apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p0: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p392) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<Eiam> and when dealing in hashs that end up as json, :cert and "cert" may as well be the same thing
<Eiam> but I understand :cert.object_id != "cert".object_id
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<MrZYX> "cert".object_id != "cert".object_id even, but :cert.object_id == :cert.object_id
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<Eiam> :blah.to_json == "blah".to_json ? "yup" : "nope"
<Eiam> => "yup"
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<MrZYX> sure, to_json is to_s.to_json
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<Eiam> and the inclusion of { } vs no {} in that particular method is irrelevant
<Eiam> because both treat the object as a hash
<UberNerdGirl> Spooner: i thought of you when I saw that Code Spooning video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<UberNerdGirl> LMAO!
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<UberNerdGirl> that's what we do online!
<Eiam> even though it appears to be multple values being submitted
<UberNerdGirl> lmao
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<Spooner> UberNerdGirl, Yeah, so did I.
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<shevy> MrZYX why hard? is the new syntax mandatory now?
<MrZYX> no, but keyword arguments use the same one
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<MrZYX> so if you prefer the old one you need to care if the method you call uses and options hash or keyword arguments
<MrZYX> and you need to update the call if you change that fact
<MrZYX> which you don't need to if you just use the new hash syntax
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<Eiam> and by new you mean this awful method( blah: thing)
<Eiam> so you could do blah: :blah2
<breakingthings> yes
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* Eiam sighs
<Eiam> thats a spacebar away from Some::Scope
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<MrZYX> I actually enjoy that syntax :P
<MrZYX> three characters less to type
<breakingthings> Ruby World Problems: Complaining about extremely trivial syntax changes
<breakingthings> PHP World Problems: WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT OBJECTS ARE
<breakingthings> just remember that.
<Eiam> breakingthings: its not really that trivial, given there are many different rules behind how and what way things get treated
<Eiam> its very frustrating to me after 1.5 years still of writing ruby
<Eiam> whenever I come across soeone who decided to contruct hashes in yet *another* way
<breakingthings> Maybe you should look into python. :)
<banisterfiend> Eiam: imagine if you had to type: attr_accessor(:x, :y)
<Eiam> or people who rely on various idioms like "last value is okay as a hash without {}" and other things
<banisterfiend> Eiam: or: loop() { puts "do it again"! }
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* UberNerdGirl really wants to try some absinthe
<Eiam> banisterfiend: I generally have a rule for my ruby which is if I'm not chaining the method I will use ()
<banisterfiend> Eiam: lack of parenthesis is great for building DSLs
<UberNerdGirl> :( apologies, wrong room :(
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<Eiam> because I want to be clear that I'm callin a method
<banisterfiend> Eiam: i dont believe you use that in attr_accessor
<Eiam> and not accessing an attribute
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<banisterfiend> and if you do, then you write very, very unidiomatic ruby codeb
<banisterfiend> code*
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<Eiam> banisterfiend: I have to actually refrain from writing :attr_accessor(:a,:b)
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<banisterfiend> ?
<Eiam> look when you declare a method, def a(yo=something,b,d) you use parans still
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<Eiam> but when you call :attr_accessor its okay to eliminate them?
<Eiam> the whole lack of consistency is maddening
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<breakingthings> lol
<breakingthings> again
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<breakingthings> maybe you need to go to python
<havenwood> Eiam: Then be consistent; don't use parens unless it breaks the interpreter.
<mboro> is it possible to include a Rakefile inside another?
<breakingthings> there is consistency
<Eiam> havenwood: or always use parens =)
<breakingthings> it's just not one-way-to-rule-them-all
<banisterfiend> Eiam: you dont have to use () when you define a method
<breakingthings> Eiam: sounds like "we should always use if's because switches are too different of a syntax"
<banisterfiend> Eiam: and maybe people dont
<Eiam> banisterfiend: yeah cause def a yo-something,b,d
<banisterfiend> many*
<havenwood> Eiam: Always using parens is against convention and idiom.
<Eiam> reads SO much better
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<julian-delphiki> not so.
<banisterfiend> Eiam: def my_method a, b
<julian-delphiki> no way.
<banisterfiend> Eiam: doesn't read too badly
<Eiam> havenwood: I guess its a great thing ruby doesn't enforce shit so I can do whatever I want?
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<rking> I hear kwargs require parens. =(
<Eiam> if ruby wants to care about convention and idiom it should enforce it
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<havenwood> rking: yeah, i was kinda initially disappointed about that
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<rking> "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of ..."
<Eiam> banisterfiend: def my_method a,b=opts,c=test,d looks pretty shitty to me
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<rking> havenwood: Do you know if it's ever actually ambiguous? Seems to me the trailing comma clears it up
<banisterfiend> Eiam: because you're not used to it? it doesn't bug me that much, but nonetheless my style is to use parentheses when i define methods
<breakingthings> Eiam: but if you get your bioform endpoint all rashed up and burning over these things, perhaps you ought to look at a language that does enforce them the way you want
<banisterfiend> Eiam: but not to use it when i'm invoking DSL-style methods
<Eiam> banisterfiend: I think it allows the intent to be lost more easily
<banisterfiend> Eiam: loop() { } and attr_accessor() look ugly
<Eiam> banisterfiend: () clearly denote intent
<Eiam> I'm callin a method with these parameters
<breakingthings> def my_method a, b, c=opts, d=test
<julian-delphiki> but if you've written ruby you know that without the () its still fine
<breakingthings> and better yet, let's slap on some syntax highlighting
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<banisterfiend> Eiam: what's ambiguous exactly? if you pass a parameter to something you're *always* invoking a method
<banisterfiend> otherwise it's a local
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<banisterfiend> or a method with no parameters ;)
<Eiam> statements don't have terminators like ;
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<julian-delphiki> they can though
<Eiam> is this a continuation of a statement or soething new
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<breakingthings> this guy… this guy needs to go to python
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<breakingthings> just go
<Eiam> right, which makes it all the worse ?
<banisterfiend> Eiam: neither does python?
<banisterfiend> Eiam: or a tonne of other languages
<julian-delphiki> mby he just needs to write some C
<breakingthings> oh god no he'll annoy the pythonistas too
<banisterfiend> it's not a big deal, it's clean, it's nice
<breakingthings> send him to javascr-NO IT'S EVERYWHERE!
<Eiam> banisterfiend: yeah, I'm not sure I ever said that I think python does something better here so..
<Eiam> not sure where that came from
<breakingthings> Eiam will never find peace in this colonless world!
* breakingthings runs off in a panick
<Eiam> banisterfiend: I never brought python into this discussion so whatever ;)
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<julian-delphiki> Eiam, have you ever used method missing?
<julian-delphiki> just wondering
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: I had it in some code once awhile ago but decided against using it & pulled it back out
<banisterfiend> Eiam: i'm just saying it's more or less standard for dynamic langauges not to require the ';'
<julian-delphiki> standarddddd
<banisterfiend> Eiam: i dont see any confusion or ambiguity in 99.999% of cases in leaving it off, either
<Eiam> breakingthings: omitting ; in javascript is a silly game to play so..
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<breakingthings> Eiam: it is but it's still possible
<Eiam> browser is putting it in there for you, so clearly its required
<breakingthings> it's not required
<Eiam> its foolish
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<breakingthings> not from a author's standpoint
<breakingthings> automatic colon insertion exists for a reason
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<Eiam> yeah cause JS programmers are moronic
<breakingthings> just go look at bootstrap
<julian-delphiki> yep
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<julian-delphiki> no ; in bootstrap
<MrZYX> so, CoffeeScript ftw? :P
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: sure, its become a rather headed topic now days with plenty of major examples on both sides of hte fence
<breakingthings> guy intentionally did it that way to try it out and enjoys the fruits of pissing people off with it
<banisterfiend> Eiam: can you show me a common example where leaving off ; is confusing/ambiguous?
<Eiam> the point still remains, there are bugs you can run into if you don't understand automatic ; insertin, and if you just put the f'ing ; in, you'll NEVER hit those bugs
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<Eiam> so, why not just put it in?
<breakingthings> because
<breakingthings> it looks ugly
<Eiam> =0
<julian-delphiki> I like pretty code.
<banisterfiend> Eiam: can you show me a non-contrived example in Ruby where leaving off ';' leads to confusion/ambiguity?
<Eiam> banisterfiend: I was referring to javascript about ;
<banisterfiend> Eiam: but you mentioned lack of ';' before you talked about javascript iirc
<Eiam> banisterfiend: in ruby clearly ; is designed to do multiple statements per line, not to terminate statements
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<breakingthings> it does terminate statements
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<julian-delphiki> couldnt the same be said of JS
<breakingthings> it's the -exact- same thing.
<havenwood> Eiam: Implicit line termination is implicit line termination.
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: no, because ommitting it in particular cases in otherwise legit javascript will get you a bug
<Eiam> doing the same in ruby will not
<breakingthings> Eiam: Generally, it doesn't in longform.
<breakingthings> The major issues with it occur when minifying.
<breakingthings> Usually due to an error with semicolon insertion with minifierss.
<julian-delphiki> ^
<havenwood> minifyer's problem!
<breakingthings> Spoiler: it's all subjective shit, bud.
<breakingthings> Do it how you want and suck it up or find a language that lets ya. Don't get pissy over it, it'll shorten your lifespan.
<julian-delphiki> and rubyists like their idiomatic code
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<Eiam> julian-delphiki: except when their are competing idioms that not every agrees on
<Eiam> sure most people agree :attr_accessor :blah
<Eiam> is fine
<julian-delphiki> i'd say most rubyists do
<Eiam> but not everyone is consistent with how they do hashes for example, thats fairly split
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<breakingthings> A common idiom is to leave out semicolons and parenthesis
<Eiam> and then some patterns interfering with named paramters is just another ha
<julian-delphiki> I just use whatever feels right for making my hash
<breakingthings> But ruby intends for this to be possible
<julian-delphiki> to be honest
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<Eiam> julian-delphiki: ultimately, its important for the program, and reader to understand what the object is
<Eiam> so why would you want to introduce ambiguity
<Eiam> hmm is this a named parameter or a magic hash
<breakingthings> Eiam: because the ambiguity often isn't truly ambiguity
<julian-delphiki> ^
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<breakingthings> Often, it's ambiguity of the syntax that allows for an expressive interpretation of it's purpose
<Eiam> its purpose doesn't really matter if you are trying to isolate & fix a bug
<julian-delphiki> often in ruby it doesn't matter if you have () or not, since you can often read ruby as a sentance
<Eiam> what matters is what its doing
<breakingthings> Eiam: but it doesn't matter.
<banisterfiend> Eiam: the named parameter vs magic hash is only an issue in 2.0+
<Eiam> and if reading the code doesn't tell you that immediately without having to mental map through various layers of magic, what good is it
<breakingthings> Both of those are interpretations of ways to accomplish a thing
<Eiam> banisterfiend: and? still an issue
<banisterfiend> Eiam: and i haven't played with it enough in 2.0 to know whether it's actually a problem, my guess is it's not
<julian-delphiki> and I doubt 2.0 is used in prod much yet
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<breakingthings> That 'thing' is generally easily deciphered
<julian-delphiki> Eiam, how do you think people should make their hashes
<breakingthings> but for all that's holy there's 20+ different ways to perform a for loop from 1 to 10
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: { :blah => thing }
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<breakingthings> Eiam: why not {blah: thing}
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<Eiam> breakingthings: because now I have to learn that :blah and blah: are the same thing, but only when inside a hash?
<banisterfiend> Eiam: also, you would read the documentation to the method before you try to use it
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<julian-delphiki> i usually use => but : is one less char and is more json like
<banisterfiend> Eiam: and it would *tell* you which to use
<havenwood> julian-delphiki: I've seen and use 2.0.0 in production. Really a stable release. :)
<breakingthings> Eiam: :blah and blah: are both symbols
<banisterfiend> Eiam: i never use methods until i know how to use them, what about you?
<Eiam> banisterfiend: not everyone has the luxory of getting documentation for all the code they work with
<breakingthings> besides
<breakingthings> :blah => thing only exists because backwards compat
<julian-delphiki> havenwood, i'm just saying that most companies are slow moving ;)
<breakingthings> { blah: thing } was added because it is the new intended method
<havenwood> julian-delphiki: true... some are still on 1.8 /cringe
<breakingthings> { :blah => thing } exists merely for your convenience
<banisterfiend> Eiam: in the absolute worst case you view the source. If you dont have the docs or sourc,e how the heck are you going to know how to use it?
<banisterfiend> Eiam: either way you learn how to use it, it will tell you
<Eiam> anyway, ruby remains my favorite language thus far, despite the things about it that bother me. I do wish people would use ( ), and I do wish people would split their { braces onto different lines
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<Spooner> I would argue that { :blah => thing } won't go away since it is the same syntax as { "frog" => thing }
<breakingthings> Spooner: I don't think it ever will
<havenwood> julian-delphiki: I've been impressed with 2.0 adoption though, having heard stories of how long it took for people to move to 1.9. I guess 1.9.0 was *not* a stable release which probably slowed down subsequent adoption considerably.
* julian-delphiki works for a scala shop *shrug*
<breakingthings> but I do believe { frog: thing } is the preferable way.
