ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Picolisp latest found at http://www.software-lab.de/down.html | check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
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<Nistur> mornin'
<Regenaxer> Hi Nistur!
<Nistur> hullo :)
<Regenaxer> :)
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<Nistur> Regenaxer: you had fun with Samsung device recently. Now I get to have fun with them
<Nistur> so many headaches.
<Nistur> we knew our client was testing on an S7, so we made sure we have an S7 to test and make sure it's running smoothly
<Nistur> you know I went to buy one the other day
<Nistur> the S7 has two quad core CPUs and a decent GPU in it
<Nistur> it runs near perfectly at 30fps
<Nistur> ... turns out that the client has a model of S7 that for some reason has a totally different chipset (despite still being an S7) which has two dual core CPUs and a totally different GPU
<Regenaxer> I see
<Regenaxer> yeah, it is a mess with all those Samsung model
<Regenaxer> You need to go down till the chipset?
<Nistur> not as such
<Nistur> but the chipsets are relatively different
<Nistur> and we get different bottlenecks depending on chipset
<Regenaxer> understand
<Nistur> some of them are limited by CPU-GPU bandwidth, some of them have underpowered GPUs, some of them have underperforming CPUs (although not that many as it makes the actual device look bad, so this tends to be the strongest bit)
<Nistur> but we have the game running flawlessly on a 2 year old S7, but our client says it runs terribly on their S7... so in this case it makes a big difference
<Regenaxer> Android drives me nuts
<Regenaxer> I don't find the right way to terminate PilBox it seems
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<sriram_> Hi.. I am planning to make a small word game similar to scrabble using the code app as a starting point
<sriram_> OSM code I mean
<Regenaxer> Hi sriram_, ok
<sriram_> because it has the canvas..but I am having some trouble understanding the OSM code...
<Regenaxer> Perhaps the canvas demo is easier?
<sriram_> There is an object osmview (object 'osmView '("Prg" (with 'osmView (run "Prg"))) ....)
<sriram_> but I am not able to understand ("Prg" ...) . I know this should generate the class of the object
<sriram_> but cannot see how this is passed in
<sriram_> oh I did not realize there is a canvas demo
<Regenaxer> First of all 'osmView' is a normal function
<Regenaxer> '("Prg" (with 'osmView (run "Prg")))
<Regenaxer> plus some properties
<sriram_> (seeing if there is a ref to canvas demo in OSM)
<sriram_> ah yes (simple canvas drawing)
<Regenaxer> right
<sriram_> yes this is indeed a better starting point for me
<Regenaxer> a minimal use case
<sriram_> although I would still like to understand how to read (object 'osmView '("Prg" (with 'osmView (run "Prg"))) ....) :)
<sriram_> (object 'Obj '(+A +B +C) 'a 1 'b 2 'c 3) I can understand
<Regenaxer> yes, '(+A +B +C)
<Regenaxer> is the value
<sriram_> so Obj is a function with a value and some properties then
<Regenaxer> and here ("Prg" (with 'osmView (run "Prg"))) is the value, ie a function
<Regenaxer> yep
<Regenaxer> agreed, a bit unusual
<Regenaxer> it keeps its own state
<sriram_> so when one does (osmview Prg), the value gets called with "Prg" = Prg
<sriram_> yes I understand now
<sriram_> yes a closure perhaps?
<Regenaxer> not a closure I would say
<sriram_> except that because it is an object, the state values can be changed
<Regenaxer> more an object without inheritance and methods
<Regenaxer> yes, like in
<Regenaxer> (osmView
<Regenaxer> (=: home *Top)
<Regenaxer> (=: lt Lat)
<Regenaxer> (=: scl 128)
<Regenaxer> (=: ln Lon)
<Regenaxer> (=: nd Nd) ) )
<Regenaxer> All the buttons modify its state
<sriram_> yes thats the inital state...and then
<sriram_> (gui '(+Rid +Button) "Go" '(osmView (=: lt (val> (: home lt))) (=: ln (val> (: home ln)))
<Regenaxer> exactly
<sriram_> (sorry the paste does not work well)
<sriram_> ok I underrstand better now.
