ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Picolisp latest found at http://www.software-lab.de/down.html | check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
<clacke[m]> If you realize that 24h news isn't this essential information that it's every citizen's duty to keep up with, but a form of entertainment that has an aura of seriousness, and a metronome to give people a shared topic during morning tea, it's easier to ditch.
<beneroth> clacke[m], T
<beneroth> I think this is completely separate from the topic how a news source/aggregation gets financed or what "message" they want to distribute.
<beneroth> another aspect is that there is just to much "news", so much that real "news" is hard to find/filter. in the context of "apps" and "games" sales this is called the "problem of discoverability"
<beneroth> time is the most valuable resource.
<beneroth> good night
<clacke[m]> No. If you think they are this societal institution for the betterment of mankind and for informing us of the important things we ought to know about, you will behave differently toward them than if you think they are attention-seeking ad agencies.
<beneroth> T
<clacke[m]> sleep well
<beneroth> I have come to the conclusion that there are no real objective institutions for the betterment of mankind. mainly because "betterment of mankind" is a very broad and undefined position, everyone and every group/organisation believes this about themselves.
<beneroth> so my strategy to think about this things is to assume that all actors are attention-seeking agencies. aren't they? without attention - why talk?
<clacke[m]> T
<clacke[m]> anyway, down with pedestals I think is the core here
jibanes has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jibanes has joined #picolisp
orivej has joined #picolisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
mtsd has joined #picolisp
<mtsd> Hello everyone
<Regenaxer> Hi mtsd!
<mtsd> I started practising using Penti and a tablet. So far I am very good at filling termux screens with jibberish :)
<Regenaxer> haha :)
<mtsd> Irc will be done using a regular keyboard, for some time to come ;)
<Regenaxer> yes, takes some time
<Regenaxer> Normal text is not a problem
<Regenaxer> but all those control stuff used in shell and editing
<mtsd> I can imagine. My first goal is to be able to write my own name :)
<mtsd> I will print the cheat sheet and practice
<Regenaxer> good
<beneroth> Good morning
<mtsd> Good morning beneroth
<Regenaxer> Hi beneroth
<beneroth> mtsd, yeah I also started with a print out and a typing train app. Though one has to find one which fits to be used with penti. *someone* should make one for penti (with pilBox?) ;-)
<beneroth> now I can type normal text, but I haven't trained to code with penti yet.
<mtsd> This is like teaching your children to write, almost.
<mtsd> Teaching yourself again. Good challenge for the brain
<Regenaxer> Or like learning to play piano
<Regenaxer> lots of practicing
<mtsd> Keeps your head fresh :)
<Regenaxer> Exactly :)
freeemint has joined #picolisp
C-Keen has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
C-Keen has joined #picolisp
C-Keen has quit [Client Quit]
C-Keen has joined #picolisp
orivej has joined #picolisp
freeemint has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
aw- has joined #picolisp
<aw-> hi all
<Regenaxer> Hi aw-
<aw-> playing with (and (from .. (till))
<aw-> not sure how to use it with input from a file
<Regenaxer> With 'in' ?
<aw-> (in file (from… ) ?
<aw-> doesn't work
<Regenaxer> Should be fine
<Regenaxer> File or socket are the same here
<aw-> it only reads the 1st line
<Regenaxer> 'from' does not care about lines or other structures
<Regenaxer> it just reads the stream
<aw-> oh ok
<aw-> so i need a while or something
<Regenaxer> yes
<Regenaxer> (while (from "foo" "bar") ...)
<Regenaxer> (while (from "foo" "bar") (case @ ...
<beneroth> Regenaxer, (from) takes strings as arguments (multiple characters). (till) only takes a list of characters (as a string) as argument. Why not supporting whole strings in (till) ?
<Regenaxer> yeah, that is a disadvantage
<beneroth> I guess because than the till implementation would need an additional buffer, to store characters before deciding if it goes into the result or if its the search string?
<Regenaxer> Has efficiency reasons
<Regenaxer> you need to look ahead and backtrack when scanning for strings
<Regenaxer> yep
<beneroth> ok
<aw-> can't you do (till char T) ?
