apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.0-p0; 2.0.0-p353; 1.9.3-p484: http://ruby-lang.org|| Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<wald0> thx centrx
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<kraljev1> Is there any more elegant way to remap Hash values than this:
<kraljev1> Hash[ hash.map { |k, v|
<kraljev1> [k, v.map(&:upcase)]
<kraljev1> } ]
<kraljev1> Something like
<kraljev1> hash.map_values(&:upcase)
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<centrx> There must be :)
<benzrf> kraljev1: define it o:
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<kraljev1> It has happened to me quite a few times I needed someting like this
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<benzrf> kraljev1: define something
<benzrf> open classes
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<kraljev1> Sure. But does anyone thinks this is very essential
<kraljev1> that it should come in-built
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<kraljev1> nothing?
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<centrx> kraljev1, hold on I am playing chess
<centrx> kraljev1, brb
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<centrx> damn I just lost cause of you
<wald0> with dynamic code execution, can I write a programm that write programs itself ?
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<centrx> kraljev1, but I am confident I have the answer
<centrx> wald0, Yes
<wald0> that is my goal, with a caipirinha in some tropical place :)
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<wald0> centrx: sounds like AI
<benzrf> wald0: ever written a quine
<benzrf> :)
<kraljev1> chess is cool
<centrx> wald0, As I recall this was done on the space shuttle to push code changes without downtime
<kraljev1> I was training it
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<wald0> centrx: you mean dynamic code execution, right? or AI that coes itself? lol
<wald0> codes*
<centrx> wald0, dynamic code
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<centrx> kraljev1, Okay so you really have a hash at every value in the hash, hashes inside a hash?
<benzrf> wald0: have you ever written a quine
<centrx> kraljev1, Otherwise I don't think: Hash[hash.map { |k,v| [k, v.upcase] }] is that inelegant
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<centrx> kraljev1, You could also do: [hash.keys, hash.values.map(&:upcase)].to_h in Ruby >=2.0
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<wald0> benzrf: nope, and im just reading "what is a quine" in google :)
<benzrf> wald0: a program that prints its own code
<benzrf> wald0: it is easy if you just open the program's source file
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<benzrf> wald0: but it is tricky if you require none of that kind of cheating
<benzrf> an empty program in ruby is a quine
<benzrf> but rule that out and you have a nice challenge
<benzrf> :)
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<wald0> benzrf: it sounds very intersting, but id ont understand very good "how it works"
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<benzrf> see if you can work it out ;p
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<benzrf> i couldnt, but maybe you can!
<kraljev1> centrx, thanks
<benzrf> there is a certain trick to it
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<kraljev1> except that your last solution would not work
<kraljev1> >> Hash[[1,2,3],[:a,:b,:c]]
<wald0> eval s="print 'eval s=';p s"
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<wald0> this is a quine in ruby? mmh...
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<centrx> kraljev1, That is how Array#to_h works, not Hash[]
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<benzrf> wald0: nice o_o
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<benzrf> try doing it without eval though
<benzrf> ;)
<kraljev1> >> [[1,2,3],[:a,:b,:c]].to_h
<kraljev1> i have ruby 2.0, #to_h is undefined
<benzrf> wald0: did you write that?
<wald0> benzrf: in fact i dont understand it (wikipedia quote), what it does? what is it is meant to do ? i dont gotcha
<benzrf> wald0: when you run that code, it prints out itself
<benzrf> if you run
<benzrf> eval s="print 'eval s=';p s"
<benzrf> the output is
<benzrf> eval s="print 'eval s=';p s"
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<barntzen> Hey there
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<benzrf> sup barntzen
<benzrf> hows it goin
<barntzen> I think I need some help with getting a Ruby app running
<benzrf> barntzen: what kinda app is it
<centrx> kraljev1, I guess it is introduced in 2.1.0 not 2.0.0
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<barntzen> I know this isn't support for that app, but just curious as to if someone can point something out that I'm missing :)
<benzrf> barntzen: a web app? a game?
<wald0> benzrf: and whats the interesting thing on it ? i can connect my keyboard to a printer too and will do the same job lol
<barntzen> GitLab
<centrx> kraljev1, I was mislead by the title of an article
<benzrf> wald0: well, try writing your own program to do that
<benzrf> wald0: ;)
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<benzrf> wald0: that is, a program whose output is its own source
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<wald0> benzrf: nah, this doesn't makes sense, that stuff was just "copypasting" itself, there's no magic or anything feautre on that
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<barntzen> It's dying when I do bundle exec rake -A assets:precompile RAILS_ENV=production
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<wald0> as said, connecting my keyboard to another computer or a printer will do the same
<wald0> the thing is, a program that DECIDES what to write
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<benzrf> wald0: ok. go ahead and write your own
<wald0> benzrf: a program whose output is its own source == for infinite loop ; something
<benzrf> wald0: without looking at anything else, write a program that prints out its own code
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<benzrf> wald0: write an actual program
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<benzrf> wald0: in real ruby
<benzrf> wald0: it is harder than it sounds
<wald0> benzrf: maybe because is a useless feature lol
<benzrf> wald0: no cheating by opening your own file o_o
<wald0> and it was never implemented on any language
<centrx> barntzen, Find out what the "bad symbol" is?
<benzrf> i can write a quine in ruby, wald0
<benzrf> it is possible
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<wald0> benzrf: yeah but is useless, it does nothing
<wald0> we are talking about a copy-paste feature
<wald0> pry / irb already does something similar
<wald0> the thing is that is YOU who inserts that code
<wald0> what is interesting on it?
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<bilbo_swaggins> a program that reads its own source and makes a non-trivial composition (i.e. don't just arbitrarily map words to pitches) is more interesting
<benzrf> wald0: it is not a copy paste feature
<benzrf> wald0: im telling you
<benzrf> wald0: try writing it
<barntzen> centrx: I'm not familiar enough with Ruby to do that :/
<barntzen> and I've been googling to try to figure that out
<wald0> yeah, that is bilbo_swaggins, but then is not even needed "to read its source", it can simply dump data in a DB for later read it
<barntzen> tried removing the gems directory and cleaning assets then reinstalling all the gems
<bilbo_swaggins> or just make the file executable and ./foo foo
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<bilbo_swaggins> you know what? forget the "own"; make it just read sources
<centrx> barntzen, Can you paste what is at /var/www/gitlab/gitlab/vendor/bundle/ruby/1.9.1/gems/sprockets-rails-2.0.1/lib/sprockets/rails/task.rb:59:in `block (2 levels) in define'
<wald0> benzrf: write a code that writes a useful application itself :)
<wald0> thats nicer :)
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<barntzen> centrx: ugh, sorry, screwed up that link: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6729741/ is the proper one
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<barntzen> that older paste was from when I was being silly and trying to use Ruby 1.9.3 when it needed 2.0-p343 (which I'm now using)
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<centrx> barntzen, Okay, I looked it up on github :)
<centrx> barntzen, I was actually wrong, the error trace is in the opposite order, so it is getting the "bad symbol" in Marshall.load, which is called from https://github.com/sstephenson/sprockets/blob/master/lib/sprockets/cache/file_store.rb
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<centrx> barntzen, Which is pathname.exist? ? pathname.open('rb') { |f| Marshal.load(f) } : nil
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<centrx> barntzen, So it looks like it is running into a bad filename loading the cache
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<centrx> barntzen, Maybe you can clear the cache somehow?
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<barntzen> centrx: like with rake asset:clean?
<centrx> barntzen, You could try it, I have no idea about sprockets
<barntzen> or sprockets cache
<centrx> It looks like the sprockets cache yes
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<barntzen> looks like that might do it.../
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<barntzen> centrx: solved!
<centrx> Brilliant!
<barntzen> thanks so much! bundle exec rake tmp:cache:clear RAILS_ENV=production
<sickweezle> I wish I could pin down why working with Python frustrates me so much... :/
<barntzen> :) very much appreciated
<centrx> Victory!
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<centrx> sickweezle, Clunky syntax
<sickweezle> Trying to unbreak a coworker's Pyramid app. First I have to have a clue how it works, so I'm following, somewhat, it's intro stuff... Then I get to the bit where you ahve to /install/ the thing for development... wat? O.o
<sickweezle> ls
<sickweezle> doh, wrong keyboard.
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<benzrf> sickweezle: pyramid is python...
<benzrf> oh derp
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<sickweezle> Hm?
<benzrf> sickweezle: what is wrong with python ?
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<benzrf> i find it to be less broken than ruby in general
<benzrf> although i do find the non broken parts of ruby more pleasant
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<benzrf> ...most of them
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<sickweezle> benzrf: That's the thing. I'm not sure. I just find myself very frustrated when trying to get a number of things up and running.
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<benzrf> sickweezle: perhaps you do not understand the python ecosystem fully
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<benzrf> sickweezle: are you up2date on venvs and shit
<sickweezle> benzrf: That is almost certainly true.
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<platzhirsch> The Python ecosystem is two isles and between them is a gap down to hell The Isles are known as Python 2 and Python 3
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<sickweezle> hah
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<sickweezle> benzrf: I know extremely little about virtual environments. :/
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<benzrf> sickweezle: the python dev way is to make a venv
<benzrf> sickweezle: a venv is basically a fake mini python install that is kept local to a user dir
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<benzrf> sickweezle: you install packages normally, then when you need to share it you dump your package list to a file
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<platzhirsch> Can be similar to RVM
<benzrf> the standard format is known as requirements.txt
<benzrf> *filename for this
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<benzrf> equivalent to a Gemfile more or less
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<benzrf> only not python code
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<benzrf> since python sux at dsls
<sickweezle> I suspect a lot that helps frustrate me is that my coworker does know more of Python than me, but tends to go for fast rather than good, so I get a tangle to unravel.
<benzrf> o:
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<sickweezle> I have no idea how he tested this code, as it definitely doesn't work with some of the Pylon bits.
<benzrf> maybe he did not write tests
<sickweezle> Well, get it running to poke the web part and see if it did anything.
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<sickweezle> From example-land, after the install bit, use 'pserve <ini file>' to make it run. That throws a stack trace for his. O.o
<benzrf> show teh trace
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<sickweezle> Erm, moment.
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<workweezle> ls
<benzrf> workweezle: not bash
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<centrx> finger benzrf
<benzrf> centrx: u wut
<sickweezle> I'm doing pretty well for being split across two computers and on sudafed, mucinex, steroids, and adderal... @.@
<benzrf> hah
<benzrf> oh is sickweezle a status nick
<sickweezle> Sinus infections SUCK, btw...
<benzrf> i assumed it was your normal one
<sickweezle> It evolved from my previous job. My wife works at a day care center and brings home presents.
<sickweezle> <lag|sick|plague|work>weezle
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<benzrf> ah
<benzrf> plague is normal then ?
<benzrf> btw i googled the error and do you have setuptools installed
<sickweezle> I'm on week three of sinus infection and round two of antibiotics.
<benzrf> *pip
<benzrf> sickweezle: do you have pip on your machine?
<sickweezle> plague is more for when I'm nearly completely nonfunctional
<sickweezle> yes, and yes
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<benzrf> o_o
<sickweezle> Note that the Pyramid app I created a few moments ago loads fine.
<benzrf> how did you install pip?
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<sickweezle> Ah. Yar. I'm using the pyramid thing I created to compare to his. The one I created is happy.
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<sickweezle> benzrf: Okay, figured out at least some ... I'm not sure that what he has done will actually work at all the way Pylons is intended to. It appears to run because he wrote a class in a file with a if __name__ == '__main__': ... bit which bootstraps it.
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<sickweezle> benzrf: tyvm for the help; I suspect I'm going to have to drag bits and pieces over until I've got a working replacement, then nuke and replace what is in the repo.
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<platzhirsch> benzrf: so you are well into Python, too, no?
<benzrf> not anymore much
<benzrf> i used it for
<benzrf> hmm
<benzrf> im guessing almost a year
<benzrf> i know it v well
<benzrf> but i jumped ship for ruby a month or two ago
<benzrf> maybe more ? not sure
<benzrf> i already knew a little bit of ruby from wpgtr since quite a while longer ago\
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<benzrf> i went to python from java, so I was a REALLY big fan of ItSANgo
<benzrf> *it
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<benzrf> python -> ruby is a much less dramatic transition
<sickweezle> ItSANgo? O.o
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<platzhirsch> yeah, both are dynamic typed
<platzhirsch> tend to solve the same problems
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<benzrf> sickweezle: i tend to press tab then backspace habitually
<benzrf> one of many tics i have >_>
<benzrf> it often ends up completing short word to nicks when ircing
<sickweezle> OH! Now I understand. Heh.
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<benzrf> ive been dreaming of a new language
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<benzrf> with currying and spaced function application and first class functions
<benzrf> but also with prototype OO and blocks
<benzrf> and ruby-like syntax
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<benzrf> but optionally indented like python
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<benzrf> fu it would be awesome
<benzrf> B)
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<rec> i have a HAML question:
<rec> I have the code: %script{type:'text/javascript',src:'https://maps.googleapis.com/maps/api/js?key:MYKEY&sensor:false'} and it is yielding: https://maps.googleapis.com/maps/api/js?key:MYKEY&amp;sensor:false -- I need haml to not turn & into &amp;
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* sickweezle has definitely done enough work things today.
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<yasu> "&" should be "&amp;" (character reference) in HTML
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<Vedubo> Join #python!
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<kyle__> Is there an easyish way to get regex matching for CSV headers?
<popl> Vedubo: Has that ever worked?
<Vedubo> popl: I don't know. I cannot join #python
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<popl> Vedubo: You should register with nickserv.
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<kyle__> so you'd do something like CSV.open('blah.csv',:headers=>true).each{|something| puts something[/fuzzy/]}
<Vedubo> I certainly won't support the facist regime by registering with freenode
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<Vedubo> registering = acceptance, viva la resistance
<kyle__> It's almost too pathetic an attempt at trolling to even get kicked for.
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<Vedubo> kyle__: Thank you?
<slash_part> facist regime... aka, the zuckerberg administration
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<Vedubo> Because irc.freenode.net belongs to Facebook.. no, what? yes
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<slash_part> I was giving you a hard time over your misspelling.. all in good fun.
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<slash_part> Being punny.
<centrx> *clap*clap*
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<Vedubo> slash_part: oh, darn. You are right
<slash_part> it's a curse
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<kyle__> So, nobody here has had a desire to pull CSV headers by regex?
<Vedubo> kyle__: that sounds horrible
<Vedubo> CSV by regex?
<Vedubo> don't do that, seriously
<Vedubo> just parse the line
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<slash_part> why by regex?
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<kyle__> slash_part: For the headers. I get csv dumps periodically (out of my control), and the headers are frequently sbutly different.
<kyle__> err subtly
<kyle__> however you spell it.
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<Vedubo> why not read the first line and split the string
<slash_part> kyle__: are they always in the same order?
<kyle__> slash_part: They've been in the same order twice. Ever. I get 6-10 of these a year.
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<kyle__> Vedubo: I'm not parsing the CSV with regex, I just want to have fuzzy matching for header names.
<slash_part> so transform the first line by regex...
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<slash_part> to what you want it to be... then parse it normally
<kyle__> slash_part: The sane person would just edit the code, since it's only a few times a year.... but it bothers me.
<slash_part> that's what i'm saying to do
<slash_part> gsub with regexes... so gsub(/fuzzy/, "exact")... then puts something["exact"]
<RubyPanther> kyle__: If you're parsing it out to store it somewhere else, all you have to do is parse the headers and make a mapping hash where the wanted heading maps to the index of that field, then you can just read the data and put it in the correct place easily
<slash_part> RubyPanther: it varies too much for a mapping to be useful, from the sound of it...
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<kyle__> RubyPanther: I'm making a mapping now, just throwing it into a hash. But I was hoping to find something cleaner.
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* slash_part votes for his own suggested solution
<RubyPanther> It isn't going to be clean if your data is partially garbage. sanity is sufficient expectation there
<kyle__> slash_part: I've been doing mapping, and updating them periodically, but now it's gotten to the point where a simple map is cumbersome, and I've got to generate it via regex matches.
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<kyle__> RubyPanther: Point.
<slash_part> < slash_part> gsub with regexes... so gsub(/fuzzy/, "exact")... then puts something["exact"]
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<slash_part> all you need to do is transform the header before reading the csv
<kyle__> slash_part: Of the header row, and write it back out? HUmm.
<kyle__> I generally only use the CSV libs for reading... have to look at modifying them.
<RubyPanther> in my experience I can handle a lot of these legacy data import situations with regexes like /^\s*foo\s*bar\s*$/i
<slash_part> no no...
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<RubyPanther> especially if it is a rarely used tool where you're verifying success by hand each time
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<slash_part> i do most of my ETL stuff in shell..
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<kyle__> slash_part: ETL?
<slash_part> extract, transform, load
<slash_part> it's a thing :)
<kyle__> Ahh. It's late. I"m not parsing acronyms well.
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<RubyPanther> That's where the scripts in ~/bin/ come from, you paste it out of the shell after doing it by hand
<slash_part> pick it up, fix it how you want it, load the thing
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<slash_part> RubyPanther: huh? what's where those come from?
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<RubyPanther> Well, only if you're blessed with the virtue of Laziness
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<RubyPanther> But if you're doing it in the shell in an office environment, make sure to have a witty retort prepared for when somebody asks where the tests are for the data import
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<kyle__> RubyPanther: There's a special type of laziness, where doing something is too annoying to do repeatedly, so you spend 50x longer writing a solution. Just so you never do it again.
<slash_part> ah. we use an abominable tool... looks like this: https://communities.bmc.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/38-4018-31044/avp.png
<slash_part> writing code is fun, doing things not so much...
