Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<qi-bot> Pete Ippel ‽: In addition @fabricatorz @billkendrick @openclipart @sharism @qihardware I'm also planning on giving the presentation on a @Milkymistvj ( 235606080116359168@hypermodern - 40s ago via HootSuite )
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<paul_boddie> Hello again! I did some Wiki tidying, but is there any information about getting OpenWrt build changes adopted anywhere?
<wpwrak> hmm, not sure we have a formal process. i guess posting to the qi-hw list or discussing the changes here ought to do the trick
<wpwrak> and you can always bother xiangfu :)
<paul_boddie> Currently, they're on the Wiki as that was the easiest place to put them temporarily: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Patches-pygame-sdl.tar.gz
<wpwrak> urgh :)
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: someone here badly needs access to downloads.qi-hardware.com ;-)
<paul_boddie> It looked like libsdl_mixer wasn't linking to the Vorbis libraries, and I think someone misunderstood the logic in the configure script for that package, so there's a change to the build Makefile there.
<paul_boddie> The only thing stopping pygame working was the mention of two undesirable libraries in the build configuration. I was really happy to see pygame in the image supplied on the NanoNote, but was disappointed to see it disappear in later images.
<wpwrak> maybe wait a bit to see if someone who's working on openwrt responds here. people who should be able to help with further steps include mth, ayla, kyak, and xiangfu
<wpwrak> if everyone is away, enjoying a beer while watching scantly clad girls playing beach volleyball, then you could just post to the list
<paul_boddie> But I thought the Olympics were over! :-)
<paul_boddie> I'll probably also post to the list, too, as I was just looking for some quick answers here.
<paul_boddie> The only real answers I need would be related to compiling numpy, but I suspect that the toolchain doesn't support the necessary floating point functionality in target programs.
<wpwrak> dunno. does numpy need something unusual ?
<paul_boddie> It includes <fenv.h> which does exist in uClibc but isn't installed as part of the working toolchain. There seems to be workarounds for Cygwin, but I suspect that these are nasty hacks that only work on x86(-64).
<paul_boddie> I might look at the Vorbis/Tremor stuff for inspiration, however.
<mth> wpwrak: we're using buildroot, not openwrt, for OpenDingux; there are lots of similarities though
<kyak> paul_boddie: probably the best way is to send patches to mailing list, someone will take care and merge them
<wpwrak> hmm, fenv.h even seems to be in POSIX. first time i see it, though
<paul_boddie> mth: I'm using the openwrt-xburst stuff.
<paul_boddie> kyak: I guess I'll do that, then. Thanks!
<mth> paul_boddie: these are the configure flags we use: https://github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-buildroot
<mth> the use of tremor instead of the plain libvorbis is important, since softfloat is very slow
<wolfspraul> paul_boddie: just stay in this channel and/or wait for xiangfu's reply, we will definitely get this folded into the builds...
<wolfspraul> you are at the right place here :-)
<paul_boddie> mth: Thanks for the link! I've noticed that if I play Vorbis in pygame it works well, but if I use the play command the sound breaks up badly. So I imagine that there's a linkage change possible with that program, too.
<paul_boddie> I think the SDL mixer stuff was combining --disable-music-ogg with --enable-music-ogg-tremor (and also enabling dynamic loading and explicitly using the tremor library), but without looking at the configure logic, I guess that --disable-music-ogg just short-circuits everything and disables all support.
<paul_boddie> wolfspraul: Do you remember any discussions about floating point support?
<wolfspraul> not really
<wolfspraul> I think there is no hw floating point support on the Ben, and software support is slow...
<wolfspraul> something like that
<paul_boddie> I should really search a bit harder in the uClib documentation for such things, I suppose.
<paul_boddie> By the way, I think the result of everyone's hard work putting the device together and getting the software onto it is really amazing. :-)
<wolfspraul> thanks!
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wolfspraul> that was and continues to be extremely hard indeed
<wolfspraul> lots of people helped...
<wolfspraul> btw today is bison day for me. I'm dusting off my old parser knowledge :-)
<wolfspraul> so far it doesn't really work yet, but I know with bison you have to be a little patient at the beginning, and will be rewarded richly over time :-)
<paul_boddie> After trying a few images out at the weekend, I spent some time reading the list archives to see what discussion I might have missed - I only ever vaguely followed the different projects here, I'm afraid - but I regard the result as a genuine success, even if not everybody's goals were met.
<paul_boddie> I'm really looking forward to trying out some projects, possibly fixing up some stuff on the way, and perhaps eventually getting some low-level software or hardware experience.
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<mth> I'm not sure how the openwrt for the NanoNote handles it, but for OpenDingux we have a toolchain that uses softfloat by default
<mth> there is no hw floating point in Ingenic CPUs until I think JZ4760
<mth> and the in-kernel FPU emulation is much slower still than softfloat
<paul_boddie> I've not really looked at the toolchain configuration yet. I used to use ARM CPUs when they were first around, and the lack of floating point hardware often led to a range of strategies for optimising performance. For pygame, I found that instead of needing numpy, which is a huge bundle of tangential stuff, I can probably use the pixel array support instead, and I suppose there will be similar workarounds for other software.
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<paul_boddie> I guess the uClibc settings of interest are UCLIBC_HAS_FLOATS and UCLIBC_HAS_FPU.
<paul_boddie> And, of course, UCLIBC_HAS_FENV. Maybe that is set as a consequence of the others being set or unset.
<paul_boddie> There seems to be a CONFIG_SOFT_FLOAT setting in the OpenWrt, perhaps similar to the BR2_SOFT_FLOAT in buildroot.
<jow_laptop> yes, that just results in -msoft-float for gcc calls (openwrt softfloat option)
<paul_boddie> Would it give me fenv.h? :-)
<jow_laptop> likely not
<jow_laptop> I only have some C++ related fenv.h here
<jow_laptop> it provides ::fenv_t and ::fexcept_t
<jow_laptop> but no equivalent for C
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<paul_boddie> I'd have to take a look. I swear I saw an fenv.h for C in the uClibc sources as well as the C++ wrapper that appears to get installed, but I'd have to look again and understand what it's for, too.
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<LunaVorax> hi
<pabs3> hola
<LunaVorax> que tal? :P
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<pabs3> no mucho
<LunaVorax> You don't speak spanish pabs3, right?
<pabs3> solo un poco
<LunaVorax> That's great because me neither
<pabs3> :)
<LunaVorax> :P
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