<Regenaxer> 'echo' does this though
<beneroth> T
<beneroth> aw-, T is the flag if the result should be a list of characters or a packed string
<aw-> right
<beneroth> Regenaxer, yeah maybe one could overload (till char [flg]) vs (till 'lst [flg]) ('lst being a list of strings here)
<Regenaxer> right
<Regenaxer> I don't remember well the internal reasons
<beneroth> just an idea.
<beneroth> multi-char separators are not that uncommon - so in case of reading such a input, one would need to do the bagtracking and checks on the lisp level as (till) doesn't support it - so even more waste
<beneroth> no priority whatsoever
<aw-> (in File (while (from "something") … (till "endstring"))) doesnt work
<Regenaxer> yes, but you can do that with current 'till' too
<Regenaxer> aw-, exactly what we discussed
<beneroth> aw-, till wants a single character. a string is interpreted as a list of possible stop characters.
<Regenaxer> beneroth, not a single char
<aw-> oh haha
<beneroth> a single or a string of possible chars
<beneroth> sorry for my wording
<Regenaxer> it scans until *one* of the chars in the string is found
<Regenaxer> yep
<beneroth> aw-, (in File (while (from "something") .. (till " "))) would work.
<aw-> so what's the workaround?
<Regenaxer> yes, you pass a string of delimiters
<beneroth> afk
<Regenaxer> I usually do till the next known delimiter
<aw-> what if my delimiter is #### ?
<Regenaxer> and then 'match' or similar on the result
<aw-> the same character 4 times
<Regenaxer> you do a loop
<Regenaxer> till "#" and then 'peek' etc
<aw-> a loop inside the while loop?
<Regenaxer> yes
<aw-> hmmm
<Regenaxer> 'till' is a bit unlucky here :)
<aw-> maybe i'd rather only use (from), and then once i have the entire string until eof, then i can split with "#" "#" ...
<Regenaxer> yes, if the file is not so large
<Regenaxer> otherwis till some known delimiter
<aw-> it's not
<Regenaxer> eg '\n'
<Regenaxer> ok
<Regenaxer> or you pipe through 'echo'
<Regenaxer> (while (echo "###") (prin "|"))
<Regenaxer> this replaces three # with a single |
<Regenaxer> (pipe (in File (while (echo "###") (prin "|"))) (while (from "|") ...
<Regenaxer> a kludge ;)
<aw-> yikes
<aw-> ok maybe i'll try some things
<aw-> thanks
<Regenaxer> :)
<Regenaxer> 'till' should be fixed in the long range, as beneroth suggested (overload te first arg)
<aw-> yeah
<Regenaxer> Afraid to do so. The code is quite complicated in 'echo' ;)
<Regenaxer> It maintains an array of floating buffers
<Regenaxer> Quite a mess
<Regenaxer> A "Buffer chain" on the stack
<aw-> would be useful
<aw-> but there's other workarounds, so no worries
<Regenaxer> yeah, not a kill criterion
<beneroth> T
<Regenaxer> (till 'lst) wont work, as a list is accepted already now
<Regenaxer> 'any'
<Regenaxer> So it could be (till "chars" 'flg "str1" "str2" ..)
<Regenaxer> Stops at a char or a string, whatever comes first
<Regenaxer> Nasty to implement though ;)
<Regenaxer> Must be done in asm, C and Java :(
alexshendi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<Regenaxer> for pil32, mini, pil64 and Ersatz
mtsd has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<beneroth> aye
<beneroth> bbl
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej has joined #picolisp
mario-go` has joined #picolisp
mario-goulart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
aw- has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
C-Keen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
C-Keen has joined #picolisp
dtornabene has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
dtornabene has joined #picolisp
alexshendi has joined #picolisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
libertas has joined #picolisp
dtornabene has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
dtornabene has joined #picolisp
dtornabene has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
xificurC has joined #picolisp
freemint has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
xificurC has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1]
alexshendi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej has joined #picolisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
freemint has joined #picolisp
freemint has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]