<whitequark>
what's up with the capitalization of Free lately?
<viric>
is it free beer, or Free beer?
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<whitequark>
it just sounds like some religious thing to me
<whitequark>
:/
<wpwrak>
free beer is when no money changes hands
<wpwrak>
Free beer is when you also get to know how it's made
<whitequark>
wasn't that "libre" ?
<wpwrak>
some use "libre" but "Free" is more common
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<wpwrak>
not sure what the origin of the use of "libre" is. maybe it's just because it sounds nice. maybe it's because people got tired of capitalizing "Free", and explaining it.
<wpwrak>
maybe it's because the US have been busy making "freedom" a bad word
<whitequark>
"Fʀᴇᴇ Software" ;)
<viric>
well, in french or spanish, 'libre' clearly means Free, and not free.
<whitequark>
viric: I think that was the point
<wpwrak>
viric: yup, it's clearer
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<viric>
that's a good "origin of the use of libre", isn't it?
<wpwrak>
whitequark: "Free(R) Software" (R) Registered Trademark. All Rights Reserved. ;)
<wpwrak>
viric: yes, that qualifies as another one. so we have four reasons in total :)
<wpwrak>
(for now)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: no no, I was thinking along the lines of "Our Lᴏʀᴅ and Savior RMS"
<wpwrak>
ah :)
<whitequark>
capitalization makes me think like that each time
<wpwrak>
i try to avoid that sort of literature :)
<viric>
Who came up with capitalization at all?
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<wpwrak>
i guess it's a natural consequence of using "free" in a world where there's lots of "gratis" yet not so much freedom
<wpwrak>
e.g., Fakebook is "free", right ? :) free admission to the panopticum
<viric>
did you see the new Intro software by linkedin?
<viric>
wpwrak: now you can make it your mitm mail box checker
<wpwrak>
i guess linkedin is great help for people in the Human Resources department. linkedin = applicant_has_linkedin_account(); lemming = job_requires_dumb_obeisance(); if ((linkedin && lemming) || (!linkedin && !lemming)) hire(); else ignore();
<viric>
being a linked user is a bad sign
<wpwrak>
whitequark: ah, now i see where you got that long dong reference from :)
<viric>
whitequark: the Skeptic's annotated bible always helps
<whitequark>
wpwrak: nah, that's just what I use idle capacity of my brain for
<whitequark>
what in the world is better than lame puns!
<whitequark>
viric: honestly I'm horrified enough of the plain one
<whitequark>
the long dong verse was the better part of its surrounding context...
<cde>
sc
<whitequark>
sc ?
<viric>
whitequark: this is classified in categories, to bring you to the best passages
<viric>
sc, the mad spreadsheet software
<wpwrak>
whitequark: lemme guess, no white knight to save that damsel in distress ?
<whitequark>
wpwrak: iirc she was stoned or something. with rather extensive details
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: what weird font you#re using?
<DocScrutinizer05>
small uppercase, sometimes even blurred :-o
<whitequark>
it often works really strange on monospaced terminals
<larsc>
whitequark: well that's like every second szene in the old testament
<larsc>
scene
* DocScrutinizer05
just wonders why the ᴅᴇ is all blurred
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: I would guess the small-caps have different metrics than the monospaced letters on terminal and your rendering engine gets confused
<viric>
I agree, about the old testament
<whitequark>
or you don't use monospace for irc?
<DocScrutinizer05>
errr
<whitequark>
I sometimes forget not everyone uses irssi :)
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: also it may be related that my display has 170 dpi and I've hinting turned off.
