<tay1>
is there anyway to compile ruby app into a standalone app?
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<blf>
Anyone have any idea why "jruby --server -X+C [script]" works, but "jruby --server -X+C -J-Xmx2048m [script]" fails with "Cannot find Java 1.5 or higher"?
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<Inside>
HELLO #RUBIANS. I HAVE DECIDED TO BECOME ONE OF YOU. WHAT IS THE LATEST RECOMENDED VERSION OF RUBY TO DOWNLOAD. THANK YOU.
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<`p>
Download the newest.
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<Inside>
2.0.0 or 1.9.3? I'm not sure if it's a python like thing where 2.7 and 3.2 (3.3?) are almost different languages
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<shevy>
Inside 1.9.x paved the way to 2.0
<shevy>
so 2.0 should be used
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<Inside>
I guess this is more of a RoR question since that's what I want to learn how to use eventually, but no difference in downloading 2.0 and stuff vs. RoR, right?
<Inside>
(I don't know much about .. well.. anything ruby related)
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<`p>
Inside if you are following a rails tutorial guide like mhartls download the one the book requires
<`p>
if i were you i'd download rvm
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<`p>
grab rvm and follow the installation guide that makes it easy to manage ruby environments, i woudl say its nearly a must
<`p>
to use rvm to manage ruby versions alogn with rails
<Inside>
Well I read this "Rails is a web application framework running on the Ruby programming language. If you have no prior experience with Ruby, you will find a very steep learning curve diving straight into Rails. There are some good free resources on the internet for learning Ruby, including:" about RoR so I figured I'd start with ruby before getting on the rails
<`p>
pretty much everyone uses rvm, those that do not use rvm use rubyenv, i feel rvm is better.
<`p>
Here inside, pm
<Inside>
okie doke
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<Inside>
Pdppt. I actually wonder if ruby/ror is where I want to go.
<Inside>
I was thinking of maing a browser-based MUD-like game, except with minor graphics... but I don't know the first thing about web-stuff
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<breakingthings>
That sounds like mostly javascript.
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<Inside>
Right, but wouldn't ruby be used to handle server-end stuff?
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<breakingthings>
yes indeed
<breakingthings>
the balance of js to serverside would depend on your game
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<Inside>
Hmmm
<breakingthings>
graphics and such would be all js.
<Inside>
Well, have you played MUDs?
<breakingthings>
(and html/css)
* Inside
hisses.
<breakingthings>
no, I haven't, but I know what it is.
<breakingthings>
You would likely be doing connectivity stuff via rubby.
<breakingthings>
to maintain game state.
<Inside>
Hmmm
<Inside>
I guess I don't even know what spot to dive in!
<aedornm>
Rails wouldn't make much sense for a MUD
<breakingthings>
aedorn: a web service wouldn't really make much sense
<Inside>
aedorn: well not really a MUD
<Inside>
Have you played kingdom of loathing?
<nga4>
just write a mud game like mud games used to be written
<aedornm>
breakingthings: Nonsense!
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<Inside>
I suppose at first it would be just a very simple html-page with nothing fancy -- just various buttons that could be hit to perform actions. Eventually add in very minor graphics to spice up the interface so it's not all text-based.
<breakingthings>
aedornm: I mean, you -can- do it, but it would be messy
<breakingthings>
it would be easier to have an open connection
<breakingthings>
like a streaming server
<breakingthings>
or WEBSOCKS
<breakingthings>
because socks deserve to be on the web
<breakingthings>
just like the other underwebs
<Inside>
aren't sockets not supported by all browsers?
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<breakingthings>
there's quite a few ways you can do it
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<breakingthings>
just not really too well with a static web service
<breakingthings>
because you'd have AJAX mess errywhere
<breakingthings>
so you'd have to websocks or streaming server or...
<Inside>
flash or something?
<breakingthings>
but yes, it is possible.
* breakingthings
shrugs
<breakingthings>
I assume there should be a way that involves js
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<Inside>
Poo.
<breakingthings>
just not particularly well done with ajax
<breakingthings>
flash is a pain but you can use it
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<breakingthings>
but then you're working with flash
<breakingthings>
so you might as well give up at that point
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<aedornm>
so much flash hate =p
<Inside>
:P
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<breakingthings>
eh, there are just better ways to do it these days.
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<breakingthings>
flash would just make it heftier.
<Inside>
I've never seen a flash app that didn't lag like crazy on my ancient PC
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<breakingthings>
especially for something like a MUD which isn't graphic intensive
<Inside>
hrmm
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<Inside>
Yeah, wouldn't be graphic intensive at all. Graphics would definitely be involved, but I'm not sure to what degree.
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<breakingthings>
probably limited to map, with possible art for interaction or whatever.
<breakingthings>
regardless
<Inside>
yup, pretty much
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<breakingthings>
you're gonna have to figure out what approach you want to take
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<Inside>
Although some streaming of information about things like HP or when you can make the next special attack, etc, would be paramount.
<breakingthings>
i would suggest you do some research on websockets with js and see if that will work
<breakingthings>
shouldn't need to stream all of that
<breakingthings>
mostly position and HPs
<breakingthings>
clients can do the rest
<Inside>
True true
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<breakingthings>
if websocks don't work out for what you need (I think they probably should, but I've never used them so who knows), you might be able to fall back to a streaming server that interfaces with JS, or sumthin.
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<breakingthings>
or maybe both, who the hell knows.
<breakingthings>
I don't.
<Inside>
christ, may be over my head here.
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<breakingthings>
Interbutt streaming is a toughy
<breakingthings>
I tried a streaming service once
<breakingthings>
the streaming bit was the hardest part
<breakingthings>
eventually put it on the back burner
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<A124>
Hey. I'm looking for an SQL/NoSQL database that can run as a part of ruby / standalone server with some decent memory limit of around 50MB. Would you give any advice what to look at? :)
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<Funcoot_>
I get an error that says name is an undefined method, but I don't know why it is returning that
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<Boohbah>
Funcoot_: Shores.name is calling the name method but you haven't defined a name method. look into attr_accessor to define methods based on instance variables
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<Funcoot_>
I finally realized that. Rookie mistake, thank you Boohbah for pointing that out to me.
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<A124>
Hey. I'm looking for an SQL/NoSQL database that can run as a part of ruby / standalone server with some decent memory limit of around 50MB. Would you give any advice what to look at? :)
<xcv>
A124: What do you mean by a 50MB memory limit?
<xcv>
Do you mean that your dataset won't exceed 50MB in size?
<`p>
thats how I read it xcv.
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<xcv>
A124: In that case, you should be able to cache almost everything and use the database mostly as persistent storage.
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<xcv>
Postgresql is a solid SQL DB. For a small dataset, the differences between SQL and NOSQL mostly boil down to how you want to represent and query your data.
<`p>
Probably has a max size of database available
<`p>
err a 50mb max size of database allowed
<xcv>
(of course there are other differences, as in ACID)
<xcv>
like a limit imposed by a cloud provider or the like?