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<Spooner> I avoided it until 1.9.2. Too few gems available.
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<breakingthings> not that it makes a huge deal, but working with symbols is faster.
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<julian-delphiki> oh god, i bet Eiam would hate 1.9 lambda syntax
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<Eiam> eh, -> is sufficiently different
<Spooner> In 2.1, the lambda syntax will be ♥some code♥. I'll stake my life on that!
<Eiam> it does't bother me much..
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<julian-delphiki> surprising
<havenwood> Spooner: haha, i like it
<Eiam> also I don't really use lambda's often
<Eiam> tend to use proc.new more
<Eiam> which is slightly different
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<breakingthings> Spooner: Stabby lambdas to lovey lambdas?
<breakingthings> Pshaw
<breakingthings> I'm gonna stick with 2.0
<breakingthings> I like my code violent
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: λ maybe ;)
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* julian-delphiki learned scheme in school, love that languagte
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<havenwood>
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: I'd probably be happiest in a strongly typed language that was interpreted and had consistent (probably enforced) conventions, so long as those conventions relied on readily available & visible things (this does not include whitespace & tabs)
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<julian-delphiki> not interpreted, but have you ever written any Ada?
<julian-delphiki> sounds like you'd love it
<Eiam> I think there are quite a few languages out there I'd jive better with if they were more widely accepted/utilized
<Eiam> it would be pretty tricky to convince the rest of the team they need to learn haskell cause hey guys I just deployed the latest tools in it
<Eiam> sorry suckers!
<banisterfiend> breakingthings: i wrote some evil code to allow invocation of lambdas with ()
<Eiam> ;)
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<breakingthings> banisterfiend: I hope you mean every single pair of parens
<banisterfiend> breakingthings: hehe, well, my_lambda.() requires params too ;)
<breakingthings> Eiam: time for you to come up with a business and run it with haskell then
<breakingthings> banisterfiend: ALL THE LAMBDAS!
<Eiam> julian-delphiki: I also don't have much against compiled languages, but not having a REPL drives me nuts
<Eiam> breakingthings: my available language choices don't upset me that much, contrary to opinion
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<Eiam> breakingthings: no doubt there are things about ruby that bother you, they just simply aren't the syntax idioms that bother me
<Eiam> and they aren't enough to make you not want to use the language, much the same for me.
<breakingthings> Eiam: even if I could think of one, it certainly doesn't bother me nearly to the extent it seems to bother you.
<breakingthings> I'm sure I'll run into something some day that I'm like
<breakingthings> that's stupid
<Eiam> breakingthings: logic & consistency are things I appreciate & seek, yes
<breakingthings> but I don't let it rile me up
<breakingthings> if I did that I would hate ruby
<Eiam> I'm not exactly fuming here just because I can have a discussion about the things that bother me ;)
<breakingthings> I know you're not blowing your lid or anything
<Spooner> Eiam, You can still get REPL for compiled languages.
<breakingthings> but I can tell there is quite a discontentment with it
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<Eiam> Spooner: yeah I've been looking at integrating Nu with Obj-c
<Eiam> or fscript
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<Eiam> but then i need something to create with objc =p unfortunately everyone wants web apps and little scripts to run, which it doesn't lend itself well towards and ruby does
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<fir_ed> How does TCPserver.accept work?
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<fir_ed> Is there a queue on accept?
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<Spooner> It blocks until there is a connection.
<Spooner> You have to accept again to get another connection.
<fir_ed> Spooner, I have a puts message right away an accept(Thread.start(server.accept)) and it is printing three times on one request
<fir_ed> does that mean ruby is spawning 3 threads?
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<Spooner> It creates a thread each time a connection is made.
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<Spooner> It will block on server.accept until there is a connection, then it will Thread.start(that_connection) - the code will be in a loop so it keeps spawning new threads.
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<Spooner> fir_ed, The second example here should be clear: http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/socket/rdoc/TCPServer.html
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<fir_ed> I'll look into it, thanks Spooner
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<Alysum> Hello - I have a quick question - how can I retrieve the puppet agent environment variable in ruby please ?
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<Spooner> Alysum, ENV['NAME_OF_ENV_VAR']
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<Alysum> thanks - I have a Puppet['environment'] however it doesnt use the agent environment - any idea what the var name is ?
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<julian-delphiki> Alysum, that's probably a question for the puppet folks
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<awkwords> so I have a file with multi machine host names in it.. Why can't I do this? Resolv.getaddress(File.open('filename').each)
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<breadtk> awkwords: because you can't get the address of an enumerable.
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<breadtk> File.open('filename').each do |address| Resolv.getaddress(address)
<breadtk> I think that should do it for you..
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<awkwords> breadtk: its doing something weird
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<breadtk> awkwords: can you be more verbose?
<breadtk> possibly post output on gist?
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<Paradox> anyone use alfred?
<Paradox> heh
<Paradox> i'm writing an imgur upload script
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<breadtk> awkwords: looking
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<macmartine> Any idea why doing "require 'curb_core'" (from https://github.com/taf2/curb) would cause this (ruby 1.9.3) https://gist.github.com/macmartine/e56f7a6ae11c690ebe48
<breadtk> awkwords: you need to .rewind the file :)
<awkwords> breadtk: ?
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<breadtk> awkwords: filename.rewind
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<breadtk> but that doesn't appear to be iteither
<breadtk> awkwords: What version of ruby are you using?
<awkwords> 1.8.7
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<awkwords> this is core and the methods im using have been around since then.. i just want to read each line in that file and pass it to Resolv.getaddress
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<awkwords> not sure what im doing wrong
<bnagy> you're using each and not doing anything with the block result
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<awkwords> it does something, cause the last line of my pastie shows me trying to list the file again and it returns nothing.
<bnagy> yeah that's because you're using an open filehandle, which is also a bad idea
<awkwords> doesnt a ruby block close when its done?
<awkwords> or since im opening it as file = File.open its open the whole time?
<bnagy> yes, but you're not using the block form
<bnagy> yep
<awkwords> would you mind using a file a showing me how to do this in a example?
<bigmac> do it in irb
<bnagy> File.open("blah").each.map {|l| Resolv.whatever l }
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<bnagy> actially with File I bet map works directly, although it's kind of "magic"
<bnagy> ... yeah it does
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<bnagy> basically it's almost never right to assign an IO handle to a variable
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<bnagy> I bet he has an outsourced content monitor assigned in Bangalore just for his account
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<awkwords> bnagy: http://pastie.org/6635125
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<bnagy> probably Resolv is lame and doesn't like \n
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<awkwords> so .chomp?
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<awkwords> >> File.open('testing2.txt').map { |x| Resolv.getaddress(x.chomp) }
<eval-in> awkwords => /tmp/execpad-40a28c3d223c/source-40a28c3d223c:2:in `initialize': No such file or directory - testing2.txt (Errno::ENOENT) ... (http://eval.in/13117)
<awkwords> => ["98.138.253.109", "173.194.37.32"]
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<awkwords> worked..
<awkwords> thanks
<bnagy> VICTORYISMINE
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<breadtk> bnagy / awkwords it was the \n huh?
<awkwords> yes
<breadtk> good going gents (or lass)
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<hemanth> gemlist to bundler gemfile, anyone?
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<macmartine> awkwords: I dig your moniker.
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<macmartine> hemanth: ?
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<awkwords> macmartine: thanks
<hemanth> macmartine, want to specify my dependencies in a Gemfile that bundler would use and the list of dependencies for me are from "gem list"
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<aedorn> Tribe vs Anaconda vs Ubiquity vs my 30 line Ruby script to install Gentoo! Nope, still can't compete with GUI installers
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<awkwords> anyone still around could take a look at this? having trouble writing output to a file
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<bean> its @output << thing
<bean> not the other way
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<awkwords> bean: thanks, how do i make it attach a line break to each one?
<bean> put a \n on the end
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<awkwords> @output+"\n" ?
<bean> yeah
<bean> well
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<bean> the resolve.get whatever +\n
<awkwords> ah
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<awkwords> pretty cool.. could you explain to me why i needed @output instead of output.. objects called inside of blocks have to be instance variables?
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<bean> no you dont need the @output
<bean> it could have just been output
<bean> if it was in a class
<bean> and you had the @output
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<bean> that would be an instance variable
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<bnagy> holy crap why does gist keep murdering my indenting :(
<bnagy> imho it would be more unixy to have it operate on ARGF so you could pipe stuff to it
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<bnagy> but that's a straight port of yours
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<bnagy> awkwords: also,if you chmod it u+x you can run it like a normal command, cause of the shebang at the top
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<Hanmac> bnagy i found this: "Under a 2005 law, children in an anthrax-vaccine study would be prohibited from seeking damages through the legal system. "
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<bnagy> Hanmac: ... which is relevant to what?
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<bnagy> what on earth are you talking about?
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<bnagy> well.. I can see what you're talking about, but why are you talking about it to me in particular?
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<Hanmac> because you are the recent active, and shevy is still sleeping or something like thart
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<hemanth> gemlist to bundler gemfile, anyone?
<hemanth> want to specify my dependencies in a Gemfile that bundler would use and the list of dependencies for me are from "gem list"
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<hemanth> Hanmac, ^^ ??
<Hanmac> hemanth did you try it at #bundler ?
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<hemanth> Hanmac, trying :)
<hemanth> gem list --local | python -c "import sys;import re;l=sys.stdin.readlines();x=['config.gem \"'+line[:-1][:line.index(' ')] + '\" , ' +line[:-1][line.index(' '):].replace('(',':version => \"').replace(')','')+'\"' for line in l];print '\n'.join(x)"
<hemanth> Hanmac, that being the closest :D
<apeiros_> config.gem? and… python? o0
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<hemanth> apeiros_, I was expecting this :D
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<Hanmac> what is the spacer GemFile needs?
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<Hanmac> hemanth do you need the gem version?
<Hanmac> and in yes, what is the spacer?¿
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<hemanth> Hanmac, I was to convert the gem list --local to GemFile that is apt for bundler, or atleast a gemspec so I can build a gem ....
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<Hanmac> hemanth: try this: puts [:each_default,:each_normal].flat_map {|sym| Gem::Specification.to_enum(sym).map{|spec| "gem \"#{spec.name}\", :version => \"#{spec.version}\""} }
<hemanth> Hanmac, sexy!
<apeiros_> Hanmac: and now in python
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<hemanth> apeiros_, lol plz
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<hemanth> Hanmac, bundler is better than building a gem is in't?
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<Hanmac> hm no i use rake for it
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<apeiros_> bundler is something entirely different from building a gem
* hemanth : even though was aware of Gem::Specification, it did not flash to me at this point :\
<hemanth> Hanmac, make for ruby :-)
<hemanth> apeiros_, i'm aware of bundler :)
<apeiros_> hemanth: you seem to be utterly confused about its purpose, though
<Hanmac> hm no, ruby was made for my future self :P
<hemanth> but gemlist to bunlder spec is something that is handy
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<hemanth> apeiros_, dep management!
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<apeiros_> kind of
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* Hanmac is agianst precompiled gems
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<hemanth> Hanmac, why? won't it be useful...say you are maintiaing 20 testbeds
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<BryanWB> is rubygems down? bundle install is hanging for me
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<Nom-> I've been running it frequently for the last 20 minutes, working fine for me
<Nom-> Although I'm getting an irritating error about Couldn't find rake
<Nom-> Something wrong with my cap recipe i'm assuming :(
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<Nom-> ruby 1.9.3p0 (2011-10-30 revision 33570) [x86_64-linux]
<Nom-> Hmm, how about let's not use the system ruby
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<Hanmac> hemanth: because my gem picks the system config and only uses wich is enabled
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<dpdawson> in a rails app... if ModelA has_one ModelB, does anyone know why calling modela.modelb.attribute would give me a different value (old value) than modelb.attribute in a after_update callback on modela?
<Hanmac> dpdawson #rubyonrails
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<dpdawson> Hanmac sorry about that
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<lewis> whats the difference between pp and p
<hemanth> prety print and inspect ?
* hemanth agress with Hanmac
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<hemanth> Hanmac, heh heh "Red Hatter here. We're on it. Should be fixed soon."
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<Hanmac> thats why i do not care, when the contentmafia "pirates" content from others, why should i dont do it too?
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<hemanth> Wish you luck :)
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<pseudonymous> If you have an array like so: arr=["1","2","3","4"] - then arr.map(&:to_i) applies to_i to each element which yields [1,2,3,4] - I get that part and can observe it in pry -- but what I don't get is the "&"-part -- in .map(&:to_i) - :to_i looks like a symbol of the method to apply but why the ampersand ?
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<pseudonymous> On second thought - the '&:to_i' is a stand-in for a block right ?
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<apeiros_> yes
<apeiros_> map(&some_proc)
<apeiros_> & tells ruby to treat the argument as a block
<apeiros_> the argument must be a Proc or respond to to_proc (which must return a Proc in turn)
<apeiros_> and Symbol has Symbol#to_proc
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<apeiros_> @ pseudonymous
<pseudonymous> apeiros_: I see. Wonderful explanation, btw :) thanks
<apeiros_> so map(&:to_i) works like map { |x| x.to_i } would (map { |x| x.__send__(:to_i) })
* Hanmac also uses &Klass.method(:symbol) .... like &File.method(:size)
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<Hanmac> and &object.method(:symbol) can be useful for callbacks too
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<hemanth> BPL -> Blocks Procs and lambdas
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<Stelian1> hello guys
<Stelian1> How can I read the payload for a request in ruby/rails?