<whitequark>
probably that, in fact
<whitequark>
viric: larsc: then the same people make their children read the bible, then censor the hell out of today's media
<whitequark>
"oh god there is a NIPPLE FINE THEM $100K IMMEDIATELY"
<whitequark>
(I think that's an american thing but nevertheless)
<viric>
whitequark: they go for the new testament I think
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: "font still under construction" ? :)
<whitequark>
the question is why any of you even touch displays with dpi lower than 170 or better 200-230
<DocScrutinizer05>
lol, yeah
<whitequark>
(I don't think PCs with >170dpi exist)
<wpwrak>
whitequark: no touch displays here
<whitequark>
lol
<whitequark>
seriously tho, those retina guys have a point
<DocScrutinizer05>
meh, that's what I discussed with Raster like 6 years ago
<whitequark>
too bad linux is pretty horrible at supporting nonstandard dpis.
<wpwrak>
well, they have a GHz race going on. they had to find something to do with all that performance ...
<whitequark>
wpwrak: meh, simple integrated intel video is all you need. I think it can do up to 4096x4096
<DocScrutinizer05>
my 1920*1080 screen is absolutely perfect for me
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: same here, except it's 13"
<DocScrutinizer05>
diagonale is irrelevant, first approach
<whitequark>
also I suggest you to actually look at some hi-dpi displays :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's the viewing angle
<whitequark>
viewing angle? IPS displays are 180° :)
<whitequark>
well, 178°
* DocScrutinizer05
headdesks
<whitequark>
hm?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I mean the segment of your view the screen takes
<DocScrutinizer05>
a 3" display can give you same viewing ange as a 40", when you're close enough
<whitequark>
ah, that. yes, if you're sitting further from it, you would see it the same way even with lower dpi
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I fon't need a viewing angle of >60°
<whitequark>
(or is it farther?)
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I think 45° are fine for me
<DocScrutinizer05>
everything beyond that angle is best served by a second (and third) screen
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw those 45° are horizontal
<DocScrutinizer05>
vertical it's even way less
<wpwrak>
hmm, some 120 deg here (three screens)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and no need at all for extending it
<DocScrutinizer05>
three screens are for quick "switching" to another screen. You can't watch all three same time
<wpwrak>
wish the one in the middle was bigger (at same dpi, of course), and the side ones then vertical
<DocScrutinizer05>
this for sure is convenient, but you definutely don't need the high resolution of main screen on the auxliary ones
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<DocScrutinizer05>
they are just for a cursory glance. If anything fgoes on there, you rather need a conventient method to pull it to main screen quickly
* DocScrutinizer05
wonders if the brain could train to use eye-blinking for command purposes. Like in: look at sth on aux xscreen, blink to move it to main screen
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's field of reception, not field of clear sight
<DocScrutinizer05>
for everythin more than 50° off the straight-ahead line horizontally, a mere blinking LED would suffice
<DocScrutinizer05>
even color doesn't matter there
<wpwrak>
and i work mainly on two of them. the third is for more static content. center screen for main activity (editing), left screen for auxiliary activity (main, chat), right screen for reference material or low-activity sessions
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: I think not, you normally do not notice blinking as brain edits it out of the input stream
<whitequark>
perhaps you could use sequences which have a low probability of random occurence, ie double or triple blinking
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, that's why I wondered if you could train it so it comes naturally
<wpwrak>
whitequark: your ancestors must have procreated at a very young age
<wpwrak>
whitequark: for they couldn't see the predators approach from the side ...
