<Davey>
Howdy all; I'm writing an article on using ruby/rails for the first time, and I want to clear something up. This is coming from a PHP developers prospective. Taking something simple like this: https://gist.github.com/dshafik/cdd2cd825e76903acbd2 — I'm trying to breakdown what I'm actually looking at. the ActiveRecord (ActiveRecord::Base) is a module, right? Then belongs_to, has_many and attr_accessible are actually method calls (and could be:
<Davey>
belongs_to (:user) for example). What scope are they in? global? this/self? (and inherited from ActiveRecord::Base?)
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<Davey>
is there a sort of implicit $this? if so, how do you /not/ use it?
<sam113101>
self it's called
<sam113101>
you use another object
<Davey>
sam113101: so am I right about belongs_to, etc, being method calls? if so, on what object?
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<sam113101>
I believe it's on the object Profile
<Davey>
so, they are really self.belongs_to
<Davey>
or wait, the class itself is an object, as are instances of it… right?
<banisterfiend>
Davey: yeah
<Davey>
so it's like, prototype in JS at that point. o.O
<banisterfiend>
Davey: theyre class methods
<sam113101>
the class itself is an object, yes
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<Davey>
I think my brain just exploded.
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<banisterfiend>
Davey: you can invoke class methods inside the class definition
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<Davey>
banisterfiend: are they run at definition time? or when instantiating an instance of it? I presume the former as the class maybe never be instantiated (e.g. Class.foo)
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<Davey>
(stupid battery)
<Davey>
banisterfiend: so I can define a class method inside a class, and call it inside the definition /at the same time/ ?
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<mxweas>
I'm having trouble solving an odd bug. I have a small script that uploads a file. I'm uploading in chunks. The script on its own works fine. As soon as I add "require 'pg'" it runs out of memory while I upload my file.
<frank__>
I'm using a new client and not sure if anybody is seeing what I'm saying - can somebody confirm they're seeing this?
<ddd>
hah, nice try. answer that you can see him, then be jumped on with 'so, got an answer for me since you can see me?'
<felixjet>
is rails required as it looks?
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<frank__>
alright nice, at least i'm not talking to nobody
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<gazarsgo>
you may still be talking to nobody, whether in the singular or the plural sense
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<frank__>
felixjet: not sure what you're asking
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<felixjet>
well... in php you dont need to use a framework... by far
<felixjet>
but in ruby, rails looks like a must
<felixjet>
its almost more commented than the ruby language
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<frank__>
felixjet: no, definitely not. I would recommend not using it if you're not doing something where MVC makes sense
<felixjet>
what if u build ur own MVC ?
<frank__>
then use rails
<ddd>
then why would you need it?
<felixjet>
why?
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<felixjet>
thats the problem... whenever u need to use MVC, "rails" looks like a must :/
<frank__>
because its there and it works and there's a community
<ddd>
if you're building your own you obviously wouldn't need rails. you're making your own. if you want to use the *rails* framework's idea of how to implement MVC apps, then use that
<felixjet>
rails have a template engine?
<ddd>
if you don't want rails, then use sinatra, or ramaze or something like that
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<ddd>
rubyonrails.org
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<felixjet>
kk ;p
<ddd>
if rails isn't what you want, then google up sinatra or ramaze
<felixjet>
so it looks like is an advantage to code it urself?
<frank__>
yeah rails supports a bunch of template engines
<felixjet>
and better use rails, sinatra, ramaze, or whatever
<felixjet>
disvantage i meant to say
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<frank__>
if you're trying to get something useful to users built that lends itself heavily to rails MVC then its faster to use rails. if you're just building for the sake of building/learning/hobbying then build a framework yourself, sure
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<ddd>
what frank__ said
<frank__>
felixjet: can't be answered as a general question. Its really useful for certain use cases, really really useless for others
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<ddd>
if you're looking for a 1-1 mapping from php world to ruby or rails world, you're not going to find it
<felixjet>
i never understood the use of frameworks :/
<ddd>
convention over configuration
<ddd>
follow the defaults, spend more time coding
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<felixjet>
i made my own mvc "framework" with database abstraction layers with like 50-100 lines of code
<ddd>
veer off defaults spend more time configuring and doing other crap
<ddd>
good, then go build the same in ruby
<felixjet>
yea i planned to migrate it
<ccbn>
I'm playing with Observable, tweaking a sample from the Ruby source: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/sample/observ.rb When I write a version to output MPD info the outputted text concatenates, the Ruby example replaces the text on each update.
<felixjet>
its very simple but i dont need a ton of libraries that i wont use
<ddd>
if you're just trying to make veiled snicks at rails because you don't like it, or feel its a lame implementation don't waste the time. we hear it day in and day out.
<felixjet>
nah, i was just asking
<felixjet>
because whenever you see ruby, the word rails is around
<felixjet>
just wanted to know if its a like a must
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<ddd>
ruby != rails ; rails != ruby core. its just a framework. ignore the framework, enjoy the language
<ddd>
Net::HTTP etc for your fun
<ddd>
no its not a must
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<felixjet>
kk :P dont get mad xD
<ddd>
just rails is a very big elephant in the ruby world
<ddd>
can you anything you want and never touch rails
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<ddd>
its like having a star hitter on a team. the hitter isn't the team, he's just one player. he's a player that casts a huge light on the team, but he's not the entire team. same applies to rails and ruby
<felixjet>
that looks like a disvantage :P
<ddd>
only because you perceive it that way
<felixjet>
probably
<felixjet>
to be honest, i dont imagine javascript without jquery this days
<ddd>
ruby was here before rails, ruby will be here after rails, ruby will be here after 'the next big thing'
<felixjet>
maybe rails is more or less the same
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<felixjet>
yea thats true
<bean>
I much prefer writing simple things that require a web framework in Sinatra anyways.
