Senjai> neoice: Test driven development ftw
<Senjai> neoice: 80% of the time, Big up front design will not turn out how you imagine it, it's almost certainly a waste of time
<phenster> hey everyone. if I have a 2 page simple Sinatra application, *when* will I need to have "tmp" and "public" directories created for deployment with apache/passenger or nginx/passenger?
<neoice> I haven't experimented with the ruby/rails test frameworks enough to know what I like.
<Senjai> neoice: Then just start hacking away
<Senjai> neoice: Go top down
<Senjai> neoice: Start with the most concrete classes, and work your way down making abstractions as you go
<AntelopeSalad> just use the default one until you have a reason/need to switch
<neoice> Senjai: I have been hacking away. I still find some value in scribbling a page or two of notes, maybe writing an algorithm on paper.
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<Senjai> neoice: Algorithms are cool, but this is implimentation, not design
<Mon_Ouie> neoice: I'd probably make it so you can just access each field with YourClass#[]
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<Senjai> neoice: Try something, and when you have code, share it and ask how it might be refactored
<Senjai> neoice: Just do it, even it breaks horribly :P
<Senjai> A lot of times, in top down development, I'll be using classes I haven't even created yet, and work that way
<Senjai> "Uhh, I need something that handles connections, and gives me messages I need, okay, ConnectionManagerThingy.messages_for(self)"
<Senjai> and then when i need to, I'll define that
<Senjai> and work my way down
<neoice> I do really enjoy how easy it is to do that style of work in Ruby
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<neoice> I have a bunch of stub functionality or places where I've just copy&pasted to get a prototype working
<Senjai> neoice: Test Driven Development encourages top down design. Because you use things before they're implimented
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<Senjai> neoice: But never do bottom up, e.g. I'll start with the Connection class, then impliment the class that manages Connections
<neoice> I used one of the metaprogramming tricks to replace 6 different 1 line functions, stuff like calculate_{foo,bar,baz}
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<Senjai> neoice: Remember, that metaprogramming is an awesome tool, but its lethal. There are very few occasions where its better than solid design
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<mentok> hi there, anybody have time for a newbie question?
<Senjai> neoice: If i did that in myh code review at work, It wouldn't go through
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<Senjai> neoice: This is why, metaprogramming things like that 1) Don't increase readability, and usability, 2) make error messages and backtraces misleading
<pontiki> hallo
<neoice> Senjai: people would prefer copy&paste functions?
<Senjai> o/ pontiki
<pontiki> Senjai :)
<Senjai> neoice: Yep, that way they can be overriden nicely
<Senjai> and reused
<neoice> I did kind of have a moment afterwards where I looked at the code and thought "huh, no one else will understand this later"
<Senjai> and backtraces will point to the write line if any errors are generated
<Senjai> right*
<Senjai> neoice: Put it this way, C and C++ programmers, can fix the same problems without our "magical" metaprogramming things.
<mjc_> Apeiros: haha Viki fought me for a week about getting on IRC and now she has irccloud installed on her phone. You must've done something right :P
<Senjai> neoice: So there is always a design pattern that can be applied that would be better than metaprogramming like that
<Senjai> pontiki: Guess what I had to deal with yesterday
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<neoice> Senjai: when might metaprogramming be appropriate? I was having so much fun with it :P
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<RubyPanther> I'm not convinced that "C does it another way" proves that metaprogramming is always poor design
<Senjai> neoice: almost never, defining functions on other classes or extending classes dynamically based on external input
<Senjai> which is kinda scary
<Senjai> RubyPanther: Agreed, but there are almost always better solutions
<RubyPanther> metaprogramming should only be the first choice in a prototype, or testing, sure
<pontiki> what, Senjai ?
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<RubyPanther> A lot of people from other languages would look at a mixin and call it metaprogramming, but mixins are what we usually do instead of metaprogramming
<Senjai> RubyPanther: Right
<neoice> I'm
<pontiki> i have no blanket objection to metaprogramming
<RubyPanther> but if you look at a framework like rails, a lot of good features involve metaprogramming techniques that would otherwise (and used to) use method_missing, and the metaprogramming is actually to clean things up
<pontiki> i wouldn't even call it necessarily improper design
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<RubyPanther> if it is my code, yeah, I probably was being a clever idiot lol
<Senjai> neoice: Looking at the example I just posted, you could define a method, and for each provider, alias the method.
