apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p0: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p392) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<tjgillies> is there something like LINQ for ruby?
<oddmunds> yes
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<tjgillies> link?
<oddmunds> what part of linq are you after?
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<tjgillies> being able to query datastructures
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<tjgillies> looks kinda cool, not very popular though
<oddmunds> ruby does what i think you want out of the box
<tjgillies> how so?
<drbrain> I make my data structures … rubyful
<drbrain> then it's no problem
<drbrain> tjgillies: for example, Enumerable#grep calls #=== on each object
<oddmunds> tjgillies: with blocks (and enumerable)
<drbrain> so implement #=== on your data structure items to match a pattern
<drbrain> and what oddmunds said
<tjgillies> ...
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<tjgillies> that seems kinda hacky, i wanted a sort of datalogy system
<oddmunds> never heard that word before
<tjgillies> what i did in clojure
<tjgillies> would be cool if i could do that in ruby
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<oddmunds> tjgillies: do you know blocks in ruby?
<tjgillies> yes
<tjgillies> im wonderin if theres already a library
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<oddmunds> ok. then i probably misunderstood your question.
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<drbrain> sounds more like AREL
<oddmunds> tjgillies: you want the sql-like syntax from linq?
<tjgillies> yes
<tjgillies> but query data structures
<drbrain> doesn't datamapper 2 have something liker his too?
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* tjgillies finds it ironic he pased a lisp file then was asked if he knew about "blocks"
<tjgillies> s/pased/pasted/
<oddmunds> tjgillies: yeah, i meant in ruby
<oddmunds> stuff have different names and different usages in different languages and places
<oddmunds> just like i thought you meant something else when you spoke of something like linq
<tjgillies> ive never used linq
<tjgillies> i just know thats what people talk about when they talk about the concepts im thinking about
<tjgillies> so i kind cargo culted that one
<tjgillies> s/kind/kinda/
<oddmunds> i use the lambda-like expressions when i use linq (probably because i'm used to using blocks in ruby)
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<oddmunds> tjgillies: that syntax reminds me a little of the loop syntax in common lisp
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<lewis1711> what's the issue? ruby has the equivalent of loads of HOF's on lists. just chain them together
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<lewis1711> tjgillies: "filter" is called "find_all" or "select" in ruby, mapping cons over two lists is the zip method. do you have a specific question?
<tjgillies> lewis1711: i was looking specifically for a datalog implementation in ruby
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<lewis1711> "Nokogiri::XML::Node is your window to the fun filled world of dealing with XML and HTML tags." they're not kidding
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<drbrain> XML is like violence. If it isn't working you're not using enough of this
<drbrain> it
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<lewis1711> drbrain: yes I saw that one too. now I feel sad inside
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<lewis1711> [
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<dkannan> how do i inetgrate two eventmachine apps. eg faye and eventmachine-tail ?
<dkannan> eh. integrate
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<tbuehlmann> dkannan, run them both in just one EM reactor
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<Ridders24> how can I out the user data from the twitter api, Ive managed to get all the other data as shown here: http://pastebin.com/Cxm20s2r but if you look at the user data the info comes under the "user" attribute, and I don't know how to call it: http://pastebin.com/2VRGXS4P
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: booyah, partial method call evaluation :D
<yorickpeterse> I really need to start renaming a few things though, it's getting a bit confusing
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<rue> Ridders24: It’s just another hash.
<Ridders24> rue: so what do I put? as ive tried ["user" "id"] and i don't get anything
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<Technodrome> is there any good rib replacement?
<Technodrome> irb*
<rue> Ridders24: What do you imagine that does?
<apeiros_> Technodrome: pry
<Technodrome> ah yes , that's what its called
<Technodrome> any others that are good?
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<Ridders24> rue: was hoping for the user id?, ive also tried ["user"] ["id]
<Technodrome> apeiros_: any others or is that the best one?
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<rue> Ridders24: How’d that work out?
<Ridders24> rue: still nothing
<Technodrome> ruby review, been doing python for a long time, a normal variable declared in a class, does that become an implicit class variable?
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<Technodrome> err i guess the better question would be, what is the difference between a class local variable and a class variable defined with @@ ? I can't see the difference
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<soahccc> Technodrome: Basically @ wont inherit while @@ will... http://www.railstips.org/blog/archives/2006/11/18/class-and-instance-variables-in-ruby/
<Technodrome> no i don't mean instance
<Technodrome> just a plain local variable to the class
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: hmm?
<Technodrome> i understand OO pretty well, did java + python for years and years, just getting back into ruby, it's been a while
<Technodrome> how does a class level local variable different from a class variable
<whitequark> Technodrome: class level local variable is scoped by the current class statement
<soahccc> Technodrome: Don't get the question :) you mean @@something = "foo" vs something = "foo"?
<whitequark> i.e. after "class A; a = 1; end" the `a` is gone
<Technodrome> you can't access it from an instance whitequark ?
<whitequark> Technodrome: yep
<Technodrome> so local variables are not accessible ?
<Technodrome> i should have just tried this :)
<whitequark> yea
<whitequark> and yes :)
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<Technodrome> in python the concept of local variables and class variables from within the class is one of the same
<Ridders24> rue: sorry im still stuck with this, how do I solve this?
<rue> Try some code.