<Funcoot_>
Boohbah: I was wondering what you're suggestion would be to automatically add each instance of Resort to the Pstore. http://pastebin.com/MHSatWjN
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<Funcoot_>
So say I create 5 different instances of it, I don't have to go ResortList[Shores.name] = Shores ResortList[Boardwalk.name] = Boardwalk
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<Funcoot_>
etc
<A124>
xcv, `p: Yeah I have no limit. It's memory limis not storage. As I'd like to have it not resource hungry. Also the dataset is simple but querries of type, find duplicate values in colmn X, where Y >20. The rows are to be in milions
<Funcoot_>
Boohbah, I was thinking of making an array of the instances of the Resort class, then making a for loop that goes through each element, makes a transaction for each element and adding it to the pstore, but that sounds really inefficient
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<xcv>
A124: Tight RAM limits will slow any database system down, not sure how feasible it is to run queries on such a large dataset with so little RAM... But Postgresql can go as low as 32MB
<xcv>
but you'd probably be better off checking out the freenode channels for each of the major databases and ask around there
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<A124>
xcv, `p: The memory limit is not mandatory, but would be appreciated to have a smaller footprint. Transactions per second are not much of an issue, if I'm able to querry the DB. I'm open to any suggestions. I'll probably will develop the system based on sqlite3, then move onto something else. But the querry /sort ability of the DB as well other parts are better to be known in advance
<bnagy>
do not develop on sqlite
<bnagy>
unless you are an insane lunatic
<bnagy>
it's a pile of shit
<A124>
Calm down!
<A124>
Develop, not use
<ddd>
you should be developing using the same db as what you'll run in production
<ddd>
so if you're not going to use sqlite3 in prod, don't use it in dev
<bnagy>
it's large amounts of work to move from crapqlite to a real db
<A124>
ddd: That's why ask about DB now :P
<bnagy>
just dev on your target db
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<A124>
I'm developing now only the non DB related code primarily
<bnagy>
relational queries across 'millions' of rows you need an SQL db imho
<`p>
i agree ^
<bnagy>
so the only two really worth looking at aer mysql and postgresql
<bnagy>
imvho postgres is Just Better
<ddd>
(or oracle depending)
<bnagy>
btu I am not a dba
<ddd>
though I'm a postgresql fan myself
<xcv>
A124: I can recommend Postgresql (we use it at my company) as a relational DB,
<`p>
i was gonna say postgresql from the start but was waiting to see what everyone else said i'm not that experienced
<xcv>
one great thing postgresql has is a transactional DDL
<A124>
I was at the birth of ArangoDB (AvocadoDB) and I think it's capable. But as for versatility and ease of deployment I'm looking for others :) I'll check postresl definitely, thanks xcv :)
<xcv>
which is great when you have a huge dataset
<xcv>
no prob!
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<xcv>
the dudes in the postgresql channel know much more than I do, of course
<xcv>
but I think I can safely say it's technically very solid and people are generally satisfied with it in production
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<A124>
Btw: sqlite3 is nice.
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<bnagy>
no.
<A124>
Nothing to worry about, although it's a crap, when you just focus on the rest and no devel on DB side yet. Except storing data
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<ddd>
xcv: plus its compliance levels within the sql standards world is better than most others, including mysql.
<A124>
mssql is best
<A124>
(just kidding)
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<ddd>
anyways, as fast as i came out the dark, i shall fade back into it. time to rack out for the night. night all
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<A124>
ddd: Good night, sir!
<xcv>
good night!
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<cads>
hey guys, what is the difference between the ruby channel and the ruby-lang channel?
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<banisterfiend>
cads: people ask less daft questions on #ruby-lang
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<cads>
banisterfiend: heh
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<ohno`>
agrillio mellish. Blakes my bog. kedda mah go go
<ohno`>
mageezik Does anyone heck teck the rooga beega bagga?
<ohno`>
Hebber master hoon a ferr fee. Hilly a mackhole.
<ohno`>
The shiny dot in the middle of a liddle
<ohno`>
light, of the middle of a lep lep lains!
<ohno`>
Gotta get that schit ass shcrap biteoad. Ruproudj a
<ohno`>
malef loo Moistie bather. riberian schmecklef Mulla Malee loo
<ohno`>
lup the new flood wars. Chuddy dip, chuddy dip,
<ohno`>
E _ ( q 2 n o ( C % C s ( > L K 3 p V t . r K > Y $ \ H " i U Y b f E N } < - : V m / b 3 G R
<ohno`>
Q _ e n
<ohno`>
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<lushious>
cool story brah
<ohno`>
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<Nightmare>
naughty little girl
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<shaman42>
any ops around, kick that butt pirate outta here.
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<lushious>
thanks
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<shaman42>
what did he try to achieve with that spam?
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<banisterfiend>
i think it was some monkeys trying to write shakespear
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<hemanth>
:D
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<lushious>
looked like php syntax to me
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<Apes>
Rubygems is extremely frustrating. It feels to me like rubygems is package manager for people who can't be bothered to use existing platform package managers.
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<A124>
Apes: huH?
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<Quadlex>
Yeah, I second that huh
<A124>
So you make trilions of packages for all platforms and die in the meantime?
<A124>
Or make one that compiles self on all platforms?
<epochwolf>
Apes: and how would ruby work on OS X and Windows?
<A124>
*Nobrains*
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<A124>
Also packages by distros are for ease of use. So you don't have to have headers, build tools and such. So you can install most commonly used package with ease. You should be thankful for that. Not complaining about one o the other, I guess :P
<Apes>
True - It might provide a one size fits all solution. But Rubygems combined with Yum or Apt results in some amazing dependency nightmares.
<A124>
Apes: Why would you combine?
<A124>
Cause of feeling doing sht to complain bout?
<A124>
:D
<Apes>
Because I would like to use more than just Ruby...
<A124>
Yep, you just made no sense...
<A124>
I get what you mean... That's avoidable easily.
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<Apes>
That's easily said, but I haven't found an easy path.
<Apes>
Bundler kind of works, but it's a complex tool.
<Apes>
It's certainly not "easy"
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<Apes>
I guess if your workflow is "I wrote the code and it works on my machine, now Operations can deal with it."
<Apes>
Then it might be easy
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<A124>
Apes: Nope. Then you have poor system in your company or so.
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<epochwolf>
A124: ruby really makes the traditional seperation between devs and ops hard to maintain
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<epochwolf>
A124: give that kind of environment, I would probably just go with jruby and sling war files over the fence.
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<Funcoot_>
Can anyone explain to me why the data from the class gets dumped to the file, but when I try to read it, it just returns nil?
<nobitanobi>
I love Ruby. I love its community, and I want to give back what they have given to me. What would be a good way to start "collaborating" to Ruby open source projects?
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<Funcoot_>
Ah okay, I understand now how I might use them
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<Funcoot_>
bnagy: thank you for your help I really appreciate it
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<bnagy>
np
<Funcoot_>
nobitanobi, the Shoes team is looking for mac users if you are a mac user, to help develop their library
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<nobitanobi>
Funcoot_, Ubuntu here :(
<Funcoot_>
Ah, me too :(
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<trend>
what is wrong w/ this sprint? puts "here is %s %s" % "a " "test"
<trend>
I get 'ArgumentError: too few arguments'
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<Arafangion>
Do we have a 'rake' channel here?
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<Arafangion>
I am wondering if anyone might have at hand a 'best practices' article about using rake?
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<Funcoot_>
Arafanqion: Can you elaborate? What do you mean you don't need to compare symboles?
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Given two variables, 'a' and 'b', and given that they are strings, how would you compare them?
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Would you have to check each character to ensure that they're the same?
<hoelzro>
misc[]: I believe you may not
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<hoelzro>
you need to override +
<Funcoot_>
I guess you wouldn't?
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Why wouldn't you?
<bnagy>
Arafangion: Hash doesn't work that way, btw, but I'm assuming you're being didactic
<Funcoot_>
I mean.. you can't compare 'a' and 'b' they're letters
<Funcoot_>
Unless I am grossly misunderstanding you
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<bnagy>
I always assumed += was sugar, but I am too lazy to check :P
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: ``a'', and ``b'', then, I meant that they were names, not that they were actual ruby code.