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<Nom-> #rubyonrails
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<shevy> they infiltrate us again!!!
<Stelian1> oups, sorry
<Stelian1> new to the entire ruby/rails world :)
<Stelian1> will go away now
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<shevy> no stay
<shevy> dont go to the railsers
<shevy> they are evil
<hemanth> heh heh
<Stelian1> evil you say ...
<shevy> yeah
<hemanth> darkside
<Stelian1> I shall put their name to the test!
<Stelian1> seriously though, I imagine my question can be adapted to ruby alone
<Hanmac> ... when railsler are the dark side, what is my side? :P
<shevy> Stelian1 if ruby alone would have that ;)
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<Stelian1> heh :) clearly have to do more reading
<Stelian1> just playing around and I like it
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<shevy> rails is very very large, a huge ecosystem
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<shevy> soon it is larger than ruby in itself
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<shevy> because it is so large, they had to design bundler :D
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<VinceThePrince> hay guys I'm still having troubles with undefined method []. Since last time not everything was clear I have made a stackoverflow topic please have a look: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15519445/undefined-method-for-nilnilclass-in-ruby-on-rails-view
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<Sicp> there's something a little trivial that I've been battling with since last night
<bookies> greetings
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<Sicp> you see I have this parser, http://pastie.org/6636766 and I want to pass it (a,(b,(2)),(c))$
<marwinism> When I install rubygems it installs ruby 1.8, even tho I have 1.9.3 installed? Is RVM best practice? Or what is the best way of using rubygems and Ruby 1.9.3?
<Sicp> it should accept the input when the array has only '$' ; it accepts the input when it's ((((aaaa,,((((bbbb,,(((( etc.. because the multiples of each character make the array reach its destined point to be ready to accept the next character
<Sicp> so I have to manually "empty it out" in order for it to read the next character and empty itself out for the next character and so on; I want it to do that in and of itself, using a while loop or something, while (something is something).....or something, can't figure it out
<Hanmac> marwinism i guess you use ubuntu or debian right? ruby1.9.1 (with is 1.9.3) installs rubygems allready ... the rubygems deb package is only for 1.8 where rubygems was not part of ruby itselg
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<marwinism> Hanmac: spot on, ubuntu! Ah, so it's already bundled. that makes sense. and it works.. Thanks alot!
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<bookies> Hi ladies and guys!
<bookies> I am allowed to post a stack overflow link here for someone to checkout?
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<bookies> *am I
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<Hanmac> bookies: so you mean a link pointing to an stackoverflow question about ruby? (or is it rails?)
<bookies> yes
<bookies> ruby on rails
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<Hanmac> bookies: then this is your channel: #rubyonrails
<bookies> ok thank you Hanmac :)
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<marwinism> Hanmac: how is ruby for writing graphical applications? Does it has a framework for that like Shoes to python?
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<Hanmac> marwinism: ruby has shoes in different colours :P ruby has gtk or QT bindings too, but i prefer something like wxwidgets as backend https://github.com/Hanmac/rwx
<Sicp> nevermind, got it
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<marwinism> Hanmac: oh, sweet! Thanks. I'll have a look at your examples.
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<Sicp> loving this language
<Sicp> getting shit done while only 1st night
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<pseudonymous> Sicp: thinking the same thing :) I've found that I increasingly reach for ruby to replace everything I used to do in a variety of other languages
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<Johbe> I redirect stdout to a file by doing $stdout.reopen(logfile) how can I prevent it from trunkating the logfile everytime this is run?
<hoelzro> Johbe: specify the mode
<Johbe> I guess I should use 'a' somehow for append, but how? :)
<hoelzro> $stdout.reopen(logfile, 'a')
<hoelzro> that should work, I think
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<Johbe> I'll test, thanks.
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<Hanmac> i for sample never used a "+" mode
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<lupine> hmm. I'm looking for a one-liner - I'm taking a subset of elements from one array, based on the size of a second array. If the second array is empty, then the subset array should also be zero
<lupine> currently, it looks like: overlapping_discs = old_discs.size > 0 ? iscs[0..(old_discs.size - 1)] : []
<lupine> erm, discs, not iscs
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<lupine> ideally, I'd be getting rid of the if
<a_D> Hi
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<a_D> I have a question. I have a string with a value. I want that when that value will be more than 1 integer (more than 4294967296) store in two integer the value: 1 with the 32 bits high value and another with the 32 bits low value
<a_D> the question is how can I split the binary value ?
<lupine> String#unpack ?
<lupine> unpacking 64-bit numbers is a bit of a pain, but doable
<a_D> lupine: hi
<a_D> so I understad that the first step is convert the string recive into binary right ?
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<lupine> ("\xFF" * 8).unpack("Q") => [18446744073709551615]
<a_D> lupine let me check
<a_D> thank you
<shock_one> How do I get all possible combinations of multipliers for a given number? So, for example, for 60 I want to get (5,12), (3, 20), (2, 30), (2,2,15), (2,2,3,5) and so on. I think I should prime factorize the number first, but what's next? How to get the combinations of a different length?
<lupine> you could treat it as two 32-bit numbers instead, if that's the end you want
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<lupine> ("\xFF" * 8).unpack("VV") => [4294967295, 4294967295]
<lupine> do pay close attention to endianness, though
<a_D> yes thats what I want
<a_D> thank you so much
<lupine> that's little-endian. I forget what the big-endian version is, offhand
<a_D> thank you
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* Hanmac sings "one two three little endians" :P
<lupine> I'm not sure you can trust the I directive
<lupine> it may be different sizes on different interpreters
<a_D> ummm
<lupine> (and will probably also be little-endian, actually)
<a_D> ok I'm gonna investigate that
<a_D> thank you
<lupine> N is big-endian
<lupine> so pick N or V depending on what your protocol says you should use
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<Hanmac> and tomorrow we get: "middle-endian" "not-so-little-endian" "bigger-than-middle-but-little-than-big-endian-endian" :P .. (Bonus point at somone who knows the book where this kind of joke is from :P)
<lupine> we can always rename them "expensive-equipment-byte-order" and "cheap-equipment-byte-order"
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<Hanmac> lupine: and is "apple-byte-order" an synoym for "expensive-equipment-byte-order" ? :P
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<Hanmac> hm or is it more like "cheap-but-expensive-looking-equipment-byte-order" ? :D
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<lupine> eh, old apple equipment was relatively swanky
<lupine> they're little-endian these days though
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<a_D> lupine: finnaly I think the best option in my case is more simple
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* lupine gets to play with 64-bit numbers a lot in his nbd work
<lupine> it's a proper arse.
<a_D> first I check if the value is biggger than 4294967296 . In that case I do num.to_s(2)
<a_D> and then split that value, and pass the first 32 bits to int
<a_D> how do you see that solution ?
<lupine> you'd want larger-than-or-equal-to, surely ?
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<a_D> lupine the thing is that im trying to use the setfilepointer api function
<lupine> so you're starting off with a Ruby Fixnum and need to convert it?
<lupine> first thing to note is that it's signed, not unsigned
<a_D> is signed yes, but if I pass a 0
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<a_D> in the second parameter I'm getting a 64 bits number
<lupine> the point is, -1 is different to -4294967296
<a_D> lupine I recibe the number as a parameter (string) then I do a value.to_i
<a_D> the values are always positive in my case
<a_D> so I'm always using the 64 bits
<lupine> not if the value is +5 or so
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<a_D> if value is 5 I would give setfilepointer(h,5,0,0)
<a_D> I would set the high int to 0 instead of null
<lupine> if you wanted to be correct, lpDistanceToMoveHigh would need to be NULL, although it probably doesn't matter too much
<lupine> can't you just use seek?
<a_D> no :(
<a_D> that would be much easy I guess
<a_D> lupine: but don' worry for me is enough to check the value and if its greater than 4294967296
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<a_D> convert it to binary with to_s(2) and the split the values
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<a_D> I just check it and It seems to work
* lupine is so glad he gets to avoid windows most of the time
<lupine> although I do have some code that pokes the registry
<a_D> jajaja
<a_D> thank you so much lupine :D
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<a_D> lupine: still there ?
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<lessless> are there situations in which the inheritance is preferred over composition?
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<Xeago> lessless: in strict is-a situations
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<_JamieD_> Hi all, anyone know if it's possible to do the following in the ruby 1.9 hash syntax? Examples are state_machine code 1) transition all => :suspended and @) transition [:unverified, :pending] => :approved. I've not come across a way to do wither of these using 1.9 style hash syntax which is rather annoying as I'd rather stick to one style or the other and not have to switch depending on the way I'm writing a hash
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<_JamieD_> thats should be 2) rather than @)
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<lupine> a_D, yes
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<apeiros_> _JamieD_: 1.9 hash syntax is *only* for symbol keys. so no, you can't use it with array keys.
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<_JamieD_> apeiros_: I thought that was the case :(
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<mklappstuhl> testing something with minitest/capybara I have two things which are 99% identic (one url param is different)... How would I write these two tests without actually copying the code?
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<Spooner_> mklappstuhl, [url1, url2] each do |url| ...your test using url... end
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<Spooner_> You need to be using spec style tests rather than method tests for that to work correctly though.
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<teamon> test_url1; test_url("a"); end
<teamon> def test_url2; test_url("b"); end
<mklappstuhl> Spooner_: I do that. so basically [y,x].each{ it "does y" do ... end; it "does x" do ... end;} ?
<Spooner_> mklappstuhl, no: [y,x].each do |z| it "does #{z}" do ...use z... end; end
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<mklappstuhl> teamon: I also thought more into that direction but it would'nt work with spec style syntax
<mklappstuhl> Spooner_: doing that I only have one test case instead of two
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<Spooner_> mklappstuhl, Yes, but the each will run it twice.
<Spooner_> The whole point is that you don't want to repeat the code...
<teamon> spec syntax is just a syntax, seriously, don't be so affected by dsls
<teamon> plain old method are still good
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<mklappstuhl> teamon: I think so too more recently
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<teamon> explicit is always better than implicit
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<Spooner_> Yes, for teamon's example, you'd define test_url outside and call it from inside the #it. However, as you can see, I hope, my version gives a more meaningful message (in the #it) and is more easily extensible with more cases.
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<Spooner_> *more cases inside the iteration and more data being used to test.
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<teamon> looping in tests like this is already a bad idea
<teamon> like if you test
<teamon> a = 1
<teamon> b = a
<teamon> b.must_equal a
<teamon> is bad
<teamon> it should be
<teamon> b.must_equal 1
<Spooner_> mklappstuhl, [a,b,c,d,e].each do |x| it "wibbles #{x}" do ...use x... end; it "wobbled #{x}" do ...use x...end; it "wiffles #{x}"; end;end
<Spooner_> teamon, I am _not_ iterating inside any tests.
<Spooner_> I'm iterating to generate lots of individual tests.
<teamon> but you are generiting tests based on iteration
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<mklappstuhl> teamon: I think I'm doing something different then what you described
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<teamon> tests do not have to by DRY, really
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<Spooner_> teamon, No code _has_ to be DRY. However, I generated 15 tests with that above example and writing them manually wouldn't be more correct.
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<Spooner_> You still ensure they all work in exactly the same way.
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<teamon> well, ok, it all depends on case really
<mklappstuhl> the actual use: I have two types of booking forms with different layouts/controllers but the form itself and the usage flow is the same. what is actually rendered depends on a url parameter...
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<teamon> if you have 100 of key -> value pairs
<teamon> like input => required output
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<teamon> then sure, just loop through them
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<hemanth> my irb locale has changed :( it's looking like °:each_default,:each_normal§.flat_map
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<Spooner_> Or if you have 2 data items and 10 tests to run on each one. I didn't assume that the example was the full extent of the repetition that would be needed.
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<Hanmac> hemanth :P ... PS: if you ask: to_enum(sym) is needed because it was do dump to return an enumerator itself
<Hanmac> mist to late
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<Hanmac> hemanth :P ... PS: if you ask: to_enum(sym) is needed because it was do dump to return an enumerator itself .... and you may not need the :each_default anyway because they are always installed in ruby
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<hemanth> Hanmac oh! ok I was looking into https://github.com/rack/rack/pull/475
<Hanmac> hemanth: look at this: http://h3manth.com/
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<hemanth> Hanmac Binary!>
<hemanth> ?
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<Hanmac> yeah :P
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<hemanth> Hanmac now?
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<hemanth> you know what? If i have an odd number of edits on a post...my site spites binary :(
<hemanth> stuck with drupal :"(
<Hanmac> yeah its better now
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<hemanth> durpal to octopress may be soon.... Hanmac have you played with it?
<Hanmac> with both not :(
<hemanth> ok...
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<hemanth> you will <3 octopress for sure!
