DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<DocScrutinizer05> ysionneau: thanks for the heads-up
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: >>the content jumps vertically about once every 1000 screen updates<< burn-in protection
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm pretty sure it's a feature, not a bug ;-)
<wpwrak> yeah. or maybe it's just happy and jumps for joy ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> at least I've seen similar behaviour on several screens
<DocScrutinizer05> early LCD had sth similar, when they still had issues with electrode deterioration
<DocScrutinizer05> and of course plasma screens
<DocScrutinizer05> funny enough CRT rarely ever did that
<DocScrutinizer05> despite they as well had burn-in problems
<DocScrutinizer05> my current LG TV jumps the "NO SIGNAL" message all across the screen, every 5 seconds
<wpwrak> it only happens when transferring data. static content is stable forever.
<wpwrak> could of course be a botched burn-in protection ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, they for sure don't have a timer on board in the OLED, eh?
<wpwrak> well, who knows what magic the controller chip can do :)
<DocScrutinizer05> it's definitely botched as otherwise they would move slowly up and down, instead of jumping
<DocScrutinizer05> but that would cost a more complex loop, with maybe 50 bytes more code
<DocScrutinizer05> plus one bit more storage, for the up/down flag
<DocScrutinizer05> for the boost: it's prolly normal that there's a low-ESR path from input to output, as long as it's a step-up converter
<DocScrutinizer05> not though for chargepumps
<DocScrutinizer05> I think I don't have the schematics open here ATM
<DocScrutinizer05> so I can't tell for sure what's up
<wpwrak> there are FETs in the chip that could cut the path. but they don't. ah well.
<wpwrak> and yes, it's a step-up converter: http://www.skyworksinc.com/uploads/documents/AAT1217_202050B.pdf
<DocScrutinizer05> hah, step up. always has a virtual diode forwarding input thru choke to output
<DocScrutinizer05> those critters also don't really current-limit. You can pull mega-amps from output at input voltage
<wpwrak> i'm sure that, for a few picoseconds, you can :)
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe, hardly, the inductance of the pin is too high
<wpwrak> but then there's the parasitic capacitance. a while 5 pF, all yours to burn ;-)
<wpwrak> s/while/whole/
<qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "but then there's the parasitic capacitance. a whole 5 pF, all yours to burn ;-)"
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the block diagram of the chip *suggests* it has a switch that cuts out output. But that isn't meant to work that way, and you don't know what P/N-gaps are *really* on the die
<DocScrutinizer05> could even be OVP or clamp diodes
<DocScrutinizer05> > >In conventional synchronous step-up converters, a con -duction path exists from input to output through th ebackgate (body diode) of the P-channel MOSFET durin gshutdown. Special application circuitry can disconnect th eload from the battery during shutdown (see Figure 1).<<
<DocScrutinizer05> it's all already there ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> and i'm once again lucky that my uneducated blbla was in line with the explanation in the datasheet ;-P
<wpwrak> ah yes, that's where they were hiding it. thanks :)
<wpwrak> hehe ;-)
<wpwrak> interesting that they mix FET and BJT, instead of just using two FETs
<DocScrutinizer05> BJT?
<DocScrutinizer05> aah
<wpwrak> Bipolar Junction Transistor
<DocScrutinizer05> more interesting are the 2%..3% higher efficiency with an external schottky
<wpwrak> yeah, burning 1.5 uA in the transistor is still about an order of magnitude below that
<DocScrutinizer05> wtf is the deal with FB?
<DocScrutinizer05> or rather, with R1, R2
<DocScrutinizer05> are they for decoration?
<wpwrak> it's for the adjustable version
<wpwrak> i picked the fixed version, which has them inside the chip
<DocScrutinizer05> weird, they say >>The AAT1217 has two fixed output voltage options: 3.3 Vand 5V. An internal resistor divider is connected to th eFB pin inside the package which eliminates the need fo rexternal feedback resistors.<< Still they mention the external R1/R2 dimensioning for exactly those two output voltages. And use the only values for R1/R2 in the application note that doesn't make any sense at all
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<DocScrutinizer05> this seems pretty important to me: >>In applications where th einput power source lead inductance cannot be reduce dto a level that does not affect the converter perfor -mance, a high ESR tantalum or aluminum electrolyti ccapacitor should be placed in parallel with the low ESR ,ESL bypass input ceramic capacitor. The introduction o fthe high ESR capacitor dampens the high Q network an dstabilizes the AAT1217.<<
<DocScrutinizer05> though they write it's usually not a problem for PCB with their short traces, I'd rather not rely on it, particularly when using a CR2032 as input, and when shielding and EMI is a concern
<wpwrak> well, someone may prefer to buy just the adjustable version and add cheap resistors.
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh there are different versions?
<wpwrak> see page 12 :)
<DocScrutinizer05> AAAH I see
<DocScrutinizer05> -1.2 -3.3
<wpwrak> 1.2, confusingly, isn't 1.2 V but 1.2 A ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> duh, 1.2Ampere?
