#ruby-lang on 2012-07-07 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2012-02-28 15:54 ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist

00:01 <drbrain> … and make it sound interesting and cool

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00:04 <seanstickle> Everything in Spenserian sonnets sounds cool

00:06 <drbrain> ok, I think I got it

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00:40 <postmodern> whitequark, good job on furnace-avm2

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01:17 <Spaceghostc2c> tenderlove: Nifty housefire you have there.

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02:45 <chancancode> Why is there an empty implementation of =~ on Object? (As opposed to that being defined on just String and Regexp?)

02:45 <chancancode> What are the other use cases for that method?

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02:55 <chancancode> Got kicked off the Network just now, so if someone answered my question (Why do we have Object#=~), can you please post that again? Thaks!

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03:00 <hagabaka> chancancode: from String#=~: Otherwise, invokes obj.=~, passing str as an argument. The default =~ in Object returns nil

03:03 <chancancode> hagabaka: I guess my question is why does it have to do that. The behaviour would have been the same if String#=~ just return nil if other is not a Regexp?

03:04 <chancancode> This is kind of strange I think. Implementing an empty "abstract" method (that has no meaning) for the sub classes to override doesn't feel very Ruby-ish.

03:06 <chancancode> I'm writing this piece of code, where I could have otherwise written "if obj.respond_to? :=~" but couldn't, because somehow this method exists on every single Object...

03:07 <hagabaka> they might have thought =~ should be treated similarly to ==

03:09 <hagabaka> so why can't you just call =~ and use the result instead?

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03:11 <hagabaka> also, it might have to do with that !~ always negates ~=

03:11 <chancancode> I was thinking maybe =~ is like === where it's useful in some interesting way (case statements)... but the definition on Object#=~ makes it pretty clear that it's only useful in String and Regexp

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03:12 <chancancode> re: !~ - yeah, but that also could just be folded into String and Regexp

03:12 <hagabaka> why is it clear that it's only useful in String and Regexp? just not many people have used it for other things

03:13 <chancancode> hagabaka: The intent of the code is " if this object supports 'advanced' matching, I'll use =~. Otherwise I'll use == instead. "

03:14 <hagabaka> that's what I mean: Ruby wanted to make !~ and ~= always opposite, instead of allowing a class to define them to be not-opposite. That still doesn't technicially force =~ to always have a definition, but it might be easier that way

03:17 <chancancode> Yeah. I don

03:17 <chancancode> oops.

03:18 <chancancode> Yeah. I don't know. Not having it on Object#=~ seems more useful at least on the surface, because you can detect whether the object supports pattern matching (whatever that means in that context, e.g. a CSS selector class can override =~ to do something special)

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03:19 <chancancode> With =~ defined on Object there is no way to detect if this object supports that kind of matching.

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03:20 <chancancode> But oh wells. It's probably not going to change anytime soon. More than anything else I'm just curious if I missed some hidden use cases/features of =~...

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03:21 <hagabaka> yeah, I think with =~, ==, ===, Ruby is assuming there is always "support" of comparison, just by default the stupid kind

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03:22 <banisterfiend> hagabaka: what do u mean

03:23 <hagabaka> chancancode: if there's a hidden use case, it would be that you can write your own pattern class, and String#=~ can automatically pick it up. Of course that could have also been implemented without Object#=~, just with String#=~ checking if it's defined instead

03:23 <chancancode> hagabaka

03:23 <chancancode> hagabaka: Exactly. I still have yet to come across a "true" benefit that forces Object#=~ to exists :P

03:26 <hagabaka> banisterfiend: as chancancode said, Object#=~ returns nil, instead of just being undefined. I'm saying it's similar to the default implementation of Object#== and ===

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03:27 <banisterfiend> hagabaka: kind of i guess, except the defaults for == and === compare object_id by default

03:27 <chancancode> hagabaka: I think === actually has a useful implementation out of the box tho. It just calls ==. This is useful because this lets you call === regardless (without knowing what kind of object it is), and it'll just fall back to equality if it doesn't "support" that.