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<Hanmac> hemanth: i like octocat :P
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<hemanth> Hanmac heh heh that kithub 404 thinge
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<hemanth> ;)
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<hemanth> Hanmac random octodex wallpapers :D
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<hemanth> Hanmac nokogiri oneliner to get them all and set random wallpapers
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* hemanth pretty interesting http://vimeo.com/61976251
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<Hanmac> hemanth: Nokogiri(open("http://octodex.github.com/")).css("a.preview-image > img").map{|img|img["data-src"]}.sample
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<PaulePanter> Hi, you Rubyneers.
<PaulePanter> I have several assignments to do as follows.
<PaulePanter> :t1 => 't1',
<PaulePanter> :t2 => 't2',
<PaulePanter> :t3 => 't3',
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<PaulePanter> Which are numerated sequentially (at least in the beginning). Could I do that using a loop?
<Spooner_> PaulePanter, If that is literally the mapping, you can just use to_s...
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<apeiros_> PaulePanter: a) yes, b) what Spooner_ said faster than I already
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<Hanmac> PaulePanter: Hash[symlist.map{|sym|[sym,sym.to_s]}]
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<PaulePanter> Spooner_, apeiros_, Hanmac: Awesome. Thanks. Hopefully that will clean the code up a bit. Will report back later. Thanks again!
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<hemanth> Hanmac heh heh :) bingo
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<hemanth> Hanmac css selectors rocks!
<Xeago> their syntax is weird tho
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<Spooner_> How is using css to search in css more weird than xpath?
<Xeago> I think you actually search the dom tho
<Xeago> scratch that, I am stupid
<apeiros_> css is less capable than xpath
<apeiros_> you can only search in one direction on both axis
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<apeiros_> *axes
<Spooner_> One direction?
<Hanmac> hm yeah i could had used xpath too
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<apeiros_> there is no :parent() or :previousSibling() in plain css
<Xeago> apeiros_: there is kinda
<apeiros_> i.e. only "deeper" and "next"
<Xeago> you can select the parent of elements
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<Xeago> but its syntax is still in draft, already implemented in webkit tho
<apeiros_> Xeago: um, how? (plain css, nokogiri and co. allow adding custom css pseudo selectors)
<Xeago> have to look it up, but I attempted using it for my blog, but went to js because of awful support
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<apeiros_> last I checked not even css3 had such selectors…
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<finnomenon> I am trying to use wakeonlan
<finnomenon> wol = WakeOnLan.new
<finnomenon> wol.wake ("00:22:68:0a:36:67","192.168.120.255)
<finnomenon> ah
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<finnomenon> wake.rb:4: syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting ')' is what I get
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<finnomenon> (I added the missing ")
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<hoelzro> can do put a space between the method name and the opening paren?
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<tobiasvl> yes
<hoelzro> s/do/you/
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<hemanth> Hanmac on 2.0 NoMethodError: undefined method `sample' for Array!
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<Hanmac> ... works for me:P
<Hanmac> (but i have 2.1dev)
<hemanth> Hanmac http://h3manth.com/i/a7d8d28d01.png is what i see
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<Hanmac> hemanth are you sure you use 2.0? ...
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<hemanth> Hanmac ruby 2.0.0p0 (2013-02-24 revision 39474) [x86_64-darwin10.8.0] shall i report?
<Hanmac> hm o dont know ... maybe it was already fixed in trunk
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<Hanmac> hemanth why are you on rubyforge?
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<hemanth> Hanmac ya saw that, where else to report bugs
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<Hanmac> bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues
<Hanmac> hemanth did you build your 2.0 ruby itself didnt you?
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<hemanth> Hanmac yes I had, then I used rbenv
<Hanmac> hemanth: goto pry again and "p RUBY_VERSION"
<Hanmac> i am not sure that pry picks the right rub
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<hemanth> Hanmac holy moly! Bang on, it's picking "1.8.7"
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<banisterfiend> it's not pry picking it
<banisterfiend> it's your broken gem setup :)
<hemanth> will give it a fresh install again
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<banisterfiend> hemanth: i think your gem paths are screwey
<banisterfiend> hemanth: do you have zsh ?
<banisterfiend> and any zsh plugins installed?
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<hemanth> brandon|work, nah bash
<banisterfiend> i had an issue where zsh plugins were messing with the path and putting the system ruby at the front
<hemanth> bash_it install for bash
<hemanth> bash_it is installed for bash
<tymat> type
<tymat> which ruby
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<tymat> on bash prompt
<hemanth> rbenv
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<hemanth> /Users/hemanth/.rbenv/shims/ruby
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<hemanth> ["/Users/hemanth/.gem/ruby/2.0.0", "/Users/hemanth/.rbenv/versions/2.0.0-p0/lib/ruby/gems/2.0.0"] <- Gem.path
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<hemanth> tymat, banisterfiend meow?
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<hemanth> /System/Library/Frameworks/Ruby.framework/Versions/Current/usr/bin/ruby -v is 1.8.7
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<amaya_the> :)
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<amaya_the> :Hanmac , hello!
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<Hanmac> huch, i was detected ..
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<amaya_the> What?
<amaya_the> humor?
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<hemanth> :D
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<amaya_the> Hi , Hanmac , what about your project ?
<amaya_the> You are still working on it , right?
<Hanmac> you mean rwx? yeah i pushed a few hours before
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<amaya_the> You still have not a blog?
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<Hanmac> no because i dont have much to talk :(
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<amaya_the> You know what? I worked out an ARPG System in rpgmaker vx ace.
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<amaya_the> And now , I am working on a RPG Map Chasing Encounter System .
<finnomenon> I have this gem imported: https://github.com/k33l0r/wol/blob/master/lib/wol/wakeonlan.rb and want do change the @address option
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<finnomenon> do I do this when initializing with WakeOnLan.new ?
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<Hanmac> amaya_the yeah i know the ARPG ... but do you know what? do you know the main reason why i am make the rwx binding? http://devel.pegasus-alpha.eu/projects/openrubyrmk
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<Hanmac> amaya_the goto to #openrubyrmk ... the big boss is currently online :P
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<shevy> cool
<shevy> Hanmac recruited another man ;)
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<aedorn> neat.. I wouldn't mind doing the art assets for an RPG written in Ruby
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<Hanmac> aedorn we have an music & art section too in the forum ... but its totaly generic ... because neigher the game engine nor the maker is finish
<shevy> making a RPG can be very, very hard work. the last one I worked in, http://blog.parpg.net/ faded away because we could not properly pool in the resources effectively
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<shevy> you totally need people (technically) able and (time-related) willing to push forward a game / the development
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<Hanmac> yeah i also read about "first the game, than the engine" but we already know that the engine must can too, we only need more time to write it :P
<Spooner_> Yeah, I remember being in mod teams with idiots. That didn't go well, which is why I've been a solo game dev until recently.
<aedorn> Hanmac: Yeah, I'll wait until its finished. Easier to make that stuff when there's an actual idea for a game along with the requirements!
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<Hanmac> aedorn i also thought about using an 3d lib for an RPG maker ... but the resources are maybe to difficult to make ..
<shevy> I think first-the-engine is actually better
<shevy> it sets the framework and the pace
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<aedorn> Until then, I'll just draw, do my 3d modeling for myself, and work on making my eyes bleed by staring at this pyanaconda code.
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<shevy> one problem with many people is, how do you manage them and their resources? I often heard complaints "I dont know how to contribute"
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<Hanmac> aedorn do you know ogre3d? i have an (unfinished) ruby binding for it
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<aedorn> Hanmac: As in the actual models? Or the ability to use said models?
<shevy> and what is HATE is constant switching of management tools... we had svn... then bazaar... then others wanted git ... we used assembla... then something else... nooobody remembered this chaos, you really need to play dictator to get them all to agree
<aedorn> Hanmac: Yup, I looked at that once upon a time
<Hanmac> aedorn do you mean ogre3d or my binding ? :P
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<shevy> aedorn what software do you use for your models?
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<aedorn> probably both! I definitely looked at Ruby bindings for everything. I wanted something to do more advanced protoyping and Flash just was being hateful at the time.
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<aedorn> shevy: Blender, Maya, 3ds Max, and then zBrush, Photoshop, etc..
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* ddd just finished taking a college course on Maya 2013
<shevy> whoa that many
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<aedorn> shevy: If you want to break into the gaming industry as an artist, you have to know the majority. So one or two things won't cut it. At least 2 modeling programs, Photoshop, and now even zBrush has become a requirement. Unless you're going indie!
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<shevy> we had one cool guy from italy doing the 3D models (in old fallout style, top down view, like you know http://asset2.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2009/12/09/fallout_540x415.jpg), but you always need to keep the artists motivated on board, that is much harder than programmers in my opinion
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<shevy> aedorn, yeah, a good friend studied industrial design, he is kinda picky in everything he does :-)
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<shevy> aedorn I didn't know you were kinda ~professional in it too
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<shevy> (he used to use windows before he switched to mac some years ago)
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<iron_dude> anyone knows a good tutorial on how to build an irc bot?
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<shevy> iron_dude hmm all start in ruby that way
<breakingthings> irc bots — todays standard in HOW DO I CODES?
<Spooner_> No-one uses irc any more :D
<iron_dude> trying to build a bot to interact with some of our servers, but I am failry new to Ruby....so I am still a student of the language
<Boohbah> iron_dude: /join #cinch
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<shevy> iron_dude, I use this tiny script to connect to freenode, it is a bit buggy though pastie.org/6639792
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<iron_dude> thank you Boohbah...I'll take a look at it
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<shevy> iron_dude, the most important part of this script is this here: select( [$stdin], nil, nil, 1.1 )
<iron_dude> shevy...thanks a lot...I'll check it out
<breakingthings> shevy: >tiny
<breakingthings> You can connect to IRC in like 20 lines
<shevy> iron_dude, yeah. if you want to understand select, check out: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/Kernel.html#method-i-select
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<shevy> breakingthings and how do you talk?
<breakingthings> create TCPSocket, loop on TCPSocket.readline
<iron_dude> as I said, it is mostly a project to learn the language
<aedorn> shevy: I really didn't want to be a programmer in the gaming industry, so I worked on my art skills. Then found out the sad truth of it all, and went back to programming. Things are changing now, so who knows, I may yet still end up doing nothing but art somewhere!
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<breakingthings> shevy: wasn't concerning myself with that bit since he's looking for a bot but there's a lot of extra fluff in your script :)
<shevy> breakingthings hmm good point
<shevy> it's a bot after all
<Boohbah> shevy: are you using your irc script right now?
<shevy> Boohbah, nope, it's a tiny bit buggy, and I want to add colour support, event actions etc... etc..
<shevy> Boohbah I use xchat right now, I am a bit of an GUI whore :(
<breakingthings> my very very simple connection class for an rb irc bot
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<shevy> I'd wish I could use more ruby + GUI
<Boohbah> we need better libraries
<Boohbah> go write one! :)
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<shevy> Boohbah but that is the good thing with small projects, I dont want to invest too much time, I am happy with 80% perfection hehe
<shevy> that is true, we need more and better libraries, and also the smaller (but useful), the better
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<shevy> ruby fpdf was not maintained in ~3 years
<shevy> I tried to take over the code base but it's such a mess
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<shevy> hmm what does rails uses to generate .pdf files?
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<aedorn> prawn or hook into wkhtmltopdf
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<shevy> ah ok
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<Xeago> doesn wkhtmltopdf have a butload of deps?
<shevy> aedorn I think programming is easier than being a (good) artist
<aedorn> Xeago: Yes it does. It depends on webkit, which depends on some GUI libs
<shevy> also being a good programmer seems easier than a good artist :-)
<aedorn> like X... I always go with Prawn.
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<hemanth_> TIL : protected methods are now hidden from #respond_to? in 2.0
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<aedorn> shevy: It depends. Everyone can draw, if given enough time. Not everyone can see said path to do so. And then 3D is a bit of a different beast which is more like sculpting. I know many people who can't draw, but can do 3d modeling, and vice versa. I also know people who can't make a texture to save their lives, but others who churn them out. A lot of things go under 'art'! And programming is an art, too.
<Hanmac> hemanth_ ask ri: "Private and protected methods are included in the search only if the optional second parameter evaluates to true."
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<hemanth_> Hanmac :-)
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<Spooner_> shevy, A bad programmer is only obvious to good programmers. A bad artist is obvious to everyone ;)
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<aedorn> Spooner_: Nah... plenty of bad artists under the guise of "modern art."
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<iron_dude> i am not sure being a good programmer is easier than a good artist....there is art in programming as well
<Spooner_> aedorn, And they are obvious to everyone ;) However, I could argue that they are good artists, but terrible at painting or sculpting or whatever.
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<Soulcutter> a bad programmer can be obvious to anyone
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<iron_dude> what is a bad artist?...it is all a matter of preception...a bad programmer can cause real havoc if all he/she can produce is buggy code
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<aedorn> Spooner_: noooo.. think paint splatter! Whoever decided a 5 year old that raged and threw paint on a canvas was an artist should be smacked
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<Spooner_> aedorn, Yeah and 99.9% of humanity can see through that sort of crap.
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<shevy> Spooner_ hehehe
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<shevy> iron_dude sure, it takes skills and brains, but I found the barrier for a good artist much higher than a good programmer
<aedorn> Hanmac: Exactly!
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<breakingthings> shevy: bet you they see us the saaaame waaay.