<DocScrutinizer05> that's.... o.O
<wpwrak> well, or maybe MHz. can be either.
<wpwrak> in any case, it's not V ;-)
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<wpwrak> at least it's not gigaparsecs per pound force :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> ok, finished my "breakfast"
<DocScrutinizer05> (iow closed the pdf-reader)
<wpwrak> tasty little pixels :)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, I wonder if it was Wolfgang who minted the "eats datasheets for breakfast"
<wpwrak> anyway, i need to see if the display will actually draw the advertized current in sleep mode. maybe i just got that wrong. if it's happy with 1-2 uA, then i won't bother trying to beat that
<wpwrak> :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> beware of dangling floating inputs
<DocScrutinizer05> they easily cause excess quiescent
<wpwrak> i may have held the chip in reset. could be that it didn't like that.
<DocScrutinizer05> (sorry for mentioning it)
<DocScrutinizer05> yep, sure
<wpwrak> while (reset) try_to_get_out();
<DocScrutinizer05> reset pulls low quite a number of internal reset inputs
<wpwrak> i usually try all the likely combinations, see which ones actually result in the lowest current. sometimes, doing it "wrong" works best.
<DocScrutinizer05> so it can be _very_ power hungry
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<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: in austria we can't finance the Neo900 with down payments. It's forbidden to accept money from non-bank persons/entities and pay interest for it. Only banks may do that :-o I guess austria is quite silly a country
<roh> DocScrutinizer05: it gets much more complicated than that ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> even more funny, it's not the private person that's lending the money and accepts the interest on top of payback who's getting sued but the one who takes the money
<roh> DocScrutinizer05: remember the tax stuff for gta01?
<DocScrutinizer05> no
<DocScrutinizer05> been ante Joerg
<roh> shipping from california.. means: sales tax depends to which us state or country you sell to
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh
<roh> but when you ship from california to california... its gets more complicated.. then there is sales tax depending on the district.
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, USA are also weird
<roh> total mindfuck. i typed in dozends of different tax levels into that stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> eeew
<roh> and it changed multiple times. thats why we went shopify later...
<DocScrutinizer05> shopify?
<roh> because there was also the issue of different shipping prices depending on the wherefrom, whereto etc
<roh> DocScrutinizer05: webshop-application-logic and maintainance service
<DocScrutinizer05> mhm
<DocScrutinizer05> well, I never looked into that ;-P
<roh> they run the shop and the servers, and take care of such nasty details... and stuff like ups shipping price calculation... i nearly went mad till i found that
<DocScrutinizer05> or actually I might have done, at a time when GTA01 wasn't available anymore
<roh> and that was before i went checking out how to accept a creditcard internationally
<DocScrutinizer05> ouch
<DocScrutinizer05> steer clear of credit cards
<roh> not possible when you want to sell in the 3rd world
<DocScrutinizer05> yep
<roh> ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> It still strikes me funny that in Austria no money lending as long as not one of the 2 entities is a bank
<DocScrutinizer05> dumbnuts
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<whitequark> use bitcoin !
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<viric> damn bitcoin
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<wpwrak> use silk road ! ;-)
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: i didn't spend enough time in austria to know about such details :) but i wonder whether this actually applies to you - if you sell something in .de, are you obliged to find out whether there are local .at laws that affect it ?
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: besides, is this really an "interest" ? i can't imagine that discounts and such are forbidden in austria.
<viric> wpwrak: hm what was that silk road?
<viric> I think I recently saw it, and I forgot all again
<viric> aaah yes, it was in the news.
<viric> "FBI seized over 26,000 BTC"
<viric> I imagine my parents hearing that in the news... fun.
<wpwrak> ;-)
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<larsc> how is that worse than s/BTC/USD/ ?
<wpwrak> i think it's 1 BTC = 150 USD or such, so it's about 150 times worse
<whitequark> I think the guy got around $60m or something, in total
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<wpwrak> hmm, i guess i'll have to quote from "Loreley" (?) :)
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<apelete> larsc: Hi, are you there ?
<larsc> 5 minutes
<apelete> 'kay
<apelete> I'm trying to figure out how to implement dma interrupt for jz4740
<larsc> hm, we never used dma with the current driver
<apelete> I don't know if the jz4740 is able to use Mentor Graphic's Inventra dma engine
<apelete> larsc: udc driver does not implement dma ?
<larsc> there is supposed to be dma support but it is not really documented in the datasheet
<apelete> I saw that
<larsc> the udc driver implements it, but it is disabled by default
<apelete> do you think we could use the Inventra dma engine for the musb glue layer or not ?
<larsc> I don't know
<apelete> hmm, looks like dma is going to be a tricky part :-)
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<apelete> I tried using the interrupt function from ux500.c, but I'm getting the error messages:
<apelete> musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0.auto: No DMA interrupt line!
<apelete> musb-hdrc: probe of musb-hdrc.0.auto failed with error -22
<apelete> musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0.auto: musb_init_controller failed with status -22
<apelete> larsc: well, won't hold you longer, maybe we can discuss this another time
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