<sriram_> but now in the canvas function, I will define an upper panel where I can store letters (tiles), and a grid where the letters can be placed. I am struggling
<sriram_> with the concept of dragging a tile onto the grid and how to get the "tile" to "move" once selected and dragged
<sriram_> I saw the mouse click and drag parameters
<sriram_> passed to canvas
<Regenaxer> yes
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<sriram_> i can experiment a bit with the canvas
<sriram_> to find out more
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<sriram_> thanks for pointing me to the starting point
<Regenaxer> ok, I must confess that I also did not look at it for a while
<sriram_> no problem. Since this is a game we play in our home (and that I know well) I think it is a good learning point for me, and useful
<sriram_> Later I will add the db to track scores
<Regenaxer> good :)
<sriram_> Will let you know if I get stuck :)....thanks again
<Regenaxer> :)
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<Regenaxer> afp
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<Regenaxer> ret
<beneroth> hi
<beneroth> Guten Abend Regenaxer :)
<Regenaxer> Hi beneroth!
<sriram_> Hi....was using phone gui in a desktop to see how it behaves there...was debugging the case just after login
<beneroth> I spent the day tracking some memory corruption in a 30 year old C application. Array overflow because a database table got over 320k entries -> a (kinda random) variable was overwritten -> bamm.
<beneroth> hey sriram_. your project sounds exciting. I wish you well with it :D
<Regenaxer> Masochistical ;)
<sriram_> where the menu/bar (App Text Graphics) was obscuring teh top of the login page
<sriram_> beneroth...thanks :) it is a good learning experience mainly, but I hope we will use it too.
<beneroth> Regenaxer, well the software is meant to be replaced soon(TM). has no boundary checks in the code. hopefully the next overflow also hits a variable which causes a loud error and not a silent corruption :)
<Regenaxer> sriram_, if you have an Android phone, I recommend to try demo.zip
<Regenaxer> it is a slight modification of the old demo
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<Regenaxer> beneroth, let's hope ;)
<sriram_> and I came across (<div> @ ...) and (bar? @)..was wondering what the @ was in this instance...does not fit the "many uses of @"?
<beneroth> probably @ means "last result" here? do you have some more context?
<Regenaxer> right, <layout> (and perhaps <bar>) use it explicitly
<sriram_> Regenaxer...sure. but I was thinking we would be using the game with both phone as well as laptop, so wanted to see how it behaves
<beneroth> ah
<Regenaxer> sriram_, ok
<beneroth> cool
<Regenaxer> beneroth, yes, also a kind of last result, but holds css styles
<sriram_> (yes...i was thinking the last result of some logical check...but could not see where it would come from)
<sriram_> oh i see...yes, css styles is more likely as it is the first arg to the <div>
<Regenaxer> yep
<sriram_> ok thanks...the <layout> does not seem to work as well in the desktop case, I think..since the 'bar' div obscures the 'main' div instead of stacking vertically
<Regenaxer> Actually, I don't use <bar> at all in PilBox app
<sriram_> the other reason for trying this is i was hoping to develop the app in the desktop, and then deploy to android...
<Regenaxer> I do all with <layout> in PilBox too
<Regenaxer> yes, this is good
<Regenaxer> My current project (BTG) is such dual-use
<Regenaxer> works perfectly on both with identical code
<Regenaxer> especially on tablets
<Regenaxer> (BTG uses tablets in field)
<sriram_> Perhaps I should explore what css styles are passed to the two divs, the bar div and the main div. Maybe this is the culprit rather than the <layout>
<sriram_> (is BTG an acronym or perhaps a company name?)
<Regenaxer> hmm, I think Bawaria Transport Group
<Regenaxer> btg.de
<sriram_> ah a company
<Regenaxer> my longest-lasting customer, since 18 years
<sriram_> nice!
<sriram_> good to have such a long standing relation...and support
<Regenaxer> T
<sriram_> back to the debugging :) thanks..
<Regenaxer> :)
<sriram_> (downloading demo.zip)
<Regenaxer> good
<Regenaxer> I'm debugging PilBox
<Regenaxer> drives me crazy
<Regenaxer> I have a certain problem since the beginning
<Regenaxer> The app restarts automatically sometimes after it is stopped
<Regenaxer> This is nasty and gives unexpected results
<sriram_> perhaps an android os-related issue?