<felixjet>
ill take a look at sinatra too
<felixjet>
didnt read anything at all
<ddd>
i like rails. is rails 'ruby' to me? not by a long shot
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<ddd>
i just find it fun (rails). but there's ramaze as well, and there's always node.js :)
* bean
works for a scala shop.
<bean>
as a sysadmin
* ddd
waits for his head to be hacked off for the node comment
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<ddd>
i personally like that i can take any assignment from my college class for java, rewrite in in ruby, and do it faster, less lines, and have it read cleaner, and execute faster.
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<ddd>
i like, though, that i can run jruby and as long as i do the work if it hasn't been done already and use any java library with it.
<ddd>
tons of things to do in the ruby world
<bean>
faster... really?
<ddd>
so far
<felixjet>
java is slow
<bean>
surprising
<ddd>
only on startup
<bean>
javas only slow on startup
<bean>
and real processing is pretty good
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<ddd>
take it out for a spin, kick the tires. doubt you'll be disappointed with ruby
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<Wixy>
I'm using passenger-install-apache2-module to install passenger and it says "ext/common/Utils/SystemTime.cpp:37:1: fatal error: error writing to /tmp/cc2gvcoc.s: No space left on device"
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<Wixy>
I think I have found 10 ways in which installing ruby, rails and passenger can fail :(
<Wixy>
and you say it's straightforward, hemanth? haha
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<hemanth>
Wixy, No space left on device! Are you on a VM?
<Wixy>
no
<otters>
module prepending is kool
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<Wixy>
in fact du -ch /tmp says it has.. nothing
<Wixy>
0
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<Wixy>
I mounted another partition to /tmp, now it seems it's compiling it correctly
<Wixy>
but.. I'm sure I'll face another problem before it finishes -.-
<Wixy>
seriously, Linux have a really big problem with simplicity..
<lewix>
Hanmac: do you have some time to waste. I want to understand something
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<hemanth>
vectorshevels what's ur new nick :P ?
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<Guest90863>
Hi guys, I have an array where is in one column the same value. I would like to group_by the array according the column, but I have a bit issue how to do that. I am trying this - https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3d7ed0dcd57bb00144ca, but the output is not exactly what I would need… could you help me please with that?
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<lewix>
If you want to access a class variable outside of a class hierarchy or instances of the class(or subclasses) you need to define accessor methods,right?
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<lewix>
Guest90863: it's a hash
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<lewix>
Guest90863: what exactly are you trying to do
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<macsim>
hi, I'm on ubuntu and try to make sass working, I use ruby 1.9 but when I start it say Encoding::CompatibilityError: incompatible encoding regexp match (UTF-8 regexp with ASCII-8BIT string) it's a bug ? thanks
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<Hanmac1>
macsim its not a bug
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<macsim>
Hanmac1, I don't don't know what's going wrong it's a sass error or ruby ?
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<Hanmac1>
show us your code ... (you need to tell ruby that your rb files has non-ascii chars ...) google after magic encoding
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<macsim>
Hanmac1, it's not my code it's just a gem installed
<horrror>
what is the best/efficient way to assign a function value into a variable? if not function.empty? x = function
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<Electrical>
Hi all, if i have an array of hashes and i want to do something on each hash. do i need to do something like array.each do |subhash| ..... end ?
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<tobiasvl>
yeah, that works
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<Electrical>
hmm, for some reason its not doing what i expected then.
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<Electrical>
the end result needs to be 1 hash that is merged from all the other hashes.
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<Electrical>
the first function transforms keys like 'discovery.zen' into a full hash representation.
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<Electrical>
that way someting like "boostrap.mlockall"=>true, gets transformed into {"boostrap"=>{"mlockall"=>true}},
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<Hanmac1>
Electrical: i did something like that with your first array: data.each_with_object({}){|s,h| h.merge!(s) {|k,o,n| o.merge(n) {|k,o,n| o.respond_to?(:merge) ? o.merge(n) {|k,o,n| o.merge(n)} : n } }}
<Electrical>
Hanmac: with the input or output data you mean ( in my gist )
<Hanmac1>
i mean your first gist
<Electrical>
ah okay
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<Electrical>
trying to understand what your code does.. i'm not that great in ruby :-(
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<DDark>
Hey All. Im using symbols as hash keys, but they are still being shown as strings. Consider the following hash: >{:enc=>{:parameters=>nil, :classes=>{:math=>nil, :science=>nil, :english=>nil}, :environment=>"development"}, :node=>"instance1", :inherit=>nil}<
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<DDark>
Im unable to reference by symbol, but rather by string
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<Hanmac1>
DDark do you use rails?
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<DDark>
no this is straight ruby being put into mongodb
<tobiasvl>
that sounds weird
<tobiasvl>
can we see some example code?
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<Hanmac1>
DDark maybe monodb does not support symbols?
<tobiasvl>
oh, might be that mongodb stores the hash keys as strings, if you're serializing the hash somehow?
<DDark>
Hanmac, that is possible.