<RubyPanther> kyle__: Yes, well, it shouldn't really take that long, especially if you just do it by hand in irb and then extract it into a script
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<RubyPanther> Going long on something like that implies a recreational desire to make some sort of artsy, stylized what-the-what, instead of just scripting the actual task
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<kyle__> RubyPanther: It just seems like it's that long, after you've played with the code enough times.
* kyle__ has considered that he tends to work on this when other projects are slow or stuck....
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<kyle__> Night. TIme for bed.
<slash_part> buenas noches
<popl> buenos nachos
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<slash_part> and now i'm hungry.
<slash_part> thanks popl.
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<mib_mib> why is downloading a file from s3 only giving me ~ 100KB/s ? speedtest.net says i have roughly 35 down
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<reach> how long should it take to learn web development and start freelancing with programming experience (not in web dev)?
<reach> im starting to learn ruby, want to do RoR, and hopefully do some freelancing to gain experience
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<centrx> reach, Hard to say, do you have any past programming experience?
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<reach> i did a year of java, (beginner/intermediate), and have been programming in CAS for the last year
<reach> I can program, I just don't know the language
<centrx> Okay then you should pick it up in a couple days :)
<reach> what really?
<musl_> reach: How familiar are you with HTTP, related protocols, and the like?
<centrx> no jk
<reach> not at all familiar
<musl_> It might take a bit of reading and time then.
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<reach> would codeschool be a good place to sign up and learn?
<musl_> I've always thought that if one can read code, that the code is the best teacher.
<reach> yeah, i'd prefer to read a textbook and just go at exercises
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<musl_> If you're after rails, there are a great number of books on the subject.
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<musl_> I prefer those at pragprog.com
<reach> i have the one on ruby
<musl_> I like the writing style.
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<musl_> I'd urge you to learn ruby and systems programming first, if you have time. Wait, even if you dont.
<musl_> It'll teach you a lot about ruby and what it can do by itself and how it interacts with the system.
<pontiki> there is much to learn about developing web apps beyond learning ruby, and taking a rails tutorial
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<pontiki> but they are great places to start
<musl_> Yep.
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<RubyPanther> 6 months, 17 days
<pontiki> journey of 1000 miles and all that
<pontiki> 10_000 hours to get world class
<RubyPanther> Unless you're trying to understand Journey routing, then add a couple years of algorithm study
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<RubyPanther> Do you need to roflscale, or is webscale enough?
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<Vedubo> Join #Python
<sickweezle> who/why? O.o
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<Vedubo> musl: touche
<musl> :D
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<ru> i have a n00b question. i have been using 1.8.7 (gasp) for some time now, just because it is the default in RHEL, and was the default before Mavericks in OSX. I am curious why something like the following no longer works: https://gist.github.com/ryanuber/8367898
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<ru> i mean - no longer works in 2.x
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<pontiki> how exactly does that "work" in 1.8.7?
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<pontiki> does it print out "is a test" ?
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<ru> odd - you are right it doesnt work because of the word "test"
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<ru> understandably already defined. however, the same function with "blah blah" seems to work in 1.8.7 and not in 2.x
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<ru> just trying to understand what changed and why it affects this.
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<pontiki> i know the root object changed
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<pontiki> and it's class
<pontiki> but i don't really know much more than that
<ru> hmm ok, thanks pontiki. ill keep searching.
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<pontiki> ru: there's a #ruby-lang channel
<pontiki> i think they discuss implementation issues
<pontiki> i've never been, so i don't know if they would entertain your question
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<ru> pontiki: cool, thanks, ill give it a whirl. im sure its simple, i just done know a whole lot about the vm internals.
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<chovy> how do i install gem locally?
<ru> chovy: if you mean as a local user, i believe gem install has a --user-install option
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<popl> yes
<popl> should install to ~/.gem/ruby/…
<popl> just make sure the appropriate bin folder is in your path
<popl> e.g. I have ~/.gem/ruby/1.9.1/bin/
<chovy> ru: i don't have a gem command
<chovy> and i don't have root
<ru> chovy: what is your OS
<chovy> linux
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<ru> chovy: CentOS? Ubuntu?
<chovy> i don't know
<ru> gentoo?
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<popl> Why don't you know?
<chovy> its a shared host. i didn't install it.
<chovy> $ uname -a
<chovy> Linux n10 3.2.6mtv13 #1 SMP Tue May 14 15:32:13 PDT 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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<popl> chovy: do «cat /etc/*-release»
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<popl> or look at /proc/version
<popl> Sometimes that will say.
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<popl> anyways, chovy, just go to the rubygems site, download the tarball and install it locally
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<popl> then you can install all your gems locally
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<chovy> its debian
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<popl> How did you determine that?
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<chovy> proc/version
<chovy> Linux version 3.2.6mtv13 (ci_slave@cislave33-git.mtsvc.net) (gcc version 4.4.5 (Debian 4.4.5-8) ) #1
<popl> sweet!
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<popl> It's not really standard across Linux distributions so you have to do some investigation. I use slackware and there is /etc/slackware-version but there's nothing in /proc/version to mention, for example
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<chovy> k
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<popl> follow the instructions on that page
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<aniketpant> I am trying to write a simple application in Sinatra that fetches my last 20 twitter favorites and then prints them. Since the twitter gem allows only single requests, I am not sure how to use multiple requests in one go.
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<aniketpant> Can someone help me with it ^ ?
<chovy> what should i set GEM_HOME to?
<popl> What have you got so far?
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<aniketpant> I have been able to make individual requests.
<aniketpant> But the moment I try them in a loop, it takes close to 20 seconds and I get an exception
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<popl> chovy: wherever you want. just be consistent
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<popl> chovy: if you change $GEM_HOME to something local then you probably won't have to pass the --user-install switch to gem. if you don't want to worry about it and plan to always use --user-install, don't worry about setting $GEM_HOME because it will install to ~/.gem/ruby/… anyways (and complain if you try to use it without --user-install, which might be good to remind you that you're using a local version of gem).
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<chovy> so i installed it to $HOME/opt/gem
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<chovy> but it can't find gem command and i see a ./opt/gem/bin/gem1.8
<popl> did you put ./opt/gem/bin in $PATH?
<chovy> no
<popl> :P
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<popl> 23:21 < popl> just make sure the appropriate bin folder is in your path
<popl> :)
<chovy> stll no gem command
<popl> you might have to symlink gem to gem18 or
<popl> something
<chovy> k
<popl> or you could just call it with gem18
<popl> it's up to you
<chovy> $ gem install sass
<chovy> /home/108745/users/.home/opt/gem/bin/gem:8:in `require': no such file to load -- rubygems (LoadError) from /home/108745/users/.home/opt/gem/bin/gem:8
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<popl> which gem are you using? «which gem»
<chovy> $ which gem
<chovy> /home/108745/users/.home/opt/gem/bin/gem
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<popl> Hm. I don't know chovy. I just downloaded rubygems from the site, installed it locally, and installed sass locally just fine.
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<chovy> how did you install rubygems locally?
<chovy> i ran ruby ./setup.rb --prefix=$GEM_HOME
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<popl> ruby setup.rb --prefix=/home/popl/foo
<popl> then it created bin/… and lib/… inside /home/popl/foo and installed stuff into those locations
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<chovy> k
<chovy> that's what i did
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<chovy> oh well.
<chovy> pos host
<ryanuber> who is the isp out of curiosity?
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<agent_white> chovy: `which ruby` returns what?
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<agent_white> as well as `which gem`
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<popl> agent_white: he already did that.
<agent_white> popl: Ahhh :/
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<agent_white> popl: And added the one liner to his bashrc?
<chovy> agent_white /usr/bin/ruby
<chovy> agent_white: what one liner?
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<agent_white> i guess 3 liner ;P
<chovy> its ruby 1.8.7 if that means anything
<agent_white> if which ruby >/dev/null && which gem >/dev/null; then
<popl> the one that adds stuff to your $PATH
<agent_white> PATH="$(ruby -rubygems -e 'puts Gem.user_dir')/bin:$PATH"
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<agent_white> fi
<popl> but that only matters when you login again
<popl> and he said he already put it in his $PATH
<chovy> i added $HOME/opt/gem/bin to my path
<agent_white> Ahhhh
<popl> you should pay attention if you want to help, agent_white :P
<agent_white> popl: I have problems with attention ;)
<popl> Yes, apparently you do.
<popl> :P
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<popl> chovy: I don't know if it would work, but you could try to install rbenv or something then use that ruby to install rubygems locally.
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<popl> I use the system ruby myself so I have never done that.
<agent_white> eeep
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<agent_white> Shared hosting and using system ruby are big red flags
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<agent_white> User installed, if you need access outside symlink, in my opinion. Deal with RVM pitfalls as system installed ruby ones are worse.
<ryanuber> just get a linode or something :)
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<popl> Linode is expensive.
<agent_white> Aye, or digitalocean. Build that shit from scratch. Shared hosting environments are like using hostels to house your babies.
<ryanuber> agent_white: LOL
<chovy> i know. but email setup sucks balls.
<popl> Nah.
<ryanuber> so put that somewhere else
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<popl> chovy: It's just an opportunity for growth. ;P
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<agent_white> ^ Definitely a day-eater, but you learn the most from those fuckups that happen.
<ryanuber> i get his point. i ran my own mail servers for a while. its rewarding when you get it all set up perfect. but then 3 years later you are like "Well F..... why did I do this"
<chovy> popl: no its not
<chovy> its an opportunity for stupidity
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<agent_white> ryanuber: Haha, then I go 'I really need to use Puppet this time.' ;P
<popl> chovy: that's usually part of growth, innit?
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<chovy> i'm not hosting email server.
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<Gektar> Privet vsem
<popl> Ok, what were you planning on hosting?
<popl> some webthing?
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<sickweezle> email server hosting best left for when you have a mentor of some form
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<pontiki> agent_white: i'mma steal that line about hostels
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<chovy> popl: just a web site.
<chovy> i'm using grunt to deploy it and the damn server doesn't have gem installed, so I can't use sass.
<agent_white> pontiki: ;D
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<sickweezle> Hm. DigitalOcean has a rather nice logo.
<agent_white> Definitely a sign I need to make my way to bed haha
* sickweezle staggers off towards bed before the meds for his sinus infection make him high.
<ryanuber> nice.
<ryanuber> :)
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<sickweezle> sudafed, steroids, etc. etc. etc.
<sickweezle> Anyways, g'night folks, and thank you for all the help in the past and in the future.
<agent_white> Ouch D: Seems to be sick season, I'm sinking in the same ship this week it feels like.
<agent_white> Night man, I'm off as well. G'night guys!
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<chovy> me too
<chovy> thanks for trying to help.
<chovy> support says they don't support gem.
<chovy> nice to have ruby w/o gem :p
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<ryanuber> chovy: LOL, seriously who is the host?
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<ryanuber> chovy: i worked at a terrible host for a while. brings back memories.
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<maletor> what does * '&' do for enumerable?
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<Hanmac1> maletor: Array & String is like Array.join(String)
<Hanmac1> [1,2,3] * "&" #=> "1&2&3"
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<popl> >> [1..10] * '&'
<popl> eval-in: you suck
<apeiros> ["hi"]*10*" & "
<Hanmac> i mean like "Array * String "
<popl> interesting shorthand
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<popl> Hanmac: where is operator* overloaded?
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<Hanmac> popl:
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<Hanmac> [4,5,6] * 2 #=> [4,5,6,4,5,6]
<Hanmac> [4,5,6] * 2.5 #=> [4,5,6,4,5,6] #no difference from the above
<Hanmac> [4,5,6] * "2" #=> "42526"
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<popl> yeah, I believe you. I asked where the operator was overloaded. :)
<popl> probably in String right?
<apeiros> no
<apeiros> it's a method
<popl> OH
<apeiros> and methods are always defined on the receiver
<apeiros> so it's Array#*
<apeiros> and it branches on the argument type
<popl> I considered it branching on the type
<popl> thanks
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<popl> Hanmac: thanks
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<finnnnnnnnnnn> anyone able to help with this? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21060789/unable-to-find-gems-ruby
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<Hanmac> finnnnnnnnnnn: ruby1.9.3-p362 + "/Library/Ruby/Gems/1.8/" + "/Library/Ruby/Site/2.0.0" = "version chaos" it seems it picks the wrong ruby command and then falls into the wrong directories ... => i think you did something wrong when installing rbenv ... (i recommend rvm on Mac ... but i would not recommend Mac if possible )
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<finnnnnnnnnnn> Hanmac: I used rvm before but the team I'm working with use rbenv so I have to switch.
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<finnnnnnnnnnn> Hanmac: so I've removed dvm completely this morning
<finnnnnnnnnnn> *rvm
<Hanmac> i think that rbenv is not correctly installed into the bash rc files ... (i didnt do that for long time ago)
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<finnnnnnnnnnn> Hanmac: thanks will have a google
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<aniketpant> I have a few questions about async requests. Can anyone help me out?
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<aniketpant> Can anyone here help me out with a few queries on async requests?
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<Hanmac> aniketpant: just ask
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<MindfulMonk> is a hash of hashes ever a good idea?
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<apeiros> sure, why not?
<apeiros> but if you can, use proper classes.
<MindfulMonk> feels kinda wrong
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<shevy> MindfulMonk the problem is, when your data structures become more and more complicated, accessing them can become more and more convoluted and inelegant
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<jle`> hashes of hashes is just typical json
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<jle`> the main problem is that they lack any sort of semantic structure that the language can help you with
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<apeiros> or domain specific methods/features/utilities
<apeiros> hence "use proper classes if you can"
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<apeiros> it's also harder to grok such a structure.
<wald0> which is a good book that includes a lot of knowledge in few reading? i mean, i hate those "bla bla" books which needs lots of pages for explain few things
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<MindfulMonk> wald0, practice
<MindfulMonk> and docs
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<shevy> wald0 we need a new tutorial ;)
<Hanmac1> shevy: should i write it? ;D
<shevy> no
<shevy> we need someone who knows the english language very well
<Hanmac1> ha now you where scared ;D
<shevy> I do tons of mistakes myself :)
<shevy> we should hire the monty python crew
<shevy> or like, ten people do ten chapters of specific length and style
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<wald0> im looking right now the "rubymonk" site but i have a little hard to understand it... well, the examples are not very "examples", they are more like plain code than "a good example that lights you the use of foo"
<shevy> I dont know the rubymonk site myself
<wald0> shevy: this is not a bad idea, a croudfunding to make a really-good book with excelent examples :)
<shevy> an expanded, updated variant of the chris pine tutorial would be nice and perhaps mixing in ideas of the creative part of the poignant guide (but it always seemed more like a cartoon to me than a tutorial)
<shevy> I dont even think you need crowdfunding, just look at stackoverflow, it works!
<wald0> i checked that poignant stuff and make me totally lost
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* Hanmac1 cant remember anymore how he learned ruby ... he didnt use any tutorial, only studing the source of RMXP scripts
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<wald0> just like a book of "computers for dummies" that i have see in a shop years ago, i opened it and saw that compared the screen with a oven and a keyboard with a bread, I said "big WTF dumbasses! how you want that ppl understands how a computers works on this way?!"
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<bgy> Hi
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<shevy> wald0 yeah the poignant guide also confused me back then
<shevy> but other people liked it
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<wald0> shevy: are these ones good programmers? :)
* wald0 hides
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<wald0> shevy: this is my own book/tutorial :) http://paste.debian.net/75570/
<shevy> wald0 I think it is to a large degree the visual factor
<shevy> people like visual beauty
<shevy> even xckd could be counted as visually beautiful :P
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<wald0> use a good designed book, good wireframing and beautiful syntax coloring, and you have a good design lol
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<Hanmac1> shevy: xckd is ART! ;D
<shevy> wald0 but that may be hard to find
<shevy> wald0, look at http://blog.parpg.net/, the second entry has a list of images
<Hanmac1> "is that time again." - "To make fun about php?" "to find bugs in the ruby source?" - "No, to restart the firefox browser" (one free imaginary cookie for everyone who understand the reference of the joke)
<shevy> different people contributed to it. it was DAMN hard to find artists contributing to a game, especially good artists
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<shevy> and 3D modellers
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<shevy> wald0, is http://paste.debian.net/75570/ the "I collect all .rb things into one file"?
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<wald0> shevy: if i understood you correctly, yes... this is a tutorial more like "read the code and the comments, see how it is strctured, real examples and real code, it includes everything" :)
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<wald0> a little similar as a reference but a reference is meant to include "all", and this is meant to include the needed things to understand/use ruby
<wald0> anybody want to improve it ? :)
<shevy> I see
<shevy> wald0 not really, I have not enough time :D
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<shevy> wald0 I tell you how I do that. I have a main directory where I keep like 90% of my ruby files
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<shevy> in this main directory one directory is called test/ and in that I put all .rb files that showcase or demo something
<shevy> like one file demos how __END__ works or can be used in ruby
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<wald0> what i need to do someday also is to write a text file with a list of "examples of code" that i used in random codes, like "an example of gettext in foo app, an example of getopts/args in bar, etc"
<shevy> then I have a main tutorial, a big page, that links in basically information about all that the stdlib has (one file that handles arrays, another handles string manipulation in ruby etc...), and then these files read in some example code from that test/ directory
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<wald0> shevy: sounds good :) can you put it somewhere? (github?)
<shevy> like: show_example :define_dynamic_methods # which shows in colours the define_dynamics_methods.rb file in test/ directory
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<shevy> wald0 hmm let me think
<MrPopinjay> Hello all. I'm on Debian Linux here. I installed ruby via apt, but now gem wants to install gems to a system directory, rather than inside my home directory. Should I not be installing and using ruby in this way?
