01:55 <houkime> plan for tomorrow - resize UPPER (actually tempted to just copypast edgecut of LOWER) so that it matches LOWER size-wize and LOWER can be mapped onto it with a transform. Make transforms from stl to UPPER and from LOWER to UPPER. Adjust all UPPER things that have a fixed place so that they follow stl.

01:57 <houkime> map a cam copy from LOWER to UPPER.

01:59 <houkime> And later connectors should also be mapped. Probably keyboard will be flexing more -_-x than -_-y so vertical connector is not really vulnerable to this in addition to providing some support to reduce flexing when placed partly in the keyboard area.

02:02 <houkime> do we need mounting holes on UPPER or it is purely connector-fixed?

02:04 <houkime> funny thing that this metal bar on the top surface of pcb can also have sth to do with providing additional stiffness -_-x axis.

18:29 <houkime> adjusted UPPER. Made finger openings. Made Made lower2upper transform.

19:23 <ravelo> houkime: really great to read about your achievements

19:35 <houkime> ravelo: thx. however any emerging problem can ruin all efforts.

19:36 <ravelo> Ok

19:36 <ravelo> :S

19:38 <ravelo> What are the main risks? Space restriction? Electrical layouting problems?

19:41 <houkime> yep, and it is worst when you didn't foresee it aforehead, like Joerg and Werner failed to foresee a usb colliding with connector which nulliified some work done and became a huge headache.

19:42 <houkime> because remaining space was not enogh to have a configuration even nerly as it was in docs

19:43 <houkime> (partly because of an sd card holder on the other side of BoB)

19:44 <houkime> and now I foresee huge troubles with sims.

19:45 <houkime> Basicaly both of them are more or less fixed in place by case or other reason

19:45 <Joerg-Neo900> no challenge no fame

19:46 <houkime> and you can't really even place esds on the one of them which is under the modem without moving the modem a bit.

19:53 <ravelo> Maybe time to simplify it, to reduce those risks?

19:54 <ravelo> As I already said, I don't like the all or nothing approach

19:56 <DocScrutinizer51> I don't like the Mit looks difficult so lets simplify it before even trying' approach

19:57 <DocScrutinizer51> the prototypes are menat to see what can be done, not to p.ay safe

19:58 <DocScrutinizer51> please rethink your definition of 'risk'

19:59 <ravelo> Ok

19:59 <ravelo> Risk: Invest a lot of time in layouting to find out in the end that it's not possible

20:00 <ravelo> Than doing refactoring and again find out it's not possible because of another restriction

20:01 <DocScrutinizer51> when tou don't want to invest work to achieve the best possible result, this project is clearly yoo risky for you

20:02 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry no glasses, this doesn't work anymore like it usd to. BBL

20:03 <ravelo> I always forget this is still a Prototype

20:04 <ravelo> So you might be right

20:05 <houkime> Planning ahead is what Im trying to do right now to not get caught in the corner. Even started a bit of a tool on that.

20:06 <houkime> and an issue board (besides publicity) is also a thing to help first of all ME to have all painspots in one accessible place in order not to forget anything.

21:02 <Joerg-Neo900> that's a very valid purpose

21:12 <Joerg-Neo900> ravelo: have you ever read the "Why you can't innovate like Apple"?

21:14 <Joerg-Neo900> https://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/resources/articles/you-cant-innovate-like-apple

21:52 <Joerg-Neo900> ravelo: btw when you do a large project, say a transcontinental street, then you first project and possibly even build the most difficult and risky parts like bridges and tunnels. You don't "Invest a lot of time in [asphalting] to find out in the end that it's not possible"

22:04 <Joerg-Neo900> basically: you first place components, you solve conflicts during that. Then you start layouting the assumed most difficult parts with a best guess of layers you'll need. Pretty soon you'll notice if it can work or if you need an additional layer, or two

22:05 <Joerg-Neo900> ince you placed all components, there's actually no way you can't layout this design, given you have sufficient layers available

22:05 <Joerg-Neo900> once*

22:06 <Joerg-Neo900> and since this is a prototype, it wouldn't matter if we need 20 layers just to get something running. Optimization can happen later