ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<postmodern> when in doubt, pre-release :)
<erikh> there's a dirty joke there that's not worth getting banned over
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<zenspider> flog 3.0.0.b1 released
<zenspider> minitest 3.3.0 released
<zenspider> man... this is slow...
<zenspider> zentest 4.8.2 released
<zenspider> blargh
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<nofxxx> which ruby news (news/aggregators) you guys visit?
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<Rezwan> nofxxx: you mean forum/message board?
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<nofxxx> Rezwan, nope, news, blogs/aggregators
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<nofxxx> rubyflow, rubyinside...
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<whitequark> erikh: could you satisfy my useless curiosity?
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<denysonique> Hi
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<yorickpeterse> https://gist.github.com/3187593 Oh god, what have I done
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: http://github.com/whitequark/coldruby
<whitequark> and I was basically hired to work on a... more advanced version of the same stuff right now
<yorickpeterse> ...you're actually paid to convert Ruby to JS?
<whitequark> I'm developing a multipurpose Ruby static analysis tool
<whitequark> my ultimate goal is to kill C on microcontrollers
<whitequark> yes, that. no, I'm not crazy
<yorickpeterse> Ah
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<yorickpeterse> Well, this Gist mostly served as an experiment to see how well suited Ripper is for writing a Linter
<whitequark> JavaScript backend is significantly easier to write than an LLVM one
<whitequark> hence, it'll probably be an intermediate step.
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: check out laser:
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<Defusal> whitequark, have you checked out mruby?
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: Laser hasn't been updated since 2011
<yorickpeterse> I also noticed it wasn't very easy to customize in terms of custom linters, what to exclude, etc. Though I haven't looked that deeply into it
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: What exactly are you using for parsing Ruby code for Coldruby?
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<apeiros_> whitequark: woah?!? kill C on microcontrollers? and replace it with ruby?
<apeiros_> that's so tweetworthy…
<whitequark> Defusal: yep, of course
<whitequark> but it's slow as a dog, nor would it fit in e.g. 8K of RAM
<Defusal> whitequark, its very new and definitely not complete
<Defusal> it will be a while before they get to optimization
<Defusal> but it will get there
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<whitequark> Defusal: they will never reach the performance you could get with a decent LLVM nacbackend
<whitequark> apeiros_: with "ruby". you could never manage to run a full ruby implementation on an STM32 with 8K of RAM.
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<whitequark> but you definitely can run a language with Ruby syntax and mostly compatible stdlib there.
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<whitequark> that is, Ruby enough to be considrered a Ruby omimplemnententation.
<rue> What IS that word?
<rue> How did that happen?
<yorickpeterse> that's a feature
<whitequark> erm.
<whitequark> that was a mosh+irssi glitch, sorry :)
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<Defusal> mruby is modular
<Defusal> you only compile and include what you need
<Defusal> i think it will get to a point where the minimal core required to use the ruby syntax is very small and highly optimized
<Defusal> but it will take a while
<whitequark> it's a fucking interpreter.
<whitequark> you don't use interpreters on microcontrollers.
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<whitequark> why? slow and very power- and memory-hungry
<Defusal> i do look forward to being able to use it for microprocessor code in the future
<Defusal> whitequark, you do know it can already compile to C right?
<whitequark> then you're doing it wrong
<whitequark> hm.
<whitequark> maybe I missed something
<Defusal> it is *a lot* more than just "a fucking interpreter"
<Defusal> indeed ;)
<whitequark> ah, it translates bytecode to C
<whitequark> well, what I'm trying to do is to do whole-program static analysis and aggressive inlining.
<whitequark> def add(x, y) x + y; end will translate exactly to "add r0, r0, r1" on ARM.
<whitequark> (omitting call convention details, of course)
<whitequark> or, similarly, if an object is restricted to the scope of current function it will be allocated on stack
<whitequark> or so on.
<whitequark> the most prominent core changes will be typed arrays and hashes, which are basically required to generate anyhow efficient code
<whitequark> (try write an FFT in mruby with untyped arrays and you'll understand why)
<whitequark> and I'm absolutely sure that whatever workflow which requires you to know both Ruby and C and interoperate them is FUBAR.
<whitequark> even worse, having intertwined Ruby and C code prevents both compilers from optimizing across the language boundaries.
<whitequark> whereas with LLVM, you can at least generate bitcode and then do LTO, if you absolutely need to have some C code inside
<whitequark> eg libraries
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<whitequark> *if an object's lifetime
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<whitequark> ... silence as usual :)
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<rue> I blame scrollback
<rue> And not having anything to add
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<rue> Oh, lookit that, I’m already watching the repo
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<whitequark> rue: that thingy is in maintenance mode
<whitequark> you might want to watch whitequark/foundry instead
<whitequark> expect usable prototypes in the end of October or something like that.