<shevy> wald0 the example .rb files sure
<shevy> the tutorial has a lot of explanations in german though :(
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<wald0> MrPopinjay: its suggested to stick at debian packages for stability, but you can install them in your home too (not via apt then)
<shevy> MrPopinjay debian maintainers don't like competition like gem much at all
<wald0> MrPopinjay: gem install --user-install somegem
<MrPopinjay> wald0: Marvelous, thank you
<wald0> shevy: gems is like a replacement of their own package-manager lol
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<MrPopinjay> THis channel is great. I've never consistently got such quick, helpful, and friendly advice before :)
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<wald0> there's gem2ruby package too, which can build a debian package of a gem that is not avialable on repos (make your own debian ruby gem package), MrPopinjay shevy
<shevy> MrPopinjay well just keep in mind that debian changes things to better "fit" the debian way
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<shevy> my output of "gem env" will probably be different of your output of "gem env" MrPopinjay
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<shevy> different *to
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<MrPopinjay> Oh Debian. I do love it, but the packages are all funny
<itadder> hi
<apeiros> MrPopinjay: be prepared for fun. debians ruby packages are historically horrible
<shevy> MrPopinjay does require 'mkmf' work for you if you are in irb ?
<itadder> I trying to figure out
<itadder> would it be possible to write powershell like cmdlet library for ruby
<apeiros> if you're lucky, they're only 3 years behind too
<wald0> apeiros: why is that? seems like there was some difficult to port gems to debian packages? dependency difficulties maybe?
<MrPopinjay> shevy: Yes.
<shevy> itadder do you mean for ruby scripts? or for microsoft powershell? if it is for ruby then sure
<apeiros> wald0: I have no idea
<shevy> MrPopinjay ok
<itadder> for ruby
<shevy> an object oriented ruby shell :)
<itadder> like add powershell like cmdlet syntax on unix platform like OS Ten, Linux, and bsd
<itadder> yea
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> but it's quite a lot of work
<itadder> get-host
<shevy> I think all projects that tried it eventually stopped
<wald0> OO shell ?
<itadder> who do I contact to help work on this project
* wald0 wonders how a OO shell should look like
<shevy> itadder perhaps someone here
<itadder> rubyonpower
<shevy> what would also help is if you wrote up an explanation that others could read about the goals of the project and so forth
<itadder> the goal is to port powershell code to unix, for admins who are not devops but have written simple powershell scripts to do X like grab info from a .csv file or .xml
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<shevy> interesting
<shevy> you will have to parse that powershell code and translate it into ruby code, right?
<itadder> yea
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<itadder> but a winodws admin can do simple things also like get-host and get ruby on power version
<itadder> do some simple task also
<wald0> # Singleton's: in the same way you can define methods for existing objects, they are called singletons
<wald0> is this correct? ^
<apeiros> no
<itadder> and maybe transtation them to ruby
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<emocakes> so you just want to emulate powershell itadder
<emocakes> more or less
<apeiros> wald0: it is correct that you can define methods for existing objects. they're not called singletons. the place where methods for a single object are stored is called singleton_class.
<emocakes> minus the cmdlets
<itadder> emocakes: I guess
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<shevy> emocakes! hi!!!
<wald0> ah
<itadder> get powershell to admin a unix or none MS box using syntax they are used to
<apeiros> wald0: also note that you can define methods for existing objects by adding methods to their class or any of its ancestors. but those methods are available to all other instances of that class too.
<shevy> itadder I guess you should first write a translater/parser for powershell scripts
<itadder> I would call it ruby on power
<shevy> and make it a gem and upload it
<emocakes> hey shevy <3
<wald0> obj.instance_eval do def new_method ; puts 'im a new method' ; end ; end
<wald0> i used that for this exaplanation, apeiros ^
<apeiros> wald0: odd way to define a method on a single object
<apeiros> wald0: just `def obj.new_method; … end`
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<itadder> shevy: now I have no idea how to do this, becuase I am no programer :(
<apeiros> wald0: remember that when you see `def self.new_method; … end` in class bodies (same thing - self is an object)
<itadder> just an idea I was thinking of yesterday
<wald0> apeiros: spank rubymonk's site :þ
<itadder> becuase I know how to do simple things in powershell but not in ruby or python
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<apeiros> wald0: feel free to tell the author
<shevy> itadder hmm
<shevy> itadder do you have a SMALL example of a powershell script?
<itadder> yea
<itadder> let me post it
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<wald0> mmh, so now i have this:
<shevy> the idea for powershell is cool. I also once wanted to combine it with avisynth scripts
<wald0> # In the same way you can define methods for existing objects, they are called singleton_class
<wald0> obj.instance_eval do def new_method ; puts 'born new method in an alive object' ; end ; end
<wald0> # better way to define a method for an existing object, if you dont want to use dynamic code execution of eval
<shevy> but it's all so much work...
<wald0> obj.new_method do def new_method ; puts 'born new method in an alive object' ; end ; end
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<apeiros> wald0: sounds like the methods were called "singleton_class", which is not true. the singleton_class is the class where those methods are stored.
<shevy> hmm
<apeiros> methods themselves don't care what their "audience" is
<apeiros> and I'm not aware of a name for that either
<apeiros> (there is the term "class methods" for the special case of methods defined for a single Class instance)
<itadder> forgive me but I am no programmer shevy
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<itadder> and I suffer from being hyperactive about things
<shevy> itadder I don't value your skills, it is of no interest to me. I look at what can be done. One problem is that ruby does not too easily allow you to use '-' in method definitions
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<itadder> oh
<shevy> self.class.class_eval { define_method('Foo-Bar') { puts 'hi' } }
<wald0> mmh, so what is "a singleton" then ? i have read that yesterday and just readed something to include it in my tutorial
<wald0> apeiros:
<shevy> self.class.send :'Foo-Bar'
<shevy> itadder, you can define a method like that, and also invoke it in ruby
<shevy> but
<shevy> the syntax kinda sucks
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<apeiros> wald0: a singleton is a term from the singleton pattern. it's a single instance of a class.
<itadder> hmm
<MrZYX> wald0: a singleton in general is something that can only exist once. There's for example the singleton pattern that prevents that there's more than one instance of a class
<wald0> http://youtu.be/ibPziLRGvkg about a powerful SHELL, check that shevy itadder
<apeiros> wald0: google "singleton pattern". told you (yesterday I think) not to confuse the two.
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<wald0> this terminal can preview images, pdf's, videos... has a terminal-switcher like compiz, etc
<apeiros> that said, singleton patter IMO is an anti pattern
<shevy> wald0 cool how is that done?
<wald0> shevy: heh
<shevy> and why do you know about this wald0
<wald0> shevy: EFL (enlightenment) libs which i want to use with ruby :)
<shevy> :(
<shevy> I failed to compile the last part, the enlightenment, due to libpng mismatches
<wald0> why :( ? we have the bindings already made for ruby!
<wald0> mmh, not need enlightenment, just libefl & libelementary
<itadder> wow that brett cool
<wald0> oh, you can set a video for the background of terminal too, transparent
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<wald0> check 8:40 minute
<shevy> wald0 ah? I could use the bindings without enlightenment? I managed to compile everything else
<wald0> shevy: yeah, first compile libefl, if you have it, then compile libelementary and you wouldn't need anything else :)
<shevy> ok
<wald0> then just install that gem and will directly work
<shevy> can you tell me the name of the gem again?
<wald0> ffi-efl iirc
<shevy> Hanmac1, see! that's how to do it
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<itadder> would this work on mac
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<wald0> shevy: not sure if they are updated automatically too but the source of the commits are in: http://git.enlightenment.org/bindings/ruby/ffi-efl.git/
<wald0> itadder: i think so
<wald0> itadder: at least it works on windows
<wald0> since you can compile libefl on it yes
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<shevy> question: if I have a method, that accepts one argument, how can I find out if it is tainted input (coming from ARGV) or not?
<wald0> lol see minute 12:50: http://youtu.be/ibPziLRGvkg
<wald0> shevy: can you believe that this is done in C without OO ? :) lol
<shevy> itadder yeah there are a TONS of possibilities
<itadder> so would this require regex to be done
<shevy> itadder a problem for me is that I only use linux these days :(
<itadder> I would like to make this open
<itadder> yea
<itadder> I want this so windows admin like me can do powershell in linux or mac
<shevy> though my scripts will work on windows too, but I can rarely test them
<itadder> since both have ruby preinstalled
<shevy> edje_cc: Critical. Unable to load image "emo-unhappy.png" used by file "../../data/themes/default.edj": F
<shevy> emo! a pictures of emo!
<itadder> okay I need to go to the GYM
<itadder> so badly
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<wald0> shevy: or in other words, can you believe that what is done in minute 12:50 doesn't needs OO code ? :)
<shevy> dunno
<shevy> depends on the OO definition really
<itadder> my end goal is port ruby on power to mac os ten
<wald0> "no OO at all"
<shevy> itadder 2014 is still a young year :D
<shevy> wald0 no I mean, what exactly defines OO
<wald0> shevy: this error trying to compile libefl? where did you download libefl from ?
<shevy> in C you have data structures like struct too. that may already qualify as part of OOP :D
<itadder> a lot of people in my office are using macs now at home, and we get to troubleshoot them but it would be cool if we could use some of the powershell syntax to troubleshoot
<itadder> and at the same time I would learn ruby
<shevy> wald0 all from the official sources at http://download.enlightenment.org/releases/
<wald0> shevy: well, that part in 12:50 shows indpeendent terminal sessions running lots of features by their own, its easy to imagine that coded with OO but hard to think "how you would write it without OO"
<wald0> ok, let me check
<shevy> wald0 it is related to libpng somehow and I have 3 versions locally
<shevy> I think the script is too dumb to figure out what libpng version to use consistently
<wald0> shevy: btw have you tried to use the packages of arch from that guy? he's an active maintainer
<shevy> I dont use any packages
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<shevy> I can compile all of gnome from source!
<wald0> mmmh, this directory seems wrong, use this one instead, shevy: http://download.enlightenment.org/rel/libs/efl/
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<wald0> more exactly, efl-1.8.4
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<shevy> ok
<wald0> shevy: first compile efl, when you have it, libelementary should compile fine
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<shevy> wald0 I see
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<shevy> hmm guys
<shevy> require 'digest/md5reverse'
<shevy> this does not work?
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<wald0> shevy: you should not have any png problems imho with this one :), show me the "summarized options" result of autogen/configure checks (the one colored that lists the features to include)
<shevy> wald0 wald0
<shevy> lol
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<wald0> shevy: mmh, efl is already compiled (before elmentary) ?
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<shevy> I need to buy some food soon here before shops close
<shevy> not yet
<wald0> shevy: efl needs to be compiled before elementary, because elementary depends on efl entirely :)
<shevy> I'll be back in half a hour or so
<Fuzai> Does anyone know of a ORM / ODM for Redis and Ruby?
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<wald0> apeiros: > Singleton is a design pattern that restricts instantiation of a class to only one instance that is globally available.
<wald0> i see, but, "why restrict" ? just use it one time lol
* wald0 dont understand the sense to "restrict", if you dont need more than one, dont create more than one
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<wald0> anybody knows which Editor (or more exactly which syntax-color-theme) is used here? http://dalibornasevic.com/posts/9-ruby-singleton-pattern-again
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<waxjar> wald0: in some situation you need to be sure that there is only one instance
<waxjar> *situations
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<wald0> waxjar: yeah but... this is simple: "use foo, if foo doesn't exist, create it and return the address, end"
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<waxjar> that's how you could implement the singleton pattern :)
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<apeiros> indeed, that's the common implementation. see `ri Singleton`
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<apeiros> instead of MyClass.new, you call MyClass.instance there, which does almost exactly what you described.
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<waxjar> or overwrite .new >:)
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<apeiros> I prefer Singleton's way of using a distinct method
<wald0> so there's no magic science behind "singleton" then
<apeiros> makes it very apparent what's going on.
<apeiros> wald0: no pattern is "magic"
<wald0> i was searching for "what is singleton" since yesterday on my head's TODO lol
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<apeiros> it's just techniques to solve a specific set of problems.
<wald0> apeiros: well, i wanted to add that in my tutorial code, but sounds like it is a "so basic thing" that is not even worth to add :)
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<waxjar> there is a Singleton mixin in the stdlib
<wald0> apeiros: for me is "common sense" to not create things already created and having duplication... but well, maybe it requires some "spanks and bug founds" in your code before you realize how essential is
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<wald0> just like writting in /tmp without include the username in the file/dir
<apeiros> waxjar: um, yes, the one I referenced for the last 10 min…
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* waxjar never reads his scrollback :D
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<wald0> whats your* prefered colorscheme for ruby ?
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<ayaz> wald0: I use Solarized Dark everywhere.
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<waxjar> i use tomorrow night
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<shevy> i use the pink crossdresser theme
<wald0> by some reason im not a big fan of solarized, lots of ppl found it good but i dont found it optimal for reading
<wald0> what you think about this one? https://github.com/Elive/vim-colorscheme-elive
<wald0> it lacks a ruby example :)
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<havenn> i've been using Tomorrow Night (bright) lately
<Fuzai> I just switched to Molokai and i really like it
<havenn> Fuzai: Molokai does look nice.
<Fuzai> I turned the default text to dark amber / orance
<Fuzai> orange
<Fuzai> and switched to roxterm
<havenn> Monokai*
<Fuzai> so far i've been alot happier
<Fuzai> I know it as Molokai
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<havenn> Fuzai: heh, interesting
<Fuzai> Oh I see
<Fuzai> Molokai is a Vim port of the monokai theme for TextMate originally created by Wimer Hazenberg.
<havenn> aha
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<wald0> tomorrow night looks good, but im not sure about the original sources... from where i should install it ?
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<Fuzai> wow i really like tomorrow night
<Fuzai> that looks perfect
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<ixti> I was fan of monokai for a long time, but recently switched to https://github.com/nanotech/jellybeans.vim
<ixti> pretty nice theme.
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<wald0> just using "space cadet" (for vim) now, it looks really good, let me compare (similar to) tomorrow night..
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<wald0> mmh, i found it more pleasant than tomorrow-night (if you like it, give this one a try)
<wald0> more readable too
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<shevy> that's what ruby hackers do
<shevy> eternal stylistic analysis and no more code!
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<wald0> shevy: do you want to return to assembly ? :)
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<shevy> no
<wald0> I really like the concept used on this screenshot, for colorscheme readability http://i.imgur.com/v7vyX.png
<shevy> I want to go to the evolution after ruby :)
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<wald0> shevy: then #define: what ruby lacks? :)
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<shevy> wald0 immortal, dynamic objects
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<wald0> inmortal = ram saturated?
<shevy> wald0 a squeak-like interface and component-wise assembly of pipes including simple drag and drop
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<shevy> no, immortal meaning that you could pick up an object from 1976, adjust it, and it would continue to run with these adjustments transparently
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<wald0> shevy: ah, then you want a seriously good IDE :), yeah i was thinking long time ago on that too... without need to type or use mouse (mouse pick&select & dragndrop from a touchscreen)
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<shevy> not only an IDE, I mean really more like a whole system, a RubyOS!
<wald0> shevy: then you need a "ruby migration code" :)
<wald0> shevy: did you know about Corcen from the venus project?
<shevy> I guess for a very long while ruby will continue to be a glue language
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<shevy> I never heard any of these words before
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<wald0> pag 85 where starts chap.11
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<wald0> next chapter is a very enjoyable read too, if you like it
<LadyRainicorn> Isn't the Venus project that weird utopian thing?
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: except that is not weird and that is not utopian, yes :)
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<wald0> its about a redesign of the society, without governments and a monetary-based economy (which is the root of all the world's problems)
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<wald0> its just a proposed design of society, based on scientific studies, nothing utopian or lacking of a reliable background
<LadyRainicorn> How do you prevent freeloaders?
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<shevy> wald0 what do you do when someone wants to establish a dictatorship?
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: all those questions are already answered in their design, but they found very hard to "explain" about an entire society (which changes all your paradim of "reality") in small video-presentations, think about you need to explain everything, but for answer your question i could tell you that...
* wald0 not sure if irssi included all the text
<LadyRainicorn> "that..." was the last word.
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: answering your question I will tell you that those are just a product of the capitalist system, let's say "nobody like's to work", when ppl do a job they do it for money, not because they enjoy doing it, let's see free software, ppl do it because WANTs to do it, so there's no freeloaders, also..
<LadyRainicorn> How do you explain the fact that many people stop producing economic output if they have money?
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: by other side "boredom" is a very annoying feeling, everybody enjoy doing things, since you dont force them to do it they will found their "enjoyable topics", ppl likes to coding or to paint, etc
<LadyRainicorn> Some, sure. But how would you find people to do unenjoyable jobs?
<LadyRainicorn> I imagine software and music would actually do ok if money were abolished.
<LadyRainicorn> I find it less clear how I would, say, go get a massage.
<waxjar> you build machines to do those jobs \o/
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<shevy> waxjar hehe
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: we started in the past using animals for produce foods and goods, then we started to use humans (slavery), money is just a way to slave people with beautiful words but the result is the same, actually we are moving into use machines for produce foods and goods, machines dont has emotions so they will not complain about their slavery, when we automatize all our "hard jobs" we dont need to be slave of ourselves anymore
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<wald0> uh, i think that this last sentence was cut? my last sentence was "anymore"
<wald0> word*
<shevy> what if we have machines with emotions
<waxjar> people will start machine right groups
<LadyRainicorn> How do you deal with jobs that can't be automated?
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: you dont need to "find", ppl will simply do things, but to be more specificially see how you -actually- do these things in a similar way: using internet, you have chatrooms like this one, forums, github, and service to connect things
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<waxjar> take turns or improve technology so it can be automated, i guess
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<LadyRainicorn> Let's go back to massage.
