<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [package] base-files: add an experimental "-c" flag which tries to preserve *all* changed files in /overlay/etc minus some system files http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/feaf88f
<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [imagebuilder] fix arch detection pattern to cope with underscores in board name, e.g. "adm5120_mips" http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cbcb7e2
<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [package] util-linux-ng: make build depend on libncurses, cfdisk is compiled unconditionally and will fail with missing input files if ncurses was not detected during configure http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ba59625
<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [include] pass opkg offline root as command line arg, solves caching issues when switching between multiple subtargets, thanks Ralph Hempel for reporting http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5e3ed67
<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [package] 6in4: don't use abbreviated notation for 0.0.0.0/0, iproute apparently does not like it anymore http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7b3bd12
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: another question: the thickness of my board differs indeed from that of ti's reference design that uses the same antenna. i have 0.8 mm, they have 1 mm.
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: the application note says "To compensate for a thicker/thinner PCB the antenna could be made slightly shorter/longer."
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: any idea how to interpret this ? since my board is 20% thinner, should I make my antenna 20% longer ? or maybe 10% ? also, which of the lengths would expand - only L2 ? L2 and L5 ? also L3 ? etc.
<wolfspraul>
kyak: do you know whether we include cyrillic fonts now?
<bartbes>
so, does anyone know why i can't build gforth yet?
<wolfspraul>
I'm working my way through the build system, but not there yet...
<kyak>
wolfspraul: we do, i can read and type cyrillic in console (UTF-8).. with certain limitations right now - those keymaps still need to be adapted to Ben's keyboard layout
<wolfspraul>
kyak: are they included in our normal OpenWrt builds?
<wolfspraul>
(the cyrillic fonts)
<kyak>
there is a new package kbd-console-maps including many standard Linux console fonts
<kyak>
if it is included on a next build, then we would have it
<wolfspraul>
ah ok, cool
<kyak>
oh, no.. not exactly like this
<kyak>
there is a "kbd" package, that provides tools for setting console fonts and manupulating keymap switching
<kyak>
the kbd-console-fonts package includes the fonts
<kyak>
the kbd-console-maps package includes those keymaps
<kyak>
there are several problems: 1) the fonts provided with kbd are too big; 2) keymaps are only partial usable and 3) some user-space programs still don't work correcly in such console
<kyak>
for example, sdcv (console version of stardict) is showing cyrillic correctly, but it doesn't accept cyrillic input
<wolfspraul>
ok, but as a first step we should still include those 3 packages in the image?
<kyak>
i'd like to map the "Ben" key for layout switch instead of "Ctrl" :)
<kyak>
wolfspraul: yes, they can be included (in fact, kbd and kbd-console-fonts were already included i think)
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: moinmoin
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: wasn't there some pointer to details about "longer/shorter" in appnotes of the whole device?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: good morning :)Â Â i found only the sentence i quoted
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: but nothing specific. what i'm loooking for is at least an educated guess for how much i should add
<DocScrutinizer>
I'm sure I've read "for details see application notes of WX5836-4711foobar" OWTTE
<wpwrak>
yes, but that are the details of the reference design board. so there you find out that it's 1.0 mm. an043 doesn't tell you even that.
<wpwrak>
(swr) meter. hmm, they need a lot of power. but i'm beginning to get the concept
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: so ... any suggesting for a first try antenna resizing for the 1 mm to 0.8 mm change ?
<DocScrutinizer>
I'd not care and simply go for the "tunig mod" I suggested (the L shaped end at 'top' of antenna)
<DocScrutinizer>
this "increase/reduce length" is rubbish, nobody gets the real meaning
<DocScrutinizer>
also it unclear to me how exactly PCB thickness influences ant tuning at all
<wpwrak>
okay, so i'll just add a little "tail"
<DocScrutinizer>
however I can see huge impact of even plastic case covering antenna area - of course nothing metal must cover antenna area either side
<wpwrak>
the "description" of the changes necessary is indeed rather vague. ti tend to be obscure about these things in general, it seems. it's also quite a bit of work to find out how to do a balun, assuming you don't want their "just copy the gerbers with all the microstrip inductors" design
<DocScrutinizer>
:nod:
<wpwrak>
the effect of plastic sucks a bit indeed. i think this will be fun. hence my idea to build my own SWR meter, so that I can at least see where things go wrong.
<DocScrutinizer>
In TPE legendary bookstore I bought a nice book about antenae only ~600+ pp. Gave it to Tully, maybe should have sent to you instead :-D
<wpwrak>
heh, i miss that bookstore
<DocScrutinizer>
me too
<DocScrutinizer>
never thought I'd say that but actually I miss whole TPE experience every once in a while :-D
<DocScrutinizer>
modulo the flights
<wpwrak>
there had been good times amidst the bad ones, yes.
<DocScrutinizer>
yeah actually
<wpwrak>
i find it fascinating how often germans complain about little flights of 12 hours or such :)
<DocScrutinizer>
I bet tampere FI couldn't compete, if ever that'd become an option for me
<DocScrutinizer>
only since they forbid smoking
<DocScrutinizer>
flight to New Orleans 1985 was nice. Smokers, whole row for me so I could stretch over 3 seats...
<wpwrak>
i once had a flight geneva-jfk the week after 9/11. that was nice. almost empty ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
hehe
<wolfspraul>
A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A
<wolfspraul>
[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A
<wolfspraul>
d :w
<DocScrutinizer>
uhuh
<wolfspraul>
(sorry)
<DocScrutinizer>
lol
<DocScrutinizer>
hi wolfgang
<wolfspraul>
hi
<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: I think I may have seen that book at Adam's place. Tully gave it to Adam.
<DocScrutinizer>
:-D
<DocScrutinizer>
wolfspraul: any idea if om.com postmaster could be prodded to forward my .com email address?
<DocScrutinizer>
or at least implemet an autoresponder telling about the address should be .org now
<wolfspraul>
I massively doubt this will ever happen.
<viric>
I thought your "are you serious?" was more about "of course it works". But maybe you mean "of course it still does not work" ?
<wolfspraul>
viric: ah no, that's just because I was laughing since yes, there are people in this channel who know an awful lot about FreeRunners... :-)
<wpwrak>
viric: maybe he as referring to the fact that openmoko stopped making phones more than a year ago ...
<wolfspraul>
long story short, if you are a real true hardcore free software lover, go buy your FreeRunner and (most likely) start the suffering
<wpwrak>
viric: ... and of course, you find a surprisingly large number of ex-openmokoers around here :)
<viric>
Hm
<wolfspraul>
out of 100 people, I think maybe 2 or 3 successfully continue to use their FreeRunners as a daily phone after let's say 1 week
<wolfspraul>
most use it as a GPS device, tangopos was by far the most successful application
<viric>
What should I buy, then, if I want a not-expensive quite-free phone?
<wolfspraul>
viric: do you like Android? is that free enough?
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: yoh. can mill away until antenna tuned
<DocScrutinizer>
compare tuning of tha monster ionon or whatever, you linked me to
<wolfspraul>
viric: I have no good advice for you. I switched to the cheapest possible China phones. totally non-free.
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: i'll just try RSSI for now :)
<DocScrutinizer>
RSSI?
<wolfspraul>
most former FreeRunner fans seem to have moved on to Nokia N900 or some Android phones from HTC
<wolfspraul>
but they are all expensive
<viric>
wolfspraul: maybe if they can run j2me programs fine, I'd be happy, if it is cheap enough :)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: received signal strength
<viric>
wolfspraul: are you happy with your phone?
<wolfspraul>
it's off most of the time
<viric>
maybe I should ask someone else :)
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: yepyep. Anyway the tuning of that monster was by "moving the lower lever", which is kinda exactly what you'll do by milling away the lil foot
<wolfspraul>
viric: what you are really looking for doesn't exist right now. cheap & free.
<wolfspraul>
imho it doesn't exist
<viric>
ok
<wolfspraul>
if you have an upper price limit, well, maybe you should just either get the cheapest Android phone, if you think that's free enough, or forget about the freedom thing altogether until another attempt at a free phone comes along.
<DocScrutinizer>
not even N900 with stock maemo is really a fullfeatured everyday phone and still free
<viric>
ok
<viric>
I planned to do that
<wolfspraul>
many people still work on free phones, I consider myself one of them. But admittedly if you look at what i do today, it's quite a stretch to see how that's part of a phone :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
viric: or you reduce expectations about "everyday flawless usage" and actually go for an A7 FR
<DocScrutinizer>
with SHR
<wolfspraul>
but I have nothing for you I would dare to offer you as a 'phone', and will not have it for a while I guess
<viric>
DocScrutinizer: what is that?
<DocScrutinizer>
or maybe QtMoko (heard it's also getting nice lately)
<viric>
DocScrutinizer: a7 fr?
<DocScrutinizer>
FreRunner revision A7
<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: but he needs to be quite generous in terms of lowering his expectations, and also a bit lucky in terms of his network/area.
<DocScrutinizer>
ack
<wolfspraul>
then I agree, he could try, jump into FreeRunner land :-)
<wolfspraul>
viric: if you do it, DocScrutinizer told you so, not me, ok?
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<viric>
ok :)
<DocScrutinizer>
hides
<DocScrutinizer>
viric: you might want to /join #openmoko, #openmoko-cdevel
<viric>
I tried
<viric>
but they remain silen
<viric>
t
<DocScrutinizer>
viric: ask on -cdevel about status of latest SHR
<DocScrutinizer>
unusual
<viric>
but the problems there are in userland software?
<DocScrutinizer>
with A7 revision, yes mostly
<viric>
is a7 a *hardware* revision?
<DocScrutinizer>
yep
<viric>
ok
<viric>
Isn't there any website listing the freedomness of phones?
<DocScrutinizer>
the one where I finilly managed to push a semi-decent fix for buzz issue
<viric>
I'm at linuxfordevices.com taking a look
<DocScrutinizer>
viric: btw A6 with buzzfix alegedly is even a tad better than A7
<wolfspraul>
viric: the freedomness for phones is in such a bad state that any list is mostly a rhetoric exercise anyway. who gets away with what claims of 'openess'.
<DocScrutinizer>
exactly
<bartbes>
tries compiling gforth again
<viric>
I have a journal explaining a bit about the mobile phone manufacturers, and how they behave...
<viric>
I'll take a look
<viric>
(troubles with worker conditions, where they produce, ...)
<bartbes>
okay, seriously
<bartbes>
how come I am the only one with problems when compiling gforth?
<wolfspraul>
you are most likely not
<wolfspraul>
but I am still stuck at the boot issues I am debugging, so can't try out gforth yet... maybe tomorrow...
<wolfspraul>
if you can fix it first, great!
<DocScrutinizer>
viric: [2010-09-12 17:09:19] <mrmoku> basic calls work fine... GPRS and GPS too
<bartbes>
well, it just seems to be a missing file
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Adjusted parsing of component values. Now all capacitors get properly selected. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/636011c
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Moved all capacitor tolerance and _E12_P translations to shared includes. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f2824f1
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added generation of Yageo RC0402 resistors. We can now produce the full BOM. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/499df0e