<tobiasvl>
("symbols" are just a form of cached string you know)
<DDark>
yeah but I was under the impression symbols are immutable. Seeming as though my keys wont change why have them as a string? I guess the answer is maybe i have to :)
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<DDark>
hmm better hop on into #mongodb for a sec ;)
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<DDark>
ok so in mongo keys are strings and only strings
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<DDark>
so keep that in mind if you're ever working with it.
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<DDark>
poppycock i say. Just poppycock :)
<tobiasvl>
it doesn't support numbers for keys either?
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<tobiasvl>
what do you mean by "only strings"
<tobiasvl>
i'd think it didn't support symbols because they're strings behind the scenes
<tobiasvl>
but integers are basic data types too
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<DDark>
not sure. Im not extremely versed with mongo interworkings. I was just told that in #mongodb. The ruby driver for mongo converts my symbols to strings.
<DDark>
it may support ints, but in my case I wouldnt be using them
<Hanmac1>
hm it would be a leak hole if the db engine automatic create symbols for the tables
<DDark>
Well I can remove the to_sym in my code I suppose. No point in a useless operation heh
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<csmrfx>
probably means that only strings in the js stylee
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<csmrfx>
no number datatype/object type
* csmrfx
is on a wild guessechace, though
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<Hanmac1>
everytime you use .to_sym an memory leak is born :P
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<DDark>
oh no!
<DDark>
well. ive had enough of this nonsense :) Im getting some shuteye
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<DDark>
thanks for the tips gentlemen.
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<chrisramon>
Hi, does anyone know how can i set that a form field is required, at runtime?
<csmrfx>
Yes, someone does.
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<csmrfx>
This however, has nothing to do with #wruby, per se.
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<csmrfx>
*#ruby
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<Spooner_>
chrisramon, #rubyonrails
<chrisramon>
srry
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<_bart>
Hi, I'm setting up a service that shoots screenshots of webpages, and I tried to use Selenium but that's not really designed for it, and it's slow. Any suggestions on how to do it?
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<tobiasvl>
or <<
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<tobiasvl>
splud: i prefer interpolation, as Hanmac1 suggested, but just to point out what was wrong with your example, + (or << to mutate an existing string) is the correct way to concatenate
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<Hanmac1>
but for sample this works too: :P puts "some message " "#{ variable ? "true" : "false" }" "etc."
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<ner0x>
Hanmac1: I meant the name of the timezone?
<tobiasvl>
ah yeah ... space can concatenate too apparently
<Hanmac1>
tobiasvl space is not needed: so: "a""b""c" is valid ruby too: (its "abc")
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<tobiasvl>
interesting
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<gebbione>
hi all ... how can you dump a variable into a string (serialize it ... get a string that represents whatever that variable is ) so i can print it out like ... puts "My object is " + object
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<ad_AA>
hi
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<gebbione>
looks dead in here or was my question too boring ? :/
<ad_AA>
I don't have problem to pass from hex to int in this way: "\x10\xAA\x02\x20".unpack('V*')[0] -------> 537045520
<ad_AA>
but If I only want to pass one hex byte I get nil "\x40".unpack('V*')[0] ---> nil
<ad_AA>
how can I get the int value for just one character ?
<ad_AA>
*one byte
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<Virunga>
gebbione: my_var.to_a or my_var.inspect maybe
<Virunga>
sorry to_s
<gebbione>
Virunga i tried inspect ... also pretty_print
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<gebbione>
but the lines i am running never get executed
<gebbione>
Dir.new(".").path ... is this enough to find my current directory?
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<ad_AA>
Spooner_: let me try
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<c6der>
what is this channel!!!!!!!
<ad_AA>
nice, thank you so much Spooner_
<ad_AA>
:)
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<c6der>
too many people !
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<aytch>
c6der: because everyone loves Ruby!
<c6der>
hmm!?
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<c6der>
is ruby used in real industry?
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<Virunga>
gebbione: if you're interested there is a nice mailing list of italian ruby miners
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<c6der>
oh wahaha
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<Spooner_>
ad_AA, If you literally only have one character, though, you can simply use "\x40".ord #=> 64
<Virunga>
c6der: yes
<Spooner_>
ad_AA, #unpack is obviously faster if you want to convert a lot of bytes at once.
<gebbione>
Virunga: not yet ... i work on PHP usually ... just tring to work out how to use Ruby for some code i am working on ... not sure if and when i will eventually move on to Ruby
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<Virunga>
I see
<c6der>
then then i try to learn a little heh
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<c6der>
i learnd python but not this one
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<gebbione>
python is a funny one ... to be honest if i had to learn something i d like t try node.js
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<Virunga>
yes, it's the one of the moment
<c6der>
node.js is
<Virunga>
I like it too
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<c6der>
javascript which i'm having fun now
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<c6der>
javascript is not neat but good structure of oop
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<gebbione>
the greatest advantage is u can use the same language in both client and server
<Hanmac1>
c6der .. ruby has better concept of oop ... because in ruby everything is an object ... even the space between objects is an object too :P
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<c6der>
hehe funny
<gebbione>
Dir.chdir("../../").pwd.inspect ... would this work in Ruby ?