<shevy> what about areas without much high tech
<shevy> LadyRainicorn in utopia, massages will be forbidden
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<wald0> shevy: cmon' you are programmer :) machines will NEVER have emotions, its simply impossible (electronically), but, if there was possible, you will NOT give them emotions since that doesn't give you anything good, you only need automation of work
<shevy> wald0 I am not a programmer! I just like the creative parts of programming. I am really more like a molecular biologist
<LadyRainicorn> Well, I think a therapist probably would need emotions.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: everything can be automated, -everything-, just see now how smart is ruby to do things in a smart way (like polyformism), future will develp better things of course, but by other side, you can enjoy doing a job that is not automated since you removed the 99% of the hard or monotone part
<LadyRainicorn> wald0: So if I can't find someone willing to give me a massage for no benefit to them, I can't have one?
<wald0> shevy: in utopia, massages are free from volonteers lol
<wald0> or a machine can massage too, we have sofa's that do that lol
<LadyRainicorn> They kind of suck.
<LadyRainicorn> How about prostitution?
<shevy> LadyRainicorn well perhaps it is of benefit to that person
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<waxjar> you drag someone to your basement and make them LadyRainicorn :P
<shevy> hahaha :D
<LadyRainicorn> Isn't that what money is for, shevy?
* wald0 feels saturated lol
<shevy> LadyRainicorn dunno, you could do something you like and get paid or you do something you don't like and get paid, or you may do something for free because you like it anyway
<shevy> I like ruby!
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<LadyRainicorn> This sounds an awful lot like capitalism.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: prostitution is something NOT good, you are forcing humans to do something that they dont really want to, in exchange of a good, by other side humans sometimes needs sex, thats true, but at the same time you can find ppl that wants to do sex with you, just like you want to
<wald0> wait, i think that there's an answer in their FAQ for that
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: try "sex" or search for the 105 one
<LadyRainicorn> So you would claim that any actigity someone wouldn't perform for free is morally wrong?
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<shevy> some like sex and money
<LadyRainicorn> And some just like money.
<shevy> :D
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<LadyRainicorn> How would I go ab
<LadyRainicorn> out, say, constructing a building?
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: not sure to understand your question (bad english here), but just think about if you need to pay for obtain something, is because the person doesn't want to do that, but think about the same thing without paying, there's a lot of volonteers, by other side, you rely a lot in humans, almost all of our needs can be done by machines (except sex, well, in fcat you can lol)
<LadyRainicorn> One of these factories neccesary for all this automation.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: automated construction of buildings by machines, to make a house takes 14 minutes :)
<LadyRainicorn> There would be volunteers for some activities, but not others.
<waxjar> 3D printers!
<shevy> LadyRainicorn right except until the moment where you have a factory building new factories
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<waxjar> oh good, java IS the future!
<waxjar> *god
<shevy> nice typo waxjar :)
<waxjar> haha
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: read the answer 105 regarding sex: http://www.thevenusproject.com/extras/faq
<shevy> one letter meaning all the difference!
<shevy> LadyRainicorn, who would have thought, they have ALL questions covered in their FAQ ;)
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<wald0> shevy: checking the old convo, if someone tell you that want to be a dictatorship: you can simply laugh on him :)
<wald0> shevy: seriously talking, theres no reason/need to be a dictator, and nobody would allow that, and in any case there will be "no ways" for do that
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<wald0> for example
<wald0> you can be dictator actually with money, you pay ppl for be a soldier, then you have power... without monetary-based economy you cannot pay ppl to be a soldier
<wald0> "it will simply not work"
<LadyRainicorn> So in the future we'll all be naked.
<LadyRainicorn> People volunteer to be soldiers generally for non-monetary reasons.
<LadyRainicorn> It is, ironically, one of the jobs that would still be performed in utopia.
<waxjar> you could simply promise them the loot, like in the olden days
<wald0> wars exist because some country wants something that another country has, this is based on scarcity ("i dont have foo, i want it"), since everybody can have any need thing, there's no need to create a war, entirely stupid and useless action
<LadyRainicorn> Many wars are driven by a desire to exterminate or punish the other side.
<LadyRainicorn> Also, human capital would still be scarce in your vision.
<shevy> wald0 right but what if there are people with guns, then you may find it hard to laugh at them
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: in a healthy-mental society, there's no "enjoy" in killing people, there's in our actual world because your television shows you "how nice it is" and because you have lots of games showing "how fun is to kill ppl", our society is based on creating stupidity
<shevy> wald0 people do all sorts of stupid things even without being paid
<shevy> wald0 but I agree that the monetary reason is the biggest problem
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: when your television will stop to show you "honey boo boo" and shows you useful documentaries, society will start to be smart, if society is smart, they will not find enjoyable to kill ppl, but disgusting... just like (most) of us here i assume :)
<LadyRainicorn> That's false. Wars have been documented in all cultures since preagricultural times.
<LadyRainicorn> Indeed, chimpanzees engage in warfare.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: nah, check free software and how still growing, this is a simple small proof of non-monetary-incentivated works
<LadyRainicorn> That's unrelated to war
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<LadyRainicorn> I am postulating we live in a world with no material scarcity.
<LadyRainicorn> So you can produce anything with zero cost.
<wald0> just because 2 things: 1) is not "hard" or monotone to do the work (but enjoyable), and 2) because the "digital" level has no cost, so you can create software "for free" (no phisical/material needs, cp doesn't adds extra cost in your electricity)
<LadyRainicorn> War would still occur
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<wald0> shevy: no reason that an evoluted and healthy-mental society will have guns, at all
<LadyRainicorn> Human scarcity, for example competition over reproductive partners, would still exist.
<LadyRainicorn> Guns can be produced at home with no cost.
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<LadyRainicorn> Anyone who wants one has one.
<LadyRainicorn> Or twenty.
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<wald0> shevy: the book link that i give you is about a novel showing how will be a future that works on this way, if you read it you can see "why ppl would want to do that", i really enjoyed reading it (it starts only from the 50% of the book, the first is idk-what)
<LadyRainicorn> There is no material scarcity, remember?
<LadyRainicorn> You cannot have such a society with any sort of gun control.
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<LadyRainicorn> Or indeed arms control if any kind.
<shevy> wald0 so that book writes about an utopian society of normal people
<shevy> but I tell you, people are nuts!
<LadyRainicorn> I can also synthesize an RPG.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: sure we have scarcity, everywhere
<pontiki> humm
<LadyRainicorn> Your entire premise is no scarcity.
<shevy> look at LadyRainicorn, I mean, seriously pink ponicorns on a rainbow how nuts is that!
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: just answer yourself: can you have a car "just right now" ? or a house? or a boat? no, you can't, you need -money-, you have scarcity about any need that you cannot "simply" pay
<wald0> in such culture you dont need money, and you can have anything that you want
<LadyRainicorn> Yes, I'm talkng about utopia.
<wald0> "i need a house", so: cp house-model.rb myhouse.rb :)
<LadyRainicorn> I want an RPG.
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<shevy> wald0 but you still need energy and material for such a house, not just the information
<LadyRainicorn> In fact, I want fluorine gas.
<shevy> and what if I want a really BIG HOUSE
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: utopia doesn't exist, humans always needs to "improve something", otherwise they will not found a reason for living, and they will die, there's ALWAYS a way to improve something
<LadyRainicorn> So now I have fluorine gas.
<LadyRainicorn> Now I dislike Ted
<waxjar> what if I want *your* house?
<LadyRainicorn> He stole my girlfriend.
<shevy> waxjar then I need guns to kill you!!!
<pontiki> politics in a tech channel?
<shevy> LadyRainicorn I also hate Ted, his nose is too big
<waxjar> then i better get some guns too shevy :p
<shevy> :(
<wald0> waxjar: copy it, just like you do in ruby with data lol
<LadyRainicorn> But waxjar likes Ted.
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<wald0> no need to "stole" if you can duplicate
<shevy> both must die then
<LadyRainicorn> So you and I better go kill Ted and waxjar
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<LadyRainicorn> Here have some fluorine gas waxjar
<shevy> but you know what? I think wald0 is crazy, let's kill him first
<LadyRainicorn> ^ war in Utopia
<waxjar> but your house has sentimental value to me, a copy won't
<shevy> ^ and Utopia will become Dystopia
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: in a healthy-mental society, all that you say has non-sense lol, you are worrying about things that cannot exist by its "naturity of work"
<waxjar> i had my first piece of candy in your house
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: but of course you need to understand the -why- this will never exist, but for that you would need to read their books to understand the "why's"
<LadyRainicorn> Why would competition over reproductive partners die with material scarcity?
<LadyRainicorn> That doesn't make much sense.
<shevy> well, we need free sex in Utopia
<wald0> waxjar: a house has no sentimental value if you have the -same- duplicated house, in a smart society you will simply understand that this is "nonsense" :), but if you really want -that- house, you can simply talk with him lol
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<shevy> waxjar when you talk with him, bring a gun with you
<wald0> shevy: are you a volonteer to give free sex? :)
<LadyRainicorn> So if I really like Alice, but she doesn't like me, what happens?
<shevy> wald0 no, I only want to pick myself
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<pontiki> can i please ask a technical question?
<wald0> shevy: when you make sex you dont "only receive", you also give, so do you want sex? lots of ppl wants sex, problem solved lol
<shevy> pontiki YES YOU CAN
<LadyRainicorn> pontiki: Only if it is about zero cost synthesis.
<pontiki> it is about gem
<LadyRainicorn> I want sex with Alice, not Bob, or Carol, or Dave.
<shevy> ack
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: what happens: dont talk to alice :)
<pontiki> so i guess not
<LadyRainicorn> I want Alice.
<shevy> gem install foo, pontiki
<wald0> things are much simple than what ppl thinks
<LadyRainicorn> If I kill Bob, I think Alice might like me more.
<shevy> it's always about sex and violence :(
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: but alice dont like you, you cant do anything more than forget alice and search somebody else
<waxjar> i think this utopia would only work if everyone were entirely devoid or in control or their emotions
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: what you do in the actual world? kill alice? force alice?
<shevy> waxjar like machines!
<waxjar> exactly
<havenn> pontiki: what about gem?
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<wald0> waxjar: utopia will never exist
<wald0> its a false idea
<LadyRainicorn> Kill Bob is a pretty common anwer.
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: you dont want to kill bob
<wald0> that is stupid
<wald0> if you dont like bob, dont talk to him
<LadyRainicorn> No, Alice likes me.
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> lies LadyRainicorn, lies!
<LadyRainicorn> But she is in a commited relationship with Bob.
<shevy> damn I hate Bob
<LadyRainicorn> But if he were out of thr way, I could syep in and get her.
<waxjar> couldn't you simply copy alice?
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<wald0> waxjar: about utopia, check answer #99 http://www.thevenusproject.com/extras/faq
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<LadyRainicorn> Copy Alice would still like Bob.
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<pontiki> on the gem install command, when would i want to use --no-wrappers? what are the reasons not to wrap gem executables?
<LadyRainicorn> She would just copy Bob.
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<wald0> humans cannot be copied, but nobody knows what we could do in a future with genetics...
<LadyRainicorn> But if I kill Bob, she can't.
<wald0> its just a matter of how good or moral will be to do that
<LadyRainicorn> So I am going to kill the bastard who is keeping me from my sweet Alice.
<wald0> by other side, in a capitalist system, moral or "good" no matter, if you have the money, you can do anything whatever-wrong-it-is
<LadyRainicorn> So if I am a sociopath I can kill Bob then?
<LadyRainicorn> Is that basically the answer?
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: this emotion is a false emotion grown in your brain thanks to the television and south-american movies :)
<havenn> pontiki: i've never used it, seems it was created to handle DOS differences? might ask in #rubygems
<waxjar> wald0: it's still an emotion
<shevy> I got a silly question
<LadyRainicorn> You mean empathy?
<havenn> pontiki: "Not available on dosish platforms"
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: sorry, i dont have understood yet your question, i can try to answer it (even if i dont have all the answers lol) if you are more precise
<havenn> pontiki: yeah, i dunno
<pontiki> okies, havenn. it will be a relief to be away from here presently
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<LadyRainicorn> haha
<shevy> if I have a file: foo.rb, that defines one method called foo(), can I make this become part of a module, if I have a second file that has: module Bla; require 'foo.rb'; end ?
<LadyRainicorn> You don't like Bob either, pontiki?
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<LadyRainicorn> I think we should go kill him.
<apeiros> shevy: haven't you asked this like 3 times or so already? o0
<shevy> I am never sure
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<shevy> it could leak outside the module
<apeiros> and no, require still always executes top-level.
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<waxjar> i do remember that discussion
<shevy> :(
<LadyRainicorn> Yes, you can.
<shevy> !!!
<shevy> apeiros I get mixed replies all the time!
<wald0> shevy: put foo in a module and include it in anywhere you want instead to have it in a class ?
<havenn> took me a second to realize what was meant by "dosish", thought it was a word of some sort.
<shevy> wald0 no, not include
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<apeiros> LadyRainicorn: not with require.
<waxjar> you can instance_eval { File.read("foo.rb") } i guess
<shevy> just require
<LadyRainicorn> Bla.send(:define_method, :foo, &method(:foo))
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<shevy> hmmm
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<havenn> should be 'DOSish'!
<shevy> waxjar let me try that
<apeiros> waxjar: um, the block-form won't do what you want
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<waxjar> apeiros: ah, of course
<apeiros> shevy: waxjar's solution fixed: module Foo; class_eval(File.read(path), path); end
<wald0> waxjar: sorry, i dont got that "stills an emotion" part
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<shevy> aha
<shevy> let me try that as well
<waxjar> wald0: wether it comes from movies or not, it's still an emotion, it's still being felt.
<apeiros> don't use instance_eval there. it'll likely differ from what you expect.
<waxjar> wald0: it doesn't make it any less real
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* apeiros has virtual emotions about surreal events in an unreal world
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: if you put a single lettuce to 100 cow's, they will fight for it, but if you put all the ones that they need for free, they will not fight, no need to war, no need to stole, no need to kill :)
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<wald0> waxjar: warning with movies, 99% of them are not based in any "real" fact (scientifically-prooved)
<LadyRainicorn> You are not addressing the issue of my wonderful Alicr.
<LadyRainicorn> Alice
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<LadyRainicorn> I need her.
<LadyRainicorn> But that Bob.
<havenn> wald0: 100 giant lettuce on the other hand will not fight for a single miniature cow, the cow will graze upon the lettuce.
<LadyRainicorn> Fuck him.
<wald0> waxjar: watht stills an emotion? i dont know what exactly you are talking about :)
<LadyRainicorn> TELL ME HOW I GET RID OF BOB.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: if you have grown in a society that is based in competition, and "macho's is da best" mentality, you will think like that, but if you grown in a smart society, without trauma's and those psychological crap of our actual world, you will not have all thse problems that you are talking about
<wald0> no feeling the need to kill, or anything else
<LadyRainicorn> So how do I acquire Alice?
<LadyRainicorn> Maybe I can build an ice castle to keep her in.
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<LadyRainicorn> I think a change of nick is required.
<wald0> jealousy is just another fake emotion grown in our actual world thanks to the television and religiions, you -really- not feel jealousy if you think on it, if somebody is with you, its good, if you lose him, then you lose him, no matter if you lose him with foo or with bar
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* IceKing synthesizes an ice dungeon.
<wald0> IceKing: you cannot "own" alice, is not material, forget her
<wald0> if she dont want to be with you, realize it and all is fine :)
* IceKing locks alice in thr Ice Dungeon wihout a synthesizer.
<havenn> get a pull request pulled to Rails, Rspec, Bundler or Rubygems by Wed for free RubyConf India tickets - anyone who is near Indea...
<wald0> in the actual soceity you can kill her or even buy her, but not in the society that we are talking about
<havenn> India**
<wald0> so... where is the problem ? lol
<IceKing> She does, she just doesn't know it yet.
<waxjar> wald0: you say those emtions that we've been talking about come from watching movies and playing games and are therefore "false emotions". but the emotions are experiences people have, they are real things. simply saying "they're false" doesn't make them go away.
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<havenn> i think i'll try to get my free ticket, even though i don't think i can get to India >.>
<wald0> oh!
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<wald0> i just found something for you icedp
<wald0> oops, LadyRainicorn i meant
<LadyRainicorn> I am getting that the gist of your idea is that if everyone was enlightened and we could synthesize anythig thr world would be a really nice place.
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<wald0> 83, What about crimes of jealousy? :) http://www.thevenusproject.com/extras/faq
<waxjar> wald0: so making a difference between false and true emotions is useless for the person experiencing them, because they're experienced both exactly the same way.
<waxjar> wald0: i hope that cleared it up.
<havenn> now if only RubyConf would do a bounty for a free ticket! maybe a pull request accepted to 2 or 3 of the above
<LadyRainicorn> I am having some problems with accepting the plausibility of thr predicate there.
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<wald0> waxjar: the venus project studied the "animal behaviour" to understand how emotions works, then studied the human behaviour too (where they are almost the same)
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<wald0> waxjar: the founder found that if "stroke" (google translator) a cat, the dog says "grrrr", but if he gives a sausage to the dog everytime strokes the cat, the dog becomes happy everytime strokes again the cat
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<wald0> waxjar: so emotions are just answers of the environment, they exist because happen things (if you feel bad is because something bad happens)
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<godd2> If I have ruby installed to a directory that has spaces (on Win7) am I asking for trouble?
