<Luke-Jr>
wpwrak: does nouveau actually make a decent GPU out of nvidia stuff? O.o
<wpwrak>
Luke-Jr: sufficient for what i need. i don't really care about 3D. the occasional STL also renders fast enough in software. but i need my triple-head.
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<Luke-Jr>
I see.
<Luke-Jr>
I had the unfortunate realisation recently that Linux is only stable for OpenGL on older GPUs :/
<Luke-Jr>
both my Intel Haswell and AMD Radeon 7xxx are unstable
<Luke-Jr>
whereas my previous Sandy Bridge, and before that Radeon (pre-HD) 9200 were stable
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<mth>
wolfspraul: git commit notification is broken:
<mth>
remote: PHP Fatal error: Call to undefined function expect_popen() in /srv/irc/send_irc_lines.php on line 8
<mth>
the commit itself went through though, so it's not urgent
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<wolfspraul>
mth: excellent feedback, thank you! I installed libexpect-php5, let's see whether it's better now (haven't tested, just waiting)
<mth>
how long ago? I pushed some changes 2-3 minutes ago and it didn't work yet then
<wolfspraul>
hmm
<wolfspraul>
just before my post
<wolfspraul>
we may have crossed each other by seconds though, so let's wait for the next one
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<qi-bot>
[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Created separate subclasses for output and off-screen surfaces (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/4bd1c79
<ysionneau>
whitequark: what do you mean by "decoy law" ?
<whitequark>
ysionneau: a law to distract public from some other, worse law
<ysionneau>
wow
<ysionneau>
so in the end the law about giving passport info to connect to public wifi is dropped?
<ysionneau>
(sorry I could not read your link
<ysionneau>
)
<whitequark>
yes, or rather, transformed into a law about personal information retention
<whitequark>
for half a year or so
<whitequark>
that happens like every time you hear about some outrageous law.
<ysionneau>
and what was the worse law?
<whitequark>
the SORM real-time intelligence gathering system to be integrated with all social networks operating in RU
<ysionneau>
wow, is it some DPI stuff thats gathering all metadata?
<whitequark>
no
<whitequark>
it means that the social networks must themselves provide all the data the government requests
<ysionneau>
ak ok
<ysionneau>
direct access to their database
<whitequark>
there's no need to subvert https and so on, because it works at the endpoint
<whitequark>
sorta
<whitequark>
and I bet they will use it for grep for keywords like "protest".
<ysionneau>
so you don't see live tchat for instance but you can read the logs afterward
<whitequark>
no, you do see live chat, that's the whole point of SORM
<whitequark>
earlier generations of SORM are basically the lawful intercept interface for cellular and landline
<whitequark>
so now they extend this to social networks
<ysionneau>
wow ok
<ysionneau>
so they access to database data *and* do live intercept
<ysionneau>
crazy :(
<ysionneau>
I guess USA is doing the same though
<whitequark>
well
<whitequark>
it's hard to say
<whitequark>
the Snowden documents said "yes", but NSA was using essentially illegal methods, i.e. fiber optic interception
<whitequark>
since then Google and others have started treating it as an adversary, and that probably doesn't work
<whitequark>
but we wouldn't know whether there are some secret court orders equivalent to what happens in RU, for some times
<ysionneau>
at least, as I understood, it is mandatory for US companies (google, amazon, facebook etc) to allow access to authorities to their database
<ysionneau>
I guess that for that to be lawful it must be during an investigation
<ysionneau>
prosecution or something
<ysionneau>
but they can ask for access or for informations
<whitequark>
yes, but that's supposed to happen like this: government submits a subpoena, company X responds with data
<whitequark>
this is not supposed to give the government direct access to database
<whitequark>
and I think not live intercept too
<ysionneau>
yes ok agreed
<kyak>
how about that: company X reads all data, finds suspicious activity and reports it to the government?