<rue> Todoo
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<Shvillr> Hello guys. It would seem CSV is quite picky in what it allows as quote_char: https://gist.github.com/3188554 Is that what is happening and what can I do about it? This happens with MRI 1.9.3p125 and not with 1.9.2p180 and 1.9.1p430.
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<rue> Egads I find the ?+ hard to read, looks like a regexp
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<rue> Just use "+" and so on
<whitequark> especially now that in 1.9 it's just a string.
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<rue> Shvillr: So the newline is throwing it off, it seems
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<rue> Interessant
<Shvillr> Thing is, when quote_char is ' or " (and the line to parse uses that char, of course), it parses just fine. Also, CSV 2.4.7 and earlier parse it fine, + and all. It's just non-quote non-alphanumerics in CSV 2.4.8, it seems.
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<apeiros_> yeah, since 1.9, ?<char> has become useless outside code-golf
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<whitequark> apeiros_: btw, I'm now tweeting exclusively in English
<whitequark> because, well, there seems to be quite a few people who both follow me and do not know russian
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<apeiros_> ^^
<apeiros_> whitequark: I think it's no problem to tweet bilingually
<apeiros_> it'd be nice if twitter allowed to mark the tweets, though
<whitequark> apeiros_: generally, everyone who I'm care about should already know English good enough
<apeiros_> I mean they can easily provide a good deafult
<apeiros_> (language detection isn't that hard)
<whitequark> maybe sometimes I'll set up a _en account and make a bot which retweets
<whitequark> or _ru
<whitequark> but now I'm too lazy
<apeiros_> :)
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<cout> I don't get twitter
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<cout> I tried it, but I don't get it
<workmad3> cout: it's a free service for advertising what you had for breakfast
<whitequark> put it in your pipe... and smoke it!
<whitequark> actually, think of twitter as of push-rss.
<whitequark> that's how I use it
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<erikh> whitequark: what's up?
<whitequark> erikh: 04:02 < erikh> there's a dirty joke there that's not worth getting banned over
<whitequark> and I'm too stupid to figure out.
<erikh> eh, there are lots of sexual jokes about pre-release
<erikh> anyhow, I'm not going any farther than that
<whitequark> oh, that's what you were talking about
<whitequark> duh
<erikh> :)
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<imperator2> i don't suppose there's a String#base64_encoded? method
<apeiros_> def base64?; dup.force_encode('binary') !~ /[\x40-\xff]/n; end
<apeiros_> hm, incomplete, though…
<apeiros_> should check for the padding too
<apeiros_> (even then it's not a guarantee, though)
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<apeiros_> but I guess decoding and rescuing the exception is easier :)
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<yorickpeterse> def base64?; Base64.encode64(self) == self; end # Comedy option
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<lianj> def base64?; self.unpack("m")[0] != ''; end
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: um… no
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: there's a reason I called it the comedy option :)
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: ok, I guess I don't consider "not working" to be comedy :-/
<imperator2> lianj, "hello".unpack('m')[0] => "\x85\xE9e"
<erikh> you could also decode it
<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: oh derp, of course that doesn't work
<yorickpeterse> Don't mind me, I'm just being a bit clueless tonight
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<lianj> imperator2: mh, maybe unpack("m0") rescue false then
<apeiros_> imperator2: repack and see whether it's equal
<lianj> or that
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<erikh> err, the base64 question.
<imperator2> see if it's equal to what?
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<erikh> ""
<erikh> decode64 will return an empty string if it can't decode it.
<apeiros_> imperator2: to the original string
<apeiros_> unpacked = str.unpack("m"); unpacked.pack("m") == str
<imperator2> let's assume it's an arbitrary string and I don't know what the original string is :)
<apeiros_> imperator2: eh?
<apeiros_> you have the string that might be in base64, right?
<apeiros_> so you decode it, recode it and look whether the result is the same as the source…
<imperator2> i've received the string over the wire
<apeiros_> just as illustrated
<apeiros_> ok, I don't know where your block is…
<lianj> apeiros_: "MTI=".unpack("m").pack("m") add a newline
<apeiros_> lianj: ah yes, have to normalize
<apeiros_> deleting all newlines should be sufficient
<lianj> m0
<apeiros_> lianj: source too…
<apeiros_> so: def valid_base64?; unpack("m0").pack("m0") == delete("\n"); end
<apeiros_> but all it tells you is still whether it *might* be base64
<lianj> with unpack("m0") it will raise if the input has a newline or is invalid otherwise
<apeiros_> ah, well, then just m, not m0
<apeiros_> and delete("\n") on the left too
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<apeiros_> 3rd: def valid_base64?; unpack("m").pack("m").delete("\n") == delete("\n"); end
<erikh> imperator2: did you try the decode64 method?