<estebanrules> probably
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: you dont need to "accept" anything, you need to -understand- why something would not exist, or why something would happen on that way, not believing it, you need the facts and the reasons, then you can say "i accept it because i understand that this will not work"
<apeiros> you're asking for trouble because you use windows :)
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: but for that, you need to read the explanations :)
<estebanrules> shouldn't windows users use Cygwin?
<havenn> godd2: I don't know of any particular problem with spaces being in the path to RUBY_ROOT
<LadyRainicorn> This idea is fundamentally implausible, and numerous false claims are made in the FAQ.
<godd2> apeiros: granted ;)
<estebanrules> hmm
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<godd2> havenn: Ruby works on it's own, but when I try to install the devkit, it seems to to install, but nothing changes and I cant build native extensions
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: if you think that is because you dont know/understand it :), please tell me your -facts- about why something is wrong instead of saying "it wont work"
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<havenn> godd2: You installed Ruby and DevKit through RubyInstaller for Windows?
<LadyRainicorn> Specifically, the technological capability to implement this is exceptionally far off, and almost all their claims referencing human behavior ignores any and all anthropological, biological, and sociological evidence.
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<wald0> its just like saying "ruby cannot execute code dynamically because it doesn't makes sense and logic to me"
<itadder> hi
<wald0> instead, run it, try it, reasech it, and say WHY ruby cannot do that
<wald0> so, same
<LadyRainicorn> Their claims are easily coubterevidenced by noting that warfare predates money.
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<havenn> godd2: I think that DevKit might be hardwired to expect RubyInstaller's Ruby.
<estebanrules> Concerning Windows I think you are better off running linux on Virtualbox
<godd2> havenn: I'm not sure what you mean by "through rubyinstaller" if you mean the devkit installation exe that is hosted on the same site, then yes
<havenn> godd2: yeah, that is all i meant
<waxjar> wald0: i understand that (i studied psychology for two years :p), i just don't see the point you're trying to make.
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: they has anthropological, biological, and sociological evidence, why you say that it doesntt ?
<havenn> godd2: i don't know, maybe start a ticket with RubyInstaller folk - i dunno if they have an irc chan?
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<wald0> waxjar: im a bit lost about the exact question right now
<waxjar> wald0: "false emotions" don't disappear by just calling them false emotions
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<wald0> waxjar: of course no, but if you -undertand- them, you will realize how stupid it is
<waxjar> i disagree. but anyway, i gotta go :p
<LadyRainicorn> There is quite a good deal of evidence to show that warfare predates money. There are modern tribal societies lacking money that still engage in warfare, usually not over resource scarcity.
<havenn> godd2: it should *just work*, sounds like a bug to me? maybe worth trying a non-spaced dir path, but i've not heard of it before
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<itadder> so anyone up with my idea ruby on power
<estebanrules> Warfare most certainly predates money
<havenn> itadder: ruby on power?
<godd2> havenn: It does work if there are no spaces in the path to the ruby installation
<LadyRainicorn> Human sexual behavior is not the result of religion, and is similar to behaviors found in many close relatives
<itadder> port powershell cmdlets to ruby
<wald0> for example, i feel jealousy in the past, then i knew a girl which has nymphomaniac, but i really liked her, and i understood that the only way to be with her is by accepting her to be with others, then i realized how stupid and useless is the jealousy feeling
<wald0> waxjar: ^
<itadder> for use on none MS system
<havenn> godd2: ohhh, yikes then yeah a bug with DevKit i'm guessing?
<LadyRainicorn> I am fairly sure advocatibg worldwide enlightenment is implausible.
<wald0> actually i dont feel jealousy at all because of that, because of have understood how stupid it is, the important thing is that "she is with me because she loves me, no matter what other things does", if she dont like me she will not be with me, what more than that is needed?
<havenn> godd2: I don't see any open issue ticket about spaces in dir names, might want to start an Issue: https://github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/issues
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<havenn> itadder: what are powershell commandlets?
<godd2> On their troubleshooting page is this: "Directories with spaces often cause problems for the DevKit’s GCC compiler." So they know it's an issue I guess
<LadyRainicorn> Your philosophy seems quite close to a secularized Buddhism. It should be noted that the Buddha wasn't an anarchist, nor did he advocate attempting to enlighten everyone.
<havenn> cmdlets*
<itadder> so ruby dev love vim more then sublimetext
<itadder> havenn: like get-host
<wald0> "worldwide enlightenment" this sounds like trying to "convince" ppl to be "good with others", this wont work, you cannot except and wait things from others, this requires "to force them to be like foo"
<havenn> itadder: ahh
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: ^
<havenn> itadder: interesting
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: instead, give them an environment where to be "good with others", without having a reason to be "bad with others", things will happen automatically
<havenn> itadder: i think vim/emacs/sublime/textmate love is a pretty even spread amongst Rubyists
<itadder> this is some powershell script I wrote havenn https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d932c56011893f57aa68
<LadyRainicorn> Jealousy seems like a reason.
<wald0> dont expect a flower to be grown by asking him to do that... isntead, give earth and water, things will happen
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<LadyRainicorn> So how do you solve the problem of unenlightened people.
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<havenn> itadder: so would you be porting the concept of cmdlets? like writing new ones in Ruby?
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<itadder> yea
<itadder> that I wish to do
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: #define unenlightened people
<itadder> but I am no programmer :(
<LadyRainicorn> That is unintentionally a good description of the problem, wald0.
<havenn> itadder: a common way to distribute little binary tools like that is to use RubyGems, which comes with Ruby
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<itadder> ahh thanks
<itadder> havenn
<itadder> so I could make the cmdlet concept via ruby gems
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<wald0> waxjar: and so, i dont feel jealousy anymore, if a girl want to stay with me, im happy, if not (or if she go with another, which is hte same), fuck it, i search another, why i should "worry" about jealousy, its absolutely nonsense
<itadder> but I am not a programmer, or a newbie DEV OP havenn
<LadyRainicorn> But Alice is unenlightened.
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<LadyRainicorn> And she wants Bob.
<havenn> itadder: yes, you could publish a gem that has a bin/ dir with your cmdlets in it, they'd get added to PATH by RubyGems
<wald0> waxjar: to be with another has no difference than "to not be with me", there's no jealousy when you lose somebody but the result is the same, so?
<LadyRainicorn> But Bob is with Carol.
<LadyRainicorn> So Alice will kill Carol.
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<wald0> LadyRainicorn: the alice and enlightenment convo makes absolutely nonsese for me :) sorry
<havenn> itadder: This is specifically how you can add an executable to a gem: http://guides.rubygems.org/make-your-own-gem/#adding-an-executable
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<LadyRainicorn> You may not want to kill Carol if you were Alice, but Alice does.
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<wald0> did you know that the alice story was entirely about a Math's book that a teacher wrote for teach math's to the kids in a story way? the original story was very different, and interesting!
<LadyRainicorn> How does utopia deal with this?
<LadyRainicorn> _mtr?
<wald0> LadyRainicorn: i dont know about any utopian design, did you ?
<wald0> im not talking about any utopia
<LadyRainicorn> Alice and her friends are from crypto.
<havenn> itadder: A nice way to get the bare scaffolding for a gem is to install bundler `gem install bundler` then run `bundle gem your_gem_name`.
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<havenn> itadder: Ruby is a great language for such things, I'd recommend checking out http://tryruby.org/
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<itadder> but I am using mac
<itadder> Mac is not posix unix or am I wrong
<havenn> itadder: Ruby comes pre-installed on OS X. OS X is POSIX.
<itadder> oh wow
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<itadder> wow got 15 minutes
<itadder> wow that cool
<wald0> waxjar: was my example good about your first question?
<havenn> itadder: The Apple folk even hired programmers to write MacRuby, which also comes preinstalled, but compiles Ruby code to Objective-C.
<itadder> so ruby came from japan
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<havenn> itadder: Many of the core devs still live in Tokyo.
<itadder> oh wow
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<itadder> I wonder why apple choose it, that is great
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<LadyRainicorn> Because yay Ruby.
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<itadder> macruby is part of xcode ?
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<havenn> itadder: They were looking for a language to replace Objective-C, since its uptake was slow. Then iOS took off and Obj-C got popular so they abandoned the migration. But we ended up with MacRuby, whose lead developer went on to form RubyMotion (a popular tool for writing iOS apps in Ruby).
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<itadder> oh wow
<havenn> itadder: Yeah, you can do MacRuby in XCode. But I think RubyMotion and MobiRuby are more popular than that route.
<itadder> I was going to do this in sublimetext
<havenn> itadder: A text editor is the tool of choice for cutting gems. So good call.
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<itadder> oh
<havenn> itadder: Terminal.app (or iTerm.app) and text editor of your choice is all you need.
<havenn> itadder: I'd highly recommend Pry as your Ruby REPL: http://pryrepl.org/
<itadder> wow so much information in one day
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<havenn> itadder: And get Homebrew installed if you haven't already: http://brew.sh/
<havenn> itadder: then: brew install ruby
<itadder> oh
<itadder> I thought ruby was preinstalled
<havenn> (to get latest security patch Ruby, with a local gem install)
<itadder> oh
<havenn> itadder: it is, but most devs don't work off of system Ruby (for various reasons)
<havenn> itadder: you certainly can
<havenn> itadder: But you'll want Homebrew to install other packages as well.
<itadder> oh wow apple forgot wget
<havenn> itadder: brew install wget
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<itadder> hmm WOW
<havenn> itadder: the BSD equivalent of `wget` is `fetch`
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<itadder> ahh OSX is based on BSD
<havenn> itadder: FreeBSD
<itadder> I got used to using powershell that I would of loved to use on the mac
<itadder> powershell was easy to do simple things
<havenn> itadder: i've heard of `pash`
<havenn> itadder: but not used it
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<havenn> pre-alpha
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<noob101> What is a good book on Ruby programming? I want to order one. I was recommended this one. --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430223634/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=mediumequalsm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1430223634
<benzrf> noob101: buying rl books is for suckers
<benzrf> use the web B)
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<noob101> The thing is that I would like to cherish the book and have it with me everywhere I go to read.
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<noob101> I can use the web but nah, I don't feel like it, I would rather spend money.
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<noob101> What is a good book on Ruby programming? I want to order one. I was recommended this one. --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430223634/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=mediumequalsm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1430223634
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<Solnse> just Roby or Rails?
<Solnse> just Ruby or Rails?
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<benzrf> noob101: wut
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<noob101> Solnse, is that great for beginners?
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<benzrf> noob101: get a ruby reference manual
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<Solnse> sure, first book I got was the 1.9 version.
<benzrf> noob101: just print up a hard copy of the contents of the rdoc site
<benzrf> noob101: then read a tutorial on the net
<noob101> is 1.9 the most modern version of ruby out right now?
<Solnse> no
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<Solnse> 2.1 but you won't find books on that yet... the one I linked is for 1.9 and 2.0, which a lot of apps still run on 1.9 so it's nice to cover both
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<itadder> oh wow pash is powershell for unix
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<noob101> mhm Good point
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<noob101> I am new to programming so i would figure that there would be a 2.1 book.
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<itadder> I a new to programing also
<noob101> So it's not a waste of money to buy the 1.8 and 1.9 ight
<noob101> right*
<itadder> I started with powershell as a devop
<benzrf> noob101: its a waste of money to buy any books
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<benzrf> noob101: you can find all the info you need on the net
<noob101> mhm ok
<Solnse> no, like I said a lot of programs are still running 1.9, and if you cover 1.9 and 2.0, anything you need to know beyond that is just changelog stuff you'd figure out easily.
<LadyRainicorn> Books are for n00bz.
* benzrf fistbunps LadyRainicorn
<noob101> firstbumps*
<noob101> fistbumps*
<noob101> lol...
<Solnse> I agree everything you need is on the net, but I have a big library because I like books, and sometimes I want to get away from a screen and just do some reading.
<LadyRainicorn> Real programmers learn a new language by reading disassembler output of the interpreter.
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<noob101> ok can u then tell me then where I can find some pages on "the Ruby Programming Book"?
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<noob101> I just want a peek at it.
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<LadyRainicorn> thepiratebay.se
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<Solnse> you can 'look inside' the older version on Amazon ... the newer edition doesn't have pages on there yet, but you can assume it'll be very close . http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0974514055/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0974514055&linkCode=as2&tag=thgoli08f-20
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<godd2> If youre a visual learner, the Lynda.com tutorial on Ruby is pretty good. That's how I learned the basics
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<LadyRainicorn> My method is superior.
<LadyRainicorn> All other methods are inferior.
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<itadder> I have have trouble focusing for long time
<itadder> so learning ruby and staying focused would be hard
<benzrf> itadder: i SUCK at focusing
<benzrf> but i learned ruby ;)
<tt1187> itadder same problem... Guess you got to just persevere
<itadder> How did you manage to learn and focus
<itadder> I wish I was good perseverance
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<itadder> Especially since a lot of projects are now using Python and Ruby, I would like to at least learn done for use as a administrator devop
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<LadyRainicorn> itadder: methamphetamine
<LadyRainicorn> obviously.
<itadder> I am using Siri on my Mac to translate my speech to text
<LadyRainicorn> Also rainbows.
<itadder> oh shooot I forgot to take my adderal
<LadyRainicorn> Rainbows and methamphetamine.
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<Rylee> that is the solution to learning ruby
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<Rylee> shooting up rainbows into my veins
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<LadyRainicorn> It is.
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<BuSerD> @itadder . do you program in any languages or will ruby be your first try in learning to program?
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<itadder> my first, altough have I have programmed in powershell
<itadder> but no this will be my first
<Andrevan> itadder: solution: pair program
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<itadder> pair
<itadder> oh wow
<itadder> Pair programming is an agile software development technique in which two programmers work together at one workstation. One, the driver, writes code while the other, the observer or navigator,[1] reviews each line of code as it is typed in. The two programmers switch roles frequently.
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<BuSerD> So it's very individualized but I began to work with ruby after collecting a handful of other languages. It was hard but I already knew I liked programming.
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<havenwood> Trio programming is an uber-agile software development technique in which three programmers work together at one workstation.
<itadder> I just want to move away from the hell desk
<BuSerD> If you can learn to like it your task of learning it should become more manageable
<itadder> I work the HEll desk and wish to become a DEVOP
<itadder> something were I do not need to be answering support alls
<havenwood> or is it three is a party and four is a crowd? party programming
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<BuSerD> that's a worthy career goal but I don't believe that's the best reason to learn to program.
<itadder> oh and I love to automate
<itadder> I would love to automate a lot of my work flows
<noob101> I ordered the book yaaaay! I feel so good.
<noob101> Wooo!
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<BuSerD> that's a start. it should however be noted that if you find it boring or you fail to commit to the process learning to program will be all but impossible.
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<BuSerD> try this -> https://rubymonk.com/
<BuSerD> it's interactive tutorials.
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<BuSerD> they should be able to teach while holding your focus for a little while
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<itadder> I want to also see what all the fuss about programing
<benzrf> noob101: you moron
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<itadder> do you program in dark room or with light
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<havenwood> noob101: cool, what book did you opt for?
<BuSerD> lol, this is just me and my team mates hate it but I like to have bright environment and some white noise in the background.
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<itadder> that also me
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<itadder> I love bright
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<itadder> I also focusatwill.com
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<itadder> but thier IOS apps does not always work :(
<havenwood> benzrf: MINASWAN
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<itadder> okay let me fireup sublime text
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<BuSerD> good luck itadder
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<itadder> 1% of the book completed
<itadder> is Ruby used by devops BuSerD
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<havenwood> itadder: Pretty popular for DevOps. Chef and Puppet are both written in Ruby.
<itadder> oh
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<BuSerD> Chef was actually why I started learning ruby. Just as havenwood mentioned, we use it heavily in DevOps for task automation.
<BuSerD> I like ansible a little better personally but I learn what is required on the job.
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<BuSerD> and play with the other stuff in my own time.
<itadder> yea I want to use it for that like I use powershell
<itadder> okay I am doing things right now, but I think i need a powernap
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<noob101> havenwood, I got Beginning Ruby by Peter Cooper
<noob101> I bought the book woo!
<havenwood> noob101: nice, haven't read it but Peter Cooper is awesome
<itadder> so should I start with text wrangler or subliemtext
<itadder> does peter coopper hangout here
<noob101> I use Notepad++
<noob101> Sublime is alright
<itadder> I am on the mac
<benzrf> noob101: screw notepad++ use vim
<benzrf> vim is the shit
<itadder> if I use sublime what should I add what plugins
<benzrf> dont use sublime
<itadder> for ruby
<benzrf> sublime isnt even FOSS
<benzrf> use vim
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<havenwood> itadder: My personal preference is TextMate2: https://github.com/textmate/textmate#readme
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<havenwood> (on OS X)
<itadder> but I like my arrow keys
<benzrf> dammit guys
<benzrf> use vim
<benzrf> you can use arrow keys in vim
<benzrf> i use arrow keys in vim
<havenwood> benzrf: no, you use TextMate!
<TenJack> is it ok to user first_or_create for a has_one relationship? something like Book.where(:user_id => 1, :title => "Hello").first_or_create
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<TenJack> User has_one Book
<LadyRainicorn> #rails
<itadder> hmm
<MrZYX> TenJack: #RubyOnRails
<benzrf> havenwood: fu vim4lyfe
<havenwood> benzrf: Sublime, TextMate2, MacVim and Aquamacs are all popular
<benzrf> wtf is macvim
<itadder> wow textmate is not FOSs either
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<benzrf> havenwood: this looks entirely pointless
<havenwood> itadder: it is so :OP
<itadder> oh I am wrong
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<havenwood> itadder: totally open source!
<havenwood> :)
<itadder> ahh sublime is the none free one
<havenwood> benzrf: are you an OS X user?