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<Virunga>
Hanmac1: really? Funny :D
<Hanmac1>
gebbione: Dir.chdir("../../");Dir.pwd
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<Hanmac1>
Virunga: look at the constant "ObjectSpace" :P
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<eval-in_>
Hanmac1: Output: "/tmp/execpad-33ae4947979a/source-33ae4947979a:1:in `_id2ref': 0x000008 is not symbol id value (RangeError)\n\tfrom /tmp/execpad-33ae4947979a/source-33ae4947979a:1:in `<main>'\n" (http://eval.in/11602)
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<splud>
thanks for pointers on inline conditional output. new to ruby here, and banging my head on a lot of things.
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<splud>
Doesn't help that the scripts I'm dealing with are themselves called by something else, so I don't see output or useful error information - just a lack of proper function.
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<ad_AA>
Spooner_: are you still there?
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<mntzn>
Hi, I have http = Net::HTTP.new, whenever I do http.get and the host is either down or not cannot be resolved I get an error, how can I catch this error?
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<Hanmac1>
bean_work: evalin does not allow system or ``
<amacleod>
From looking at the docs, it sounds like begin/rescue won't work with the get method of Net::HTTP
<bean_work>
>> ah
<eval-in_>
bean_work: Output: "/tmp/execpad-67c6aadd14ac/source-67c6aadd14ac:1:in `<main>': undefined local variable or method `ah' for main:Object (NameError)\n" (http://eval.in/11619)
<bean_work>
i figured.
<bean_work>
was just seeing if it did
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<amacleod>
mntzn, presumably the Response instance returned by get has some way of signaling problems.
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<amacleod>
HTTPResponse, that is.
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<Hanmac1>
bean_work: if you klick at your evalin link http://eval.in/11618 you can see "Forbidden syscall pipe"
<bean_work>
ah okay.
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<mntzn>
hoelzro: amacleod: thanks
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<mntzn>
so I cant begin & rescue :/
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<mntzn>
amacleod: whenever I do get it just hangs for a while then throws an error
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<hoelzro>
mntzn: what's the error you're getting?
<hoelzro>
could you paste it somewhere?
<akam_>
hello!
<amacleod>
Hanging for a while might make sense if it can't resolve DNS.
<hoelzro>
did you provide an exception class to rescue?
<mntzn>
nope, but I will
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<hoelzro>
please do
<amacleod>
Maybe my statement about begin/rescue was not entirely correct. I just read in the docs that get is not supposed to raise exceptions.
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<akam_>
I have a datetime object, and I wanna to parse only time in integer. i.e. I have 23.7.2012 05:00:00 and I wanna to get 18000. Can anybody suggest me plz?
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<e-dard>
akam_ you mean you want the whole time between the epoch and your date time object, in seconds?
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<Hanmac1>
akam_ okay ... you said datetime ... thats why i think that you need to_time to get a Time object from it
<Mon_Ouie>
Well, that's not the error I wanted it to show :p
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<akam_>
Hanmac1, I mean date and time like "23.7.2012 05:00:00" )
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<Hanmac1>
akam_ okay, but you may need an DateTime object to parse the string
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<akam_>
Hanmac1, sorry I thought Datetime and Time are same) so i already have Time object
<akam_>
and to_i % (60*60*24) work for me, thanks again)
<Hanmac1>
there are a Date class too (Date and DateTime are in stdlib, Time is in core)
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<realDAB>
although, confusingly, there's also a time stdlib library
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<akam_>
How do you think reverse engineering of binary file forma is a legal?
<akam_>
*format
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<Hanmac1>
akam_ what kind of binary format? do you mean an executable?
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<akam_>
not executable. data file
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<Hanmac1>
akam_ ... hm its a gray zone ... when you do it for you allone, i dont think they can prevent you from parsing the data ... (or does they have an EULA that forbits that?)
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<beaky>
hello
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<beaky>
why is inheritance considererd harmful?
<beaky>
considered*
<Spooner_>
Who says it is, beaky ?
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<Hanmac1>
Spooner_ maybe PHP guys :P
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<Mon_Ouie>
Using it when not needed is a bad idea because inheriting a class is a huge constraint
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<breakingthings>
wouldn't say "harmful"
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<breakingthings>
"restricting" maybe
<Spooner_>
Like most tools in the programmers kit, used badly, it is problematic.
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<akam_>
Hanmac1, I do it for diploma project, but EUAL says:
<akam_>
You may not use, copy, emulate, clone, rent, lease, sell, modify,
<akam_>
decompile, disassemble, otherwise reverse engineer, or transfer the
<akam_>
licensed program, or any subset of the licensed program. Any such
<akam_>
of this license and may result in criminal and/or civil prosecution.
<akam_>
unauthorized use shall result in immediate and automatic termination
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<Spooner_>
That says program, not data.
<akam_>
I think it is for executable programm only? not for data?
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<akam_>
yep. Am i right?
<Spooner_>
What is the program though?
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<Spooner_>
I definitely wouldn't take it as legal advice, but I probably wouldn't worry.
<breakingthings>
legal stuff is only important when you get a C&D anyway :p
<breakingthings>
(please nobody take that seriously)
<marwinism>
damn, i'm trying to install the 'pg' gem, but it fails. Just reloaded RVM, but i'm not using rails. Do I need RVM?