<rue> h = {"user" => {"id" => 1}}
<rue> h["user"]
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<Technodrome> whitequark: thanks again, that was annoying me, just tried it out , stupid I know, was applying the python convention
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<Ridders24> rue: that outputs "id" => 1
<rue> It probably doesn’t output exactly that
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<Ridders24> rue: i tried doing h = {tweet['user']} then calling #{h['id']}, but i get syntax error, unexpected } expecting taSSOC
<Ridders24> rue: sorted it
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<Ridders24> rue: all works now, thanks
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<ledestin> is it still the case that sigchld doesn't have info on child pid?
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<Technodrome> is it possible to access class variables from an instance ? just curious
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<charliesome> Technodrome: you just do it
<Technodrome> charliesome: what does that mean?
<charliesome> so if you have a class variable in a class X called @@foo
<charliesome> then you can access that from instances of X by using @@foo
<charliesome> Technodrome: http://eval.in/13960
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<Technodrome> yes, you need self. and access it through the class
<Technodrome> directly on the instance though you can't access @@
<Technodrome> i don't know why, but for some reason i always thought you could
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<charliesome> Technodrome: see the 'print_foo' method, thats directly on the instance
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<Technodrome> ^^ that's a method printing it out , i guess I answered my own question :P
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<bentis> Any rdoc.info admins around, trouble connecting and it isn't just me according to downforeveryone...
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<whitequark> >> module A; Q = 1; end; module B; include A; end; B::Q
<eval-in> whitequark => 1 (http://eval.in/13961)
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<lewis1711> "page.forms_with(:action => '/post/login.php')" I don't understand this syntax.
<lewis1711> what is => ?
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<ledestin> lewis1711: it's a hash
<ledestin> just short version, w/o {}
<lewis1711> ledestin: that was my first guess - but I can't declare a hash like that in irb
<ledestin> lewis1711: puts :a => 1
<lewis1711> "a = :a => 1" fails
<lewis1711> as does just ":a => 1"
<lewis1711> super confused to be honest
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<soahccc> lewis1711: It's a feature of ruby that you can pass hash params to a method without the {} but in general you need them. you have to use method() if you want to pass {} because method {} would be a block
<havenwood> lewis1711: It is an implicit hash, works as params and such: [a: 1]; #=> [{:a=>1}]
<havenwood> lewis1711: Some call it a 'naked hash'.
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<hagabaka> lewis1711: So what you pasted is equivalent to page.forms_with({:action => '/post/login.php'}). Ruby allows it, and people do it, because it gives the illusion of supporting named parameters
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<lewis1711> ahh. the silliest thing as I had come across this once before but promptly forgot about it
<lewis1711> thanks all
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<mbj> whitequark: hi
<whitequark> mbj: hey
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: you here?
<mbj> whitequark: Just read your invitation.
<mbj> Back in 5 min with coffe.
<whitequark> mbj: yeah. let me describe a few design points meanwhile.
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<whitequark> for everyone else here: I'm writing a better ruby parser, and we're discussing the sexp format for it.
<whitequark> mbj: first. I'd like to keep as compatible as RP/PT output as it is possible, semantics wise (i.e. node names, children order). however, pointless idiosyncrasies of RB/PT should be fixed.
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: yes
<whitequark> such as, for example, 0 instead of s(:args) for empty proc args.
<whitequark> second. we need to add location information to everything, i.e. line and column spans. for this we need to decide what to do for composite nodes.
<whitequark> for example, s(:defn) spans a lot of children nodes, a lot of columns and possibly lines.
<mbj> whitequark: This will also allow more orignal source formatting + 1
<whitequark> mbj: yup.
<mbj> whitequark: Will you focus on generating sexp or an ast?
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<mbj> Both are interchangable, just curios.
<yorickpeterse> The format will be S expressions
<yorickpeterse> at least I take it will be
<whitequark> mbj: this is an interesting question. as it seems that I'm the person most suited for hacking on the lexer/parse, and as we've already figured out with yorickpeterse, it is beneficial to have a "SAX-style" parser
<whitequark> I will make the parse.y trigger callbacks which you can possibly override.
<whitequark> this is first and foremost important for linters, etc, as both sexp and ast formats lose a lot of source-level detail.
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<mbj> whitequark: It is okay for me to emit sexp. This also makes sure only a datastructure is emitted.
<mbj> If you emit an ast you could couple stuff that does not belong there.
<whitequark> mbj: s-exp format is important for compatibility with RP and is easier to work with. AST format is important for compatibility with rbx (do we need it?), and for my own projects, though I'm using sexps now too.
<whitequark> I'm actually fine with having both in the gem.
<mbj> whitequark: Maybe an AST is easier to mutate.
<yorickpeterse> wouldn't using a SAX parser solve that issue?
<whitequark> mbj: my furnace-sexp gem is designed so that exps are immutable
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: sure, but we need people to write both backends and tests for them.
<mbj> whitequark: functional style mutation (copy updates) works.
<whitequark> mbj: it is supposed to be used that way, indeed.
<mbj> whitequark: Perfect, this mirrors the style I use in mutant on the RBX ast.
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: well yeah, and I'd be happy to help once I get back from my holidays
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<mbj> TBH I'm not very used to the RP ast. Give me some sec.
<whitequark> so, let me explain my point. I'm willing to have both s-exp and AST backends, but only if I won't have to write, test and maintain both. I don't have enough time.
<whitequark> note that you need to test that for 1.8, 1.9 and 2.0.