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: I believe it's reflextive, so probably no
<whitequark>
wpwrak: what?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ETAB
<wpwrak>
ah, you meant blinking of the eye, not of a light source. sorry, then it makes sense :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
he meant me, I guess
<DocScrutinizer05>
aah
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually blinking of the light source is all you can notice at peripheral filed of sight
<DocScrutinizer05>
even better than in center of sharp view
<DocScrutinizer05>
but you can't tell about color or shape
<whitequark>
fun fact: you have sharp, color vision only in a really really small angle, slightly more than 1°
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly my words
<whitequark>
everything else is grayscale and with really low resolution BUT also really low latency
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus for aux xscreens basically 10dpi would suffice ;-P
<whitequark>
also, both optical nerve and visual cortex do a lot of preprocessing
<DocScrutinizer05>
movement and evenm simply shapes are done in retina
<DocScrutinizer05>
simple*
<whitequark>
yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
you seem to actually have nerves that signal "moving right" from eye to brain
<DocScrutinizer05>
and other elementary tokens
<DocScrutinizer05>
like "corner"
<DocScrutinizer05>
end of line
<whitequark>
also, unlike most other nerves in the body, which basically use a form of PWM--two levels, frequency-based signal transmission--color receptors actually use level-based transmission
<DocScrutinizer05>
insects are happy with just that, they don't need more optical processing at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
wow
<DocScrutinizer05>
didn't know that
<whitequark>
I think it's recent research
<DocScrutinizer05>
fun
<DocScrutinizer05>
a smal "analog" section in the "digital" brain
<DocScrutinizer05>
err CNS
<whitequark>
it's not very digital I'd say. the range of duty cycles is still continous
<whitequark>
same for inhibition/excitation points
<DocScrutinizer05>
did you know that venus flie catcher plant needs exactly 2 signals on 2 of the sensor hairs to close their leaf and catch the fly. (or maybe it been 2 signals or 1 on three hairs)
<whitequark>
btw, did you know that walking is ultimately controlled by exactly two neurons in your spine?
<cde>
whitequark, did you know that in europe carrot is officially a fruit?
<whitequark>
each one, when excited, excites another one and inhibits itself
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, heard sth like that. and it seems those two neurons get nervous now
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: (venus fly catcher) does it even have nerves?
<whitequark>
or any electrical signal transmission at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's the funny point, they don't
<whitequark>
cde: @RealCarrotFacts ? :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
still they can count, and do logical OR
<DocScrutinizer05>
even latch
<DocScrutinizer05>
and timeout
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: sounds not very complex, there's a *lot* of processes like that in the cell which are purely chemical
<whitequark>
for example gene expression
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<whitequark>
you can have AND, OR, latches, delays there
<DocScrutinizer05>
still amazing
<whitequark>
NOT too
<whitequark>
I think it'll be mere years until you can synthesize verilog into DNA :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, that will be fun
<DocScrutinizer05>
I#m already planning for my time as IT psychologist
<DocScrutinizer05>
once neuronal networks become too complex to service them any other way
<whitequark>
"do you want to talk about it?" *the bacteria indifferently spins his flagellum"
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<cde>
whitequark: I'm not kidding. that's because portugal make carrot jam, and since jams can only be made from fruit, the lawmakers declared carrot to be a fruit
<whitequark>
cde: what the hell
<cde>
my thoughts exactly
<whitequark>
they should have triaged that as an upstream issue to whoever wrote the definition of "jam"
<DocScrutinizer05>
the distinction beween fruit and vegetable is pretty fuzzy in daily speech
<DocScrutinizer05>
and absolutely not in line with biology
<DocScrutinizer05>
peppers and cucumber are usually called vegetables
<DocScrutinizer05>
while indian figs are fruits (hmm maybe they really are)
<whitequark>
watermelon is a berry, strawberry is a multinutlet
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah
<whitequark>
(there's apparently no word equivalent to "многоорешек" in english, I translated it as "multinutlet")
<wpwrak>
let's just call them pre-meat
<DocScrutinizer05>
ROTFL
<cde>
I'm looking forward to the sequel of Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. lots of puns of fruit names
<whitequark>
also there's this weird thing in english where you call everything a fruit
<whitequark>
a nut is a fruit, wtf
<DocScrutinizer05>
Rhubarb is no fruit either
<whitequark>
in russian, a fruit is something bright and juicy. apples, oranges, ...