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<Hanmac1>
beaky: for sample my WX binding ... wxRuby normaly does uses inheritance (you need to inherit) ... in my "replica" you normaly dont need to
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<yfeldblum>
beaky, there are far too many occasions where one will see inheritance used for the purpose of inheriting an implementation - that's not good
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<yfeldblum>
beaky, inheritance should be used when the conceptual relationships are hierarchical, not for implementation reuse
<yfeldblum>
beaky, for implementation reuse, consider composition
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<beaky>
ahn thjanks
<beaky>
thanks*
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<beaky>
I read blogs where they say that inheritance isn't good for code reuse, and that even using it to produce hierarchies should be discourage over a component-based design
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<marwinism>
dear sweeeeet baby jesus it feels good when the code actually works.
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<geggam_wk>
+1 marwinism
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<beaky>
when I fail the integration test, I do 10 pushups
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<Hanmac1>
beaky depends on the language ... php and java overuses inheritance because they cant do it better :P
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<shevy>
beaky are you muscular?
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<shevy>
php indeed does not have any alternative :(
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<Hanmac1>
i have tryed to do something similar to rubies Enumerable module in PHP ... i failed because of the shity language :P
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<Hanmac1>
Dwarf whats your problem?
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<yxhuvud2>
rdark: so what is it that doesn't work?
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<Dwarf>
I see this function, which is apparently what I want, but I have no idea on how to use it: http://stackoverflow.com/a/195894
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<Hanmac1>
Dwarf: Time.now.to_pretty
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<Dwarf>
I see
<flam_>
hi. i'm running debian testing and i'm trying to get ruby bdb bindigs to work. i installed following packages: db4.3-util, libdb4.3-ruby-1.8 when i'm on irb and run "require 'bdb'" it still doesn't load the bdb module
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<flam_>
how should i go on about solving this?
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<flam_>
i need bdb to run rbot
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<rdark>
yxhuvud2: My script doesn't seem to be able to locate any gems
<Dwarf>
I'm going to fiddle with this, thanks Hanmac1
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<rdark>
so say I have require 'sshkey' - I'll just get an error on running about 'no such file to load'
<yxhuvud2>
rdark: what does 'gem list' show you?
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<rdark>
all gems as expected, installed at /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8
<Hanmac1>
flam_ 1. is your ruby version 1.8 too or what does ruby -v shows you?
<rdark>
and that path is in both $PATH and $GEM_PATH
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<yxhuvud2>
rdark: maybe you need some packages that wasn't supplied in the gem.
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<flam_>
1.9.3p194
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<rdark>
yxhuvud2: thanks, will do some more digging and come back. Just wondered if it was an obvious centos-specific thing as I'm developing on debian systems and haven't run into it before
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<tomjoro>
Ruby must be compiled with OpenSSL support.
<yxhuvud2>
well, if it was what I suggested, then the same issue would happen on debian
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<Hanmac1>
flam_ your libdb*ruby package does not install the package for your ruby version ... i look if i find a currect one
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<flam_>
with apt-cache everything i found was for ruby 1.8
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<Hanmac1>
flam_ maybe something like "libdbd-pg-ruby1.9.1" ? but the new name is "ruby-dbd-pg" on my system
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<flam_>
thanks, i try to find information on that
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<Hanmac1>
flam_ i found it, look after "ruby-bdb"
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<Hanmac1>
hmmm but its still only for 1.8 ?
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<quazimodo>
why does the ruby style guide get rid of and/or in favour of && and || ?
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<havenn>
quazimodo: Some people get confused by and/or having lower precedence.
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<Hanmac1>
quazimodo it depends ... because they are different
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<Hanmac1>
in most cases && and || are better
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<havenn>
quazimodo: Many people use and/or for flow control. On the other hand, some people new to Ruby use it ubiquitously and then get confused when '=' or other operators have higher precedence.
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<quazimodo>
ok :)
<quazimodo>
gotcha
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<quazimodo>
oh one other thing, what's the source code break line character
<quazimodo>
such that you can multiline a piece of code
<havenn>
quazimodo: ;
<Spooner_>
Quadlex, You should never need to manually break.
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<Hanmac1>
you can also combine lines with \
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<Hanmac1>
Spooner_ haha wrong user :P
<quazimodo>
Spooner_: some times it happens
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<Spooner_>
quazimodo, I can't say I've ever needed \ in Ruby and I've written plenty and have a 80-column rule.
<Spooner_>
Hanmac1, They needed waking up.
<Spooner_>
quazimodo, However, in Python, I need it because it doesn't think to look on the next line for continuation ;)
* Hanmac1
often broke the 80-col-rule ...
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<Catbuntu>
For doing normal things I mean, I'm not going to do very advanced scientific things.
<Catbuntu>
Depends on what Hanmac1?
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<Hanmac1>
Catbuntu both ruby and python can have external bindings (so use C or C++ code to boost the speed)
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<Catbuntu>
And is JRuby faster or slower than standard (C I guess) Ruby?
<Catbuntu>
I assumed that by running it on JVM it was slower, but in their website they say it has a better performance lol
<yfeldblum>
Catbuntu, are you asking about after the code has already been written, how much faster one is than the other to run?
<yfeldblum>
Catbuntu, or can we include time-to-write-the-code in this comparison?
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<Catbuntu>
Running the code.
<Catbuntu>
I write faster in Ruby at least.
<havenn>
Catbuntu: JRuby uses Java extensions (or FFI) for external bindings. And yeah, JVM startup time is slower than most other implementations. But quite performant once running.
<quazimodo>
jruby is faster
<Hanmac1>
Catbuntu: jruby is a bit faster than old MRI (C) ruby, the new MRI is nearly equal imo ...