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<shevy> Hanmac, actually a lot of graffiti is indeed art
<iron_dude> shevy I would say maybe...depending on what kind of art are we talking about. Can anyone paint the Sixteenth Chapel...No, but pretty much anyone can throw buckets of paint at a canvas and also call it art
<shevy> there is also a lot of awful graffiti unfortunately, it really depends
<iron_dude> but i think i see your point
<shevy> I think the good graffiti artists should get their niche
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<shevy> iron_dude, yeah, it's very subjective. with code, I think one great design principle is to stay minimal/lean/concise
<iron_dude> although I still think both are equally difficult....again to me there is art in programming as well
<Hanmac> iron_dude, isnt that also the way how EA makes Games?
<shevy> in art, it often is better the higher the complexity and level of detail
<shevy> and I cant reach that level of detail in art :(
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<aedorn> shevy: As breakingthings said, artists think programming is magic. (however, the competition to be paid *well* as an artist is much greater than that of a software developer)
<shevy> I even have difficulty drawing a straight line with pencil + a ruler ;)
* Hanmac thinks that perfect ruby code lines are Art too
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<iron_dude> Hanmac...yup you are right
<Hanmac> aedorn, they are right, my programming is black magic :P
<shevy> iron_dude what language did you use before ruby?
<shevy> programming language
<aedorn> Hanmac: Yes, sometimes your one-liners scare me =p
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<iron_dude> i come from the Microsoft world, so C++, C# has been my main background
<iron_dude> done a bit of java too
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<Hanmac> iron_dude, you can use your C++ skills to improf ruby with external bindings :P
<iron_dude> and i have found myself in love with Ruby lately
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<iron_dude> Hanmac and shevy what's your opinion on JRuby vs MRI?
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<shevy> iron_dude I am biased. I am java free. hahahaha :D
<iron_dude> lol
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<shevy> I think when you have java, the JVM is very useful
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<shevy> but I come more from the scripting world, used perl before ruby, also php
<shevy> ruby replaced all my shell scripts
<iron_dude> there are some guys here in the office that all they want to see is jruby...so as a new comer i am wondering if the difference in speed is so significant as they claim
<shevy> well jruby is still ruby right?
<Hanmac> iron_dude, i prefer MRI or rubinius, so i can use my C++ gems
<shevy> so as long as it is ruby, it should be fine
<aedorn> iron_dude: depends on what you're doing with it
<aedorn> (in terms of speed gains)
<iron_dude> yes, it is ruby....
<shevy> and if you have no problem using java, then that's fine too (I dont want to use java because I dont really need it for myself)
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<iron_dude> right now i dont think they support 2.0 yet
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<Hanmac> iron_dude, jruby may be faster (MRI1.93 and 2.0 are getting nearer) but with jruby you lose the C-API that MRI and RBX has
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<iron_dude> Hanmac that's exactly my point w/ discussing it with these guys...i guess as long as it is ruby, MRI or Jruby is a matter of preference and as shevy said depends on how much you are willing to have java in your life :)
<breakingthings> seems to use significantly more memory if I'm reading the stats right.
<aedorn> well yeah, it has to load the JVM
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<breakingthings> ofc
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<breakingthings> but by quite a magnitude in some cases.
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<bean> yeah, the JVM isn't light
<bean> at all
<Hanmac> pah i have gems that are bigger than JVM :D
<aedorn> Also a big reason why if you want embedded java you have to design specifically for it. meh
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<breakingthings> obviously though,
<breakingthings> we all need to switch to fortran.
<GeekOnCoffee> pooh pick me!
<bricker`LA> I always forget, and the docs are kind of unclear... the correct order is: alias_method :nonexisting_method, :existing_method
<bricker`LA> right?
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<breakingthings> Taking more than 3 and a half seconds to calculate the mandlebrot set is for suckers
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<breakingthings> Alternatively, use 8kb of mem with Pascal, because it's apparently witchcraft.
<aedorn> lol
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<aedorn> bricker`LA: yes
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<bricker`LA> aedorn: thanks
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<iron_dude> breakingthings, i am trying to understand the benchmarks
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<iron_dude> If i understand the first chart correctly jruby might be even slower for a lot of cases vs ruby 2.0
<andersbr> I can't figure out how to make Google tell me this one. Is there a way to decorate one of the core classes with class and instance methods, but have them only apply within a specific module? https://gist.github.com/darthschmoo/5205696
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<LiquidInsect> andersbr: refinements in 2.0 kind of do what you want but it's at the file level, I think, not module.
<breakingthings> iron_dude: seems like it
<LiquidInsect> haven't gotten into it myself yet
<breakingthings> the uhh...
<breakingthings> the 'fasta' program took 132x the time
<breakingthings> it actually timed out
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<andersbr> LiquidInsect: Unfortunately, I'm stuck back on Ruby 1.9.
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<breakingthings> 1.9's not so bad though
<LiquidInsect> andersbr: don't think there's any way to do quite what you want then
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<andersbr> Understandable. I'm sure there's another way to keep my gem from beating up everyone else's namespaces and taking their milk money. :)
<LiquidInsect> glad to see the effort being made
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<shevy> I dont understand refinements
<shevy> are refinements between a class and a module?
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<LiquidInsect> I've worked with too many gems (meaning more than zero) that are like "Oh hey, I can just override Numeric#+? Going for it!"
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<shevy> it seems refinements are just namespaced (in a module) modifications
<Hanmac> LiquidInsect: overwriting -@ and +@ are more evil :D
<shevy> is "using" a new keyword?
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<LiquidInsect> shevy: yeah
<LiquidInsect> and "refine"
<shevy> hmm
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<LiquidInsect> so using tells you to "use" the module, and the module deinfes which class it refines. Very different from extend/include/prepend because you're modifying behavior in a different class from yourself
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<LiquidInsect> a little info there... it's still an experimental feature and doesn't work quite the way it was originally intended I think
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<LiquidInsect> AFAIK if you 'use' a module in one class in one file, then in another file reopen the class, you lose the reifnement you made to the OTHER class the first time you opened the class
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<LiquidInsect> ...if that makes any sense at all.
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<Hanmac> prepend also is not 100% finished
<LiquidInsect> really? blegh.
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> matz should redesign that all
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<shevy> perhaps refinements should be completely integrated on the module level
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<shevy> like, set definite states for modules in how they are supposed to be used
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<shevy> "this module may extend a class freely"
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<shevy> "this module may extend a class, but also allows restoration of the initial class state again"
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<breakingthings> current status: spamming gifs in group chat with coworkers
<breakingthings> yep, productivity
<realDAB> i wonder whether the term "mix-in" applies equally to prepended modules as to included modules
<LiquidInsect> breakingthings: what, that's not normal?
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<shevy> realDAB hmm, the way I understand a mix-in is mostly the behaviour, that is mixed into a class
<shevy> it's a bit conflicting with a subclass... subclassing approach is quite a total way of mixing in behaviour or?
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<realDAB> shevy: i'm specifically wondering about the 'mix-in' terminology, now that there are two ways to do it (in ruby 2)
<realDAB> i guess prepending is also a form of mixing in
<lectrick> Hey guys. Let's talk about hashes.
<shevy> wasn't that always the case?
<shevy> realDAB, via .ancestors
<shevy> including subclasses
<realDAB> shevy: i'm only talking about modules
<Hanmac> realDAB ... there are four ... include,prepend,extend and refine
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<shevy> class X; end; class Y < X; end; X.ancestors
<realDAB> Hanmac: yeah, that too :-)
<shevy> # => [X, Object, ERB::Util, StdModules, CustomMethods, StdConstants, Wirble::Shortcuts, StdChemistry, PP::ObjectMixin, Kernel]
<shevy> man, I need to clean up my crap here...
<Hanmac> xD
* realDAB is doing book revisions and wants to be precise about the terminology
<lectrick> shevy: banister_ Banistergalaxy I was reading about the Github fiasco from yesterday and it turns out that it has to do with hash key format ambiguity/indeterminism. We have seen similar subtle bugs in our app stack based on the same problem
<realDAB> it's a hard chapter to revise actually
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<realDAB> obsolete diagrams and everything :-)
<Hanmac> shevy be happy that ruby does not have multi-inheritance per default :P
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<shevy> lectrick hey man, I know nothing at all about these kind of hashes
<lectrick> Basically I am starting to think that HashWithIndifferentAccess is extremely bad, and we should have instead gone with a HashEnforcingStringKeys and a HashEnforcingSymbolKeys instead
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<lectrick> https://gist.github.com/pmarreck/5205946 demonstrates the problem, or tries to approach it
<shevy> but I am glad that I have never in my life used HashWithIndifferentAccess
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<lectrick> shevy: I'd avoid it based on my past year's experience
<banister_> lectrick: why are u pinging me? i dont think i was involved in your conversation i have no idea what yu're talking about :)
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<lectrick> banister_: well, if you're banisterfiend, then I just like your opinion lol
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<Hanmac> lectrick talk to the rails guys ... they wanted to change the default Hash to HashWithIndifferentAccess, only because they no dont undersand the difference between an symbol and a string
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<lectrick> Hanmac: I am convinced that HashEnforcingStringKeys or HashEnforcingSymbolKeys (which raises when the wrong key format is supplied) would be 100% better
<interactionjaxsn> Hanmac: whats the diff?
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<Hanmac> interactionjaxsn: symbols cant be deleted
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<shevy> symbols must be destroyed
<shevy> hmm does perl have symbols?
<interactionjaxsn> Hanmac: how are they like strings and what do they hold?
<shevy> interactionjaxsn symbols are like strings?
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<Hanmac> interactionsjaxsn: sample (1..10000000).map {"string" } vs (1..10000000).map {:string } ... try to quess what fills your ram more
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<lectrick> shevy: I agree that there should be a way to destroy symbols, but that would lead to... problems
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<shevy> hehe
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<Hanmac> interactionjaxsn: symbols are used when you want some kind of C enum ... where the name is important and not the context, use String where the context is important
<shevy> I actually meant to get rid of them... but now I really want to know if other scripting languages have them
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<Spooner_> lectrick, Not really. If they got collected based on reference counting, that would be fine. They'd just get recreated when needed again.
<lectrick> Hanmac: oh yeah? try this: 10000.times{ rand.to_s.to_sym }
<lectrick> Hanmac: That memory will never be reclaimed! :)
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<rippa> you always can start another copy and exit
<lectrick> Spooner_: No, because recreating them changes their object ID's and that would mess up symbol key based hashes
<Hanmac> lectrick: there are also bug tickets to make symbols GC'able ... that this would crash all C-Ext does not interest the rails-fanboys
<Spooner_> lectrick, No, because if they were currently in Hashes as keys, they wouldn't get collected.
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<lectrick> Spooner_: Ah, I see.
<edward_> When I use fork in ruby, am I supposed to see the ruby processes in a task manager?
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<Spooner_> Yes, fork uses full processes. Threads don't.
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<edward_> ok ty
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<Spooner_> The problem, I imagine, is that actually GCing all the symbols all the time would take up a lot of time and they'd often not get collected.
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<Hanmac> lectrick i use IDs in std::map<ID,enumtype> for more cool enum wrapping, the stupid railterrorists would break that
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<lectrick> Hanmac: lol "railterrorists"
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<Hanmac> i dont know wich has the worse fanboys ... apple or rails
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<interactionjaxsn> Hanmac: guilty. so my next question is whats the diff in rails between set_primary_key
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<interactionjaxsn> Hanmac: set_primary_key 'string' and :symbol
<interactionjaxsn> Hanmac: size?
<Hanmac> interactionjaxsn ask in #rubyonrails
<lectrick> Hanmac: As a fanboy (with a bit of healthy skepticism) of both... I am confused lol
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<lectrick> Rails brought me to Ruby, and OS X brought me to Unix... so I can't really be that angry
<interactionjaxsn> Hanmac: i understand from a rails point of view, i think.
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: all fanboys are pretty bad IMO
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<wmoxam> ever meet a true blue Windows/MS fanboy?
<wmoxam> or a GNU fanboy?
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<JonnieCache> like rms you mean? ;)
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<shevy> I would like to go back to windows
<shevy> but this win apps shit makes it impossible
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* bean uses windows for gaming
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<JonnieCache> w00t!! humankind has left the heliosphere! http://www.agu.org/news/press/pr_archives/2013/2013-11.shtml
<JonnieCache> hell yes
* wmoxam uses Windows for testing stuff in IE
<JonnieCache> goodbye solarsystem
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<JonnieCache> although apparently it happened at the end of last summer, and its just the paper thats out today
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* UberNerdGirl wanders in, a bit dazed
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<JonnieCache> lol
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<UberNerdGirl> Are the rumors true? Is David A Black here!?!?
<UberNerdGirl> Or have my ears deceived me?!
<shevy> he uses another nick
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<shevy> but we are all David A Black!!!
<wmoxam> Hanmac: I don't see what so fanboyish about the GC ticket
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<UberNerdGirl> shevy: nay! there is only one David A Black, all others are dupes/clones
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<UberNerdGirl> replicas || imitations || imposters
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<wmoxam> the submitter basically says he's ignorant about the implications, and seemed happy to learn of the reasons behind why it's implmented the way it is
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<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: hi
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<JonnieCache> UberNerdGirl: is this the culmination of some epic quest?