<wpwrak>
can you make a jam of the fruits of your labour ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
they can make jam of me though
<whitequark>
wpwrak: "jam" is a borrowed word in russian
<whitequark>
so no proverbs with it
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<whitequark>
or good puns
<whitequark>
btw I'm working on a bright theme for irclogger
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, EU is mad again. While jam in german is "Marmelade", it officially only applies to lemon and orange jam, everything else is "Konfituere" officially
<DocScrutinizer05>
duh, somebody switching off lights outside
<whitequark>
throw a grenade there. that'll teach 'em
<DocScrutinizer05>
I have to throw that pretty high
<DocScrutinizer05>
looks and feels like thunderstorm approaching
<DocScrutinizer05>
o/
<cde>
wow I just found out my server's reverse is within poneytelecom.eu
<whitequark>
yeah, I thought I would hate a bright version--nope, it's pretty good
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: you should get a few rtl2832 dvb-t sticks
<DocScrutinizer05>
particularly with a decent up-converter to give you that range fro virually 0 to 100MHz as well, they are extremely convenient lab tools
<DocScrutinizer05>
receiver tuning from 0..2GHz, with just one switch-over at 100MHz. I couldn't even dream of this a few years back
<wpwrak>
they're missing the most interesting band, 2.4 GHz
<DocScrutinizer05>
only limitation is max bandwidth
<DocScrutinizer05>
should also work with a down-converter
<DocScrutinizer05>
ring-modulator and a 2GHz LXO
<wpwrak>
but i have an usrp2. was pricy, of course, but works. not that i used it all that extensively, mainly as spectrum analyzer
<DocScrutinizer05>
2GHz highpass at the input, lowpass at the output
<wpwrak>
we had no activity at all on the 21st ? interesting
<DocScrutinizer05>
rtl_fm -N -l 6 -E -f 173240000 -s 22050 -o 4 -g 100 – | tee >(./multimon -a POCSAG1200 -f alpha -t raw /dev/stdin) >(play -t raw -r 22050 -e signed-integer -b 16 -c1 -V1 -q -) > /dev/null
<DocScrutinizer05>
can somebody explain to me the " >(... " syntax? I never seen that
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: it launches a subprocess with a pipe as input, and is substituted for that pipe
<whitequark>
try echo >(cat)
<whitequark>
and echo foo > >(cat)
<DocScrutinizer05>
lol, that's exaxtly what I just did
<whitequark>
hivemind!
<DocScrutinizer05>
I still don't get it
<DocScrutinizer05>
jr@saturn:~> echo >(cat)
<DocScrutinizer05>
/dev/fd/63
<DocScrutinizer05>
jr@saturn:~> date >(cat)
<DocScrutinizer05>
date: ungültiges Datum „/dev/fd/63“
<wpwrak>
the more common variant is <(command)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, that is kinda semi-sensible
<wpwrak>
e.g., cat <(do-this) <(do-that)
<whitequark>
parent shell does r,w=pipe(). suppose r=62,w=63. it launches cat with stdin replaced with 62, then substitutes the >... construct with /dev/fd/63
<whitequark>
you need to add another > before it to redirect
<whitequark>
so date > >(cat)
<whitequark>
whoever came up with that syntax is a horrible person
* DocScrutinizer05
tries in vain to wrap his head around it
<larsc>
just use | instead
* whitequark
. o O ( whoever came up with unix... oh, we know who. )
<whitequark>
larsc: won't work
<whitequark>
here tee is used as a stream duplicator
<larsc>
ah I see
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's obviously a huge difference between date|cat and date >(cat)
<pcercuei>
>() is evaluated as a file?
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: date|cat ~ date > >(cat)
<whitequark>
date >(cat) cannot be reproduced with | syntax
<larsc>
pcercuei: kind of
* DocScrutinizer05
gives up and ponders having some real food
<larsc>
you could do the same using pipes
<whitequark>
larsc: could you?