<zaltekk>
ruby will typically execute slower than python...but at the point where that matters, you probably won't use either
<Catbuntu>
Ok, I see.
<Gate_>
Catbuntu: jRuby is faster after startup
<zaltekk>
dynamic languages are used for their productivity gains
<havenn>
zaltekk: Pics or it didn't happen. :P
<Catbuntu>
As I know both if there's something Ruby can't handle but Python can, I can always use Python for that.
<Catbuntu>
But I really like Ruby's philosphy.
<Catbuntu>
It's like a more readable Perl.
<Catbuntu>
But object-oriented :P
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<zaltekk>
my interest in ruby was peaked by having a hard time finding work with perl
<Catbuntu>
And I really hate not being able to use ?, ! and = on Python's methods hehe
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<quazimodo>
Catbuntu: ruby's philosophy is "omg that looks interesting, ill add that. Oh cool a feature, add it. Wow sugary, nice add"
<Hanmac1>
catbuntu: about jruby vs mri-ruby , i prefer to write external bindings itself so i can use c++ code to make it nice ... and some libs does not have C-API so i cant use FFI
<quazimodo>
makes reading it gay
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<quazimodo>
python's is more sound "give me 15 reasons why to add that"
<JoeHazzers>
it means there's four different ways to do the same thing, which means you have to learn four times as much just to read someone else's code
<Catbuntu>
And which editor do you prefer for Ruby?
<Gate>
Catbuntu: what can python handle that ruby can't? They are both fully functional languages..... the question is if one is easier than the other
<Catbuntu>
Besides normal editors like gedit, vim, nano, etc.
<JoeHazzers>
the whole argument for ruby editors is basically "get a mac"
<Gate>
Catbuntu: geany's implementation on OSX sucks (because GTK sucks on OSX) and that is the only reason I stopped using it
<JoeHazzers>
you're an outsider
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<Catbuntu>
Lol.
<Catbuntu>
There are a lot of Apple-ish Rubyists :P
<quazimodo>
lol vim is smashing emacs!
<Catbuntu>
I use Linux Mint Debian Edition!!111one
<Gate>
quazimodo: You are all welcome to your own wrong opinion.... <- emacs user
<quazimodo>
Gate i don't get it
<Hanmac1>
i use Gedit for little ruby scripts but i use Eclipse for my bigger bindings
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<Gate>
eclipse? are you masochistic?
<Gate>
so..... *slow*
<havenn>
I'm happy with TM2.
<quazimodo>
emacs has the ctrl button
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<quazimodo>
what else has that? nothing
<Hanmac1>
Gate my bindings a BIG ... i need something that can work with that and support both C++ and ruby
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<Hanmac1>
emacs is soo big, it also has a texteditor inside
<Gate>
Hanmac1: if you've got a lot of custom bindings I can see it, but still. Its so slow....
<Gate>
And your solution to that is eclipse?
<zaltekk>
vim :)
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<havenn>
zaltekk: On remote machines I often alias mate to vim, just cause I forget...
<zaltekk>
what is mate?
<Gate>
Emacs is basically its own OS, I admit. But at least when youare editing text, you are editing text. Not convincing your editor that it should let you (vim).
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<Gate>
zaltekk: textmate
<havenn>
zaltekk: Textmate
<Hanmac1>
Gate: one of my bindings as 112 cpp and 112 hpp files
<zaltekk>
i don't use apple stuff, so i've never had that issue
<havenn>
zaltekk: Yeah, it is interesting using OS X as primary development machine that i find BSDs more immediately intuitive with command line flags and such than Linux.
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<Gate>
Catbuntu: congratulations, you've managed to ask the one question guaranteed to get any arbitrary group of developers to argue. "what editor"
<Hanmac1>
gate yeah and i have eclipse :P
<zaltekk>
havenn: i used freebsd
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<zaltekk>
*use
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<havenn>
zaltekk: Yeah, thats the one i virtualize. Actually, a ton of the OS X devs are also FreeBSD devs.
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<becom33>
anyone for me ?
<havenn>
zaltekk: I mean the Apple internal folks.
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<Hanmac1>
becom33 it looks that the ncurses gem is not 1.9 ready ...
<Gate>
becom33: what OS are you on?
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<becom33>
Gate, ubuntu
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<becom33>
12.10
<Gate>
becom33: how did you isntall ruby?
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<Gate>
oh, yeah. 1 version from 2004. Definitely unmaintained.
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<Catbuntu>
I should learn about Ruby styleguide on GitHub.
<Catbuntu>
huh
<Catbuntu>
I'll print that sheet.
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<felixjet>
link it!
<havenn>
zaltekk: Saw an interesting writeup the other day on using NetBSD's pkgsrc on OS X.
<havenn>
(package manager)
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<zaltekk>
i know what pkgsrc is
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<Hanmac1>
becom33 the ncurses gem looks dead ... try to look for a newer one
<zaltekk>
not sure why you think i'd care about apple stuff, though :P
<havenn>
zaltekk: Ahh, I didn't. Never used NetBSD.
<zaltekk>
just mentioned that i don't own any of their hardware
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<zaltekk>
i guess i have an ipod someone gave me about 8 years ago
<becom33>
Hanmac, what do u mean
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<zaltekk>
pksrc has been ported to other systems than netbsd
<zaltekk>
but that doesn't mean the packages will built
<zaltekk>
just that the management system is used
<havenn>
zaltekk: Ah, didn't know that. Only BSD I really use is FreeBSD.