<benzrf> havenwood: i use buntu
<benzrf> what is minaswan bwtw
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<havenwood> benzrf: An acronym for Matz is nice and so we are nice.
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<benzrf> o
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<benzrf> is matz nice
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<havenwood> benzrf: I elbowed him at RubyConf.
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<itadder> how did you get vim to use arrow keys BuSerD
<itadder> benzrf: opps
<havenwood> benzrf: And he bit me!!! Not nice at all.
<havenwood> benzrf: Yeah, he is very nice.
<havenwood> itadder: vim instead of vi
<itadder> in college when I took a course on unix in solaris
<itadder> the Professor was testing handon each student if they learned VI
<benzrf> itadder: vim uses arrows by default...
<itadder> he would go to each student desk and ask him to do 10 thigns in VI
<benzrf> *allows
<itadder> I passed that quiz, but from that day on I feared VI
<itadder> mind you this was years ago
<benzrf> what is even wrong with vi
<itadder> my professor giving us a exam on VI
<benzrf> it has some annoying ish bits like the inability to backspace text you didnt just write in insert...
<itadder> and it was a pop quiz
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<benzrf> but all of those are gone in vim afaik
<itadder> oh
<benzrf> hell, vim without command mode makes a perfectly fine notepad alternative
<benzrf> *normal mode
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<itadder> why did people love VI
<havenwood> itadder: Stockholm syndrome
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<havenwood> j/k j/k
<havenwood> LightTable
<itadder> wow no mouse needed for VIM
<itadder> hmm I have not used it long long long time, and that professor scared everyone in to using VIM
<itadder> so why would someone needed VIM or textmate if VIM is just as good or better
<itadder> ahh no syntax highlighting
<benzrf> itadder: what
<benzrf> of course vim has syntax highlighting
<benzrf> itadder: people use textmate instead of vim for the reason you do
<benzrf> they are scared of it\
<benzrf> >:3
<havenwood> there is more than one way to do it
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<itadder> oh it does
<itadder> hmm
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<benzrf> anyway if vim cant do it and doesnt have a plugin for it, your editor probably shouldnt be doing it
<benzrf> shells exist for a reason
<itadder> what about snipets and autocomplete
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<havenwood> not quite ready to switch to LightTable with Ruby, but looks promising
<itadder> anyways I should be learning not bitchign right :)
<itadder> lol
<havenwood> nice to be able to hack on your text editor in clojure :)
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<havenwood> now that it is open sourced
<itadder> sumblime is expensive
<havenwood> benzrf: Why aren't you using Emacs when it is clearly superior?
<itadder> LOL
<itadder> http://tryruby.org/levels/1/challenges/1 wow this is cool
<pskosinski> I want to make a program which will be kind of wrapper on another program and it should be interactive. E.g. app foo runs in background app bar and: 1) waits for user input to e.g. terminate bar 2) monitors bar if it returned an error, etc. What is best way to do that?
<benzrf> havenwood: because vim is gud enuf for me
<benzrf> havenwood: and i do not feel like learning a whole new thing atm
<havenwood> benzrf: :P
<benzrf> havenwood: in 10 years maybe i will be using emacs w/ evil
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<itadder> wow VIM is not VI
<itadder> I forgot what VI stood for
<itadder> VI is not emac
<havenwood> pskosinski: Are both the app and its supervisor going to be in Ruby?
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<itadder> i recall the popular in college was PICO or NANO
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<pskosinski> havenwood: No
<pskosinski> havenwood: app can be in anything, Ruby, C, bash…
<havenwood> pskosinski: God and Bluepill are two popular Ruby process monitoring gems.
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<havenwood> i got a crazy look at a coffee shop the other day discussing Unicorn/Rainbows! and God/Bluepill choice for a server
<itadder> I think I may have to learn VIM
<itadder> benzrf: any good tutourioal
<havenwood> "Hmm, I was thinking of going from Unicorn to Rainbows! and God isn't working great for our use case so I'm considering Bluepill.
<havenwood> "
<itadder> I need a powernap
<itadder> let me put a alarm
<havenwood> sound like a crazy person
<Mon_Ouie> pskosinski: You can use Process.spawn to start the program, redirect its output and error streams and read from there
<BuSerD> itadder, it has a tutorial built-in. type vimtutor in the terminal app
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<BuSerD> but if you want to use a web based version a quick google search will find a ton of them.
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<itadder> ahh
<itadder> on the mac is terimal.app good enough
<havenwood> itadder: yes
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<itadder> BuSerD: I see iterm but it not polished
<itadder> see this is why I need a friend to work with me side by side
<BuSerD> pskosinski: a 1k ways to skin this cat. spend a little time trying to determine how important this is. does it need to scale etc...
<itadder> I love to ask so much question
<itadder> nature calls bah
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<Mon_Ouie> btw, how long have the Process.clock_* methods been around?
<havenwood> Mon_Ouie: 2.1.1
<havenwood> 2.1.0**
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<itadder> bah I need a third screen
<Mon_Ouie> Aha, that's why I'd never noticed them before then
<itadder> maybe I can ssh via my ipad and use my bluetoothkeyboard to runt he code
<benzrf> itadder: vimtutor
<benzrf> itadder: type that as a command
<benzrf> itadder: if I can do codes on a laptop screen then you can do it w/ two large ones
<benzrf> >:o
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<itadder> I have one 19 inch dell screen and my macbook pro
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<BuSerD> @itadder, iTerm2 is far more polished but I personally find that the default terminal gets the job done.
<itadder> I am using mavericks
<itadder> BuSerD: yea to start I want defualt for now
<BuSerD> I will say that if you can avoid using XCode while trying to learn to program you can avoid a lot of frustration.
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<itadder> great
<itadder> so I tried that command and got a error
<itadder> not an editor command
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<itadder> and when I just type v I get visual
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<itadder> I do recall esc and then :q to quit or :w filename to save
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<shevy> oh man
<itadder> hi shevy thanks for eariler
<itadder> I am pumped this is execting
<shevy> right after testing that class_eval thing, I accidentally hit some button, computer restarted and I could not come up again :(
<benzrf> itadder: use vimtutor in bash
<benzrf> itadder: not in vim
<shevy> so I had to reinstall, and now am on slackware 64
<itadder> ahh
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<shevy> itadder well looks like you had a better time than me :P
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<itadder> do you use the terminal in fullscreen
<shevy> setting up everything will take a few hours...
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<BuSerD> slackware, my grandpa's linux distro. :)
<shevy> kde konsole, yeah
<itadder> ahh WOW
<itadder> that worked benzrf
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<shevy> 6 tabs open right now, each tab does something. either compiling or backing up...
<benzrf> itadder: :)
<itadder> also I am dylsexic I want ot make the font better to read
<shevy> libtool: link: warning: `/usr/lib64/libffi.la' seems to be moved
<havenwood> shevy: working as intended: WONTFIX
<shevy> itadder are you sure that is dyslexic and not just short sighted ;)
<itadder> I use opendyslexic
<itadder> maybe shortsighted
<itadder> it more of speech issues with sounding out words
<shevy> because I have bad eyes myself so I always increase the size of my fonts a lot
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<itadder> it a form of dylxia not flipping words
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<itadder> shevy: yea I need to increasse the font size
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<itadder> but shevy I also use opendyslexic, even now my iphone and ipad when the new profile feature that apples allows to add your own font
<BuSerD> menlo is a good font on a mac. i use terminus on my freebsd workstation.
<itadder> vimtutor worked
<itadder> so how do I make opendyslexic defualt with maybe size 14
<shevy> itadder kk, can't comment on that at all, I dont even have an iphone or ipad and never had
<itadder> or mento
<itadder> but shevy even as my default OS font is opendyslexic and even in windows at work
<shevy> not even smartphones or tablets, I am ultra conservative. I live like in 1999
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<itadder> shevy: http://opendyslexic.org/
<itadder> let me make my ipad a third screen
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<itadder> bah fmaily just called
<itadder> they want me to come over
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<itadder> so far I have yet to touch code learning vim right now
<Hanmac> wald0: there is some german news about spain & ETA: http://derstandard.at/1388650489969/Panne-bei-Polizeiaktion-gegen-Verbindungsleute-der-ETA
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<wald0> Hanmac: blerf, eta are bored kiddies
<shevy> itadder vim is boring, use ruby instead!
<Hanmac> wald0: did you watched more doctorwho or still at S03E05 ?
<itadder> will use VIm to code ruby
<wald0> Hanmac: not today, i have not much free time :/ but most of the time i dont are motivated for work too lol
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<itadder> this guide says to use text wrangler
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<itadder> oh wow menlo is not bad at 14
<benzrf> itadder: ignore it
<benzrf> itadder: also, i enjoy the font Inconsolata
<benzrf> it looks like this:
<itadder> what theme would best for my eyes shevy
<itadder> pro man page homebrew the white one is no good
<wald0> yeah :)
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<benzrf> itadder: check out the screenshot i posted :v
<shevy> itadder dunno I usually have white font on dark background in a terminal
<itadder> okay le met chekc out
<itadder> I have so many windows open right now
<itadder> oh I love that
<itadder> easy on the eyes
<itadder> but it a bit burly the highlight parts
<itadder> I can't see difference
<benzrf> burly?
<itadder> not burly
<itadder> it good
<itadder> but
<itadder> the lighter blue makes hard for me to see from far
<itadder> or something
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<itadder> wow this one with yellow background is not bad
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<itadder> looks like a digital postit note
<itadder> menlo is great and at 18 I can read it
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<itadder> hjkl and I should be able to move faster wow
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<havenwood> itamaryu: Menlo is great
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<shevy> I really hate how brittle a linux system can be
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<shevy> emacs: error while loading shared libraries: libpangoft2-1.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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<shevy> why the **** is emacs used when one compiles gettext
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<hoelzro> shevy: because it has a graphical mode, and probably some library uses pango down the line?
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<shevy> hoelzro yeah
<hoelzro> it would be possible to have a terminal executable and a gui executable with different linking stuff, though
<hoelzro> but it's seldom worth the hassle
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<wald0> shevy: publish somewhere these rb demo files! :)
<wald0> im finishing to re-read my book and re-structure my tutorial
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<shevy> I think my gripe with gettext here is why it requires emacs in the first place. I think it may be due to configure picking it up when it checks the system
<shevy> it indeed has a no emacs mode, --without-emacs "do not use Emacs, don't install po-mode"
<shevy> wald0 one thing after the other
<shevy> wald0 I only have lynx as my browser right now :P
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<miah> hardcore
<Hanmac> shevy look at this cool pants: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7996202240/hBE2D2A55/
<shevy> mplayer was also not working because the older one depended on glib
<miah> that you're using lynx and not even links. =)
<shevy> miah dunno, just need something to check on stuff from the commandline! :(
<miah> ya
<miah> i operated in pure linux cli mode for a few years
<shevy> is there a commandline browser in ruby? :>
<miah> not that i am aware. go write one? =)
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<shevy> oh well
<shevy> so much to do, so little time
<miah> hard to search for that without getting over 9000 links about rails
<shevy> ewwww
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<shevy> rails should really become its own language
<miah> well, i disagree. i think you could apply that same argument to Chef and Puppet
<miah> since all three are very heavily based on a end user dsl
<shevy> wald0 hmm I could make a tarball of that directory and upload to some ftp site if that is ok
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<miah> i've been forgoing the dsl in 99% of the use cases with chef and having great success
<miah> the dsl, and specifically 'recipes' make things so.. tricky and hard for new users to understand
<wald0> shevy: sure! :) i would like to read them
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<wald0> shevy: trying to use gettext?
<miah> its hard to see the difference between dsl and ruby, and additionally since there are multiple phases of executing
<shevy> wald0 just finished recompiling gettext, even without emacs now
<shevy> wald0 ok let me try...
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<miah> iirc, the linux distro i build back in the day completely lacked emacs
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<shevy> wald0, does that work? http://members.a1.net/shevegen/TEST.tar.xz I have no idea, I tried to upload from the commandline...
<shevy> miah well I dont know chef or puppet but they seem much smaller than rails
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<shevy> rails kinda impacts the whole ruby ecosystem like a meteorite
<miah> shevy: true
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<shevy> though I must admit, ruby without rails would be much smaller
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<wald0> xz: TEST.tar.xz: Compressed data is corrupt
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<wald0> seems like your upload was not fully finished, shevy
<shevy> ack
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<shevy> could be it was in ascii mode hmm
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<Hanmac> shevy i would compare rails like the impact that makes the moon ... it destroys nearly everything that was there before but create something new (but in rails case i would not say better ;P )
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<miah> i think its great that rails has brought many people to ruby
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<miah> but i say the same thing about 'chef', and 'puppet' in that, i wish more of those people would be willing to pickup books like 'eloquent ruby' or 'practical object oriented design in ruby'
<miah> (and actually read / study them)
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<benzrf> yeah :|
<Hanmac> miah RMXP brought many people to ruby too ;P
<benzrf> rmxp?
<benzrf> i should learn rake...
<miah> rake isn't too bad
<miah> i am not 100% efficient in it, but i know enough to get shit done. which i think is all you need
<miah> i've used thor more though
<miah> but mostly because i tend to write systems/cli type stuff
<miah> and i feel like optparse is super wordy
<benzrf> what is thor
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<Hanmac> benzrf: RPGMaker XP (or VX or VXAce) ... 2D Game Editor/Maker from Enterbrain designed to make RPG Games like GoldenSun or Zelda (or similar)
<benzrf> miah: ha
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<wald0> miah: have you see trollop? im going to pick this one for option parsing, seems like much easier to code/read
<wald0> let's say handy
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<wald0> miah: im learning ruby for make some gui interfaces but specially with a cli focus (i always did everything in bash before), did you have some .rb files to share? i would like to read examples of cli codes :)
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<Hanmac> wald0 what was your reaction to the DoctorWho Episodes "EmptyChild" or "the ImposiblePlanet" ? ;P
<miah> bunch here
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<miah> i've written a few of those and many in that style
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<miah> these are all monitoring plugins for sensu (which is meant to replace nagios)
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<miah> so they are simple sli apps that connect to a service, or check a local state and report a status to a central server
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<miah> been hacking this recently; https://github.com/SimpleFinance/java
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<shevy> ack
<shevy> there is java in the url!
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<miah> i basically wrote a really simple rvm for java
<miah> that you interface through chef
<shevy> lynx is really useless for navigation ...
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<miah> git clone && tree =)
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<wald0> shevy: are you not a lover of java? :)
<shevy> wald0 no, it is so verbose
<wald0> shevy: try links -g :)
<benzrf> java ft
<benzrf> l
<shevy> lynx shocked me, I gotta be patient in recompiling the gtk-stuff now
* Hanmac is a hypocrite because he uses java programs but hate java as language
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<wald0> shevy: why you want gtk if you can have efl ? =)
<wald0> Hanmac: why you hate java?
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<wald0> miah: checking, btw what is this "option parse" gem used on these files? i think that i have read about it recently, looks nice to declare and read
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<wald0> well structured*
<Hanmac> wald0: like what shevy says to much verbose, and to much missuse of Factory pattern (some like ProgammNameFactoryFactoryFactoryClass which makes ProgammNameFactoryFactoryClass and so on ... )
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<wald0> #_#
<benzrf> i do not think i have ever seen a factory factory factory
<benzrf> i might have seen a factory factory once but i dont think so
<hoelzro> it's factories all the way down.
<miah> wald0: on which, the sensu plugins
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<miah> or the chef stuff? the sensu stuff all uses thor iirc.
<miah> ya thats all thor
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<wald0> mmh, looks nice
<miah> the code for sensu plugin is here https://github.com/sensu/sensu-plugin
<wald0> miah: did you tried trollop? any comment about it?
<miah> ah. i am wrong
<miah> they are using mixlib-cli now
<Hanmac> benzrf: did you remenber the simsons episode where Marge was in a new kitchen with a Bread Making Machine Making Machine? (it was a Machine which makes Bread-Making-Machine's)
<shevy> wald0 hmm can I have a browser in efl without gtk?
<benzrf> Hanmac: have not watched that muc h simsons
<benzrf> Hanmac: but sounds very java
<miah> lemme see if i have any thor code up
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<Hanmac> >> "bot are you there?"
<shevy> wald0 basically I need a browser
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<miah> hey now.. rms gets by without a browser. you can too! =)
<shevy> I am not like rms
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<shevy> he is more like jesus
<shevy> I could not follow into the GPL3 crusade :(
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<Mike98632> I'm trying to run a program called screenruler, but I get this error. Can anyone help me figure out what I need to fix this? http://pastebin.com/p5rEpVPJ
<ddd> user in another channel is parsing a bunch of 1MB files, reads in the whole file and then parses each line once in for specific CSV fields. he's reporting *seriously* slow parse times, though admittedly he's filing out one hell of a huge Hash. I'm wondering if there is a way to profile specifically what in the parsing is slowing it down (is it the line grab, the overall value parse-out, a specific 'type' (string, Integer) ...
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<ddd> ... causing a slowdown, or the actual stuffing into the Hash.