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<pontiki> but it's a fun sword to brandish and you can cut yourself on it easily
<Senjai> pontiki: I guess I'm exagerrating the cutting vs slaying of monsters
<Senjai> method_missing is a tool I use everyday
<zahna> exit
<BackEndCoder> hi is this where i can find out about Retraining of Racehorses
<zahna> oops, sorry
<Senjai> BackEndCoder: Yep
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<pontiki> channel #ruby: saving racehorses from the glue factory daily
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<mjc_> Senjai: do you make sure to also override respond_to?
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<BackEndCoder> :)
<Senjai> mjc_: Newpe.
<Mon_Ouie> It's respond_to_missing? that you should override
<Senjai> mjc_: I don't use it that way
<mjc_> also method_missing can be brittle
<Senjai> https://gist.github.com/Senjai/91363dce2d0f3e569161 is one of the ways we use it in our codebase
<Senjai> to catch action mailer delivery issues, because we use user input for the templates
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<bradding> so I am trying to connect my application to postgresql and I am getting a error, but I am able to connect to the database on the command line so I am sure I am giving it the correct username and password
<RubyPanther> BackEndCoder: If you can train your racehorse to be a big pony we can probably find a job for it on a website somewhere: http://stuff.rubypanther.com/images/pony-200.gif
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<BackEndCoder> :)
<Senjai> bradding: Is your sql server on the same machine as your ruby server?
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<bradding> Senjai, no, does it need to be?
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<Senjai> bradding: No, If it was I'd use ident auth instead.
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<bradding> Senjai, does the test database have to be local, or can they all be remote?
<Senjai> bradding: test database should always be local
<Senjai> no reason for it ever to be remote
<Senjai> unless your worried about response time over a connection.
<Senjai> ATAL: Ident authentication failed for user "onemonth"
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<Senjai> Your using Ident auth on a remote server, which you can't
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<bradding> when I run "rake db:migrate" which locations is it trying to make, test, dev, prod?
<Senjai> bradding: By default, development
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<Senjai> bradding: YOu can specify explicitly like this: RAILS_ENV=staging be rake db:migrate
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<Senjai> be means bundle exec on my machine
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<bradding> so if I want it different I have to specify it
<Senjai> bradding: Yep
<Senjai> RAILS_ENV=test rake db:migrate
<Senjai> or rake db:test:prepare
<bradding> Senjai, what does db:test:prepare do?
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<Senjai> reading that
<Senjai> bradding: this is #rubyonrails question, I should stop answering it here :P
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<bradding> Senjai, I can try switching over there, I am just configured why I can get it to work on the command line with psql but not in the aplication
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<alainus> how can i turn [[a,b], [c,d], [e,f]] into [a,c,e] ?
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<Mon_Ouie> .map(&:first)
<Senjai> Mon_Ouie: That was a pretty obvious homework question, shh :P
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<Mon_Ouie> Senjai: I don't think it makes a difference anyway
<Karkizz> Python over Ruby or Ruby over Python?
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<Senjai> Karkizz: Whatever you like more
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<Karkizz> The less web oriented it is, the better. SO which one of them is it?
<Senjai> Karkizz: Ruby isn't web orientated at all, neither is python
<pontiki> flip a coin
<Senjai> Rails != Ruby
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<Senjai> Django != Python
<Karkizz> Sure, pontiki
<pontiki> either one you pic, you'll have things you like a lot, and things you loathe
<pontiki> doesn't really matter much
<Senjai> Karkizz: Both are fine, just pick the one you can stand to program in 8 hours a day
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<Karkizz> Okay, so if tails = ruby and if heads = python
<supersym> for?
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<waxjar> >> ["ruby", "python"].sample
<eval-in> waxjar => "python" (https://eval.in/96995)
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<waxjar> it's gonna be python :<
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<AntelopeSalad> to be completely honest i like python a lot more than ruby, but i use ruby a lot more than python for web dev
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<Karkizz> I got tails
<havenwood> I like Ruby a lot more than Python.
<havenwood> Personal preference.
<RubyPanther> I already know indentation being meaningful sucks. I learned that from COBOL
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<benzrf> i enjoy using ruby more than i enjoy usng python
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<benzrf> but i feel like python is better designed in a number of ways
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<marius__> Hi! Here is my code https://gist.github.com/mariusavram91/8759276
<AntelopeSalad> only thing i really like is that most code looks about the same
<AntelopeSalad> in ruby i get scared out of my pants looking at some code haha
<Karkizz> I would like to implement Ruby into game development
<marius__> How could I send the output in real time? Thanks!
