00:38 <Joerg-Neo900> I hope you're using blind vias. Right? But then, how would what you just mentioned become a problem?

04:18 <Joerg-Neo900> https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg36374.html

10:37 <houkime> trying to avoid using blinds. It seems like it is possible to limit special vias to laser microvias.

10:41 <houkime> and laser microvias - to single-layer deep surface to GND.

10:43 <houkime> which is handy becaquse these can be produced from outside wihout a need for between-laminations processing.

10:51 <houkime> *well, maybe + vias-in-pad for sth

10:56 <houkime> it might be profitable to replace thermal vias with laser microvias and delete blind-drilled completely.

10:58 <houkime> because obviously if you need a large number of holes it is better to do it with laser than to drill mechanically and change drillbits and all that stuff.

11:00 <houkime> however i don't know for sure. Need to calculate.

11:06 <DocScrutinizer05> with a density like what we got on Neo900, I don't think we can bve picky about vias. And afaik laser microvias are more expensive than normal even blind or buried vias. Particularly when you need stacked microvias to jump between non-adjacent layers

11:07 <houkime> The density doesn that bad really.

11:07 <houkime> *doesn't sem that

11:07 <houkime> *seem

11:07 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway PCB houses seem to not honor any such "optimization". In fact they have calculation models that give a bonus to often used technologies and they don't care at al how many steps this involves since it's all automated anyway

11:11 <DocScrutinizer05> I've seen 10 pcieces of a PCB being *cheaper in total* that ONE piece of exactly same PCB. I've seen single layer more expensice than double layer more expansive than 4-layer. I've seen vias not getting calculated at all, no matter which type, as long as there are less than N of them per cm^2 (in average or not)

11:12 <DocScrutinizer05> like "1 piece: 760 EUR, take 10 and get them for 71EUR per unit"

11:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I gues the difference of 50EUR is getting rif of the surplus 9 since they can't make less than 10 anyway ;-P

11:15 <houkime> anyway, if the design can be completed without using blinds it is better this way. normal vias can be changed to blind effortlessly anytime if extra flexibility is needed.

11:16 <houkime> for now it doesn't really seem it is needed. Just a better ompmat routing and everything should be be ok

11:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd like to see us demonstrating mastering the needed skillset in proto_v2 already, *before* we go proto_v3 with FP515 that needs inpad capped blind vias no matter what

11:19 <DocScrutinizer05> mind you, prot_v2 *should* also test/evaluate the PCB and HW house