DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 | 2013-11-04 - the day our fundraiser reached its goal | 2014-05-01 360 devices 75k€| 0712 183 ~30k | 0810 300 ~49k | 0914 346 ~56k
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<astr> any one can help with compiling kernel linux backports?
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<fingertips> astr: Help?
<fingertips> astr: For the most part it is ./configure , make
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<jonwil> Fingertips: Linux Kernel doesn't have configure
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<Humpelstilzchen> Linux kernel is obsolete anyway
<Humpelstilzchen> rumors say it will be replaced by systemd soon
<bencoh> :]
<kerio> [:
<DocScrutinizer05> ~systemd
<infobot> systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too. See http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced the linux kernel, or see http://boycottsystemd.org/, or see http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/
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<useretail> lol
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<Oksana> Good morning. Any news? Dome sheets, RAMs, anything else? My waking time was before 6 o'clock, and that's without any alarms, or loud sounds. :-) Yes, I have seen "Jolla tablet": the only interesting snapshot was the origami of a bird, I do not recall seeing anything similar. With 330 ppi (a tiny bit higher than 267 ppi of N900), who needs the giant screen of 7.85 inches? It would be very...
<Oksana> ...difficult to find wallpaper for it :-/
<Oksana> By the way, about "3.5mm audio jack": my N900 currently has green-rust in it, though I have never dropped it in water, splashed water onto it, or anything similar. Is it possible to somehow take it into account when choosing the 3.5mm connector for Neo900? http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/connectors-interconnects/barrel-audio-connectors/1443095
<SylvieLorxu> Why is the Neo900 so happy for Sailfish? Sailfish OS isn't even truly "Open Source". The UI is proprietary and so are system apps
<SylvieLorxu> They are merely using "Open Source" as a marketing scam
<DocScrutinizer05> happy for sailfish?
<SylvieLorxu> s/sailfish/Jolla/
<DocScrutinizer05> whatever
<DocScrutinizer05> well, we think it's still netter than most of tzhe other crap out there, right?
<DocScrutinizer05> better even
<SylvieLorxu> It's actually worse than Android
<SylvieLorxu> Their UI is proprietary
<SylvieLorxu> Android has some proprietary system apps and drivers
<SylvieLorxu> Sailfish has proprietary system apps, drivers and UI
<SylvieLorxu> (Android as in, how you get it in stores, not AOSP)
<DocScrutinizer05> well, that's actually not nice if it's correct
<jonwil> I for one have ZERO interest in Sailfish
<jonwil> or Jolla
<DocScrutinizer05> me neither
<jonwil> I only care about Fremantle-on-Neo900
<jonwil> and for that a good 80-90% of the drivers and device layer will be FOSS
<DocScrutinizer05> I nevertheless hope for the best regarding Jolla. Even when they are maybe wrong witht some parts, they may learn
<DocScrutinizer05> and I added "when it lives up to its promises" for a reason
<jonwil> Main closed source hardware bits will be the GPU drivers
<DocScrutinizer05> the *promises* are good
<SylvieLorxu> Yeah, good about that
<SylvieLorxu> Oh, they are
<SylvieLorxu> But they're already breaking them, unfortunately
<SylvieLorxu> The Neo900 at least clearly cares about users
<jonwil> And also some blobs for the camera
<jonwil> It will be one of only a few phones to have an open cellular stack on the AP side
<jonwil> in that the cellular services daemon replacement for the Neo900 will be FOSS
<SylvieLorxu> I personally care most about reliable kill switches for the mobile network
<SylvieLorxu> I don't even want a phone, really, but I at least don't want to be constantly tracked
<enyc> jonwil: i wonder what will help with multi-booting OSEs on the neo900! is there a way to make that 'convenient' I wonder =)
<bencoh> 'convenient' ?
<DocScrutinizer05> SylvieLorxu: that's what Neo900 gets you
<jonwil> Guessing some form of uboot will be used for the bootloader
<SylvieLorxu> DocScrutinizer05: Which is why the project interests me, even if I'll have to save up to be able to afford one...
<SylvieLorxu> It least I'm very glad you're doing the right thing
<SylvieLorxu> *At least
<enyc> bencoh: installable without having to write loads of manual uboot config files and prone to failing etc... some realsonably robutly scripted wwway to rebuild the equivalent of grub.cfg or so ;-) ?
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm happy to discuss wheter it's actually the right thing when somebody has any concerns
<jonwil> A big whack of the low-level hardware bits are already FOSS btw even on the N900
<SylvieLorxu> The "privacy enables terrorism" kind of "concerns"?