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<RubyPanther> python is fine, I used it for some online classes, and I rarely had to look anything up in order to alter the provided code to do whatever. Even for the "self driving car" class, the code itself was always straightforward
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<pontiki> just one random quote from one of the guys who wrote python is that he wishes he'd done ruby instead
<Karkizz> So you recomment me Python?
<pontiki> i recommend you learn both, really well
<Karkizz> recommend*
<pontiki> stop this notion of "i have to learn only one language"
<Mon_Ouie> It's probably not a big deal which one you decide to learn (or start with)
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<RubyPanther> If you're only going to learn 1 language it better be C
<Karkizz> I'm actually looking for the opposite
<pontiki> it's like painting yourself into a corner
<havenwood> Karkizz: I'd recommend you learn Ruby. Then branch out to a functional language like Clojure or Scheme.
<pontiki> LEARN ALL THE LANGUAGES
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<pontiki> <image of crazy blonde lady shaking mop>
<AntelopeSalad> i think ppl get too defensive over languages, it's definitely not a mistake to learn both
<AntelopeSalad> i always learn new stuff when i try out a new language that i can apply to all languages
<havenwood> Karkizz: First lang is the hardest. Don't ruin yourself with one way to do it. There is more than one way to do it!
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<benzrf> pontiki: what guy who did python prefers ruby
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<Karkizz> how do I PM here?
<RubyPanther> You're not supposed to memorize everything, so you can't learn too many. The basic concepts will be the same so it will always be easy to look up details for whatever you're using at the time
<benzrf> Karkizz: /msg
<benzrf> RubyPanther: basic concepts arent the same in haskell ;)
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<RubyPanther> benzrf: they are if you've learned LISP already
<benzrf> not entiiiirely
<benzrf> ;p
<RubyPanther> and Ruby supports basic functional programming style, so if you learn Ruby completely, you should already be able to understand the concepts
<benzrf> anyway Lisp stopped being fullcaps like decades ago
<benzrf> get with the times man
<marius__> anyone please?
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<benzrf> marius__: hm?
<RubyPanther> marius__: you lost me at "real time"\
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<Karkizz> how do I quote and PM here? Can anyone explain?
<benzrf> Karkizz: /msg
<Karkizz> ./msg username
<Karkizz> like this?
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<waxjar> /msg username hi username!
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<Karkizz> and reply?
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<waxjar> most clients open up a new query window where you can then just chat as normal
<marius__> I'm a noob and I'm trying to send the output of a continuous ping for instance to an opened socket, but it doesn't work
<lifestream> You could do the same to reply, benzrf. /msg benzrf Hi, I'm replying
<lifestream> Though the /msg has to be the very first thing you type
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<Karkizz> Well, it looks like I'll take up Ruby, although it's mostly web orientated language. Can I do anything else with it? A few examples would really help.
<pontiki> benzrf: i don't know, it was something i saw in passing a while back
<pontiki> i can't claim it is true
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<benzrf> Karkizz: it is NOT mostly web oriented
<benzrf> ಠ_ಠ
<agent_white> Karkizz: Write websites, manage and deploy servers, write sockets, write tic-tac-toe...
<Karkizz> Why my message doesn't show up to me when I use ./msg?
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<CourtJesterG> ./msg Karkizz: I dunno
<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, hey
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<mjc_> ruby is pretty good as a replacement for shell scripts too
<g0bl1n> :)
<marius__> now it only stores the output in the buffer (if it has an instant output) and when it's finished it sends it...
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<CourtJesterG> check out salt and what it can do with shells and such communication protocals of receiving and sending information
<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: hey!
<g0bl1n> jwhorto1, still no solution :)
<jwhorto1> g0bl1n: nope :((
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<RubyPanther> yeah bash is exceptionally painful
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<marius__> thanks
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<shevy> test
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<shevy> am I back?
<marius__> shevy: yes
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<Karkizz> marius, are you LT?
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<apeiros> why on earth does ap depend on httparty? o0
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<shevy> phew... I am back ...
<shevy> you can't imagine how boring it is without access to www
<shevy> I had to read a book :(
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<supersym> not exactly the same thing but ... sigh, why do I need to get a ~~gravatar~~ wordpress account to change my pic at github ><
<apeiros> d'oh, ap != awesome_print
<supersym> that is so lame
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<marius__> nh
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<shevy> supersym yea
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<shevy> ok let's dance
* shevy dances
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<BackEndCoder> alright ?