<larsc>
s/pipes/named pipes
<qi-bot>
larsc meant: "you could do the same using named pipes"
<whitequark>
oh. yeah. it's even more contrived to use though
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd like to see it using named pipes. Might help me to grok it
<larsc>
mkfifo pipe1; mkfifo pipe2; rtl_fm ... | tee pipe1 pipe2& ./multimon ... pipe1& play ... pipe2
<DocScrutinizer05>
could you use the simpler date >(cat) ?
<larsc>
no
<larsc>
that doesn;t make any sense
<DocScrutinizer05>
ohwell
<DocScrutinizer05>
cya
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<larsc>
date > >(cat) on the other hand would be. mkfifo pipe; data > pipe& cat pipe
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, now I think I got it
<larsc>
pcercuei: btw. did you already had your phone call?
<DocScrutinizer05>
>(...) returns a FD that's used as stdin in the command inside ()
<whitequark>
exactly
<larsc>
but the fd looks like a regular file to the other program
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
wget -O >(less)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wget -O >(less -) even
<ysionneau>
with which shell does this work?
<larsc>
bash
<larsc>
and zsh
<ysionneau>
weird, I cannot get it to work
<ysionneau>
I tried uname -a >(cat)
<larsc>
uname -a > >(cat)
<ysionneau>
ah, right
<ysionneau>
works:)
<larsc>
but it is a bash-ism I think
<larsc>
so be careful when you use it in scripts
<ysionneau>
ok =)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I gather <() returns a FD pointing to stdout then
<cde>
DocScrutinizer05: but when it is useful as compared to a regular pipe?
<DocScrutinizer05>
when your outer command needs a filename as argument
<DocScrutinizer05>
That makes `tee' write not just to the expected output file, but also to a pipe running `sha1sum' and saving the final checksum in a file named `dvd.sha1'.
<DocScrutinizer05>
Note, however, that this example relies on a feature of modern shells called "process substitution" (the `>(command)' syntax, above; Process Substitution (bashref)Process Substitution.), so it works with `zsh', `bash', and `ksh', but not with `/bin/sh'.
* DocScrutinizer05
tries to recall where his humor got lost
<cde>
a joke with bash in it would have been better, I admit
<DocScrutinizer05>
You can extend this example to make `tee' write to two processes, computing MD5 and SHA1 checksums in parallel. In this case, process substitution is required:
<wpwrak>
now, how do you check for wget failing ? :)
<ysionneau>
it's hard to try not to remember such tricks
<ysionneau>
because you cannot use it for production or important scripts
<ysionneau>
since it's not portable :(
<wpwrak>
bash is pretty much everywhere. sometimes you don't really have a choice.
<wpwrak>
just make sure your script begins with #!/bin/bash, and your makefile with SHELL = /bin/bash
<ysionneau>
99% of the time indeed that works
<larsc>
having scripts that expect bash to be installed are really annoying, in my opinion
<larsc>
especially if they do #!/bin/sh
<ysionneau>
hehe sure this is a serious mistake
<ysionneau>
using bashism and putting /bin/sh in shebang
<wpwrak>
you need bash for things that use pipes and need to check the success of the first command, i.e., with $PIPESTATUS
<larsc>
not if you use named pipes
<larsc>
or subshells
<wpwrak>
yeah, but that's messy
<DocScrutinizer05>
coproc is also nice
<larsc>
best is to not use shell scripts at all, I guess ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I wouldn't want to miss array envs
<wpwrak>
yes. better write the stuff in erlang .net ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
*cough+
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<sanderr>
wpwrak: Errorlevels? (wget failing)
<wpwrak>
the return code, yes
<larsc>
If you are already using >(...) you could slightly rewrite things though: wget -O >(tee >(sha1sum > dvd.sha1) >(md5sum > dvd.md5) > dvd.iso) http://example.com/dvd.iso
<wpwrak>
you could still get errors from the subshells ...
<wpwrak>
e.g., after mkdir dvd.sha1
<wpwrak>
(to not use the standard example of the disk getting full)