00:51 <wpwrak> so ... did anyone try the simulator ?

04:48 <unclouded> very tempted to, but.. time

05:01 <wpwrak> it's not as if there would be a maze of dialog screens awaiting you ;-)

13:28 <DocScrutinizer51> emulator?

13:30 <DocScrutinizer51> for some SoC?

13:32 <DocScrutinizer05> dammit, I won't be able to eat up those 1.5GB data volume. left VNC connected for 8h and it only used up 200MB ;-P

13:33 <DocScrutinizer05> apropos:

13:34 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: how about you already start with maemo-scratchbox? give it a test, it gives you a first impression of what's awaiting you when we get that device to yours

13:35 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-08-20 Wed 15:35:03] <DocScrutinizer05> ~sb

13:35 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-08-20 Wed 15:35:08] <infobot> well, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB

13:36 <DocScrutinizer05> get the VM image from merlin's place!

13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I found the xephyr based emu quite exciting, it kinda really feels like the true thing: maemo on N900

13:41 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: (simulator) for anelok, just for GUI development. provides "touch" input and display

13:42 <wpwrak> (scratchbox) i'll have a look at it

13:42 <mth> you can't completely hide the fact that you're doing a cross build

13:43 <mth> and in the cases where it fails, scratchbox is an extra layer of complexity to deal with when debugging

13:43 <DocScrutinizer51> sb is a nightmare

13:43 <DocScrutinizer51> but the result is awesoome

13:45 <DocScrutinizer05> even Nokia tried to come up with something more sleak: MADDE

13:46 <DocScrutinizer05> but aiui MADDE needs a real N900 attached to PC to run the binaries on there, while sb has a complete emu of N900 (well, almost complete. obviously no phone calls, no GPS etc)

13:46 <DocScrutinizer05> and they even use x86 binaries for that, aiui

13:47 <ysionneau> is it like a mix of buildroot+qemu ?

13:47 <mth> but how often do you really need to run target binaries as part of the build? only a few packages need something like that

13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ysionneau: yes

13:47 <mth> most cross build problems are bad configure scripts that do things like hardcoding /usr/include into CFLAGS

13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not about building, it's about testing

13:48 <ysionneau> ok

13:48 <mth> I never got past the build stage before I dumped it ;)

13:48 <DocScrutinizer05> haha

13:48 <ysionneau> I watched a video of scratchbox on the web, it made me think about Android emulator (which is Qemu)

13:48 <ysionneau> and yes it's pretty cool for testing

13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: you'll also need this link: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide

13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK

13:54 <DocScrutinizer05> do NOT use the gui tool to install sb! actaully do not install sb at all ;), just use the VM image of merlin's server

13:55 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard somebody managed to install sb natively only 2 months ago, and took him only one day

13:55 <DocScrutinizer05> so it *can* be done

13:55 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggest to steer clear

13:55 <wpwrak> hmm. it starts increasingly like the sort of operation that needs a thorough backup before you try it ...

13:58 <DocScrutinizer05> what? installing sb? it just creates a /sb/ dir of some 5GB size on your PC. Then eventually a initscript will start a chroot in there

13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> so a good way to nuke your PC is a rm -rf /sb

13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> like with any other chroot

13:59 <wpwrak> 5 GB. more fun then.

13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, friggin bloated

14:00 <DocScrutinizer05> that's however incl kernel sources and all, iirc

14:00 <DocScrutinizer05> the VM is slightly >1GB

14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> for installing rootstraps you need a "token", google is your friend, or justr ask me

14:04 <wpwrak> it sounds increasingly like the sort of software i'd rather not have on my system :)

14:06 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, no. nothing wrong with it, once it's installed (or started in VM even, which I recommend)

14:07 <DocScrutinizer05> sb itself is a biatch

14:08 <DocScrutinizer05> and the bindmounts are as nasty as are on any other chroot

14:08 <DocScrutinizer05> nevermind them in a VM however

14:09 <DocScrutinizer05> just NEVER do a `rm -rf <chrootdir>` while stuff like /proc and /sys etc is still bindmounted to the chroot dir. That's general advice for all *nix chroots

14:10 <mth> rm has a --one-file-system option that might help against that

14:11 <mth> *might* because I'm not sure it would help against bind mounts on the same fs

14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo itself has some closed blobs e.g. powervr driver lib 3D) which need some "authentication" to download them from Nokia repo

14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> mth: solution: "stop" the chroot before doing any rm

14:12 <DocScrutinizer05> alas you forget about that lil detail every now and then

14:13 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why I *always* emphasize it

14:15 <DocScrutinizer05> hint: https://www.google.com/search?q=maemo+rootstrap&ie=UTF-8

14:16 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a constant 'magic number' in the repo URL

14:35 <qi-bot> [commit] Nebuleon Fumika: Fix a crasher when launching an application whose icon is corrupt (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5758209

14:35 <qi-bot> [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: If directory entry is a symbolic link, fall back on stat() (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/3eb3a8e

14:35 <qi-bot> [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Don't assume that all non-directories are regular files (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c7a5b87

14:35 <qi-bot> [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Don't apply realpath() to entered subdirs in Selector (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7b2c26c