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<Hanmac> wmoxam the problem is that they do not care that they break all other projects
<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: ah, you're romy, yes?
<UberNerdGirl> realDAB: are you as real as purported? Or is this apocryphal?
<wmoxam> Hanmac: why do you say they don't care?
<UberNerdGirl> realDAB: guess who I am!?
<UberNerdGirl> realDAB: do you remember _me_ ???!!
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: there is no indication of that in the ticket at all
<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: i just said, you're romy :-)
<UberNerdGirl> Hahahahahaha!
<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: sure -- last saw you at nyc ruby women where i gave a talk, i believe
<UberNerdGirl> Then I reckon you haven't forgotten me
<realDAB> correct
<UberNerdGirl> haha yes!!
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<UberNerdGirl> realDAB: I was there with my nerdy partner in crime, Luis
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: ignorance yes, but just looking for a solution.
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<UberNerdGirl> we sat in the very back and gave some enthusiastic commentary. I remember, you had some interesting stuff on Ostruct
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<Hanmac> wmoxam: http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7797 << "HashWithIndifferentAccess" should replace the orginal Hash
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: I think that Patterson's idea is workable: http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7839
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<UberNerdGirl> Very neat talk, realDAB Luis and I took a lot of notes
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<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: is that group still going strong?
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<UberNerdGirl> Indeed
<realDAB> cool
<UberNerdGirl> and guess what, I am in HACKER SCHOOL now!
* UberNerdGirl beams mirthfully
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<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: great
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<Hanmac> wmoxam: something like that? http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7792 :P
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: yeah, Rodrigo seems to be a bit of a dick
<wmoxam> :/
<shevy> still
<Hanmac> because rails users are to dump to use json currectly ... :P
<shevy> it comes down to when to use symbols and when not
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<Hanmac> shevy did you read the warning at http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/ ? :P
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<shevy> yeah but I dont care
<shevy> I use ruby 1.8.7xxx :>
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<UberNerdGirl> realDAB: Last year I learned how `yield` works through the example in your chapter. Your creativity left a teensy bit to be desired, however, so I changed it a bit: http://cl.ly/image/0L343Q3f0C2C
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: "because rails users are to dump to use json currectly ... :P" ????
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<UberNerdGirl> I remember I coded that while in my friend's apartment on the upper west side near Columbia university
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<Hanmac> shevy i mean: "Ruby vulnerability reports are temporarily suspended while web.nvd.nist.gov search is being fixed."
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<Hanmac> wmoxam: for sample: in 99% of the cases they forgot to validate the userinput because without its more easier
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<JonnieCache> what is this, ironic bad grammar day?
<wmoxam> Hanmac: I believe you've pulled 100% of your stats out of your ass
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<wmoxam> that's ok, because it's cool to shit on Ruby's largest user base because they're obviously all idiots anyways.
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<wmoxam> If Ruby would only get rid of all the idiots, the other 10 people who use it would have an idyllic life
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<LiquidInsect> Obviously, I mean nobody who's GOOD at Ruby would do something silly like use Rails in their day job.
<Hanmac> wmoxam: like that?: ""Summary: The Active Record component in Ruby on Rails 2.3.x before 2.3.18, 3.1.x before 3.1.12, and 3.2.x before 3.2.13 processes certain queries by converting hash keys to symbols, which allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service via crafted input to a where method.""
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<wmoxam> never, evar
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<wmoxam> Hanmac: yeah, idiots. Every. One.
<thinkclay> Sinatra question: what methods will access the three logged lines in terminal?
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<wmoxam> if they weren't idiots they'd never make mistakes
<thinkclay> ::1 - - [20/Mar/2013 00:13:42] "GET /12345 HTTP/1.1" 200 - 0.0029
<thinkclay> localhost - - [20/Mar/2013:00:13:42 MDT] "GET /12345 HTTP/1.1" 200 0
<thinkclay> http://thinkclay.com/ -> /12345
<Hanmac> wmoxam and while we are at bad functions, do you know Symbol#succ?
<Hanmac> >> :a.succ
<eval-in> Hanmac => :b (http://eval.in/13173)
<Spooner_> Are you trying to say that Symbols succ, Hanmac ?
* UberNerdGirl falls to the floor laughing
<Hanmac> >> (:a..:z).to_a
<eval-in> Hanmac => [:a, :b, :c, :d, :e, :f, :g, :h, :i, :j, :k, :l, :m, :n, :o, :p, :q, :r, :s, :t, :u, :v, :w, :x, :y, :z] (http://eval.in/13174)
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<wmoxam> I'm pretty sure he's trying to keep people off his lawn
<UberNerdGirl> Spooner_: I figure he is not fond of them .
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<Hanmac> why in the name of matz does symbols need a succ method?
<banisterfiend> Hanmac: he's making symbols more like strings
<UberNerdGirl> good question
<tobiasvl> because strings have then
<tobiasvl> them
<apeiros_> Hanmac: I like [*:a..:z]
<LiquidInsect> but symbols aren't strings
<tobiasvl> and also because why not
<wmoxam> >> [*:a..:z]
<eval-in> wmoxam => [:a, :b, :c, :d, :e, :f, :g, :h, :i, :j, :k, :l, :m, :n, :o, :p, :q, :r, :s, :t, :u, :v, :w, :x, :y, :z] (http://eval.in/13175)
<tobiasvl> well, they're pretty much immutable strings
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<JonnieCache> apeiros_: wtf is the * doing there
<Hanmac> its splating :P
<apeiros_> the same as everywhere - it splats
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<JonnieCache> is it just a fancy way of doing (:a..:z).to_a
<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: without it you just get an array of one element (a Range)
<Hanmac> we need a cool word for the ** :P
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<banisterfiend> Hanmac: badonk
<JonnieCache> LOL
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<Hanmac> symbols have a [] method too :P
<JonnieCache> how about just donk? as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=ckMvj1piK58&hl=en-GB
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<LiquidInsect> kersplat
<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: :-)
<Hanmac> >> :abc["b"]
<eval-in> Hanmac => "b" (http://eval.in/13176)
<JonnieCache> wtf
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* JonnieCache runs to the rdoc
<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: we could see what python guys came up with
<banisterfiend> my guess, something boring
<banisterfiend> as is their style
<JonnieCache> boringness is actually in python's IEEE spec iirc
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<JonnieCache> ISO spec rather. damn. another comedy opportunity smashed against the rocks of my poor memory
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<UberNerdGirl> realDAB: Perhaps, the next time you visit NYC, you may want to swing by and give a talk at Hacker School. Rubyists abound in this current batch, but a lot of Pythonistas still slither insidiously. Anyway, I always wondered, did you pick the cover art for WGR ?
<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: i can't remember -- i think the publisher chose it, but they may have given me a choice out of 2 or 3 different ones.
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<Hanmac> JonnieCache: Symbol#[] => sym.to_s[]
<Hanmac> JonnieCache: Symbol#succ => sym.to_s.succ.intern.
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<JonnieCache> Hanmac: yeah i looked
<UberNerdGirl> realDAB hm, are you working on other books?
<Spooner_> UberNerdGirl, When are you launching the official DAB fan club?
<realDAB> UberNerdGirl: i'm updating twgr for ruby 2
<Hanmac> >> :aBc.swapcase
<eval-in> Hanmac => :AbC (http://eval.in/13177)
<JonnieCache> Hanmac: it was the passing of a string into String#[] which confused me
<UberNerdGirl> Spooner_: oh, it already launched in NYC. YOu are sooooo yesterday, please stop living under the rock.
<JonnieCache> turns out its actually doing a substring check
<Hanmac> yeah substringcheck is cool :P
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<ehellman> Hi! Just started playing around in Ruby and I got this error when I tried to require a file inside my spec. All code and error is published here: https://gist.github.com/ehellman/5206568 - I have googled but I can only find people saying that they should "reinstall rvm", but that seems a bit drastic, right? I mean if I remove the require line the spec goes through without any problems at all. What am I doing wrong?
<JonnieCache> Hanmac: tbh aliasing it to [] is a bit too much for my tastes
<JonnieCache> Hanmac: =~ does me fine
<Spooner_> ehellman, Use require_relative, not require.
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<ehellman> Spooner_: I love you
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<ehellman> Thanks! :D
<Hanmac> UberNerdGirl you mean this rock? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzSUV1JoYCk
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<Spooner_> ehellman, That would have worked in Ruby 1.8.7 though.
<UberNerdGirl> ehellman: don't be tricked by Spooner_ 's wiles. This is how all his schemes originate.
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<ehellman> UberNerdGirl: He helped me, sorry, I'm already sold ;)
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<UberNerdGirl> ehellman: how much did Spooner_ pay you to echo these strings?
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: what does argentan mean
<banisterfiend> it's a swiss word
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<Spooner_> ehellman, Keep quiet! Admit nothing!
<ehellman> UberNerdGirl: ./groom_spooner_.rb earned me 5 dollars! :)
<ehellman> Damn, me and my blabbermouth! :(
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<banisterfiend> UberNerdGirl: are you Spooner_'s online girlfriend
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* UberNerdGirl narrows brows
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<UberNerdGirl> ehellman: I see the truth
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<UberNerdGirl> banisterfiend: How ridiculous. I am _far more_ than that
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<UberNerdGirl> i'm not his, he's _mine_
<Spooner_> Er, OK.
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<Spooner_> banisterfiend, ((Actually, I'm just an IRC bot she threw together)).
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<wmoxam> http://is.gd/mdYwzj <---- UberNerdGirl
<apeiros_> banisterfiend: argentan? got some context?
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<UberNerdGirl> wmoxam: i am highly offended you blatantly posted my picture on the internet like that. what's wrong with you.
* wmoxam hides
* UberNerdGirl brings out the electrocution chair
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<Spooner_> You need to remember to plug that in, UberNerdGirl !
<Spooner_> Otherwise it is just...a chair.
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<tiennou> hi ! I'm having a hard time using DateTimes
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<tiennou> I'm trying to write a time accounter, basically I'm summing differences between DateTimes, but then I'm not sure how to convert them back into our standard time units (days, hours,...)
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<tiennou> I found a post that uses day_fraction_to_time, but this doesn't work under 1.9.2
<tiennou> and the manual code I've written doesn't give back the correct results (i'm doing a bunch of divmods for each step)
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<thinkclay> is there a simple "truthie" check in ruby? Aka return false if nil, null, empty string, etc
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<Spooner_> thinkclay, No, because only false and nil are falsey in Ruby.
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<thinkclay> spooner okay, thought so but thought I'd ask
<Spooner_> thinkclay, And we don't have a concept of null (only nil, which is pretty much the same thing).
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<Spooner_> It is a common request of new users coming from some other languages where 0/null/false/'' are falsy.
<xrq> nil isn't usually a concept but a set of rules
<thinkclay> yea, maybe a simple method that did a check would be cool. I like that bool checks are more strict but a value.falsey would be pretty useful
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<Spooner_> No reason you can't implement it easily, but it does make sense to use more Rubyish idioms in Ruby.
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<thinkclay> ya, i'd rather do it the ruby way for now and see if after I've mastered that if it's really still a feature I'd want
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<Spooner_> thinkclay, e.g. string.empty? or number.zero? or frog.nil?
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<Spooner_> Or collection.empty?
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<nobitanobi> hi
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<slash_nick> If you wanted to parse javascript files for comments, what woud you use?
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<shevy> slash_nick File.readlines() and select all entries that got started/ended with valid comments
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<Hanmac> hm does java-script has block comments too?
<slash_nick> Hanmac: yeah
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<Hanmac> then shevys readlines is not enough
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<slash_nick> not_commented /* commented */ not_commented // commented
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<slash_nick> Hanmac: it might be...
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<slash_nick> I JUST want the comments at the top of the file
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<shevy> nono
<shevy> you could couple File.readlines with what you need
<shevy> first, read them in
<shevy> second, work through that array
<shevy> if line contains start of comment
<shevy> append to new array
<apeiros_> shevy: won't work that trivially.
<apeiros_> "/* this is not a comment */"
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<shevy> hey
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<apeiros_> though, "just the comment at the top" - a regex should be sufficient then
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<Banistergalaxy> Apeiros which client side js framework do you use
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<Banistergalaxy> I mean MVC one
<apeiros_> Banistergalaxy: none
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<apeiros_> Banistergalaxy: you haven't given me a phrase/sentence with that word from before :-)
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<Banistergalaxy> From before?
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<apeiros_> Banistergalaxy: 18:38 apeiros_: banisterfiend: argentan? got some context?
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<Banistergalaxy> Oh
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<Banistergalaxy> It refers to imitation silver I think
<Banistergalaxy> Re Swiss watches
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<aedorn> I thought Argentan was a place in France
<apeiros_> never heard that
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<apeiros_> I mean, argentum is latin for silver iirc
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<shevy> yeah
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<apeiros_> Banistergalaxy: seems to be a marketing term, not a swiss word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver
<Banistergalaxy> Ah
<axl_> i want to generate a histogram from an array - something like this https://gist.github.com/gaganawhad/5206785
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<axl_> any ideas about what might be an elegant way to go bout doing it?