<lianj> or only pack with m0 :D dunno, but funny how the question evolved
<erikh> not trying to be an ass; I did and it just returns an empty string for garbage
<erikh> seems like a simpler solution.
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<imperator2> erikh, Bae64.decode64("hello") # => "\x85\xE9e"
<erikh> hello is valid base64
<erikh> irb(main):003:0> Base64.decode64("AA******") => ""
<erikh> note that * is not part of the Base64 charset
<erikh> and A is
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<erikh> so it's not truncating.
<imperator2> maybe so, but i think apeiros_ and lianj's solutions do what i want :)
<erikh> fair enough!
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<apeiros_> it's the same as with most encodings
<apeiros_> you can exclude some because they're not valid
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<apeiros_> but the string may well be valid in multiple encodings at the same time - having different meanings in each
<imperator2> ok
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<imperator2> just trying to simplify some client/server code where a token -may- have been base64 encoded
<apeiros_> ambiguous protocols--
<imperator2> thanks for your help and ideas
<apeiros_> useless IMO
<Mon_Ouie> In that case the server should just tell if the token was encoded
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<imperator2> i thought this would be, uh, nicer i guess
<imperator2> they have such a method in the Base64 class in the apache commons codec
<imperator2> so i thought it might be useful for ruby
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<imperator2> Bae64.isArrayByteBase64
<imperator2> er, Base64 even
<lianj> imperator2: just prefix a token type value?
<lianj> imperator2: and what does it say about hello?
<Mon_Ouie> Knowing that it is valid base64 doesn't tell you that it is supposed to be interpreted in base64
<apeiros_> imperator2: that name is misleading
<apeiros_> what Mon_Ouie said
<apeiros_> just because it's valid base64 doesn't make it base64
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<imperator2> ok
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<rue> Surprised nobody brought out themodulo
<imperator2> happy sysadmin day for all you sysadmin types
<imperator2> rue, not themodulo!
<rue> Yes!
<imperator2> show us please
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<yorickpeterse> themodulo?
<yorickpeterse> Do you mean % ?
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<erikh> imperator2: thanks!
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<kristofferrr> Anyone know of a gem with good YARD documentation? Looking for some inspiration on how to use YARD for my own stuff.
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<zzak> erikh: cheers!
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<JeremieDeNoob> anyone know a good gem for a blog?
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<imperator2> JeremieDeNoob, "gem search -r -d blog" may yield some interesting results, though i've not used any myself
<JeremieDeNoob> imperator2: thanks- i was hoping for someone whod used one and had comments/opinions about it
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<imperator2> JeremieDeNoob, if no one chimes in, this article may be of interest to you: http://rrees.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/semi-static-cmss/
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<erikh> zzak: yo
<erikh> zzak: I'm on skype now if you want to chat.
<erikh> just moving to a coffee shop.
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<rue> JeremieDeNoob: ruby-toolbox is pretty nice
<rue> For searching stuff
<rue> Other than that, I think most people are using Jekyll/Nanoc3 or something
<JeremieDeNoob> thanks for the help guys
<JeremieDeNoob> yeah thats what i gather
<JeremieDeNoob> octoblog, nanoc or jekyll
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<yorickpeterse> In unrelated news, I'm starting to get the hang of Ripper
<yorickpeterse> The docs are utter shit though, might need to do something about that in the future
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<Denommus> hi
<Denommus> if I have a loop thread, should I put it to sleep after every iteration, or could I make a normal loop?
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<esad> hey everyone. What's the difference between @@foo and @foo in a module
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<manveru> esad: if you use @foo, i'll invite you to my party, if you use @@foo, i'll send the cavalary
<esad> haha
<esad> do @@ get mixed in?
<manveru> they get mixed in and up and out
<manveru> @@ are quite viral SOB
<esad> hm I thought @@ was way to go because mattr_accessor from ActiveSupport used that I thin
<esad> is there any reference on this behaviour?
<manveru> ActiveSupport is like a dictionary of anti-patterns
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<manveru> </rant>
<manveru> wish they were called class globals, maybe people wouldn't use them then
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<whitequark> ah damnit, ruby class variables
<whitequark> I wrote a ruby implementation and I *still* cannot quite remember how do they work
<whitequark> the only two more obscure features are named captures in regexen which turn to local variables, and flip-flops
<whitequark> (apart from really strange gvars like $=.)
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<wallerdev> ruby has plenty more obscure features :p
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* zenspider hugs class vars
<zenspider> I loves me my class vars
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<headius> class vars blow
<headius> though I realized the other day they basically are looked up like methods
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<zenspider> people who think class vars blow blow
<zenspider> also, your test failures don't even BELONG near MRI's tests :P
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