09:50 <sb0> rjo, do you know if the no-cloning theorem holds under the more complicated theories (QED, standard model etc.)?

09:51 <sb0> maybe there is a simple answer to this, but I don't see it discussed by QKD proponents

09:55 <sb0> they all seem to assume you can only do either measurements (not that anyone knows what that really means) or hamiltonian evolution

13:16 <rjo> sb0: you seem to ask these questions with a tone of fundamental doubt about the entire thing... ;)

13:17 <rjo> sb0: i would be careful to rank theories on a complicated-ness scale. QED (and in/with it the standard model) is not really a theory that is above or encompassing QM.

13:18 <rjo> sb0: but yes. afaik QED does not contradict/change/extend non-cloning.

13:20 <rjo> sb0: i would ask: why is non-cloning at QED energy scales interesting for QKD proponents?

13:21 <rjo> sb0: why do you have the impression that nobody knows what a measurement is? people certainly are happy to define what it is.

13:26 <rjo> sb0: this apparent distinction between hamiltonian, fully coherent, and "quantum" evolution and destructive, collapsing measurements that yield classical results is a very interesting and important one to understand. but it is not inconsistent or anything like that. it's somewhat similar to the distinct approaches in thermodynamics where you have the micro canonical, canonical, and grand canonical ensembles.

13:27 <rjo> they are all "canonical" in the full meanining of the term. but each chooses to describe different parts of "the world" at different levels of approximation/abstraction.

14:30 <sb0> rjo, some (e.g. id quantique) are touting unbreakable security based on non-cloning. though of course, their current systems are vulnerable to attacks that are much simpler than one involving QED or anything like that

14:32 <sb0> rjo, where does the randomness comes from then? the hamiltonian evolution is fully deterministic.

14:42 <rjo> sb0: yes. this question leads us to want to better understand wavefunction collapse using e.g. quantum decoherence or einselection or others.

14:42 <rjo> blah. kill a few filler words from that sentence...

20:53 <FelixVi2> rjo, can I ask a quick question about redpid?

20:53 <FelixVi2> test/cic.py is importing migen.genlib.cic

20:53 <FelixVi2> but it'

20:53 <FelixVi2> s not in any of the migen repos

20:54 <FelixVi2> at least as far as I can see - is there one that I missed which has the .genlib.cic file?

21:44 <rjo> flaviusb: sure

21:45 <rjo> migen.genlib.cic?

21:45 <rjo> do you have a link?

21:45 <rjo> this is the CIC: https://github.com/jordens/redpid/blob/master/gateware/cic.py i never completed it.

21:45 <rjo> and it is not used in redpid.

21:46 <rjo> yes. https://github.com/jordens/redpid/blob/master/test/cic.py and the actual cic.py need finishin.

21:47 <rjo> FelixVi2: it is incomplete but unused. do you need a cic?

21:47 <rjo> flaviusb: sorry, not you. bad tab complete.

23:47 <FelixVi2> rjo, I don't think I need one

23:48 <FelixVi2> I'll try redpid and was just looking over the tests

23:48 <FelixVi2> Is it in operating condition? I'm just starting out with the Red Pitaya