<hoelzro>
bnagy: it is
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<Arafangion>
bnagy: Yeah, Hash works on object identity, doesn't it?
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<Funcoot_>
I'm still not following unfortunately Arafangion. I'm sorry
<bnagy>
Arafangion: well lookup with string keys wouldn't work then :)
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Lets have a real example, then: a = someValue(); b = someOtherValue()
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<Funcoot_>
Yes
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: How would you compare 'a' and 'b', there?
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<Funcoot_>
erm, I'm not sure by what you mean compare :(
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<Funcoot_>
I'm only a few days into learning ruby. I'm sorry
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: How would you know if 'a' and 'b' were the same, or different value?
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<Funcoot_>
if a == b
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<Funcoot_>
<stuff>
<Funcoot_>
end
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Lets think about how that could work on the hardware. How might the hardware do that computation?
<Funcoot_>
I'm sorry, but I'm still not sure
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Well, lets suppose that: a = "hello", and b = "world".
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Are 'a' and 'b' the same there?
<Funcoot_>
alright
<Funcoot_>
no
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Why not?
<Funcoot_>
they're different strings
<Funcoot_>
hello is not the same as world
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<Funcoot_>
They are the same length though.. so maybe they are the same?
<Funcoot_>
byte wise?'
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: To a computer, *everything* is bytes.
<Funcoot_>
so they're the same
<Funcoot_>
?
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<Funcoot_>
or no because they're different characters
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<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Each character has it's own byte sequence, it is almost a 1 to 1 mapping, "hello" would be interpreted as a list of mere numbers to the computer.
<Funcoot_>
hmm alright
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<Funcoot_>
so they would be different
<Funcoot_>
and not equal to eachother
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<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Correct. If they have different bytes, they would certainly be different values, by the same reasoning that two numbers, 42 and 43, are different numbers.
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<Funcoot_>
I see
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: But some languages use a LOT of strings, it can be tedious for the computer to have to check the values all the time.
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Especially if they never change.
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<Funcoot_>
ahhhhh
<Funcoot_>
So that is why if I'm going to use something that doesn't change, it'd be better to use a symbol
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<Funcoot_>
name: instead of "name"
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: :name, instead of 'name', indeed.
<Funcoot_>
Arafangion: thank you for that walkthrough
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<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: But please, please worry more about what that means to the programmer. Don't make the decision merely because it's faster.
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<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: Use symbols when it makes _sense_ to use them, that is, when you want to say: "This is a symbol, the value of which never changes".
<alex88>
hi guys, should I use the File class to do something like "rm filebasename_*"?
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<Funcoot_>
Arafangion: Yes, I've seen too many programming threads devolve into stupid arguments
<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: (Don't take that too literally, either - you can chagne the value of symbols, but the point is that you want to use it as a 'symbol', a value that represents a string)
<Funcoot_>
It seems that there are 100 different ways to do one thing, and everyone thinks they have the best way to do it
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<Arafangion>
Funcoot_: That's another discussion. :)
<Funcoot_>
hahaha
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<Funcoot_>
Anyways, I'm off to bed
<Funcoot_>
goodnight all
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<bnagy>
alex88: FileUtils might be what you're looking for
<alex88>
thanks bnagy, I'll look into that
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<marwinism>
uhm, webricks is running, but I can't reach any of my pages? any ideas on what it might be?
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<marwinism>
nevermind. it works on localhost, and not outside. fudge.
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<maasha>
Hi, I have made a mess of different versions of ruby installs. Now I am going old school and want to delete everything ruby 1.9.1 and only run 1.9.3. So I did, but bundle still install stuff in /usr/local/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1/ ?\
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<bnagy>
maasha: that's 'normal' afaik
<bnagy>
it refers to some spec version or something, not to your actual ruby version
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<maasha>
bnagy: so surprising is 'normal' for ruby now :o) ?
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<bnagy>
everything is surprising when you don't know how things work
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<maasha>
bnagy: where is a good place to read on this? I am always confused about gem and ruby versions
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<Arafangion>
maasha: Forget about gem versions, learn bundler. :)
<maasha>
I can google myself, but if you have some good clue ...
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<bnagy>
maasha: I would just be googling, sorry
<maasha>
Arafangion: well, this mess came with the onboard ruby1.8 - another ruby installed with xcode - another installed with macport - then some with rvm ... NO MORE!
<Arafangion>
maasha: Well, first... Don't touch your system ruby. That version is sacred.
<maasha>
so I wiped everything (ongoing - you find ruby files the most unexpected places) - and manual configure, compile and install.
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<maasha>
Arafangion: anything ruby 1.8 should be shot and killed.
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<Arafangion>
maasha: Incorrect.
<Arafangion>
maasha: Why?
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<bnagy>
maasha: you might want to look into chruby, or rbenv
<bnagy>
chruby is probably a better choice going forward, but rbenv works fine
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<bnagy>
they're both much simpler and more unixy than rvm
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<marwinism>
Does Sinatra/webricks have a config somewhere that tells it what interfaces to use, and hosts and so on?
<bnagy>
which is, imho, batshit insane
<Hanmac>
ruby1.8 is outdated and in a few month it dont get any patches anymroe
<Arafangion>
Hanmac: But it's in the base system.
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<Arafangion>
If you get scripts specifying ruby 1.8, they should continue to work.
<maasha>
Arafangion: system updates keep making the systems ruby default replacing any 1.9 you have installed (at least on my mac). and then new gem installs break. especially RubyInline.
<Hanmac>
Arafangion that is not a excluse ... than the system should update this version ... and if the system is to dump for that, then the user have the problem
<bnagy>
I'm with Hanmac ( for once ), kill 1.8 with fire
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<Arafangion>
Hanmac: Well, you could update the system to a newer Ruby by sending a bit of cash Apple's way.
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<maasha>
bnagy: in that case you are with me and yet again (I presume) against Hanmac
<maasha>
no, sorry
<maasha>
me is messing up names
<bnagy>
:>
<Arafangion>
But seriously, if you're using a newer ruby, such as 1.9 or 2.0, why are you even slightly concerned about the system ruby? Or heck, python for that matter.
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<maasha>
I hope the transition to ruby2.0 is faring better ...
<Hanmac>
ubuntu has allready ruby1.9 as default, even debian will follow in next versions
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<Hanmac>
Arafangion: they only remove stuff that was allready deplicated in 1.8
<rdark>
Hanmac: debian testing/unstable have had 1.9 for couple of years now
<Hanmac>
rdark yeah as package, but as ruby-defaults too?
<maasha>
Arafangion: I just had this install fail because it was using a version of bundle that had a shebang pointing to /opt/bin/ruby1.9 - where the correct would be /usr/local/bin/ruby
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<maasha>
And why they simply dont use /usr/bin/env ruby is a mystery to me. that is the closest you get to a defacto standard.
<Arafangion>
maasha: They wanted a specific version, and didn't know how.
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<rdark>
Hanmac: yep. They have meta packages for 1.8 as well if that's needed
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<rdark>
ubuntu is generally speaking downstream of debian unstable
* Arafangion
twitches.
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<Hanmac>
rdark yeah, debian has that since wheezy
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<Arafangion>
Debian squeeze is 1.8.7
<rdark>
Debian stable will still be on 1.8.7, as will RHEL + clones
<rdark>
yep
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<Arafangion>
And if I were to install a newer ruby, I'd put it in /opt, and leave the system ruby well alone.