<kyak>
i'm just wondering when are you going to stop talking about "this contry"
<kyak>
have a look around, see the same shit everywhere, and relax
<whitequark>
kyak: oh fuck off, the fact that everyone does something doesn't mean that doing it is right
<kyak>
yeah, but your endless rants …
<whitequark>
/ignore or /part.
<kyak>
i've chosen the first one (and i'm not talking about IRC). It seems that you're biasing to the second options, good :)
<kyak>
i'm talking about "this country", just in case..
<whitequark>
it's not like my endless rants are going to stop just because I move, because, as you aptly noticed, the same shit is everywhere
<kyak>
that's quite true, i suppose
<kyak>
so you'll be ranting about country's Y bitch government
<DocScrutinizer51>
kyak seems to be pretty touchy in general when somenody critizises "his country"
<kyak>
no, more when someone talks trash
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<whitequark>
I don't exactly consider Google a model internet company
<sb0>
+1
<whitequark>
so I don't know what your point is.
<DocScrutinizer51>
whitequark: kyak's point is he owns ultimate truth
<kyak>
ah fuck it.
<whitequark>
kyak: if you think that a legislative process where Duma (or congress, for that matter) deliberately introduces decoy laws to divert public attention from some unconstitutional law they're trying to pass in meantime is a-ok
<whitequark>
I don't know what to say to you
<DocScrutinizer51>
and when tou do, you of course don't even bother to question if what you got is what been said
<whitequark>
exactly who of those three hundred pigfuckers represents *me*? I'll answer, zero
<kyak>
whitequark: yeah, that's pretty ok. Because even if every individual himself is smart, the large group of individuals, or society, is not
<whitequark>
should I remind you who is supposed to be a public servant?
<whitequark>
and not the other way around
<kyak>
i agree with your last point
<kyak>
and your very last point :)
<kyak>
but it doesn't change the fact that society needs to be controllable
<kyak>
even if it's controlled by 300 pigs
<whitequark>
I don't think that is necessarily true
<kyak>
or 1 pig, for what atters
<DocScrutinizer51>
now *I* smell rubbish being told
<whitequark>
but even *if* what you say is true, the legislative process I'm speaking about is, simply, lying to those you are supposed to serve
<whitequark>
it is an attempt to break the feedback loop that should keep them in check
<whitequark>
or are you advocating for absolute monarchy?
<kyak>
hm, what feedback loop? Are we at the point of "shared knowledge" between people?
<kyak>
Like, the society is able to "collect" "coordinated" feedback and pass it back to legislation?
<whitequark>
yes. yes, it does.
<kyak>
oh, ok.. talk about it with some redneck from CHelyabinsk
<kyak>
he will have many ideas how to improve the state
<whitequark>
and I would
<kyak>
the monarchy.. not necessarilly, if responsibility is clearly defined
<DocScrutinizer51>
ok now this is definitely TOO much, particularly for somebody bashing others for 'talking bullshit'
<DocScrutinizer51>
is it worth the load time and data fees to try and open it on a 3" screen?
<whitequark>
it's 117K
<whitequark>
it's a picture of a companion cube I tried to machine out of Al
<DocScrutinizer51>
loading
<whitequark>
it kinda went poor
<DocScrutinizer51>
loading
<DocScrutinizer51>
loading
<DocScrutinizer51>
aborting that
<whitequark>
okay
<DocScrutinizer51>
think it got the complete pic at least
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<DocScrutinizer51>
nice
<whitequark>
I really shouldn't have used X/Y finish pass on this geometry
<whitequark>
should have went with only waterline and pencil
<whitequark>
and I don't understand one thing mainly, I have a script that measures the cube with a probe
<whitequark>
it says the cube is 26 by 27.2mm, but in reality it is 24 by 24 mm
<whitequark>
and I can't find the error anywhere: mechanics, electronics, software
<whitequark>
I also think the coordinates of holes I drill in PCBs are off, but not by a whole two millimeters! so even when I may see distortion, it doesn't match what I measure
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer51: based on that cube, I can 100% rule out missing steps on either slow or rapid movements
<whitequark>
that would absolutely butcher the waterline pass
<whitequark>
but all the "layers" align with each other
<whitequark>
roh: I have some unfinished code for a FOSS CAM processor that can do constant TEA
<roh>
we played around with heekscad and heekscam some time ago
<whitequark>
yep, played with it too
<whitequark>
heekscad is even less usable than freecad, which is an impressive feat
<whitequark>
no Ctrl+Z, random crashes, randomly doesn't work
<roh>
and there are 'parts' of a cam suite flying around in lib form. whats missing is a comprehensive tool to 'load model, configure mill, tools and process, render gcode'
<whitequark>
roh: I've seen these 'parts'
<whitequark>
you probably mean libarea
<whitequark>
that's what I was going to base my code on
<roh>
also, yes. also the others heekscam uses
<whitequark>
I'll probably have more time for that once I relocate
<whitequark>
roh: any advice for milling aluminium on tiny mills?
