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<Oksana> About audio: will Neo900 be able to accept both OMTP and CTIA / AHJ ? And is there such a thing as five-conductor stereo-speakers stereo-microphone headset?
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<DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: yes :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> to AHJ/OMTP
<DocScrutinizer05> and no to 5pole plug. prolly can't get done, mechanically
<DocScrutinizer05> at least I never seen or heard of such thing
<Oksana> Okay... I have heard of 5-pole stereo microphone plug (something from Sony), but not of 5-pole stereo-microphone+stereo-speakers thing
<Oksana> 5-pole stereo-speakers+microphone (likely non-stereo microphone, but who knows): | 5-pole stereo microphone (no speakers):
<DocScrutinizer05> wow!
<DocScrutinizer05> a pity we can't find that fitting into N900 case :-(
<DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: thanks a lot for pointing me at that stuff - though alas we can't make use of it in Neo900
<Oksana> They probably have same length of plug, just more narrow rings. Haven't exactly checked, though
* DocScrutinizer05 checks...
<DocScrutinizer05> yup, that would be almost mission impossible to try and replace the N900 genuine AV jack component by anything else
* Oksana thinks that it will require complicated software, between 3-pole, 4-pole, and 5-pole plugs; microphones, speakers, microphone+speakers, and video out. Compatibility is important, and 5-pole thingies seem to not work in 4-pole devices.
<DocScrutinizer05> that too, though I guess I could manage that
<DocScrutinizer05> use BT speakers or a USB soundcard? when you need stereo-in *and* stereo-out concurrently
<Oksana> Probably /shrugs and wonders if this one is stereo-speakers+stereo-microphone /
<DocScrutinizer05> actually you also could turn the Neo900 into a USB-"soundcard" and attach it to a USB host. Idea being that it shows up as 2 input channels then which actually cary the stereo-out from your Neo900 to host. Make that 4 virtual channels and <you can have stereo-mic-out on USB as well
<DocScrutinizer05> Bone Conduction Glasses ??
<DocScrutinizer05> oooh about sound
<DocScrutinizer05> stereo mic doesn't make sense in that one
<DocScrutinizer05> it has bone mic for your voice only, in the pads sitting on your nose(-bone)
<DocScrutinizer05> *awesome* design¡ ;-P tres chic
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<timclassic> DocScrutinizer05: Similar to edwin's question above, have you had many people put in preorders that did *not* do the initial donation?
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<ravelo> DocScrutinizer05: is order for 1st batch over?
<DocScrutinizer05> not yet
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<ravelo> ok, just made some advertisement in the hp lx community
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<edwin> the deadline for comments on FCC's wifi changes is october 9 apparently, and their form has a drop-down that allows you to choose european countries. not sure if thats just an oversight or they actually accept comments from europe too
<edwin> there's also a draft doc with the cerowrt people's comments here:
<DocScrutinizer05> google docs my ass
<edwin> konqueror?
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<DocScrutinizer05> yup
<edwin> thats the export to odt link, not sure how long its valid
<DocScrutinizer05> §your browser not supported anymore"
<edwin> oh and EU got some plans too for june 2016
<edwin> "Member States shall not impede, for the aspects covered by this Directive, the making available on the market or putting into service of radio equipment covered by this Directive which is in conformity with the relevant Union harmonisation legislation applicable before 13 June 2016 and which was placed on the market before 13 June 2017."
<edwin> surely you'll sell some Neo900 before 2017 :)
<DocScrutinizer05> alas more than "some plans" - seems the law is already decided upon and just waiting to go active
<edwin> now question is where do I submit comments for the eu law
<DocScrutinizer05> EU commission?
<edwin> apparently its much easier to find out where to submit them for the US one (fcc) than for EU
<DocScrutinizer05> seems it's still too far to the future for anybody starting to moan and bitch loud enough so it is audible in the intarwebs
<DocScrutinizer05> once all the companies like AVM (Fritzbox) and Linksys and younameit notice what this actually means, they will cry very loud
<DocScrutinizer05> not that those companies had much of a problem with locking down their software - if only they *could*. Except for those companies with a dedicated community-driven software concept, they would happily lock their firmware but the chips available on the market more often than not simply don't support that
<DocScrutinizer05> which means those companies suddenly find 50% to 100% of their current and in-development product variants being outlawed
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what's RMS' and FSF's take on all that - suddenly they are in same boat with hw manufs
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<DocScrutinizer05> I guess this will be a shock for them to learn the hw manufs are way less evil than the legislative
<DocScrutinizer05> o.O
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<DocScrutinizer05> what the...
<DocScrutinizer05> what did I say? :-D
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<DocScrutinizer05> ooh at least edwin is back again
<Pali> stupidity...
<DocScrutinizer05> Pali: indeed, extreme stupidity, or rather incompetence paired with ignorance to the fact
<edwin> what did I miss?
<DocScrutinizer05> zilch
<Pali> edwin ^^^
<DocScrutinizer05> en passant: a huge thank you to whitequark for the awesome logger
<edwin> ah and you can also turn on join/leave messages on those logs neat
<edwin> don't worry I just closed the wrong window (the neo900 tab instead of pidgin which made znc part the channel too)
<edwin> it wasn't because of what you said
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> timclassic: (many who did NOT) well, I think almost a 100
<DocScrutinizer05> Neo900DOWN PAYMENT Neo900 complete device-187
<DocScrutinizer05> NeoNDOWN PAYMENT NeoN bare board-103
<DocScrutinizer05> +1EURDown Payment top up-8149
<ds2> is that the multimedia accelerated edition? :D
<Psykus> are replacement n9 keyboards easy to come by? was always my gripe with other keyboarded phones, they would wear out so easily
<ds2> NEON
<DocScrutinizer05> 243 of iirc 420 vouchers unused
<DocScrutinizer05> Psykus: N900 kbd? it consists of a keymat that evidently show wear&tear after 2 years of intensive usage (replacements available for ~ 15 bucks, but dwindling supply), and the domesheet with the clickdisks that usually works a lot longer (replacements available in numbers up to 5 per week, with 4 weeks lead time, from Nokia repair shops. 20 bucks) We will probably produce the latter ourselves for Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> ds2: NeoNinehundred
<DocScrutinizer05> the next boards will be Argon, Krypton, Xenon ;-)
<ds2> Radon!
<ds2> self destructing version
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't like Radon, we had a Radium chipset in ST-E, predecessor of the Thorium chipset forming NovaThor
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<DocScrutinizer05> I know Radon != Radium
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway they sound and act similar ;-)
<ds2> they both spontaneously break down
<DocScrutinizer05> "we" == ST-Ericsson where I worked a few years ago
<ds2> there are too many variations on ST....
<ds2> sounds like another snowball concoction
<DocScrutinizer05> Once Nokia planned to use Thorium, then they cancelled that which basically was the last stick thrown at ST-E's legs afaik
<DocScrutinizer05> I think this were the Radium series 7450 was the Thorium series. But can't recall details
<DocScrutinizer05> Nova application CPU + Thorium modem = NovaThor
<DocScrutinizer05> I learned a lot about modem internals in that time when I worked for ST-E
<ds2> including designing power supplies for them? :D
<DocScrutinizer05> no, why?
<ds2> the ones I have seen have icky requirements like handling 2-3A peaks
<DocScrutinizer05> I debugged the interfaces code
<DocScrutinizer05> all modems do
<DocScrutinizer05> that's why no phone works without battery inserted
<ds2> yes, hence the power supply "issues"
<DocScrutinizer05> for GSM the ERP is limited to 2W for handheld, I however don't know if that's average of the 1/8-dutycycle or the peak radiated power
<DocScrutinizer05> I *guess* it's average
<DocScrutinizer05> so
<DocScrutinizer05> ~2*8
<infobot> 16
<DocScrutinizer05> 16/0.8
<DocScrutinizer05> for TX efficiency
<DocScrutinizer05> ~16/0.8
<infobot> 20
<DocScrutinizer05> Watts peak
<DocScrutinizer05> let's see what's that in Ampere
<DocScrutinizer05> ~20/3.6
<infobot> 5.555555555556
<ds2> the RF front ends are 80% efficient?
<DocScrutinizer05> I'd hope they are a tad better nowadays
<ds2> do you know if the GSM/EDGE/etc modulations can use a class C or D final?
<DocScrutinizer05> err, class D on 2GHz is a tad... cumbersome
<ds2> 20GHz modulation...
<DocScrutinizer05> given that you want a ... yep exactly
<ds2> MESFETs/GaFETs :D
<DocScrutinizer05> honestly dunno
<DocScrutinizer05> chip design was ST-micro department, while I was working in the Ericsson SW department
<ds2> wow...the finals are on the same silicon?
<DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
<ds2> I thought the final PA would have to be a seperate chip
<DocScrutinizer05> I dunno, prolly PA resp FE is still a dedicated separate chip
<DocScrutinizer05> so yes, even in chip design department I wouldn't have learned about the end driver design
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<DocScrutinizer05> (audio fremantle) amixer scontrols:
<DocScrutinizer05> numid=65,iface=MIXER,name='Jack Function'
<DocScrutinizer05> ; type=ENUMERATED,access=rw------,values=1,items=6
<DocScrutinizer05> ; Item #0 'Off'
<DocScrutinizer05> ; Item #1 'Headphone'
<DocScrutinizer05> ; Item #2 'Headset'
<DocScrutinizer05> ; Item #3 'Mic'
<DocScrutinizer05> ; Item #4 'ECI Headset'
<DocScrutinizer05> ; Item #5 'TV-OUT'
<DocScrutinizer05> : values=0
<Wizzup> ECI?
* DocScrutinizer05 *finally* needs to get an ECI headset
<DocScrutinizer05> multibutton multimedia headset. Serial bidir singlewire protocol via mic line
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<norly> DocScrutinizer05: were EDI devices ever supported on N900?
<norly> i used to use a HS-45 with a different phone, and it worked quite well. i wouldn't mind actual *buttons* as an add-on to the touch-based n900...
<norly> though IIRC these headsets had batteries in them that weren't meant to ever be changed
<norly> built-in EOL
<norly> also, i had one module's left/right (can't remember which) audio channel die because i tried to use it on a blackberry, so i had to get another headset
<DocScrutinizer05> duh!
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<Oksana> 243 out of 420 vouchers unused? /Why?/ Should you send them a reminder to either use the voucher, or go to voucher marketplace with it?
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