<Regenaxer> It happens only if it is running as a foreground service
<Regenaxer> (startForeground "Simple Links" "Service active")
<Regenaxer> not sure
<Regenaxer> Before stopSelf() call (stopForeground) in Lisp
<Regenaxer> if I call (stopForeground) manually a few seconds before stop, it is fine
<beneroth> race condition? have you tried to put a (wait 'something) in it?
<Regenaxer> buw (stopForeground) quickly followed by stopSelf() in Java in the app fails
<beneroth> weird
<Regenaxer> I tried wait, but this does not help
<Regenaxer> makes it worse
<Regenaxer> especially on slow systems (emu 32)
<Regenaxer> It seems that if it does not stop very fast, it restarts it
<Regenaxer> there is a flag START_NOT_STICKY where the docs say it inhibits restart
<Regenaxer> but still ... :(
<sriram_> maybe something like a watchdog timer causing the restart?
<Regenaxer> I don't know
<sriram_> if app is busy
<Regenaxer> strange indeed
<Regenaxer> it is not busy
<Regenaxer> The service is stopped, picolisp terminated, files cleaned up
<Regenaxer> And then, after about 10 seconds, it starts again in the background
<beneroth> can't you query android how/who started your application?
<Regenaxer> The onCreate() method is called
<Regenaxer> well, START_NOT_STICKY is supposed to control that
<sriram_> maybe because it is registered as a service?
<Regenaxer> It is not "registered" in such a sense
<Regenaxer> In the above link "Override the onStartCommand() method in your service, and have it return START_NOT_STICKY" is what I'm doing
<Regenaxer> But neither START_NOT_STICKY nor START_STICKY change anything
<sriram_> yes...and the stopSelf() also seems useful
<sriram_> from the webpage you linked to
<Regenaxer> I think these flags apply to when whe OS killed the service
<Regenaxer> But here *I* terminate it with stopSelf()
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Regenaxer> I trace it, and see that onCreate() is definitely called
<Regenaxer> only when the service was running with (startForeground / stopForeground
<sriram_> (Reading https://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Service.html which gives more info about START_NOT_STICKY)
<Regenaxer> Normas Apps like demo.zip do not show this
<Regenaxer> yes, but the doc is rather obscure in this regard
<sriram_> yes...it does not talk about restart :(
<Regenaxer> yeah, and the difference is not clear
<Regenaxer> yeah, this changed over time
<sriram_> is the memory perhaps full ?
<Regenaxer> not at all
<sriram_> because maybe the app is restarted when memory becomes available again
<sriram_> ok...guess not in this case
<Regenaxer> yes, but no problem here
<Regenaxer> and then it would be terminated by Android, not stopSelf
<Regenaxer> And it is *only* when it was running in foreground mode
<sriram_> these flags seem only to be useful if the process is killed and os needs to decide whether to restart it
<Regenaxer> yes, killed by os
<sriram_> so perhaps not the solution to your problem
<Regenaxer> in my case they seem irrelevant
<Regenaxer> T
<Regenaxer> Somehow stopForeground seems not finished
<Regenaxer> and OS thinks it must restart it
<Regenaxer> The problem is that I need foreground for some app
<Regenaxer> not BTG, but for the firemen and for another logistics app
<sriram_> but not so relevant because it was stopped deliberately
<Regenaxer> but related
<sriram_> Does this seem to be useful? To clarify, it is possible to use the library in a way that doesn't automatically restart the service -- you just have to remove the StartupBroadcastReceiver manifest entry (easier than it sounds.) While this is a fine solution for foreground-only apps, it won't help your case, because what you want is for the beacon service not to be stopped when the user closes the app from the task switcher.
<sriram_> (in your case, you want the service to be stopped when you do a stop, so maybe it is useful?)
<Regenaxer> Hmm, not sure what this library does
<sriram_> I know but seems to me that perhaps the manifest may be a starting point
<Regenaxer> yes, looked there today too
<Regenaxer> eg launcMode
<Regenaxer> I use android:launchMode="singleTask"
<Regenaxer> Tried others without any success
<Regenaxer> Perhaps simply my stopForeground function is faulty?
<Regenaxer> no
<sriram_> I am seeing a different way of stopping
<Regenaxer> if I call it manually in
<Regenaxer> the REPL it works
<sriram_> it uses stopService(stopIntent) instead of stopForeground
<Regenaxer> stopService(stopIntent) corresponds to stopSelf
<sriram_> not sure if it is worth trying
<Regenaxer> independent of foreground
<Regenaxer> stopService(stopIntent) is called from outside
<Regenaxer> but has the same internals as stopSelf according to the docs
<Regenaxer> I think the foreground becomes irrelevant when the service is stopped
<Regenaxer> but still I observe this behavior of restarting
<Regenaxer> *when* the service was foreground
<sriram_> seems the stopForeground(true) should be enough
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Regenaxer> But the effect is as if stopForeground(true) was not called
<Regenaxer> if I comment (stopForeground) I get the same
<sriram_> One idea...maybe if the onCreate call is called subsequently, it can check a file and not restart?
<sriram_> so that even if os does call it, it wont actually start?
<Regenaxer> I thought so too, but what to check?
<Regenaxer> Stopping cleans up
<sriram_> a local file?
<Regenaxer> eg PID file
<sriram_> stopping may write "Manual stop" to the file
<sriram_> so that onCreate will see it and not start?
<Regenaxer> No, then it will not start ever
<sriram_> when automatically started..but then how would it ever start again
<sriram_> yes :(
<Regenaxer> PilBox terminates, and should start next time
<Regenaxer> onCreate is the first thing called
<Regenaxer> hmm
<Regenaxer> wait
<Regenaxer> The Activity could do something, right
<Regenaxer> app/src/main/java/de/software_lab/pilbox/PilBoxActivity.java
<Regenaxer> It calls startService
<sriram_> ah yes
<Regenaxer> So here we know it must start
<sriram_> maybe it could clear the file
<Regenaxer> It is a dirty hack though
<sriram_> I know...just temp measure
<Regenaxer> temp, well, I have this since one year ;)
<sriram_> you have this fix already?
<Regenaxer> Nono, I must think
<sriram_> i meant temp fix...not temp problem :)
<Regenaxer> ah
<Regenaxer> I thought a dirty fix only for some time
<sriram_> yes thats what I meant
<Regenaxer> A "clean" fix would be better
<Regenaxer> cause there is no solution in sight
<sriram_> yes..thats why...more of a workaround for the moment
<Regenaxer> right, and so I'm afraid it will not be just a moment then
<Regenaxer> regarding how long it is already
<Regenaxer> I investigate how the startup env is
<Regenaxer> whether the Service can determine where the start came from
<sriram_> i wonder if a google support ticket would be possible? would they help at all...
<beneroth> could make it worse
<Regenaxer> no idea, did not know such would exist
<sriram_> worse? not sure how could that be? just asking why a foreground service could be prevented from restarting...
<sriram_> i mean how
<Regenaxer> I think I try to go with a global
<Regenaxer> there is GUI in the activity
<Regenaxer> let me try
<Regenaxer> GUI is set in void start(Bundle state) throws IOException {
<Regenaxer> I can clear it upon stop()
<Regenaxer> and check in onCreate
<Regenaxer> dirty ... :(
<sriram_> yes that is better than file though but still not so clean...(but will give time to investigate more)
<Regenaxer> right, pragmatism ;)
<Regenaxer> I'm changing now
<sriram_> he who runs away...lives to fight another day :)
<Regenaxer> haha, very true!
<Regenaxer> Seems to work with the GUI global
<Regenaxer> hmm, not really
<Regenaxer> It crashes if GUI is null
<Regenaxer> Seems that some part still run despite PicLisp is terminated and the Service stopped
<Regenaxer> Again reproducibly only if it was foreground
<Regenaxer> The foreground is nasty, can't get rid of it
<Regenaxer> I should need a way to find out *when* the Service is completely stopped
<Regenaxer> after stopSelf()
<Regenaxer> Ha!!
<Regenaxer> I have put GUI = null; into public void onDestroy()
<Regenaxer> so it is called later
<Regenaxer> Now no crash
<sriram_> oh nice
<sriram_> so the global works now?
<Regenaxer> Cool!