<jonwil> like MCE
<enyc> jonwil: or at least, a 'working example with decent instructions' to install the main usable choices of OS in a multiboot config
<DocScrutinizer05> our main design guidline is not economy but user requirements, whatever it takes
<bencoh> jonwil: the fact that we're just missing middleware is actually kinda sad :)
<jonwil> what middleware are we missing?
<bencoh> (not blaming anyone, I'm the first one not willing to rewrite those)
<DocScrutinizer05> SylvieLorxu: this kind of concerns is nonsense
<bencoh> jonwil: the "high-level" closed-stuff in current maemo
<DocScrutinizer05> terrorists are not THAT stupid
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<DocScrutinizer05> if privacy gets outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy
<SylvieLorxu> DocScrutinizer05: What do you mean? They're all planning bombings on Facebook ;) (I wish people didn't honestly think this)
<enyc> DocScrutinizer05: "then the terrorists really will have won" ??
<DocScrutinizer05> unlike guns, privacy isn't something you use for rogue purposes eventually when it is available.
<SylvieLorxu> Yup, I still close the bathroom blinds while showering as well, and not because I'm a terrorist :P
<bencoh> who knows, its behind closed doors ;p
<DocScrutinizer05> the concerns I'm willing to discuss are concerns about lack of privacy in Neo900
<SylvieLorxu> Ah, okay'
<SylvieLorxu> The only things I have read is the modem, but that has a kill switch? And the WiFi has something non-Free (God I'm tired), but that should be isolated anyway?
<bencoh> (which actually goes as far as one can while still using a cellphone)
<SylvieLorxu> All web traffic should be encrypted in the first place ^^"
<DocScrutinizer05> e.g. we canot realistically add mandatory encryption of voicecalls since that would defeat the purpose of the whole device
<SylvieLorxu> Yeah, fair enough
<DocScrutinizer05> we however can add an option for such encryption
<SylvieLorxu> Best you can do is, if RedPhone (https://whispersystems.org/) can run without Google Play, have that pre-installed in the Replicant thing or so
* SylvieLorxu nods
<SylvieLorxu> Opportunistic encryption is great
<DocScrutinizer05> there's a number of encryption solutions
<DocScrutinizer05> some very usable and simple to implement (ZRTP) but only feasible for VoIP, some very nifty (data over GSM codec) and even working via POTS but needing very special gear on both ends
<SylvieLorxu> Hmm...
<bencoh> (the last one is .... not that simple)
<bencoh> wow that's fun
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<DocScrutinizer05> we're prtty sure Neo900 would support a mere sw implementation of this thing
<SylvieLorxu> Hmm, I would tend to something RedPhone-like
<SylvieLorxu> Opportunistic encryption seems the way to go in a world where most others don't support encryption
<DocScrutinizer05> and the hw platform is on par regarding security and side channels or on-device-tapping, with the dongle
<bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: they dont say how they're carrying encrypted data in the voice channel
<bencoh> I wonder whether they actually have it running
<DocScrutinizer05> jackpair basically implements what you call "opportunistic" (on demand/availability?) ZRTP VoIP data over GSM codec
<bencoh> the "over gsm codec" part is bothering me ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> they do
<bencoh> (we had a discussion about that with ... modem I think)
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, and I pointed to a audio track showing the data-over-GSM
<DocScrutinizer05> and Neo900 can do all that this dongle does, without any additional gear
<DocScrutinizer05> simply an "app"
<bencoh> (I dunno why gsm is not on this graph)
<DocScrutinizer05> they don't claim excellent voice quality, and they even gave a bandwidth for data-over-GSM they can do
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<DocScrutinizer05> iirc
<DocScrutinizer05> and the sw is FOSS iirc, so a re-implementation on Neo900 should be pretty simple
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<DocScrutinizer05> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/620001568/jackpair-safeguard-your-phone-conversation#project_faq_99950 >>The other important reason is that, it's very difficult for software solutions to guarantee the security of the smart phone it's running on top of<< Neo900 we can guarantee the security of hw, and user is in full control of the sw
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<DocScrutinizer05> oops sorry
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<DocScrutinizer05> audio of data-over-GSM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh6yF79FkAA
<DocScrutinizer05> alas I can't find any claim that they disclose the sw source for review
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<DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: AMR is GSM
<bencoh> uh, right :]
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<DocScrutinizer05> you could do voice -> AMR-NB -> data-over-voice(GSM) "modem" -> AMR-NB -> air
<DocScrutinizer05> or you use another codec that can operate at the bandwidth your data-over-voice provides on a channel formed by AMR-NB at fullrate or halfrate
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