* Hanmac
wonders when debian will have ruby2.0 packs
<Arafangion>
It would cease to be relevant.
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<Hanmac>
Arafan you could also install it in /usr/local
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<rdark>
Arafangion: +1. RVM is what I tend to do when dealing with 'stable' distros
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<Arafangion>
Hanmac: Maybe.
<Arafangion>
Hanmac: I'd prefer /opt.
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<Arafangion>
Hanmac: /opt/ruby1.9, to be precise.
<Hanmac>
the ruby i installed into /usr/local is trunk :P
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<Arafangion>
Ok, Debian unstable's still at ruby 1.9.3, I think.
<maasha>
One thing I for sure will not recommend is to have several versions half installed/removed at surprising locations
<Arafangion>
Hanmac: ANd how will you delete that when the whim arises?
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<bnagy>
are we honestly doing opt vs usr local?
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<Hanmac>
Arafangion: there is an "make uninstall"
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<Arafangion>
Hanmac: You can't count on that, although maybe you can for ruby.
<marwinism>
I just noticed i have 1.8, 1.9.1, and ruby -v said 2.0.0.. it's time to clean up.
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<maasha>
marwinism: at least you should supplement 1.9.1 with 1.9.3 - perhaps even replace.
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<Arafangion>
bnagy: Sorry, former LFS user here, I couldn't resist. :(
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<artm>
which gem provides similar API to coffescripts object?.field ?
<marwinism>
maasha: i'm yanking it all out, and reinstalling with 1.9.3, or just 2.0.0
<Hanmac>
artm .. do you mean in rails or in general ruby?
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<lampe2>
hey i want to read all http post that come to a specific port right now iam uesing tcpserver but i cant get any information from the client like the header or body! can someone give me a hint ?
<Hanmac>
lampe2 rails question?
<lampe2>
hanmac pure ruby
<lampe2>
so no rails questions
<hoelzro>
lampe2: you have a TCP server listening for HTTP requests, but you want to parse the incoming bytes into an HTTP request?
<lampe2>
hoelzro: iam getting http post to a specific port and i wanne just print that request to the terminal
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<hoelzro>
lampe2: could you paste the code you're using to listen for requests?
<marwinism>
Sinatra starts on port 4567, but from the outside I can't access it. Just went thru all the config files, and bindAddress is set to 'nil', port is set to 'nil'. I totally stuck
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<csmrfx>
also you have freemat and R in debian repos
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<maasha>
But the reason why R is awful is because it should be a befitting punishment for doing statistics in the first place
<maasha>
lies, damn lies and statistics
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* maasha
would like to see statisticians design a space rocket and try to fly the result
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<csmrfx>
Let's be fair
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<csmrfx>
Medicine and agriculture, not to mention empirical science owes everything to the stuff statisticians came up between 17th and 20th century
* csmrfx
Whats really awful about R is it's name. Just try to find it in debian repos by searching for "R"
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<maasha>
csmrfx: like C ?
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<csmrfx>
R language gets 3517 lines of results, C language only 3513
<Xeago>
wow, those 4 results make the difference
<csmrfx>
8F
<maasha>
but is that significant ?
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<maasha>
statistically ....
<Hanmac>
i only have seen R in the list of languages that are supported for syntax highlighting ... i never did see R-code in "reallife"
<csmrfx>
I dont know, I cant calc the mean error probability for "wc -l" cause I cant install R
<Xeago>
csmrfx: you don't need r for that, that is math
<maasha>
go to r-lang.org, download and compile
<csmrfx>
Zed sed R's a-ok
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<maasha>
r-project.org that is
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<krainboltgreene>
I need a library that gives me an interface to a key value store, abstracts it so I can use redis, memcached, or ruby hash. Anyone got any ideas?
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<banisterfiend>
Hanmac: R has good and bad features, bad: OO is a mess and bolted on, good: inbuilt mathematical datastructures and really nice functions for pulling data out of a structure
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<pseudonymous>
I'm hoping to write some code that needs to function just like File.open w. a block does - ie if an exception is raised, a method or so of mine is run to clean up before the script continues. I'm drawing a blank as to what I should search for in regards to blocks to make this happen
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<MrZYX>
pseudonymous: begin; yield; rescue; cleanup; raise; end
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<ged>
Anyone have any advice on how to deal with wchar_t strings in a Ruby C extension?
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<Voting>
https://coderwall.com/p/_-_mha <- is this the best thing I can read to help me understand, deeply, closures vs. block vs. Proc vs. lambda vs. method vs... whatever else there is that is of like these? Or what SHOULD I read. Working my way though Well Grounded book... still weak in this area.
<banisterfiend>
Voting: honestly that explanation looks confused and messed up
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<banisterfiend>
Voting: read it in the book IMO
<Voting>
the book?
<banisterfiend>
that book is probably ok, but the one i really liked was 'the ruby programming language' by flanagan and matz
<banisterfiend>
Voting: the book you frikkin mentioned ;)
<Voting>
banisterfiend: which pages?
<banisterfiend>
Voting: ah, ok the ruby programming language?
<banisterfiend>
of*
<banisterfiend>
one sec ill check
<Voting>
tx!
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<banisterfiend>
Voting: im on kindle, but location 5075 looks to be it
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<banisterfiend>
Voting: but seriously if you just google for it you should find a tonne of great explanations, esp on stackoverflow
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<Voting>
Of the dave thomus book, banisterfiend?
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<banisterfiend>
i dont know that book very well, but im sure it's good
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<Voting>
banisterfiend: which book are YOU talking about?
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<Voting>
Plus of implicit blocks... that I'm finding confusing.
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<AltGrendel>
Heading home for the meeting, see you soon.
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<kapowaz>
I was using this gem in a project (http://rubygems.org/gems/time-ago-in-words) — anyone know what happened to it or what is a good alternative? This is not a rails app, fwiw
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<bean>
i just use
<bean>
require 'action_view'
<bean>
include ActionView::Helpers::DateHelper
<bean>
and then distance_of_time_in_words( is available
<bean>
kinda hacky
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<aedorn>
ChronicDuration
<aedorn>
or just Chronic depending... can't even see what that time-ago-in-words gem does!
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<kapowaz>
bean: yeah, see — it's *not* a Rails app
<bean>
aware.
<kapowaz>
so I don't want to get into the business of including all that other actionview crap just to get time string formatting
<kapowaz>
I'm consciously not including those things
<kapowaz>
looks like time-lord is the thing I need now though
<bean>
chronicduration looks nice
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<aedorn>
I like it!
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<axl_>
i want to call a 'to_i' on the values of a hash if the value is not nil, and have the values change permanently in the hash. is that doable?
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<Wardje>
So I have someone's rails project. To properly set up the db's tables (I have already created a db and a user with appropriate access), do I have to run `rake db:migrate` or something else? (Forgive the possible silliness of the question, not much of a ruby/rails user and either I'm googling badly or this information isn't out there properly)
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<reactormonk>
enricostn, maybe timecop can do that
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<reactormonk>
enricostn, sometimes I miss (flet)
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<axl_>
Hanmac: you wrote code sometime ago that involved passing underscore to the update method of a hash
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<axl_>
where i can i get information about how passing underscore in ruby as argument is handled and when it should be used?
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<reactormonk>
axl_, code sample?
<havenwood>
axl_: The convention is to use an underscore for a parameter that isn't thereafter used.
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<reactormonk>
havenwood, where is that actually useful? Except in blocks?