<becom33>
Hanmac, Gate oh yes I installed ruby 1.9 I was using 1.8.x before
<Hanmac1>
becom33 from that i can see of your pastebin, this gem you wants to build is not compatible with your ruby version ... (because the gem is shitty)
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<havenn>
What is the difference between plain ole Curses and NCurses?
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<zaltekk>
curses isn't free
<breakingthings>
pain
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<breakingthings>
suffering
<becom33>
so your saying ncurses doesnt support 1.9 ?
<breakingthings>
oh wait that's both
<Hanmac1>
becom33 its this gem what does not support 1.9
<havenn>
Oh, N(ew)Curses.
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<becom33>
Hanmac, if I uninstall the current one and reinstall it would it work ?
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<havenn>
becom33: You need NCurses not Curses? Curses is built in, no gem needed.
<becom33>
havenn, I can use rbcurse if I have ncurses
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<e-dard>
Hi, I'm looking at building some data-analysis tools. Typically, these tools will need to read significant amounts of delimited data and carry out a lot of manipulation (string-substitution as well as statistical/arithmetic stuff)
<e-dard>
finally, it all needs to be pushed into DB. My question - is JRuby going to provide much advantage over Ruby for this type of use-cases?
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<e-dard>
I'm thinking to be honest of just building it all out in pure Java, as our current Ruby implementation is painfully slow.
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<e-dard>
A typical iteration of the algorithm might involve around 3 million rows of data, where each row might have 100-500 characters
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<havenn>
e-dard: Tried running current implementation on JRuby yet?
<e-dard>
havenn: not yet. One other question I had was whether JRuby would benefit from refactoring/rewriting?
<apeiros_>
e-dard: I'd run a profiler before running blindly from one language to another
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<e-dard>
apeiros_: sure, and we will. But the app is CPU-bound for sure.
<Hanmac1>
e-dard ... your ruby code could be maybe refactored ... maybe you did something stupid
<apeiros_>
e-dard: then even more so
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<apeiros_>
your algorithms usually matter more than the language
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<havenn>
e-dard: You may be able to speed it up by orders of magnitude by writing more performant Ruby. Is it open or closed source?
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<Hanmac1>
its closet source :P
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<arturaz>
apeiros_, unless you're using a language which does not give you proper data structures ;)
<e-dard>
Maybe I should rephrase my question… Assume the code is performant, and any further optimisations would carry with them unreasonable maintenance/developer costs… What can one expect from JRuby given the code involves a lot of string manipulation / regular expressions...
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<Hanmac1>
arturaz like PHP? :D
<arturaz>
is there a ruby lib for proper linked lists and etc?
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<apeiros_>
arturaz: because you're unable to implement them yourself?
<arturaz>
apeiros_, as a C extensions? Why should I?
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<arturaz>
e-dard, run it and see for yourself
<apeiros_>
arturaz: assuming you're setting ruby as the context - because it's still much faster than writing the whole thing in C.
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<Guest123_>
does anyone know why when calling bind() on a Net::LDAP object it might freeze indefinitely?
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<arturaz>
apeiros_, well, yes. There are other languages than C though. I'm just saying - if you need superb performance, ruby isn't quite there unfortunately. Using jruby & java data structures might get you closer
<apeiros_>
arturaz: you're wildly deviating
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<apeiros_>
next stop: nothing beats hand-tuned asm.
<havenn>
e-dard: JRuby will likely be faster (tends to be once you get over slow startup time) but not by an order of magnitude. From Ruby writing C-ext or from JRuby Java-ext just for the bottleneck is conventional wisdom I think.
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<e-dard>
havenn: thanks.
<Hanmac1>
arturaz: but what if you use C(++) extendions with MRI ruby or rubinius? with that you can be faster than jruby
<arturaz>
havenn, ++ :)
<arturaz>
Hanmac, yes :) It's just the matter of preference. As always.
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* Hanmac1
writes C++ gems ... so he knows a bit about that ... and no i cant use FFI for that
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<magichands>
why does bundler need my password...?
<Hanmac1>
magichands maybe it wants to steal your creditcard infos?
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<apeiros_>
magichands: how'd we know? probably because you tell it to do something for which it needs it…
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<havenn>
e-dard: Might look at Mirah as an option if you are pro-JVM: http://www.mirah.org/
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<Guest123_>
has anyone dealt with Net::LDAP?
* apeiros_
wants a dollar for every useless metaquestion
<robustus>
magichands: probably because your installing system-wide gems, you need sudo privileges for that
<magichands>
ok... how do I get it to install user local gems
<magichands>
or better yet, project local
<magichands>
gem install xyz does that just fine
<magichands>
not sure why bundler decided system wide was the best route
<Hanmac1>
apeiros_ then usa would be more moneyless than normal :P
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<robustus>
usually bundler goes the same route as gem...
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<Guest123_>
apeiros_ well, I've asked the question specifically previously, but no response, so, I'm raising to a higher-level question
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<Guest123_>
apeiros_ and if there is no response, I assume nobody has dealt with it and I move on
<robustus>
sounds like either odd settings or path confusion, whats your setup?
<magichands>
I just did gem install activerecord, and it installs that to ~/.gem
<magichands>
bundle install where the Gemfile says install activerecord asks for my password, gem install doesn't
<magichands>
not really interested in handing out my password to random scripts
<robustus>
are you sure, that the 'bundle'-binary is the one from your ~/.gem installation?
