<clacke[m]>
If you realize that 24h news isn't this essential information that it's every citizen's duty to keep up with, but a form of entertainment that has an aura of seriousness, and a metronome to give people a shared topic during morning tea, it's easier to ditch.
<beneroth>
clacke[m], T
<beneroth>
I think this is completely separate from the topic how a news source/aggregation gets financed or what "message" they want to distribute.
<beneroth>
another aspect is that there is just to much "news", so much that real "news" is hard to find/filter. in the context of "apps" and "games" sales this is called the "problem of discoverability"
<beneroth>
time is the most valuable resource.
<beneroth>
good night
<clacke[m]>
No. If you think they are this societal institution for the betterment of mankind and for informing us of the important things we ought to know about, you will behave differently toward them than if you think they are attention-seeking ad agencies.
<beneroth>
T
<clacke[m]>
sleep well
<beneroth>
I have come to the conclusion that there are no real objective institutions for the betterment of mankind. mainly because "betterment of mankind" is a very broad and undefined position, everyone and every group/organisation believes this about themselves.
<beneroth>
so my strategy to think about this things is to assume that all actors are attention-seeking agencies. aren't they? without attention - why talk?
<clacke[m]>
T
<clacke[m]>
anyway, down with pedestals I think is the core here
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<mtsd>
Hello everyone
<Regenaxer>
Hi mtsd!
<mtsd>
I started practising using Penti and a tablet. So far I am very good at filling termux screens with jibberish :)
<Regenaxer>
haha :)
<mtsd>
Irc will be done using a regular keyboard, for some time to come ;)
<Regenaxer>
yes, takes some time
<Regenaxer>
Normal text is not a problem
<Regenaxer>
but all those control stuff used in shell and editing
<mtsd>
I can imagine. My first goal is to be able to write my own name :)
<mtsd>
I will print the cheat sheet and practice
<Regenaxer>
good
<beneroth>
Good morning
<mtsd>
Good morning beneroth
<Regenaxer>
Hi beneroth
<beneroth>
mtsd, yeah I also started with a print out and a typing train app. Though one has to find one which fits to be used with penti. *someone* should make one for penti (with pilBox?) ;-)
<beneroth>
now I can type normal text, but I haven't trained to code with penti yet.
<mtsd>
This is like teaching your children to write, almost.
<mtsd>
Teaching yourself again. Good challenge for the brain
<Regenaxer>
Or like learning to play piano
<Regenaxer>
lots of practicing
<mtsd>
Keeps your head fresh :)
<Regenaxer>
Exactly :)
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<aw->
hi all
<Regenaxer>
Hi aw-
<aw->
playing with (and (from .. (till))
<aw->
not sure how to use it with input from a file
<Regenaxer>
With 'in' ?
<aw->
(in file (from… ) ?
<aw->
doesn't work
<Regenaxer>
Should be fine
<Regenaxer>
File or socket are the same here
<aw->
it only reads the 1st line
<Regenaxer>
'from' does not care about lines or other structures
<Regenaxer>
it just reads the stream
<aw->
oh ok
<aw->
so i need a while or something
<Regenaxer>
yes
<Regenaxer>
(while (from "foo" "bar") ...)
<Regenaxer>
(while (from "foo" "bar") (case @ ...
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, (from) takes strings as arguments (multiple characters). (till) only takes a list of characters (as a string) as argument. Why not supporting whole strings in (till) ?
<Regenaxer>
yeah, that is a disadvantage
<beneroth>
I guess because than the till implementation would need an additional buffer, to store characters before deciding if it goes into the result or if its the search string?
<Regenaxer>
Has efficiency reasons
<Regenaxer>
you need to look ahead and backtrack when scanning for strings
<Regenaxer>
yep
<beneroth>
ok
<aw->
can't you do (till char T) ?
<Regenaxer>
'echo' does this though
<beneroth>
T
<beneroth>
aw-, T is the flag if the result should be a list of characters or a packed string
<aw->
right
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, yeah maybe one could overload (till char [flg]) vs (till 'lst [flg]) ('lst being a list of strings here)
<Regenaxer>
right
<Regenaxer>
I don't remember well the internal reasons
<beneroth>
just an idea.
<beneroth>
multi-char separators are not that uncommon - so in case of reading such a input, one would need to do the bagtracking and checks on the lisp level as (till) doesn't support it - so even more waste
<beneroth>
no priority whatsoever
<aw->
(in File (while (from "something") … (till "endstring"))) doesnt work
<Regenaxer>
yes, but you can do that with current 'till' too
<Regenaxer>
aw-, exactly what we discussed
<beneroth>
aw-, till wants a single character. a string is interpreted as a list of possible stop characters.
<Regenaxer>
beneroth, not a single char
<aw->
oh haha
<beneroth>
a single or a string of possible chars
<beneroth>
sorry for my wording
<Regenaxer>
it scans until *one* of the chars in the string is found
<Regenaxer>
yep
<beneroth>
aw-, (in File (while (from "something") .. (till " "))) would work.
<aw->
so what's the workaround?
<Regenaxer>
yes, you pass a string of delimiters
<beneroth>
afk
<Regenaxer>
I usually do till the next known delimiter
<aw->
what if my delimiter is #### ?
<Regenaxer>
and then 'match' or similar on the result
<aw->
the same character 4 times
<Regenaxer>
you do a loop
<Regenaxer>
till "#" and then 'peek' etc
<aw->
a loop inside the while loop?
<Regenaxer>
yes
<aw->
hmmm
<Regenaxer>
'till' is a bit unlucky here :)
<aw->
maybe i'd rather only use (from), and then once i have the entire string until eof, then i can split with "#" "#" ...