<shevy> Mike98632 can you show the error line here? my firefox is not working right now
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<ddd> what would I suggest to speed that up beyond forking a few sub processes to grab say 10 files each and parse those (spawning multiple parsing sessions)
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<Mike98632> shevy: /usr/lib/ruby/vendor_ruby/1.8/x86_64-linux/pango.so: /usr/lib/ruby/vendor_ruby/1.8/x86_64-linux/pango.so: undefined symbol: rb_cCairo_Context - /usr/lib/ruby/vendor_ruby/1.8/x86_64-linux/pango.so (LoadError)
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> that is not available by default
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<shevy> so I assume you have or want to make use of rbcairo or perhaps ruby-gnome
<shevy> and apparently pango.so there reports some missing symbol rb_cCairo_Context which I would assume to be in rbcairo
<shevy> rcairo rather
<shevy> pango.so is used in ruby-gnome I guess
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<Hanmac> Mike98632 & shevy that is a error that the shared lib cant find the "rb_cCairo_Context" object which is marked as "extern" inside the pango gem ... that means before you require "pango" you NEEED to require the special file that defines "rb_cCairo_Context" ... you can try »require "cairo"« before »require "pango"«
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* Hanmac knows about c gems and how they work, and what errors they raise if they do not
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<wald0> shevy: you can have webkit (apple browser iirc) in efl but i never tried to compile it because i have an old dependency
<Mike98632> Hanmac: How would I get it to work for a program I already have installed though?
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<Hanmac> Mike98632: as i said, try to require some cairo object ... (and PS: you REALLY need to upgrade your ruby version)
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<wald0> shevy: shoudl be this one, but i dont suggest you to compile it :þ http://download.enlightenment.org/rel/libs/webkit-efl/
<wald0> shevy: links -g is similar to lynx, but is graphical mode (even out of X11)
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<wald0> miah: is not emacs a browser too?
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<wald0> mmh, what is a good "configuration files" feature/gem to use in ruby ? i want one that can be dynamic and that is easy to modify by the users
<wald0> (easy to modify the conf files)
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<Hanmac> Mike98632: if i smell it correct you installed "ruby-pango" and "ruby-cairo" as dpkg packages on ubuntu/debian ... in your file/script you need to require "cairo" before require "pango" to get it working (pango maybe cant to it itself for you)
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<shevy> wald0 I think webkit depends on gtk unfortunately
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<wald0> shevy: really? the efl dependency should replace the gtk ones, entirely non-depending on gtk, but i dont know by experience compiling it so i cant tell you
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<wald0> shevy: just use google chrome as binary :)
<wald0> their static binary lol
<wald0> chromium is very good
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<wald0> does || works like the shell OR in ruby ?
<hoelzro> wald0: meaning short circuiting behavior? if so, yes
<hoelzro> I like to think of || like so:
<wald0> hoelzro: just trying to understand a code that i just readed :)
<hoelzro> result = lhs unless lhs ; result = rhs ; end
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<wald0> @editor || Chef::Config[:editor] || ENV['EDITOR']
<soahccc> use the first which isn't falsy
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<shevy> wald0 hmm
<shevy> wald0 naaaah I can't stand google
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<rankine> just started using pry, anyone have any useful tips/tricks?
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<soahccc> wald0: Does the shell return the value? foo = nil || false || "bar" results in foo = "bar" not a boolean value
<soahccc> rankine: Well binding.pry =)
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<soahccc> rankine: And I like pry-nav which lets you use prev/next
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<wald0> miah: do you know why sensu moved to mixlib-cli ? im searching for an options parser to use in my tools (but to stick at the same one for all of my scripts)
<rankine> soahccc: yeah that one is amazing :) debugging is pretty fun now
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<havenwood> rankine: type `help` then for each command do `help ls` etc
<havenwood> help cat
<wald0> shevy: why not?
<rankine> soahccc: with pry-nav, it goes to the next 'binding.pry'?
<wald0> rankine: cd Fixnum ; ls
<soahccc> rankine: And read the FAQ. There are tips like "end with ; do not dump the result"
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<havenwood> rankine: pry-doc is a must (`gem install pry-doc`) and pry-theme for pretty colors
<recurrence> can I make a switch statement that has a case that checks if the value is a key in a hash?
<soahccc> rankine: If you have multiple binding.pry it will always skip to the next when you "exit"... pry-nav lets you execute command by command from your haltpoint
<rankine> havenwood: nice, thanks. got pry-doc, but I think I'm missing the pretty colors
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<rankine> soahccc: oh cool, like gdb for C
<havenwood> rankine: then in my `.pryrc` to go with pry-theme: Pry.config.theme = 'railscasts'
<soahccc> I just "found" this obvious channel. Can somebody tell me the difference to ruby-lang?
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<havenwood> soahccc: This channel doesn't require that you reg your nick
<Mon_Ouie> ruby-lang is the official one
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<soahccc> yeah it sucks when my bouncer reconnects. I get a different name which I can't login with and I can't change my nickname "while banned on channel #ruby-lang"
<havenwood> soahccc: python etc do the same, one for registered nicks only (tends to be less chatter) then one for the open public
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<soahccc> okay got it :)
<ddd> just set upo your bouncer not to change your nick on disconnect
<ddd> no need at all to change. people can /whois you to see what your last active time was
<soahccc> I think it's because the old connection isn't closed or something. I use a ruby bouncer! :D but it's pretty unstable
<ddd> hehe
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<canton7> same! I wrote my own. It's also pretty unstable sometimes
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<Mon_Ouie> Well being registered or not isn't really the reason for the existence of both though, for a long time you could talk on #ruby-lang without being registered
<soahccc> tkellem works kinda good but it isn't really active either... One man side project... Unfortunately this is too high for me
<Hanmac> soahccc: "#ruby are for developers that work WITH ruby , #ruby-lang are for the developers OF ruby" ;P
<ddd> think the registration was for cutting down drive-by spammers
<soahccc> Ohh and I bothered them with my questions :<
<canton7> tbh the two get pretty much the same sorts of questions
<ddd> yeah i've always used both channels for that reason. didn't dawn on me the With vs For
<ddd> er Of
<havenwood> drbrain made some overture towards merging the two channels, but i have mixed feelings
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<Mon_Ouie> Hanmac: That would be #ruby-dev
<Hanmac> huch, i miss that one ,P
<havenwood> #ruby-core
<ddd> so is #ruby-lang another 'with' channel?
<Mon_Ouie> Ah, right, wasn't sure that was the name
<ddd> and -core and -dev are the 'of' channels?
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<Mon_Ouie> -dev doesn't exist I think, I just didn't remember the name of the 'of' channel
<ddd> ah
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<Mon_Ouie> But yeah, #ruby and #ruby-lang serve the same purpose
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<ddd> so #ruby-lang is actually the 'official' 'with' channel run by the 'of' guys then
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<shevy> wald0 because google is destroying competition as it spreads
<ddd> and this chan is a secondary 'with'
<ddd> or competing 'with' if you ask me
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<soahccc> Maybe my brain fools me but when I first looked for a channel there was no #ruby and I googled that it was #ruby-lang which I never would have guessed
<shevy> yeah it's weird soahccc
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<Mon_Ouie> Yeah, though not quite "run" by the ruby-core developers, it's just the one your are linked to on the website. Some of the ops there are developers of ruby, some aren't.
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<shevy> you can find people on #ruby-lang who will never be on #ruby
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<ddd> yeah the -lang throws it off. I looked for a #ruby channel when i first got into ruby. never dawned on me the official channel would be -lang. But i didn't come to ruby through the ruby-lang.org site. I came to ruby through IRC
<Hanmac> shevy: and also reverse
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<shevy> one day we will have destroyed #ruby-lang though
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<shevy> 332 vs 837 WE ARE STRONGER!
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<ddd> i actually see probably 2 - 3 times more activity in this one than i do in the other
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<ddd> though it has a fair amount of targeted traffic of its own
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<ddd> i also find this channel less.. 'snide' in reponses regardless of your level of 'Clue' which i like
<apeiros> ddd: odd, I'm on both channels.
<soahccc> Yeah I also noticed that it was a bit quite in there but I assume they're all in the rails channel :>
<ddd> apeiros so am i
<apeiros> your responses are snide? :)
<ddd> well it depends on the person. like you hanmac and others are generally congenial in your reponses in both channels. it just seems friendlier in the responses here vs there
<ddd> then again it could be the level of expertise expected there vs here, idk. spitballing on why
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<Hanmac> ddd: i am mostly very helpful ... i cant help it, i played to much RPGs to reject a "help-quest" ;P ... but i am not doing "rails-quests" ... thats why i push the ones that ask rails questions there into the right room
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<ddd> hanmac and you should. i've absolutely no issues with that
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<wald0> shevy: competition is not good so i dont have problem if google destroy's it :) but by other side monopol is not good too (until we move out to a non-monetary system)
<ddd> there's a great deal of intermingle, but i've no problems with rails stuff pushed to the rails channel. i agree with it personally
<wald0> out of a monetary system, monopol is good :)
<apeiros> ddd: you just killed my self deprecating joke :(
<apeiros> (which, as any good joke, probably contains a bit of truth)
<ddd> apeiros was i being blind as a bat again? ;)
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<ddd> and no, i actually find you the same in both channels. its rare in there that you expect a certain level of knowledge, that you don't in here. and when you do its question-bound.
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<Xeago> I'm bored what do I do?
<soahccc> ddd: Damn I not only have to translate the words you use I also have to look at the definition :S
<Hanmac> Xeago: finding bugs in rdoc ? ;P
<apeiros> Xeago: i-am-bored.com ?
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<Xeago> something that'll give value to me
<ddd> soahccc hehe, my friends pick on me too for it. i use big words. not trying to flaunt it, i was just taught that if you know it use it. or it dies.
<apeiros> ddd: heh, I actually implied that I was snide, so I was surprised, that there should be a difference in snideness between the channels if I'm in both ;-)
<soahccc> ddd: Yeah I also tend to do that
<ddd> i lost a girlfriend once who trul thought i was trying to be a showoff using big words and make her feel stupid. didn't matter what i said she refused to believe this is how i talk normally
<ddd> apeiros ehh could be a channel thing, could be a misreading on my part. idk.
<centrx> I talk good
<ddd> hehe, yeah thats the level she grew up with
<soahccc> If I think of the PHP channel years ago... they were snide
<ddd> in her world that was the way people wer expected to talk. slangishly
<shevy> the problem is with the ability of who can ban other people
<shevy> like zenspider vs. poor RubyPanther here
<ddd> hehe
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<Xeago> ima fix my shell environment
<ddd> zen comes across as not really giving a damn so long as you're not being disrptive to the channel. he's got other fish to fry
<shevy> tsume managed to go down the same path but he only joined #rubyforce, not #ruby :(
<RubyPanther> I'm not in his weight class, but I didn't tap
<shevy> hehe
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<shevy> wald0 I almost have everything restored now, gtk is compiling finally. pango/atk/cairo/glib work fine again
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<wald0> shevy: just curious, why not using a (working) distro?
<wald0> note that i said "working" because most of them doesnt works correctly :)
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<soahccc> Speaking of working distros... Can somebody recommend an easy and clean GUI? I'm not using linux so I just know that KDE was exactly not that when I saw it the last time
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<centrx> soahccc, How easy and clean?
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<soahccc> it will be use for browsing and office stuff only. for a windows user
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<centrx> soahccc, The main heavyweight "desktop environments" in Linux are GNOME and KDE.
<soahccc> I only know Gnome and KDE to be honest
<centrx> soahccc, Major lightweight desktop environments are LXDE and XFCE
<wald0> centrx: what about enlightenment? :)
<centrx> soahccc, There is also the option of not using a full-throated "desktop environment". All you need is what is called a "window manager"
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<centrx> Ah Enlightenment yes
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<centrx> wald0, The latest version of Enlightenment has been in development so long...
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<wald0> centrx: not really, you are talking about e16, but e17 was released 1 year ago (after 10 years of development), there's e18 released too now :)
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<centrx> wald0, Although Enlightenment used to be considered halfway between a desktop environment and a window manager, not a full-blown desktop environment
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<centrx> soahccc, So for example, I use OpenBox with fbpanel as my GUI environment
<soahccc> Is Mint considerable? I noticed the name quite often but more in the context of development
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<centrx> soahccc, It is very basic, but fast and no-nonsense
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<centrx> soahccc, Mint is a popular Debian-based distribution
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<wald0> centrx: not full-blown ? :) just see the terminal made by enlightenment: http://youtu.be/ibPziLRGvkg
<soahccc> ahh okay so it's out of date when shipped? xD
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<shevy> gah, right after I said that, firefox froze the system
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<wald0> shevy: that bloated gecko... what is it in fact? a fork of java?
<shevy> wald0 doesn't it use webkit as well?
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<shevy> wheee, konqueror works again :)
<wald0> shevy: firefox? i dont think... they always used gecko as the internal engine, i dont think that they are switch (otherwise tehre should be another proejct instead of firefox, imho)
<Hanmac> hihihi it is very funny when a special rdoc version colide with a special ruby version ;D
<centrx> wald0, Not a bad thing, I prefer lightweight GUI
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<centrx> soahccc, No I don't think it is out of date. Mint is one of the more bleeding-edge distros
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<centrx> soahccc, They update the packages from the Debian/Ubuntu basis they start with
<wald0> centrx: who said is not lightweight? :) its more light than other things, even samsung is using it for the internal engine for their next phones
<soahccc> ohh okay... We went away from debian on our servers due to all the old packages where you end up compiling everything manually making apt useless
<shevy> soahccc hehehehe
<shevy> mint is nice
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<shevy> but debian stinks
* Hanmac has ubuntu but added also some minty features (cinnamon is much more clean than unity)
<shevy> ubuntu stinks even more than debian
<wald0> soahccc: whats wrong with debian testing? it is 4-month old
<centrx> wald0, Well KDE and GNOME add all sorts of crap, that is what they like to be called desktop environments
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* Hanmac is a trunken nightly user ,P
<wald0> shevy: ubuntu has older packages than debian too lol
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<shevy> wald0 lol
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<shevy> I am on xfce now
<shevy> kde took 10 seconds to startup - then it froze the computer (due to firefox I think)
<centrx> Well Ubuntu has a six-month release cycle for their non-LTS releases
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<shevy> six month pregnancy
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<Hanmac> wald0 i get my environment cinnamon from a nightly repository, so fu* with "old packages" ;D
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<centrx> soahccc, Many of the Debian-based distros are in fact based on Debian testing/unstable. They take testing/unstable and test it and polish it up and add their own tools and apps and release it
<soahccc> So when I google for images of XFCE I end up with all different ones... Is it more the theme than the underlying manager?
<shevy> soahccc the default one I have looks a bit like "lightweight gnome2"
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<shevy> soahccc, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Xfce3.jpg this one is a modified one, but it looks quite similar to what I use right now (though I have larger icons)
<soahccc> I think I first take a look if the hardware is even properly supported... it's an fairly old laptop
<shevy> should be
<shevy> xfce is rather light
<shevy> if fluxbox runs on your system speedily, xfce shouldn't be an issue
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<soahccc> light on drivers? :D
<shevy> on everything!
<shevy> it's more an enhanced-fluxbox WM than a DE really
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<shevy> god, konqueror is so awful
<wald0> centrx: there was a graph about lightness where enlightenment beated all the other ones, but i dont found it now
<soahccc> I can't help me but it looks a bit like old Mac OS
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<wald0> shevy: enlightenment faster than fluxbox :)
<benlieb> I'm changing an old app from 1.8 to 2.0. Some specs dealing with time are now failing. Has the Time.parse method changed since 1.8.6? Specifically the "flipping" of the month order in the following snippet worries me and makes me feel that Time.parse is unpredictable, and should be avoided: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8377003
<shevy> soahccc right, but gnome2 looks like old Mac OS as well. a friend who saw gnome2 for the first time thought it was mac
<shevy> wald0 nothing is faster than fluxbox! save for ratpoison perhaps. the startup is like less than 1 second, instantaneous!
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<centrx> wald0, No way
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<wald0> shevy: seriously, there was a graph comparing different WM and enlightenment was lighter :)
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<wald0> centrx: try it, in elive for example
<centrx> benlieb, A lot was changed in 1.9
<shevy> 1.9 of what?
<soahccc> shevy: When I think about it, it might be better for the old laptop :)
<benlieb> centrx: does it seem odd to you that in those two examples I provide, the month/day order is interpreted differently?
<centrx> shevy, Ruby. Welcome to #ruby
<havenwood> benlieb: 1.8 to 1.9 had many breaking changes, but 1.9-2.0 and 2.0-2.1 are painless
<shevy> ah yes
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<shevy> I thought he meant either xfce or fluxbox
<Hanmac> benlieb: 1.8.6 to 1.6.7 was a massive break ;P
<centrx> benlieb, My first impression is that it is treating the full date as a European-style date: day/month/year
<shevy> long live europe!!!
<benlieb> centrx: yes, but why not the first?
<soahccc> Sorry for taking the conversation off topic =) Thanks for the input
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<Hanmac> havenwood: 1.9-2.1 are "nearly" painless, there some pointy spikes, but nothing serious
<centrx> benlieb, I will see what I can find
<havenwood> Hanmac: true, flesh wounds could be incurred
<shevy> syck is removed in 2.x
<Nilium> The chance of you encountering issues between 1.9 and 2.1 are pretty low unless you relied on specific bugs in one existing.
<shevy> encoding was added so sure enough there are many issues
* Hanmac smells a "The Knights of the Coconut" joke from havenwood
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<benlieb> centrx: when you put the full year in the front, it flips back: https://gist.github.com/pixelterra/8377097
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<benlieb> it just makes me wary of using this, because if you'll forget what order causes what and it's no easy to eyeball it without consulting a chart of some kind.
<centrx> benlieb, Yes, that is expected
<centrx> benlieb, I would recommend ALWAYS using the standard format like 2012-05-31
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<Mon_Ouie> Time.parse tries to guess the format of the input, that's why those things happen
<centrx> That will always be treated correctly
<Mon_Ouie> Use strptime to parse a known time format
<Hanmac> benlieb: use Time.strptime
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<shevy> Hanmac what time format do you use? yyyy-mm-dd ?
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<benlieb> centrx: the odd thing is that the specs were passing years ago, and now they are not. I think that the Time.parse has changed. Oh well. It's a good time to adopt some better habits in this area: https://gist.github.com/pixelterra/8377118
<Hanmac> shevy hm where do you ask? in my documentations or where?
