ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Picolisp latest found at http://www.software-lab.de/down.html | check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
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<m_mans> hi all!
<Regenaxer> Hi m_mans! Long time :)
<m_mans> oh, it seems my znc has been offline for 2 weeks :(
<Regenaxer> No problem, there is the log :)
<m_mans> ah, T
<m_mans> hehe
<cess11> Good morning.
<Regenaxer> Hi cess11
<m_mans> I've moved to 'core' team and have to use Python
<m_mans> what's up?
<Regenaxer> Yeah, you said last time
<Regenaxer> too bad!
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<Regenaxer> m_mans: So you have no more chances to program in Pil any more?
<m_mans> right now - yeah, I don't have. But who knows, what will be after a few monthes
<Regenaxer> indeed
<m_mans> I hope :)
<Regenaxer> :)
<aw-> hi all
<aw-> Python... sadness
<Regenaxer> Hi aw-!
<m_mans> Hi aw-!
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<aw-> m_mans: maybe you can write a pil<->python transpiler
<m_mans> :D
<Regenaxer> cool idea
<aw-> or, just write in pil and call exec("realcode.l") from your python code
<aw-> i will begin to tell people I work in Artificial Intelligence. It seems trendy nowadays
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<Regenaxer> And add "blockchain"
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<clacke[m]> aw- did you try hy?
<clacke[m]> I haven't looked at it at all, I hear it's a bit odd because it supports a lot of python syntax within the LISPy bits.
<aw-> what is it?
<clacke[m]> hy is a LISP-ish compiler for Python.
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<clacke[m]> You can write a mymodule.hy file, and if you first import hy, you can then simply import mymodule as you would any python module.
<clacke[m]> The importer transforms the parenthetical hy source code into a Python AST, which then the Python compiler compiles into bytecode.
<clacke[m]> The main draw is macros, I suppose.
<yunfan> clacke[m]: i'd tried hy
<yunfan> its interesting, but since it compiled to cpython, i dont see any useful
<aw-> it's its own language?
<aw-> oh... cpython
<aw-> hmmm
<aw-> i dont care about Python to begin with
<aw-> earlier i was just making a joke for m_mans
<aw-> people make such weird things
<aw-> "you have the whole beautiful world of Python at your fingertips, in Lisp form!"
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<freeemint> Regenaxer, Have you thought about my question?
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<Regenaxer> No
<Regenaxer> I did not even understand it
<Regenaxer> It seemed *very* general
<Regenaxer> afp
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<aw-> released some more Pil code
<aw-> it's only a fraction of what i've written for the full script, but it may be helpful for some: https://github.com/on-prem/console-gui
<aw-> bbiab
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<Regenaxer> ret
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<cilz> hello
<Regenaxer> Hi cilz
<cilz> is there any PL counterpart to (format t "hello ~a" "PL") found in CL?
<Regenaxer> There is a 'text' function
<Regenaxer> or just 'prinl'
<Regenaxer> What exactly is your plan?
<cilz> I'm teaching myself
<tankf33der> what is the task ?
<cilz> and was trying to figure out how to do that
<cilz> no task
<cilz> just for leraning
<Regenaxer> Usually just 'prinl' is fine: (prinl "hello " "PL")
<Regenaxer> 'text' uses place holders
<cilz> thanks
<Regenaxer> : (text "hello @1" "PL")
<Regenaxer> -> "hello PL"
<Regenaxer> So it does not print, just build the string
<cilz> ok
<cilz> hence need to use prinl afterwards?
<Regenaxer> CL's 'format' is very complex I think, there is nothing like that in pil
<Regenaxer> yes, if you need to
<cilz> counterpart formatting options of CL's 'format' was a question too, thanks
<Regenaxer> welcome :)
<cilz> will go back to PL docs
<Regenaxer> ok
<Regenaxer> In my experience, 'text' is mostly useful if the strings need to be translated and thus the order of words changes
<Regenaxer> For all other things just 'prin' or 'prinl' is fine
<Regenaxer> Mainly because you can pass as many args as you like
<cilz> how do you pass args too 'prin'?
<Regenaxer> (prin "foo" 123 (bar) " " (mumble)) ?
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<cilz> sorry stupid me!
<Regenaxer> Formatting can be done withe all kinds of functions, eg.
<Regenaxer> : (prinl "abc" (align 12 (* 3 4)))
<Regenaxer> abc 12
<cilz> on the repl
<cilz> (setq test "again")
<cilz> why (prin "hello" test) -> hellotest with no ""
<cilz> while (print "hello" test) -> "hello" "again" with ""?
<cilz> I mean (prin "hello" test) -> helloagain
<tankf33der> ... No space or newline is printed between individual items ...
<cilz> what's the difference between output with "" and without ""?
<Regenaxer> 'print', 'println' and 'prinsp' output Lisp data in the form accepted by (read)
<Regenaxer> 'prin' etc. generate "human" output
<aw-> also dont forget (tab)
<Regenaxer> : (println 123 "123")
<Regenaxer> 123 "123"
<Regenaxer> (prinl 123 "123") prints 123123
<Regenaxer> yes, (tab) is a useful formatting function
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<cilz> ok
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<cilz> am I wrong when I think that PL is a kind of "lisp1" like scheme rather than a "lisp2" like CL?
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<Regenaxer> Yes, this comes close
<Regenaxer> Though I do not care about the exact differences
<Regenaxer> In any case Pil precedes CL
<Regenaxer> I think the criteria was whether symbols may have a function definition AND a value at the same time (Lisp-2) or just one of them
<Regenaxer> PicoLisp makes no distinction between code and data, so there is no differentiation between functional and non-functional value
<beneroth> hi all
<Regenaxer> Hi beneroth
<beneroth> hi Regenaxer :)
<beneroth> welcome in the community, cilz :)
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<cilz> thanks for answering and welcoming
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<cess11> cilz: If you know CL or Scheme I think you'll be able to understand most picolisp solutions on Rosetta and in tankf33der 's repo without much hassle, both are great resources.
<beneroth> [off-topic] eclipse editor apparently has JS injection bugs: https://twitter.com/0x6D6172696F/status/972200014771642372?s=19
<cilz> cess11: I don't know scheme but I have some "classic" textbooks on CL and Rosetta Code is obviously the place to go...
<cess11> beneroth: Ouch.
<cess11> cilz: pil is much leaner and less clunky than CL, and less 'pure' than regular Scheme:s. The db is really, really nice to work with.
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<tankf33der> cilz: where you from?
<beneroth> and how did you find us? ^^ (asking for marketing reasons)
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<cilz> tankf33der, beneroth, you're so curious ;-)
<cilz> I'm from in the suburbs of Paris, FR
<cilz> I have registered to PL's mailing list in 2016
<cilz> though I've far from coding for nearly 1.5 year
<cilz> I'm resuming my interest for PL :)
<cilz> I came to PL because of its database and webframework right out of the box. but now I need to figure out how to master them...
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<cess11> cilz: About the same time I started using picolisp, then. My usual recommendation is to use pil instead of your regular shell for some time, it will go real fast.
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<cilz> cess11: are you suggesting to replace "fish" by "pil"? if so how am I supposed to do that?
<cess11> $ pil +
<cess11> :
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