<whitequark>
I have really horrible tool chatter issues
<whitequark>
once I sat there for a hour and my eyes hurt for a day (!)
<whitequark>
THAT is how bad it is
<whitequark>
ears*
<roh>
libkurve, actp....
<whitequark>
roh: last time I checked, it doesn't actually use libkurve or actp (?)
<whitequark>
I mean, it simply doesn't refer to them from generated python script
<whitequark>
seemed weird to me
<roh>
hmmm.. cool it with 50/50 destilled water/alcohol
<roh>
or pressured air and some cutting oil mist
<whitequark>
as far as I understand, it slices the model inside heekscad and then puts the slices inside python code
<whitequark>
roh: hm, I have a thing set up that puts a stream of liquid there, yes
<whitequark>
was thinking of trying it next
<roh>
whitequark: it uses different libs depending on the 'things' you use
<whitequark>
roh: the problem is my fixture is made out of wood, so it warps
<roh>
pocket vs waterline etc
<roh>
eek
<whitequark>
yes.
<roh>
yep.. building proper fixtures is half the job
<whitequark>
I already found it out, yeah, the hard way :D
<roh>
i learned that the hard way...
<Luke-Jr>
whitequark: Ivy Bridge is not Haswell
<roh>
:)
<whitequark>
Luke-Jr: if Ivy Bridge is your definition of "old", I have news for you ;D
<Luke-Jr>
GF117M is nvideous. wpwrak implied nouveau is only sufficient for 2D
<roh>
whitequark: heekscam does 'write a python script' which you then execute, and parse back the resulting gcode to some xml intermediate and then display it as lines
<whitequark>
roh: I think it actually puts out the file with lines along with the gcode
<roh>
the executing uses the libs via their python interfaces (the libs are c++)
<whitequark>
maybe we're talking about different versions?
<roh>
whitequark: it didnt when i built packages some years ago
<roh>
maybe
<roh>
the xml was also a 'hidden' temp file
<wpwrak>
Luke-Jr: i didn't say that. it's just that i don't really care about 3D. so i don't even know how good nouveau is at it :)
<Luke-Jr>
wpwrak: I see.
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<whitequark>
roh: why alcohol and not water?
<whitequark>
is there any difference?
<roh>
whitequark: surface tension
<whitequark>
oh
<whitequark>
think water+surfactant would work?
<whitequark>
tap water is cheaper than vodka
<roh>
and 50/50 so make it less flammable
<roh>
i dunno all the details.. but the short version is: you dont want to put just water on there because of rust
<whitequark>
oh, but my frame is made out of Al
<whitequark>
and I replaced the screws with stainless steel ones
<roh>
but there are whole sections in books about cooling when milling. flood, mist and all the coolants and their mixes
<whitequark>
I've seen some book from 1920
<whitequark>
it recommended using milk (!!)
<whitequark>
among other things
<roh>
milling milk is not milk
<roh>
its a special mix of oils and some stuff to make oil thinnable by water
<whitequark>
oh
<whitequark>
that would explain a few things
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