07:54 <antiatom> Ultimately, we need libre hardware review processes that involves datasheets, the DSP commandset documentation, & the masks to re-create all of the chips under a libre (preferably copyleft) license, fabrication plants distributed and near where you live (requires accessible, internationalised documentation of silicon extration from sand), and the public needs the ability to review the fabrication plants to ensure the fab is actually making what they

07:54 <antiatom> released mask design is.

07:54 <antiatom> Paraphrased from DocScrutinizer05 ^

07:56 <antiatom> Combine this with Fairphone-style sourcing of minerals to avoid materials sourced from mines with unethical working conditions.

13:14 <DocScrutinizer05> please don't quote me like that, I never said such stuff!

13:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I said that libre hardware basically means "write an open manual of life, the universe and everything and reboot the world"

13:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not suggesting such thing can get done

13:27 <DocScrutinizer05> on the contrary I think you always reach a point where you have to trust in other experts and their often "closed-source" expertise and knowledge when it comes to openness of hardware. How would you review the DNA of the tomatoes you buy? How would a libre documentation how to breed those tomatoes look like? which chip manuf you hope to find who has *comprehensive* manuals on how to produce their chips (*really* comprehensive - from

13:27 <DocScrutinizer05> steel used and how dig the ore and make steel from it, to lenses, to plastic knobs, to power plants for the electricity)

13:31 <DocScrutinizer05> when you eat out, do you ask the waiter for a complete detailed documentation not only how the meal was prepared and what ingredients where used, but also where those ingredients are from and how those who sold the ingredients grew them and what tools they used for that and who built those tools and how, using which other tools and resources to produce those tools, and so on ad infinitum?

13:34 <DocScrutinizer05> for me and for Neo900 that point of trusting into others is exactly where we use commonly and widely used well defined and documented (by their [supposed] properties) components which I assume behave as specified since there's zilch use in manufacturer trying to 'sneak in' anything, and other users before me for sure would have noticed when the component doesn't behave

13:38 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh I don't think that "libre hardware" approach can actually fly. And we don't do "libre hardware" in Neo900, we never promised that since it's impossible anyway, see above. What we do is providing hardware that has docs sufficient for the owners to fix and modify the device, explicitly NOT to build it themselves from sand and ore and solar energy (umm, would we need to document "how to make your own star and solar system" in such

13:38 <DocScrutinizer05> comprehensive libre world cookbook?)

13:41 <DocScrutinizer05> there's *allways* a point where you need to *trust* into prior 'knowledge' - after all who tells you that there's no nasty backdoor in atoms or quarks?

13:49 <Atommm> hi, will the wifichip support monitoring mode and package injection? or will you have to use the good old wifi dongle? :)

13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> I pretty much hope to get a WLAN module that supports both, it's pretty high up on requirements list for that subsystem, maybe even higher than 5GHz

13:51 <DocScrutinizer05> for the wg7351 I think it was warranted that we could do monitor and injection (and 5GHz), alas it's unclear if we can get that module

13:56 <Atommm> that would be amazing :)

13:57 <DocScrutinizer05> well, it's a natural part of the "feature completeness warranty" that say Neo900 can do all that N900 can do

13:57 <DocScrutinizer05> says*

13:59 <Atommm> didnt know N900 could du this. would have been an amazing phone if i known it earlier :)

13:59 <Atommm> **do

14:00 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87335

14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> funny we have antiatom and atommm as users here ;-)

14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> http://david.gnedt.eu/blog/wl1251/

14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> to me this pretty much sounds like wl1271 would run same drivers as wl1251

14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> >>many ports of missing features from wl12xx/wl1271 to current wl1251 (e.g. bluetooth coexistence, hardware filtering, multicast filtering, ...)<<

21:57 <gnutun> out of curiosity, did you guys order the first batch of mech parts yet? (-: