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<ryan25>
hi all, just came across the neo900 project after reading about my old trusty n900... is the project still moving forward? I'm unable to join the newsletter list...
<Joerg-Neo900>
the newsletter list is obsolete since we don't send out newsletters often, thanks to lack of manpower for writing them.
<Joerg-Neo900>
yes, recently great houkime resumed on layout
<Joerg-Neo900>
so, while not in best shape, the project isn't dead yet
<ryan25>
well I hope to see it come to fruition, it's a very cool project. is the issue more a lack of engineers or of funding? I'm fairly confident I'd purchase a circuit board to mod my device if I were able to
<Joerg-Neo900>
well, both
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<Joerg-Neo900>
we didn't reach the needed number of preorders which limited available funds severely, Same time it's pretty difficult to find engineers feeling confortable with using KiCad for such a project
<Joerg-Neo900>
then we had bad luck that caused some of the users in here to suspect that the project must be cursed
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<Joerg-Neo900>
ryan25: you noticed our "resources" tab?
<Joerg-Neo900>
and also see /topic
<Joerg-Neo900>
Werner's talk still prolly is the best info we ever produced
<Joerg-Neo900>
though our schematics are also nice, and the whitepapers as well
<ryan25>
cool, I will check it out. I have some electrical engineering experience (more than enough to make it through/understand schematics and whitepapers) but probably not enough expertise to be of any help
<ryan25>
has the block diagram in the 2015 talk pdf been updated or revised at all?
<ryan25>
nevermind, I see it in the resources
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<ryan25>
werner's talk is no longer available on youtube, just fyi. may I request that the twitter account send out major updates when they happen? I'll try to check in on the project every so often but I don't want to miss the opportunity to order a board once the project gets to that point
<Joerg-Neo900>
hmm, I'm not sure it ever was on youtube
<Joerg-Neo900>
twitter is defunct
<Joerg-Neo900>
for us at least
<Joerg-Neo900>
we probably will have fw if any NeoN boards for sale, we are limited to build to order
<Joerg-Neo900>
few*
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<Joerg-Neo900>
the business idea is that customers finance R&D and production
<Joerg-Neo900>
see >>[2018-04-09 Mon 06:58:47] <Joerg-Neo900> we didn't reach the needed number of preorders which limited available funds severely...<<
<ryan25>
right
<craftyguy>
i would love to pre-order, but having to do a bank wire transfer is hugely expensive (~10% of the order).
<Joerg-Neo900>
we're aware, it's a pita
<ryan25>
I guess I'm just hesitant to place a partial order now since I'm not in a financial position to be able to be down 400 euro without guarantee of delivery
<ryan25>
oh does it also need to be a bank wire transfer?
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<craftyguy>
it's not so much the total cost, but the fact I have to pay extra for dumbass banks to shuffle money around. I would have no problem paying order cost + 10% if it went to this project
<Joerg-Neo900>
PayPal gave us a hard time and we never managed to recover that service
<craftyguy>
yea paypal sucks too. maybe stripe?
<Joerg-Neo900>
we tried all known alternatives, none panned out
<Joerg-Neo900>
only thing lacking: automatic BTC payment processor
<craftyguy>
Joerg-Neo900: lacking from stripe?
<craftyguy>
or just in general
<Joerg-Neo900>
lacking from the list of tested alternative payment methods
<craftyguy>
ah, ok
<Joerg-Neo900>
I'd love to offer BTC payment, but only if it doesn't need manual processing
<Joerg-Neo900>
and works with German bank to transfer funds to there automatically once a week at least
<craftyguy>
what was the problem with stripe? I only ask because things like fosspay (https://github.com/SirCmpwn/fosspay) seem to have no problem using it
<craftyguy>
3% is a lot less than (at least) 10% for a wire transfer :)
<Joerg-Neo900>
well, we planned to start a kickstarter to drum up the missing preorders, once we have a proto_v2 to show off, and there I guess PP would be an option
<Joerg-Neo900>
oooh stripe, can't recall. Transferwise refused to accept us as payment receiving customers
<craftyguy>
just please don't go with kickstarter.com for that :P
<Joerg-Neo900>
two times, without further explanation
<craftyguy>
that's lame. anyways, I just chimed in because I really (really) want to give y'all money, but I really (really) don't want a good portion of it to go to someone else.
<ryan25>
has metacollin returned from his family emergency? hope all
<ryan25>
all's well...*
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<Joerg-Neo900>
alas no
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<ryan25>
oh no :( I hope they can return soon
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<houkime>
is BOB hel in place only by connectors or there's sth else?
<houkime>
*held
<houkime>
also, how accurately hb.pdf needs to be followed in terms of edge cut geometry?
<houkime>
currently there are small deviatons here and there like 0.1 mm, and it looks like the legacy N900 type of thing.
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<houkime>
looks like it needs to be strict. I will actually make two marks for usb OTG for future use.
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<houkime>
these BOB-lower interconnectors are huge and there are 2 of them. I'm not entirely sure it is possible to place them ok given that, for a second, there's a USB port very near on the LOWER but I will try.
<houkime>
metacollin did some layout in that region, not really sure what he was thinking about.
<Joerg-Neo900>
((is BOB hel in place only by connectors)) yes
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<Joerg-Neo900>
((how accurately hb.pdf)) very, for the position of connectors etc, outline/edgecut however is not strictly defined for BoB in N900
<Joerg-Neo900>
0.1mm is tolerable
<Joerg-Neo900>
yeah, the OTG pogopin halfbays in BoB are missing afaik
<Joerg-Neo900>
hackerbus was not a thing yet in proto_v1
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<houkime>
bob connector footprints don't fit into hb-specified 17 mm. They are 17.5
<houkime>
thereby they can't fit on bob as it is specified in hb.
<Joerg-Neo900>
hmm, in gb.pdf werner went to epic length about the footprints. I tend to assume he's right
<Joerg-Neo900>
hb.pdf
<Joerg-Neo900>
you basically just have to copy his fotprint design from hb.pdf to kicad
<Joerg-Neo900>
if *then* there's still a problem, then that's a real one
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<houkime>
well they technically fit if we omit courtyards and solder mask stuff.
<Joerg-Neo900>
can we do this, in this particular case?
<Joerg-Neo900>
I mean, solder stop at least shouldn't be an isse when PCB stops instead ;-D
<Joerg-Neo900>
issue*
<Joerg-Neo900>
for courtyards, what are the requirements? Depending on reflow process?
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<Joerg-Neo900>
told you we already used very minimal courtyards in our calculations and still have a density of iirc 70%
<Joerg-Neo900>
there will be challenges for sure. Possibly some stuff tirns out to be impossible all together
<houkime>
Courtyards themselves are mostly for pick-n-place (which cannot be 100% accurate) and repairmen to have some room. There are bad effects of the edge itself for a pad as I remember. Rechecking IPC.
<Joerg-Neo900>
in that case we will give schematics another spin, even product property specs
<Joerg-Neo900>
worst case it may turn out hackerbus isn't feasible - or any other feature
<Joerg-Neo900>
though we did our best to do a comprehensive feasibility check on schematics level also for placement and density etc
<houkime>
I don't think it will be needed even if clearance is a must. There's a little bit of flexibility in BOB geometry itself.
<Joerg-Neo900>
yes
<houkime>
at the end of the day, we produce the BOB, and it can be adjusted as long as the case supports it.
<Joerg-Neo900>
yes
<Joerg-Neo900>
apropos PnP, how are those damn B2B conns placed? do they have a suction cup cover?
<Joerg-Neo900>
or a flat area for that
<Joerg-Neo900>
or do they need sort of "tweezers" grabbing them sideways?
<Joerg-Neo900>
re reflow, I assume we will opt for VPS
<Joerg-Neo900>
should be better for the huge modem module anyway, also less hassle with shadowing in our very dense PCBA
<Joerg-Neo900>
a pity we didn't employ JTAG boundary scan
<Joerg-Neo900>
but somehow the design doesn't really lend itself to it
<Joerg-Neo900>
I might revisit OMAP3 B-S properties, and which pins we need exposed to attach the JTAG to
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