<axl_>
havenwood: this is what you did: my_hash.update(my_hash) {|_,val,_| val ? val.to_i : val}
<axl_>
i have never come across passing underscore as an argument before
<havenwood>
axl_: It is in the Github manual of style.
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<axl_>
is there a place i can read about it?
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<axl_>
or is it just programming convention
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<havenwood>
reactormonk: I did read in 2.0 change log that when run with warnings enabled, a variable beginning with _ will not raise a warning if that variable is assigned and then never used.
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<havenwood>
axl_: I think it is idiomatic Ruby. I can't think of anywhere it is discussed. Typically style guides just say something like: "Use _ for unused block parameters."
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<axl_>
ok thanks
<havenwood>
# bad; result = hash.map { |k, v| v + 1 }
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<havenwood>
# good; result = hash.map { |_, v| v + 1 }
<shevy>
now I know there is a way to specify that via those format thingies... with sprintf() and so on
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<shevy>
but is there not a much simpler way to do that?
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<shevy>
I always have to look it up before I can use it :(
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<gf3>
shevy: There are a few table formatter libraries
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<shevy>
hmm but how do you guys do it? I feel it always comes back again and again, and somehow I struggle with that more than I think I should, it feels easier to hard-align by doing the ' ' padding for small tables, rather than using %-3d or something like that
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<aaronmcadam>
anybody know how to use one connection with HTTParty and then close it when done? I'm sending multiple requests in a loop
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<DaniG2k>
guys if I have a class Var that when initialized sets @s
<DaniG2k>
and then if I do v = Var.new("a")
<DaniG2k>
I get => #<Var:0x000001010b1e20 @s="a">
<DaniG2k>
how can I access that @s instnace variable?
<gf3>
shevy: Honestly, ruby's string formatting is so nice and easy to use I usually just use that
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<Harlin>
trying to understand private methods... calling one from an inside same class http://pastebin.com/YCXGQRwk any ideas why i may be getting this error?
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<gf3>
Harlin: `do` is a keyword to start a block
<gf3>
Harlin: Try renaming it to `run` or something similar
<Scudelletti>
DaniG2K u can get the var using Var.new('a').instance_variable_get(:@s)
<DaniG2k>
aha
<DaniG2k>
thanks
<gf3>
Harlin: Oh you already have a `run`, just name it something else
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<Harlin>
oh crud
<Harlin>
thanks gf3
<Harlin>
funny that i ran into that same issue with php :-\
<Harlin>
shoulda known that.
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<shevy>
gf3 hmm yeah, but you dont have to look the rules up? have you memorized them all?
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<gf3>
shevy: I use them pretty often
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<gf3>
shevy: But you could easily roll your own `row` function or something
<shevy>
DaniG2k usually you use a method to query an @ivar (a "getter"), with attr_reader you define a getter for an @ivar, like: attr_reader :foo would make a method called foo() which queries the instance variable @foo
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<gf3>
shevy: Which is basically just a thin wrapper on format
<shevy>
gf3 did you use C or something before that you know the formatting rules in ruby?
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<shevy>
Hanmac well these are awesome ideas, but
<shevy>
Hanmac you always alienate existing technology and people who want to retain power/money/influence
<shevy>
the coolest idea may fail if you have enough others set up against those ideas
<shevy>
"printing a car", eh. that would change the whole world
<Hanmac>
i read about a 3d-printer that can print an entire HOUSE :D
<shevy>
well, biological cells can "print" information encoded in genes, so all you would have to do is encode the information of a whole house in a genome and let cells/animals build it for you
<gf3>
shevy: A little, but I use it much more in ruby
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<Hanmac>
shevy so whould the entire house living too? :P
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<shevy>
Hanmac would not have to be, I mean just look at a dead tree, or wood
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<shevy>
Hanmac what would be harder would be stone/minerals, I am unsure how to collect that efficiently with biological harvesting alone
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<shevy>
or steel and so forth
<shevy>
that's probably never possible to create from biological sources, not even with nanobiotechnology :(
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<Hanmac>
shevy image you would live inside a living walking tree :P
<Hanmac>
if the tree is fast enough, the Tax-men would not get you :D
<shevy>
yeah, would be cool, should be possible too one day, you only need a set of directions for cells to adapt to that
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<shevy>
I mean, you start out as a single cell, and you end up with a full human being
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<csmrfx>
biological harvesting in terms of mining is today
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<aedorn>
So what we need to do is genetically modify ourselves to attract other cells to combine, form, and replace dying cells. Or just me. I will take the self sacrifice of living forever for science.
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<csmrfx>
Hold your horses
<csmrfx>
we cannot do that
<csmrfx>
look around you
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<csmrfx>
everything that is alive, is that because evolution of millions of years tested the code
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<csmrfx>
you think you can make it better?
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<wmoxam>
csmrfx: that's a poor argument
<csmrfx>
no, thats reality
<wmoxam>
if that were true we'd all eat only raw food ;)
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<Hanmac>
cshrfx it allows OSX to exist .. so there is no evolution
<csmrfx>
wmoxam: if we would have made it better, there would be no obesity or diets -- we made food worse!!
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<wmoxam>
csmrfx: I didn't realize every one was obese/dieting
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<wmoxam>
carry on
<aedorn>
csmrfx: Using that argument doesn't make sense. The reason that food has become "worse" is really because the underlying motivation to change it was money.
<csmrfx>
Exhibit A: Adult Type II Diabetes. Entirely caused by poor diet. Affects hundreds of millions.
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<havenwood>
I see where this is going... humanity is a virus. I'm a disease, I make myself sick.
<csmrfx>
I can go on, but this is all just common facts.
* havenwood
calls into work, sick with case of self.
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<csmrfx>
some things can indeed be improved like OSX, but we will never beat evolution
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<csmrfx>
In Finland there was this large mining accident in Talvivaara, where they use bacteria to mine metals from the store ore
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<csmrfx>
great idea, but humans managed to screw that up, too!
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<wmoxam>
csmrfx: yes I agree, technological progress should only be made if there is 0 chance that we screw up, or try to defy nature in any way!!!!
<Hanmac>
csmrfx: the mono island in a discworld book was funny ... because at this place you can see evolution in action :P ... when you are want to smoke there will be a ziggarette plant in a few minutes ... including with fiters
<csmrfx>
wmoxam: and arguments only made if you actually have an argument?
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<csmrfx>
Hanmac: Do those ciggies also have natural Polonium isotope that causes cancer?
* csmrfx
goes to ask Terry
<wmoxam>
csmrfx: sorry, I'm busy eating raw carrots, don't want to get diabetes
<Hanmac>
csmrfx hm, i dont know, but the filter has seeds inside that needs fire to bloom :P
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<csmrfx>
wmoxam: ok, I'll go twist some words while I wait
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<wmoxam>
*crunch* *cruncH* *crunch*
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<interactionjaxsn>
wmoxam: didn't you hear, they cured diabetus in rats... humans will be soon
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<Hanmac>
csmrfx if i have access to a biogenetic laboratory i would try to make plants that can produce meat :P
<wmoxam>
interactionjaxsn: blasphemy! we will never beat evolution!!
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<aedorn>
Hanmac: isnt' that what tofu is for? =p
<interactionjaxsn>
wmoxam: what's evolution?
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<wmoxam>
interactionjaxsn: everything that is alive, is that because evolution of millions of years tested the code!!
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<wmoxam>
don't modify poorly commented code you don't understand!
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<wmoxam>
or BOOM!