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<mbj> whitequark: Go sexp only. I can port https://github.com/mbj/to_source to consume sexp.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse seems to prefer sexps too. so, let it be sexps.
<mbj> We need a convention where to store the source, lineno in the sexp
<whitequark> mbj: we already have this convention
<whitequark> in Furnace sexps, you subclass them and add the attr_reader's you want
<mbj> reading
<whitequark> e.g. `attr_reader :line`. you then pass `line: 1` in the constructor and it sets the corresponding ivar.
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<mbj> Got it.
<whitequark> mbj: so. now we only need a specification for the sexps themselves. which nodes can go where in which nodes, in a nutshell.
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<whitequark> and how the location info will be set.
<whitequark> mbj: suggestions?
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<mbj> whitequark: I need to try for myself, no suggestions for now.
<whitequark> mbj: "try for myself" as in?
<mbj> whitequark: The ragel state should have the linneo and column
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<whitequark> mbj: I think I should make the lexer yyvalue a tuple of [text, location]
<whitequark> right now it's just `text'
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<whitequark> this way, I could just pass tokens to whatever's handling the parser's callbacks
<mbj> whitequark: I do not know how the funace sexp gem works. I need to play around with it and imagine how to build an sexp tree from ragel callbacks.
<whitequark> the location would be [line, start_col, end_col]; I do not think we have tokens which span multiple lines
<whitequark> (heredoc strings are separated into multiple tokens)
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<whitequark> mbj: I think I'll be able to provide examples after this weekend
<whitequark> but please do explore the infrastructure :)
<mbj> whitequark: For sure
<whitequark> mbj: may I ask to what extent are you willing to work on the new parser?
<mbj> whitequark: I never wrote a parser / lexer for a turing complete language
<whitequark> i.e. "writing sexp spec", "writing sexp backend", "backend with tests". any of this would be a great help.
<mbj> whitequark: Covering nodes and add rount trip tests via a to_source port.
<mbj> *round
<mbj> whitequark: We should start with literals and round trip them
<mbj> whitequark: Than binary nodes, and than everything else.
<whitequark> excellent! I believe that is a part of RubyParser tests, too.
<mbj> So our tests are like. "assert_round_trippable, 'a = foo', [:assign, [:lvar, :a], [:call, :foo] ]"
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<mbj> whitequark: Just give it a start, I pick stuff up very quickly.
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<whitequark> let me explain the roadmap. at Monday or so I finish the ragel lexer and perform various restructurement of the repo to make it easier to work with.
<whitequark> Then I'll have to rewrite the parser to emit SAX-style events.
<mbj> whitequark: Why you forked? Lets start from scratch.
<mbj> No need for the ruby-parser history, IMHO.
<mbj> ?
<whitequark> mbj: Ok. We'll have to write all tests from scratch, then.
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<whitequark> Or no?
<mbj> No real problem. I'd love to have mutant mutation cover them.
<whitequark> There are also lexer tests.
<mbj> mom, let me take a look on the ruby-parser test suite
<whitequark> it's basically lexer tests and parser tests, some of which are in the RP repo and some are pulled from the sexp_processor gem
<mbj> whitequark: As long as there is ruby code in a def node mutant will make sure we have covering tests.
<whitequark> mbj: not sure if it is a good idea to run mutant over autogenerated bison/ragel output
<whitequark> it's enormous, and most of the changes break *everything*
<mbj> whitequark: I think more about the callbacks.
<mbj> whitequark: If we do the callback handling in a dedicated class instance we can test them.
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<whitequark> mbj: Callbacks are most often trivial...
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<mbj> whitequark: You plan to do the callback handling within the ragel output?
<whitequark> mbj: no, ragel lexer only communicates with bison parser
<whitequark> they're dependent on each other.
<whitequark> the callbacks are invoked by code in bison parser actions
<mbj> whitequark: Never worked with bison so far. I'll have to learn this part.
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<mbj> whitequark: So the ragel callbacks are consumed by bison. In this case I agree it does not make sense to mutation cover them.
<whitequark> there isn't really such a thing as "ragel callbacks", it's a sequence of tokens
<mbj> whitequark: Yeah, I used to directly create AST like structures from ragel.
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<whitequark> oh I see what you meant
<mbj> Why do we have to feed it through bison?
<whitequark> in this case, ragel actions are used to emit tokens (and various control flow all over the lexer)
<whitequark> mbj: because ragel is not sophisticated enough to parse LR(1)
<mbj> whitequark: Okay.
<whitequark> well, you kind of can hack it, but it's really not convenient
<mbj> Remember, I never wrote a parser for someting turing complete
<whitequark> the second, more important reason is that we have ruby's parse.y and it works
<whitequark> I have zero will to rewrite parse.y rules from scratch
<mbj> I was about to ask for it.
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<mbj> With parse.y we save a lot of work.
<whitequark> it's not the rules which are problem; the rules are perfectly fine
<whitequark> the lexer was the real problem.
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<mbj> The lexer was written mostly by hand, I expect.
<whitequark> it was
<mbj> whitequark: I begin to see the big picture.
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<whitequark> it was also heavily intertwined with the parser.
<whitequark> I reduced the communication between them to setting the state in the parser in, I think, five places
<whitequark> and passing the token stream back.
<whitequark> (lexer state)
<mbj> whitequark: At what granularity you plan to write tests?
<mbj> whitequark: I'd prefer to focus on round trip tests.
<mbj> whitequark: And edge case handling.
<mbj> whitequark: A traditional unit style spec is hard in this domain.
<whitequark> mbj: I don't think so. The tests currently present in RP are essentially unit tests.
<whitequark> It makes a lot of sense to unit test the lexer separately.
<mbj> You covered your lexer already?
<whitequark> With parser it's a bit harder, but I still think that unit tests are required.
<whitequark> mbj: I've reused most of the RP tests; yes.
<whitequark> actually I have the parser covered either.
<whitequark> for same reason.
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<mbj> whitequark: Would it be okay for you to use the ruby style from https://github.com/dkubb/styleguide/blob/master/RUBY-STYLE
<mbj> whitequark: I'd open PRs to adjust the present code to this rules.
<mbj> whitequark: There arent big differencies, but I see some.
<whitequark> mbj: just a sec
<mbj> whitequark: We used this ruby style to build dm2 components and I'm very used to it.
<mbj> whitequark: The biggest differend is your (non) use of optional parentheses
<mbj> s/differend/difference/ not a native speaker ;)
<mbj> whitequark: I'd also love to use the devtools https://github.com/datamapper/devtools it ships some metric tools and boilerplate (and mutant).
<whitequark> mbj: I'm mostly following the Github style guide
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<whitequark> note that a lot of code currently in RP will a) be removed b) wasn't written by me
<whitequark> so far, I only really wrote the ruby_lexer.rl.
<whitequark> (devtools) if that's not a runtime requirement, I'm fine
<mbj> Its a development dep
<whitequark> I'd like to keep runtime requirements to a bare minimum (only furnace-sexp)
<mbj> full ack
<whitequark> very well.
<mbj> maybe you'll also love adamantium
<mbj> It is a runtime dep I ship with most of my stuff.
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<mbj> whitequark: So lets use a from scratch repo? or not.
<whitequark> mbj: adamantium is pretty neat but the code in furnace-sexp suffices for our tasks, I believe
<mbj> No problem.
<mbj> I do not cargo cult deps ;)
<whitequark> mbj: let's start from scratch and pull in only the RP/PT tests and parse.y's.
<mbj> whitequark: Yeah.
<mbj> whitequark: You have a name?
<whitequark> *parse.y rules.
<mbj> whitequark: a very solid one. I like it ;)
<whitequark> (currently a placeholder)
<whitequark> hehe
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<whitequark> mbj: ok. I'll do some infrastructural work today. repo, gemspec, licensing/attribution, travis etc.
<whitequark> what timezone are you in?
<mbj> whitequark: So just create a repo on gh. I'll open PRs for big changes and commit directly for stuff like doc fixes?
<mbj> whitequark: CEST
<mbj> whitequark: you?
<whitequark> UTC+$
<whitequark> err +4
<mbj> whitequark: heh
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<whitequark> I'm often active at nights though.
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<mbj> whitequark: Me too we'll overlap on UTC 20:00 - 24:00
<mbj> whitequark: BTW I'd love to convert tests to rspec
<mbj> whitequark: Longterm, no need to delay us in the beggining with this task.
<whitequark> mbj: umm... let's not do that.
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<mbj> whitequark: Can we use YARD for docs?
<whitequark> minitest just works :)
<whitequark> mbj: YARD, sure.
<mbj> whitequark: Its your project, your rules. I just like rspec more.
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<mbj> whitequark: Also mutant does not have a minitest runner ;)
<whitequark> we can always write one :)
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<drbrain> whenever I read the source of a YARD project I can never understand the documentation
<drbrain> it's as if I need to learn yet another programming language
<whitequark> drbrain: I think that people frequently go overboard with YARD.
<mbj> drbrain: Because of the YARD comments?
<whitequark> it's a valuable tool if used with care, IMO.
<dominikh> if a bunch of tags can throw you off, oh boy :)
<drbrain> mbj: because of YARD comments, yes
<mbj> drbrain: or because of the code, this would not be yards fault ;)
<mbj> drbrain: You ever read the veritas source / YARD ?
<whitequark> drbrain: any specific problems with these?
<mbj> drbrain: this is IMHO a very valuable way to use it.
<drbrain> I may have only seen "overboard" projects using YARD, though
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<whitequark> drbrain: I'll keep that in mind.
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<drbrain> I much prefer the TomDoc route for enforced structure
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<whitequark> drbrain: hm. TomDoc seems like an extrapolation of Markdown to the code. Neat. I like it.
<mbj> whitequark: We plan to write an SQL parser for datamapper 2
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<mbj> whitequark: So I think we can adapt some of the stuff I learn in this project to it.
<whitequark> mbj: very well :)
<drbrain> mbj: consider incorporating the SQLite parser, it'll probably save you some time, provided you're comfortable with yacc-based grammars
<mbj> whitequark: I prefer YARD for the existance of yardstick.
<whitequark> mbj: ok. I'll be back in ~1.5 hours, need to get home while public transport still works.
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<whitequark> also +1 on drbrain's suggestion, that definitely seems like a good route.
<mbj> drbrain: thx, will forward this to dkubb!
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<mbj> whitequark: Russia?
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<drbrain> mbj: see also https://github.com/tenderlove/gda
<autarch> not sure if my last message got through - I'm getting an error trying to install the debugger-linecache gem - https://gist.github.com/autarch/5277766
<mbj> drbrain: I think we'll go for a poro solution.