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* Hanmac1
does not trust bundler
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<Xeago>
apeiros_: got some spare time?
<magichands>
ok... apparently thats the default method
<apeiros_>
Xeago: yes, what's up?
<Xeago>
gf busy
<magichands>
well, done with bundler then, f-u bundler
<robustus>
alternatively you could manually set $GEM_HOME
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<robustus>
ehm yeah...
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<magichands>
yeah just weird, you'd think they'd work the same in that regard, but no
<magichands>
oh well
<magichands>
works now
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<robustus>
by the way, using ~/.gem is something that is currently (afaik) only used by archlinux
<robustus>
so your configuration problem should originate from there (since they don't set $GEM_HOME correctly)
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<havenn>
magichands: P.S., chruby is a really nice way to get ENV vars set correctly when switching between Rubies: https://github.com/postmodern/chruby
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<apeiros_>
gn8 Xeago - I'll probably not get to gaming before the week-end :(
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<lewix>
protected methods confuse me in ruby. simple explanation please
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<Guest123_>
can anyone recommend a good ldap library for Ruby?
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<banister`sleep>
lewix: they're the same as private except objects of the same class can access the methods
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<banister`sleep>
lewix: this also allows you to do self.x if x is private
<apeiros_>
Guest123_: we use net-ldap iirc
<apeiros_>
problem is, they all have about the same name
<Guest123_>
yes, I wanted to try that as well, but when I use it, it hangs on the bind() call
<apeiros_>
the version number is ridiculously low, 0.0.5 or something like that, for the last 4y
<Hanmac1>
lewix: def <=>(other) self.value <=> other.value;end this works when value is protected
<Guest123_>
I'm trying to connect to an SSL-only LDAP server
<havenn>
Guest123_: Is your Ruby properly compiled with OpenSSL?
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<havenn>
Guest123_: In irb does this work?: require 'openssl'
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: object of the same class can access private methods
<Guest123_>
havenn yes, it is compiled with ssl
<banister`sleep>
lewix: no it cant
<apeiros_>
lewix: no, only same object
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<banister`sleep>
lewix: private method means 'implicit receiver'
<apeiros_>
same object != object of the same class
<banister`sleep>
with one notable exception for writer (x=) methods
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<apeiros_>
o0
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: apeiros_: thanks give me a minute to think about that
<apeiros_>
I don't think writer methods are exempt
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<apeiros_>
it's the reason you can't use private foo= meaningfully (would always need send)
<lewix>
apeiros_: they are exempt
<apeiros_>
no they're not
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<lewix>
apeiros_: writer methods with the equal sign
<lethjakman_lapto>
is there a normal way to package ruby programs with their gemfiles?
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<havenn>
lethjakman_lapto: Not sure exactly what you mean? Usually with apps, you use a Gemfile to list the gem dependencies. With gems, you use a .gemspec file.
<Hydroxide>
havenn: went with the join option - it's easier to understand than that. thanks!
<havenn>
Hydroxide: no prob :)
<havenn>
lethjakman_lapto: or do you want to actually ship the gems themselves along with the app, instead of the normal method of bundling them?
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<havenn>
dsf: Have a link to Github or something we can pass on? Always seems like people are looking for Ruby devs but I can't think of anything right now.
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: can you give me an example of a call to a private method used by an instance of a class
<gogiel>
http://pastie.org/6384958 - wtf ? I know it shouldn't be done that way, but what is happening? Ruby 1.9
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<lewix>
banister`sleep:thanks. I'm trying to put all the pieces together
<banister`sleep>
lewix: what part isn't clicking?
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: I'm not sure. now and then I come across examples that make me think about it over.
<Amnesia>
question, I'm really interested in computer science
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<Amnesia>
does one of you folks know some course or w/e that uses ruby to explain datastructures / algoritms etc?
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: In your example, I wouldn't be able to do Hello.new.hello even if the method hello was protected, correct?
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: however, as opposed to private, the receiver of hello in the method sup could have been explicit
<lewix>
self*
<banister`sleep>
yes
<banister`sleep>
right
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: for private methods, only the object representing self at the time of execution of the method is allowed to make a call. Protected methods are the same as private methods but objects of the same class can make the call to the method. what does the later mean
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: didn't I just ask you to give me an example of a call to a private method used by an instance of a class
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<realDAB>
gogiel: i'm looking at it but i haven't figured it out yet
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<realDAB>
gogiel: it certainly isn't doing what i would have expected but there may be something i'm not seeing
<lewix>
banister`sleep: I guess this is the part that is not clickling
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<banister`sleep>
lewix: isn't that waht i did?
<banister`sleep>
Hello.new is an instance of the Hello class :)
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: right. but doesn't it conflict with the definition given earlier
<banister`sleep>
lewix: how?
<lewix>
banister`sleep: Protected methods are the same as private methods but objects of the same class can make the call to the method.
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: I'm not sure if you follow my train of thoughts
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<realDAB>
lewix: are you thinking of something like this? class Person; attr_accessor :age; protected :age; def older_than(other); self.age <=> other.age; end; end
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<lewix>
banister`sleep: it seems that objects of the same class can access the methods in either case.
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<realDAB>
lewix: in my example, you can only call other.age because other and self are of the same class and age is protected, not private