<Hanmac>
wmoxam: imo the evolution should get it faster :P
<Hanmac>
aedorn tofu is only a replica, an imitate, a mimic :P ... i want to make a plant which can make Ham-like fruits :P
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<interactionjaxsn>
Hanmac: ham with seeds?
<horrror>
weird question. I'm running a huge data structuring script with Jruby (text to neo4j.rb format) and it takes 3 days (finished 80%) and I forgot to appropriately close the object (Neo4j::Batch::Inserter) and on neo4j.rb doc it says that not closing the object might make the graph data corrupted. My question is can I create a new file that only closes the mentioned object? and have Neo4j::Batch::Inserter.shutdown? Surely I will run the file o
<horrror>
when the first script will completely finish.
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<aedorn>
Hanmac: In that case, let me know when you're done genetically modifying the apple tree to produce filet mignon. I'll send you all my money!
<jamesk>
So, I've been a java dev for about two years now. Then last week, I learnt ruby. I think I might be in love.
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<Hanmac>
aedorn i have enough ideas to freak you out :P ... i would comine apple with pidgeons ... only because i would can :P
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<TMM>
I was wondering if someone could tell me if ruby has facilities to do something like : http://ideone.com/Eg2cav a bit cleverer? It doesn't appear to be possible to pass a comparison function into something like Array#compare (not that it has that, but that's what I'd expect)
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<TMM>
I don't want to implement a #== is in my "X" class because the comparison that I need is not for every attribute of the objects and would be confusing (imagine "X" having a bunch of attributes, but for this I only care to know about one of them)
<wmoxam>
Hanmac: evolution is lazily evaluated
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<shevy>
Hanmac an apple with feathers?
<Hanmac>
TMM : i think this would be better x.reject{ |x_item| y.any? { |y_item| x_item.attribute == y_item.attribute } }
<Hanmac>
shevy: yep :P
<TheMoonMaster>
That pinged me. Awesome.
<Hanmac>
shevy: more currect: an flying apple with feathers :D
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<shevy>
aedorn living forever could become rather boring
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<TMM>
hanmac: what is better about it?
<wmoxam>
shevy: fuck no
<Hanmac>
TMM .any? is faster than .index
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<shevy>
wmoxam what are you going to do after 3 billion years man
<TMM>
ah, ok
<shevy>
reset the universe? :P
<wmoxam>
shevy: read the latest, greatest novel
<shevy>
lol
<Hanmac>
shevy: after this years Java would be bugfree
<TMM>
so there is no clever way to supply your own evaluator to a Array#== equivalent?
<shevy>
Hanmac I think it would just be very very very large
<aedorn>
shevy: Maybe... but I'm willing to risk it
<wmoxam>
shevy: AFACIT, if aging and cancer, etc were eliminated, you'd still die, just after a couple of thousand of years on average (accident, war, etc)
<TMM>
I'm kind of wondering why apparently Array#== is implemented as itself rather than as a special case of something like Array#compare which doesn't exist
<TMM>
patches welcome I suppose? :P
<shevy>
wmoxam well yeah but some accidents just could not be prevented
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<shevy>
wmoxam dying to cancer or some other awful disease undoubtedly and totally sucks
<wmoxam>
shevy: that's what I'm saying
<shevy>
or getting whacked on by a car in a car accident while you are walking
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<wmoxam>
or get shot by some lunatic
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<shevy>
we must ban shotguns
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<Hanmac>
shevy: imo its a bit dump that organs die nearly instantly when they dont get any Oxyen ... imo they should automaticly fallback into some hibernation
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<shevy>
Hanmac but then the cell would become more or less dormant
<shevy>
Hanmac when it is active, it produces various proteins
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<mklappstuhl>
can anyone tell my the resoning behind the new hash syntax? are there any performance gains or is it just "beautification"?
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl I think rails guys mostly wanted it
<shevy>
it's a bit shorter if you compare it
<shevy>
{ :foo => 'bar' }
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<shevy>
{ foo: 'bar' }
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<shevy>
if you repeat this on a few hundred lines, it's a bit more readable I suppose
<Hanmac>
shevy you can leave the {} out too
<shevy>
I would hate to write
<shevy>
foo: 'bar'
<shevy>
and this would be also awful
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<shevy>
:foo => 'bar'
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<Hanmac>
hm its a) beautification and b) it may be a bit different for the new 2.0 way there you have *args and **opts in the same function
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<shevy>
but actually, I prefer to always do the leading : for every symbol I use, I dont like that it is on the right side
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<shevy>
what is **opts ?
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<yxhuvud>
keyword arguments.
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<shevy>
hmm interesting
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<mklappstuhl>
yxhuvud: kind of like command line flags?
<mklappstuhl>
I feel kind of skeptic when it comes to changing such a crucial part of a language just for beautification.
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<aedorn>
mklappstuhl: why is that?
<banisterfiend>
mklappstuhl: many languages have keyword args
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<banisterfiend>
no ruby kind of has them though
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<banisterfiend>
though they're still a bit crippled compared to python and R, etc
<shevy>
mklappstuhl I think matz wanted to change ruby one way or the other
<mklappstuhl>
I'm talking about hash syntax, not keyword args
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<lectrick>
Is there any way to temporarily separate include and inherited-from dependencies in a unit test? For example, if I have a class that includes 3 other modules at class load, what is the best way of stubbing out the included functionality?
<mklappstuhl>
There are certain use cases where you cannot simply use the new hash syntax afaik
<lectrick>
Without loading more files
<shevy>
mklappstuhl and with a transition towards a new version, he can try to change several things
<shevy>
mklappstuhl then do what I do and stick to the old way ;P
<mklappstuhl>
Is that possible with the new hash syntax?
<shevy>
eh, what the heck is this
<shevy>
a method on a symbol?
<Spooner>
That isn't a hash.
<Spooner>
I mean, that isn't a symbol Hash.
<shevy>
I have never seen anyone do that before mklappstuhl
<mklappstuhl>
shevy: It's pretty common if you're using mongoid
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<shevy>
first time I see this
<Spooner>
Yes, but it has no relation to symbolic hashes, so the fact that you can't use the new syntax is not too important.
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<mklappstuhl>
Spooner: yeah, realizing that it's not a "pure" hash now too :)
<banisterfiend>
mklappstuhl: so 'lt' is a method on Symbol ?
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<banisterfiend>
mklappstuhl: what does it return?
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<mklappstuhl>
banisterfiend: it means less than
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<banisterfiend>
mklappstuhl: yes but what does it return, just curious
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<mklappstuhl>
Mongoid::Criteria or something like that
<mklappstuhl>
Query object
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<banisterfiend>
ah ok, so that's your hash key, interesting
<Spooner>
Just trued it and it is an Origin::Key object.
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<shevy>
hehehehe
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<mklappstuhl>
Are you guys laughing about me haha?
<Spooner>
Laughing at how much Mongoid hates Ruby syntax :D
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<Spooner>
I've used it, but I didn't come across that.
<shevy>
mklappstuhl no
<shevy>
mklappstuhl I am laughing because Mongoid seems to do things in ways I have never before seen it used somewhere else
<shevy>
perhaps it is more common, but that is really the first time I see :foo.bar used
<mklappstuhl>
ok, so I guess my point regarding the new hash syntax being incompatible with certain things is invalid then. :)
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<mklappstuhl>
shevy, Spooner I wouldn't have taken a laugh as an offense btw :)
<shevy>
mklappstuhl well, internally it becomes the old syntax
<Spooner>
You can even mix new and old, which is horrific: { :x => 1, y: 2, "z" => 1 }
<shevy>
argh
<shevy>
well, makes sense when you would think of the new syntax to be an alias to the old :P
<mklappstuhl>
you got to love that, eh? :)
<Spooner>
But if you need to do that, you should use only rockets.