<mbj> drbrain: s/poro/puru/ ;)
<autarch> It looks like it can't find some headers it's looking for - is this a ruby version issue?
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<mbj> drbrain: But this could speed us up a lot, thx again!
<mbj> Is this channel logged somewhere? So I can point dkubb to this discussion?
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<drbrain> mbj: whitequark keeps an online log
<drbrain> I forget the URL
<drbrain> autarch: it sounds like the gem hasn't been updated for your version of ruby
<mbj> drbrain: found it, thx
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<autarch> weird, if I do "gem install debugger" manually it seems to work
<autarch> it just wasn't happy doing it via "bundle install"
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: mbj: sorry for the AFK'ness, I was on the phone
<yorickpeterse> just finished reading the log
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<mbj> yorickpeterse: no problem
<mbj> yorickpeterse: what do you like/dislike on the current state of the discussion?
<yorickpeterse> neutral, I need to get my hands dirty with some code before I can form a solid opinion. Having said that, I do like the direction of SAX/sexp for the parser.
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<yorickpeterse> Though I'm not sure if I understand the use of parse.y since it emits C code, and not Ruby
<yorickpeterse> which would prevent it from working on jruby
<mbj> yorickpeterse: I think bison can also emit ruby
<mbj> yorickpeterse: I'd love jruby compat, the main reason I'm participating here is to port mutant to jruby
<yorickpeterse> from what I've been told Bison only does C/C++, you'd need to use racc for Ruby
<mbj> yorickpeterse: Also I plan to do more ruby ast processing and the RBX ast is good but aligned to the bytecode emitter needs to closely
<yorickpeterse> and since parse.y contains C code directly I'm not sure if that would work out
<mbj> I'm currently googling for bsion and ruby
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<mbj> yorickpeterse: The parse.y whitequark created does not have C anymore
<mbj> yorickpeterse: The C that was in the parse.y did the lexing this one is C-free https://github.com/whitequark/ruby_parser/blob/master/lib/ruby18_parser.y
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<mbj> yorickpeterse: The lexering is now ragel
<mbj> yorickpeterse: *lexing, sorry for all those typos, my family demands half of my brainpower
<yorickpeterse> no worries
<yorickpeterse> Hm, I'd have to talk with whitequark about that. I recall him saying something about that parser.y being weird but I'm not sure
<yorickpeterse> * ruby*_parser.y
<mbj> yorickpeterse: AFAIK he cleaned it up.
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<mbj> So the original *.y from MRI mixed rules with lexing
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<whitequark> mbj: yorickpeterse: the author of whatever's in parse.y currently is not me
<whitequark> it's half ruby core team (rules), half zenspider (actions)
<whitequark> I've also used bison in the sense of "racc" in this discussion, as racc is pretty much bison ported to ruby
<mbj> whitequark: But the current parse.y is suitable? I understood the rules are fine.
<yxhuvud> really? I'd have thought racc was basically yacc ported to ruby?
<whitequark> mbj: the rules are fine, the actions will be rewritten anyway to accomodate for SAX
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<whitequark> yxhuvud: let's not bikeshed this. racc = bison = yacc
<mbj> whitequark: Wikipedia documents racc as yacc port and bsion as the yacc successor. Confusion cleaned up.
<whitequark> it doesn't really matter
<whitequark> not here at least
<mbj> I thought parse.y contains stuff that is not capable by yacc/racc
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<whitequark> mbj: no, not really. parse.y in MRI also contains the lexer, though.
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<mbj> whitequark: got it. But the current parse.y is racc compatible.
<whitequark> mbj: the parse.y in ruby_parser is obviously racc compatible, it's handled by racc
<whitequark> the rules in MRI are also racc compatible.
<mbj> whitequark: okay
<whitequark> mbj: yorickpeterse: https://github.com/whitequark/parser
<whitequark> you are committers
<whitequark> travis will be enabled soon.
<zzak> drbrain: any ideas on referencing local images with rdoc? (bonus points for markdown parser)
<zzak> seems to want an external url
<mbj> whitequark: thx
<drbrain> zzak: you need --copy-files
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: noticed it
<whitequark> mbj: the parse.y rules are not yet there
<whitequark> travis should be enabled now
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<mbj> whitequark: I think I can start next monday
<mbj> whitequark: currently I'm bound with commercial stuff and family ;)
<whitequark> mbj: excellent! thank you again.
<whitequark> this really helps me.
<mbj> whitequark: Until now I did not added code ;)
<zzak> drbrain: i tried that, but in markdown ![whatever](local.png) was parsed as http://local.png
<whitequark> mbj: you are going to :)
<drbrain> zzak: does this hack work: ://local.png
<drbrain> it may be a bug in the markdown parser/formatter
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<zzak> drbrain: <img src="http://://assets/liiv-overview.png">
<drbrain> heh
<drbrain> can you file a bug?
<zzak> drbrain: yes sir
<zzak> drbrain: whats the syntax to try this in rdoc?
<zzak> file: or ?
<drbrain> I think file: that ends in .png, .jpg
<drbrain> I'd have to poke around to find out
<zzak> np
<zzak> {whatever}[file:foo.png] just creates a link
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<zzak> i couldnt find any docs on using images in rdoc either
<zzak> just old stuff that says use [img:foo]
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<drbrain> I think there are tests for the img: stuff
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<mbj> whitequark: I'm out for now, wish you a happy weekend.