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<BackEndCoder> so this bloke asked me to make something for him in ruby
<BackEndCoder> i've never touched it before
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<BackEndCoder> is there a 'best' place framework to use at this point ?
<BackEndCoder> from a php background i know its the better idea to work in the framework you are best at
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<shevy> wat
<shevy> wat is the question
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<shevy> mylittlebenzrf are you playing mylittlepony again
<mylittlebenzrf> yus
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<apeiros> BackEndCoder: "something" isn't telling much
<apeiros> given your reference of php, it sounds like "something" was a website?
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<BackEndCoder> its a website/api app thing
<BackEndCoder> he wants it in ruby cause apprently its easyer to emply high level developers that know ruby
<BackEndCoder> its new to me
<mylittlebenzrf> oh man php
<mylittlebenzrf> php is truly awful
<BackEndCoder> yeah i want to get out of php
<BackEndCoder> would be nice to get ruby on my cv
<BackEndCoder> i'm up for learning it.. but i'm assuming i'm going to be jumping into a framwork
<BackEndCoder> we have all heard of rails.. but thats not going to be the only one
<BackEndCoder> maybe there is something out there thats a bit newer, or better for this purpose
<BackEndCoder> as long as it follows mvc i'm not that bothered
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<apeiros> BackEndCoder: sadly ruby-toolbox.com seems to be having difficulties atm, otherwise I'd have referred you there.
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<apeiros> BackEndCoder: some webframeworks for ruby: ruby on rails, sinatra, ramaze, merb
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<apeiros> there are quite a bit more
<shevy> BackEndCoder go sinatra
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<waxjar> start out with just ruby, then try out some sinatra and learn a little about http
<apeiros> I think padrino aims at API things
<shevy> BackEndCoder if you only want www stuff, stay with php :>
<mylittlebenzrf> BackEndCoder: sinatra is sort of bare-bones is
<BackEndCoder> so would ruby allow me to use a hybrid
<shevy> hybrid corn?
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<lagweezle> viki: Any luck getting the thing to work?
<BackEndCoder> maybe a framework for apis and a framework for web pages ?
<mylittlebenzrf> BackEndCoder: sinatra basically wraps http in a nice api, but does not enforce much in the way of setup or constraints
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<apeiros> hm, seems just a rogue JS on ruby-toolbox
<BackEndCoder> i would hoping for something where conventions will allow me to keep configureation to a minimum
<BackEndCoder> thanks
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<mylittlebenzrf> BackEndCoder: sounds like rails then
<waxjar> rails is famous for its "convention over configuration" mantra iirc
<BackEndCoder> so as ruby developers you would probably be able to code a few different frameworks ?
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<mylittlebenzrf> BackEndCoder: in sinatra you just bind blocks to urls, and it gives you a nice api to access request data and control the result
<RubyPanther> rails, camping, sinatra, CGI, whatever
<mylittlebenzrf> BackEndCoder: i have not used much else, cannot inform you about that
<BackEndCoder> cool
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<waxjar> you're probably gonna have a harder time understanding ruby than undertanding the framewoek BackEndCoder
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<BackEndCoder> thanks for giving me a ball park guys
<BackEndCoder> i should be alright with the learning part
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<BackEndCoder> i had a job once going in VBA once for no reason
<mylittlebenzrf> ew
<BackEndCoder> i managed to make an app
<BackEndCoder> i know right
<viki> lagweezle: Yup, apeiros gave me some tips after I tried something else. Lemme see if I can show you what i did (on my phone)
<mylittlebenzrf> not as ew as php
<mylittlebenzrf> php is truly horrific
<mylittlebenzrf> o_O
<RubyPanther> As long as you focus on the language and not the framework, then you can use anything. If you learn backwards and learn a framework first, then you'll be stunted and everything else is hard
<mylittlebenzrf> BackEndCoder: anyway i recommend learning ruby reasonably well before doin web stuff
<BackEndCoder> yeah thats the same problem with cake.. if you don't know php already
<lagweezle> viki: Your boyfriend is a lucky man. ;)
<BackEndCoder> a lot of the questions in the help channel are problems relating to not knowing php in the first place
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<mjc_> after using cake from 2008ish to last feburary, I am so glad I dumped it for rails
<BackEndCoder> i'm not planning on dumping it, but i certainly want to expand my knowledge into ruby
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<mylittlebenzrf> php is god awful
<mylittlebenzrf> sorry i feel strongly about this ~_~
<mjc_> cake is so verbose and obtuse
<mylittlebenzrf> anyway g2g
<BackEndCoder> i know i know, even people that use php say that all the time
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<mjc_> I had no idea how much extra work it was taking to do anything
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<mjc_> and all the stuff I wrote turned into hundreds of lines of incomprehensible garbage
<RubyPanther> who else needs to say it? if you just say "no" then you can sit back and laugh at PHP without emotional attachment
<BackEndCoder> i think, like with any framework. if you know the hacks it will always turn out better
<BackEndCoder> thats the problem with coding in a lang thats designed to be coded faster. there is always a problem with speed
<RubyPanther> I disagree, the less rails-y whatthewhat you know, the better your rails app will be
<BackEndCoder> it cuts too many courners assuming defaults
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<BackEndCoder> fair enough
<mjc_> you are better off learning ruby separately first
<mjc_> than learning rails directly
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<BackEndCoder> seen
<BackEndCoder> thanks for the imput
<BackEndCoder> i will get on with some tutorials
<lagweezle> I completely agree about learning ruby first, then rails.