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl dunno, as long as I can use the old way I don't really care. ruby has so many things that one does not need to use, like @@var, one just needs to find out whether one wants to use something or not
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<mklappstuhl>
I looked at clojure recently and what can I say. every other language is just syntactically poor now ...
<graft>
hey is there a shell command for getting the path where a gem is installed?
<shevy>
yeah, it's my problem... I would want to have more alternatives to ruby but it's difficult
<Spooner>
graft, gem which my_gem
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<shevy>
something like lua would be nice, a minimal ruby, but not with the constraint of "hey, this language must only be used as embedded language for C programs", more a general purpose one
<shevy>
like good old perl... but with better syntax
<Spooner>
Lua is extensible enough to pretty much add a lot of Rubyified objects and syntax to it.
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<pskosinski>
"This is a terrible hack and should be removed but is required" Often I see something like this when reading a Ruby code…
<graft>
Spooner: i get: can't find ruby library file or shared library passenger (after gem which passenger)
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<shevy>
pskosinski yeah, this is because of complexity I think
<Spooner>
graft, Means you don't have it installed.
<shevy>
pskosinski when you try to have minimal design, often things always become very simple as a result
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<lectrick>
banisterfiend: let me ask you... if I have a class with a few includes, and I want to unit test that class, but I don't need all the includes, is there a way to break the dependency on the named includes so that I don't have to load them too?
<pskosinski>
shevy: Ah, I didn't paste end :( This is a terrible hack and should be removed but is required for older versions of rails
<shevy>
pskosinski oh man, rails ...
<graft>
Spooner: i do have it installed, it shows up in my gem list
<shevy>
it'll become its own language one day
<Spooner>
That is Rails, not Ruby though.
<shevy>
:D
<Spooner>
And that won't come a day too soon, shevy :D
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<shevy>
hahaha yeah, it may be a good thing
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<shevy>
perhaps we have less people then, but they could be more dedicated to ruby as a general purpose programming language
<shevy>
and not just "web stuff only"
<shevy>
like in the good old _why days!
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<shevy>
and the whycats
<banisterfiend>
lectrick: sounds really weird
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl, if you do this in irb ruby 2.0: { :x => 5, y: 6 }
<lectrick>
banisterfiend: I suppose what I have to do is move all the class' methods into a module and then include that module in a test version of the class so that I can test the modules in isolation without needing the class itself and its own dependencies
<shevy>
irb gives you back this here as a result: => {:x=>5, :y=>6}
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<lectrick>
test the methods*, not modules
<Spooner>
graft, Not sure why it wouldn't show up with gem which then. Is it installed via a package rather than via gem? *shrugs*
<shevy>
hmm odd why it turns :x => 5 into :x=>5
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<Spooner>
Why wouldn't it? It is code, not a string.
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<Spooner>
*shouldn't
<mklappstuhl>
shevy: whats wrong with that?
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<mklappstuhl>
shevy: why are you tending towards lua?
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl I like the ' ' around the =>, makes it easier for my poor eyes
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl no I would tend towards lua because I like to have things simple in principle, I really find ruby too big, too complex for newcomers etc.. and I cant say I like lua syntax that much
<mklappstuhl>
shevy: I guess what IRB returns is just Hash.serialize or something like that
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<Spooner>
shevy, Override Hash#inspect then if it bothers you.
<shevy>
mklappstuhl but lua is also too specialized in my opinion
<shevy>
Spooner hmm cool, I could do this only in irb right?
<shevy>
like in irbrc
<shevy>
yeah, I will do so if it is possible :)
<Spooner>
The thing with Lua is that you need to add a lot to have a non-trivial language and that is not going to be as standard as having a full language.
<shevy>
yeah :(
<shevy>
I want a simplistic language... but I also want it to be feature rich ... which kind of is a conflicting design
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<mklappstuhl>
shevy: did you take a look at clojure?
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<shevy>
not yet, it requires a working java as a base or?
<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: Why should poeple use this? I don't see the point (if you are trying to make one :))
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<havenwood>
mklappstuhl: :P
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<csmrfx>
Psst`? Hygienic macros?
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<havenwood>
mklappstuhl: Okay, things I like about Scala. Fast. Good concurrency model. Excellent functional paradigm without insisting on always-functional. JVM tooling. Pleasant syntax.
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<havenwood>
mklappstuhl: I like the smart static typing too, whatever you call it. Static typing that looks dynamic.
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<havenwood>
mklappstuhl: Why would you use Closure or Scheme over Scala? Any compelling reasons?
<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: Okay, good reasons. Some people in my office are probably shifting towards Scala, but I'm kind of sceptical about the "without insisting on always functional". Could result in very different coding styles etc.
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<havenwood>
mklappstuhl: Mmm. Yeah, prolly easier to write 'bad' Scala.
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<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: I'm totally in love with LISPs syntax for it's simplicity and everything you get for free with that.
<havenwood>
mklappstuhl: Any thoughts on Closure vs Scheme, I'm curious as I haven't really looked very closely at either?
<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: I haven't looked at scheme except Racket for like 5 minutes.
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<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: I have the impression that there is a LOT of activity in the Clojure community. Also there is more buzz around it than around scheme/racket I think
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<csmrfx>
aka hype?
<csmrfx>
lel
<csmrfx>
you get a lot of free parenthesis, thats for shyure
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<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: It's definitly hyped. But I dont neccessarily view this as a bad thing.
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<csmrfx>
well, its an interesting thing to look at, imo -- vitality of the community means a lot for a language
<csmrfx>
although, it is hard to see scheme going anywhere
<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: and regarding the parens: you get a lot syntax with every language. most language don't achive so much with so little though.
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<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: I did not say that scheme would go anywhere. I was referring to clojure
<csmrfx>
yes
<csmrfx>
schmee is probably staying about where it is -- not near the center, not dropping off the margin
<csmrfx>
clouzr, really hard call
<csmrfx>
I decided to skip it
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<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: why? what else are you waiting for? ITS THE HOLY GRAIL!! (jk)
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<csmrfx>
yeah well you should hear the things the few-years-new-to-ecmascript node.js -fans say
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<csmrfx>
it's like the 2000 again!
<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: Oh right I forgot about JS, the other holy grail.
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<csmrfx>
well who knows, maybe rails will be quaking on its rails soon due to node
<mklappstuhl>
but regarding JS I really believe in it's success as well. It's less a technical view opinion though. Everything is just playing out nicely for the language.
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<havenwood>
csmrfx: Right, Node scales. No other languages have evented-io, just Node. Lets port Rails to Node.
<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: haha
<havenwood>
Nails.
<mklappstuhl>
:D
<csmrfx>
now you got talkin
<shevy>
:(
<shevy>
always javascript
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl it is easy to make the biggest shit language a success if enough people use it
<mklappstuhl>
shevy: did you give clojure a spin?
<shevy>
you just pool loads of resources into it
<fcahoon>
did someone mention php?
<csmrfx>
or, if people have no choice
<mklappstuhl>
shevy: whats so shitty about it?
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl not yet, I have to work through 2 big pdf first :(
<shevy>
mklappstuhl that you have no alternative to it!