03:27 <hagabaka> banisterfiend: yeah, but there's already equals? for that

03:28 <chancancode> I suppose you can say the same for =~ in the sense that you can call =~ regardless and it would just fall back to nil. It's just that I can't think of a case ATM where this is actually useful.

03:28 <banisterfiend> yeah, but equals? is always meant to return object_id comparision, whereas == and === just default to that where there isn't a more specific implementation for the subclass

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03:30 <hagabaka> I know, I mean Ruby could have taken the route to only implement equals? in Object, and let code check when == or === is defined before using them

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03:41 <chancancode> hagabaka: That's fair.

03:43 <hagabaka> I agree it's ugly though, string =~ regexp works, string =~ number returns nil, and string =~ string gives type error :D

03:43 <chancancode> hagabaka: I just discovered that today too :)

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05:53 <ddfreyne> ping

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16:15 <Spaceghostc2c> rue: Talk kitty to me. :p

16:15 <rue> Rawr

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16:21 <andrewvos> rue: Thought this was you for a second http://eerolanguage.org/

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16:21 <rue> No…I did promise to learn it, but haven’t

16:22 <andrewvos> rue: What are your thoughts on Triplestore?

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16:22 <rue> None, never used it

16:23 <rue> What’s a typical use case?

16:23 <andrewvos> rue: Do you like joins? Because Triplestore can do all the joins you want. Joins!

16:23 <andrewvos> Yeah I got nothing

16:24 <Spaceghostc2c> JOIN ALL THE THINGS

16:24 <andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: Do you like sulfur?

16:25 <andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: Can I sing in Icelandic?

16:25 <Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: I don't admit it, but the smell gives me some weird kind of nerdon.

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16:25 <Spaceghostc2c> I think it's my obsession with making fireworks I've had since I was a child.

16:25 <andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: I... I enjoy talking to you.

16:26 <Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: I like the way you type my nick. I feel as if it's really meaningful when you press a couple characters of my pseudonym and then tab complete to it.

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16:26 <andrewvos> You do realise I'm quoting Bjork from a Space Ghost episode right?

16:27 <Spaceghostc2c> I only use the coast to coast form of spaceghost because the guy who has the spaceghost nick wouldn't give me it for $100

16:28 <Spaceghostc2c> I don't even really watch those. I have all the originals.

16:28 <andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: That sounds like a good deal.

16:28 <Spaceghostc2c> Yeah, a hundred dollars in exchange for a nick on some network. I'm spaceghost most everywhere else.

16:29 <andrewvos> well, freenode is kind of big

16:29 <banisterfiend> Spaceghostc2c: maybe he thought you were going to try to take over his whole past and future and leave memories that disgust him

16:29 <rue> Apparently could be useful for RDF

16:29 <rue> If RDF was in any way useful

16:29 <andrewvos> rue: Yay rdf.

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16:30 <andrewvos> rue: Who made rdf, and like, why. Who are these programmers that do this shit to us.

16:30 <Spaceghostc2c> banisterfiend: I wouldn't ever... tell him that. I don't reveal my sinister plots that early in the execution.

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16:30 <andrewvos> rue: It's kind of like the people who make shit jokes. You could never track down who actually invented them, but they still exist.

16:30 <rue> I recall someone wanted to use RDF to describe an API… I was, like, “no.”

16:31 <Spaceghostc2c> rue: Psh. Hypermedia as the engine of application state, please.

16:31 <rue> You’ll note there’s no mention of RDF in that :P

16:31 <Spaceghostc2c> I never noticed that before! You're really smart.

16:32 <rue> It’s another one of those things that *sounds* kinda useful, but in practice you’re better off with just putting up a few docs and making sure your discoverability is in order

16:32 <andrewvos> As if some developer is going to be like: "Ok I want to consume an API, first I'll write a system that can fully understand what type of data I will be consuming"

16:32 <Spaceghostc2c> What's the whole point of RDF?