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<axl_> oops sorry wrong gist. this is the right one: https://gist.github.com/gaganawhad/5207384
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<Banistergalaxy> Apeiros ah hte TV show I watched said it was Swiss
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<apeiros_> Banistergalaxy: maybe a swiss company coined, or even trademarked it
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<apeiros_> axl_: IMO not reasonably
<apeiros_> axl_: personal preference - no `self.`
<axl_> hmmm…
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<Banistergalaxy> Doesn't sound Swiss, not German sounding /scary enough
<Banistergalaxy> ;)
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<shevy> axl_ always try to use as little as necessary
<axl_> how does that apply here?
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<shevy> dunno
<shevy> hahahaha :)
<shevy> I'd use self.each too there
<axl_> do or do not. there is no try.
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<shevy> look how many colour related modules there are!
<shevy> ok, minus a few, like "ecology" haha
<matti> colors?
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<shevy> yeah
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<shevy> too many
<shevy> matti, please write one to rule them all
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<shevy> I have full faith in matti's ability
<slash_nick> apeiros_, shevy, Hanmac thanks for the advice
<shevy> there will be only one colour module in the future
<slash_nick> called "color" i hope :)
<shevy> grrrrr
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<matti> shevy: No.
<shevy> the UK should accept this spelling
<Mon_Ouie> Color is already taken (as is colour)
<matti> shevy: Because then somebody will go on a quest through Mordor to throw it into a vulcano.
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<shevy> Mon_Ouie, yeah, popular names are quickly taken for gem projects :(
<slash_nick> they're interchangeable... but you should use the one I'M used to.
<shevy> lol slash_nick
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<Hanmac> each my C++ gem has its own Color class but they are all interchangable
<slash_nick> "spectrum" is probably taken too
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<Mon_Ouie> We're talking about spelling, not capabilities, etc. ;)
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<shevy> Hanmac so you use Color vs. Colour?
<matti> Let's go hipster.
<matti> Qolor
<matti> ;d
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<Hanmac> shevy no i mean when you
<Hanmac> ups
<shevy> no, I will kill you if you are a hipster matti
<matti> Haha
<shevy> Hanmac, I myself? would use class Colour
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<matti> shevy: Why?
<shevy> I cant use both
* matti cries now
<shevy> matti, as hipster? you don't deserve to exist
<matti> shevy: I am so proud of my thick frame glasses and skinny jeans.
<slash_nick> Color.include?("gray") #=> true .... Colour.include?("grey") #=> true .... Colour.include?("gray") #=> false
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<shevy> yes, this I hate about the english language
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<Hanmac> i mean when a method wants an WX::Color, a CEGUI::Color or an Ogre::Color or an ColorStruct is fine too
<shevy> world war 3 should be about spelling alone, the winner then gets to decide
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<matti> slash_nick: LOL example ;]
<Hanmac> an Fixnum or an String is fine too
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<nobitanobi> matti, is this Matt Aimonetti by chance?
<matti> nobitanobi: Hehe.
<matti> nobitanobi: No, sorry.
<nobitanobi> :)
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<matti> But, I do get asked that often.
<nobitanobi> just wanted to congrat you :)
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<matti> nobitanobi: Oh? What happened to Matt?
<matti> nobitanobi: I think his nick is "merbist".
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<matti> Like his Twitter handle.
<Mon_Ouie> Btw, what does your nick stand for? It doesn't seem to be resemble your name seeing your twitter account :p
<shevy> it reminds me of a finnish person
<shevy> matti hautamaeki
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<matti> Ski jumper.
<matti> Mon_Ouie: Well. Long, long time ago.
<matti> Mon_Ouie: When Internet was only shown in Byte computer magazine as "something that will conquer the world".
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<matti> ;p
<matti> [ OK, I did overboard a little ... ]
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<matti> Mon_Ouie: Long time ago, back in high school, I was playing AD&D a lot.
<Mon_Ouie> What's the A for there? I assume D&D is Dungeons and Dragons
<matti> Mon_Ouie: And we've had a Game Master who was very strict. And so we were tosing dices to select character names randomly out of a name book.
<mouse-_> Mon_Ouie: "advanced"
<shevy> Mon_Ouie the continuation it was, "advanced", the old D&D was like ancient, AD&D should have come some years afterwards
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<mouse-_> now all of that stuff is on the vintage radar
<Mon_Ouie> Aha
<matti> What they said -^
<shevy> :(
<shevy> old memories
<matti> So.
<matti> I ended up getting "Matti"
<matti> As my character first name.
<xj54y> Hello. I don't know any ruby nor have I read much literature on it but.. Syntactically and functionally, the grammar is sensible. Anyhow, ran `gem install rails -V` and ended up with http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zCrMpT3B Not only is this error message ambiguous, but it's not at all sensible, nor is there much information provided to allow for diagnosing the issue..
<xj54y> Any insights?
<shevy> and you stuck with it so many years matti!!! ;)
<matti> Yes.
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<matti> Precisely ;]
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<matti> How sad :<
* matti is such a nerd.
<matti> I mea... err... Hipster.
<shevy> xj54y the real error is hidden
<matti> ;p
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<xj54y> shevy: clearly.. Where is it hidden?
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<shevy> xj54y probably you failed to build native extension for json
<shevy> Results logged to /usr/lib64/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/json-1.7.7/ext/json/ext/generator/gem_make.out
<mouse-_> the last line
<shevy> look at that file
<matti> Yeah.
<xj54y> shevy: What...
<matti> apt-get install make
<shevy> hehe
<matti> And/or libruby-dev (or something with headers).
<xj54y> shevy: cat /usr/lib64/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/json-1.7.7/ext/json/ext/generator/gem_make.out
<xj54y> Building has failed. See above output for more information on the failure.
<shevy> hahaha
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<matti> xj54y: That's fine.
<matti> xj54y: gem install -V json
<shevy> xj54y, usually you simply lack something that is required
<shevy> be it make, be it some .h files
<matti> shevy: Like sexapeal.
<matti> ;d
<Mon_Ouie> If that's Ubuntu (or similarly Debian-based), it's likely you miss mkmf.rb from stdlib
<shevy> debian users have no sex appeal
<xj54y> shevy: ah.. Would be pretty trivial to alert the user of what's missing, no? :|
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<xj54y> Where can I find the 'hidden' logs?
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<matti> Mon_Ouie: mkmf.rb IIRC is always there, but he might be missing make.
<shevy> xj54y, yup! I would do so if I would write something like that! but I did not write any of that, I also dont use debian
<xj54y> matti: same exact error
<shevy> hehehe
<Mon_Ouie> I'm pretty sure they separate (at least, they used to) part of stdlib (including mkmf) from the regular ruby package
<matti> xj54y: OK, check .out now ;]
<shevy> xj54y does "gcc -v" work
<xj54y> Yes..
<Mon_Ouie> And put the rest in ruby-dev
<xj54y> matti: err, same exact error
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<matti> Now, that is rather odd.
<shevy> go to the dir, cd /usr/lib64/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/json-1.7.7
<matti> xj54y: Type: make
<matti> Out of curiosity.
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<xj54y> matti, why? There's no makefile in my working directory... o_O
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<matti> Mon_Ouie: I belive you. Since some time I just build my own Ruby.
<atmosx> hello
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<atmosx> curiosity!
<shevy> what is your working directory?
<matti> xj54y: Too see if you have make ;p
<shevy> make json your working dir
<xj54y> I have my build tools and so fourth, that's not an issue at all
<shevy> look at extconf.rb
<Mon_Ouie> xj54y: Did you install the ruby-dev package?
<matti> xj54y: Ack.
<shevy> xj54y you 100% have a build issue here
<matti> Mon_Ouie: So it always has mkmf.rb
<shevy> json installs fine for me
<xj54y> shevy, correction, 'autotools'
<shevy> Fetching: json-1.7.7.gem (100%)
<shevy> Building native extensions. This could take a while...
<shevy> Successfully installed json-1.7.7
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<shevy> xj54y just go to the directory where json-1.7.7 is
<shevy> run it manually
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<xj54y> Mon_Ouie: I do have that package installed
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<xj54y> shevey, where is extconf.rb and what would I be looking for?
<shevy> xj54y all gems are installed into one directory
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<shevy> debian is using some crazy path
<xj54y> Doubt it
<xj54y> simply because I'm not using debian
<shevy> <xj54y> shevy: cat /usr/lib64/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/json-1.7.7/ext/json/ext/generator/gem_make.out <-- should be there
<shevy> cd /usr/lib64/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/json-1.7.7/
<xj54y> yeah, checking it out
<shevy> well that path
<shevy> how did you install ruby :P
<xj54y> shevy: use my distributions package manager...
<shevy> ok, in that dir, look for extconf.rb or perhaps it is under ext/ directory there
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<xj54y> shevy: Yeah, but what am I to look for?
<xj54y> Looks like a buildfile
<Mon_Ouie> If you run the file manually (ruby extconf.rb), does it generate a makefile properly?
<shevy> xj54y hmm if you are in the same directory
<shevy> yeah, what Mon_Ouie just wrote
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<xj54y> Correct, a makefile is properly generated..
<xj54y> Even further, ERROR: While executing gem ... (NoMethodError) undefined method `join' for nil:NilClass
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<Mon_Ouie> "executing" gem?
<xj54y> Gotta love that lack of information. Makes me wonder why anyone bothers to output ANYTHING at all given how obvious it how that much isn't working...
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<Mon_Ouie> Oh, executing the gem binary itself
<Mon_Ouie> Well if you run make in that directory, does it build the extension?
<Hanmac> xj54y is there are a method with a ! inside?
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<shevy> xj54y but it works for me :P
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<xj54y> shevy: good for you.
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<shevy> xj54y so to recapitulate, "ruby extconf.rb" runs without any error? best paste that output
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<shevy> hmmm I don't see extconf.rb in json-1.7.7
<shevy> aha
<xj54y> shevy: Yeah, runs fine.. Just leads to other ambiguous error messages.
<shevy> moment
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<shevy> ewww, the output is hard to read but have a look at: http://pastie.org/pastes/6642685/text
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<shevy> works in the other directories as well
<shevy> can you paste the messages you get somewhere please?
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<xj54y> shevy: I'm not going to as it helps neither one of us. I'm taking care of this myself.. Asking for any tips here is slowing me down considerably.
<xj54y> Thanks for the help thus far.
<shevy> hehe
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<bean> I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT
<bean> no more rvm for me
<bean> its messed with my path for the last time
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<Hanmac> :P
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<Hanmac> bean what did you try?
<bean> its special work stuff :P
<bean> basically we all decided to screw rvm
<bean> and i was the last holdout
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<Hanmac> i build my stuff against trunk ... if it works with latest normal release its only a bonus :P
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<bean> unfortunately i have lots of external dependencies
<bean> lots of stuff w/ chef, etc
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<bean> so 1.9.3 it is :)
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<Frederick> guys im facing issues installing kibana (www.kibana.org) Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid Lynx). When I do bundle install I get Bundler::GemfileNotFound but sudo gem install bundler seems oki. Any ideas? It really seems environment related. DO you have any ideas?
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<Hanmac> bean stuff of 1.9.3 should works with 2.0 too
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<bean> should, but you'd be surprised
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<carloslopes> Frederick: bundle install is different than gem install
<Hanmac> bean can you specifiy it?
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<bean> Hanmac: just unsure on a lot of chef / berkshelf stuff
<Frederick> carloslopes: im really noob on ruby sO I think im doing some misconfig
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<Frederick> can you please point me some link or just check with me if you got some time?
<Frederick> cause im 100% sue im following the docs
<carloslopes> Frederick: to use bundler, you need to add a Gemfile file on your directory.. see http://gembundler.com/
<carloslopes> Frederick: gem install will install a gem on your system and 'bundler install' will install all gems specified on your Gemfile
<TMM_> is there anyone here who has some experience with treetop and has a moment to look at my grammar? I'm getting such weird errors when I try to add references to my grammar. The grammar works fine without the references, but I'm sure I've done something really silly but I just can't find it
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<Frederick> carloslopes: im following https://github.com/rashidkpc/Kibana
<TMM> http://ideone.com/MCQRyb <-- that is the grammar
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<Frederick> carloslopes: sorry wrong link, im following http://kibana.org/intro.html step 2
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<carloslopes> Frederick: i never used it, i think you need to add a Gemfile at the root of your project's dir, and inside the Gemfile define 'gem "kibana"'
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<Frederick> carloslopes: but the docs doesnt seem to describe it
<carloslopes> Frederick: yes, but this is the 'standard procedure'
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<carloslopes> if you want to use bundler, you need a Gemfile
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<TMM> treetop debugging is very annoying :-/
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<tgunr> Im getting an error `/opt/local/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/bundler-1.3.0/lib/bundler/runtime.rb:33:in `setup': You have already activated rack 1.5.2, but your Gemfile requires rack 1.4.5. Using bundle exec may solve this" but no diea how to use bundle exec to fix it.
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<tgunr> ok i figured out to use `bundle exec thin -D start' but how do i fix things so I dont need to use 'bundle exec' ?
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<mr-rich> Hello. Not to start a flame war or anything, but what do people prefer for creating gems? Bundler? From scratch? Another tool? I an not a beginning programer, but I am somewhat new to Ruby, so consider me an amature ... I've never created a gem before.