<Regenaxer> yes, now it seems to work
<sriram_> yay :)
<Regenaxer> Only a minimal change:
<Regenaxer> > if (GUI == null) // Spurious restart
<Regenaxer> >
<Regenaxer> > }
<Regenaxer> 95a98,101
<Regenaxer> > return; // Not started from PilBoxActivity
<Regenaxer> > @Override public void onDestroy() {
<Regenaxer> > GUI = null;
<Regenaxer> :)
<Regenaxer> I'll test more tomorrow, also with customer
<Regenaxer> Then release
<Regenaxer> But still strange why this is necessary
<Regenaxer> It *is* still restarted, I just abort the onCreate()
<Regenaxer> dirty :(
<sriram_> <thumbs up> :) ... I know..quite a few inexplicable behaviors when i was working with phone gap too
<sriram_> apply bandaid as needed :)
<Regenaxer> (grumble) ;)
<sriram_> btw...on an unrelated topic :) how do i test the demo.zip..there is no port on it
<sriram_> that shouldnt be (grumble) but (whew) ;)
<Regenaxer> You need PilBox on your device
<Regenaxer> ok, yes :)
<Regenaxer> You have a phone with arm64 CPU?
<sriram_> oh i c..was just hoping to see why the <layout> is not working on my desktop
<Regenaxer> then just fetch PilBox from Google Play
<sriram_> (yes i do...samsung s5..that I think it is arm64)
<Regenaxer> demo.zip uses @lib/android.l, so it does not run on desktop
<sriram_> ok (maybe i should read the pilbox article then)
<Regenaxer> yes, or just try
<Regenaxer> if you install PilBox and start it, it will complain if it is 32bit
<sriram_> so you dont use (<bar> anymore for phone apps?
<Regenaxer> Then you can install emu
<sriram_> ok..
<Regenaxer> yes, no <bar>
<Regenaxer> I use large buttons
<sriram_> but bar was changing the menu system from vertical to horizontal
<Regenaxer> yes, this was the idea
<sriram_> and also the submenu behavior
<Regenaxer> yep
<Regenaxer> we could use it
<Regenaxer> Perhaps I just did not need it
<Regenaxer> using large buttons for the initial navi
<Regenaxer> and then just links an back/fore
<sriram_> ok..will test it out...thanks
<Regenaxer> The pil logo on top left always returns to the app's start page
<sriram_> (installing)
<Regenaxer> You can install several pil.zip's in a single PilBox
<Regenaxer> if more than one is installed, you get a page with start buttons
<sriram_> :( pilbox=arm64 OS/CPU=armeaabi-v7a
<Regenaxer> ok, so it is 32 bit
<sriram_> is what i get on startup
<sriram_> so i need to install emu
<Regenaxer> Go with Chrome on https://software-lab.de/arm32.zip
<Regenaxer> yes
<Regenaxer> Close PilBox first
<Regenaxer> then open the ZIP in Chrome
<sriram_> yes
<Regenaxer> You should get an empty PilBox with just two icons on top
<sriram_> opened with pilbox
<sriram_> but getting a permission denied error
<Regenaxer> oops
<sriram_> for arm32.zip
<Regenaxer> Perhaps go to Android settings / Apps / PilBox
<sriram_> chrome gave me an open button and choice to open with PilBox
<Regenaxer> yes, this was fine so far
<Regenaxer> Enable storage and location
<Regenaxer> location is only needed for GPS
<sriram_> done
<Regenaxer> Perhaps it needs storage permission to load the ZIZ?
<Regenaxer> ZIP
<sriram_> yes..maybe
<sriram_> i will stop it and retry
<Regenaxer> Every phone is different it seems
<Regenaxer> And Samsung does strange things too
<sriram_> ah it works
<Regenaxer> Cool!!
<sriram_> picolisp logo on left...settings wheel on right
<Regenaxer> Good to know
<Regenaxer> So it was the storage permission?
<sriram_> yes
<Regenaxer> Perfect
<Regenaxer> I must remember this
<Regenaxer> ok
<Regenaxer> now the same with https://software-lab.de/demo.zip
<sriram_> yes..i was wondering
<sriram_> no need to close pl this time?
<Regenaxer> Best to close I think
<sriram_> ah ok
<Regenaxer> so loads it upon start
<Regenaxer> Though I think it works also hot plugging
<Regenaxer> For a minimal example also https://software-lab.de/hello.zip
<Regenaxer> So you have 4 apps to play with
<sriram_> close pil box each time before opening the next one?