16:33 <Spaceghostc2c> I was going to look at wikipedia, but I saw buzzwords and got scared.

16:33 <andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: To fuck up my life.

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16:34 <andrewvos> I think it's impossible to explain RDF without sounding like an enterprisey douchebag.

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16:35 <Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: Is it like SOAP, but sort of meta?

16:35 <andrewvos> Copying from wikipedia so I don't have to think about it too much "The Resource Description Framework (RDF) is a family of World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) specifications [1] originally designed as a metadata data model. It has come to be used as a general method for conceptual description or modeling of information that is implemented in web resources, using a variety of syntax formats.

16:36 <andrewvos> "

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16:36 <rue> andrewvos: Are you mired in RDF now?

16:37 <andrewvos> rue: Well, not that much.

16:37 <andrewvos> rue: I think I've managed to go with spitting out json instead.

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16:38 <andrewvos> rue: So may have avoided that. Fingers crossed.

16:38 <rue> Good.

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16:46 <andrewvos> Kind of want this http://store.polaroid.com/product/9/538436/POLZ2300/_/Instant_Digital_Camera_-_Z2300

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17:22 <rue> Is it like instant coffee?

17:23 <Spaceghostc2c> Instant hipster.

17:26 <andrewvos> I would buy it but it doesn't print photos on those old style papers

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17:33 <andrewvos> I'm just digging my hipster hole deeper here aren't I.

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17:33 <rue> Yes, but are you using a vintage shovel?

17:33 <rue> Or is it too mainstream?

17:34 <andrewvos> Erm https://svpply.com/item/200861/Original_Chinese_army_Multifunctional

17:34 <andrewvos> Obviously. Sheesh.

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17:46 <rue> That’s pretty mainstream, it’s got like 500 million users

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18:39 <rue> Stop playing with yourself.

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19:46 <Denommus> hi

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20:54 <rue> HI THEER

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22:05 <Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: https://github.com/narwhunderful/beluga/tree/base

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23:11 <andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: Cinch!

23:12 <erikh> request-log-analyzer

23:12 <erikh> so slow

23:12 <erikh> ;(

23:12 <andrewvos> regex

23:13 <erikh> regexes, in their compiled form, also parse your ruby

23:13 <andrewvos> Those bastards!

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23:15 <Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: What do you mean?

23:17 <erikh> Spaceghostc2c: cinch is an irc framework

23:17 <erikh> a pretty good one

23:17 <Spaceghostc2c> Oh nifty.

23:17 <erikh> andrewvos: if this thing was just multithreaded it'd be a bajillion times faster

23:18 <erikh> and I'd invest the time to get jruby running to use it

23:19 <epitron> hmm... is there a clever way of creating a tree (in hash form) from a set of elements that each have a .parent attribute?

23:19 <epitron> i feel like some kind of recursive group_by might do it

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23:33 <erikh> epitron: you could do it with recursion, or a while loop

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23:50 <rue> epitron: So you have a bunch of elements that point to the parent, not the other way around?

23:50 <epitron> rue: yeah

23:51 <andrewvos> rue: Well, you chould just loop and .child == x

23:51 <andrewvos> Oh battery dead

23:51 <andrewvos> Bye

23:52 <epitron> true

23:52 <rue> Right, that’s the obvious way, if not necessarily the most efficient

23:52 <epitron> it would be cleaner without group_by

23:52 <epitron> it should be pretty efficient too

23:52 <epitron> nodes.each {|node| node.parent.children << node }

23:52 <rue> Yes, plus finding the root

23:52 <epitron> i dunno why i'm trying to get all fancy :)

23:53 <epitron> trueee

23:53 <epitron> nodes.each {|node| node.parent.children << node if node.parent }

23:53 <epitron> root = nodes.find { |node| node.parent == nil }

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23:53 <epitron> roots = nodes.select{ |node| node.parent == nil }

23:54 <epitron> yes, i like this solution :)

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23:54 <epitron> i will be able to tell what it does in 6 months

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