<Hanmac> mr-rich i use rake
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<lewis> glob('**/*') what does the two asterisks mean
<gf3> mr-rich: Once you have your gemspec written it's pretty easy to maintain manually
<gf3> lewis: It's recursive
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<lewis> gf3: can you be more explicit please
<lewis> glob('*/*')
<Hanmac> lewis ask "ri glob" or "man glob"
<gf3> lewis: It will match all files all the way down the directory tree
<gf3> lewis: Versus just the directories in the current dir
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<Hanmac> its directories all the way down :P
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<lewis> I understand that
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<apeiros_> Xeago: I finally ordered my machine :D
<lewis> I understand that ** means that it matches directories recursively somewhat but I don't understand how it's used. example glob('*') and glob('**') return the same thing
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<apeiros_> lewis: only if your directories are only 1 level deep
<apeiros_> try it in a dir with nested dirs
<lewis> glob('*/*') return the files in the current folder and the direct subsequent folders
<apeiros_> if you want superfun, try glob('/**/*') vs glob('/*/*') :-p
<lewis> glob('**/*') return the files in the current folder and all the way down in the directories hierarchy
* slash_nick is globbing diring and finding all over the place today
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<slash_nick> apeiros_: what sort of machine did you get?
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<Eiam> wow, why is my google chrome.app 2 GB jesus
<lewis> apeiros_: did you try
<apeiros_> slash_nick: my first windows machine ever. gaming. sabertooth x79, i7 3820, gtx 660 ti
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<slash_nick> ah scary, have fun with it! don't code on it it's bad for your health
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<slash_nick> blood pressure, quality of life, etc
<apeiros_> coding on windows?
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<apeiros_> do I seriously make that masochistic impression?
<lewis> >> Dir.glob('**').length # 7
<lewis> >> Dir.glob('*').length # 7
<lewis> >> Dir.glob('**/*').length # 17
<eval-in> lewis => 3 (http://eval.in/13183)
<eval-in> lewis => 3 (http://eval.in/13184)
<eval-in> lewis => 3 (http://eval.in/13184)
<lewis> >> Dir.glob('*/*').length # 10
<eval-in> lewis => 0 (http://eval.in/13185)
<Hanmac> apeiros_ does my 386er count too? :P
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: count in what regard?
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<Hanmac> "my first windows machine ever." my was an 386er
<apeiros_> if it ran windows, it counts
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<apeiros_> even if it was windows 1.0
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<slash_nick> >> res = [];Dir.glob('**').each {|x| Dir.glob('**/*').include?(x) ? res << true : res << false};res
<Hanmac> yeah it was an 3.1
<eval-in> slash_nick => [true, true, true] (http://eval.in/13186)
<apeiros_> I mean what'd be the excuse? "That windows version was crap"? Then nobody ever ran windows :-p
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<Hanmac> apeiros_ with QuickBasic .. my first language i programmed :P
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<slash_nick> >> res = [];Dir.glob('*').each {|x| Dir.glob('**/*').include?(x) ? res << true : res << false};res
<eval-in> slash_nick => [true, true, true] (http://eval.in/13187)
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<lewis> slash_nick: It depends on your current directory state
<slash_nick> lewis: yeeeeah I should've taken the hint when eval-in returned 3,3,3... I'm playing locally now
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<josefrichter_> hi, what's the proper way of testing whether a float is greater than another float AND smaller than yet another float? is there a "shortcut", please? using ranges or something?
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<Spooner> josefrichter_, x.between?(y, z) Though that is inclusive. of the end-points.
* apeiros_ wonders whether that should ever matter with floats
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<Spooner> Oh, that is true, I suppose.
<josefrichter_> Spooner nice! inclusive is ok, thanks
<apeiros_> I'm really wondering
<apeiros_> I'm quite not sure about that
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<Hanmac> hmmmm i recently find out that "unless" Is NOT equal to "if not" ... if someone is interested
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: only if you mess up priority
<apeiros_> s/priority/precedence/
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<Hanmac> apeiros_ no, if i mess up with the "!" method :P
<lewis> Hanmac: unless "it's true"
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: not uses the ! method too?
<Spooner> Hanmac, "unless bleh" is equal to "if not (bleh)" surely?
<apeiros_> evil…
<Hanmac> apeiros_ "not" used the "!" method, but "unless" does not :P
<apeiros_> I still think allowing the definition of ! is inconsistent and bad
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: i agree, did matz give any reason why he allowed it?
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<apeiros_> banisterfiend: pressure from testing frameworks like rspec
<apeiros_> at least that was my impression
<lewis> I disagree
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<apeiros_> + "I'm sure people will do the right thing"
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<lewis> unless and ! have their place, people process words differently in their head
<apeiros_> lewis: you're missing the point
<lewis> .
<apeiros_> >> o = "foo"; def o.!; "BAR"; end; !o
<eval-in> apeiros_ => "BAR" (http://eval.in/13190)
<apeiros_> *this* is why `unless` and `if not` can differ. because people can redefine what `not` actually does
<apeiros_> that's inconsistent and thus IMO bad
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<xrq> redefining not sounds like a horrible hack
<apeiros_> s/sounds like/IS/
<slash_nick> unless sucks.... "unless ; else;" <- need i say more?
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<lewis> apeiros_: well peope can redefine almost anything in ruby
<apeiros_> slash_nick: unless is nice, especially inline. but I wouldn't ever use it with an else clause.
<lewis> so In your opinion it's bad
<slash_nick> inline it's okay
<slash_nick> apeiros_: using it anyway other than inline, you're setting yourself up for someone to come behind you adding elsif else clauses
<apeiros_> lewis: keyword "almost" which you throw like it wouldn't mean anything is pretty important there.
<Hanmac> hmm overwritting the "!" method is totaly evil ... i got "Maybe IRB bug!" :D
<apeiros_> lewis: there's a good reason *some* things can't be redefined.
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<lewis> now we're going in philosophical territory
<lewis> ! doe not bother me
<lewis> does*
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<shevy> lewis it can be a problem if 100000 people use 100000000 different things
<lewis> as far as im concerned
<shevy> like, fragmentation
<shevy> I like that I can use "?" as part of the method name
<shevy> if cat.alive?
<shevy> slay(cat)
<lewis> it can be a problem if 100000 people use 1 unique thing
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<shevy> Why? When it is standardized? That seems awesome man
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<banisterfiend> lewis: we can redefine most things in ruby, but there should still be some basic things that any code can rely on. IMO the behaviour of ! should be one of them
<shevy> "abc ".strip
<lewis> lack of flexibility
<apeiros_> lewis: it doesn't bother you because almost nobody actually does redefine it. So chance is slim that you will be bitten. I'm pretty sure it will bother you should you be bitten by it.
<apeiros_> And I'd wager that should you ever be bitten by it, the redefinition of ! was for no good reason.
<lewis> banisterfiend: exactly! my point
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<xrq> banisterfiend: if does serve as a good sanity check of the developers. if you discover that ! has been redefined then you easily know you shouldn't use that code
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<banisterfiend> lewis: no...my point is inline with apeiros_'s :) I dont think ! should allow multiple definitions
<apeiros_> xrq: indeed
<lewis> banisterfiend: oops i meant apeiros_ my point! it does not bother me. period
<apeiros_> xrq: truly horrible code monkey patches all core classes by removing all their methods :D
<banisterfiend> lewis: then you're probably just not thinking hard enough :)
<lewis> banisterfiend: I guess I'm not the only one- including those who thought it best to leave it open to being redefined
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<apeiros_> that much is obvious, yes
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<lewis> it's astonished me how you guys are sounds absolute in your reasoning
<lewis> lol im losing my english in the process
<banisterfiend> lewis: can you think of an actual use case for it?
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<lewis> banisterfiend: flexibility. when you have bang method named with !, maybe you want ! to mean something else too..
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<lewis> banisterfiend: again im just saying it does not bother me
<banisterfiend> lewis: what?
<xrq> banisterfiend: the psychology part of a job interview? ;)
<banisterfiend> lewis: can you show an example of that?
<aedorn> so much python ... so little vicodin
* apeiros_ suspects lewis doesn't understand what ! actually does…
<apeiros_> this isn't about foo! bang methods
<lewis> lol
<banisterfiend> xrq: well, if you're going to add a crazy feature the use-cases should be cool in proportion to the craziness IMO :) if you can't think of something 'cool' in proportion to the craziness then it shouldn't be introduced
<lewis> ask me to repeat myself
<lewis> dont assume what i meant
<lewis> im done
<lewis> it's going no where
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<banisterfiend> lewis: an you provide example code showing off that 'flexibility' you talk about? because '!' has 0 to do with 'bang methods'
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<lewis> tchip
<apeiros_> banisterfiend: lewis' whole argument is "doesn't bother me, thus s'ok"
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<banisterfiend> apeiros_: confidence of a noob who doesn't understand issues i think :)
<apeiros_> the "argument" sounded as much, yes
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<banisterfiend> redefining '!' breaks the !!obj idiom for a start
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<apeiros_> I started using obj ? true : false
<xrq> I remember in guile you could redefine *anything* including even define itself. that was fixed in later versions
<lewis> i have no patience for rudeness
<apeiros_> fugly
<Hanmac> i plan a class wich overwrites +@ and -@
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<banisterfiend> apeiros_: cool
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<banisterfiend> apeiros_: i didnt know people use g+ :)
<apeiros_> me neither
<apeiros_> I mean I'm on g+, but I haven't actually used it ever…
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<banisterfiend> redefining ~obj could be cool though
<banisterfiend> can we do that?
<banisterfiend> yeah we can, nice
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<apeiros_> I think some localization tool used String#~ to do the translation
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<Hanmac> apeiros_ what is your biggest gem you have installed?
<apeiros_> probably rails
<apeiros_> though, rails itself is I think rather small. it just has tons of dependencies.
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<Hanmac> :P ... one of my gems i have installed have > 220MB *.o files :P
<the_jeebster> wtf
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<the_jeebster> which gem is 220mb?!
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<Mon_Ouie> Rubygems doesn't get rid of those?
<apeiros_> Hanmac: parsing…
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<Hanmac> the_jeebster: the source size is 300kb ... while building *.o files are generated with combined size of more than 220MB ... and then a 50MB *.so file apears
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<Xeago> wat!!
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<Xeago> you might actually check your linker double twice over again
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: 9.4Mruby-1.9.3-p194/gems/therubyracer-0.9.9
<Hanmac> Xeago: if i strip the *.so file it implodes into an 1,1MB file :P
<Hanmac> maybe because of shame
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<Mon_Ouie> Maybe lots of C++ templates?
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: 'alut
<Mon_Ouie> 'alut
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* Hanmac looks back at a list of templates ... and template templates that use other templates and C macros that uses this templates, and macro macros that generate macros ... yeah Mon_Ouie there is many many stuff :P ... but i thy to avoid them with "visabillity hidden"
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<Eiam> argh i hate SSL
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<Eiam> there is 1 google hit for OpenSSL::SSL::SSLError - SSL_accept SYSCALL returned=5 errno=0 state=SSLv2/v3 read client hello A:
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<Eiam> I'm trying to create a ssl context & socket connection via https://gist.github.com/Eiam8821/b4a365fb4e172c6277ae
<Eiam> whenever I try to load the page in https on sinatra + thin, I get the error above
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<Eiam> any suggetions for reading material to help me figure out WTH I'm doing wrong?
<apeiros_> Xeago: should my parts arrive in time, and I manage to put the stuff together - HOTS WE?
<apeiros_> gah, saturday evening I'm out, though
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* apeiros_ off to bed, n8 guys & gals
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<Eiam> night apeiros_
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<slash_nick> Goodnight!
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<Eiam> is there etiquette for taking someones ruby gem & modifying it?
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<Eiam> just fork it on github, make your changes & gem build it?
<Eiam> are you supposed to rename it?
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<Spooner> Eiam, Depends on the license (if any).
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<banisterfiend> Eiam: well you cant push it unless you rename it
<banisterfiend> you can call a local gem whatever u want
<Eiam> MIT
<Spooner> eiam You mean for your own use or pushing a modified version?
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<Eiam> yeah I don't mean to push the changes back out
<Inside> man ruby, why you so pretentious? why not have a if not like any other language? noooo you gotta use 'unless'
<Spooner> Do what you like with it then?
<banisterfiend> Eiam: well then who cares what u call it, they're not going to be offended if you're just using it locally - esp. since they're probably never going to find out :)
<Eiam> well, we have an internal gem repo
<Eiam> like gems.blah.com
<Eiam> so "locally" means more "internally"
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<Eiam> banisterfiend: unless they work here!
<Spooner> You could always just do a push request and wait for the owner to re-release, but I'm guessing you had no luck with that.
<banisterfiend> Eiam: well, ask him then, not us :)
<Eiam> yeah i couldn't do a push request externally
<Eiam> ill just fork it
<Eiam> and rename it internally
<Eiam> like gem-featureAdded
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<Eiam> seems like the safest thing
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<gf3> Why does Ruby store integers as machine words minus one bit?
<gf3> What's that bit used for?
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<Xeago> gf3: I think bit0 is for value/reference types
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