<mbj> drbrain, yorickpeterse: Same for you.
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<whitequark> zzak: what about ![](/foo.png) ?
<zzak> whitequark: http:///foo.png
<whitequark> zzak: what parser do you use?
<zzak> rdoc markdown
<zzak> i would use plain rdoc, but not sure how to create an image using it
<whitequark> oh, why does rdoc use its own markdown parser? :(
<zzak> and cant find any docs or tests that tell you how, except for {<img src=}[foo]
<zzak> because its awesome
<whitequark> people share code exactly to avoid problems like this, no?
<zzak> what does that mean
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<whitequark> well I meant that if rdoc used, for example, kramdown, there will be no need to reimplement the parser and you'll have awesome features of kramdown for free. no?
<drbrain> whitequark: does kramdown provide a syntax tree?
<drbrain> whitequark: an HTML-only markdown parser doesn't work for `ri`
<drbrain> bleu, hand-written parser
<drbrain> rdoc's parser is a port of peg-markdown
<whitequark> bleu, peg ;)
<drbrain> oh, I didn't know kramdown was MIT now
<whitequark> (why? because either exponential time or space. but nevermind.)
<whitequark> drbrain: I think kramdown has the best design of all the markdown parsers I've seen
<whitequark> it's quite flexible and I don't think there would be any problems with ri output module.
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<drbrain> whitequark: previously it was GPL which meant I couldn't bring it into ruby
<whitequark> drbrain: I see. What about now?
<drbrain> now it could happen, but I'm unsure if I would be willing to do the work
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<drbrain> my port started last June, I think
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<drbrain> kramdown has been MIT for just under 3 weeks now
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<whitequark> sure.
<whitequark> I'm fairly sure I'm going to use either this, or rdoc-tomdoc...
<whitequark> thanks for telling me about tomdoc btw, I really like it.
<mbj> whitequark: Back, do not have to run.
<drbrain> if kramdown was MIT licensed last year I would have worked to import or integrate it into RDoc
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<whitequark> mbj: what do you think about using tomdoc for parser?
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<mbj> whitequark: Does it have something like yardstick? A tool that ensures coverage?
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<whitequark> mbj: there's a plugin for both yard and rdoc.
<whitequark> ie it is not a documentation tool on its own, it's just a description format which is way more readable than yard tags.
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<mbj> whitequark: As I said, your repo your rules. I'm trained very much to use yardstick.
<mbj> whitequark: So I can parse the yardstick commends very fast when browsing code
<mbj> whitequark: the @notation has a good visual signature for the eyes
<r0bglees0n> whitequark: it can't describe as much as YARD metatags, though.
<mbj> whitequark: I'd miss yardstick a lot.
<mbj> whitequark: We use yardstick in devtools in a way rake ci fails if you missed a required tag
<mbj> for the others listening, devtools is a metagem we use in dm2 development.
<yorickpeterse> I think tools like these are way overkill for now
<whitequark> I agree with yorickpeterse
<yorickpeterse> I'd much rather focus on writing the parser and tests than documentation/code coverage
<yorickpeterse> Things will change too often anyway
<whitequark> this is actually the first time I ever hear about documentation coverage measurement, to be honest
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<r0bglees0n> yard has had that for a while. rdoc came soon after.
<whitequark> I'm not opposed to yard so I think we may give it & yardstick a try
<whitequark> r0bglees0n: in the yardstick sense, I've meant
<r0bglees0n> ah okay.
<whitequark> yard measures just the covered classes/methods; yardstick is really much more thorough, it checks docs for parameters, return values, etc
<whitequark> I can see value in that but it's a lot of work and sometimes I believe this can lead to great redundancy
<whitequark> the parameter "is_boolean" is kinda self explanatory, there is really no need to attach an yard tag to it.
<yorickpeterse> stuff like that should be put in once the code is coming together, not from the start
<yorickpeterse> it only slows development down
<r0bglees0n> whitequark: well, yard actually tries to be smart and makes a smart guess in some cases.
<r0bglees0n> for example, in the case of #initialize
<whitequark> r0bglees0n: yeah I've seen that
<zzak> drbrain: im only able to show the image using rdoc when i do: {<img src=foo />}[bar]
<mbj> whitequark: You can rise the documentation coverage bar
<mbj> whitequark: you do not have to start with 100%
<mbj> whitequark: But it is good to notice if your coverage drops below your current thresold
<drbrain> zzak: image support in RDoc has always been limited :/
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<whitequark> mbj: let's start with free-form documentation and see how that goes
<mbj> yorickpeterse: I'd opt to use yardstick with a thresold of 0% once it increases the task will notice and we can adjust
<yorickpeterse> I'd opt not to use it until it's actually useful. There's no point in adding X, keeping it at zero usage when things are still moving around
<mbj> whitequark: Als long as you do not reject my yard style commits I can accept this ;)
<yorickpeterse> might as well add it when needed
<whitequark> mbj: let's see how it goes.
<mbj> yorickpeterse: I used those tools successfuly in greenfield projects. Both commercial and opensource.
<yorickpeterse> now to finish my Euruko proposal
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<whitequark> mbj: yard is fine but I'd really want to avoid documenting obvious things.
<whitequark> that just litters the code with useless comments
<mbj> whitequark: So you only document public api?
<whitequark> mbj: no no, why only public api? I was talking about attaching a comment like "Creates a boolean node." for the `def create_boolean_node`, etc.