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<shevy>
mklappstuhl that it's syntax is uglier than ruby's syntax
<shevy>
mklappstuhl that I can't use it as a general purpose programming language like perl
<Hanmac>
uglier than ":=~" ? :D
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<shevy>
what is the :=~
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<shevy>
I am in favour of removing symbols btw :P
<havenwood>
From Ruby manpage: If you "like the concept of LISP, but don't like too much parentheses, Ruby may be the language of your choice."
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<Hanmac>
its a symbol of a "=~" method
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<shevy>
hah, I knew it! a symbol
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<shevy>
oh wait... =~ is a method in itself?
<havenwood>
'too much parentheses" manpage grammar fails!
<shevy>
can I define it on an object?
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<mklappstuhl>
shevy: coffeescript, clojurescript, whateverscript will eventually have good integrations as well
<shevy>
japanese english is awful
<shevy>
mklappstuhl but coffeescript only exists because javascript exists
<mklappstuhl>
shevy: but I get the point and you are right about it
<shevy>
I mean if ruby would be used in every browser, and then I could use a minimal ruby on top of that, man that would be awesome :D
<shevy>
but I think javascript won that race
<shevy>
perhaps we could all do what coffeescript did
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<shevy>
use the language we want to use and let it generate the javascript for us
<mklappstuhl>
havenwood: ruby might implement some lisp ideas but a language without the parens can never have all the features that are implicit by having parens
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<shevy>
well ruby has parens too!
<shevy>
but optional in most situations
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<Hanmac>
shevy yeah "=~" is a method
<shevy>
what about infix mklappstuhl ... what was it... hmmm (+ 5 2 6 ) or something like that... I probably forgot some parens
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<shevy>
Hanmac cool, let me try that
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<mklappstuhl>
shevy: infix? why?
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<shevy>
cool it works
<csmrfx>
shevy: I dont get it, why cant you use a JVM lang as a general purpose lang?
<shevy>
class Test; define_method(:=~) {|input| puts input * 2 }; end
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<shevy>
test = Test.new; test =~ 5 # 10
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<shevy>
csmrfx I need java??? :(
<csmrfx>
are there platforms that dont support it?
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<breakingthings>
wat are you guys even talk aboot
<breakingthings>
jabba
<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: when did he say that he cannot use a JVM lang as general purpose language
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<csmrfx>
was just pointing out an flaw in argument
<Hanmac>
shevy: "~" is a method too
<breakingthings>
i feel like this conversation was about javascript
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<shevy>
well that's similar to coffeescript too then
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<csmrfx>
21:45 < shevy> mklappstuhl that I can't use it as a general purpose programming language like perl
<breakingthings>
but now you're talking about JVM
<breakingthings>
and that confuses me
<shevy>
and you can use perl without java
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<csmrfx>
I thought we were talking about Clojure! 8D
<shevy>
java should die
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<breakingthings>
I don't even
<shevy>
though, something like the JVM should be ubiquitous
<breakingthings>
I am so confuse
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<breakingthings>
jabbascrip is not jabba
<mklappstuhl>
csmrfx: no I think at that point we already reached JS
<breakingthings>
pls dont confuse
<shevy>
like the cloud virtual machine... CVM
<mklappstuhl>
:D
<shevy>
hive programming
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<csmrfx>
oh
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<csmrfx>
well, its a browser lang
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<atmosx>
hello
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<lxsameer>
hi guys is there any tools like python virtualenv for ruby with bootstrapping ability ?
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<bean>
bundler
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<bean>
or
<bean>
RVM
<bean>
though some people here hate RVM
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<mityaz>
lxsameer: use rbenv
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<lxsameer>
bean: add me to that list
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<bean>
meh, just a suggestion, to each their own
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<pskosinski>
Why OpenSSL::Digest::SHA256.hexdigest("string") is returning string encoded with ASCII-8BIT and not UTF-8? Could it be changed…? I guess that most gems/libraries are using UTF-8?
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<pskosinski>
If you try to use it to make hash of pass for query to database you can have problem, like me…
<Hanmac>
why should something that can only have [/0-9a-f/] UTF-8 encoded?
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<pskosinski>
For consistency?
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<pskosinski>
Does it has any advantages? Because I see only problems with it ^^
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<Hanmac>
i think your database gem do it wrong for not checking the string encoding
<pskosinski>
A few bytes fewer :p
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<pskosinski>
Maybe…
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<Hanmac>
i tihnk your database is configured wrong too ... if a column can only have an hexdigest i would give them an char(64) with ASCII encoding ... an good database should support encoding-per-column too
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<pskosinski>
I hear about it first time, thanks, will read.
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<pskosinski>
sqlite3 supports only utf-8 and utf-16 and only one encoding per database, as I read. it can convert on fly from one encoding to another…
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<foofoobar>
Hi. I'm trying to run an old version of redmine on my server. I transferred it from my local machine (thats why its not the newest version). Now I'm running "bundle install --without development test mysql"
<foofoobar>
The bundle install prices breaks when trying to install mysql. Why? I excluded it with the --without
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<Hanmac>
foofoobar is the dev stuff of mysql installed?
<foofoobar>
Hanmac, what do you mean=
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<foofoobar>
Hanmac, I commented out the 'gem "mysql", …" stuff from the Gemfile now. Bundle works then
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<foofoobar>
But I wonder why the --without did not work
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<Hanmac>
foofoobar ask #bundler about that, i dont trust them, i can only help you to get the mysql gem installed
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<MrZYX>
foofoobar: --without is only excluding groups
<foofoobar>
MrZYX, groups? what does that mean?
<MrZYX>
you can group gems in a Gemfile
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<MrZYX>
if you open it up you'll notice group: :foo options on the gem lines and/or group :foo blocks that include gem lines
<MrZYX>
everything that's outside/has no explicit group specified is in the "default" group
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<khnok>
yes
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<khnok>
i installed
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<havenwood>
Raydiation: What kind of scaffolding? Like for a Rails app or a Gem?
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<Raydiation>
havenwood: php
* Raydiation
is waiting to get stoned
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<havenwood>
Raydiation: PHP? Wat?
<Raydiation>
owncloud apps development
<Raydiation>
we use vagrant and cucumber
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<Raydiation>
so people meant that we should focus on ruby because we already have some build tools
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<Raydiation>
id prefer python but ruby is nice too :)
<csmrfx>
how about jekyll
<csmrfx>
or just plain ruby
<Raydiation>
yeah, thought about templates
<Raydiation>
it would be nice if you could adjust the app skeleton
<csmrfx>
that means nothing
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<csmrfx>
what do you want to adjust?
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<havenwood>
khnok: 1.8 is End-of-Life in June, you ought go ahead and switch to 1.9.3 or better-yet 2.0.0. `sudo apt-get build-dep ruby1.9.1` for 1.9.3 or for 2.0.0: https://gist.github.com/ngauthier/5039249
<Raydiation>
namespaces in every file and author details in agpl headers
<Raydiation>
route names
<Raydiation>
quite a lot
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<csmrfx>
"namespaces in every file"?
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<csmrfx>
are you talking about translating existing source base to ruby?
<Raydiation>
no :)
<Raydiation>
sec
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<havenwood>
khnok: I use chruby instead of Ubuntu package version, but the way you're doing it *should* work. You've just got to figure out why the C-ext isn't building (could be you need Ruby 1.9 for that gem?).
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<khnok>
but is the problem is with this project
<khnok>
rvm use ruby-1.8.7-p334@agiles2011 --create
<havenwood>
khnok: I'd prolly give it a go on Ruby 1.9, see if that works. Or if you can't get apt-get 1.8 C-ext build working, maybe try rvm, chruby or rbenv install of 1.8.
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