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<shevy> Hanmac everywhere!
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<Hanmac> shevy: for sample in the rwx files they are documented with "Created on: dd.mm.yyyy" because that is the format of my current location
<shevy> \o/
<dachi_> anybody know scala?
<centrx> benlieb, It looks like this behavior was indeed changed in Ruby 1.9
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<shevy> scala is that fancy java thing that wants to be like ruby and fails, isn't it?
<dachi_> yes
<dachi_> i want this in scala
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<dachi_> i argue with some guy about speeds and i need scala version
<benlieb> looks like strptime is the smartest way to go, no guess work
<centrx> Yes
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<shevy> dachi_ well no idea how they do that
<shevy> probably they have a way but it's more verbose and less documented!
<dachi_> ok thanks
<shevy> who knows scala!
<shevy> dachi_ you gotta get people to respond
<centrx> dachi_, Did you try the #scala channel?
<dachi_> i joined their channel and asked there but
<dachi_> dachi_: Hello! if anyone has like 3-4 minutes, could you please write Scala version of this script in ruby? http://dachi.co/bench_rb.html I am comparing speeds and I'd be very grateful
<dachi_> [01:24am] OlegYch: won't
<dachi_> :|
<centrx> Yeah you might have to "learn" how to program in scala
<shevy> guys
<shevy> a question...
<shevy> looks as if we have three ways to test for the existance of a directory
<centrx> Also if it is not written by an expert then, then the benchmark may not be comparable
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<shevy> File.directory? Dir.exist? File.exist?
<shevy> which one should I use though?
<centrx> Dir.exist? sounds right
<dachi_> i think so
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<shevy> ok
<shevy> I looked at old code and saw I used File.exist? which puzzled me
<Hanmac> shevy some very old code did use FileTest.directory?
<centrx> It does the same thing if the directory does not exist
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<shevy> omg FileTest
<shevy> who invented this atrocity onto the eyes of the general ruby hacker
<centrx> It looks like they all run the same C code
<centrx> except File.directory? and Dir.exist? also check if the file is in fact a directory, not only that it exists
<soahccc> isn't that design? thousand way to do the same :)
<Hanmac> centrx: they does and even "ri FileTest.directory?" does show "File.directory?"
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<shevy> so I still don't know how I feel about this
<shevy> def foo; puts 'hi from foo'; end
<apeiros> then feel indifferent about it?
<shevy> and another file to read in that file, into a module, like so: module Bla; class_eval(File.read(file), file) end
<shevy> I dunno
<shevy> it's not... elegant :\
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<centrx> Seems horrible
<shevy> hehe
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<shevy> centrx but it works! so I don't know what to do :(
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<shevy> usefulness vs. elegance
<shevy> what will win
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<zenguy_pc> hi, is there an equivalent function to python -m HttpSimpleServer on ruby with gems perhaps?
<shevy> what is this doing
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<zenguy_pc> it opens a port 8080 basic file server
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<shevy> hmm I think you can do this with webrick
<shevy> WEBrick::HTTPServer.new(:Port => 8080)
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<shevy> zenguy_pc I think you can do this in a ruby-oneliner from the commandline too
<zenguy_pc> ok
<zenguy_pc> thanks!
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<shevy> I dont remember the syntax, it's been years since I last wrote a ruby oneliner from the commandline
<shevy> something like -e to eval code enclosed in strings...
<shevy> ruby -e 'puts "hi there"'
<shevy> that works haha
<shevy> ruby -r 'webrick' -e 'WEBrick::HTTPServer.new(:Port => 8080)'
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> Address already in use
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<centrx> Must be a virus
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<benlieb> what is the difference between %w[ ] and %W[ ] ?
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<Hanmac> benlieb: %w = '' and %W = ""
<benlieb> centrx: tnx, figured %w[ ] wouldn't return much, but I was wrong!
<benlieb> in google search that is
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<ddd> benlieb %w = single quoted. %W double quoted
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<ddd> helps to not show up to the party too late. didn't see hanmac andswered
<ddd> err answered even
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<michele> hi there
<shevy> hi michele
<wald0> what means ||= ?
<ddd> if val set, use it, if not, set it
<MrZYX> foo ||= bar is foo || foo = bar
<wald0> oh, good :)
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<michele> I have this strange problem with ruby-prof. http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vvuCZfZy any clues?
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<wald0> so how i can use ||= for "if variable exist, increment +1, otherwise set it to 1 ?
<Hanmac> michele: what does "gem env" and "ruby -v" shows ?
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<centrx> wald0, If you are looking for a one-liner, you can do: i = (i || 0) + 1
<MrZYX> wald0: never came across a case where that made sense, can't you just initialize it? also check .inject(:+) for building sums and .count for counting things
<centrx> wald0, In general I would separate the logic
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<alexherbo2> is there a way to dynamically add an instance variable to a class like this?
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<MrZYX> alexherbo2: just the instance variable? because your code uses methods. Also why do you want that? sure you don't want a Hash or an OpenStruct?
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<Hanmac> michele: "gem env" => "  - RUBY EXECUTABLE: /usr/bin/ruby1.9.1" "ruby -v" => "ruby 2.1.0p0" see the problem there?
<michele> Hanmac: so I should change gem ruby executable
<Hanmac> alexherbo2: uae attr_accessor
<apeiros> yeah, who puts executables in /usr/bin…
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<Hanmac> michele: something wend wrong after you install ruby (how did you do that?)
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<michele> Hanmac: i installed ruby21, then update-alternatives --config ruby
<michele> selected ruby2.1
<michele> (before that, I was using ruby1.9.3 as stated on gem env)
<Hanmac> you need "update-alternatives --config gem" ... (yeah debian need to fix that :/ )
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<michele> woah Hanmac
<michele> now I have this problem: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CMj21QxC
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<michele> apt-get install ruby2.1-dev
<michele> let's try.
<Hanmac> yeah thats the solution
<michele> worked :)
<michele> next question: now I want to migrate all my gemset from gem 1.9.1 to 2.1
<michele> is that possible?
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<Hanmac> not without rvm ... but you can do "gem1.9.1 list" to get the old gems ... (do you need to migrade from hand ... )
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<MrZYX> well you sure could do some | grep | cut | xargs gem install stuff
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<michele> yep
<michele> cat /tmp/gem.txt | xargs gem install
<michele> hehe :)
<michele> thanks for the support guys
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<michele> I guess that afterwards I can uninstall all the gems from 1.9.3
<michele> since they're two different worlds for debian
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<alexherbo2> MrZYX: http://bpaste.net/show/167137
<shevy> wald0 do you know like when you have a day, where something shitty happens
<shevy> and you try to recover from it
<alexherbo2> MrZYX: i would be able to do: tree = Tree::Node.new; tree.foo = 'bar' instead of tree.value = { 'foo' => 'bar' }
<shevy> and it works a bit... but then suddenly something else shitty happens
<shevy> and it continues like that and does not want to seem to stop
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<MrZYX> alexherbo2: so subclass OpenStruct or if you'd be okay with node = Node.new; node["foo"] = "bar"; node["foo"] I'd suggest do keep an internal Hash and delegate #[] and #[]= to it
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<shevy> class vs. module still confuses me
<shevy> no wait
<shevy> subclassing vs. using-modules
<alexherbo2> MrZYX: i like your solution
<alexherbo2> thanks
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<Fractional> Hello.
<Fractional> Could anyone lend a helping hand regarding multidimensional arrays?
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<tt1187> quick question; "You wanted to abstract the first name/last name requirement and only allow full
<tt1187> names to be set or retrieved." --- what does abstract mean in this context? Hide?
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<shevy> no idea
<shevy> perhaps the author was not sure what he wanted
<MrZYX> Fractional: don't ask to ask, just ask
<shevy> tt1187 perhaps you tried to use something in a way you should not have used it
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<tt1187> shevy, i'm going over Encapsulation if that helps
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<tt1187> but thanks anyways
<alexherbo2> MrZYX: do you suggest me to subclass OpenStruct or keep an internal Hash and delegate to #[] and #[]= to it ?
<_mtr> tt1187: @first_name, @last_name are not accessible, but @full_name ( = @first_name + @last_name) is?
<MrZYX> alexherbo2: I'd use the hash solution
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<alexherbo2> which is the rationale ?
<Fractional> Could use some help: https://gist.github.com/Freddan962/a26ab1ef4fee812108f3 (Error and source inside ~40 lines)
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<MrZYX> alexherbo2: OpenStruct works through overriding method_missing, which i try to avoid doing when it's not giving me a much neater solution than another approach
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<MrZYX> also you then can't have a value with the same key than any of your existing methods
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<MrZYX> so there's just less that can go wrong with delegating #[]/#[]=
<apeiros> Fractional: sounds like you're out of bounds, even though your code looks like it shouldn't
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<apeiros> ah
<Fractional> apeiros, that is exactly what I thought. I've no idea how to solve it though.
<apeiros> you have @map and @mapData
<apeiros> their size differs
<shevy> Fractional you need to simplify
<Fractional> apeiros: I am so sorry. God, I feel stupid.
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<shevy> File.open(mapName, "r").each_line do |line|
<shevy> @mapData << line
<Fractional> apeiros, thanks for helping me. A simply overlook.
<shevy> if you only copy into that @ivar
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<shevy> then just use File.readlines()
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<apeiros> Fractional: `for i in 0..@mapData.size-1` --> @mapData.size.times do |i|
<shevy> in ruby it helps to try to stay as simple as possible all the time
<apeiros> also, ruby convention is @map_data
<apeiros> and load_map instead of loadMap
<Fractional> apeiros, thanks, will update! :)
<apeiros> also what shevy said wrt .readlines :)
<MrZYX> Fractional: and indent with two spaces ;P
<centrx> @map_data.each or @map_data.each_with_index or @map_data.map
<Fractional> apeiros, I still can't add a instance of the class Tile into the multidimensional map array.
<Fractional> MrZyx: No more tabs? :P
<shevy> Fractional a big advantage of apeiros' code is that .times is much easier for counting than for/in loop
<shevy> where is class Tile
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<Fractional> Shevy: Let me update the code with the changes everyone suggested and I'll post the full one :)
<Hanmac> shevy: File.open(mapName, "r").each_line #=> File.foreach(mapName)
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<shevy> Fractional there are practical considerations for tab vs. space. I stopped using tabs when I started to indent and align comment in code.
<MrZYX> Hanmac: we're already past that and at File.readlines ;)
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<shevy> 2 space vs. 4 space in ruby is nicer for 2 spaces because ruby is already very terse, if you have less than 80 lines of code per line, you can fill in more content at no real extra cost if you remain succinct
<shevy> and if it is still convoluted for you, you can always break it into newlines
<shevy> class Foo
<shevy> def bla
<shevy> vs
<shevy> class Foo
<shevy> def bla
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<shevy> of course people who use tabs don't have this problem
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<shevy> Hanmac, apeiros do you use tabs in .rb files by the way?
<Fractional> Haha, it is hard for me to abandone my old methods.
<apeiros> shevy: no. I prefer tabs, but convention has precedence.
<Hanmac> shevy hm for some projects i did it
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<shevy> Hanmac and in rwx?
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<shevy> Fractional you see there is a big division in tabs vs. spaces
<shevy> Fractional we are on opposing sides here :(
<Hanmac> hm i need to look ... the cpp files have tabs ... (because spaces would drive me crazy how often i rewrite everything) for the samples ... i think its currently mixed ... i need to fix that later
<soahccc> I hate it that gist represent a tab with 8 spaces :(
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<shevy> soahccc hehe
<Fractional> shevy: I am trying to join your side! :D
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<shevy> I actually liked the old pastie.org the most, gist is not as beautiful... but much better than pastebin ... and about equal with the new pastie.org these days
<shevy> Fractional \o/
<shevy> Hanmac yah, I only mean ruby files
<soahccc> shevy: huh? o.O
<centrx> Everyone knows indentation is bad
<shevy> C++ is ugly so it's fine that you use tabs
<soahccc> shevy: What is pastie's magic feature I've missed?
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<shevy> soahccc oh what I mean is, I didn't even look well into gist because I dont like the colours
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<shevy> soahccc the colours! the visual beauty and elegance!
<soahccc> shevy: colors! :D
<shevy> I can't compare right now because I am on konqueror, and konqueror is a horrible piece of ****
<shevy> but it beats lynx hands down
<soahccc> gist = git repo = your env if you want
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<shevy> yeah it's pretty awful
<soahccc> shevy: gem in a gist
<shevy> soahccc http://pastie.org/8624883 is nicer, but it used to be even nicer 3 years ago :(
<Fractional> People! I've adapted to your changes but I still get the same error.
<shevy> I hate it when people make changes and the new outcome is shittier than the earlier version
<shevy> ugh gosu
<soahccc> shevy: You're referring to the colors?
<shevy> Fractional, no need for the $
<shevy> soahccc no, the overall beauty :)
<Fractional> Shevy: I want them global later in the program when I must access width and height of the window for some algorithms.
<shevy> the font! the way it is drawn and stares right at you! the softly nudged font pressed into the site layout
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<shevy> but $ are leaky
<shevy> you can define them everywhere
<MrZYX> Fractional: @map = [[0, 0], [0, 0]] data.txts contents don't match your assumptions here
<shevy> Fractional and you forgot File.readlines !
<Fractional> MrZyx data.txt consists of 3 rows containing 25 fixnums each :P
<apeiros> yikes, globals
<MrZYX> Fractional: see
<Fractional> 4 rows*
<MrZYX> so you get four strings of some length > 25 (probably > 48, given separators)
<Fractional> I'll add raw textfile data to the gist.
<MrZYX> with @map = [[0, 0], [0, 0]] you already assume it's two lines only
<Fractional> Gist updated. Going to change the readlines now.
<shevy> guys
<shevy> no sorry
<apeiros> shevy: same method
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<shevy> I meant to say... why module_eval is shown as example
<shevy> apeiros hmmm I see
<MrZYX> Fractional: also 01010101020101001010101 is 23 digits
<shevy> oh interesting, so I dont have to put the thing that is evaled inside of the module actually
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<soahccc> shevy: yeah, not enough git for me :) If you're just looking at a short snippet it doesn't matter but if the person provided good pastes you can clone it straight away, edit it locally in your favorite environment and push it as new gist...
<Fractional> The output of the array was 25 which should be 25 numbers.
<shevy> soahccc you mean from the commandline?
<Fractional> of the array size at [0], [1], [2] and [3]
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<shevy> can someone explain the meaning:
<shevy> class_eval(string [, filename [, lineno]]) ? obj
<shevy> how many arguments is that?
<soahccc> shevy: cloning or?
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<soahccc> 1,2 or 3 by the look
<shevy> soahccc yah, not sure what you mean with cloning ... you mean like wget?
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<shevy> soahccc hmmmm
<soahccc> shevy: like it's a git repository
<shevy> how do you see 3
<shevy> why is it not:
<Fractional> MrZYX: Got any ideas?
<shevy> class_eval(string, filename, lineno) ? obj
<soahccc> shevy: [] usually means optional
<centrx> shevy, the brackets mean the parameters are optional
<shevy> I see
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<shevy> "The optional filename and lineno parameters set the text for error messages."
<yebyen> I am trying to use capybara to log into mint.com and download the transaction CSV
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<yebyen> it works, except I have to add sleep events because I don't know how to use capybara correctly...
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<yebyen> or I do know, but a CSV page with no doctype has no dom elements to find and wait for
<MrZYX> Fractional: what about something like http://paste.mrzyx.de/p220f6a9b/ ?
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<Fractional> MrZYX: Didn't even know you could access them by GameWindow::WIDTH, awesome!
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<Fractional> MrZYX: Is it preferred to name ruby functions by load_Map instead of loadMap?
<apeiros> load_map actually
<apeiros> yes
<MrZYX> neither, load_map is prefered
<Fractional> Of course :P
<_mtr> Fractional: Map.load() is probably the preferred name in your case
<apeiros> +1
<MrZYX> good point
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<Fractional> So you can name functions to Map.load ?
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<_mtr> load
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<_mtr> Called with Map.load()
<_mtr> Map.load_map, etc. is redundant
<Fractional> Ah, alright
<Fractional> Hope you don't mind the silly questions. I'm moving from C++ to Ruby.
<apeiros> there are only a couple of silly questions
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<apeiros> and don't worry, you'll quickly be told if you ask one of these ;-)
<shevy> Fractional this works by doing def self.bla stuff, like: class Map; def self.load(); end; end <--- now you can use Map.load()
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<Fractional> shevy: Can I call Map.load() from within the map class or will it go by load()?
<_mtr> self.load()
<apeiros> within class methods, plain `load` is sufficient
<shevy> Fractional it is often more logical to do so. Map.load() could mean "Hey I wanna load a map". It would be easier to understand than doing: Map.new.load() "I wanna load a map but I kinda wanna first load an object" and people may then ask "why do you need an object here... why not just omit the .new ... "
<apeiros> within instance methods, either self.class.load, or explicitly Map.load
<shevy> hey _mtr you read like a pointer in C :>
<Fractional> Thanks guys! :)
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<Fractional> class Map; def load(map_name); self.load("Europe"); ?
<Hanmac> Fractional: ... you can use both, def load;end and def self.load;end ... when you want to change the map object inplace instead of making a new one
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<Fractional> Sorry Hanmac I don't think I quite understand what you mean.
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<Hanmac> Map.load() #=> returns a new map object
<Hanmac> map = Map.new; map.load() #=> changes "map" object itself
<Hanmac> may be nice when you also have a map.save method
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<Fractional> Oh right :)
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