<mbj> For me writing documentation is a very good step to think about the code.
<mbj> Once I have to document stuff like create_boolean I ask my self: Can I describe this in a few words. If I'm not capable it might need a redesign.
<zzak> drbrain: np, just have a very special usecase for this and wanted to use rdoc
<mbj> whitequark: We'll see how it goes ;)
<whitequark> mbj: I see. I'm not going to reject commits because they have too much docs :D
<r0bglees0n> yorickpeterse: where is the next heroku?
<r0bglees0n> yorickpeterse: haha, i mean, euruko*
<yorickpeterse> http://euruko2013.org/
<yorickpeterse> june
<r0bglees0n> in athens,cool
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<whitequark> hrm, it doesn't seem that jruby can install the racc gem
<whitequark> so I can't test anything done with racc on jruby :/
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<yorickpeterse> there we go, proposal submitted
<whitequark> the C part is not even required for generating the grammar :/
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: racc uses a C extension so you'll have to enable the ability to compile it
<yorickpeterse> not sure what the option for it was though
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I don't need the extension!
<whitequark> just to generate the grammar
<yorickpeterse> hm
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<whitequark> drbrain: is it by any chance possible to install a gem without C extensions?
<whitequark> that is, install a gem which features extconf.rb without activating that file.
<mbj> whitequark: You could generate the file on another ruby and check it into repo. Not ideal.
<r0bglees0n> that'd just install the gem in a broken state im pretty sure
<r0bglees0n> just fetch the gem
<whitequark> mbj: I'm not checking a 6KLOC file which changes with every commit in the repo
<whitequark> and changes almost completely. that makes diffs unreadable.
<r0bglees0n> actually, i wonder does rubygems have something for this, since EM has a pure ruby reactor, so you don't technically need the C code.
<whitequark> r0bglees0n: I'm trying to use the parts of racc gem which do not require its C extension
<r0bglees0n> i guess the solution would be a separate gem. i havent seen anything specific for that.
<r0bglees0n> whitequark: yeah.. i think gem fetch & ruby -I fetched_dir/lib is the easiest way
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<mbj> whitequark: Repackaging racc in a fork and use this one via Gemfile?
<mbj> whitequark: Or the build task could use mri to generate the file under jruby?
<whitequark> mbj: gem fetch sounds like the easiest way
<mbj> whitequark: You'll also use the gem fetch strategy under ci?
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<whitequark> mbj: actually no, I think the right way is to send a pull request to racc with jruby compat.
<mbj> whitequark: heh, you are correct here ;)
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<mbj> whitequark: To bad rubygems does not have platform specific dependencies.
<whitequark> mbj: but I always depend on racc
<r0bglees0n> mbj: it does.
<r0bglees0n> mbj: you can build different gems for different 'platforms' (ruby impls)
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<mbj> r0bglees0n: Sure? So I could add a dependency to foo when I'm under MRI and bar when I'm under jruby ? And do this via the .gemspec ?
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<ykk> how much would things slow down if you used a ruby interface to use a c library
<r0bglees0n> mbj: yes, I'm sure. as i said you build different *gems*.
<r0bglees0n> mbj: for example, here is pry for jruby: http://rubygems.org/gems/pry/versions/1.0.0.pre1-java
<r0bglees0n> it has a 'spoon' dependency.
* whitequark looks into racc's source and sighs
<whitequark> >task :fuck_me do
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<r0bglees0n> it does not have a spoon dependency.
<whitequark> guess who wrote that. I do not even *have to guess anymore*
<ykk> theoretically if someone was to run a dos would it hurt it;s performance if you did it through ruby
<ykk> not that i would do this
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<ykk> or am i completely not understanding it
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<mbj> r0bglees0n: Got the idea. This does not work for Gemfiles with :git sources?
<r0bglees0n> ykk: eh, when does a DoS not hurt performance? or are you asking how long would ruby withstand a DoS?
<ykk> well my question is ambigious in nature due to my lack of understanding
<r0bglees0n> mbj: i dont think so
<ykk> *bows*
<r0bglees0n> mbj: but i dont know
<ykk> my foo is like an 8 year old doing tae kwon do
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<mbj> r0bglees0n: I'm trying to simplify the dm2 devtools. Currently we carry a shared portion of the Gemfile around as Gemfile.devtools
<ykk> maybe not that bad.... more like 12, gonna blossom soon and hit hard
<mbj> r0bglees0n: The idea is to synchronize the development dependencies of our libs in a central distribution point.
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<r0bglees0n> mbj: eval open("http://cdn.com/gemfile.shared").read :-P
<whitequark> r0bglees0n: ugh
<mbj> r0bglees0n: Heh, for what reason I'd dislike this ;)
<r0bglees0n> i couldnt resist :]
<whitequark> mbj: there are multiple problems...
<whitequark> racc cannot be used with :git
<whitequark> racc gem can't even be built on modern rubies (it requires -I.)
<mbj> whitequark: So we have to fix our deps first. I expected this.
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<mbj> whitequark: I do not have the time to jump in *now*. Sorry.
<whitequark> I can fix that myself, probably...
<r0bglees0n> tweetin on the twittertubez
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<freedrull> anyone know why i get a 406 here.... https://gist.github.com/mcfiredrill/5278283
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<mbj> freedrull: played around with your browser Accept header?
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<freedrull> -H 'Accept: application/json'
<freedrull> looks ok?
<r0bglees0n> freedrull: your header is fine, the issue is the endpoint does not spit back JSON.
<yfeldblum> does Kernel#rand use any sort of synchronization that Random#rand can skip?
<r0bglees0n> at least not as application/json
<mbj> freedrull: Ohhh, I thought you cannot access this gist... sorry.
<mbj> freedrull: That the problem is described IN the gist did not came into my mind ;)
<freedrull> oh haha
<freedrull> woops
<freedrull> should have been more clear
<mbj> freedrull: Do not worry, I'm not a native speaker ;)
<r0bglees0n> freedrull: what does the rails controller for login look like?
<drbrain> yfeldblum: doesn't look like it
<drbrain> the both call rand_init
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<freedrull> r0bglees0n: its just "devise/sessions#create"
<freedrull> get "/login" => "devise/sessions#new"
<r0bglees0n> freedrull: i dont know. the accept header looks fine. maybe you need to add ".json" to /login
<freedrull> gah
<r0bglees0n> are you sure devise supports auth with JSON?
<freedrull> hmm nope same errors
<freedrull> r0bglees0n: hmm maybe not. i'll check out these functions im calling in the devise source
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<r0bglees0n> the response seems to say it doesnt.
<mbj> Going for lunch, maybe back later
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<freedrull> r0bglees0n: maybe my routes are wrong
<freedrull> Processing by Devise::SessionsController#create as JSON
<freedrull> that should probably just say SessionsController
<r0bglees0n> that looks right
<r0bglees0n> it looks right if you want to go through devise
<r0bglees0n> and devise is saying, i dont know how to handle your request body (JSON)
<freedrull> but i dont, i want to go through my controller that inherits from it
<freedrull> ah ok i fixed it
<r0bglees0n> ah okay
<freedrull> post "/login" => "sessions#create"
<r0bglees0n> cool
<freedrull> sorry i probably should've asked #rubyonrails
<r0bglees0n> its cool
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<ykk> ok seriously
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<rue> Sure
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: defining a neat SAX interface for parse.y is going to be a lot of work :/
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<zzak> whitequark: btw i think 1-4-stable is the branch you want to work off on Racc
<zzak> drbrain: have you seen this yet? https://github.com/rdoc/rdoc/pull/205 thinking about maybe just making it a gem
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<whitequark> zzak: oh neat, it already includes jruby support
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: how so? The general concept is fairly simple
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<yorickpeterse> unless parse.y works from outer to inner, instead of the other way around
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: of course it works from inner to outer
<mbj> whitequark: You created lexer.rl from reverseing the handwritten C in MRI parse.y? Or is there some kind of documentation for all these details such as nested heredocs?
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<whitequark> mbj: mostly by treating Ruby MRI as a black box and trying to find a minimal sensible algorithm producing the same result
<whitequark> I did reverse-engineer EXPR_* stuff
<whitequark> the heredoc part was blackboxed.
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: in that case it shouldn't be that har
<yorickpeterse> * hard
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: there are tons of slightly different but essentially the same cases in parse.y
<whitequark> like four variants of `alias`
<zzak> whitequark: its stdlib
<zzak> so jruby has a racc
<whitequark> zzak: I want to run the racc executable to generate a grammar
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: are we talking about "a lot of work" in terms of quantity or complexity?
<whitequark> because CI
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: complexity, mostly. to avoid turning it into quantity :)
<yorickpeterse> heh
<zzak> whitequark: ^
<whitequark> zzak: the bin/racc in the racc gem.
<whitequark> to turn a .y file to .rb file
<zzak> does the gem install?
<whitequark> nope
<zzak> because of the cext?
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> for some reason the -java variant is not on rubygems.org
<whitequark> it is built in 1-4-stable branch
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<whitequark> but no one pushed it
<zzak> hmm
<zzak> either file a ticket to have it pushed
<zzak> or file a ticket to have jruby include their own bin
<whitequark> zzak: headius said once that the gem should be pushed
<zzak> its just not a priority lib, so you have to be persistent
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<whitequark> :/
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<zzak> honestly, it could use a maintainer
<zzak> if you're interested
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<zzak> i could recommend you, and also be willing to help
<whitequark> zzak: I'm using it quite extensively
<zzak> theres a few patches i want to get in
<whitequark> so I am interested indeed
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<whitequark> evilmartians/liquor, now whitequark/parser depend on racc
<zzak> great
<zzak> just remember its a stdlib gem for mri
<whitequark> sure.
<zzak> i would write a proposal to ruby-core
<zzak> ask to be maintainer
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<zzak> tenderlove hasnt resigned per-se, zenspider has been sorta helping out too
<zzak> but if its something you really want to do, then i say go for it
<whitequark> more something I have to do
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<zzak> that too
<whitequark> racc is a great library and it's a pity it's undermaintained.
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<zzak> try to give specifics
<zzak> and offer a good maintanence proposal
<zzak> you may also ask for commit, since you will be maintaining the stdlib too
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<zzak> and doing imports from time to time
<whitequark> zzak: thanks; I'll keep that in mind
<zzak> some sort of roadmap might be helpful too
<zzak> and certainly mention why you deserve to be maintainer
<zzak> whitequark: good luck!
<whitequark> zzak: thanks :)
<zzak> always good to see new contributors
<zzak> especially when they're willing to step up
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