<sriram_> in chrome?
<Regenaxer> You can try without closing
<sriram_> ok...
<Regenaxer> yes, download and open in the browser is easiest
<Regenaxer> I install them directly from Termux on the tablet though
<Regenaxer> doing all dev on the tablet
<Regenaxer> changing files, zip them, and install
<Regenaxer> or change files in the REPL in PilBox for quick tests
<sriram_> yes...(no need to close PilBox in between)
<sriram_> all 4 apps are there
<Regenaxer> cool
<Regenaxer> :)
<Regenaxer> The radio is the only demo using a database
<Regenaxer> hello is absolute minimum
<sriram_> no way to go home after using calculator...
<Regenaxer> you can with a trick
<sriram_> ah
<sriram_> :)
<Regenaxer> via settings, then again on the settings icon
<sriram_> was just between the two arrows
<sriram_> oh nice!
<Regenaxer> so 2 times settings
<sriram_> are you supposed to be able to see canvas on demo?
<Regenaxer> yes
<sriram_> i see the buttons..but when I click on canvas nothing happens
<Regenaxer> it is slow in emu perhaps
<sriram_> maybe slower because of emu
<Regenaxer> T
<Regenaxer> Still nothing?
<sriram_> yes...there is delay..canvas is finally there...very nice
<Regenaxer> :)
<Regenaxer> I'm not 100% sure if emu is flawless
<Regenaxer> But better than nothing
<sriram_> now...if i want to write code and test it in pilbox...i must get the termux
<Regenaxer> you can try the repl first
<sriram_> ?
<sriram_> there is repl in pilbiox?
<Regenaxer> hitting the logo on the start page
<sriram_> I tried Edit -> (+ 3 4) -> Done ..but result is NIL
<Regenaxer> ah
<Regenaxer> (+ 3 4) just enter
<sriram_> i think there is some delay because the : comes after (+ 3 4)
<Regenaxer> Enter or the Eval button gives -> 7
<Regenaxer> but if you enter "hello/App.l"
<Regenaxer> and press Edit
<Regenaxer> you can modify the source of the Hello app
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<Regenaxer> And: If you enter $ ls -l you can execute shell commands
<Regenaxer> So this REPL has three functions: Lisp, Shell or Edit
<sriram_> i have to figure out a way for my keyboard to not capitalize the first letter :(
<Regenaxer> oh
<sriram_> i was making a mistake by entering the expression in the big window rather than the one
<sriram_> line ...now (+ 3 4) ENTER works :)
<Regenaxer> ah, yes, in the big window is only input when editing
<Regenaxer> then try $ ls -l
<Regenaxer> or $ ps
<Regenaxer> ie when the first char is $ it calls a shell
<Regenaxer> otherwise Lisp
<Regenaxer> and a filename plus Edit lets you modify the file
<sriram_> yay!
<sriram_> wow!
<Regenaxer> I do really do a lot of production work in this REPL
<sriram_> ls -l and ps both ok
<sriram_> but i can see why penti is so much needed
<Regenaxer> you can see the log
<Regenaxer> $ cat log
<sriram_> yes i see the log file too
<Regenaxer> great
<Regenaxer> I put 'msg' calls for debugging
<Regenaxer> they show up in the log then
<sriram_> Thanks a lot...I will play with this some more...and see if I can start editing here too...
<Regenaxer> Welcome!
<Regenaxer> The only problem with the editor is that it has no "search" functionality
<Regenaxer> and handling is clumsy
<Regenaxer> but again, better than nothing
<beneroth> :)
<beneroth> gz on the restart issue "fix" :)
<Regenaxer> Yeap! :)
<Regenaxer> We can live with it
<Regenaxer> Despite I feel uneasy, because I do not understand what exactly goes on
<beneroth> you can't, too many turtles you didn't grow yourself
<Regenaxer> T
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<Regenaxer> Hmm, this solution is not good
<Regenaxer> Now alarms don't work any longer
<Regenaxer> Intent broadcasts start PilBox in the background
<Regenaxer> Must think about it tomorrow then
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<beneroth> maybe interesting:
<beneroth> Overview over linux IO access methods
<beneroth> written by the guy who created KVM. apparently working now on DB tech.
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