<mjc_> I was where you were a year ago, helped a lot
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<RubyPanther> Camping has a big advantage... there are no shortcuts, you're going off trail on your own
<lagweezle> About a half year ago mabye was my intro to ruby+rails. Trying to do both from zer oat once was PAINFUL.
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<AntelopeSalad> i did both at once minus just reading a single book on ruby before i touched rails
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<viki> lagweezle: here's what worked https://gist.github.com/VikiAnn/8760533
<AntelopeSalad> not easy imo, ruby has been the toughest language for me to get a decent grasp of
<lagweezle> Interesting.
<bleak> really? ruby makes so much sense to me
<mjc_> lagweezle: she is awesome, isn'ts he :P
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<bleak> i started on PHP though :<
<lagweezle> mjc_: Dude, she's on IRC from her phone!
<mjc_> lagweezle: I'm sitting right next to her :P
<mjc_> viki: :P
<AntelopeSalad> bleak: i like looking at source code, if you're new to ruby and try to look at something like the rails source
<lagweezle> mjc_: I figured you were nearby / her BF. Just kinda of agreeing by way of exclamation.
<AntelopeSalad> you're going to explode
<mjc_> ah, heh
<mjc_> AntelopeSalad: too much metaprogramming in rails' source for that yeah
<mjc_> sinatra is pretty OK for that
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<RubyPanther> You have to read the rails source to understand rails, but rails is a horse designed by committee, and implemented by a committee, etc
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<lagweezle> AntelopeSalad: wonderful name :)
<AntelopeSalad> thanks
<RubyPanther> You're better off studying an app than a framework for learning Ruby. the metaprogramming stuff in frameworks is good, it allows automatic behaviors that are useful, but that stuff is messy to implement
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<adedommelin> hi
<centrx> Ahoy
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<adedommelin> I'm feeling like stupid ... I'm working on migrating a website to a version generated using bonsai (static website generator using liquid templates), and I can't get to display only the 10 last elements of a hash containing some data "reversed" ... not sure if it's the right place to ask but it worth a try :)
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<adedommelin> it seems that you cannot combine limit / offset + reversed
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<adedommelin> here's the corresponding snippet : https://gist.github.com/adedommelin/a87cc8f9953d348ac4dc
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<centrx> adedommelin, Not sure what you mean, can't you just do hash.take(10)
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<centrx> or hash.to_a.last(10)
<centrx> Not sure why you would use a hash for ordered data
<centrx> Why not use an array?
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<RubyPanther> Ruby hashes are ordered, you just can't re-order easily
<adedommelin> centrx: ooops my bad, of course this is an array
<adedommelin> start to be quite late here
<centrx> Okay, I am not sure what the syntax is in the gist, but you can slice an array with just: array[5..10] or array[5, 5]
<centrx> or array.last(5)
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<RubyPanther> adedommelin: if you're talking limit offset I'm wondering if that is an array, or a database ORM?
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<adedommelin> RubyPanther: it's pure attributes provided by liquid (https://github.com/Shopify/liquid/wiki/Liquid-for-Designers#for-loops)
<adedommelin> in this case, children is a variable generated by bonsai
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